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ICAO issued new power bank restriction on flight
- Liftyee 7mo agoInteresting... anyone know if they've released the rationale/data behind this? I could see a few reasons why power banks present a larger risk than phones/computers (battery capacity, quality control), but it seems like the 100Wh battery limit already covers one of these. In a similar vein, China banned non-CCC certified (the equivalent to UL or CE) power banks on flights from 2025, which seems to be targeting the quality control side of the problem. Not just on paper - the security officers inspected every lithium battery I was carrying, even the one in my flashlight.
- tristanj 7mo agoLook up Air Busan Flight 391, a power bank in someone's carryon caused the entire plane to burn down in 5 minutes. The airplane (an Airbus A321) was destroyed. The only reason there was not total loss of life was because the plane hadn't taken off yet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Busan_Flight_391 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Busan_Flight_391
- ranger_danger 7mo agoThis could happen with any battery-powered device though. But I don't see ICAO or FAA banning e.g. laptops any time soon, even though they may carry more energy than a single power bank.
- Blackthorn 7mo agoHave you seen what passes for quality on the random power banks sold by Amazon?
- markdown 7mo agoRandom power banks are about the same quality as random USB drives.
- NetMageSCW 6mo agoFortunately random USB drives are unlikely to catch fire.
- sofixa 7mo ago> I could see a few reasons why power banks present a larger risk than phones/computers (battery capacity, quality control), but it seems like the 100Wh battery limit already covers one of these. Yeah, and it's the other one that is the main problem. It is simply impossible to know the quality of a power bank by looking at it. > China banned non-CCC certified (the equivalent to UL or CE) And it costs nothing to stamp the logo as if you're certified without actually going through any certification. Powerbanks are almost expendable, and can be acquried from supermarkets, corner shops, airports, even night clubs. There are even disposable ones (horrible idea). The more complex and expensive the device (like a laptop), the more certain can you be that there will be at least some quality control. In a $5/5eur powerbank, which any one could potentially be, it's almost guaranteeed there would be none.
- fmajid 7mo agoOne deterrent is, in China corporate criminals are executed, like those who put melamine in infant formula.
- bilbo0s 7mo agoThat's awesome for consumers in China. What about the rest of us? That kind of fraud is oftentimes only a fine in many other nations.
- SoftTalker 7mo agoThe Chinese fly internationally too. So there's some motivation to not have these in other countries.
- bilbo0s 7mo agoNot really worried about the Chinese. As was pointed out, they just hang a sword of damocles over the head of every entrepreneur and engineer who even thinks about doing something like that. What about power banks from India? Vietnam? Malaysia? Korea? That's what I'm saying. If there are nations where you can get away with it, then those power banks can end up in Western, African or South American markets. (I'm counting getting a fine, or paying a bribe, as getting away with it. I don't really consider those punishments that will provide sufficient deterrent.)
- capnrefsmmat 7mo agoDiscussion is included in the Dangerous Goods Panel report, agenda item 4.3 (pages 39-41) and Appendix E (beginning page 89). https://www.icao.int/sites/default/files/DangerousGoods/DGP%20Meeting%20Documentation/DGP-30/4_Report/English/Final%20report.pdf https://www.icao.int/sites/default/files/DangerousGoods/DGP%... Paragraph 4.3.3: > While data indicated that portable electronic devices were more often the cause of fire in aircraft cabins than power banks were, the latter were a significant concern due to their increased use and a prevalence of lower-quality products with defects or vulnerabilities that were more likely to lead to thermal events. Power banks were also not offered the same level of protection that batteries installed in portable electronic devices were provided. The amendments therefore focused on power banks.
- trebligdivad 7mo agoAnother possibility is that you tend to keep an eye on where your phone and laptop are; there have been some plane fires where people drop a phone into a seat and it ends up getting bent, but at least they notice it fairly quickly. (Will people know the direction if their USB-C power bank is charging from their phone or their phone is charging from their power bank?)
- dbcurtis 7mo agoIt seems to me that compared to your phone, a power brick dangling off a charging cable is much more likely to slip off your lap unnoticed and get wedged in the seat hinge only to get subsequently punctured. I recently took a flight where I had a laptop, my phone, a power brick, a new power brick for my wife, a second phone (for reasons) and a battery for a piece of ham radio equipment in my backpack. As I got on the plane, I was thinking I was probably one of the risker passengers on board :) Anyway, when I use the brick, I keep it zipped in a jacket pocket with just the charing cable coming out in an effort to keep it from finding its way to a place that it shouldn't.
