9 ms·
I love the polish, but credit where credit is due: „Poland is the largest beneficiary of EU funds 2014-2020, with one in four euro going to Poland“ https://ww
by niemandhier 6mo ago
I love the polish, but credit where credit is due:
„Poland is the largest beneficiary of EU funds 2014-2020, with one in four euro going to Poland“
https://www.gov.pl/web/funds-regional-policy/poland-at-the-forefront-of-eu-countries-in-terms-of-investing-european-funds2 https://www.gov.pl/web/funds-regional-policy/poland-at-the-f...
Update:
The comments below this are strange.
I ment: „Poland gets money, Poland transforms it into more money”.
Is Poland more efficient in it than other countries?
I do not know.
Would Poland have generated less money without it ? Probably?
Is an annual investment of the 2-3%of the GDP into a country a lot? I think so?
- tossandthrow 6mo agoYes, this is how European social welfare works. And it is fantastic! Because the entirety of the EU is benefitting from it. Polish people have larger spending power, interesting and safe places to visit, etc. This is not a "present" given to Poland. This is ensuring a better life for all Europeans.
- pavlov 6mo agoIn the 1980s, EU money was flowing to Spain, Portugal and Greece. And people complained about that too. But the result is inarguably positive. Those countries had only recently become democracies after decades of military dictatorships or otherwise unstable third-world style governments. Today they're the most dynamic economies in the EU in many respects, and their democracies are well established and functioning. The EU doesn't get nearly enough credit for how it transformed the continent. People have forgotten how nearly all European countries were in a very bad shape after WWII. Fascists had remained in power in Spain and Portugal. Soviets were orchestrating communist takeovers in countries like Italy. It's a small miracle that the liberal democratic economic order won so quickly and decisively.
- kspacewalk2 6mo agoI think this is the hidden reason why the American alt-right/far-right/MAGA/techbro types hate the EU with so much apoplectic rage. For all its problems, big-picture-like it actually works to gradually coalesce a huge rich continent with a bigger population than the US into something increasingly more coherent, and if it continues to work it will mean that the Western world now has two heavyweight leaders, not one. For people who tend to view the world as a giant zero-sum dominance competition, this is of course a big threat. One more big player = one more competitor. (The techbros hate it for a different, if related, reason - they aren't nearly as successful at capturing regulators, astroturfing and controlling discourse, and otherwise taking charge of that second entity as they are with the hapless US federal government).
- TitaRusell 6mo agoEurope is the birthplace of democracy, socialism, feminism and secularism. Ofcourse Christ conservatives hate it.
- Jensson 6mo agoAnd remember Christianity come from the middle east.
- kspacewalk2 6mo agoJesus would have foreseen the blockage of the Strait of Hormuz before launching a war of choice on the Persians.
- truthaboutpl 6mo agoGood thing we are a Democratic Republic :)
- pavlov 6mo agoAll non-monarchies in Europe are republics too. It’s by far the most common type of democracy. It’s unclear to me why some Americans insist on making a distinction that doesn’t exist.
- roenxi 6mo ago> (The techbros hate it for a different, if related, reason - they aren't nearly as successful at capturing regulators, astroturfing and controlling discourse, and otherwise taking charge of that second entity as they are with the hapless US federal government). I'd propose a different reason - the techbros disassociate with the EU because if someone want to work in tech that means getting fairly intimate with US culture, companies and markets. There is a reason this conversation is happening on a message board backed by a US company (moderated to US standards, I might add) - the Europeans don't have the ecosystem to sustain something similar. If Europe were capable of building the ecosystems needed to fielding a large number of competent tech companies then techbros would start turning up there too.
- eowln 6mo ago[flagged]
- dnnddidiej 6mo agoWhat... are you really belittling democracy
- eowln 6mo agoThat’s not what I said. I said there are more important things to increase the wellbeing of the citizens of a country than democracy. In other words, a country can use democracy as a tool to destroy itself.
- wussboy 6mo agoMaybe. But I don't think you will find any of those things without strong democracy.
- purpleflame1257 6mo agoCounterpoint: China from Deng and onwards is an autocracy with rapidly improving material conditions
- iknowstuff 6mo agoIts population will halve this century thanks to their autocratic policies so we’ll see how that unfolds
- tw1984 6mo agowhich things? care to be more specific?
