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A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)
- shablulman 7mo ago[dead]
- dibujaleojos 7mo agoHoly cow! I thought there was going to be a list of 8 of them... There's like 40!
- Fricken 7mo agoAnd I thought the Inuit had a lot of words for snow. I wonder how many of these words a typical Japanese person can list off the top of their head.
- cthalupa 7mo agoInteresting. Some of these are big deals (particularly the ones mentioned as important) but others I have seen Japanese people in Tokyo do quite consistently. Soroebashi - not on the table, but I've seen chopsticks aligned by pushing them against the plate hundreds of time. I've also seen them used to stir miso soup, etc. plenty. Others I don't know that I would have much of an inclination to do and haven't seen but am not sure if it's because it really is a faux pas or just because no one else really tends to do it either.
- wahnfrieden 7mo agoit's like western etiquette: upper class, fine dining traditional practices are not what you'll see everyday even among polite society. the spectrum of behaviors will also depend on one's company.
- fc417fc802 7mo agoI assume this must be the case here because I'm familiar with a lot of different etiquette contexts in the US and I have the impression that Japan has far more of that sort of thing than we do. Off the top of my head there are (at minimum) the way we were expected to eat in front of my grandparents, a more "regular" dinner with the extended family, a small gathering at a tex mex joint or chain restaurant or whatever, a fast food joint, and whatever slovenly things I do while sitting on my couch in private. Anyone from a particularly wealthy family can probably add an additional couple contexts on the high end. Every single one of those situations has slightly different "rules" for what's acceptable.
- throwup238 7mo agoAnd then there’s my favorite, the southern seafood boil etiquette.
- wahnfrieden 7mo agoWe have a lot of dining etiquette too if you look into it. But it’s mostly forgotten and irrelevant high class behavior.
- nvader 7mo agoYep. Two words: _grape scissors_
- defrost 7mo agoLook here, Bridgerton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNegQyn-4N8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNegQyn-4N8
- jeffbee 7mo agoYeah? How are you supposed to line up the sticks? And stir the soup? I think the "Mawashibashi" faux pas is to whip the soup like a madman, or to aimlessly swish it, and the translated listicle doesn't convey that.
- 0x3f 7mo agoYou could surreptitiously agitate the soup as you pull out the solid contents.
- wahnfrieden 7mo agoLine them up by using your hands. It’s simple… If you must mix soup, there is a spoon, or you simply bring it to your lips and it will mix as you tilt and sip from it.
- frereubu 7mo agoI've seen those too. I was going to say that I've seen people put the bowl to their mouth and shovel food in with chopsticks, but now that I come to think about it that might well actually be from the series Tokyo Diner and Takeshi Kitano films, and may be deliberately uncouth characterisations...
- wahnfrieden 7mo agoBringing the bowl close to your mouth and picking food up from it is proper. Pushing it from the bowl into your mouth is impolite but common.
- Umofomia 7mo agoI'm under the impression this is a Chinese vs. Japanese difference. Shoveling food into your mouth is perfectly acceptable in Chinese etiquette but discouraged in Japanese. Accordingly the Japanese cook their rice to clump together so it's easier to pick up using your chopsticks so that you don't have to resort to shoveling.
- JKCalhoun 7mo agoI thought it was okay to shovel noodles, but have not heard it was okay for rice.
- thaumasiotes 7mo agoI haven't been specifically informed as to either question, but I find that idea surprising, since noodles are infinitely easier to pick up with chopsticks than rice is.
- pndy 7mo agoThere's equally complex dining and utensils etiquette in Western culture but it's largely omitted (or even unknown) on daily basis.
- chasil 7mo agoThere is a wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_utensil_etiquette https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_utensil_etiquette Edit: The wiki on chopsticks has an etiquette section broken down by country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopsticks#Chopstick_customs,_manners_and_etiquette https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopsticks#Chopstick_customs,_...
- 3eb7988a1663 7mo agoThe difference between the American and European styles has been used as plot point in fictional works, including the 1946 film O.S.S. and the 2014 series Turn: Washington's Spies.[5] In both works, using the wrong fork etiquette threatens to expose undercover agents. Nuts. Apparently I have been a German spy all this time. I don't have time to waste swapping a fork around.
- cmcaleer 7mo agoI think if you were to do an Osaka version of this, the list would be limited to maybe 4 of these (licking, chopsticks upright in rice, passing between chopsticks, and pointing esp. toward a senior would be taboo). Whereas when I had a date with a girl from Kyoto, one of the first things that happened when we went to eat was she had to stop me from picking up my chopsticks impolitely and show me the proper way of doing it. Suffice it to say my Osaka-learned table manners and speech patterns meant there was no second date.
- cthalupa 7mo agoIt's always wild to me when I hear about how different the culture is between Osaka and Kyoto when they're so close.
- cmcaleer 7mo agoI remember being blown away when I was in a Kyoto Familymart after a few months of living in Osaka after they handed me my fried chicken very delicately with both hands like it was a business card! I guess that’s the cultural divide that occurs when one community is fishing and trading while the other does, like, competitive perfumed calligraphy or whatever.
- vpribish 7mo agocompetitive perfumed calligraphic etiquette -- of your grandfathers!
- Brian_K_White 7mo agoClearly they also cook and serve fried chicken.
- anthk 7mo agoSimilar in Spain between Andalusia doing trades since forever across the whole Mediterranean Sea vs the inner provinces (the Castille-s) and the chilly Atlantic North regions with Celtic/Basque substrates.
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- rayiner 7mo agoYou also see plenty of americans put their elbows on the table.
