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This is such a weird comment. Why do you think that "ethical vegans" like the "taste of plants" any more than anyone else? The whole point of being an ethical

by lambda 7mo ago

This is such a weird comment. Why do you think that "ethical vegans" like the "taste of plants" any more than anyone else? The whole point of being an ethical vegan/vegetarian is to not consume animals, not because you don't like the taste. Health conscious folks would definitely choose these over hamburgers. Sure, they're not perfect from a health food point of view, but they're lower in sodium and saturated fat than your average hamburger patty. So from a health conscious point of view, it's a decent substitute. Then there are the people who just want to reduce their meat consumption overall. Maybe they're not vegan or vegetarian, but they're trying to watch their saturated fat intake, or reduce their carbon impact, or they suffer from gout and are trying to reduce the amount of meat they eat to ease that. Sometimes you just want to go out with your friends for a burger, and the Beyond patty can make a better substitute than a black bean or mushroom patty that used to be common. And at most restaurants, I've never noticed a "premium" for it, it usually costs the same as a beef patty; it just provides another option, for the days I want to skip meat. I have, for a long time, done a low meat diet; I don't avoid it entirely, but I try not to eat it at every meal. It provides a nice alternative for that. Is it a bit of a niche market? Sure. But, not every product needs to be for everyone.

Klonoar 7mo ago
Nah, it definitely costs extra at restaurants.
afavour 7mo ago
> And at most restaurants, I've never noticed a "premium" for it I just did a quick search on Uber Eats in NYC. Every Beyond Burger I found was between $3-5 more than a regular burger. That’s the reason I stopped eating them, I actually quite like the texture and flavor. I just don’t like the price.
- fosco 7mo ago
  I never buy beyond/impossible at restaurants because of this. I often have some at home and instead of having two red meat burgers have one and one of these, occasionally when they go on sale at Costco I’ll buy a bunch. I am not vegan or vegetarian but do seek ways to reduce my red meat intake which years ago was grilling ribeyes 4-5 nights a week. I was unreasonably unhealthy and having alternate options helped balance my health out over the long run. I like both beyond burgers and impossible. I wish they were cheaper than hamburger meat, when I compare to buying hamburger meat in bulk it’s still more expensive at this point
- xvector 7mo ago
  Eh I just decided that $3-5 extra is fine for not causing immense amounts of physical suffering to some poor animal for my burger meal.
  - slashdev 7mo ago
    So you've decided it's more ethical it not be born or live at all. Obviously the only reason beef cattle exist at all is because we eat them. It doesn't seem such a clear cut ethical decision to me. Certainly there are some forms of raising livestock that are terrible (broiler chickens come to mind), but there are other forms that actually seem quite pleasant for the animals most of the time (e.g. free-range cattle).
    - xvector 7mo ago
      Free-range isn't pleasant at all, that's a fair bit of clever marketing. It's virtually impossible to find meat that has lived a "pleasant" life and slaughter. I'd eat meat myself if I could find a reliable and cost effective source of ethical farming. https://www.dominionmovement.com/facts https://www.dominionmovement.com/facts - Ctrl-F "free range"
      - slashdev 7mo ago
        It varies quite a lot. You actually could find a reliable and cost effective source of ethical ranching, it typically requires buying e.g. a whole side of beef from a specific ranch. Not very convenient, but if you worry so much about the conditions of the animal, that gives you a way to choose one that fits your standards.
- leethargo 7mo ago
  Interesting. At Burger King in Germany, there's no such difference, last time I checked.
thesis 7mo ago
FYI most beyond burgers have more in sodium not less and beyond uses coconut oil which is still fairly high in saturated fat. If those 2 things are your barometer for healthy… it’s not a clear win.
- watermelon0 7mo ago
  Seems like they switched to avocado oil recently: > Water, Yellow Pea Protein*, Avocado Oil, Natural Flavors, Brown Rice Protein, Red Lentil Protein, 2% or less of Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Pea Starch, Potassium Lactate (to preserve freshness), Faba Bean Protein, Apple Extract, Pomegranate Concentrate, Potassium Salt, Spice, Vinegar, Vegetable Juice Color (with Beet). From: https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/products/the-beyond-burger https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/products/the-beyond-burger
firebot 7mo ago
[flagged]
- firebot 7mo ago
  Just so you're aware. A cow releases maybe about 50 kg of methane a year. An average human releases about 20 tons if they're in a first world nation or maybe 4 tons if they're living in the middle of fucking nowhere.
lithocarpus 7mo ago