- unmole 6mo agoSingapore says hi.
- TacticalCoder 6mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- flir 6mo agoI'm getting strong H. P. Lovecraft vibes here. Just so you know.
- pavlov 6mo agoI’m not interested in debating the anti-Islam diatribe. If your lived experience is that “bearded men and veiled women” have destroyed the halcyon paradise of your childhood, then that’s fundamentally a nostalgia-based emotional argument. But I’ll clarify that I wrote that Spain, Portugal and Greece specifically have become dynamic economies in the context of the EU. Spain has grown at a consistent 3% for a decade. Of course the far-right argues that it’s the wrong kind of growth because it’s fueled by immigration (backwards-looking political movements prefer zero growth and a shrinking population if it means less people of the color they don’t like).
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- indiangenz 6mo agoThe bearded men have increased the crime rates in Spain, France, UK, Germany, Sweden etc. This is crystal clear if you look up statistics. Just in the last week there was a Aloha Snack Bar stabbing in Barcelona. Poland has low crime rates specifically because they have strict border controls. You are free to personally visit Brussels to see what a shit hole it is.
- iknowstuff 6mo agoExactly how do you believe their borders are more strict given that they’re in Schengen? And how is the EU to blame for Belgium’s immigration policies but not Poland’s?
- logicchains 6mo ago>Today they're the most dynamic economies in the EU in many respects In what sense are they "dynamic economies"? Their GDP per capita has barely increased at all over the past two decades, they're mired in debt, and haven't produced a single new company that's significant on the global stage.
- emigre 6mo agoInditex, Mercadona, Movistar?...
- a_humean 6mo agoSpain is currently the fastest growing state in Europe, is the largest source new job creation in Europe, and is currently benefiting from its large scale investments in renewables and grid infrastructure sheltering it from the worst of the Iran war.
- nunobrito 6mo agoThat is incorrect for Portugal. We didn't took part on the WWII and came out with a rich country that kept growing on double-digits. Eventually it was attacked simultaneouly by the US/Russia proxies for 10 years until 1974. It was after that US/Russia sponsored this communist takeover of our country that the new puppet governments have thrown the natives into extreme misery until someone from the EU decided to reduce the levels of corruption and misery. We simply swapped one master for another and hasn't been good for our land. So please don't compare our country to whatever "solutions" brought by the same entities who caused our problems in the first place. We needed almost 50 years to remove socialism from this country and reduce the venezuelan/cuban style poverty forced upon us.
- myth_drannon 6mo agoSpain is often given as an example of a failed economy ruined by socialists. GDP per capita is basically flat over the last 2 decades, $30K. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/esp/spain/gdp-per-capita https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/esp/spa... vs Poland that tripled or let's say Israel that had the same GDP as Spain and now has double.
- the_why_of_y 6mo agoWhat happened in Spain is that they joined the Euro currency, and this caused a massive boom from 2001-2007 where GDP more than doubled in only 6 years. This was mostly fueled by capital transfers from other Eurozone countries, seeking higher returns than in their home country. Of course this rate of growth proved unsustainable: in 2008 the (Spanish) real estate bubble burst and this caused bank bail outs, massive unemployment (rates around 25%), and put an end to GDP growth for many years, exacerbated by the fact that Spain did no longer have its own currency to devalue in order to regain international competitiveness. At the time the bubble burst, government debt in Spain was at a bit more than 40% GDP, with a budget surplus, far lower than for example the "responsible" Germany at more than 60%. Now what does any of that have to do with "socialists"? If anything, it's a cautionary tale about badly designed currency zones and financial markets misallocating capital.
- Vaslo 6mo agoSo you’re taking from others who earned it and give it someone that didn’t? Got it.
- smallnix 6mo agoYes, in the EU they call it 'sharing'
- Vaslo 5mo agoOk, in the US we call this stealing. My bad.
- shimman 6mo agoThis is what capitalists literally do with workers. It's not like capitalists are creating anything valuable, they're just leeches extracting wealth. I rather have workers get the money than more corporate welfare.