- RHSeeger 7mo agoThe original reasons for not putting your elbows on the table (limited space, as well as some others) just don't apply anymore. There's no reason _not_ to put your elbows on the table other than "that's how it's always been done". As such, at least in my opinion, the rule no longer applies.
- testaccount28 7mo agosailors eat with their elbows on the table, to keep their fare from sliding as the boat rocks. don't look poor!
- thaumasiotes 7mo agoThat could only work as a reason to avoid the behavior if people were familiar with sailors.
- twelvedogs 7mo agoUntil you do it on a temporary table and knock over everyone's drinks
- tmatsuzaki 7mo agoI’m Japanese, but honestly, I don’t pay much attention to it. My parents used to get on me about it when I was a kid, but I still do it sometimes.
- Gigachad 7mo agoHalf of this list feels about as important as remembering the order of spoons on a table. Something that probably meant a lot 100 years ago but is mostly forgotten now.
- zdc1 7mo agoI assume this is one of those cases where if you're in the culture, you'll know which rules you're allowed to break (and when) vs if you're on the outside it's easiest to just follow all the rules all the time. Reminds me of an episode on youtube of How The British Upper Class Live | Stacey Dooley Sleeps Over where the presenter eats her eggs "wrong", much to the dismay of her posh host who tells her (in his subtle British way) that she should "sort that out".
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- hashmal 7mo agoI mean... I've consistently seen people chewing with their mouth open, talking while chewing, biting their fork, and so many others, just in occidental places, and it didn't seem to bother anyone but me. so, why would it be different in Japan?
- dfxm12 7mo agoI see lots of people do things that are commonly written off as rude too. I don't know if there is much of a monoculture around what's rude or not, if people don't care (then is it truly rude?), or maybe the writings like this are simply outdated.
- buescher 7mo agoI am reminded of the passage in Umberto Eco's _Foucault's Pendulum_ where they reconstruct a particularly wild weekend for a Templar based on the rule of the Templars and the idea that a rule exists because it's something people do.
- emursebrian 7mo agoMost of these are common sense. As a tourist foreigner, you also aren't expected to know all the customs but it's appreciated when you try. The one about which direction to NOT point the chopsticks in was new to me. If you just watch what other people are doing, then try to do the same thing, you're probably on the right track. Related to eating, one pro-tip I got from a local is that when you're ready to close your tab or get your check at a bar or restaurant, you can make a small X with your index fingers. Really useful in a busy bar!
- 0x3f 7mo ago> Most of these are common sense. A lot of them are not common sense at all. Even the 'serious' ones require cultural knowledge to understand. Only a subset of the rest would be un-ideal across cultures, which is what I would use to measure 'common sense'. It's like how in some asian cultures it's rude to bring the bowl closer to you by lifting it off the table, and in others it's the opposite. And of course there's some just-so story for why, that seems to make sense if you don't know about the opposing just-so story. Things like that aren't what I'd call common sense.
- morkalork 7mo agoA bunch of the common sense ones, like not pointing at someone with your ustensiles, are the same in western etiquette.
- Sprotch 7mo agoIt’s not western etiquette and makes no sense to me
- ahhhhnoooo 7mo agoUsing your fork, knife, or spoon to point at a person is absolutely considered rude. Gesturing with utensils likewise (because you can shower others with cast off detritus.) A quick Google search will turn up hundreds of results corroborating this.
- mjamesaustin 7mo agoI was shocked to find it's a faux pas to rub disposable chopsticks to remove potential splinters. I was taught this is what you're supposed to do with disposable chopsticks.
- WorldPeas 7mo agoright? What's the right way? I don't want splinters on the most sensitive surface in my body..
- cthalupa 7mo agoThe splinters come from where they break apart and there's not really any reason to have that part of the chopsticks touching your skin. But you move away from break apart disposable chopsticks in Japan long before you get to high etiquette dining. In my experience, basically every restaurant in Japan that isn't of, like, fast food tier, provides actual chopsticks instead of disposable ones.
- waffletower 7mo agoI had mostly disposables but they were actually lathed wood. The crude rectangular cut chopsticks are terrible -- usually not for splinters, but they often break imperfectly, leaving you with two sticks with different lengths.
- floren 7mo agoFor those cheap chopsticks, I've found the best way to break them is to grasp them at the very tips, then move your two hands away from each other briskly without twisting, just straight apart. I haven't had many break badly since I started doing this.
- fghorow 7mo ago(Mode I) So fracture mechanics does have its uses, eh?
- wagwang 7mo agoAlways interesting to see the analogs of island vs continental culture when comparing UK <-> America and Japan <-> China. Seems like islanders, due to their reliance on trade, naturally get specialized and autistic about their craft so they can have a comparative advantage, and their obsessions carry over into stuffy traditional practices.
- dugidugout 7mo agoWould you mind sharing your insight? I'd be interested to hear!
- 0x3f 7mo agoI counter with the American swap-the-fork-hand-after-you-cut thing. Diabolical.
