4 ms·

Yeah, but, just objectively speaking, look at how many _more_ business lines and units and actual PRODUCTS each of those other companies ship in comparison. Me

Yeah, but, just objectively speaking, look at how many _more_ business lines and units and actual PRODUCTS each of those other companies ship in comparison. Meta has... Facebook. Instagram. Threads, if you want to count it. What'sApp. The ad-tech that powers those things. A black hole of a VR division that has since been eviscerated after billions burned. An AR/device divison that sells glasses. And a burgeoning supernova of an AI division, just one singular hire of which is responsible for $1.5B in pay (over 6 years). Google/Alphabet has........ an entire consumer hardware family ranging from cameras to doorbells to smart displays to streamers, YouTube, YouTubeTV, Android, Chrome, Google itself, Gemini, GCP, Waymo, GoogleFi, Google Fiber, Ads, Infra/Analytics, Maps, dozens of other apps... on and on. Microsoft has Azure, Windows, Office (each of which are obviously _suites_ of more complex software), Xbox, LinkedIn, Dynamics, Surface, etc. If anything, Apple _might_ be a slightly closer analog to Meta in that they're just a bit more limited, but their hardware engineering side is obviously a massive part of that, supply chain, software, MacOS, iOS, all of their adjacent first-party apps, App Store, iCloud, AppleTV, retail... Meta just... isn't in the same league in terms of pure surface area. Mark just leaned extremely hard into acquiring as much nascent talent as possible and hoped he'd have the use cases to make it make sense but was content to spend the money in the meantime on looking busy. Now that CapEx has to go to compute/DCs/GWs for their AI which... kind of no one wants? But he's going to bet as much of the company as possible to stay relevant and try to be a player in the space. He's just doing it in this tail-wagging-the-dog hyper-overpay-individual-researchers approach that, from the outside at least, seems extremely risky...