- andsoitis 6mo ago> It's not like capitalists are creating anything valuable, Some capitalists create enormous value, some destroy it, some are essentially passive recipients of returns generated by others. Capitalists provide real productive functions like capital allocation, risk-bearing, founding, governance, monitoring, etc.
- shimman 6mo agoNo capitalists just provide money, something other entities can as well. Often better too. Capitalists are completely useless when they have no workers, so I don't understand your points outside of "wow capitalists require a lot of workers to exist." Hence the rush towards LLM systems, the dream of perpetual labor machine is too enticing. There is also no risks for capitalists, do we live on the same planet where the stated US economic policy isn't to socialize the risks and privatize the gains?
- CodeNest 6mo ago[dead]
- keiferski 6mo agoNow compare that number to this number: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_material_losses_during_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_material_losses_during_... And don’t forget the Partitions and The Deluge, too. Crazy how people just like to pretend that wealth acquired before 1950 somehow just appeared there naturally.
- ceejayoz 6mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_rising_tide_lifts_all_boats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_rising_tide_lifts_all_boats
- AtlasBarfed 6mo agoIt's a first line buffer state against Putin. Think of it as defense spending
- otterz 6mo agoBuffer implies it's void of meaningful content. An unfair word to describe an industrialized nation and member of the top 20 largest economies.
- po1nt 6mo agoIf there was a correlation you would see the same trend in Slovakia, Hungary and such
- realusername 6mo agoSlovakia growth wasn't doing too bad, for Hungary we know the reason why it's the poorest EU country, Orban stole everything.
- ahoka 6mo agoConservative estimates put the embezzled amount around 60,000,000,000 Euros. The upcoming government says it’s at least the double of this.
- riffraff 6mo agoWhich you do, except they're a lot smaller than Poland.
- wowoc 6mo agoThe article on AP literally has a graph showing outsized growth of Poland compared to these countries (measured in GDP per capita).
- toasty228 6mo ago"GDP measured in constant 2021 international dollars, adjusted for purchasing power parity (PPP) to account for differences in the cost of goods and services across countries" Meh, idk what magic maths they pull, but any other sources I find do not corroborate their graph. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/352708343/figure/fig1/AS:1038268934127616@1624554012037/The-evolution-of-the-GDP-per-capita-in-V4-countries-Bulgaria-and-Romania-1990-2019.png https://www.researchgate.net/publication/352708343/figure/fi... https://dimiter.eu/Visualizations_files/cee/gdppc_country.png https://dimiter.eu/Visualizations_files/cee/gdppc_country.pn...
- riffraff 6mo ago
- tryptophan 6mo agoThere are many countries in the EU that get many more funds per person than Poland and have much worse outcomes. Some moron always show up with the "but it was all the EU subsidies" talking point, which is quite frankly part of racist tropes of eastern Europeans being dumb and worse than westerners. Could you imagine them accomplishing anything on their own? That's ridiculous. It's us, the western saviors, who did this with our penny subsidies!
- another-dave 6mo ago> Some moron always show up with the "but it was all the EU subsides" talking point, which is quite frankly part of racist tropes of eastern Europeans being dumb and worse than westerners. Could you imagine them accomplishing anything on their own? That's ridiculous. It's us, the western saviors, who did this with our penny subsidies! Ireland were in a similar position for instance (received €40bn in EU subsidies in the first 45 years of membership; now a net contributor).
- hobofan 6mo agoI'm wondering how much of the net contribution comes from tech companies and how it compares to the loss of taxes due to Ireland acting as a tax haven for tech companies. EDIT: Net contributions seem to be $3bn/year (total, independent of tech) while loss for other EU countries due to corporate tax evasion is $6bn/year.
- toasty228 6mo agoidk who's racist but you didn't research this topic even 5 minutes on google apparently, you see the exact same trends everywhere, the GDP per capita rose pretty much in the same manner in Poland vs Slovakia, Hungary and Bulgaria for example. Of course these countries have 5-10m inhabitants so in term of raw GDP and industrial power they can't compete https://georank.org/economy/bulgaria/hungary https://georank.org/economy/bulgaria/hungary https://georank.org/economy/poland/slovakia https://georank.org/economy/poland/slovakia https://georank.org/economy/bulgaria/poland https://georank.org/economy/bulgaria/poland
- trwired 6mo ago
- -mlv 6mo agoThey're also the 3rd smallest net recipient of EU funds per capita: https://i.imgur.com/VlRkDMy.png https://i.imgur.com/VlRkDMy.png
- wowoc 6mo agoExactly. Which proves that people who keep saying that Poland's growth is only due to EU's money should finally stop. Another argument: Poland's GDP had already been growing at a similar pace before it joined the EU (but after it got rid of communism).