- bigwheels 7mo agoFascinating culture and raises numerous questions arising from my subsequent confusion: 1. > 返し箸 Kaeshibashi (also known as 逆さ箸 sakasabashi) > To turn the chopsticks around when serving food so that the tips of the chopsticks that have touched one’s mouth do not touch the food. Does this mean it is preferable to use the tips that may have touched mouth to then serve more food? Or is this considered fine because it's also taboo to touch the tips to your mouth? (which only a BARBARIAN would do!) 2. > こすり箸 Kosuribashi > To rub waribashi (disposable chopsticks) together to remove splinters. Just proceed to eat some splinters, then? What is the good etiquette way to handle low quality el-cheapo chopsticks? --- I have been guilty of the above as well as: Chigiribashi - Hold one chopstick in each hand and use them like a knife and fork to tear or cut food into smaller pieces. Soroebashi - Hold chopsticks together and tap them on a dish or the top of the table to align the tips. Namidabashi - Allow sauce or soup to drip from the tips of the chopsticks when eating. Namida means “tears.” Nigiribashi - Grip both chopsticks in a fist. Neburibashi - Lick the chopsticks. Hashibashi - Place the chopsticks like a bridge across the top of a dish to show one is finished. Chopsticks should be placed on the hashioki (chopstick rest). Furibashi - Shake off soup, sauce, or small bits of food from the tips of the chopsticks. Mogibashi - Bite off and eat grains of rice that are stuck to the chopsticks. Yokobashi - Line the chopsticks up together and use them like a spoon to scoop up food. .. growing up my mom used to say, "What are you, raised by wolves!?" .. apparently, yes!
- vitus 7mo ago> Kaeshibashi The preference is to use a separate pair of communal chopsticks that is not used directly for eating. > Kosuribashi I have heard that this one is because it's considered to be an insult implying that the chopsticks are low-quality. (That said, if your chopsticks are indeed low-quality, then avoiding splinters is probably preferable to then visibly plucking splinters out of your fingers.)
- 0x3f 7mo ago> Just proceed to eat some splinters, then? What is the good etiquette way to handle low quality el-cheapo chopsticks? Well first of all the chopsticks are joined at the non-eating end, typically. So the splinters would be bothering your fingers more than anything. It's rude because it insults the host, in a way. Anywhere that would care about you doing it should not be giving you the cheap chopsticks in the first place. If you're in a place that gives you them, they probably don't care about you doing it.
- _spduchamp 7mo agoWhat a coincidence... I was just in my backyard shed playing with my robot chopstick. https://youtu.be/BhBXliscj0I https://youtu.be/BhBXliscj0I
- morkalork 7mo agoNamidabashi and Furibashi seem like a contradiction
- frereubu 7mo ago> こじ箸 Kojibashi (also known as ほじり箸 hojiribashi) > To use the chopsticks to pick something out from near the bottom of the dish. I think there must be some bits that are lost in translation for some of these. This makes it sound like you can't eat all of the food in a bowl with your chopsticks.
- FartyMcFarter 7mo agoMaybe it means that you're digging up food that is under other food?
- bigwheels 7mo agoIt's like core-ing out the goody bits from an otherwise bland pint of ice cream. Who would ever do such a disgusting and selfish thing? :-0
- herewulf 7mo agoWho would mine the creamy bit from a wheel of brie and leave the hard rind behind?!?!
- frereubu 7mo agoYeah, could be - that's kind of what I mean in terms of being lost in translation. It feels like there's missing information / context in quite a few of them. Edit: In fact I think you're completely right - "picking out" something near the bottom of the dish does suggest that.
- univerio 7mo agoI think just written in an ambiguous way: "dish" here refers to the food contained in the vessel and not the vessel itself.
- themaninthedark 7mo agoLet me check but I think it refers to a shared dish; at an izakaiya you often order a bunch of shared food plates and then serve yourself from them. It is definitely rude to use chopsticks that you just put in your mouth to go rooting around for something in those. You are supposed to take from the top and ideally turn them around using the back end. Some people frown on using the back ends however as it may have been touched by your hand... Edit add: It means to dig food out, either from your own dish or a shared one. Like mixing the food up to look for something you like in it.
- waffletower 7mo agoI lived in Japan for nearly 6 years and found that concern for faux pas such as these for hashi (chopsticks) are way way overblown. I used at least one thousand disposable pairs of chopsticks in Japan and never had the desire to smooth them -- they are higher quality than Panda Express offerings. I knew about this "taboo" prior to arrival and it was simply irrelevant. Avoid the obvious symbolic references to makura gohan (bowl of rice offering to the deceased) at the end of your meal and you are probably golden. If you have kids in Japan, gaijin passing food with chopsticks to their children in a restaurant is going to be seen in a neutral or even sympathetic light. The Japanese may silently judge but they rarely sneer or harass. If you spend a lot of time with modern Japanese families you might be surprised to discover Western stereotypes of Japanese taboos are sometimes outdated and even incorrect. They are very aware that foreigners will not understand all of their customs, and many of those customs have decreasing importance as their culture evolves.
- decimalenough 7mo agoPassing food by placing it directly on someone else's plate or bowl is fine. The taboo is specifically about two people holding onto the same thing at the same tine with chopsticks, the way cremated bone fragments are placed into the urn at kotsuage. Other than that, I agree. It's kind of like trying to apply Emily Post's etiquette to TV dinners: many of these "rules" would be viewed as prissy by Japanese and some (eg. giving your miso soup a swirl with your chopsticks before drinking) are very, very commonly ignored.
- fsckboy 7mo ago>holding onto the same thing at the same tine i see what you did there
- waffletower 7mo agoSwirling wasabi into tsuyu (zarusoba broth) with chopsticks is an actual custom, it isn't a faux pas. Some of these "rules" are simply wrong.
- dekhn 7mo ago
- AftHurrahWinch 7mo agoPhew, I'm glad "inserting them into your nostrils and braying like a walrus" isn't on the list.
- ngruhn 7mo agowaruburashi
- underlipton 7mo agoodobashi?