Beyond Burger ingredients: Yellow Pea Protein, Avocado Oil, Natural Flavors, Brown Rice Protein, Red Lentil Protein, 2% or less of Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Pea Starch, Potassium Lactate (to preserve freshness), Faba Bean Protein, Apple Extract, Pomegranate Concentrate, Potassium Salt, Spice, Vinegar, Vegetable Juice Color (with Beet). Except for Vinegar, every one of these is an industrially processed/extracted/refined ingredient that humans never ate until within the last ~50 years. We have no way to even know if many of these are safe let alone healthy. I don't know of any evidence that these things are a decent substitute for meat and salt which humans have been eating for our entire history. And for those who actually believe animal fat and salt are unhealthy one could make burgers with lean meat and less or no salt.
- viccis 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - haraldooo 7mo ago
    I‘m eating plant based meats regularly but I guess we all know how e.g. trans fats, high fructose corn sirup and probably more were once considered safe and are certainly not anymore
  - djtango 7mo ago
    As someone who is very cautious about health and nutrition and spent 4 years studying Chemistry at a good university, my takeaway at the time of graduation was more aligned with your caricature as a better prior and heuristic for judging consumable foods. I remember being told an anecdote that left me feeling humble about just how much of the body we understand: there were cases where the kinetic isotope effect could affect biochemistry, that was how sensitive our systems are and that industrial synthesis will definitely produce different isotopic ratios to natural synthesis. My conviction on this subject has continued to strengthen with articles like [1] on emulsifiers recently entering public awareness. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/c5y548258q9o https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/c5y548258q9o EDIT: grammatical cleanup
  - californical 7mo ago
ehnto 7mo ago
I'm a bit of a fence sitter so I might actually be their target market. Very athletic, a bit health concious but not crazy about it in regards to diet. If I am eating out, usually my macros are not a big part of decision making. If there is a meatless option that might actually be good for a bit of a fibre boost, considering all the other protein I am intaking. It's important to remember also that not athletic individuals are high achieving bodybuilders with super strict macro diets. Most other sports only require a moderate attention to diet, especially at an amateur level. Bodybuilding is very diet focused, rather than strength and skill focused.
- eeixlk 7mo ago
  Like all burgers this is a high protein, low fiber food option. It probably has more in common with your protein shake, being high in pea and other proteins but also has a high amount of sodium. This is a splurge food like any burger is. If you are looking for fiber, vegetables have them. Also impossible burgers taste better as they smell like coconuts instead of peas when they are cooked.
xdennis 7mo ago
> Health conscious folks would definitely choose these over hamburgers. I seriously doubt that health-conscious people would pick hyper-processed plants that are meant to resemble meat over plain meat+bread+vegetables that make up a non-fast-food hamburger.
rcakebread 7mo ago
"they're lower in sodium and saturated fat than your average hamburger patty" If you buy a Beyond patty, it has way more sodium than ground beef you'd buy at a grocerty store. Comparing it with a fast food burger isn't really fair.
- kulahan 7mo ago
  Not really - every single Burger King out there sells the beyond burger as far as I've seen.
  - messe 7mo ago
    If they're selling in a supermarket, it's more than fair to compare them to those offerings. Who's buying Burger King more than grocery shopping?
    - AlecSchueler 7mo ago
      I've eaten maybe 5 burgers at home in my 35 years but I've eaten plenty more at fast food restaurants.
      - messe 7mo ago
        And I've eaten far more at home than out in my 29. It's really not that common to eat out that often where I live.
        AlecSchueler 7mo ago
        That's fine. You asked "Who's buying Burger King more than grocery shopping?" My point was that groceries in general don't matter, only burgers. Some people almost never eat burgers at home and eat them exclusively at places like Burger King.
        messe 7mo ago
        That's a fair point.
barrell 7mo ago
This is such a weird comment. It’s ultra processed food devoid of micronutrients with low quality protein and poor bioavailability. Health conscious folks would definitely not choose this. In fact, it’s all the things you try to avoid as soon as you start being health conscious. Folks who want to believe they are being health conscious may be convinced via marketing to buy it, but anyone seriously invested in their nutrition would steer very clear of these.
- TeMPOraL 7mo ago
  Maybe they're hoping there exists a non-crazy subset of "health conscious" population, i.e. people who are not panicly afraid of "ultra processed" food and generally don't consider food processing to be a sin, who don't see food manufacturing plants as temples of Satan, and are otherwise health conscious and not just playing the fitness fad social games.
  - tovlier 7mo ago
    [dead]
  - rdn 7mo ago