- luke5441 6mo agoThe largest EU benefit is that it makes democratic and rule of law backsliding unlikely. So if you invest money in Poland you can be reasonably sure that it won't get stolen from you. Hungary was a demonstration that this works over the long term.
- wowoc 6mo agoYet you can see crowds of young anti-woke Germans on X claiming that Poland's been growing only because of their (i.e. the Germans') money. Also, the reason you've given doesn't explain why it worked so much better for Poland than for Czechia, Slovakia and a few others.
- patcon 6mo ago> doesn't explain why it worked so much better for Poland than for Czechia, Slovakia and a few others. It's hard to see the other paths they could be on tho. One person's failure is another's raging success. It might be a bit like the way we take a peace for granted, because we can't internalize the cost of all the ways it could have been worse.
- yetihehe 6mo ago> Yet you can see crowds of young anti-woke Germans on X There are also crowds of young anti-woke Poles claiming that Poland should leave EU because we would be better without it and claiming that EU is puppet of Germany. I've also seen opinions that Israel is a puppet of Poland, aimed at Israelis. If you want to, you will see all opinions you could imagine.
- joenot443 6mo agoSince you seem to be implying causality here, I would assume that the other major beneficiaries have enjoyed a similar period of growth?
- William_BB 6mo agoThis is such a bad take. I'm impressed how often this gets parroted online. Next time, please check how many Poles left Poland for western EU since they joined.
- pkfz 6mo agoNo one can deny EU funds have helped, but putting credits only there is pure misinformation. Take a look at what part of GDP are EU funds and what is the size per capita. Hard work and open market were actually the biggest contributors to the development of Poland.
- wswin 6mo agoYou greatly overestimate its significance. The benefits are roughly 1% of the GDP. In 2023 Poland netted 8.2 bn€ [1]. The GDP was 751 bn€. [1] https://www.pap.pl/en/news/poland-largest-recipient-eu-funds-report-says https://www.pap.pl/en/news/poland-largest-recipient-eu-funds...
- etiennebausson 6mo agoYou are naming a year outside those he named, it might influence significantly the result.
- tgv 6mo ago1% of the GDP is a considerable amount of money. The GDP is not a country's profit, not even its revenue. If we stick to 2023, Poland had a budget deficit of 5% of the GDP, which makes 1% a very welcome gift.
- scotty79 6mo agoAt one point, don't remember when, the money sent back home by Polish immigrants was about 8% of Poland's GDP. So 1% is not that much.
- wslh 6mo agoCountries don't mechanically convert inputs into development. There are many examples of countries with large capital inflows and/or strong capabilities that still fail to become strong economies. Corruption is one of the major frictions that prevents those resources from translating into broad economic success.
- jillesvangurp 6mo agoThink of it as an investment. The rest of the EU also benefits from their hard work, and economic prosperity. Other countries in the EU have also enjoyed economic growth and support over the years. I'm old enough to remember internal borders with passport checks in Europe, before the wall fell and Poland was still on the other side of that. Nice to see them moving on from that. Thanks to the EU free movement of people, I've now studied, worked and lived in four different countries. I know people all over Europe. I currently live in Germany. Germany benefits a lot from the EU. Yes it costs money. But there's trade, access to skilled labour, etc. as well. And if you look at Poland, it's what sits between Germany and Belarus & Ukraine. So, there's a strategic relevance as well. Poland doing fine is good for everyone else in the EU.