- vpribish 7mo agoSNORT
- sudo_cowsay 7mo agosacrilegious lol
- minikomi 7mo agoI think it's number 9 in the list
- mmooss 7mo ago> To place one’s mouth against the side of a dish and push food in with the chopsticks. I've seen people eat noodles and broth (e.g., ramen) like that a million times? What am I missing? How do you properly eat noodles and broth?
- waffletower 7mo agoThat taboo is simply wrong in many contexts. Watch Tampopo after reading this and it can correct for a lot.
- triceratops 7mo agoSlurp the noodles and drink the broth?
- decimalenough 7mo agoIt's not a taboo, it's just not considered good manners in formal contexts. But it's fast and efficient, which is why people do it anyway.
- perdomon 7mo agoSome of these sound just as made-up as a lot of Western dining "rules." Maybe someone more familiar with the culture can say whether or not these are true faux pas in an everyday ramen shop or similar.
- wahnfrieden 7mo agoThey’re not fake but some are not followed by everyone outside of formal situations
- galangalalgol 7mo agoI always do the splinter thing. I thought that was normal. If the place has disposable chopsticks it isn't the sort of place etiquette matters is it?
- dbcurtis 7mo agohe he... is that the equivalent of when I was a kid we differentiated by "drive-in", "paper-napkin restaurant" and "cloth-napkin restaurant" in order of how much trouble you would be in if you embarrassed your parents.
- kdheiwns 7mo agoEven expensive restaurants in Japan use disposable chopsticks. And you only get splinters on your chopsticks because you're rubbing them in your hands and making pieces break off. In all my decades of using chopsticks, I've never had a splinter poke me. But I've seen people rub their chopsticks then complain about splinters.
- galangalalgol 7mo agoThere are the ones that are partly rounded and only attached for a cm or so at the top. They are fine. Then there are the square ones that are attached for half or more of the length and don't always break apart cleanly. They have never poked me, but they have shed bits into my food before that I had to pick out. I will stop cleaning up the ones that don't actually need it. I didn't realize it was offensive.
- unsignedint 7mo agoThe article does a good job calling out the more serious offenses, although I’d personally argue that nigiribashi is just as bad as the other two. Most Japanese people would probably react with a bit of shock to those. That said, chopstick etiquette is definitely evolving. Something like chobujubashi isn’t enforced as strictly anymore, especially with more awareness around left-handed users. Kaeshibashi, on the other hand, is becoming more common, and in some social circles, not doing it can actually come across as rude.
- bikesharing 7mo ago[dead]
- Sprotch 7mo ago[flagged]
- helterskelter 7mo ago> Kaeshibashi, on the other hand, is becoming more common, and in some social circles, not doing it can actually come across as rude. I was always under the impression this was the polite thing to do.
- b0rtb0rt 7mo agoi think it depends on the setting, when eating with family at their house they’ve told me not to do it
- B1FF_PSUVM 7mo agoThat one puzzled me, probably makes sense if there are "serving chopsticks": """ Jikabashi To use one’s own chopsticks instead of serving chopsticks to take food from a large serving dish. """
- hatthew 7mo agoI'm curious for a native's opinion on how important these are. The etiquette I was taught growing up in the US is a mix of: - several things that are often quoted as good etiquette but nobody follows (elbows off the table, correct order of dishes) - lots of things that are customary but nobody cares if you don't follow it (napkin on lap, placement of silverware) - only a few things that actually matter and would be considered rude by normal people (don't touch shared food with used silverware, keep your mouth closed while chewing) Of these several dozen "rules" for chopsticks, how many actually fall into the last category of things that actually matter?
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- cthalupa 7mo agoHonestly, I don't even really see 'don't touch shared food with used silverware' followed if a place doesn't provide specific serving utensils.
- hatthew 7mo agoYeah it's a pretty flexible rule, but it's at least something to think about, unlike a lot of other "rules" that you're allowed to completely disregard for your entire life. I probably was too strict in describing that last bullet point.
- jwrallie 7mo agoPeople told me to avoid placing chopsticks upwards in a bowl before I even went to Japan so that is the only one I’d keep in mind. Given how many of these are clever tricks that I learned from seeing Japanese people eat, like aligning the chopsticks quickly in a plate or cleaning waribashi from splinters by rubbing them together, I’d not take all of these seriously, but it’s cool to know nonetheless.
- usagisushi 7mo agoNative here. I'd say only about 6 out of the 47 listed actually matter (Awasebashi, Urabashi, Kamibashi, Jikabashi, Tatebashi, and Neburibashi). Most of these are only for formal settings. Honestly, I haven't even heard of some of them. Aside from Tatebashi (sticking chopsticks in rice), they’re mostly avoided for hygiene reasons. As for Nigiribashi (clutching them in a fist), it just looks a bit strange for an adult to do.
- midtake 7mo ago> こすり箸 Kosuribashi > To rub waribashi (disposable chopsticks) together to remove splinters. Stopped reading there. If you're handing me crappy chopsticks to eat with I am rubbing them together first.
- weedhopper 7mo agoExactly, too many times have i heard from some snob not to rub them, who later had to pull a splinter out of their finger.
- mijoharas 7mo agoFor anyone else curious after reading "-bashi" 40 times: (Not gonna direct quote because the damn site doesn't allow copy-pasting so they don't get a link, paraphrased): Kirai-bashi would be literally translated to "dislike-chopsticks" and means bad chopstick table-manners. Hashi is chopsticks and bashi is the voiced form of it. So the bashi suffix/word on the end of all of these just means chopsticks it seems.
