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Tesla tells HW3 owner to 'be patient' after 7 years of waiting for FSD
- wjnc 6mo agoHe should try to cancel the original purchase agreement on the grounds that now the functionality is available Tesla has demonstrated no intention of delivering it to him, thus voiding the original agreement. Normally if a judge agrees, you get a full refund without controlling for depreciation. Class actions in the Netherlands mostly favor lawyers.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- LunicLynx 6mo agoI guess that’s the point, FSD is not available. What you buy is lvl 4/5 available is lvl 2+. I think, this is a calculation to understand if an upgrade of hw3 to hw4 actually solves the problem or if hw3 must be updated to hw5. One upgrade is more economical than two, but I would be annoyed for sure as well.
- nerdsniper 6mo agoThe definition of what “Tesla FSD is has changed over time. Earlier buyers were promised more, so they have a stronger case on that basis as well.
- burnte 6mo ago> I think, this is a calculation to understand if an upgrade of hw3 to hw4 actually solves the problem or if hw3 must be updated to hw5. HW5 is unlikely to solve FSD.
- LoganDark 6mo agoDoesn't canceling the original purchase agreement mean you have to give the car back?
- bmitc 6mo agoI would love for everyone with a Tesla to do that.
- redwall_hp 6mo agoThat sounds like even more of a win.
- akmarinov 6mo agoYeah but it’s a 7 year old car, if it’s a Model 3 it’s around 20000€, nowhere near the original price
- OoooooooO 6mo agoI don't know US law but if the contract is void the original purchasing price would have to be given back in most countries.
- MasanskY01 6mo agoYou mean 13k (got the offer some months ago. Probably less now). That includes VAT by the way. On a VAT-car
- LoganDark 6mo agoIf they purchased the car 7 years ago I doubt they got it for that price. GP says "without controlling for depreciation"
- Flatcircle 6mo agorode with my friend from San Francisco down to San Diego in his Tesla, and he literally didn't touch the wheel or the pedals the whole time. Then a couple days later we drove back the same way. People don't talk about these cars driving themselves enough imho
- freeAgent 6mo agoHe should have been touching the wheel. Tesla nags you if you don't exert varying force on the wheel, so it's not possible for him to not touch the wheel during the trip unless he was using some sort of defeat device.
- morder 6mo agoIt barely nags at you if at all. I haven't seen it nag at me in a long time when I take my hand off the wheel. I assume it's because of the camera watching the driver that they allow it but I'm not sure.
- aojdwhsd 6mo agoIt only nags you if the cabin-facing camera can't tell whether you're keeping your eyes on the road now.
- andrewinardeer 6mo agoWhich is why you put a sticker over it.
- ggreer 6mo agoThat’s no longer true. As long as the car has a cabin camera (which has been the case since the Model 3 came out), it will only nag you if it can’t see your eyes or you’re clearly distracted.
- satvikpendem 6mo agoIt does for Autosteer but not for FSD, which only requires that you look ahead at the road and if you do so then you don't need to touch the wheel at all.
- josefritzishere 6mo agoTelsa appears to be doing crime. The EU does have clas action lawsuits. I expect one way or another Elon will have to issue refunds.
- kingleopold 6mo agothis is funny because roadstar is no longer coming ever and they paid even more deposit there.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- vostrocity 6mo agoNot a Tesla fan or owner here, but I tested a friend's HW3 Model Y on FSD (Supervised) and it was completely competent. Not sure why EU owners seem to not have it.
- ggreer 6mo agoFSD on HW3 is a significantly worse experience. And no FSD version currently available to owners allows you to ignore the road. It's only the robotaxi software that can be classified as "self-driving". Also the EU adopted laws restricting self-driving behavior, making FSD far less capable there. For example, the software cannot exert a lateral acceleration of more than 3m/sec^2. It must also cancel lane changes after 5 seconds after the start of engaging the turn signal. Tesla gimped their self-driving features in the EU & Australia because of this.[1] It’s only the latest version of FSD (which only runs on HW4) that lacks these restrictions and has been approved for use in the Netherlands. Even then, it requires you to pay attention to the road, so it's not what he paid for. 1. https://electrek.co/2019/05/17/tesla-nerfs-autopilot-europe-regulations/ https://electrek.co/2019/05/17/tesla-nerfs-autopilot-europe-...
- vostrocity 6mo agoIt's amazing hearing everyone say FSD on HW3 is inferior because it was shockingly good to me.
- s5300 6mo ago[dead]
- daft_pink 6mo agoI think the government is going to have to get involved for FSD from any manufacturer to actually take place.
- alHqn 6mo agoIt will come right after terraforming Mars is complete, which will be next year. We will also have UBI and all illegal immigrants on Republican farms will have been replaced by Optimus robots.
- zackify 6mo agoI'm one of these unlucky owners. I can't believe I'll ever get anything. After paying the full cost and being stuck on old software that had a promise of having the hardware required for it
- iamjake648 6mo agoSame here. I would totally be fine if HW3 FSD was reduced to $50 a month, but charging the same $100 as HW4 is insulting at this point.
- ProllyInfamous 6mo agoHow much does it bother you that despite your vehicle [most likely] shipping with active lidar, the Tesla executiveteam decided to not write software for its modern usage? More or less than the decade of "available next year"s?
- embedding-shape 6mo agoHere is the website where you (as a European) can gather and hopefully help provide more weight to the matter if you were among the ones that were promised something you're not gonna receive: https://hw3claim.nl/ https://hw3claim.nl/ It's run by the person mentioned in the article, and unsurprisingly the domain is Dutch, but seems the same thing will apply in lots of countries if FSD rolls out there too, not just Netherlands.