    They must be panicly afraid of salt and saturated fat instead then, since that was OP's argument for "health conscious". Yet still insist on a simulacrum of a burger, instead of having a chicken breast. This product will only succeed if its reasonably cheaper than the cheapest meat (not just beef). It is and forever will be inferior to meat as a food product for the vast majority of consumers. Perhaps in some vision of the future the dominant consumer is Hindu and they may find the product acceptable, but they'll still be price conscious.
  - oblio 7mo ago
    Ultra processed foods are tied with a myriad of health conditions. https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/behind-the-headlines/ultra-processed-foods https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-maga... Please tell the British Heart Foundation that they're "the crazy kind of health conscious" :-)
kakacik 7mo ago
This is such a weird comment. I have friend who was vegan for 20 years, and when we went to good restaurant and he wanted to choose between vegan patty burger and real one, he chose real one due to all chemical industrial crap they put in those veggie patties and chose a good Swiss beef instead of questionable worse-tasting content. Yes, he literally stopped being vegan at that point, although he still is on most days since then. Its subpar product, with way too much questionable chemistry, worse taste (or more like structure&taste) and impact on environment is... questionable too, maybe less than real beef but probably not massively. What could be acceptable for environmental impact is lab grown real meat but even that seems to not go the direction one would expect.
- shafyy 7mo ago
  > I have friend who was vegan for 20 years, and when we went to good restaurant and he wanted to choose between vegan patty burger and real one, he chose real one due to all chemical industrial crap they put in those veggie patties and chose a good Swiss beef instead of questionable worse-tasting content So, he wasn't vegan then?
sarreph 7mo ago
You did such a good job of listing out reasons why niche demographics would skip a meat-free burger, without listing the actual core demographic who consumes them: Vegans and vegetarians, i.e. people who enjoy eating burgers but don’t eat meat.
- dcminter 7mo ago
  Their second paragraph addresses this.
  - sarreph 7mo ago
    “Health conscious” !== vegan, vegetarian
    - dcminter 7mo ago
      That's the third paragraph.
whywhywhywhy 7mo ago
> Health conscious folks would definitely choose these over hamburgers Why? Carbs and processed oils bound together by stodge isn’t healthier than fried ground beef.
amelius 7mo ago
But soy products contain high amounts of phytoestrogens.
- mhl47 7mo ago
  Most beyond products I know don't even contain soy as protein source. Regardless of what you think about phytooestrogens (which has very little evidence to have negative effects in normal quantities)
  - amelius 7mo ago
    You're right, they contain yellow peas. But ... these are also rich in phytoestrogens. (It is also an Asian crop, originally, maybe that has something to do with Western people, especially men, not being very well tolerant to it)
FooBarWidget 7mo ago
> Health conscious folks would definitely choose these over hamburgers. I don't know man. I'm a health conscious person and I could just as easily choose normal chicken meat, or a beef steak that's not a hamburger, or fatty fish (omega-3!!). Why would I choose a hamburger substitute? I don't even particularly crave hamburgers. I took a look at the ingredients list of the Dutch version, and it seems to be okay when it comes to amount of industrial fillers. It seems the preservative (potassium lactate) is the only problem, everything else seems acceptable. So I guess it's not that bad, but I still don't still really have a reason to choose it. On days when I don't particularly want to eat a lot of meat, I just eat more rice, vegetables and beans. It's not that hard? I think the OP is right: their niche seemed to be people who crave something like a hamburger or at least real meat while having an ideological opposition against meat and enough money.
chaostheory 7mo ago
Trying to avoid Mad Cow disease from ground meat is a thing too.
liveoneggs 7mo ago
a bubba burger (grocery store frozen burger) has 90mg sodium (https://bubbafoods.com/nutrition/bubba-angus-beef-2lb/ https://bubbafoods.com/nutrition/bubba-angus-beef-2lb/) a beyond burger has 310mg https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/products/the-beyond-burger https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/products/the-beyond-burger They are lower in fat and total calories but they are obviously more processed = salt. Even a mcdonalds burger patty (without the bun) has less salt.
- malfist 7mo ago
  Not everyone cares about processing or salt. And like the OP said it's not a comparison to a bean burger that matters, they weren't going to chose that anyway, it's the comparison to real meat
  - liveoneggs 7mo ago
    it was the first thing he called out as being healthier, which was factually incorrect. bubba burgers are real meat, not bean burgers
- gowld 7mo ago
  McDonalds quarter pounder has less salt per oz, but the Big Mac / basic burger patties have more salt per oz or per protein gram. https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/about-our-food/nutrition-calculator.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/about-our-food/nutrition-...