- refactor_master 7mo agoTo add to this, voicing is also a way for Japanese words to become more “coherent”, the same way you write “dislike-chopsticks” as one combined noun, and not “dislike chopsticks”.
- adrian_b 7mo agoSomeone downvoted this, but the poster is correct, so there was absolutely no reason for downvoting. Rendaku, i.e. the voicing of the initial consonant, happens in the native Japanese words (i.e. not in the Japanese words of Chinese origin), in most cases when they are a part of a compound word and they are not the initial word. This serves indeed to distinguish a sequence of unrelated words from a compound word. There are exceptions when rendaku does not happen, but typically whenever a word like hashi becomes a part of a compound word it will be voiced to -bashi. "H" is a special case among the consonants, because in old Japanese it was pronounced as "p", which is why it is voiced as "b". Later, in initial positions the pronunciation was changed to "f" and even later the pronunciation was changed to "h". The "f" pronunciation has been retained only before "u", like in Fuji. In non initial positions, the original "p" has become later "v" and even later "w". These pronunciation changes happened after the creation of the hiragana and katakana syllabaries, so they were not reflected in writing. The orthographic reform that was forced after WWII has brought the written form of the words closer to the pronunciation, e.g. by writing consistently "w" where it is pronounced so. Before WWII, many words written now with "-wa-" were still written with "-ha-", a spelling that has been preserved now only in the particle "wa" (like the spelling corresponding to the old pronunciation "wo" has been preserved for the particle "o"). While the Japanese orthographic reform had some positive effects, in simplifying a little the Japanese writing, it also had the effect that for someone who knows only the modern written Japanese it is difficult to read the Japanese books published before WWII, where many different kanji are used and also their hiragana transcriptions are different. I assume that this was actually an effect intended by the American occupation forces, as a similar policy was applied by the Russians in all the territories of the Soviet Union (except the Baltic countries), where they forced the native populations to change their writing systems to the Cyrillic alphabet, in order to make difficult for the younger generations to read anything dating from before the Russian occupation.
- twodave 7mo agoGlad to know I haven’t picked up any seriously bad habits, but how the heck do you keep the chopsticks aligned without tapping them somewhere? Most of these seem related to health/sanitary practices/being considerate more than anything. Just avoiding contaminating what others are going to eat with your own utensils is an easy way to describe several of them.
- cthalupa 7mo agoYou can just slide them with your fingers, even one handed, and it's not like they need to be perfectly aligned. But, yeah, I tap them to align them all the time, have seen Japanese people do it day in and day out. I've even done it in some fine dining places in Japan. No one yelled at me, but I am a gaijin, so...
- koolba 7mo ago> 移り箸 Utsuribashi (also known as 渡り箸 wataribashi) > To keep putting the chopsticks into the same side dishes. It is proper etiquette to first eat rice, move on to eat from a side dish, eat rice again, and then eat from a different side dish. So keto itself is a faux pas? > 返し箸 Kaeshibashi (also known as 逆さ箸 sakasabashi) > To turn the chopsticks around when serving food so that the tips of the chopsticks that have touched one’s mouth do not touch the food. Ewww. I’d rather be rude than share germs.
- tmathmeyer 7mo ago>> To turn the chopsticks around when serving food so that the tips of the chopsticks that have touched one’s mouth do not touch the food. > Ewww. I’d rather be rude than share germs. I think this means you should use something other than your chopsticks to share food, and not just assume that "the back of my chopsticks are germ-free, I'll use that"
- wahnfrieden 7mo agoKeto diet doesn’t exist in Japanese cuisine. If you’re going to a keto friendly place, it’s something trendy and contemporary so this traditional advice obviously doesn’t apply. It is not a faux-pas to eat non traditional / non Japanese cuisine.
- sneak 7mo agoKeto diet doesn’t exist in western cuisine either. It’s a niche thing in both places, and both places have specific single dishes without carbs.
- jwrallie 7mo agoYou will quickly learn the first one because if you keep eating the delicious side dishes you will be only left with large amounts of bland rice to eat last.
- laughing_man 7mo agoIt would be pretty irritating if someone in your dinner party ate the lion's share of the more flavorful food and left the rice for everyone else.
- e-dant 7mo agoSome of these I’ve been told are taboos in the opposite way. For example, the one about serving or taking food from the opposite end of the chopsticks, I was told, is polite. But here they say it is taboo. Maybe they meant it’s taboo not to do that?
- sneak 7mo agoYes, it’s weirdly ambiguous. But even that is performative, as you’re still using an unsanitary part - the part that has touched your hand vs the part that has touched your lips.
- jd24 7mo agoYou do NOT want to use the opposite side of the chopstick. If you use chopsticks correctly, you shouldn't be touching other food you don't intend to take. Also if you are with company that you're close with people care less about you touching the food, but otherwise you'll want to use a serving utensil.
- steanne 7mo agois there a word for using them as hairsticks?
- fsckboy 7mo ago"kawai"
- kazinator 7mo agoIf they serve me slop with only a few good bits, I'm doing saguribashi.
- zippyman55 7mo agoI have always wondered when I used the pair of chopsticks to push food on my fork, if there was a name for my type.
- rayiner 7mo agoI love how they have words for the different kinds of rule breaking. Truly civilized people.
- osti 7mo agoMore like oppressed people by all those bs rules.
- rayiner 7mo agoThe only thing being “oppressed” are people’s animal instincts to be disorderly.
