10 ms·

Mozilla Thunderbolt

370 points by dabinat 6mo ago

440bx 6mo ago
Thought "hey this better not be AI". Yes it's AI. Just keep making a decent browser and stop getting distracted on shit.
soapdog 6mo ago
oh mozilla, why don't you just focus on Firefox. That is all we want.
- gianthard 6mo ago
  RIP Firefox OS
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- data-ottawa 6mo ago
  I agree with you, there are 1,000 different chat apps and just one Firefox. And the world needs Firefox more than it knows. It looks like they might want to get into hosting/selling services to users on this. From the FAQ: > Is there going to be a hosted version if I don't want to deploy it myself? > Yes, we are planning to launch Thunderbolt for regular users but we do not have a release date yet.
  - dralley 6mo ago
    There is "only one Firefox" but Firefox exists in a market that is not just commoditized, but subsidized to the tune of billions by 3 of the 10 largest companies in the world. The world may need Firefox but it's funny how people complain about Mozilla's dependence on Google while also complaining about every attempt to become more financially independent from Google.
    - techjamie 6mo ago
      They could start getting some of that goodwill back by not paying their CEO a multi-million dollar salary and opening donations to actually help fund Firefox.
      - yencabulator 6mo ago
        Frankly, https://opencollective.com/servo https://opencollective.com/servo is a better place to donate by now.
- roryirvine 6mo ago
  This is from MZLA Technologies, so is a sister product to Thunderbird rather than Firefox.
  - SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago
    [flagged]
- SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Kye 6mo ago
    Firefox started at 0% when IE was more dominant than Chrome is today. Nothing is certain.
    - SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago
      Firefox hit a peak of 32% and has fallen ever since. Effectively Firefox crashed at the same time IE did, and I can’t see in what way Mozilla ever attempted to recover.
      - deleted 6mo ago
        [deleted]
      - yencabulator 6mo ago
        Now correlate that with when the organization was hijacked by its management into no longer being interested in making a good browser.
  - Wolfrich 6mo ago
    What the heck are you talking about? This is from the Thunderbird group not the firefox group...
  - lurkshark 6mo ago
    By that logic wouldn’t it be pretty much over for Mac OS as well? https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share
- dralley 6mo ago
  People "want" a lot of contradictory things. People "want" them to be less financially reliant on Google, while also "focusing" on a browser in a market that is entirely commoditized and subsidized by 3 of the 10 largest companies in the world - and having a wholly implementation independent browser engine when it's so massively difficult and capital intensive that even Microsoft gave up on it.
  - eesmith 6mo ago
    I want them to actively seek foreign sovereign tech funding which come with stipulations that commit Mozilla to certain levels of privacy and anonymity. I want them to go cap-in-hand to other countries and say "if you don't fund us then you are letting the US and surveillance capitalism get between your citizens and their government" and "do you really know what Chrome is doing with your data?" I don't want to pretend they are simply part of a browser marketplace, but rather have them realize they are part of a civil rights effort, with powerful non-market forces they can ally with. And I want those governments to commit to progressive enhancement guidelines like https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/technology/using-progressive-enhancement https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/technology/using-progressi... so new alternatives like Ladybird can start, and further require their agencies to test on a Firefox branch with no AI, no location tracking, full ad-blocking, etc. because while the market is free to ignore certain non-profitable users, a government should not be allowed to ignore some of its citizens. I don't see a contradiction there.
  - pier25 6mo ago
    Having the best browser should be Mozilla's first priority. Investing on AI is not going to make them less financially reliant on Google.
  - drzaiusx11 6mo ago
    I don't think these are contradictory, you're listing what many have wanted all along. There are funding models that would support exactly the above. Microsoft stopped building their own browser engine because it didn't suit their business needs and they could still get a controlling share with significantly less effort by recycling webkit/blink for the umpteenth time. That makes total sense for them. Mozilla has, in the past, guided and pushed back on corporate interests. Today, a large portion of the web now stands, built from the bones of the original khtml project, which was unceremoniously made by a handful of volunteers on the KDE project. Let's not pretend a rendering engine it's an entirely _impossible_ task. It is a LOT of work, and I laud the effortor of the few tireless individuals that make it their work, but in the end it's another piece of software, not unlike an OS. The history goes: KHTML -> WebKit -> Blink Meanwhile: Mosaic -> Netscape -> Gecko Maybe we find maintaining the second lineage is too great a burden and the web just becomes a defacto standard, guided entirely by 3 corporations. It's not what we want, but I guess at this point it's probably what we deserve.
- stormed 6mo ago
  The anti-trust lawsuits with Google have Mozilla realizing they can't just be a company kept afloat by Google. Mozilla's priorities have been pretty complacent, basically just maintaining Firefox, sometimes Thunderbird, and a couple side services that have little financial incentives. The current state of Mozilla is pretty odd since they rebranded to make it more apparent they're a non-profit, while also attempting to become more profitable pushing out new products and services.
- eipi10_hn 6mo ago
  Why is this related to Firefox?
  - rothific 6mo ago
    It's not. Mozilla has been more than Firefox for a long time.
    - dotancohen 6mo ago
      To be clear, it's not from the Mozilla Corporation (which develops Firefox), it's from MZLA Technologies (which develops Thunderbird). Both bodies are under the Mozilla Foundation.
- maxloh 6mo ago
  Mozilla needs money to support the development of Firefox (and the payroll of its high-salary executives). For now, they mainly rely on Google for that money. Google pays them to avoid antitrust cases, to show the courts that they are not a monopoly and that "alternatives" exist. For example, the DOJ once proposed that Google be forced to sell off Chrome. However, if another entity has control over your budget, they also have control over your product. If Firefox becomes "too good" to be a true competitor in the consumer space, the funding might be reduced or even cut off. Creating a new source of revenue allows Mozilla to improve Firefox even beyond the point Google feels "comfortable" with.
  - yencabulator 6mo ago
    Mozilla could stop doing everything else and slow burn their existing $1B into developer salaries over the next decade. They are actively choosing not to.
    - maxloh 6mo ago
      And then what? Just go bankrupt after a decade? That's entirely unsustainable.
      - yencabulator 6mo ago
        1. It's unfair to assume that their primary funding source stops in one scenario and not in the other. 2. 1 billion dollars is a lot of money. Even the interest off it is huge. 3. 10 years is a very long time in tech. 4. I would greatly prefer the money Mozilla earned due to Firefox being a thing was put into developing Firefox, yes. The current Mozilla organization seems to be a mechanism for providing third homes for the executives, starting projects nobody wanted them to start, sullying the Firefox brand with them, and then abandoning them. There's a VC cancer infesting the supposed "free software community" called Mozilla.
        glenstein 6mo ago
        >1. It's unfair to assume that their primary funding source stops in one scenario and not in the other. Wait, what? I thought your whole premise from one comment ago was that they "stop doing everything" and exclusively slow burn away their endowment. They're dead by 2029 if they do that. If they don't do that, then you're just talking about how they currently operate.