  - liveoneggs 7mo ago
    thanks for the link; here are the numbers: Basic burger without any other ingredients has 90 calories and 160mg sodium. The quarter pounder patty alone has 220 calories and 210mg of sodium. Big mac patty (includes "flavoring") has 190 calories and 310mg sodium. Beyond patty is 230 calories with 310mg sodium.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
hbn 7mo ago
> Health conscious folks would definitely choose these over hamburgers Not sure what health-conscious people you know, but I'd hazard to guess that most would choose the patty made from a single natural ingredient that's been a staple of the human diet since the dawn of man over the ultra-processed slurry of starches and oils.
- trevorkoob 7mo ago
  You may have a point about processing, but I think by talking about "most people" you have invalidated any future points you may be trying to make. For example: "single natural ingredient" not every cow is only fed with grass, and what about that grass, has it been treated, etc... also Neu5Gc Mammal meat contains it, Humans have lost the enzyme (perhaps over that time since "the dawn of man"), it causes inflammation. Looking at chimpanzee diets, I don't think our common ancestor was regularly eating burgers. More likely insects and leaves...which do not contain Neu5Gc. As a self-proclaimed "healthy person", I'm not regularly eating either of these, but unless I know where the meat comes from, I'm likely sticking to the non-inflammatory burger.
  - Amezarak 7mo ago
    > Looking at chimpanzee diets, I don't think our common ancestor was regularly eating burgers. More likely insects and leaves...which do not contain Neu5Gc. Chimpanzees eat plenty of meat. They particularly enjoy hunting and eating monkeys, for example.
  - hn_user82179 7mo ago
    > not every cow is only fed with grass, and what about that grass, has it been treated, etc... the (low) possibility of mad cow always lurks in my mind when discussing things like this. I have a deep fear of prions. The much more common scenario is the use of growth hormones in cows - to the point that pro athletes traveling/competing in Central and South America are instructed to avoid beef altogether as they later test positive in their drug tests for anabolic steroids. I personally opt for meat over vegetarian options when given the choice to make sure I get sufficient protein (I do track and I struggle to get enough when eating vegetarian) but I still would vastly prefer more meat alternatives. I'm always very impressed by the Beyond options and I'm glad it's very slowly becoming more mainstream. I remember the first time I'd had an Impossible Burger was in San francisco about 10 years ago - a group of friends and I were talking about this "crazy meatless burger that still feels/tastes like meat" and we searched out a restaurant that offered it. The fact that national fast food chains are offering it now is indicative of the progress being made in society and normalizing the meatless alternatives.
Chris2048 7mo ago
> The whole point of being an ethical vegan/vegetarian is to not consume animals You can agree with this sentiment (ideology?) and not be vegan, if you aren't willing to give up meat. giving up meat is what defines this demographic. Relative to a population of people willing to give up meat, would you assume there is no difference in "liking how plants taste" versus the general population? I'd assume it correlates directly with "willingness to give up meat". > Health conscious folks would definitely choose these over hamburgers. Maybe, but in context its a false dichotomy, why wouldn't they pick better substitutes e.g. non-average meat?
bawolff 7mo ago
It does seem like that is literally what happened. The only people i ever hear say anything positive about beyond burger (after the novelty wore off) was meat eaters. Vegeterians, for whatever reason, tended not to like it. But meat eaters were always going to choose meat anyways, so it seems like nobody actually bought it.
- midiguy 7mo ago
  I feel like I am exactly the target demographic. Love the taste of meat. Would eat it every day if there were no consequences. But I mostly cook vegetarian at home because my wife is veg and I do somewhat care about the impacts of factory farming ('ethical' meat being stupid expensive). For me Beyond burgers are a good way to scratch that itch a bit. I feel like there must be many more people like me because meat is both delicious and problematic but maybe that's my own bias.
thegreatpeter 7mo ago
If any of this were true they’d be doing much better and not pivoting
JohnMakin 7mo ago
This is a way weirder comment than the one you're replying to
andxor 7mo ago
I think it's pretty obvious from their financial results that this company is a commercial failure, and the subset of people who consume their product on a regular basis is vanishingly small. Do some people occasionally eat fake meat? Sure. Enough to build a sustainable business? Less clear.
DangitBobby 7mo ago
> And at most restaurants, I've never noticed a "premium" for it, it usually costs the same as a beef patty; it just provides another option, for the days I want to skip meat I'm a vegetarian. I have never _not_ paid at least $2 premium to sub in an Impossible or Beyond patty. I've had tons of them, there are some in my freezer.