- osti 7mo agoThere's a fine line between making ppl civilized and fascism-like level of control. And I believe Japan errs on the other side too much with their ridiculous number of such rules in all areas of life. Even though I recently visited Japan, I can't really speak to how happy they are, but the stereotype is that they are not the happiest ppl out there. I believe their obedience to all such societal rules has a role in it.
- fumeux_fume 7mo agoMy heart is lightened to learn inserting the chopsticks into your mouth to make walrus fangs is not taboo.
- RIMR 7mo agoI'm betting Kuwaebashi covers that.
- anilakar 7mo agoIt actually prohibits holding the chopsticks in your mouth. You have a chopstick rest (and workarounds) for that. Just like the next term on the list does not prohibit eating food on the bottom but rather digging into the bowl instead of eating in top down order.
- shermantanktop 7mo agoDon’t go to Chinese food with a drummer. It’s just maddening.
- 7bit 7mo agoIt actually is tradition
- mmsc 7mo agoこすり箸 Kosuribashi: To rub waribashi (disposable chopsticks) together to remove splinters. I don't know about Japan, but everybody does this in Taiwan.
- musicale 7mo agoSandpaper and dremel aren't on the forbidden list yet.
- Shank 7mo ago> I don't know about Japan It is definitely not appropriate. If you break the chop sticks and use them correctly your fingers will never touch the surface where there are splinters.
- bitwank 7mo agoI always do it under the table; something I instinctively do without ever being told to. Now I wonder if I might have picked up on nonverbal cues at some point in the past. If I were someplace where chopsticks were the norm, I would probably just carry my own as I find the disposable wooden ones very off putting. I have to wonder if there is a rule about using your own chopsticks though.
- georgefrowny 7mo agoChobukubashi would make being left-handed decidedly annoying.
- musicale 7mo agoOn the other hand (so to speak), European style (fork stays in left hand) is great for left-handers.
- angry_octet 7mo agoNo? Because you use the knife in your dominant hand.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- vunderba 7mo agoWhen I first moved to Taiwan and was just getting a handle on Chinese, I asked a waiter "請給我一個筷子" - not yet being familiar with proper measure words. The waiter (who had a bit of a sense of humor) brought me exactly ONE chopstick. I laughed and repeated 請給我另一個筷子 (Please give me another chopstick) and he brought out another one. Of course later my friend told me that I should have used 雙 to indicate I wanted a "pair" of chopsticks.
- thaumasiotes 7mo ago> Of course later my friend told me that I should have used 雙 to indicate I wanted a "pair" of chopsticks. That's hard to guess. There are three common measure words meaning "pair"; 副 is for "pairs" that are connected, like a "pair" of scissors in English, but 双 and 对 are basically identical in significance as far as I know. > The waiter (who had a bit of a sense of humor) brought me exactly ONE chopstick. Slightly unfair, since 一个筷子, beyond being semantically anomalous, is more or less ungrammatical too. If you actually wanted one chopstick, you'd say 一只筷子. What kind of path did you take that taught you how to say 另一个 before you learned about measure words?
- vunderba 7mo agoI think they were just poking a bit of good natured fun at me. Many foreigners new to Chinese just kind of blindly use 個 for everything when they're starting out. > What kind of path did you take that taught you how to say 另一个 before you learned about measure words? The self-taught kind. :)
- Umofomia 7mo ago> That's hard to guess. There are three common measure words meaning "pair" [...] > If you actually wanted one chopstick, you'd say 一只筷子. Traditional Chinese script versions of Simplified 只 and 双 actually make this more apparent, where they would be 隻 and 雙, which are pictograms illustrating one and two birds in a hand, respectively.
- rendaw 7mo agoHashibashi - does this mean it's okay to place the chopsticks across the top if it's not to show you're finished? I heard that was okay as long as you align them not to point at another person (not across the table). If there's no chopstick rest I'm not sure where else you're supposed to put your chopsticks. Also I'm not sure how you're supposed to eat e.g. fried rice without yokobashi or kakibashi. Also! I thought kaeshibashi was a good thing. I've definitely seen people do that at parties.
- K0balt 7mo agoYokobashi bros! Fist bump.
- ricardobeat 7mo agoI think you’re supposed to eat fried rice with a spoon :)
- rendaw 7mo agoRight, forgot about that! Although I feel like I've definitely been in situations where there were no spoons (izakaya... maybe)
- Arch485 7mo agoI'm curious about Hashibashi as well. I've seen lots of Japanese people doing it, and now I'm worried I look like a total poser from copying them.
- econ 7mo agoI once see someone's chopsticks taken away from them and replaced with a knife and fork. I've always wondered what they did wrong. Now I see they probably covered half this list. Haha
- locusofself 7mo agoI did this once and was scolded by my date: !!! (Serious) To stand chopsticks upright in a bowl of rice. This is taboo, as it is the way rice is presented as a Buddhist funeral offering.
- JasonADrury 7mo agoIt would also be completely inappropriate if you did that with a fork or a knife.
- daemonologist 7mo agoDid you also play Thrice today? (This was one of the daily questions.)
- choonway 7mo agoas a lifelong chopstick user, this article is for one of those fault finding crazies. hold the chopstick however you like. so long as you don’t drop things unintentionally it’s fine.
- tempodox 7mo agoHighly instructive, and some quite surprising to me as a gaijin. > To take the tips of the chopsticks in one’s mouth. Sometimes I'm having a hard time avoiding that. Apparently I need more practice.