- shevy-java 6mo agoThe question is not whether it is an investment or whether it is not. The question is whether growth is objective and fair or whether it is not. For comparison of wealth in Poland, ALL net-subsidies would have to be deducted, because this is essentially wealth taken from other countries, and distributed to poorer areas in the EU. I am not disputing that this leads to more growth; I am disputing the "country xyz is now rich" while not even mentioning the subsidies. And that reuters article does not mention that at all. It also has to be mentioned because the crazy bureaucrats in Brussels want to aggressively expand eastwards. They think that the richer areas in the EU need to pay for that expansion. I simply fail to agree with that "logic" at all and I also consider it hugely unfair to richer areas. The richer areas made good decisions; now this is being negated by bureaucrats in Brussels. That is unfair. (This is not meant against Poland, but against the constant expansionistic agenda from Brussels.)
- victorbjorklund 6mo agoHonestly, it’s not why their economy has grown. That money is just wasted on government projects? Has it hurt? No, but it is a small amount when it comes to the entire Polish economy.
- mark_sz 6mo agoBut be fair: Poland had to rebuild after WWII and 40+ years of communism. When Western countries got money via the Marshal Plan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan Poland had... "friendly" Soviets "supporting" their country for almost 44 years...
- yeahforsureman 6mo agoNot surprised to see "German" quotation marks in this petty complaint...
- LeonidasXIV 6mo agoPolish people have such a fear of Germans, thinking Germans are constantly scheming to screw Poland over. Whereas most Germans barely know Poland even exists. As someone who has lived in both countries its such a hilarious anxiety.
- i000 6mo agoIndeed hilarious considering my grandparent still remember being put into a german nazi concentration camp.
- 5upplied_demand 6mo ago> As someone who has lived in both countries its such a hilarious anxiety. What's hilarious about it? It seems pretty well-rooted given the actual history of the two areas. - 1939: Germany invaded in 1939, officially starting World War II. - 1941: Germany occupied the rest of Poland after attacking the Soviet Union, which had previously occupied Eastern Poland. - Teutonic Order/Prussia: Throughout the 13th–16th centuries, the Teutonic Order fought numerous wars against Poland. - Medieval Period: Records show invasions by Margrave Gero (963), Margrave Odo I (972), Emperor Otto II (979), and multiple campaigns by King Heinrich II between 1003 and 1017.
- inglor_cz 6mo agoGermans probably won't attack anyone anymore, that is true. But Germans making huge mistakes out of misguided idealism is still a problem. And given the size and influence of Germany, the rest of the continent has always to process those mistakes as well.
- goralph 6mo agoIt’s been barely two generations since the death camps. My grandma, who is still alive, can tell you stories of seeing trains take half her village away. Intergenerational trauma is a real psychological phenomenon. A „hilarious anxiety” is an incredibly naive world view.
- mensetmanusman 6mo agoIt's important to understand the difference between handouts and investments with an expected ROI. It's unfortunate that 0th order thinking jumps to this framing, it's one reason I always laugh when people talk about SpaceX taking 'government handouts' without these folks realizing the 100x ROI the government got out of their investment. All investments are 'hand outs' but not all 'hand outs' are investments. Clear thinking at a large enough scale will prevent a populace from self destructing due to stupidity about this topic.
- testing22321 6mo agoIn 2023 they got a measly 10% (8.2Billion) of the GM and Chrysler bailout that will never be repaid ($85Billion) The EU gets huge benefits for that investment, the CEO of GM gets a multi-milion dollar pay packet.
- surfmike 6mo agoSince one of the major donors is Germany, I also like to consider this as reparations for WWII. I wish people in Poland would realize more how generous the EU has been to them.
- truthaboutpl 6mo ago[flagged]
- self_awareness 6mo agoWell, Germany had their own EU funds when they raided other countries. Today, noone bats an eye? At least Poland does it legally.
- lifestyleguru 6mo ago> „Poland is the largest beneficiary of EU funds 2014-2020, with one in four euro going to Poland“ The lion share of this budget has been defrauded, fraud is only slightly less widespread than in Hungary. Piles of (only) documentation are produced by professionals then funds are funnelled to the families of local authorities. Honestly I'm confused, maybe that's indeed how EU funds are suppoused to work?
- seydor 6mo agoOh no, other countries have been in that position but it did not go well
- Detrytus 6mo ago[flagged]
- cromka 6mo ago> Polish economy grows despite EU membership, not because of it. LOL. Seriously, LOL. You think GDP growth would be HIGHER if not for the access to the common market? What the hell are you talking about? As a Pole, I see such statements as absolutely ridiculous, brain-dead.