by lambda 7mo ago

Klonoar 7mo ago

Nah, it definitely costs extra at restaurants.

afavour 7mo ago

> And at most restaurants, I've never noticed a "premium" for it I just did a quick search on Uber Eats in NYC. Every Beyond Burger I found was between $3-5 more than a regular burger. That’s the reason I stopped eating them, I actually quite like the texture and flavor. I just don’t like the price.

fosco 7mo ago
I never buy beyond/impossible at restaurants because of this. I often have some at home and instead of having two red meat burgers have one and one of these, occasionally when they go on sale at Costco I’ll buy a bunch. I am not vegan or vegetarian but do seek ways to reduce my red meat intake which years ago was grilling ribeyes 4-5 nights a week. I was unreasonably unhealthy and having alternate options helped balance my health out over the long run. I like both beyond burgers and impossible. I wish they were cheaper than hamburger meat, when I compare to buying hamburger meat in bulk it’s still more expensive at this point
xvector 7mo ago
Eh I just decided that $3-5 extra is fine for not causing immense amounts of physical suffering to some poor animal for my burger meal.
- slashdev 7mo ago
  So you've decided it's more ethical it not be born or live at all. Obviously the only reason beef cattle exist at all is because we eat them. It doesn't seem such a clear cut ethical decision to me. Certainly there are some forms of raising livestock that are terrible (broiler chickens come to mind), but there are other forms that actually seem quite pleasant for the animals most of the time (e.g. free-range cattle).
  - xvector 7mo ago
    Free-range isn't pleasant at all, that's a fair bit of clever marketing. It's virtually impossible to find meat that has lived a "pleasant" life and slaughter. I'd eat meat myself if I could find a reliable and cost effective source of ethical farming. https://www.dominionmovement.com/facts https://www.dominionmovement.com/facts - Ctrl-F "free range"
    - slashdev 7mo ago
      It varies quite a lot. You actually could find a reliable and cost effective source of ethical ranching, it typically requires buying e.g. a whole side of beef from a specific ranch. Not very convenient, but if you worry so much about the conditions of the animal, that gives you a way to choose one that fits your standards.
leethargo 7mo ago
Interesting. At Burger King in Germany, there's no such difference, last time I checked.

