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Aren't today's phone batteries already replaceable with commercially available tools? I can walk into a non-apple store with my iPhone and walk out with a repla
by konschubert 6mo ago
Aren't today's phone batteries already replaceable with commercially available tools? I can walk into a non-apple store with my iPhone and walk out with a replaced battery 20 minutes later.
This isn't even what drives obsolesce of phones, it's software updates.
If you really want to be able to self-swap your own battery, you can just buy an Android that has a replaceable battery.
Do we need to regulate something that isn't a problem? All regulation has downsides, is it worth paying this price here?
- OutOfHere 6mo agoPeople shouldn't have to go to a special store or buy special tools requiring special skills to change a battery.
- throwaway27448 6mo agoI'd rather my phone be waterproof than have a battery I can replace myself
- bombcar 6mo agoIt's likely impossible to legislate but it would be nice to say "each generation has to have one user-replaceable battery". Everyone who doesn't care (the 99%) can buy the iPhone 19x, and the people who want replaceable batteries can get the iPhone B.
- konschubert 6mo agoThen the 99% have to pay extra to subsidise the compliance phone for the 1%...
- OutOfHere 6mo agoWhy do you imply that the phone could no longer be waterproof? Granted, it would take a bit of extra engineering to make it comparably waterproof. There is no reasonable implication that water needs to leak into the internals of the device where it makes contact with the battery.
- orbital-decay 6mo agoThose are not mutually exclusive at all, and there were waterproof phones with replaceable batteries (without even needing a screwdriver). This is mostly an excuse.
- throwaway27448 6mo agoI am not sure I believe this, but I'm sure there are phones that attempted it.
- Aachen 6mo agoThen read upthread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47835184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47835184 I just don't see why we can't have nice things until proven otherwise (especially considering there is already evidence that this works), rather than have glued-shut devices until proven otherwise (by whom then? Apparently IP and practical experiences aren't enough for you)
- syncsynchalt 6mo agoSamsung only rated the S5 Active as water resistant, and only IP67. We're talking about IP68, where you can take a new phone with you on a long swim.
- Aachen 6mo agoI clicked the "parent comment" link all the way to the submission, and opened the submission as well. Nothing mentions IP68. Which "we" is this goalpost coming from?
- throwaway27448 6mo agoI had an s5. It was neither waterproof nor even water resistant—the enclosure got too banged up to ensure seals stay sealed.
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- cowl 6mo agoyou can have both. the waterproof was just an excuse to make you either change the phone or go to a specialised center to change the battery, something that is so incovinient/expensive that people just obsolete their phone instead.
- wa2flq 6mo agoI trust that most batteries from iPhones are currently recycled through proper means either by Apple or third party firms. I don't know how most people will dispose of user replacement batteries, but I suspect the recycle rates will be lower. If you want to ensure higher rates you also need to do something they do in the USA for car lead acid batteries. Charge a deposit fee on the new battery that is returned only when the battery is turned into a valid recycling entity.
- tokyobreakfast 6mo agoHow is it that I owned a fully-submersible phone—with user replaceable battery—over 15 years ago? You've bought into and are now parroting Apple & Samsung marketing BS. P.S. it had a headphone jack too. Gaskets over the ports. The headphone jack was the first victim of "but muh waterproof" despite all the other holes and cutouts.
- q3k 6mo agoWe have the technology to have both - it's called a gasket.
- gambiting 6mo agoPlenty of phones that were waterproof and had replacable batteries already. This isn't new or even particularily hard to do. For a simplest example - somehow my watch is waterproof to 200M down and replacing the battery just takes a tiny screwdriver. Gaskets are not particualarly hard to work with.
- brk 6mo agoIn a perfect world, sure. But people also want phones these days that are physically durable, have some degree of waterproofing/water resistance, maximum battery life, etc. Many of the demands and expectations of a modern phone aren't easily compatible with a replaceable battery design that can withstand the incompetence of the average end user.
- lolftw 6mo agoA GoPro fits all of those requirements and has easily replaceable batteries. Now, I understand that the shape and sizes are different. But I wouldn't mind some extra mm of thickness (I already get a pretty big camera bump anyway) if that means I can replace a battery faster.
- dmitrygr 6mo agoYOU would not mind, many others would.
- spaqin 6mo agoWe don't have a choice in the first place, minding or not. People who would mind missing a 3.5mm jack or replaceable battery have no say anyway, as none of the flagship devices on the market have either.