- trinsic2 6mo ago
  No, email that supports open standards/protocols is really important right now where many email services are trying force IMAP to retire.
- extraduder_ire 6mo ago
  For a lot of things, I'm glad they don't. A strict focus on just a web browser years ago would mean we never get rust for instance.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
wolvoleo 6mo ago
Curious name choice, that's clearly encumbered by other trademarks. Also, my impression is: yay another AI front-end. What does this one differently that the other thirteen in a dozen don't?
- benoau 6mo ago
  > What does this one differently that the other thirteen in a dozen don't? Mozilla's a lot more trustworthy with privacy and data, and they're unlikely to sell the project to someone who only wants to stuff it full of malware/adware/crypto stuff - or do it themselves.
  - BowBun 6mo ago
    I'm somewhat a fan of Mozilla, but their weak governance with regards to actual plans for the future, a couple of questionable partnerships, and the graveyard of products makes it hard to trust based on a 15+ year-old reputation. Would love to see where Mozilla has meaningfully contributed to the modern tech space (things we all actually use, not Mozilla versions of more popular apps/tools)
    - bryanlarsen 6mo ago
      But despite that, Mozilla is still far more trustworthy than virtually everybody else. Who would you trust more? I imagine it's a very short list. Which is a sad state of affairs.
      - balamatom 6mo ago
        >Who would you trust more? Nobody I'd mention on Hacker News!
      - BowBun 6mo ago
        I think it's also telling that when asked for Mozilla's contributions, the only reply was "but everyone else is worse!".
  - 6mo ago
thecrumb 6mo ago
"Mozilla Bubble" Building things no one wants.
- SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - pndy 6mo ago
    Watefox, Librewolf have both plucked out all unnecessary stuff Mozilla added over the years. Both are good but Librewolf comes with history and cache disabled by default which may be bit surprising. Floorp comes with additional custom interface features, workspaces (tabs grouping) and mouse gestures. And bit better profiles feature - Mozilla decided to redo it recently which lead to some problems. Mullvad has build in VPN, DoH and proxy as an extension, and comes with uBo and NoScript. There's Zen browser that has a quite uncommon UI, and obscure Pale Moon that IIRC still tries to provide old XUL/XPCOM extensions - which often leads to pages rendering issues.
    - mzajc 6mo ago
      A tip for Librewolf: you can easily toggle permanent cookie storage for a site through the "Always store cookies/data for this site" option in the shield button menu on the URL bar. This is very convenient compared to vanilla Firefox where you have to add exceptions through the settings.
- evolve2k 6mo ago
  Some of us are out here still waiting for Firefox relay “premium” to launch and provide disposable mobile numbers like they do email addresses.. but product has for some reason been stuck on “join waiting list” for what feels like an absolute age.
shevy-java 6mo ago
Yikes. Could Mozilla hand over firefox to a new team please? It is clear they are wasting time and energy on things nobody wanted - who wants Mozilla-AI please? I mean, seriously? For people who don't think Mozilla wants to make firefox competitive again; and for those who also don't think ladybird will become a viable alternative one day (that's for the future, I have no crystal ball, I am just pointing at one possibility here). Perhaps we could get more momentum when someone else other than Mozilla handles firefox.
- eipi10_hn 6mo ago
  Why is this related to Firefox?
  - balamatom 6mo ago
    Because Firefox is the only thing that lends Mozilla any credibility.
    - eipi10_hn 6mo ago
      No. Thunderbird has its own merits and they work without Firefox. Mozilla has credibilities in e-mail because of Thunderbird. This topic has 0 relations to Firefox.
      - balamatom 6mo ago
        >Thunderbird has its own merits and they work without Firefox. Fair enough, I guess. I stand corrected.
stormed 6mo ago
I thought Mozilla was going to join the Thunderbolt standard and/or making some tool for it until I clicked the link haha. Very interesting name choice
- SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - busywaiting 6mo ago
    I also love that it's a .io domain. Just to maximize the chance that you'll confuse Thunderbolt dot io with Thunderbolt the I/O standard.
- badc0ffee 6mo ago
  Well, see, one is Thunderbolt io, and the other is Thunderbolt.io.
zuInnp 6mo ago
If this wouldn't be under Mozilla/Thunderbird Org on Github, I would have considered this to be fake. It looks very unsubstantial ...
spudlyo 6mo ago
Chrome on Linux is ~1.47 times faster than Firefox on the Jetstream 3 benchmark as recently reported by Phoronix[0]. That's how we want you to spend the money Mozilla, keeping up with your well-funded rival Google, and making it so we don't end up with a browser monoculture. These sorts of distractions just piss me off, and are not part of your core mission. [0]: https://www.phoronix.com/review/firefox-chrome-2026 https://www.phoronix.com/review/firefox-chrome-2026
- eipi10_hn 6mo ago
  Why is this related to Firefox?
  - JCTheDenthog 6mo ago
    Because Mozilla is wasting money on something other than their core product, once again.
    - eipi10_hn 6mo ago
      Thunderbird is under MZLA Technologies Corporation, their money and resources are unrelated to Mozilla Corporation, who pays money for their Firefox.
      - spudlyo 6mo ago
        I’m not sure if it’s fair to describe a "wholly owned subsidiary" as unrelated. > Thunderbolt is funded through a dedicated investment from Mozilla and is being developed by a separate team focused on enterprise AI products, distinct from Thunderbird’s donation-supported consumer product work. Emphasis mine.
        eipi10_hn 6mo ago
        Yes, it's unrelated. Each one has its own resources and roadmaps. They are totally not dependent on each other. Thunderbird and its roadmaps/projects are not affected by Firefox' earnings at all. One's development doesn't affect the others.
who_is_mr_tux 6mo ago
I'm gonna deploy it on my machine and try it! Better option than using ChatGPT or Claude.
einr 6mo ago
[flagged]
- maelito 6mo ago
  Wait what ? Did you include libraries imported by NPM in this count ?
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - einr 6mo ago
    I don’t think so. I just used a public GitHub LoC counting tool directly on the repo, there are a few. https://ghloc.vercel.app/thunderbird/thunderbolt?branch=main https://ghloc.vercel.app/thunderbird/thunderbolt?branch=main claims 141k and most of it is Typescript.
  - Tade0 6mo ago
    I imagine that would bump that number to milions. I just checked one old take home task in Angular I did last year and the total number of lines is over five million over 35k+ files.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- dralley 6mo ago
  >120k LoC of probably largely vibecoded nonsense for a window with a text box and a button that lets you send and receive some data over a HTTP API. "I will make loads of assumptions without checking so that I can invent reasons to get mad" Note that about 30,000 of those lines are JSON files for localization and testing, as one example.
  - einr 6mo ago
    How much UI text does this thing have that it needs thousands of lines of localization? Where are these files? Especially curious because I see a whole lot of hardcoded english text in there…
pixel_popping 6mo ago
If I may, Mozilla, you shouldn't release half-ass products that looks vibe coded like this, even the website looks like it took 30min to do with Claude
poolnoodle 6mo ago
Thank god for the Ladybird project
Wolfrich 6mo ago
Some confusion I see here is lots of people seem to not know that MZLA who makes Thunderbird and Mozilla Corporation who make firefox are separate entities in the Mozilla Foundation umbrella. This Thunderbolt is a MZLA product... so ya
anildash 6mo ago
Addressing the usual few complaints folks always bring up: * This is from the separate independent team that works on Thunderbird, not Firefox, so there isn't any resource contention happening there * Thunderbird is revenue positive, and this potentially gives that team another revenue stream to be even more self-sustaining through charging companies * Businesses definitely want to control the AI they're using (especially with RAGs of their own data) instead of just throwing it at their LLM vendor and hoping for the best People on HN are fond of asserting that their own POV is the only one. Imagine that there is such a thing as a person in charge of choosing technologies for organizations, and that you're such a person. That's who this is for.