- zarzavat 7mo agoPhones tend to be designed by companies competent enough to design a phone. There's a skill floor required that just doesn't exist for power banks. Another reason is that phones get replaced more frequently, whereas a power bank will be continually used essentially until failure. I only stopped using my last power bank because it puffed up like a balloon. But yes, probably where this is all headed is that some day in-seat power will be banned so that you can only discharge and not charge your devices.
- mtmail 7mo agoGalaxy Note 7 was a notable exception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Note_7#Battery_explosions_and_recalls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Note_7#Battery_...
- yftsui 7mo ago> “China banned non-CCC certified, … which seems to be targeting the quality control side of the problem” that’s not fully true though, ROMOSS is the brand that sold power banks caught fire, however all of those were CCC certified.
- nharada 7mo agoWas expecting to be annoyed but this seems reasonable. You can have 2 power banks and can't charge them during flight
- quantummagic 7mo agoLimiting the devices to two per person seems nonsensical to me. The devices are either dangerous, or they're not. If they're dangerous, two is too many. And if they're not, then why limit them only to two?
- ddalex 7mo agoQuantity is a quality of its own. Maybe there is enough plane onboard capacity to deal with just 50 batteries, let's say; multiply the failure rate expected and the pax capacity of the plane and you get how many batteries you can afford to have onboard and still be able to deal with worst case scenario.
- bryant 7mo agoMore batteries, more likely that you'll have even just one of them fail. Since even one of them (to your point) failing is enough of a reason to divert the flight, better to start by reducing the probability of that happening in ways people can swallow.
- quantummagic 7mo agoSo having 500 batteries on board is okay.. but 750 is too risky? I just have a hard time believing that the math is actually mathing in this case. Maybe you're right, and this is just a first step to get people to gradually accept more restrictions.
- nharada 7mo ago> The devices are either dangerous, or they're not That's not actually how it works though, it's all a risk and percentages. Nobody says "driving is either safe or it's not" or "delivering a baby is either safe or it's not"
- quantummagic 7mo agoThat's not actually how it works though. There's a reason we restrict people to zero bombs allowed on board.
- amelius 7mo agoJust give us internet free of extra charge.
- longislandguido 7mo agoPower banks were a mistake. It's akin to carrying fireworks in your bag. Ban them all from air travel. Every one I have owned has been recalled for being a fire hazard. EVERY SINGLE ONE. I stopped buying them as a result. We're talking name brand devices, not junk off AliExpress.
- miyuru 7mo agowhat about your mobile phone or laptop?
- longislandguido 7mo agoPhone batteries are typically smaller (less energy which can be violently dissipated) than most power banks. Naturally you will ask, what about tablets and laptops? They are prohibited from checked luggage for this reason. Power banks however are smaller and easier to conceal. The risk is really in a fire developing in your bag down below in cargo, where no one can see it. By the time the fire alarms go off, it's too late and good luck if you are over water or the Arctic. If it happens upstairs they can at least tend to it with a fire extinguisher or bag/blanket. See ValuJet Flight 592, fire in an airplane's cargo hold is probably one of the scariest ways to slowly die. It's all about corralling risk. You can't tell people they can't bring their laptops. But power banks are unnecessary nice-to-haves.
- drum55 7mo agoThere are fire extinguishers and smoke detectors in the holds of aircraft.
- petre 7mo agoExcept you can't extingush a lithium cell fire because it has the oxydizer inside. Once you see one you'll understand. It's scary.
- majorchord 7mo agoLi-ion fires do not require external oxygen, the cathode decomposes to release its own oxygen gas during thermal runaway... fire extinguishers will not stop it.
- snops 7mo agoMany airlines are going much further than this, for instance Virgin Atlantic ban you from either charging or charging from any power bank, and you can't keep them in the overhead locker, you must keep them next to you in case it starts burning spontaneously! They have a "fire containment bag" they can chuck it in should you notice it getting hot or smoking. https://www.virginatlantic.com/en-US/help/articles/powerbanks-and-spare-batteries----c4183fc1-0137-48bf-9452-a321239eb93a https://www.virginatlantic.com/en-US/help/articles/powerbank...
- OptionOfT 7mo agoCrazy thing about these bags is that they're just containment. Once the thermal runaway has started, it's very hard to start as it brings its own oxygen, heat and fuel. Hence why many places bring a container filled with water to extinguish an EV fire, and then probably send it to a wet shredder to make sure it doesn't re-ignite.
- Spooky23 7mo agoMy company distributed buckets filled with cat litter for containment to every branch office. We cut the rate of fire (already low) in half by containing compromised batteries. It’s something like 0.02%-0.03% which is significant given the massive scope. Something like 200k devices and about 3% with battery issues of all types. When you think about the number of flights, passengers with lithium batters and challenges of the airplane environment, it’s a hard problem. We’re lucky the engineering around these devices are as good as it is.