- solenoid0937 6mo agoHave you ever wondered why none of the flagship devices have one? If the demand existed the devices would as well.
- dvdkon 6mo agoThat only holds if you believe the market has a high level of efficiency. Maybe if we wait long enough, the distribution of devices being manufactured will match consumer preferences, but I don't believe that to be the case today. The iPhone Mini sold ~millions of units. That may not be enough for Apple, but it's certainly enough to make a profit, yet nobody's building small phones now.
- nonethewiser 6mo agoEngage with the content of his comment instead of resorting to ad hominem. He's right - the market wants embedded batteries, although perhaps not directly. Embedded batteries have improved price, battery capacity, water proofing, size, and strength. If the consumer really wanted a removable battery and all that that entails then there would be more phones that offered that. The reality is people misjudge what all that entails. By all means, I would love to just make the iPhone battery directly replaceable without any compromises but that's not reality.
- OutOfHere 6mo agoI originally did engage with the comment. Water-resistance absolutely still is physically possible if the replacement battery is waterproof. Water can over time be corrosive at the contacts, but that's a risk for the user. It does not in any way imply that water will enter the internals of the device from the point of contact with the battery. This will require a bit of engineering at the contact to ensure that water doesn't enter the device. As for the size argument, adding 2 mm of thickness is less important than providing five years of extra life.
- addaon 6mo agoWait, are you proposing sealing the phone and sealing the battery separately, but not sealing the contacts between them? That’s… super sketchy for salt water immersion. Unless you add fuses and a BMS and safety mechanisms into the “battery”. In which case wouldn’t customers want to be able to replace the actual battery within the now-a-battery-plus-computer phone accessory once it wears down?
- Aachen 6mo ago"instead of resorting to ad hominem" Was this edited out or which part do you mean?
- nonethewiser 6mo agocalling him a shill for having a different opinion. just an attack on the person. based on nothing and distracts from the substance of his comment.
- avalys 6mo agoHow do you feel about the batteries in electric vehicles? What about wearable devices like a smartwatch, headphones, smart glasses? Should all these be consumer-replaceable without tools, regardless of the effect on the other things people value in these devices (waterproofing, size and weight, battery life, etc.)? FYI I do not work for anything close to the consumer tech industry.
- ramon156 6mo ago> without tools With commercially available tools, yes. The argument is that, given the skill, you could pull it off. Then again, maybe cars are a different category. I really don't have enough skilll to add to this discussion
- linhns 6mo agoIn other words: IKEA-esque. Should be the goal of any so-called modular systems.
- konschubert 6mo ago> The argument is that, given the skill, you could pull it off. Obviously true for any iPhone battery.
- gf000 6mo ago[dead]
- orbital-decay 6mo agoFor EVs you need at least a hoist/lifter/crane/other power tool to replace a battery. But sure, there's no actual engineering reason they can't be replaced by the user. Same for the smartwatch - you can replace a battery in most ordinary wristwatches that use them, why not the smart ones? IEMs are usually too small and that's where the engineering limitations might matter. Headphones, no problem.
- Zak 6mo agoIn software architecture, we talk about essential complexity and incidental complexity. Essential complexity is inherent to the problem being solved; it can't be eliminated through better tools, process, or design. Incidental complexity is anything added by poor choices or flawed tools. Every line in a "hello world" program that isn't something pretty close to `print("hello world")` is incidental complexity. To change the battery in electric vehicles that follow typical present-day design patterns, it's essential to have a way to get some clearance under the vehicles like a lift, ramps, or a pit, and it's essential to have a lift or jack to support the weight of the battery. Everything else is basic hand tools. It is not essential to use any proprietary tools or software that isn't onboard the car or battery. Requiring anything like that is incidental, and a regulation could forbid it in the name of right to repair, reducing waste, or maintaining a healthy used car market.
- Almondsetat 6mo agoSays who? Not all devices can have the same level of repairability by laypeople. What if I complained that todays' CPUs are too miniaturized and that in my time I could swap the individual vacuum tubes in case something went wrong?
- bobsmooth 6mo ago>Says who? The EU, just now.
- Almondsetat 6mo agoSo the EU is the objective truth of the universe, I guess
- skywhopper 6mo agoNo, not everything can be repairable or replaceable, but batteries can and should be.
- ygjb 6mo agoIf CPU failure was a leading cause of device obsolescence, your argument would make sense. Next, the EU or other regulators should explicitly regulate software mechanisms that prevent owners of a device from installing an alternate OS, enabling open source or aftermarket OS developers to support devices that mainstream vendors no longer want to support.