- codechicago277 6mo agoMaybe Elon can argue that no reasonable person would have taken his FSD promises seriously.
- laweijfmvo 6mo agoit worked for fox news!
- SV_BubbleTime 6mo agoAnd MSNBC in court.
- daveguy 6mo agoThank Fox for paving the way for inserting your opinion in news. Did you not know that Fox did it in court first?
- SV_BubbleTime 6mo agoI offered no opinion.
- daveguy 6mo agoI wasn't talking about anything related to your opinions. I was pointing out that Fox had to claim "entertainment" in court for their opinion commentators long before MSNBC. Because you disingenuously implied that MSNBC was somehow the opinion news that had to admit in court their coverage included opinions. In case you forgot you replied to "It worked for fox news [claiming opinion]" with "And MSNBC in court." Since you clearly misread or purposely misconstrued my statement, let me rephrase: "Thank Fox for paving the way for inserting ones opinion in news. Did you not know that Fox had to do it in court first?"
- rubiquity 6mo agoI have both HW3 (2021 Y) and HW4 (2025 3). FSD in the HW4 is a delight. FSD in HW3 phantom brakes constantly both back when FSD was a pile of C++ and now with the "Lite" driving model. I don't see how Tesla can ever make FSD suitable on HW3 given the hardware (<200 TOPS).
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- skywhopper 6mo agoI’m forever dismayed that no government agency has cracked down on Tesla’s endless fraudulent claims. It’s a shame people were falling for it 7 years ago, much less today, but only the governments can enforce actual fairness.
- Mobius01 6mo agoIt would require an administration that had a modicum of care for the average consumer/taxpayer, and the current one isn’t it.
- senordevnyc 6mo agoFSD was a sham under Biden too though.
- dmix 6mo agoThe article is about a Dutch owner of an older Tesla who bought with the intention of using FSD (supervised) with HW3 but the government has not approved it's use for that model so the person can't use it. You can use FSD with HW3 in other countries like Canada.
- acron0 6mo agoThere is something uncanny about the way you've phrased your comment, as if to suggest nothing about what Tesla did was wrong.
- dmix 6mo agoI was responding to the HN headline which doesn't clarify the context in which FSD is not available because I know people don't read articles. He could and should try to sue Tesla for the $6k refund which the article already says he's trying to do.
- mlmonkey 6mo ago> 3,000 owners from 29 countries signed up — representing over €6 million in FSD purchases. The math doesn't work out. It should be \euro 20,000,000 in FSD purchases, no?
- adocomplete 6mo agoBought FSD with my Model 3 back in 2018 here in the states. FSD still not delivered and no realistic timeline. Tesla is hoping we upgrade or sell car, but luckily we don't drive much and plan to keep it as long as it keeps running, so they'll have to make us whole eventually.
- ricw 6mo agoBut how? In the states you can’t even take legal action but are forced into arbitration?
- xnx 6mo agoMany legal contracts include provisions to forfeit the right to trial.
- ndsipa_pomu 6mo agoHow does it work if the contract hasn't been fulfilled by Tesla? Wouldn't that nullify the entire contract and Tesla would have to return the full price paid and presumably collect the car.
- jrochkind1 6mo agoIs the amount of money they'd have to refund if they just refunded everyone prohibitive, or is it more of an image/messaging thing, admitting you, erm, took them for a ride? It's clear those customers are never going to get it.
- iugtmkbdfil834 6mo agoFull disclosure. I am currently shorting TSLA so take what I am about to post with an appropriate amount of salt. I gotta say I am continuously amazed how much Musk is allowed to get away with. I know he can get some things done and he is, apparently, skilled manager, fund raiser and bs'er of epic proportions, but I have a hard time understanding how all this didn't catch up to him yet.
- stringfood 6mo agowell he is the wealthiest most powerful person in the world right now, mainly because of SpaceX - I think this gives him plot armour until his eventual demise in 8.3 years
- stackghost 6mo agoHey maybe he actually is a genius. After all, he committed securities fraud at least twice and so far has suffered zero consequences.
- yabutlivnWoods 6mo agoHe's not a genius. The elder generation of politicians he manipulated were educated in their day in historical allegory and gospel Leadership is ignorant and clueless. No idea how "check the work" so to speak. Didn't matter to them. Trickle down made them rich. They ultimately began to encourage it Congress is predominantly nihilists who pretend to believe in American norms to secure power
- cj 6mo agoIf it's true that Musk is getting rules changes so that SpaceX can be included in the S&P earlier than the current rules allow, I think there's a non-zero chance of Musk falling even more out of favor than he currently is, if not worse (if the SpaceX IPO ends up losing people money in the first 1-2 years)
- reactordev 6mo agoThe hype train will ensure the SpaceX IPO is successful beyond the 2nd year mark. Musk keeps making these moves because he knows, he doesn’t want it catching up to him. Better to offload the risk to Wall Street.
- gigatexal 6mo agoSo many people worshipped the jobs distortion field but it was nothing compared to the gaslighting Elon has been able to do with Tesla. The man promised things he couldn’t deliver over and over and over again and investors are it up turning his company into a meme stock devoid of any kind of fundamentals.
- deckar01 6mo ago[dead]
- jijojv 6mo agoPaid twice into Full Scam of the Decade since 2016 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3HCTVk3qME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3HCTVk3qME driver is just there for legal reasons)
- Freedumbs 6mo ago[flagged]
- enslavedrobot 6mo agoI have HW3 in Canada and I use FSD everyday. It regularly drives me for my entire commute with no interventions. The fact that FSD in Europe has been massively delayed is mostly the fault of regulators. Sad but true.
- roryirvine 6mo agoTesla are responsible for ensuring that their products meet the relevant regulations.