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Soft launch of open-source code platform for government
- sam_lowry_ 5mo agoThere's not much here https://code.overheid.nl/explore/repos https://code.overheid.nl/explore/repos but good luck anyway.
- dewey 5mo agoI mean...it's a soft launch, not sure what you expect.
- sam_lowry_ 5mo agoIt's a public website, and it's advertised on HN, and after all the failures of the Dutch government to run independent IT infrastructure, we hoped for a better launch.
- dewey 5mo agoEveryone can post any website on HN, it's not like they have shared it widely and said that it's done. The website literally says "Soft Launch" in the title. > "For now, this is a pilot using Forgejo, an open-source, European, and sovereign alternative to GitHub and GitLab. Not all government organisations can use the platform yet. Developers are invited to contribute, with the aim of eventually growing it into a shared Git platform for government bodies."
- ramon156 5mo ago> after all the failures of the Dutch government to run independent IT infrastructure, name a few? the infra seems relatively stable. the only api ive used so far doesn't even have rate limiting, so i can queue ~10 requests at once and they all return fine.
- ivolimmen 5mo agoI am Dutch and I am glad they finally started to do some open sourcing. I have worked at different governmental bodies and have been promoting open source for some time now. But as a simple 'added hands for hire' I never got any response to my pleas. I guess it's typical Dutch that we are one of the last to do so.
- oever 5mo agoThe government still plans to place the authentication system of all Dutch citizens in USA hands. And interestingly, code.overheid.nl runs from a residential ip address.
- hvb2 5mo ago> The government still plans to place the authentication system of all Dutch citizens in USA hands. That's not a fair characterization. The company that runs it might be bought. That's not planning to put it in USA hands
- moi2388 5mo agoIt is a fair characterisation. They can access the data, as their data protection officer warned about, it hereby falls under US law, they have to give data when requested, and can shut it down at any time.
- embedding-shape 5mo agoNone of those things make "The government still plans to place the authentication system of all Dutch citizens in USA hands" a fair characterization, it doesn't seem to be true by any measures, the government has no such plans, unless you can point me to some public session/document that shows that this is actually the plan?
- oever 5mo agoTheir plan is to do nothing to stop the transfer of the system to a USA company. By doing nothing, they are making this happen.
- newsclues 5mo agoIs there a network or organization for the coordination of government open source projects? I love the idea of my city, region or nation (or planet) working to solve a problem and releasing the tool to the public. I just don't want every government to duplicate all the same work, some duplication and competition is fine. But the idea that different places have different specialities etc....
- jibbirish 5mo agoIn the Netherlands municipalities have been collaborating for years already to build an open source ecosystem: https://commonground.nl/ https://commonground.nl/ We have 342 municipalities, all buying the same apps (from 3 or 4 vendors) to deliver basic services to their citizens. Common Ground aims to replace all of those with open source solutions.
- ramon156 5mo agoHey, I would love to contribute to this project. Is there a list of repo's I can take a look at and contribute? I see some communities, seems like each community has their own setup, some of them have github links.
- jibbirish 5mo agoThe way they go about this is still a bit weird / government like. Individual municipalities write tenders for software companies to contribute to these projects. The Vereniging Nederlandse Gemeente is hosting the specific committees that are in charge of product vision / architecture. But I am not sure if there is a way for individuals to contribute to these projects right now. So the source is Open Source, the process very much not yet. If you are Dutch and looking to work on awesome gov-tech send me a DM.
- arionhardison 5mo ago[dead]
- steinwinde 5mo ago
- Frieren 5mo agoI hope it succeeds and helps to grow open software alternatives in Europe. We need technology to serve citizens instead of the other way around. We do not need European versions of big-tech because the resulting oligarchy will be as bad.
- robertlagrant 5mo agoUK government has a list[0] of over 17000 OSS projects it has created. [0] https://govbrowse.uk https://govbrowse.uk
- femtozer 5mo agoTIL CyberChef is developed by the UK gov
- saltmate 5mo agoGiven the URL contains GCHQ, it isn't really hidden.
- embedding-shape 5mo ago[dead]
- tomudding 5mo agoThe Dutch government has a similar list[0] though less extensive and does not (yet) include repos from the new platform [0] https://oss.developer.overheid.nl/repositories https://oss.developer.overheid.nl/repositories
- Mashimo 5mo ago> https://code.overheid.nl/RegelRecht/regelrecht https://code.overheid.nl/RegelRecht/regelrecht > Machine-readable Dutch law execution. regelrecht takes legal texts, encodes them as structured YAML, and runs them as deterministic decision logic. The engine takes a regulation and a set of inputs, evaluates the decision logic, and returns a result with a full explanation trail Can someone explain this to me? Not the technical aspect, but rather a user story or use case, maybe with example. I can't really wrap my head around it. Thanks in advanced.
- embedding-shape 5mo agoProbably better entry point is https://regelrecht.rijks.app/ https://regelrecht.rijks.app/ and you can see an example of the YAML and outputs here: https://editor.regelrecht.rijks.app/library/afstemmingsverordening_participatiewet_diemen/9 https://editor.regelrecht.rijks.app/library/afstemmingsveror... As for the use case, it seems to be an explorative exercise to see if something like that can help provide more transparency and consistency within systems of law, "whether machine-executable legislation can provide an answer" to complex and opaque cases. The websites linked earlier have more information + examples.