- 3eb7988a1663 7mo agoIs there anything special about cat litter? Or just cheap and abundant?
- AlotOfReading 7mo agoThe common clumping litters are usually some form of clay, dried to remove moisture. It's about as nonflammable as things come and lighter than undried clay.
- baggy_trough 7mo agoI couldn't find the actual regulation. What counts as a "power bank"? I travel with a bunch of GoPro batteries, but they are smaller.
- broadsidepicnic 7mo agoIt's no regulation, per se. ICAO sets up rules and its up to member states to create regulation based on that.
- aitchnyu 7mo agoUmm, did they mention the Joules (mAh) limit and combustibility?
- physhster 7mo agoSome airlines and/or local aviation authorities have additional restrictions. China wants CCC certified power banks, Thailand has a strict 160 Wh limit. Both are very strictly enforced.
- rootusrootus 7mo agoSeems reasonable enough, though it will require a little extra work if you're the designated battery-carrier when your family flies somewhere.
- perching_aix 7mo agoFingers crossed the Donut Lab solid state battery ends up being the real deal, lives up to the hype, and this sillyness can finally go away. Recent tests look promising from a (lack of a) thermal runaway standpoint at least. The only question is if the rules will mind the difference in battery composition and chemistry.
- Animats 7mo agoMost of the solid state batteries have far less thermal runaway problem than lithium-ion batteries. At this point, several companies have working demo solid state batteries, but the price is far too high. Mercedes has one demo car with a solid state battery. Ducati has one motorcycle. Donut Labs just has one demo cell, not even enough for their motorcycle. The technology works but is so expensive there aren't even multiple prototypes. Samsung says they will ship some solid state batteries in watches and earbuds this year, where the batteries are so tiny they're affordable. Even solid state batteries for phones are still too costly. Everybody in the industry is trying to solve the production price problem. Consensus is that the price starts to come down around 2028 or so. Lithium iron phosphate batteries don't have a thermal runaway problem, either, but they have about half the Wh/Kg of lithium-ion, so they're not popular for portable devices. Ten years out, lithium-ion batteries will probably be obsolete technology and totally prohibited on aircraft.
- jacquesm 7mo agoWhat is your take on Lithium-Titanate (sp?) cells?
- addaon 7mo agoNot the original poster, but I’m a fan, in appropriate applications. Robust, fast discharge, long cycle life, and can charge and discharge at lower temperatures than most other chemistries (-20C and -40C, for what I’m using). Downsides are limited availability and sizing, and absolute crap energy density even compared to LFP.
- brcmthrowaway 7mo agoCan a battery be built up the same way as DRAM? Why are we using weird chemicals?
- aftbit 7mo agoNo
- broadsidepicnic 7mo agoPilot here. While I definitely approve this and consider the limit to be one too many, I wish ecigarettes would be rather the target as soon as possible. Those are dangerous, and lately the most potential culprit for lithium related problems aboard.
- tadfisher 7mo agoThat is surprising to me, considering the sheer number of phones/tablets/laptops on every flight. Does anyone maintain a list of incidents?
- baby_souffle 7mo agoI can't imagine that the QA process for vapes is better than even the _super_ budget tablet or phone, though.
- sealeck 7mo agoSurely the other way around? Phone QA process >>> disposable vape QA process...
- ComputerGuru 7mo agoYou’re both saying the same thing.
- joecool1029 7mo agoIt's not even just a QA thing, consider the use case: A sub-ohm vape head is basically almost shorting what is often a unprotected lithium ion cell (18650 or whatnot). Phones meanwhile are full of temperature sensors, battery pack in the phone has some kind of firmware/monitoring, board on the phone has a charge controller. There are plenty of good cell manufacturers that won't have problems in this current dumping situation (and will have certain passive protections like a CID to cut the current if it gets too hot). Problem is people like cheap and there are sketchy knockoff cells without those protections and shoddy manufacturing quality. If there was anything recently that forced the change it was probably the CT scans of the Haribo battery packs showing the cathode/anode overlap. This sort of thing should spook airlines. Do we still have UL? Do they test battery packs? Why not make it a requirement to only fly with ones that pass lab testing like UL?
- jeremie_strand 7mo ago[dead]
- Scoundreller 7mo agoI wouldn’t bring a power bank if the usb-a ports on most aircraft could just put out more than a measly 500ma.
- girvo 7mo agoI wish they’d just have normal outlets like a bunch of the 777s I’ve flown on have.