- bakugo 6mo ago
  > Thunderbird is revenue positive Is that why I'm met with a splash screen asking me to donate every time I start Thunderbird? Is this another Wikipedia situation?
  - godelski 6mo ago
    You think that just because the software can be downloaded for free means the developers shouldn't get paid for their work?
  - rothific 6mo ago
    I think that wasn't phrased well- it's "revenue" positive meaning donation money covers more than the expenses
    - anildash 6mo ago
      That’s literally what the phrase means. Can’t help if people don’t know what words mean. It was phrased fine, it wasn’t _read_ well.
      - rothific 6mo ago
        Fair point :)
Pxtl 6mo ago
Aw, another AI thing. I was hoping this was their email service.
- Wolfrich 6mo ago
  that is in beta
ForHackernews 6mo ago
There's an architecture diagram here: https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/blob/main/docs/architecture.md https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/blob/main/docs/ar... It seems like all the model inference is external APIs? So why is the marketing claiming "Self-host on your infrastructure or let us help you deploy. Your data never leaves your control."
- kobieps 6mo ago
  Could those external APIs point to locally hosted models?
bartvk 6mo ago
Lots of negative posts here, who presume to speak for others. I, for one, welcome new entrants especially since they're under the Mozilla umbrella. This client could use the passwords and cookies stored in Firefox. And I'd trust it too, unlike other clients.
butz 6mo ago
Good thing they didn't name this Unity or Proton. We are seriously running out of names for applications and services, ar we?
- Hamuko 6mo ago
  We're not, but companies are not courageous enough to explore new names. I've already used up "cum" btw, so you're not allowed to name your product that.
beeflet 6mo ago
It's weird that they would name it like thunderbird
hexo 6mo ago
No way they really named it thunderbolt. I mean. Seriously? What is next Mozilla USB-C vibeslop?
catlover76 6mo ago
[dead]
CamouflagedKiwi 6mo ago
What even is this? A chat frontend to arbitrary model providers on the backend - I guess that's sort of useful not to have to build yourself but it doesn't feel like the amazing thing they're trying to hype. Some of the features seem a bit weird to me too - like end-to-end encryption? There isn't a server intermediary, so you already have that with TLS to the model provider.
- seabrookmx 6mo ago
  Yeah it seems similar to Gemini Enterprise. There you can deploy "apps" (basically front-ends) on top of the LLM that come pre-configured with plugins to access Google sheets, Databases, your Jira boards, etc. So all this is doing is adding context for the LLM and some persistence. I have yet to see a compelling use case for Gemini Enterprise at my company but we're still experimenting with it.
crazygringo 6mo ago
Wow this is a confusing name. At a glance it looks identical to Mozilla Thunderbird, but has nothing in common. And then of course it's also the same as a well-known hardware interface. I know it's hard to come up with names and pretty much everything is used by something else, but this seems particularly bad.
- Hamuko 6mo ago
  >And then of course it's also the same as a well-known hardware interface. The cherry on top is that the domain is thunderbolt.IO. No other TLDs to pick from?
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- grandpoobah 6mo ago
  I mean there's already an established theme... how hard can it be? Fire-fox Thunder-bird River-wolf Stone-raven ....
  - crazygringo 6mo ago
    Oh that's really good. You're right, something like Riverwolf would fit their branding much more consistently. Just as long as it's not Bikepelican, I'll be happy...
drzaiusx11 6mo ago
For anyone reading this that has worked on the launch of this new product (or the many others of their ilk throughout the years) under the various Mozilla orgs, I mean no disrespect, however I feel it's important to not mince words these days.. I implore ANYONE at Mozilla org to please, please stop working on projects distracting from the complex and necessary work of browser and web standards stewardship. That alone should be the very reason for your continued existence if you have any. Focus on anything outside that purview will lead to the furthering of the, already painful and readily apparent, stagnation of your browser and our standards bodies as entities distinct from corporations. Ditching any direct financial ties to Google or any other browser vendor is both important and necessary at this point, as this clearly represents a conflict of interest in your overall mission. The web as a platform should belong to us all, not just the few corporate leaders of the day. I've watched in real time, saddened by the persistent errosion of our commons that is the web. I see it becoming nothing more than a corporate playground should trends continue, if it's not already too late. There may have been a time when your mission took precident over product launches of seemingly unrelated domains, but that is not what Ii observing today. I think I speak for many in the community in these regards (please correct me if not the case.)
- ojubknobugh 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - drzaiusx11 6mo ago
    Mozilla should not be a business, full stop. The fact that is being run like one, albeit poorly is exactly the problem. I don't think you realize the irony in calling my post childish here. "C'mon" I guess?
    - kgraves 6mo ago
      How would Mozilla replace the $500M a year from Google to not be a business?
      - 6mo ago
ezekg 6mo ago
I swear there are like 10 different Thunderbolts. Why reuse such a common name?
Barbing 6mo ago
Did I seriously click on a Mozilla product and see AI? You guys at Mozilla read the Internet right? Doesn’t this have to be done under another name to prevent massive company-killing pushback?
glitchc 6mo ago
Do trademarks not matter anymore? The name and logo are lawsuits just waiting to happen.
pmontra 6mo ago
The Get Started button links to a contact form. That's unexpected. I looked for the source code repository and thanks to somebody here that hinted at it as a Thunderbird project, I found [1]. That's a better Get Started page. [1] https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt
- rothific 6mo ago
  Updated!
ssalka 6mo ago
I immediately thought "oh, the email client? It's AI now?" Then I realized this is Thunderbolt, not Thunderbird. Kind of an odd choice by Mozilla to have two products with such similar names.
bachmeier 6mo ago
Some feedback: It would be useful to explain what you do differently on your website.
petterroea 6mo ago
All I see is effort that could have been spent improving the rest of Mozilla's products.
IFC_LLC 6mo ago
This was the MOST confusing release I've seen in years. Okay, it took me some time that the mail client is called "ThunderBIRD", not the BOLT. Not that I've used it much. But why the logo in github still shows TunderBIRD? It looks like Mozilla is trying to catch the band wagon for no particular reason. They don't need it AT ALL. But they just jumped in along for a ride.
etchalon 6mo ago
Turns out chat apps are pretty easy to build I guess.
Tostino 6mo ago
I tried to run it on my machine, and the release artifacts are missing entirely. Not going to spend time building from source.
gib444 6mo ago
Naming things is really not that hard
- bluescrn 6mo ago
  Vibe-named
javier123454321 6mo ago
Is it just me or is this really bad copy? The only clue as to what this is on the landing page is the background of the product image. And I also have to sign up to find out anything else about it.
AnonC 6mo ago
So this is only for organizations and not for individuals? The Get Started button goes to a form where it wants to know how they can help your organization. I didn’t see any other link to the source code or documentation. If whoever created this site sees this comment, please clear up the above questions and observations.
- zeeveener 6mo ago