snitty 6mo ago
Apple also has an entire international retail arm.
- pembrook 6mo ago
  And an entire desktop OS and desktop software suite in pretty much all categories to compete with Microsoft. Also their hardware business is roughly 50-100X the size of Google's hardware business in scale and distribution. The headcount analog for Google is Apple. And if you subtract out the retail employees Apple looks surprisingly efficient, having much less non-retail staff than Google (although both heavily use contractors). Meta on the other hand...is pretty much the definition of bloat.
  - jballanc 6mo ago
    It's been more than a few years since I worked at Apple, but they were always unique in the tech space in that their retail division dwarfed headcount. If I recall correctly all of OS X Lion was produced by around 3,000 engineers (and probably less, since I think that count included iLife and iWork).
    - bee_rider 6mo ago
      Aren’t they sort of unique in that they… have a retail division, as a real ongoing thing (I’m sure MS tried an MS store but I’ve never seen one). Well, unique other than Amazon I guess.
  - BeetleB 6mo ago
    > And an entire desktop OS and desktop software suite in pretty much all categories to compete with Microsoft. Not even close, if you include Office and Mail/Outlook. And if you include corporate clients, Apple is just not on the map. I've gone from a Windows first company to an Apple first company, and it's a night and day difference when you see how well integrated things were for Windows. I mean, individually you can say Teams sucks (terrible, really). And Outlook sucks as a consumer. But the way you can get all these things working with Office was very convenient.
Rapzid 6mo ago
Totally. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that if I had to pick a FAANG to put all my retirement savings into Meta would absolutely not be my pick. Heck, if I was forced to either short or invest Meta with all my retirement savings now betting on it's value in 25 years.. I'd short it.
- dron57 6mo ago
  Meta is going to have higher ads revenue than Google this year.
  - torginus 6mo ago
    Social media is an extremely competitive landscape, with competitors rising overnight. Google, Apple and Microsoft dominate the world with their products and platforms. Facebook & WhatsApp certainly doesnt.
    - John23832 6mo ago
      > Social media is an extremely competitive landscape, with competitors rising overnight. This is not true at all. There are two players. FB/Instagram and TikTok. Using one does not preclude using the other. Other than tiktok, who was the last new player in social? > Google, Apple and Microsoft dominate the world with their products and platforms. Facebook & WhatsApp certainly doesnt. Whole countries literally run on WhatsApp.
      - torginus 6mo ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_popular_social_platforms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_popular_social_pl... There are all kinds of social media, its segmented by userbase, and culture/geography. Telegram has 1B users (which is surprising to me, I thought it was an ex-Soviet thing), and there are entire geographic strongholds, such as Russia and China. Russia and China still use iPhones and Windows, but entirely skipped out on Facebook and Whatsapp.
doublerabbit 6mo ago
Meta has Facebook which was OG enough. MySpace was the real movement although you could argue LiveJournal was before that. Instagram was bought, WhatsApp was too. So really all Meta has is Facebook, everything else has been synergy. Apple / Google and as I hate to admit are innovators of the modern tech world. While they've bought their fair-share they still produce and create and have existed prior 00's. Two devices dominate the market and it's not going to change any time soon. You either use iOS or Google. Urgh, this is how the world has become. Windows or Linux, X or Y; why did Z have to die.
- squiffsquiff 6mo ago
  By this logic you should factor that android was an acquisition, as were YouTube, doubleclick, deepmind and Waze
  - doublerabbit 6mo ago
    I forgot about that. Back to the drawing board.
- ekropotin 6mo ago
  Apple innovate in hardware. What Google innovated during the last decade?
  - moosedev 6mo ago
    Apart from the Transformer architecture that enabled the AI boom/singularity/civilization-reshaping-event/whatever-this-is? Not much, I guess...
akdev1l 6mo ago
I am convinced Mark Zuckerberg does more harm than good for Facebook like literally they lucked out on the landing the business model early but it feels it has been in an ongoing decline and everything else they have tried has failed spectacularly (and particularly things Mark has put his whole weight behind) They never became anything more than the ad company
- flir 6mo ago
  The transition to mobile-first was a good call. Probably the last good call though. Oh, and buying Instagram.
  - lotsofpulp 6mo ago
    And whatsapp.
  - stingraycharles 6mo ago
    And WhatsApp. And the VR glasses seem to be a success.
- Spooky23 6mo ago
  I think it’s hard to not have any kind of boss. There’s nobody to provide the critique needed to improve the products.
  - dpc050505 6mo ago
    Everyone has clients and if your employees aren't incompetent sycophants they can give you actionable feedback.
    - SturgeonsLaw 6mo ago
      Not a commentary on Zuck specifically, but many powerful people with fragile egos build an inner circle of incompetent sycophants
slashdave 6mo ago
> Apple _might_ be a slightly closer analog to Meta in that they're just a bit more limited Seriously? Walk outside and see what people are holding in their hand.

snitty 6mo ago

Apple also has an entire international retail arm.

pembrook 6mo ago
And an entire desktop OS and desktop software suite in pretty much all categories to compete with Microsoft. Also their hardware business is roughly 50-100X the size of Google's hardware business in scale and distribution. The headcount analog for Google is Apple. And if you subtract out the retail employees Apple looks surprisingly efficient, having much less non-retail staff than Google (although both heavily use contractors). Meta on the other hand...is pretty much the definition of bloat.
- jballanc 6mo ago
  It's been more than a few years since I worked at Apple, but they were always unique in the tech space in that their retail division dwarfed headcount. If I recall correctly all of OS X Lion was produced by around 3,000 engineers (and probably less, since I think that count included iLife and iWork).
  - bee_rider 6mo ago
    Aren’t they sort of unique in that they… have a retail division, as a real ongoing thing (I’m sure MS tried an MS store but I’ve never seen one). Well, unique other than Amazon I guess.
- BeetleB 6mo ago
  > And an entire desktop OS and desktop software suite in pretty much all categories to compete with Microsoft. Not even close, if you include Office and Mail/Outlook. And if you include corporate clients, Apple is just not on the map. I've gone from a Windows first company to an Apple first company, and it's a night and day difference when you see how well integrated things were for Windows. I mean, individually you can say Teams sucks (terrible, really). And Outlook sucks as a consumer. But the way you can get all these things working with Office was very convenient.