- Detrytus 6mo agoCommon market is overrated, and the negative impact of EU-imposed taxes and stupid regulations is real. As I said: Polish GDP grew faster before joining EU. I would be first to vote "leave" if it ever comes to it.
- cromka 6mo ago> and the negative impact of EU-imposed taxes and stupid regulations is real WHAT TAXES? WHAT TAXES? And the impact of actual import taxes imposed by EU on Polish manufacturers would be what, imaginary? > As I said: Polish GDP grew faster before joining EU. It came from a much lower point that any other economy in the region. You'd better compare against Czech or Hungarian economies first, which started off much richer post 1990. So, how the fuck do you know it would continue to grow like it did had it not join the EU? Have you heard of logical fallacies? What an absolutely horrible take. Zero facts, just speculations and "trust me bro" hot-takes. Seriously, are you a bot? Because that's the kind of made up shit bots make nowadays to sway people towards right-wing libertarian parties.
- tiborsaas 6mo ago> I ment: „Poland gets money, Poland transforms it into more money”. It's not trivial that this works. In Hungary we messed this up big time, hopefully it can get fixed now.
- grey-area 6mo agoThe EU is working as intended then. Even without funds distributing EU cash, a common market works as a leveller this way and pulls up the poorer countries, because if you can live work and operate anywhere, people naturally pick the cheapest and easiest places to start a business serving the EU. Spain and Portugal were the previous beneficiaries and everyone benefits really as jobs are created everywhere. This is far better than a situation where larger economies dominate all others forever.
- rqalkj 6mo agoI don't understand the number of people here who repeat the official EU elites line. Would you say that The US and Mexico should be forced to implement free movement of people, goods, services and industry with a new North American Union capital in Mexico city? If not, what is the difference? Mind you that Polish workers are the next in line to be screwed if Ukraine joins the EU.
- pjc50 6mo agoNAFTA was pretty beneficial until people went nuts about it.
- wiseowise 6mo ago> Mind you that Polish workers are the next in line to be screwed if Ukraine joins the EU. So when German workers got screwed when Poland joined EU it was fine, but Poland is where you draw the line?
- grey-area 6mo agoWell not forced no, but if the people of both countries agreed to it, sure why not? Ever closer union is the official slogan of the EU, this is working as intended.
- jakubadamw 6mo agoIt’s a factor that’s not any more significant than the Marshall Plan was in your Wirtschaftswunder in the 1970s, which, oddly enough, a lot of Germans have no issue attributing to a domestic merit alone. Funny how that works! If it was the EU contributions that were the dominant force here, Germany could… simply do the same and prop up its own struggling economy with money printed by the ECB. Instead, it prefers to see it crumble under an obese welfare state that largely funds inactive third-world fake asylum seekers. So clearly, there’s way more nuance to economic success than simply having funds redirected from one account to another.
- 2958a-123 6mo agoBritain received more from the Marshall plan and did a little worse. The Marshall plan also did not involve the US having completely free access to Germany economically and move all their companies to Germany for cheaper wages. If you talk about asylum seekers (which may be a valid point), notice also that German social security institutions are filled to the brim with Eastern European claimants.
- jakubadamw 6mo ago> Notice also that German social security institutions are filled to the brim with Eastern European claimants. Utterly false: nationals of Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania account for approximately 4.9% of all SGB-II Leistungsberechtigte (~256,000 of 5.24 million as of December 2025). > The Marshall plan also did not involve the US having completely free access to Germany economically and move all their companies to Germany for cheaper wages. This is such a bizarre point. The openness of the common market goes both ways, you do realise that, right? For more than the first decade after the accession of the Central Eastern European countries to the EU, Western European countries saw an influx of workers that were well educated (or skilled in trade professions), which helped fill the gaps in their labour market. So if you were going to try to draw an analogy here, you’d also have to point out that the US didn’t import millions of Germans after the war into its own labour market. Well, barring some rocket scientists who had built weapons of mass destruction and death for Hitler. Anyway, yes, that’s how the common market works: companies can move operations to countries where labour is cheaper (in Poland), but other companies have encouraged labour to move where they already operate (in Germany). And what’s forgotten in this discussion is that the cohesion subsidies are in fact a form of compensation for the inherent imbalance that a pure common market would exhibit. That’s why it took years in negotiations for those poorer countries to decide under what terms they’re actually willing to open up their markets, and in many cases it’s been a very controversial issue.