  I believe they're anticipating self-hosters to deploy directly from their Github documentation. The FAQs in Github also imply that a hosted deployment for single users is on their roadmap, but not prioritized. - https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/blob/main/docs/faq.md#is-there-going-to-be-a-hosted-version-if-i-dont-want-to-deploy-it-myself https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/blob/main/docs/fa...
- benkaiser 6mo ago
  For those looking for mobile support connecting to remote MCP servers, I maintain a source-available chat app that does exactly that (uses OpenRouter for inference): https://benkaiser.github.io/joey-mcp-client/ https://benkaiser.github.io/joey-mcp-client/
elAhmo 6mo ago
From the home page I have no idea what is this, what even is AI client? OpenCode competitor? Also Thunderbolt is too similar to Thunderbird, really got me puzzled for a sec.
- shlewis 6mo ago
  Web API wrapper. That's really all it is.
shmoil 6mo ago
Mozilla Thunderbolt? Why not "Phyrefox"? They are so incompetent, they could not even come up with a name sufficiently different from their own product.
- nashashmi 6mo ago
  Think of it as a product similar to Thunderbird, emailing/chatting with a computer instead of a person. But I agree the name should have been sufficiently different. Thunderbolt would have been a great name for an email server.
- unethical_ban 6mo ago
  What's next, iPads and iPods?
miah_ 6mo ago
No thanks.
computer23 6mo ago
What's with the odd name? Apple already has a 15 year-old product called Thunderbolt. Mozilla already has a similarly-named but totally-different product called Thunderbird.
- CharlesW 6mo ago
  [dead]
- rirze 6mo ago
  Agreed. The name collision nowadays is horrible. Then again, it's frustrating trying to name a product in today's era; too many names are taken.
- nottorp 6mo ago
  It's clearly a fancy AI powered cable isn't it? I suppose there is no Thunderbird for Macs then? Or someone in the team would have noticed.
- thiht 6mo ago
  Not sure about the US but in France there’s absolutely no way this would be confused with Apple Thunderbolt. No one talks about it, and I don’t even know it it’s even a thing anymore since USB-C. As for Thunderbird, it’s not the same name? Idk what to say
  - jasomill 6mo ago
    My first thought was "why would Mozilla support a proposal to expose Thunderbolt to the Web after rejecting similar proposals for USB and Bluetooth?" So yeah, especially in light of the lightning bolt logo and "thunderbolt.io" domain name, I think it's confusing enough that I'm honestly surprised there's no "Thunderbolt is a registered trademark of Intel Corporation used under license" notice on the site.
    - kyorochan 6mo ago
      The domain name is the most confusing part! "This is thunderbolt.io. No, not the I/O device, the AI client"...
ndom91 6mo ago
Curious how this compares to open-webui on the web, for example.
econ 6mo ago
The name is strange. They had a fox and a bird, used fire and thunder. The logical next would be Earthworm or watervole.
- tmtvl 6mo ago
  BrimstoneOctopus.
- shmeeed 6mo ago
  Spacemonkey.
  - aragilar 6mo ago
    Seamonkey exists.
bjornroberg 6mo ago
I think this is a smart move, and if Mozilla were the same as 10 years ago, I'd have hope for something good.
jaredcwhite 6mo ago
RIP Mozilla. I can't even with this nonsense…truly a shame considering I once admired this organization and the principles it stood for.
estimator7292 6mo ago
Why does everything AI related feel the need to just take over names and words with longstanding well-established meanings already in common use? Like, seriously, this is like calling your AI model NVME or Northbridge or something. Insanity.
evil-olive 6mo ago
there seems to be a significant disconnect between the claims in this press release / blog post and the actual reality if you look at the GitHub repo. starting from the very first words of the announcement: > Open-source and self-hostable meanwhile, the readme [0] has a caveat, added today, about how it's only kinda-sorta self-hostable: > While we eventually plan to make Thunderbolt fully offline-first, it currently depends on authentication and search functionality (though you can disable search on the integrations screen in the app). You can deploy your own backend with Docker and sign up in order to test it locally. and if you follow the link to the self-hosting instructions [1] there's another caveat that was added today: > Under active development — not production ready. Thunderbolt is currently undergoing a security audit and preparing for enterprise production readiness. These deployment paths are provided for evaluation and early testing. Do not use in production environments. don't tell me it's self-hostable if what you really mean is "you can run it locally for testing". meanwhile, scroll a bit farther down in the announcement: > Work seamlessly across devices with native applications for Windows, macOS, Linux, iOS, and Android which is repeated on the GitHub readme: > Available on all major desktop and mobile platforms: web, iOS, Android, Mac, Linux, and Windows. but as pointed out in [2] this is just flat-out incorrect - there are no release artifacts published, for any platform. come on Mozilla, you need to be better than this. you have to know your target market is engineers and tech-savvy people who see through this sort of marketing fluff. if you want to publish an announcement saying "we're working on a thing that will eventually do X, Y, and Z" then that's great. if you want to release something that does X, Y, and Z, that's great too. but don't over-promise and under-deliver. don't make an announcement that this thing can do X, Y, and Z and then "clarify" that the plan is to eventually do X, Y, and Z. 0: https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt?tab=readme-ov-file https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt?tab=readme-ov-fil... 1: https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/blob/main/deploy/README.md https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/blob/main/deploy/... 2: https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/issues/611 https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/issues/611
kasajian 6mo ago
Someone explain to me why this product is unique. If Mozilla never came out with it, does that mean businesses are stuck with using cloud-based AI? C'mon. There's a lot of products that already offer local-AI. What am I missing?
hardwaresofton 6mo ago
Wow HN really does have a problem with commenting on anything to do with Mozilla. Anyway, awesome to see this from the team inside Mozilla — hope this can become a new revenue stream over the long term. Really excited to see some tight integration with Firefox and Thunderbird in the future. People are going to hate this, but if someday Mozilla expands to being a productivity suite I’d be pretty happy to give them my money. ProtonMail is doing it and I trust them as well.
- KetoManx64 6mo ago
  Mozilla has shown again and again that they care more about their politics than they do about what their customers want. They resently released an updated Mascot that is "non-binary and goes by they/them". They'd rather just keep shoving their politics down their customers throats than actually provide them what they want.
  - glenstein 6mo ago
    I think they're just taking the Sesame Street approach.
steakscience 6mo ago
Like any new Mozilla initiative, this will not exist in a year.
ardline 6mo ago
The benchmark numbers are interesting — would love to see how it performs with more realistic workloads.
shlewis 6mo ago
I first thought "Fine, I'll stop using Thundebird(which I kinda already did, using Betterbird)." But it's Thunder_bolt_? What's with this name?
Yizahi 6mo ago
Ladybird can't release soon enough, can't wait to abandon this sinking corrupt ship. I say that as a Firefox user since beta, both on PC and mobile.
garaetjjte 6mo ago
WTF is that? Wasn't MZLA supposed to be the home of Thunderbird project, and now they are mixing that with some unrelated bullshit?
androiddrew 6mo ago
Yesterday I actually read the docs on Open WebUI. It’s pretty impressive all the features it supports. I will give thunderbolt a look but I’m seriously considering doubling down on Open WebUI. The only thing I don’t like about their features are that tools and functions can’t be offloaded to external compute, it runs on the same machine.
hmstx 6mo ago
Looked at the headline, no prior knowledge of this. "New Mozilla product, okay. Must be... something AI?" click "Ah, of course it is."