thesis 7mo ago

FYI most beyond burgers have more in sodium not less and beyond uses coconut oil which is still fairly high in saturated fat. If those 2 things are your barometer for healthy… it’s not a clear win.

watermelon0 7mo ago
Seems like they switched to avocado oil recently: > Water, Yellow Pea Protein*, Avocado Oil, Natural Flavors, Brown Rice Protein, Red Lentil Protein, 2% or less of Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Pea Starch, Potassium Lactate (to preserve freshness), Faba Bean Protein, Apple Extract, Pomegranate Concentrate, Potassium Salt, Spice, Vinegar, Vegetable Juice Color (with Beet). From: https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/products/the-beyond-burger https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/products/the-beyond-burger

firebot 7mo ago

[flagged]

firebot 7mo ago
Just so you're aware. A cow releases maybe about 50 kg of methane a year. An average human releases about 20 tons if they're in a first world nation or maybe 4 tons if they're living in the middle of fucking nowhere.

lithocarpus 7mo ago

Beyond Burger ingredients: Yellow Pea Protein, Avocado Oil, Natural Flavors, Brown Rice Protein, Red Lentil Protein, 2% or less of Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Pea Starch, Potassium Lactate (to preserve freshness), Faba Bean Protein, Apple Extract, Pomegranate Concentrate, Potassium Salt, Spice, Vinegar, Vegetable Juice Color (with Beet). Except for Vinegar, every one of these is an industrially processed/extracted/refined ingredient that humans never ate until within the last ~50 years. We have no way to even know if many of these are safe let alone healthy. I don't know of any evidence that these things are a decent substitute for meat and salt which humans have been eating for our entire history. And for those who actually believe animal fat and salt are unhealthy one could make burgers with lean meat and less or no salt.

viccis 7mo ago
[flagged]
- haraldooo 7mo ago
  I‘m eating plant based meats regularly but I guess we all know how e.g. trans fats, high fructose corn sirup and probably more were once considered safe and are certainly not anymore
- djtango 7mo ago
  As someone who is very cautious about health and nutrition and spent 4 years studying Chemistry at a good university, my takeaway at the time of graduation was more aligned with your caricature as a better prior and heuristic for judging consumable foods. I remember being told an anecdote that left me feeling humble about just how much of the body we understand: there were cases where the kinetic isotope effect could affect biochemistry, that was how sensitive our systems are and that industrial synthesis will definitely produce different isotopic ratios to natural synthesis. My conviction on this subject has continued to strengthen with articles like [1] on emulsifiers recently entering public awareness. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/c5y548258q9o https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/c5y548258q9o EDIT: grammatical cleanup
- californical 7mo ago

ehnto 7mo ago

I'm a bit of a fence sitter so I might actually be their target market. Very athletic, a bit health concious but not crazy about it in regards to diet. If I am eating out, usually my macros are not a big part of decision making. If there is a meatless option that might actually be good for a bit of a fibre boost, considering all the other protein I am intaking. It's important to remember also that not athletic individuals are high achieving bodybuilders with super strict macro diets. Most other sports only require a moderate attention to diet, especially at an amateur level. Bodybuilding is very diet focused, rather than strength and skill focused.

eeixlk 7mo ago
Like all burgers this is a high protein, low fiber food option. It probably has more in common with your protein shake, being high in pea and other proteins but also has a high amount of sodium. This is a splurge food like any burger is. If you are looking for fiber, vegetables have them. Also impossible burgers taste better as they smell like coconuts instead of peas when they are cooked.

