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Used La Marzocco machines are coveted by cafe owners and collectors
https://archive.ph/afj75 https://archive.ph/afj75
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- testfrequency 6mo agoIf only hip cafes that get custom built ones knew how to pull an actual espresso shot. New rule should be La Marzocco judges every barista on their skills before being able to flip a paddle, which requires a bespoke NFC card linked to their certification. Yes I’m salty about the amount of aesthetic cafes that have no idea what to do about their coffee program because all they care about is being a hip third space.
- voxadam 6mo agoUnless your plan is to eliminate La Marzocco machines from the secondary market by rapidly buying up the old machines, at a substantial premium, and leasing all future machines I'm pretty sure you'd run into difficulty implementing any sort of mandatory certification requirement.
- richwater 6mo agoAs unfeasible as the original post is, I do empathize. There is a trend of expensive coffee places spending all this money on everything but training the actual employees.
- ahoka 6mo agoAll that effort to serve lemon juice. Sigh...
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- mashygpig 6mo agoIn my anecdotal experience of reacting to “wow this espresso is good” it’s often been a Slayer machine. It’s been a rough indicator of where to get good coffee for me.
- porphyra 6mo agoLa Marzocco has such brand recognition that a lot of newbie coffee shops would buy one, but people who buy a more niche commercial machine like a Slayer or a Synesso probably know what they are doing. Still, there's nothing wrong with the machine itself and there are plenty of really great coffee shops with a La Marzocco.
- mashygpig 6mo agoTotally, I meant no shade to LaMarzocco. They’re some of my favorite looking machines too :)
- jfindley 6mo agoI tend to look at the grinder and also the choice of the beans (roast level, consistency, chips). As another commenter pointed out you do occasionally get places that will buy a super fancy machine but have no idea what to do with it. It's rarer to spend loads on a fancy grinder if you don't know what you're doing.
- mashygpig 6mo ago100%, I just don’t have an eye yet for commercial grinders :)
- skhameneh 6mo agoOne coffee shop near me (since closed) had a Group 3 Slayer paired with a Super Jolly (but they also didn't know how to pull a decent shot). For those unfamiliar, Slayer is (imo the best) one of the top $$$ machines and pairing it with a budget grinder is a classic sign the owner doesn't know a thing about coffee. Often the grinder is more influential than the espresso machine. And how I mention "Group 3" that means it has three brewing heads. They were using a ~$20-30k espresso machine paired with a run of the mill budget grinder.
- wiradikusuma 6mo agoBoy different world different meaning of "expensive." I'm opening a cafe in Jakarta and I'm thinking if I should get a used Super Jolly or something _cheaper_.
- stephen_g 6mo agoThe Super Jolly is fine, I have a used one at home that I’ve had for 15 years (which I use now with a Linea Mini that I just a couple of months ago) and get really good results. The point is that investing in such a crazy expensive machine but not a much better grinder is really foolish, because the machine is going to be limited by the grinder so they may as well buy a machine that is 1/3 the price. But really it sounds like 80% of the problem in the case tow OP is talking about still would have been the poor skills of the baristas, because they should still be able to pull very decent shots even with the mid-range grinder.
- skhameneh 6mo agoI was a bit confused, because I've only known of the old models. Apparently there's been a refresh and they're no longer a few hundred dollars. FWIW they were not using one of the new models, they were using an old model which would have been maybe a few hundred on the used market at the time. It's kinda wild to look and see even the old models listing for double the price they used to.
- bch 6mo ago> For those unfamiliar, Slayer is (imo the best) one of the top $$$ machines and pairing it with a budget grinder is a classic sign the owner doesn't know a thing about coffee. The exception to that rule is Espresso Vivace in Seattle, with (at Capitol Hill location) a couple 3-group La Marzoccos at the bar and a collection of modded Niche Zeros on grinding duty. Nobody can accuse David Schomer[0] of "not knowing a thing about coffee". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Schomer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Schomer
- lostlogin 6mo ago> New rule should be La Marzocco judges every barista on their skills before being able to flip a paddle, which requires a bespoke NFC card linked to their certification. The same La Marzocco that puts fake paddles on their cheaper machines when whats there is really just a button?
- jasonjei 6mo agoI love my La Marzocco Linea Micra. It’s exceptionally well-built and feels like an Apple product in its simplicity. The only downside is the app you have to use to use the programmed automated backflush. But the user experience is remarkably simple. Turn the knob left to start the flow of water, turn the other way to stop. Move the dial to steam/froth milk. Fantastic default water pressure and even better tasting coffee. It’s a machine that will last a decade if not longer.