370 points by dabinat 6mo ago

440bx 6mo ago

Thought "hey this better not be AI". Yes it's AI. Just keep making a decent browser and stop getting distracted on shit.

soapdog 6mo ago

oh mozilla, why don't you just focus on Firefox. That is all we want.

gianthard 6mo ago
RIP Firefox OS
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
data-ottawa 6mo ago
I agree with you, there are 1,000 different chat apps and just one Firefox. And the world needs Firefox more than it knows. It looks like they might want to get into hosting/selling services to users on this. From the FAQ: > Is there going to be a hosted version if I don't want to deploy it myself? > Yes, we are planning to launch Thunderbolt for regular users but we do not have a release date yet.
- dralley 6mo ago
  There is "only one Firefox" but Firefox exists in a market that is not just commoditized, but subsidized to the tune of billions by 3 of the 10 largest companies in the world. The world may need Firefox but it's funny how people complain about Mozilla's dependence on Google while also complaining about every attempt to become more financially independent from Google.
  - techjamie 6mo ago
    They could start getting some of that goodwill back by not paying their CEO a multi-million dollar salary and opening donations to actually help fund Firefox.
    - yencabulator 6mo ago
      Frankly, https://opencollective.com/servo https://opencollective.com/servo is a better place to donate by now.
roryirvine 6mo ago
This is from MZLA Technologies, so is a sister product to Thunderbird rather than Firefox.
- SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago
  [flagged]
SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago
[flagged]
- Kye 6mo ago
  Firefox started at 0% when IE was more dominant than Chrome is today. Nothing is certain.
  - SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago
    Firefox hit a peak of 32% and has fallen ever since. Effectively Firefox crashed at the same time IE did, and I can’t see in what way Mozilla ever attempted to recover.
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
    - yencabulator 6mo ago
      Now correlate that with when the organization was hijacked by its management into no longer being interested in making a good browser.
- Wolfrich 6mo ago
  What the heck are you talking about? This is from the Thunderbird group not the firefox group...
- lurkshark 6mo ago
  By that logic wouldn’t it be pretty much over for Mac OS as well? https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share
dralley 6mo ago
People "want" a lot of contradictory things. People "want" them to be less financially reliant on Google, while also "focusing" on a browser in a market that is entirely commoditized and subsidized by 3 of the 10 largest companies in the world - and having a wholly implementation independent browser engine when it's so massively difficult and capital intensive that even Microsoft gave up on it.
- eesmith 6mo ago
  I want them to actively seek foreign sovereign tech funding which come with stipulations that commit Mozilla to certain levels of privacy and anonymity. I want them to go cap-in-hand to other countries and say "if you don't fund us then you are letting the US and surveillance capitalism get between your citizens and their government" and "do you really know what Chrome is doing with your data?" I don't want to pretend they are simply part of a browser marketplace, but rather have them realize they are part of a civil rights effort, with powerful non-market forces they can ally with. And I want those governments to commit to progressive enhancement guidelines like https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/technology/using-progressive-enhancement https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/technology/using-progressi... so new alternatives like Ladybird can start, and further require their agencies to test on a Firefox branch with no AI, no location tracking, full ad-blocking, etc. because while the market is free to ignore certain non-profitable users, a government should not be allowed to ignore some of its citizens. I don't see a contradiction there.
- pier25 6mo ago
  Having the best browser should be Mozilla's first priority. Investing on AI is not going to make them less financially reliant on Google.
- drzaiusx11 6mo ago
  I don't think these are contradictory, you're listing what many have wanted all along. There are funding models that would support exactly the above. Microsoft stopped building their own browser engine because it didn't suit their business needs and they could still get a controlling share with significantly less effort by recycling webkit/blink for the umpteenth time. That makes total sense for them. Mozilla has, in the past, guided and pushed back on corporate interests. Today, a large portion of the web now stands, built from the bones of the original khtml project, which was unceremoniously made by a handful of volunteers on the KDE project. Let's not pretend a rendering engine it's an entirely _impossible_ task. It is a LOT of work, and I laud the effortor of the few tireless individuals that make it their work, but in the end it's another piece of software, not unlike an OS. The history goes: KHTML -> WebKit -> Blink Meanwhile: Mosaic -> Netscape -> Gecko Maybe we find maintaining the second lineage is too great a burden and the web just becomes a defacto standard, guided entirely by 3 corporations. It's not what we want, but I guess at this point it's probably what we deserve.
stormed 6mo ago
The anti-trust lawsuits with Google have Mozilla realizing they can't just be a company kept afloat by Google. Mozilla's priorities have been pretty complacent, basically just maintaining Firefox, sometimes Thunderbird, and a couple side services that have little financial incentives. The current state of Mozilla is pretty odd since they rebranded to make it more apparent they're a non-profit, while also attempting to become more profitable pushing out new products and services.
eipi10_hn 6mo ago
Why is this related to Firefox?
- rothific 6mo ago
  It's not. Mozilla has been more than Firefox for a long time.
  - dotancohen 6mo ago
    To be clear, it's not from the Mozilla Corporation (which develops Firefox), it's from MZLA Technologies (which develops Thunderbird). Both bodies are under the Mozilla Foundation.
maxloh 6mo ago
Mozilla needs money to support the development of Firefox (and the payroll of its high-salary executives). For now, they mainly rely on Google for that money. Google pays them to avoid antitrust cases, to show the courts that they are not a monopoly and that "alternatives" exist. For example, the DOJ once proposed that Google be forced to sell off Chrome. However, if another entity has control over your budget, they also have control over your product. If Firefox becomes "too good" to be a true competitor in the consumer space, the funding might be reduced or even cut off. Creating a new source of revenue allows Mozilla to improve Firefox even beyond the point Google feels "comfortable" with.
- yencabulator 6mo ago
  Mozilla could stop doing everything else and slow burn their existing $1B into developer salaries over the next decade. They are actively choosing not to.
  - maxloh 6mo ago
    And then what? Just go bankrupt after a decade? That's entirely unsustainable.
    - yencabulator 6mo ago
      1. It's unfair to assume that their primary funding source stops in one scenario and not in the other. 2. 1 billion dollars is a lot of money. Even the interest off it is huge. 3. 10 years is a very long time in tech. 4. I would greatly prefer the money Mozilla earned due to Firefox being a thing was put into developing Firefox, yes. The current Mozilla organization seems to be a mechanism for providing third homes for the executives, starting projects nobody wanted them to start, sullying the Firefox brand with them, and then abandoning them. There's a VC cancer infesting the supposed "free software community" called Mozilla.
      - glenstein 6mo ago
        >1. It's unfair to assume that their primary funding source stops in one scenario and not in the other. Wait, what? I thought your whole premise from one comment ago was that they "stop doing everything" and exclusively slow burn away their endowment. They're dead by 2029 if they do that. If they don't do that, then you're just talking about how they currently operate.
trinsic2 6mo ago
No, email that supports open standards/protocols is really important right now where many email services are trying force IMAP to retire.
extraduder_ire 6mo ago
For a lot of things, I'm glad they don't. A strict focus on just a web browser years ago would mean we never get rust for instance.