- bombcar 6mo agoThey're taking "commercially available" to mean things like a screwdriver - not a $1000 phone disassembly machine.
- wincy 6mo agoWith all due respect, I can buy a kit on iFixit for $55 for an iPhone 16 pro max, including the battery. I’ve replaced my iPhone battery before, aside from the glue being a bit sticky so needing a heat gun it isn’t that difficult.
- FridayoLeary 6mo agoAnd you can do it for much less if you want. I've replaced phone batteries with 6 dollars worth of tools and a hairdryer. You can buy glue or sticky gaskets for next to nothing as well if you care about waterproofing.
- leptons 6mo agoMost people are going to give up in 1 minute trying to open a smartphone. I can't imagine most people I know succeeding to replace the battery by themselves.
- bombcar 6mo agoMost people I know would come to me to replace the battery in an old Thinkpad, and those were made to be easily removable!
- bombcar 6mo agoWhich is fine - but the law is the law and will look at what Apple (et al) provide and document. (Thought Apple's $99 to do the repair themselves isn't terribly bad all things considered; and likely part of their attempt to forestall complaints and litigations).
- metabagel 6mo agoHeat gun? This isn't the type of consumer-friendly battery replacement which the EU is looking for.
- dvdkon 6mo agoYou talk about "an Android that has a replaceable battery" as if that was something you could just buy at any store at no inconvenience. Sadly the majority of Android phones no longer have user-replaceable batteries, and only a select few models have official replacement parts available. I'd be happier if this was something the market took care of, but after 10 years of glued-in batteries that you most likely can't even buy, I think it's time for a regulatory nudge.
- askl 6mo ago> If you really want to be able to self-swap your own battery, you can just buy an Android that has a replaceable battery. Those don't really exist anymore. > Do we need to regulate something that isn't a problem? It is a problem and needs to be regulated. > All regulation has downsides, is it worth paying this price here? Of course the upsides of regulations are worth it. The downsides might cause slight inconvenience to the manufacturer, so that doesn't really matter.
- CamperBob2 6mo agoOf course the upsides of regulations are worth it. The downsides might cause slight inconvenience to the manufacturer, so that doesn't really matter. Your next phone will be heavier, bulkier, more expensive, and less reliable as a result of these regulations. It will also probably not run as long between charges. If bureaucrats in Brussels were better at designing phones than Apple, wouldn't they be doing just that?
- vehemenz 6mo agoI agree with the overall thrust of your comment, but you’re overstating it a bit. Removable batteries bring benefits, and the tradeoffs aren’t as dire as you make them seem. It’s ridiculous that regulators are forcing Apple’s hand with design and engineering (I was one of the few against the USB-C switch), but it is also true that Apple is often incapable of making certain kinds of design decisions that have become impossible due to organizational inertia or shareholder-pleasing. Look no further than macOS 26, or the history of bad design decisions on the hardware side.
- askl 6mo ago> Your next phone will be heavier, bulkier, more expensive, and less reliable as a result of these regulations. Huh, phones are getting heavier, bulkier and more expensive already with every new generation? There's no regulation needed for that. Also more fragile because everything is made of glass.
- xethos 6mo ago> This isn't even what drives obsolesce of phones, it's software updates. Agreed, and software-locking parts, like batteries, to only first-party or authorized third-party repair shops is one of those drivers. I can see the argument for software locking some components (to cut down on theft) even if I don't appreciate or agree with them - it is at least a valid reason from some perspectives. Batteries are a wear item though, and will have to be replaced periodically until the device is discarded. Software-locking them to only "Apple and people Apple likes" is unconscionable
- tantalor 6mo agoThis one is pretty cool, it has a swappable battery plus an internal battery so you can swap the battery without shutting down the device. https://rugone.net/products/xever-7 https://rugone.net/products/xever-7
- vachina 6mo agoNot replaceable in the sense of popping it out and putting in a new one in 5 seconds.
- Tade0 6mo agoThis is part of a broader push to reign in on batteries not being recycled at the end of their lives. An easily swappable battery can be processed separately and hopefully become a source of materials that would otherwise need to be mined somewhere far away. Ultimately the goal is to have a closed-loop economy: https://environment.ec.europa.eu/topics/waste-and-recycling/batteries_en https://environment.ec.europa.eu/topics/waste-and-recycling/...