- jareds 6mo agoI wasn't planning on buying one, but I'll add this to the list of app enabled coffee tech I refuse to buy. As someone who's blind I'm getting really tired of app enabled coffee equipment with no open source integrations or protocol documentation. Fellow also doesn't appear to make any effort to make there apps accessible. They have had there Aiden out for over a year and I still don't see any notes about accessibility in there app update. I'm not going to buy one and use the home assistant integration since that could break at any time. Luckily I'm more of a coffee drinker instead of espresso so the Ratio Four works well enough for single cups and half pots.
- skrtskrt 6mo agoThey must have machines that are not app-enabled right? I sort of understand why their consumer machines would have that crap but I imagine that plenty of commercial places buying a $20k+ machine for a cafe that's supposed to run for 40 years would not accept having an app involved in maintenance.
- lostlogin 6mo agoIt’s bad. Go into a service shop and see what they think of the computerised La Marsocco. Great coffee, amazing looking machine. But servicing… I got awfully close to getting one then went for an e61. I’m very sure the coffee isn’t as good. I’m very sure the machine will have parts for a long time - it’s been 60 years so far.
- sonofhans 6mo agoA decade seems good to you? We’re still just talking about heat and pressure, well-understood problems. There’s no excuse for a machine like this not to outlive the original owner. Anything else is planned obsolescence or a manufacturing defect.
- nicoritschel 6mo agoIf you're ever in Florence, Italy and love coffee (and La Marzocco) do yourself a favor and visit the museum https://lamarzocco.com/mktcenter/visit-us-in-italy/ https://lamarzocco.com/mktcenter/visit-us-in-italy/
- RandallBrown 6mo agoIf you're ever in Seattle you can visit the La Marzocco US headquarters and actually try out their machines. I actually hate coffee, but I go by their building every day and the machines are very impressive looking.
- inasio 6mo agoVancouver also has a pretty nice La Marzocco showroom, the occasionally organize events, and can always go by to view the very nice machines and if you ask politely you'll get an amazing espresso
- porphyra 6mo agoSomehow, the Bay Area, which is full of really rich coffee drinkers, doesn't have a La Marzocco showroom or even any big coffee equipment shop (Seattle Coffee Gear in Stanford shopping mall in Palo Alto closed a couple years ago).
- realo 6mo agoI used to have a decent espresso machine at home, and try , from time to time, supposedly "barista quality" espressos from cafes around here. I agree wholeheartedly with those who say the coffee beans, the grinder and the barista are more important than the machine. Nowadays at home I use a very simple Bialetti Brikka with exactly 200 ml of water and 20 g of coffee. God shots every single time.
- deaux 6mo agoInteresting, IME it's all beans. At my go-to place, the baristas are pretty bad but the two owners are super dedicated to roasting their own beans, you can always see them putting a lot of time and effort into it. Result is much better than places where the baristas are skilled but they use cheap pre-roasted bulk beans. To take it to an extreme, I doubt the best barista in the world is going to get a good shot out of the default Starbucks beans. But maybe I'm wrong!
- httpsterio 6mo agoYou're not wrong, bad beans are bad beans. But on the other hand, no matter how fancy single origin perfectly roasted beans you have, a crappy barista will most likely pull a terrible shot. Beans can't compensate for the lack of skill.
- httpsterio 6mo agoThat can't really be called a shot anymore tho, you're not even in a lungo territory if you're pulling a 200ml shot. Or do you mean an Americano? Are you adding water afterwards?
- realo 6mo agoAmericano? I would not touch that with a ten-foot pole. No... no water. The Brikka has a pressure valve and the 200 ml of water yield about 125-150 ml of coffee. You might call it a double lungo, but with a bit of crema (yep) and no acidity or sour taste. Just sweet coffee with nice chocolate notes. I use coffee beans from Papua New Guinea, roasted locally at the coffee shop.
- FuriouslyAdrift 6mo agoSo... what is the Corolla of espresso machines?
- porphyra 6mo agoBreville Barista Express probably.
- 01100011 6mo agoMy Breville Bambino Plus was cheap and produces a pretty reliable shot.
- el_benhameen 6mo agoI don’t have the plus, but the non plus still produces better espresso than I can get from the spots near me. As the proud owner of a 2008 Corolla, I approve.
- klausa 6mo agoGaggia.
- lostlogin 6mo agoThe Rancilio Silvia. https://coffeegeek.com/reviews/firstlooks/rancilio-silvia-pro-espresso-machine-first-look/ https://coffeegeek.com/reviews/firstlooks/rancilio-silvia-pr...
- cjr 6mo agoIsn’t Kees van der Westen the ferrari of coffee machines?!