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

wolvoleo 6mo ago

Curious name choice, that's clearly encumbered by other trademarks. Also, my impression is: yay another AI front-end. What does this one differently that the other thirteen in a dozen don't?

benoau 6mo ago
> What does this one differently that the other thirteen in a dozen don't? Mozilla's a lot more trustworthy with privacy and data, and they're unlikely to sell the project to someone who only wants to stuff it full of malware/adware/crypto stuff - or do it themselves.
- BowBun 6mo ago
  I'm somewhat a fan of Mozilla, but their weak governance with regards to actual plans for the future, a couple of questionable partnerships, and the graveyard of products makes it hard to trust based on a 15+ year-old reputation. Would love to see where Mozilla has meaningfully contributed to the modern tech space (things we all actually use, not Mozilla versions of more popular apps/tools)
  - bryanlarsen 6mo ago
    But despite that, Mozilla is still far more trustworthy than virtually everybody else. Who would you trust more? I imagine it's a very short list. Which is a sad state of affairs.
    - balamatom 6mo ago
      >Who would you trust more? Nobody I'd mention on Hacker News!
    - BowBun 6mo ago
      I think it's also telling that when asked for Mozilla's contributions, the only reply was "but everyone else is worse!".
- 6mo ago

thecrumb 6mo ago

"Mozilla Bubble" Building things no one wants.

SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago
[flagged]
- pndy 6mo ago
  Watefox, Librewolf have both plucked out all unnecessary stuff Mozilla added over the years. Both are good but Librewolf comes with history and cache disabled by default which may be bit surprising. Floorp comes with additional custom interface features, workspaces (tabs grouping) and mouse gestures. And bit better profiles feature - Mozilla decided to redo it recently which lead to some problems. Mullvad has build in VPN, DoH and proxy as an extension, and comes with uBo and NoScript. There's Zen browser that has a quite uncommon UI, and obscure Pale Moon that IIRC still tries to provide old XUL/XPCOM extensions - which often leads to pages rendering issues.
  - mzajc 6mo ago
    A tip for Librewolf: you can easily toggle permanent cookie storage for a site through the "Always store cookies/data for this site" option in the shield button menu on the URL bar. This is very convenient compared to vanilla Firefox where you have to add exceptions through the settings.
evolve2k 6mo ago
Some of us are out here still waiting for Firefox relay “premium” to launch and provide disposable mobile numbers like they do email addresses.. but product has for some reason been stuck on “join waiting list” for what feels like an absolute age.

shevy-java 6mo ago

Yikes. Could Mozilla hand over firefox to a new team please? It is clear they are wasting time and energy on things nobody wanted - who wants Mozilla-AI please? I mean, seriously? For people who don't think Mozilla wants to make firefox competitive again; and for those who also don't think ladybird will become a viable alternative one day (that's for the future, I have no crystal ball, I am just pointing at one possibility here). Perhaps we could get more momentum when someone else other than Mozilla handles firefox.

eipi10_hn 6mo ago
Why is this related to Firefox?
- balamatom 6mo ago
  Because Firefox is the only thing that lends Mozilla any credibility.
  - eipi10_hn 6mo ago
    No. Thunderbird has its own merits and they work without Firefox. Mozilla has credibilities in e-mail because of Thunderbird. This topic has 0 relations to Firefox.
    - balamatom 6mo ago
      >Thunderbird has its own merits and they work without Firefox. Fair enough, I guess. I stand corrected.

stormed 6mo ago

I thought Mozilla was going to join the Thunderbolt standard and/or making some tool for it until I clicked the link haha. Very interesting name choice

SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago
[flagged]
- busywaiting 6mo ago
  I also love that it's a .io domain. Just to maximize the chance that you'll confuse Thunderbolt dot io with Thunderbolt the I/O standard.
badc0ffee 6mo ago
Well, see, one is Thunderbolt io, and the other is Thunderbolt.io.

zuInnp 6mo ago

If this wouldn't be under Mozilla/Thunderbird Org on Github, I would have considered this to be fake. It looks very unsubstantial ...

spudlyo 6mo ago

Chrome on Linux is ~1.47 times faster than Firefox on the Jetstream 3 benchmark as recently reported by Phoronix[0]. That's how we want you to spend the money Mozilla, keeping up with your well-funded rival Google, and making it so we don't end up with a browser monoculture. These sorts of distractions just piss me off, and are not part of your core mission. [0]: https://www.phoronix.com/review/firefox-chrome-2026 https://www.phoronix.com/review/firefox-chrome-2026

eipi10_hn 6mo ago
Why is this related to Firefox?
- JCTheDenthog 6mo ago
  Because Mozilla is wasting money on something other than their core product, once again.
  - eipi10_hn 6mo ago
    Thunderbird is under MZLA Technologies Corporation, their money and resources are unrelated to Mozilla Corporation, who pays money for their Firefox.
    - spudlyo 6mo ago
      I’m not sure if it’s fair to describe a "wholly owned subsidiary" as unrelated. > Thunderbolt is funded through a dedicated investment from Mozilla and is being developed by a separate team focused on enterprise AI products, distinct from Thunderbird’s donation-supported consumer product work. Emphasis mine.
      - eipi10_hn 6mo ago
        Yes, it's unrelated. Each one has its own resources and roadmaps. They are totally not dependent on each other. Thunderbird and its roadmaps/projects are not affected by Firefox' earnings at all. One's development doesn't affect the others.

who_is_mr_tux 6mo ago

I'm gonna deploy it on my machine and try it! Better option than using ChatGPT or Claude.

einr 6mo ago

[flagged]

maelito 6mo ago
Wait what ? Did you include libraries imported by NPM in this count ?
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- einr 6mo ago
  I don’t think so. I just used a public GitHub LoC counting tool directly on the repo, there are a few. https://ghloc.vercel.app/thunderbird/thunderbolt?branch=main https://ghloc.vercel.app/thunderbird/thunderbolt?branch=main claims 141k and most of it is Typescript.
- Tade0 6mo ago
  I imagine that would bump that number to milions. I just checked one old take home task in Angular I did last year and the total number of lines is over five million over 35k+ files.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
dralley 6mo ago
>120k LoC of probably largely vibecoded nonsense for a window with a text box and a button that lets you send and receive some data over a HTTP API. "I will make loads of assumptions without checking so that I can invent reasons to get mad" Note that about 30,000 of those lines are JSON files for localization and testing, as one example.
- einr 6mo ago
  How much UI text does this thing have that it needs thousands of lines of localization? Where are these files? Especially curious because I see a whole lot of hardcoded english text in there…

pixel_popping 6mo ago

If I may, Mozilla, you shouldn't release half-ass products that looks vibe coded like this, even the website looks like it took 30min to do with Claude

poolnoodle 6mo ago

Thank god for the Ladybird project

Wolfrich 6mo ago

Some confusion I see here is lots of people seem to not know that MZLA who makes Thunderbird and Mozilla Corporation who make firefox are separate entities in the Mozilla Foundation umbrella. This Thunderbolt is a MZLA product... so ya

anildash 6mo ago

Addressing the usual few complaints folks always bring up: * This is from the separate independent team that works on Thunderbird, not Firefox, so there isn't any resource contention happening there * Thunderbird is revenue positive, and this potentially gives that team another revenue stream to be even more self-sustaining through charging companies * Businesses definitely want to control the AI they're using (especially with RAGs of their own data) instead of just throwing it at their LLM vendor and hoping for the best People on HN are fond of asserting that their own POV is the only one. Imagine that there is such a thing as a person in charge of choosing technologies for organizations, and that you're such a person. That's who this is for.

bakugo 6mo ago
> Thunderbird is revenue positive Is that why I'm met with a splash screen asking me to donate every time I start Thunderbird? Is this another Wikipedia situation?
- godelski 6mo ago
  You think that just because the software can be downloaded for free means the developers shouldn't get paid for their work?
- rothific 6mo ago
  I think that wasn't phrased well- it's "revenue" positive meaning donation money covers more than the expenses
  - anildash 6mo ago
    That’s literally what the phrase means. Can’t help if people don’t know what words mean. It was phrased fine, it wasn’t _read_ well.
    - rothific 6mo ago
      Fair point :)

Pxtl 6mo ago

Aw, another AI thing. I was hoping this was their email service.