- troad 7mo agoToo tricky for international flights. Easier if you have a vast domestic flight market (US, China, etc), but not really practical if you're flying across borders, which is the base case in Europe, much of Asia, etc. With traditional outlets you also inherit the whole legacy mess of competing standards for power mains. You don't want to feed 240V to a NEMA 1-15 outlet and melt someone's device mid-flight. I do wonder if in some far future we'll just replace wall outlets with USBs for ordinary appliances, reserving traditional outlets for major power draws like stovetops, HVAC, industrial equipment etc. Maybe planes are the vanguard of this future?
- pocksuppet 7mo agoEurope has a lowest common denominator plug, there are universal outlets (jack of all trades, master of none) that you already often find in airports, and each airline has a home country anyway.
- troad 7mo agoYeah, no. In EU+CH alone, you've got Schuko, French, reversed French (Czech), British (Ireland, Malta, Cyprus), and more rarely Italian, Danish and Swiss plugs. And those are just the current national standards as of 2026, ignoring anything non-standard or historic or foreign. You can't just slap some ungrounded 240V Frankenstein multi-socket on the back of a plane seat and call it a day. Hell, you can't even do that in your own house in most developed countries. That's before you even get to passengers plugging in their own $2 socket converters off eBay, half-inserted and loosely hanging off your already-lethal socket. And then these passengers wrap themselves in a synthetic blanket and go to sleep. What could go wrong. We're not talking about some CRUD web app here, where being held together by sticky tape and prayer is fine and expected. This would actually kill people. Not exactly easy to deal with a smouldering corpse in the middle seat at 30,000 feet.
- aftbit 7mo agoI bring a single high-quality large power bank whenever I travel. It's hard to reliably find power for my phone, laptop, e-reader, earbuds, gamma spectrometer, flashlight, etc while in the airport or in flight. Not every plane I end up on has reliable USB chargers. Sometimes it's handy to just plug my devices in while they're in my bag.
- kylehotchkiss 7mo ago“gamma spectrometer” lol. Do you really?
- pocksuppet 7mo agoHow else will you measure the radiation on your flight?
- analog31 7mo agoOddly enough, I was wondering: What brand? I don’t think I’d travel with one, but I’m just curious.
- mesrik 7mo agoI'm not one that he flies with gamma spectrometer. But I've had RadiaCode 103G since Dec 2024. It's pretty neat device that can be brought with you almost anywhere. https://radiacode.com/ https://radiacode.com/ It's made in Cyprus (EU) and has apparently received some EU funding. Using Google Search AI mode and asking what is CEO Sergey Shek connection with Moscow Radiological institute gave me following reply. "The connection between Sergey Shek, the founder of Radiacode (formerly Radiascan), and Moscow's radiological research centers is primarily rooted in his and his team's professional and academic history. The key points of connection are: Academic and Professional Origins: Radiacode’s founding team consists of Russian physicists and engineers who were educated and began their careers at prestigious scientific institutions in Moscow. These include researchers formerly associated with the N.N. Semenov Federal Research Center for Chemical Physics and other centers specializing in nuclear physics and spectroscopy. Early Product Development: The company's initial products, such as the Radiascan-701, were developed in Russia using the technical expertise gained at these Moscow-based institutes. The technology behind their current high-precision scintillation detectors stems from this scientific background. Relocation and Independence: Following the start of the conflict in Ukraine, the company officially rebranded as Radiacode and shifted its headquarters and operations to Cyprus and the United Kingdom. Sergey Shek and the company have sought to distance themselves from Russian state institutions to operate as a global, independent entity. Today, while the "scientific DNA" of the company originated in Moscow's radiological research environment, Radiacode operates entirely outside of Russia and focuses on the international market for hobbyists and professionals." Russian background didn't sound good to me for obvious reasons. Thus I did not install app to my daily driver phone and use a separate Android device for this app. But the device is nice and app quite good for what I've used it. Adding: You can find videos about the device from Youtube.com
- flower-giraffe 7mo agoThat is actually included in the amendment, the should seem to be a softening to allow for airline discretion for medical devices etc. ICAO Technical Instructions (Part 8, Table 8-1 amendment): “Spare batteries, including power banks: must not be recharged on board the aircraft; should not be used to charge portable electronic devices on board the aircraft; the number carried is limited to a maximum of two per person.”
- eqvinox 7mo agoContent nonwithstanding, announcing rule changes like this with immediately taking effect is just shoddy practice. At least give travellers a few weeks of heads-up.
- snowchaser 6mo agoI just use my laptop as a powerbank these days. What I typically need to charge is a phone, with way smaller capacity than my macbook. So it works pretty well now that everything has usbc.