- fenykep 5mo agoI read (with much hope in my heart) it as: all the combined rent laws say that the max rent in X district is 5€/mo/sqm but you can charge 20€ for windowcleaning services and 1€/mo/sqm extra if the flat has an ikea bedframe and a bathtub. You enter the parameters of your rental agreement and the magic box spits out wether your situation is legal or not, then you just have to press a button to sue your landlord. Bringing the boring old legal system closer to smart contracts. But I don't have a clue if this is really the case.
- Bewelge 5mo agohttps://regelrecht.rijks.app/ https://regelrecht.rijks.app/ I think that's the project. "Modern calculation engine as a building block for the entire government. In collaboration with the Benefits Service (Dienst Toeslagen). Can we develop a general calculation engine for the government? This project explores how such a system could help in executing complex regulations for citizens and businesses, for example, when calculating benefits."
- maelito 5mo agoSame tech as Codeberg ?
- debarshri 5mo agoFunny enough, GitLab, has a dutch founder.
- sschueller 5mo agoGitlab has become quite hostile and I would not be surprise if they stop supporting their open source version. Even if you want to pay, the starting price is quite high and there is only one price now and for everything else you need to make a "deal" with them.
- jillesvangurp 5mo agoEnshittification is well on its way to being completed there.
- debarshri 5mo agoSomeones shit is someones money, yo!
- Tangurena2 5mo agoHmm. I work at a state government agency that uses GitLab. Should we be looking for a different source control supplier? I know we host it internally (our agency has a rather strict anti-cloud policy), and do pay some for support, so we might not be in the same situation as the clients/customers using the free version.
- ramon156 5mo agoMy current company also uses GitLab, but the amount of projects we have would be hard to migrate. I don't think we'll be moving anytime soon. Try running forgejo for your own projects, see what you think of it. Doing the research beforehand helps a ton for your DevOps team.
- sschueller 5mo agoBiggest blocker with forgejo is that currently it isn't possible to create "projects" or "subfolders" like in gitlab.
- souravroy78 5mo agoI'm not clear on the actual use case how can this be leveraged?
- embedding-shape 5mo agoIt's for publishing and developing open-source software, I guess that's how it'll be "leveraged"?
- alexfromapex 5mo agoThey're going to have to work on the i18n. It defaulted to English but the entire page except like 3 words are in some other language.
- QuantumNomad_ 5mo agoThey are running Forgejo. The text being Dutch on the main page of https://code.overheid.nl/ https://code.overheid.nl/ is probably either because they haven’t provided any translations for the text, or maybe they even put the Dutch version in the template itself directly instead of storing it in whatever DB table Forgejo normally uses for the text. I run a Forgejo instance too for my own use, but haven’t looked into how translation is set up as I haven’t had any need for changing any of the templates or texts that ship with Forgejo by default.
- Tepix 5mo ago> They're going to have to work on the i18n. You know, they could just use their own language. The link to forgejo even states: "code.overheid.nl (Dutch)"
- alexfromapex 5mo agoMost government sites, especially open-source ones that want international contributors, do a decent job at internationalization. It doesn't seem like much of a reach to have that working.
- rcbdev 5mo ago> Most government sites [...] do a decent job at internationalization This, I fear, is just a materially wrong statement.
- embedding-shape 5mo agoInteresting that they apparently deployed a development version of pre-release v16 of Forgejo, rather than the stable v15, wonder why that is? Don't get me wrong, I love bleeding-edge software as much as the next hacker, but seems wild for something like a central hub for publishing software.
- gib444 5mo agoThe Dutch have a very different approach to risk than many other cultures. Eg I was watching a TV programme about lots of works at the central railway station in Amsterdam and barely anyone was wearing a hard hat. In the UK that would be unheard of, especially on a TV programme And if something went wrong they would fully admit to them being wrong and fix it
- makeitcount 5mo agoRelated to governance, check this project (not mine), would be great to have more (thoughtful) feedback: Integral – A Federated, Post-Monetary, Cybernetic Cooperative Economic System https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47877819 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47877819
- embedding-shape 5mo agoDoesn't even seem to mention any prior art, there are tons of systems like that deployed and used today already, Decidim is one of them. Why do you keep trying to push someone else's project btw? Is it related to having a code platform meant for open-source in some way?
- makeitcount 5mo agoTBH, I'm not even closely versed in governance systems, but somehow would love to learn from this critical community. I'm open to variety of opinions backed by thorough thinking, and believe that we as a global society can and will go beyond "just" selfish interest prioritization, towards healthier balance for common good. PS.: The earlier we try to encourage exploration and wider discussion of alternatives to "capitalism-vs-socialism-vs-nationalism" dogmas, the faster we might get to a healthier global living environment, IMHO.
- embedding-shape 5mo ago> TBH, I'm not even closely versed in governance systems, So again, why keep spreading this project you aren't responsible for, and whose domain you aren't even familiar with?