Wolfrich 6mo ago
that is in beta

ForHackernews 6mo ago

There's an architecture diagram here: https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/blob/main/docs/architecture.md https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/blob/main/docs/ar... It seems like all the model inference is external APIs? So why is the marketing claiming "Self-host on your infrastructure or let us help you deploy. Your data never leaves your control."

kobieps 6mo ago
Could those external APIs point to locally hosted models?

bartvk 6mo ago

Lots of negative posts here, who presume to speak for others. I, for one, welcome new entrants especially since they're under the Mozilla umbrella. This client could use the passwords and cookies stored in Firefox. And I'd trust it too, unlike other clients.

butz 6mo ago

Good thing they didn't name this Unity or Proton. We are seriously running out of names for applications and services, ar we?

Hamuko 6mo ago
We're not, but companies are not courageous enough to explore new names. I've already used up "cum" btw, so you're not allowed to name your product that.

beeflet 6mo ago

It's weird that they would name it like thunderbird

hexo 6mo ago

No way they really named it thunderbolt. I mean. Seriously? What is next Mozilla USB-C vibeslop?

catlover76 6mo ago

[dead]

CamouflagedKiwi 6mo ago

What even is this? A chat frontend to arbitrary model providers on the backend - I guess that's sort of useful not to have to build yourself but it doesn't feel like the amazing thing they're trying to hype. Some of the features seem a bit weird to me too - like end-to-end encryption? There isn't a server intermediary, so you already have that with TLS to the model provider.

seabrookmx 6mo ago
Yeah it seems similar to Gemini Enterprise. There you can deploy "apps" (basically front-ends) on top of the LLM that come pre-configured with plugins to access Google sheets, Databases, your Jira boards, etc. So all this is doing is adding context for the LLM and some persistence. I have yet to see a compelling use case for Gemini Enterprise at my company but we're still experimenting with it.

crazygringo 6mo ago

Wow this is a confusing name. At a glance it looks identical to Mozilla Thunderbird, but has nothing in common. And then of course it's also the same as a well-known hardware interface. I know it's hard to come up with names and pretty much everything is used by something else, but this seems particularly bad.

Hamuko 6mo ago
>And then of course it's also the same as a well-known hardware interface. The cherry on top is that the domain is thunderbolt.IO. No other TLDs to pick from?
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
grandpoobah 6mo ago
I mean there's already an established theme... how hard can it be? Fire-fox Thunder-bird River-wolf Stone-raven ....
- crazygringo 6mo ago
  Oh that's really good. You're right, something like Riverwolf would fit their branding much more consistently. Just as long as it's not Bikepelican, I'll be happy...

drzaiusx11 6mo ago

For anyone reading this that has worked on the launch of this new product (or the many others of their ilk throughout the years) under the various Mozilla orgs, I mean no disrespect, however I feel it's important to not mince words these days.. I implore ANYONE at Mozilla org to please, please stop working on projects distracting from the complex and necessary work of browser and web standards stewardship. That alone should be the very reason for your continued existence if you have any. Focus on anything outside that purview will lead to the furthering of the, already painful and readily apparent, stagnation of your browser and our standards bodies as entities distinct from corporations. Ditching any direct financial ties to Google or any other browser vendor is both important and necessary at this point, as this clearly represents a conflict of interest in your overall mission. The web as a platform should belong to us all, not just the few corporate leaders of the day. I've watched in real time, saddened by the persistent errosion of our commons that is the web. I see it becoming nothing more than a corporate playground should trends continue, if it's not already too late. There may have been a time when your mission took precident over product launches of seemingly unrelated domains, but that is not what Ii observing today. I think I speak for many in the community in these regards (please correct me if not the case.)

ojubknobugh 6mo ago
[flagged]
- drzaiusx11 6mo ago
  Mozilla should not be a business, full stop. The fact that is being run like one, albeit poorly is exactly the problem. I don't think you realize the irony in calling my post childish here. "C'mon" I guess?
  - kgraves 6mo ago
    How would Mozilla replace the $500M a year from Google to not be a business?
    - 6mo ago

ezekg 6mo ago

I swear there are like 10 different Thunderbolts. Why reuse such a common name?

Barbing 6mo ago

Did I seriously click on a Mozilla product and see AI? You guys at Mozilla read the Internet right? Doesn’t this have to be done under another name to prevent massive company-killing pushback?

glitchc 6mo ago

Do trademarks not matter anymore? The name and logo are lawsuits just waiting to happen.

pmontra 6mo ago

The Get Started button links to a contact form. That's unexpected. I looked for the source code repository and thanks to somebody here that hinted at it as a Thunderbird project, I found [1]. That's a better Get Started page. [1] https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt

rothific 6mo ago
Updated!

ssalka 6mo ago

I immediately thought "oh, the email client? It's AI now?" Then I realized this is Thunderbolt, not Thunderbird. Kind of an odd choice by Mozilla to have two products with such similar names.

bachmeier 6mo ago

Some feedback: It would be useful to explain what you do differently on your website.

petterroea 6mo ago

All I see is effort that could have been spent improving the rest of Mozilla's products.

IFC_LLC 6mo ago

This was the MOST confusing release I've seen in years. Okay, it took me some time that the mail client is called "ThunderBIRD", not the BOLT. Not that I've used it much. But why the logo in github still shows TunderBIRD? It looks like Mozilla is trying to catch the band wagon for no particular reason. They don't need it AT ALL. But they just jumped in along for a ride.

etchalon 6mo ago

Turns out chat apps are pretty easy to build I guess.

Tostino 6mo ago

I tried to run it on my machine, and the release artifacts are missing entirely. Not going to spend time building from source.

gib444 6mo ago

Naming things is really not that hard

bluescrn 6mo ago
Vibe-named

javier123454321 6mo ago

Is it just me or is this really bad copy? The only clue as to what this is on the landing page is the background of the product image. And I also have to sign up to find out anything else about it.