- porphyra 6mo agoThat's more like the Spyker of coffee machines. Incidentally I went to a random coffee shop that had a Speedster in it. It was great.
- reaperducer 6mo agoIsn’t Kees van der Westen the ferrari of coffee machines?! From TFA: It’s why Sean Henry, the owner of Houndstooth Coffee in Dallas and Austin, Texas, was willing to drive across the state in 2009 to pick up a limited-edition La Marzocco machine that the company made in partnership with the Dutch designer Kees van der Westen.
- readingnews 6mo agoDropped in to say this. The Marzoccos are good, but dang the Kees van der Westen are downright amazing... I know a lot of cafe owners who threw the Marzocco out and purchased a Kees and the espresso shot quality went through the roof.
- menaerus 6mo agoDo you know what's the difference between the two? Building an espresso machine isn't exactly a science.
- gyanchawdhary 6mo agoLa Marzocco GS3 and Olympia Express owner here. LM isn't the Ferrari ... that title really should go to KVW and Slayer :)
- cjr 6mo agoNice! Which one do you use most often?
- gyanchawdhary 6mo agoGS3 3 times a day :) it’s got a timer to auto start every morning and the iPhone app is super convenient to switch on and pre heat the machine ..the Olympia is the Leica of espresso machines, beautiful but limited .. it’s really designed for Italian style espresso (dark roast) and even the Olympia grinder works best for dark roasts
- tmoertel 6mo agoBefore you spend many thousands of dollars on a machine better suited to a coffee shop, consider getting a minimalist lever machine. I have (and love) my little Cafelat Robot [1]. It is small, draws no electricity, and relies upon my practiced hands to push preheated water through the coffee puck. There is nothing to get between me and the experience of making great espresso. I can feel the pressure, I can hear the stream of espresso, I can effortlessly adjust the flow in response to what the extraction is telling my senses. Instead of a button press, pulling a shot is now a tactile experience that engages the senses. When the pull is done, I am primed to enjoy the results. Yes, before getting an expensive commercial-style machine, consider what’s on the other end of the spectrum. Full manual has its benefits, both practical and aesthetic. Plus, the money you will save will let you buy a better grinder. And that makes all the difference. [1] http://www.cafelat.com/robot.html http://www.cafelat.com/robot.html
- joe_mamba 6mo ago>consider getting a minimalist lever machine Before spending money on an espresso machine, make sure you have a good grinder first.
- boringg 6mo agoBefore spending money on a good grinder, make sure you have access to reasonable good quality / priced beans in your area! Otherwise your OPEX really starts to go through the roof for shipping coffee (At least my area)
- joe_mamba 6mo ago>make sure you have access to reasonable good quality / priced beans in your area Why? In which country can't you buy high-quality hipster single-origin beans online?
- bch 6mo agoBefore making sure you have access to good beans (had to carry on with the theme), make sure you actually want to have "coffee" as another hobby in your life. Maybe it's worth it to outsource to your local cafe the machine maintenance, grind fine-tuning, bean recipes, hours learning milk steaming, hours spent on youtube, coffee forums, commenting in the occasional HN coffee-adjacent articles...
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- caycep 6mo agoI feel like this is where narrative/marketing does something independent of actual results. I mean, I'm sure a good engineer can figure out the fluid dynamics/pressures/seals/filtration reasonably easily.
- dfxm12 6mo agoA lot of the appeal of the older models, besides the brand name, is the beautiful design. It's like a functional work of art. As a brand that stood the test of time, LM's are also easy to restore too. Yeah, you can get a cheaper machine, but it's not going to look as cool (this is subjective of course).
- napierzaza 6mo ago[dead]
- wslh 6mo agoSince the thread is full of coffee enthusiasts: I recently stepped outside my espresso-only routine and started appreciating V60 and Origami pour-overs. It's been great realizing how much depth there is outside of espresso. Where does the rest of HN crowd land on pour-overs?
- dfxm12 6mo agoI like the idea of a no bypass brewer, like the ceado hoop. It's somewhat more efficient with coffee and more consistent, plus it doesn't benefit from any specific type of kettle or any type of technique. You just pour the water and wait. The shape prevents it from fitting on every mug/carafe, and that's annoying. I've been eying a hario switch to try something new. The chemex gets marks from me for design & size when I need to make a big pot for guests.
- Finnucane 6mo agoI use a Melitta pour over cone, a Baratza grinder, a kettle with a temp control, and a spoon. Once in a while, I'll get out the French press. Good coffee doesn't really need to be complicated. You just need decent fresh beans and a little care.