- makeitcount 5mo agoSeems interesting. But i have a feeling that you are after something else. Why don't you take a better look and share if you have good ideas to add, not just brushing things off as "nothing to see here".
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- ramon156 5mo agoProud dutchie here! I was wondering this morning whether they were going to migrate away from GH. Really glad that they did. I remember applying for a job (at some weird company) to be put up as an open-source contributor for the dutch government last year. The idea was that I was going to build on top of MuleSoft stuff. They ghosted me a day later, despite me having already done these things for the client they needed me for. I would advise anyone that is looking for OS contributors to not out-source them through companies, as the models don't really align. Nowadays I'm communicating with people in Utrecht to get partijgedrag to a newer level (the current one is kind of weak). I would love to build some tooling on top of our government APIs, as well. I don't think people realize how much internal tooling is being built with the idea to release them to the public. It's really cool to see.
- brodo 5mo agoNLnet is also a great Dutch initiative. It's great to see that smaller, more nimble countries are leading the way in Open Source and digital independence.
- RyJones 5mo agoOne of the projects I work on, OWF, has great engagement with our open source efforts from Dutch companies and NGOs. https://openwallet.foundation/staff/ https://openwallet.foundation/staff/
- ramon156 5mo agoAwesome! Did not know this was a thing. Will check it out
- brnt 5mo ago> partijgedrag So happy to see they're ingesting voting data again! They stopped a few years ago (which is also a few elections), which I thought was such a shame. Knowing what representatives actually do, and not just promise, is really the only thing that matters.
- 5mo ago
- zkmon 5mo agoGithub, Java, Python, Whatsapp, Gmail, SWIFT, DNS, Cloud infra, Appstore, Playstore - all can become tools in the hands of powers.
- luplex 5mo agoIn Germany, we have the similar portal https://opencode.de https://opencode.de (no relation to the coding agent) It's built on Gitlab and does everything you need your git to do. They also provide hardened base container images at https://container.gov.de https://container.gov.de
- smrtfckrr 5mo agoThe day government moves away from proprietary software and extyernal services (especially cloud storage holy god) must come. I'll be here for it
- helsinkiandrew 5mo agoForgejo was discussed here last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42753523 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42753523 (269 comments)
- tgv 5mo agoSome cleaning up is probably required. I opened the "regelrecht" repo, and it contains a bunch of links and references to github.
- agentbc9000 5mo ago[dead]
- vldszn 5mo ago[dead]
- pcoyne 5mo agoIs it common for government to use open source software? Here even just trying to hire someone to manage that would be hard so you almost have to outsource
- theNailz 5mo agoDark mode is a straight up nightmare with dark purple text on a dark background.
- Gina020 5mo agoIt's being worked on, will be improved soon: https://code.overheid.nl/MinBZK/Codeplatform/issues/15 https://code.overheid.nl/MinBZK/Codeplatform/issues/15.
- brianwmunz 5mo agoThis is interesting. Reminds me of the W3C traceability work a few years back that I was briefly involved with... main focus was defining agreed upon vocab for interoperability across supply chains. Never thought of the same approach being used for public policy, but it's an interesting idea... politics is an area where clear communication and definition is important. That said, vocab tends to change way less than public policy does, so amendments and revisions seem like they'd be tough to manage?
- regexorcist 5mo agoGreat project, seems off to a good start with its first HN hug of death. Meanwhile GitHub greets me this morning with the banner "Don't worry if you have missing PRs at the moment, data isn't lost".
- _el1s7 5mo ago[dead]
- gib444 5mo agoIs that an identical blue to gov.uk ? ;) And also a very similar "was this page helpful?" It's ok, we like the Dutch lol We'll take the imitation as a form of flattery ;)
- thomasfl 5mo agoNext step is to use this for laws and legislations. Do you have a proposal for new law? Make a pull request!
- noisecancel 5mo ago[dead]
- sylware 5mo agoHopefully, they won't fall into the "Whatng cartel" web engine trap, and be clean classic web (noscript/basic (x)html) with lean web/network APIs. And that includes the SDK, namely the computer languages (excluding de facto ultra complex syntax languages like c++, microsoft rust, java, etc).
- miih0w 5mo agomost governments are still in the meeting about whether to OS their code // the Dutch shipped it and went home for dinner
- andai 5mo agoMaybe the government should be in charge of critical infrastructure. That seems like a very sensible idea to me. I think that also includes the operating system and the app distribution channels, though. Right now it's just a fiefdom. Not sure how that's solvable. There's no world government — for better or worse!
- ra 5mo agoMaybe governments should be in charge of their own critical infra; I'm happy with as much non-government controlled software as possible.
- andsoitis 5mo agoDoes this mean they’ve removed their repos from GitHub?
- arjunthazhath 5mo agoIts pretty hard to build and provide a service or product to government. The adoption rates are low imo!
- evereverever 5mo agoFantastic! I remember MECC was a big part of my childhood. That was a private/public company that made educational software. Most known for Oregon Trail, but they did a LOT of software for many types of computers. Eventually capitalism caught up with it and it was bought out, pieced out, and destroyed.
- Holardyeji 5mo ago[dead]