AnonC 6mo ago

So this is only for organizations and not for individuals? The Get Started button goes to a form where it wants to know how they can help your organization. I didn’t see any other link to the source code or documentation. If whoever created this site sees this comment, please clear up the above questions and observations.

zeeveener 6mo ago
I believe they're anticipating self-hosters to deploy directly from their Github documentation. The FAQs in Github also imply that a hosted deployment for single users is on their roadmap, but not prioritized. - https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/blob/main/docs/faq.md#is-there-going-to-be-a-hosted-version-if-i-dont-want-to-deploy-it-myself https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/blob/main/docs/fa...
benkaiser 6mo ago
For those looking for mobile support connecting to remote MCP servers, I maintain a source-available chat app that does exactly that (uses OpenRouter for inference): https://benkaiser.github.io/joey-mcp-client/ https://benkaiser.github.io/joey-mcp-client/

elAhmo 6mo ago

From the home page I have no idea what is this, what even is AI client? OpenCode competitor? Also Thunderbolt is too similar to Thunderbird, really got me puzzled for a sec.

shlewis 6mo ago
Web API wrapper. That's really all it is.

shmoil 6mo ago

Mozilla Thunderbolt? Why not "Phyrefox"? They are so incompetent, they could not even come up with a name sufficiently different from their own product.

nashashmi 6mo ago
Think of it as a product similar to Thunderbird, emailing/chatting with a computer instead of a person. But I agree the name should have been sufficiently different. Thunderbolt would have been a great name for an email server.
unethical_ban 6mo ago
What's next, iPads and iPods?

miah_ 6mo ago

No thanks.

computer23 6mo ago

What's with the odd name? Apple already has a 15 year-old product called Thunderbolt. Mozilla already has a similarly-named but totally-different product called Thunderbird.

CharlesW 6mo ago
[dead]
rirze 6mo ago
Agreed. The name collision nowadays is horrible. Then again, it's frustrating trying to name a product in today's era; too many names are taken.
nottorp 6mo ago
It's clearly a fancy AI powered cable isn't it? I suppose there is no Thunderbird for Macs then? Or someone in the team would have noticed.
thiht 6mo ago
Not sure about the US but in France there’s absolutely no way this would be confused with Apple Thunderbolt. No one talks about it, and I don’t even know it it’s even a thing anymore since USB-C. As for Thunderbird, it’s not the same name? Idk what to say
- jasomill 6mo ago
  My first thought was "why would Mozilla support a proposal to expose Thunderbolt to the Web after rejecting similar proposals for USB and Bluetooth?" So yeah, especially in light of the lightning bolt logo and "thunderbolt.io" domain name, I think it's confusing enough that I'm honestly surprised there's no "Thunderbolt is a registered trademark of Intel Corporation used under license" notice on the site.
  - kyorochan 6mo ago
    The domain name is the most confusing part! "This is thunderbolt.io. No, not the I/O device, the AI client"...

ndom91 6mo ago

Curious how this compares to open-webui on the web, for example.

econ 6mo ago

The name is strange. They had a fox and a bird, used fire and thunder. The logical next would be Earthworm or watervole.

tmtvl 6mo ago
BrimstoneOctopus.
shmeeed 6mo ago
Spacemonkey.
- aragilar 6mo ago
  Seamonkey exists.

bjornroberg 6mo ago

I think this is a smart move, and if Mozilla were the same as 10 years ago, I'd have hope for something good.

jaredcwhite 6mo ago

RIP Mozilla. I can't even with this nonsense…truly a shame considering I once admired this organization and the principles it stood for.

estimator7292 6mo ago

Why does everything AI related feel the need to just take over names and words with longstanding well-established meanings already in common use? Like, seriously, this is like calling your AI model NVME or Northbridge or something. Insanity.

evil-olive 6mo ago

there seems to be a significant disconnect between the claims in this press release / blog post and the actual reality if you look at the GitHub repo. starting from the very first words of the announcement: > Open-source and self-hostable meanwhile, the readme [0] has a caveat, added today, about how it's only kinda-sorta self-hostable: > While we eventually plan to make Thunderbolt fully offline-first, it currently depends on authentication and search functionality (though you can disable search on the integrations screen in the app). You can deploy your own backend with Docker and sign up in order to test it locally. and if you follow the link to the self-hosting instructions [1] there's another caveat that was added today: > Under active development — not production ready. Thunderbolt is currently undergoing a security audit and preparing for enterprise production readiness. These deployment paths are provided for evaluation and early testing. Do not use in production environments. don't tell me it's self-hostable if what you really mean is "you can run it locally for testing". meanwhile, scroll a bit farther down in the announcement: > Work seamlessly across devices with native applications for Windows, macOS, Linux, iOS, and Android which is repeated on the GitHub readme: > Available on all major desktop and mobile platforms: web, iOS, Android, Mac, Linux, and Windows. but as pointed out in [2] this is just flat-out incorrect - there are no release artifacts published, for any platform. come on Mozilla, you need to be better than this. you have to know your target market is engineers and tech-savvy people who see through this sort of marketing fluff. if you want to publish an announcement saying "we're working on a thing that will eventually do X, Y, and Z" then that's great. if you want to release something that does X, Y, and Z, that's great too. but don't over-promise and under-deliver. don't make an announcement that this thing can do X, Y, and Z and then "clarify" that the plan is to eventually do X, Y, and Z. 0: https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt?tab=readme-ov-file https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt?tab=readme-ov-fil... 1: https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/blob/main/deploy/README.md https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/blob/main/deploy/... 2: https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/issues/611 https://github.com/thunderbird/thunderbolt/issues/611

kasajian 6mo ago

Someone explain to me why this product is unique. If Mozilla never came out with it, does that mean businesses are stuck with using cloud-based AI? C'mon. There's a lot of products that already offer local-AI. What am I missing?

hardwaresofton 6mo ago

Wow HN really does have a problem with commenting on anything to do with Mozilla. Anyway, awesome to see this from the team inside Mozilla — hope this can become a new revenue stream over the long term. Really excited to see some tight integration with Firefox and Thunderbird in the future. People are going to hate this, but if someday Mozilla expands to being a productivity suite I’d be pretty happy to give them my money. ProtonMail is doing it and I trust them as well.

KetoManx64 6mo ago
Mozilla has shown again and again that they care more about their politics than they do about what their customers want. They resently released an updated Mascot that is "non-binary and goes by they/them". They'd rather just keep shoving their politics down their customers throats than actually provide them what they want.
- glenstein 6mo ago
  I think they're just taking the Sesame Street approach.

steakscience 6mo ago

Like any new Mozilla initiative, this will not exist in a year.

ardline 6mo ago

The benchmark numbers are interesting — would love to see how it performs with more realistic workloads.

shlewis 6mo ago

I first thought "Fine, I'll stop using Thundebird(which I kinda already did, using Betterbird)." But it's Thunder_bolt_? What's with this name?

Yizahi 6mo ago

Ladybird can't release soon enough, can't wait to abandon this sinking corrupt ship. I say that as a Firefox user since beta, both on PC and mobile.

garaetjjte 6mo ago

WTF is that? Wasn't MZLA supposed to be the home of Thunderbird project, and now they are mixing that with some unrelated bullshit?

androiddrew 6mo ago

Yesterday I actually read the docs on Open WebUI. It’s pretty impressive all the features it supports. I will give thunderbolt a look but I’m seriously considering doubling down on Open WebUI. The only thing I don’t like about their features are that tools and functions can’t be offloaded to external compute, it runs on the same machine.

hmstx 6mo ago

Looked at the headline, no prior knowledge of this. "New Mozilla product, okay. Must be... something AI?" click "Ah, of course it is."