- kevmo 6mo agoGovernment investment works. That's why America's billionaires are mostly just people stealing as much of it as they can.
- weezing 6mo agoPer capita tho it isn't the largest beneficiary. The funds were just well spent.
- Danox 6mo agoPoland had a relatively clear idea of what they wanted to do once the Russians were out unlike some of the other countries in the eastern block, and it didn’t hurt that some of their neighbors to the north Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia also had pretty good idea of what they wanted to do once they were out from under the Russians, it’s just too bad that the Ukraine when they had the brief chance, they didn’t take advantage of it hopefully they’ll get a second chance.
- DrBazza 6mo ago> „Poland is the largest beneficiary of EU funds 2014-2020, with one in four euro going to Poland“ https://www.gov.pl/web/funds-regional-policy/poland-at-the-f https://www.gov.pl/web/funds-regional-policy/poland-at-the-f... Update: The comments below this are strange. The comments are questioning what you wrote, which implies without evidence, that a small amount of EU money relative to Poland's own GDP, in just 6 years, is somehow entirely responsible for Poland's growth.
- postepowanieadm 6mo agoAnd 90 cents of every euro returning to the Old EU. Not to mention tax avoidance schemes, western companies transfer their profits out.
- cromka 6mo ago> I love the polish, but credit where credit is due > I ment: „Poland gets money, Poland transforms it into more money”. I have noticed that absolutely every time Poland's success is mentioned, someone from EU steps in to downplay it. A self-serving bias. Seriously, that type of comment is absolutely everywhere. Any YouTube video. Any Reddit post. In last couple days I have seen it about dozen times, last time today here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ArchitecturalRevival/comments/1t6k7f9/comment/oki42ep/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ArchitecturalRevival/comments/1t6k7... And each time it's some unsubstantiated remark, not once do those people actually bother to check what the actual amount of subsidies did Poland receive over the past 22 years, or how does Poland fare against other EU members. They always imply that ALL THIS SUCCESS is thanks to EU. For the record: Poland received in total about as much as its yearly budget is in 2026. Other recent EU members also received more-less the same or, per-capita, much more! Did you bother to see how other EU countries developed in that time? Growth-wise, since 1990, Poland's economy grew substantially each year (even before joining the EU in 2004) and is only behind China: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5Z8u1mWMAAHtUU?format=png&name=small https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5Z8u1mWMAAHtUU?format=png&name=... Seriously, look at that damn map. Find other EU members on that list. Ergo, Poland must be doing something EXCEPTIONAL if its combined growth FAR SURPASSES not only any other recent EU members but ALL BUT ONE country worldwide? It can't just be that relatively small amount of the EU money, or the EU membership itself, can it? So, for f*ks say, how about western EU shuts up and acknowledges IT'S NOT ALL THANKS TO THE EU, will it? I am personally a big fan of the EU, but those downplaying comments are so annoying I can't but think it's some sort of jealousy. Credit where credit is due to POLES themselves. You could just as well claim the growth is thanks to NATO membership because, if you look at Ukraine and Belaraus, it's quite plausible as well.
- ricardobayes 6mo agoBased on my limited experience, Polish are incredibly workaholic and work-focused people. It's really no surprise they elevate themselves economically.
- nickburns 6mo agoAnd intelligent, hence the Nazi stereotype.
- inglor_cz 6mo agoIt seems to be almost universally agreed across the former Soviet Bloc that Poland indeed used the EU funds more wisely than anyone else.
- vovavili 6mo agoThe Baltics and the Balkan states probably get just as many handouts as Poland, and still show lesser rate of economic growth.
- Saline9515 6mo agoInstitutions aside, Poland is well placed geographically to be a manufacturing hub for Germany and the rest of Europe. You can't do that in Baltics or the Balkans.