- el_benhameen 6mo agoMy espresso routine is a strong Americano made with two doubles and a little bit of water (I think I may get some hate for the Americano?). I like it, but it does take a little while to measure, grind, pull, clean, etc. If I don’t feel like going through the whole routine, then a strong V60 pour over is a great substitute. 25-30 grams of the same beans, fairly finely ground, at a 1:13-1:15 ratio works well. Not quite as rich or as pleasant a mouthfeel as the Americano, but good.
- bch 6mo agoFruity Kenyans and Ethiopians by V60 or Chemex, classic Italian on the espresso machine, the way $deity intended. Acidic espresso is gross, but the juicy acidic coffees shine as pour-overs.
- Rapzid 6mo agoI've been doing espresso for years and just mixed it up with a V60 this year as well. My favorite right now is Japanese iced pour over.
- dfxm12 6mo agoItalian design from some of these eras is unmatched. A new LMLM is beautiful, but even the budget home espresso machines from Gaggia used to take it more seriously. A Gaggia classic pro [0] that you can buy today looks clean but boring, but previous era Gaggia Baby [1] would look amazing on any countertop or even as an objet d'art. The lines of the Gaggia Espresso [2] are reminiscent of a Ferrari Testarossa. 0 - https://coffeegeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Gaggia-Classic-Evo-Pro-1-1536x1024.jpg https://coffeegeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Gaggia-Cla... 1 - https://live.staticflickr.com/5749/20930782499_f47f18391a_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/5749/20930782499_f47f18391a_b.... 2 - https://preview.redd.it/i-call-your-oldies-and-raise-this-1987-gaggia-espresso-v0-4vcbnner35za1.jpg?auto=webp&s=683477c2fc24f3bb67b2c7f8f9b853ff925a29bb https://preview.redd.it/i-call-your-oldies-and-raise-this-19...
- stephen_g 6mo agoJust upgraded to the Linea Mini after dreaming about it for almost 10 years - I actually used to have a two group ex-commercial machine in my kitchen that I got 15 years ago, so people are shocked when I tell them this machine was a big downsize from my old one! Part of the reason I bought new is that they are so expensive on the second hand market here - so I’m not too worried that I’ll get most of my money back if I upgrade to something else in 10-15 years. I’m going to overhaul the old commercial machine and will probably get a bit more than what I paid for it so not complaining!
- seemaze 6mo agoI just overhauled a la marzocco sitting in my kitchen. People often inquire about whether it's worth buying an espresso machine for the home, or if it's a good investment as a coffee connoisseur. My reply is always that it was the best money I've ever spent and the worst investment I've ever made. It's a lifestyle choice, and a questionable one at that. But one I'd make again every time given the opportunity.
- _ZeD_ 6mo agoThe very first words from TFA >>> The La Marzocco yeah yeah, I know it's the official machine name and it's another language and whatnot, but it just translate to "The The Marzocco"
- a96 6mo ago"The Ferrari The Ferrari" comes to mind somehow.
- GuB-42 6mo agoI don't know about how the Italians say it, but in French, we would say "la La Marzocco" and it is normal. The first "la" means "the" and the second "La" is part of the name. The second "La" is capitalized but the first one is not. Whatever the meaning of "La" is, it is part of the name, so it will stay. Same idea for surnames that start with "de", like Charles de Gaulle.
- piaste 6mo agoThat's correct. In practice we would often rephrase to avoid the double 'la', not because it's grammatically incorrect but because it is awkward to read (less so in speech). Compare: French: C'est une citation de De Gaulle. German: Das ist ein Zitat von Von Neumann. Both correct, but one would probably add "Charles" or "John" between the two 'de' or 'von' just to break them up.
- weregiraffe 6mo agoJust drink tea.
- itomato 6mo agoWe need a Vevor-style innovator to come in to the specialty appliances market. “Durable goods” needs a shot in the vein. Buy it for life washing machines and dryers that efficiently make clothes clean and are repairable, not an innovation engine or race to the bottom cost-cutting extravaganza. People will buy a $500 espresso machine. They buy $300 water filters and dough mixers and dehydrators and on and on. Yes, it is a single-tasker but Starbucks requires a salary of $255K USD to enable a $7USD/day coffee habit. I’ll teach myself to fish every time, given the option to buy a pole.
- bigbuppo 6mo agoI spent a thousand bucks on a La Marzocco Linea 3AV back in 2006. I have yet to go through the hassle of plumbing it in and wiring it up. It takes up a ridiculous amount of counter space, and after I hurt my back by lifting a La Marzocco Linea 3AV onto the counter about 20 years ago, I haven't been able to move it to storage or get it somewhere to sell it to someone else.