- derefr 7mo agoI think that one refers to doing so when there is no food on the chopsticks. Picture tapping the chopsticks against your lips to show you’re thinking, if conversing while eating. The overarching rule being that you should put the chopsticks down whenever you’re not in the middle of picking up/moving food with them. (Unless you want to come off as imitating a Rakugo storyteller. If you do, then go ahead and use them as a talking prop. But maybe make it clear that you’re not eating with those ones, so people don’t worry you’ll flick sauce at them!)
- nvader 7mo ago> To turn the chopsticks around when serving food so that the tips of the chopsticks that have touched one’s mouth do not touch the food. Huh, this is something that I did consistently, believing it to be good etiquette.
- perlgeek 7mo agoSomewhere on the page they mentioned that there are separate serving chopsticks. Turning the eating chopsticks around is probably more normal when there aren't separate ones.
- tomcam 7mo agoI married an Asian woman I met at work. Our boss called me in to ask if I was serious about marrying her and I said yes. He asked if I wanted any advice and I sincerely answered that I did. Our marriage was necessarily disruptive because it meant that she would also defect. That would cause problems up and down the management chain. His advice was for me to learn how to use chopsticks. that’s it. Nothing else. I spent months learning how to use them properly in secret and finally deployed my skills when I thought I was pretty good. She didn’t notice. I then realized she almost always used a fork. In high school and college their meals were always served hastily and the students always brought a fork or spoon. they would eat standing up and had maybe five minutes to get the job done. No time for chopsticks. When her parents came out to visit us after we got married I frantically asked her advice about good chopstick etiquette. I very much did not wish to cause her to lose face. She didn’t give a flying fuck. I honestly think I married one of the freest spirits in Asia, which is not necessarily a compliment. She said I was doing fine and literally refused to give me any feedback at all, incorrectly claiming she wasn’t even that good. In fact, I think she only started to resume using chopsticks because I ended up finding them useful and now far prefer them to silverware. I ended up having to learn most of the customs by watching people in restaurants. Just learning how to set them down right took additional months because I noticed far too late that they set their chopsticks down in a sort of V shape which is much harder than one might expect. Also, I am left-handed, but taught myself to do it right handed on the theory of that would also help me not lose face in front of the in-laws. It turns out they are also highly unconventional and probably didn’t care about my chopstick use one way or the other. When we had kids, I would learn that Asian children who don’t learn to use chopsticks represent another way to lose face. It results in titanic power struggles within the family and makes everyone miserable. It’s a little like forcing kids here in the USA to eat their vegetables. By this time I had learned of her disinterest, so neither of us bothered to teach them. All of our children naturally picked it up with no apparent effort, including one who is very severely developmentally disabled.
- alisonatwork 7mo agoI feel like a lot of this is culture and class specific. I can't speak for Japan, but in China there are at least as many different levels of chopstick-using skill as anywhere in the west. Kids and elderly who can't pick up a peanut or a cherry tomato, people who find it entirely unproblematic to stab a slippery dumpling, people who think it's stupid to waste time trying to get fried rice into your mouth with chopsticks and just grab a spoon instead, people who dredge their way through the hotpot to find the treat they're looking for... I often get the sense that foreigners getting stressed about (or feeling pride in) how well they use chopsticks is a weird kind of orientalism. Because, like, who cares if someone shows up in a western restaurant and uses a spoon instead of knife to saw through something, or grabs a big hunk with a fork and takes a bite, leaving the rest on the fork? Maybe you wouldn't do it if you were having dinner with the queen, but any other context nobody cares. I'm sure parents still try to teach their kids to eat polite way, and maybe even feel a bit embarrassed if their kids show themselves to be less well-behaved than the neighbors', but that's a universal thing so, eh.
- zeristor 7mo agoThis raises the question of what are the funeral rites. They piece through the ashes of a cremation and pass them between each other? I know the modern style of conveyor belt cremation is a bit impersonal. It’ll take me a while to process this.
- globular-toast 7mo agoMy partner and I share everything we eat. I think we have passed food between chopsticks before. What's the "proper" way to do this? Just reach in to the other bowl? Also wondering how many of these apply in a Chinese setting or any other chopstick culture. Are there a different set of taboos?
- yubblegum 7mo agoRelated? https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h02713/japan-ranks-last-for-love-life-satisfaction-for-fourth-straight-year.html https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h02713/japan-ranks-last...
- nssnsjsjsjs 7mo agoCouple of funeral related ones, couple of odd customs, and the rest are "imagine what an overbearing parent would say to their 6 yo using chopsticks"
- commanderj 7mo agoWould it not have been easier to just write down what is actually "allowed" :D
- zkmon 7mo ago> Kuwaebashi - To take the tips of the chopsticks in one’s mouth. Does it mean without food?
- anonu 7mo agoThis would make a great poster to give to our local sushi bar chef/friend. edit: Gemini makes great infographics https://imgur.com/a/V2D9VlM https://imgur.com/a/V2D9VlM
- Hasnep 7mo agoExcept a bunch of those diagrams are showing the wrong thing, but yeah, other than that it's good.
- kristianc 7mo agoYeah, definitely not the "straight in" one...
- october8140 7mo agoThis is why Japan is not having kids. They are more worried about rules to make everyone’s life miserable.
- Hasnep 7mo agoSure, and American table manners are the cause of rising fascism, there's a whole Wikipedia article on all their rules. [1] They're more worried about elbows on the table than the increase in authoritarianism. See, I can make up dumb shit too. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_manners_in_North_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_manners_in_North_America
- renewiltord 7mo agoBoth of you are now eligible for sociology PhDs. Congratulations, doctors, on having defended your theses.