Rapzid 6mo ago

Totally. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that if I had to pick a FAANG to put all my retirement savings into Meta would absolutely not be my pick. Heck, if I was forced to either short or invest Meta with all my retirement savings now betting on it's value in 25 years.. I'd short it.

dron57 6mo ago
Meta is going to have higher ads revenue than Google this year.
- torginus 6mo ago
  Social media is an extremely competitive landscape, with competitors rising overnight. Google, Apple and Microsoft dominate the world with their products and platforms. Facebook & WhatsApp certainly doesnt.
  - John23832 6mo ago
    > Social media is an extremely competitive landscape, with competitors rising overnight. This is not true at all. There are two players. FB/Instagram and TikTok. Using one does not preclude using the other. Other than tiktok, who was the last new player in social? > Google, Apple and Microsoft dominate the world with their products and platforms. Facebook & WhatsApp certainly doesnt. Whole countries literally run on WhatsApp.
    - torginus 6mo ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_popular_social_platforms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_popular_social_pl... There are all kinds of social media, its segmented by userbase, and culture/geography. Telegram has 1B users (which is surprising to me, I thought it was an ex-Soviet thing), and there are entire geographic strongholds, such as Russia and China. Russia and China still use iPhones and Windows, but entirely skipped out on Facebook and Whatsapp.

doublerabbit 6mo ago

Meta has Facebook which was OG enough. MySpace was the real movement although you could argue LiveJournal was before that. Instagram was bought, WhatsApp was too. So really all Meta has is Facebook, everything else has been synergy. Apple / Google and as I hate to admit are innovators of the modern tech world. While they've bought their fair-share they still produce and create and have existed prior 00's. Two devices dominate the market and it's not going to change any time soon. You either use iOS or Google. Urgh, this is how the world has become. Windows or Linux, X or Y; why did Z have to die.

squiffsquiff 6mo ago
By this logic you should factor that android was an acquisition, as were YouTube, doubleclick, deepmind and Waze
- doublerabbit 6mo ago
  I forgot about that. Back to the drawing board.
ekropotin 6mo ago
Apple innovate in hardware. What Google innovated during the last decade?
- moosedev 6mo ago
  Apart from the Transformer architecture that enabled the AI boom/singularity/civilization-reshaping-event/whatever-this-is? Not much, I guess...

akdev1l 6mo ago

I am convinced Mark Zuckerberg does more harm than good for Facebook like literally they lucked out on the landing the business model early but it feels it has been in an ongoing decline and everything else they have tried has failed spectacularly (and particularly things Mark has put his whole weight behind) They never became anything more than the ad company

flir 6mo ago
The transition to mobile-first was a good call. Probably the last good call though. Oh, and buying Instagram.
- lotsofpulp 6mo ago
  And whatsapp.
- stingraycharles 6mo ago
  And WhatsApp. And the VR glasses seem to be a success.
Spooky23 6mo ago
I think it’s hard to not have any kind of boss. There’s nobody to provide the critique needed to improve the products.
- dpc050505 6mo ago
  Everyone has clients and if your employees aren't incompetent sycophants they can give you actionable feedback.
  - SturgeonsLaw 6mo ago
    Not a commentary on Zuck specifically, but many powerful people with fragile egos build an inner circle of incompetent sycophants

slashdave 6mo ago

> Apple _might_ be a slightly closer analog to Meta in that they're just a bit more limited Seriously? Walk outside and see what people are holding in their hand.