- odiroot 6mo agoDefinitely not the largest per capita though. There's a lot of people in Poland.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 6mo ago>credit where credit is due Eh, as an American I've spent many hours reading Europeans railing against the United States here on HN. Not once has a European ever given the US credit for the Marshall Plan. I actually look forward to seeing the EU become the global hegemon so they can learn about how much "fun" it is. The US can sit in the stands eating popcorn just like Switzerland.
- aldrich 6mo ago> Not once has a European ever given the US credit for the Marshall Plan. How can you honestly say that though. A blatant overgeneralization of a large group of people, but this has been a recurring theme on HN lately. So I would agree that people spouting anti-US sentiment have been conveniently downplaying, leaving out, or haven't been educating themselves on, this important part of US-European history, but what's new. In the meantime, streets have been named after Marshall, plaques and statues have been erected (including recent times) at least in the more Western parts of continential Europe where much of the Marshall Plan funds ended up, and its extreme importance is quite an ingrained part of WW2 school history education. Just as one example, Arnhem was largely rebuilt using these funds and has historically paid homage and still does today with such tributes and memorials.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 6mo ago>How can you honestly say that though. A blatant overgeneralization of a large group of people, but this has been a recurring theme on HN lately. Perhaps there is a miscommunication. What I meant to say is, I have not seen it mentioned a single time over many hours of arguing on HN about the US/Europe relationship. It's not an 'overgeneralization', simply an observation. >In the meantime, streets have been named after Marshall, plaques and statues have been erected (including recent times) at least in the more Western parts of continential Europe where much of the Marshall Plan funds ended up, and its extreme importance is quite an ingrained part of WW2 school history education. Just as one example, Arnhem was largely rebuilt using these funds and has historically paid homage and still does today with such tributes and memorials. That is nice to hear. But it doesn't seem to stop US-bashing from being the continent's trendiest hobby. I never saw a European say to another: "Hey now, they did do the Marshall Plan for us. Maybe the Yanks aren't always bad." The problem is that US establishment politicians have traditionally sold US foreign policy to voters as "a responsibility to uphold freedom and democracy" and so forth. Then Americans hear directly from the supposed beneficiaries of this "responsibility", and the sentiment is overwhelmingly negative. The American voter feels betrayed, and wants out of the arrangement. It contributes to (1) anti-establishment sentiment, and (2) isolationist sentiment. The condescending attitude of Europeans ("NATO is mainly to benefit US interests, you American fool", without being very specific about those interests aside from vague handwaving towards the Middle East, where most of us want less involvement anyhow) is not helping matters.
- nubg 6mo agoCue the butthurt Germans, decimating their own bread and butter industries by ridiculous policies like diesel and nuclear bans, immigration straight into the welfare state, then complaining that others - who did not commit economic suicide - fare better. Note that Germany vastly profits from the EU as well, as it allows Germany to push e.g. their established supermarkets into Eastern Europe, undercutting any competition. This is never mentioned when talking about "largest beneficiaries of EU funds"
- ltasdh 6mo agoWe have to distinguish between the German industry and corporations and the German people. The German people do not benefit from Aldi expanding into Poland.
- kakoni 6mo agoFinland has been an EU net contributor since 2001. Now it has among the highest unemployment rates in the EU and is going through austerity, while Poland is visibly building and converging. I understand the logic of cohesion funds, but from Finland it increasingly feels like: we cut, Poland builds.
- b0rsuk 6mo ago[dead]
- pzo 6mo agoMany (especially Germans) try to wrap it falsely as charity and throwing numbers without context. It is not true for the entire EU budget: the 2014–2020 MFF allowed up to €959.99bn in commitments, so Poland’s €77.6bn cohesion allocation was about 8.1% of the whole EU long-term budget. For context this is like 0.7% of yearly German overall public expenditure go to Poland. And this money per year is also like 5% of state budget spending. a big share of this money goes back to foreign companies in form of sales and contracts.
- julienreszka 6mo agoit's far from enough given they didn't pay reparation yet for wwii
- Byamarro 6mo agoThis is no charity, this money largerly comes back to the countries that are biggest spenders on these funds. It's basically an equivalent of FDI
- ihsw 6mo ago[dead]