- mark_l_watson 7mo agoFairly much common sense advice, with some cultural taboos like resting chopsticks pointing to the right. I have always been a little embarrassed by my own use of chopsticks. When I was three or four years old a waitress in a Chinese restaurant helped me figure out a way to hold them that worked for me. Long story short, I am in my 70s and I have very effectively been getting food efficiently into my mouth with chopsticks my whole life - with horrible style.
- ghaff 7mo agoThe chopstick against the knuckle doesn’t work for me I use the fingertip.
- K0balt 7mo agoI am a yokobashi offender. How rude is it? When the food is not well prepared for chopsticks it’s really useful. But I do see why it’s rude, because it does imply that the food is not quite right. The Chinese restaurants in my country seem to have a problem making properly sticky rice.
- bagacrap 7mo agoDoes it bother anyone else when people use their teeth to scrape food off a metal utensil (rather than lips, or teeth to food)? I wish English had a specific word for that affront.
- cake-rusk 7mo agoCringe?
- bakies 7mo agoBiting a fork is a huge pet peeve of mine.
- PyWoody 7mo agoI'm so glad I'm not the only one who gets annoyed by this. I was once at a table with someone who was eating tomato soup by putting the spoon into their mouth, bitting it, and then pulling the spoon out. I was losing my mind listening to it. Dip, ting, dip, ting. Dip, OUCH!. They chipped their tooth. They chipped a tooth eating tomato soup.
- lijok 7mo agoAre these real or nonsensical ones like crossing the fork and knife on your plate means you didn’t enjoy it
- VoodooJuJu 7mo ago[dead]
- rdiddly 7mo agoOK, I was probably never going to visit Japan, and this convinced me the rest of the way.
- RestartKernel 7mo agoThat's like avoiding the West because of fancy cutlery rules. Japanese people are not as thin-skinned as lists like these lead you to believe.
- falsemyrmidon 7mo agoThe two about death are the only ones that matter. You also get a huge pass on a lot of social expectations for being a foreigner, especially if you make even a small attempt to conform and be polite.
- untrust 7mo agoTechnically in the USA: It is impolite to begin eating without first washing your hands, rest your elbows on the table, chew with your mouth open, double dip in shared dishes, leave your napkin on the table, and also all sorts of rules about which spoon to use when. None of these rules are followed by your average American and nobody really cares, I imagine it's similar to these.
- bigstrat2003 7mo agoI would certainly hope most people are not double dipping in shared dishes. That shit is gross, yo.
- xandrius 7mo agoAnd that's totally fine :)
- canjobear 7mo agoThe fact that this was originally written in Japanese suggests that most Japanese people don't already know this list.
- angry_octet 7mo agoIt really doesn't. Listicles are as common in Japan as elsewhere.
- failrate 7mo agoSome of these are considered rude, but ibd I do a lot of them, anyway e.g. rubbing disposable chopsticks to remove splinters, because a chopstick splinter in the gums is miserable, and using chopsticks to cut apart food. They seem less like faux pas and more like strategies. Plus, not Japanese.
- lacoolj 7mo agoSo it's the age of AI. And this seems like a great new benchmark! Lots of text, structured but each item a separate "task". Each thing requiring its own new image + textual representation. I copy + pasted the whole article (minus the few included images) and added this prompt in Gemini 3 Pro: > Take each of the following and add an image representing the act being described. The image should be very basic. Think of signs in buildings - exit signs, bathroom door signs, no smoking signs, etc. That style of simplicity. Just simple, flat, elegant vector graphic lines for the chopsticks, hands, bowls, etc. Google Gemini output: https://gemini.google.com/share/11df1bc53e3d https://gemini.google.com/share/11df1bc53e3d I think this is pretty dang good for a one-shot run. I also ran this through Claude Opus 4.6 Extended (doesn't generate images directly, so it made an HTML page and some vector icons). Not as good as Gemini IMO. See here if curious: https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/8b6589b3-4da4-4fd5-b862-c1dad5d62955 https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/8b6589b3-4da4-4fd5-b862-c... Anyone able to do this better with a different prompt or model (or both)?
- xandrius 7mo agoNice that you discovered LLM, welcome. But next time, keep your findings for a thread related to the topic of LLM wonders, not when it's unrelated, such as chopsticks.
- kwar13 7mo ago> 押し込み箸 Oshikomibashi (also known as 込み箸 komibashi) > To use the chopsticks to push food deep inside one’s mouth. That made me chuckle
- xandrius 7mo agoSheeet, seen quite a few people do it (not sure if Japanese or another culture) and just ingrained it as proper (just like slurping is in Japan). Gotta rethink that, lol.
- eloisant 7mo agoThere are only 2 that really matter, those marked with "serious" because they remind of funeral rites (passing food from chopsticks to chopsticks or sticking them in rice). Japanese people will tell you about those because they really don't like seeing people do it. The rest, well, don't worry about it.
- gwbas1c 7mo agoMost of those faux pas come across as neurotic, like complaining about people who park too close to the lines, or complaining about someone farting in church. Seems like someone could make a sketch comedy skit where someone does these faux pas, and most people don't notice except the one person who has a perpetual wedgie.
- stunnAR 7mo ago[dead]
- jagged-chisel 7mo ago> To raise the tips of the chopsticks higher than the back of one’s hand. Not doing this is just going to be awkward. I have food between the chopsticks, and I'm rotating my hand to place the food in my mouth and the tips will become higher than the back of my hand. Otherwise will commit agebashi.
- austinjp 7mo agoWell, how about you lower your head below your hand and twist your neck to bring your mouth level with the chopsticks?