xdennis 7mo ago

> Health conscious folks would definitely choose these over hamburgers. I seriously doubt that health-conscious people would pick hyper-processed plants that are meant to resemble meat over plain meat+bread+vegetables that make up a non-fast-food hamburger.

rcakebread 7mo ago

"they're lower in sodium and saturated fat than your average hamburger patty" If you buy a Beyond patty, it has way more sodium than ground beef you'd buy at a grocerty store. Comparing it with a fast food burger isn't really fair.

kulahan 7mo ago
Not really - every single Burger King out there sells the beyond burger as far as I've seen.
- messe 7mo ago
  If they're selling in a supermarket, it's more than fair to compare them to those offerings. Who's buying Burger King more than grocery shopping?
  - AlecSchueler 7mo ago
    I've eaten maybe 5 burgers at home in my 35 years but I've eaten plenty more at fast food restaurants.
    - messe 7mo ago
      And I've eaten far more at home than out in my 29. It's really not that common to eat out that often where I live.
      - AlecSchueler 7mo ago
        That's fine. You asked "Who's buying Burger King more than grocery shopping?" My point was that groceries in general don't matter, only burgers. Some people almost never eat burgers at home and eat them exclusively at places like Burger King.
        messe 7mo ago
        That's a fair point.

barrell 7mo ago

This is such a weird comment. It’s ultra processed food devoid of micronutrients with low quality protein and poor bioavailability. Health conscious folks would definitely not choose this. In fact, it’s all the things you try to avoid as soon as you start being health conscious. Folks who want to believe they are being health conscious may be convinced via marketing to buy it, but anyone seriously invested in their nutrition would steer very clear of these.

TeMPOraL 7mo ago
Maybe they're hoping there exists a non-crazy subset of "health conscious" population, i.e. people who are not panicly afraid of "ultra processed" food and generally don't consider food processing to be a sin, who don't see food manufacturing plants as temples of Satan, and are otherwise health conscious and not just playing the fitness fad social games.
- tovlier 7mo ago
  [dead]
- rdn 7mo ago
  They must be panicly afraid of salt and saturated fat instead then, since that was OP's argument for "health conscious". Yet still insist on a simulacrum of a burger, instead of having a chicken breast. This product will only succeed if its reasonably cheaper than the cheapest meat (not just beef). It is and forever will be inferior to meat as a food product for the vast majority of consumers. Perhaps in some vision of the future the dominant consumer is Hindu and they may find the product acceptable, but they'll still be price conscious.
- oblio 7mo ago
  Ultra processed foods are tied with a myriad of health conditions. https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/behind-the-headlines/ultra-processed-foods https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-maga... Please tell the British Heart Foundation that they're "the crazy kind of health conscious" :-)

kakacik 7mo ago

This is such a weird comment. I have friend who was vegan for 20 years, and when we went to good restaurant and he wanted to choose between vegan patty burger and real one, he chose real one due to all chemical industrial crap they put in those veggie patties and chose a good Swiss beef instead of questionable worse-tasting content. Yes, he literally stopped being vegan at that point, although he still is on most days since then. Its subpar product, with way too much questionable chemistry, worse taste (or more like structure&taste) and impact on environment is... questionable too, maybe less than real beef but probably not massively. What could be acceptable for environmental impact is lab grown real meat but even that seems to not go the direction one would expect.

shafyy 7mo ago
> I have friend who was vegan for 20 years, and when we went to good restaurant and he wanted to choose between vegan patty burger and real one, he chose real one due to all chemical industrial crap they put in those veggie patties and chose a good Swiss beef instead of questionable worse-tasting content So, he wasn't vegan then?

sarreph 7mo ago

You did such a good job of listing out reasons why niche demographics would skip a meat-free burger, without listing the actual core demographic who consumes them: Vegans and vegetarians, i.e. people who enjoy eating burgers but don’t eat meat.

dcminter 7mo ago
Their second paragraph addresses this.
- sarreph 7mo ago
  “Health conscious” !== vegan, vegetarian
  - dcminter 7mo ago
    That's the third paragraph.

whywhywhywhy 7mo ago

> Health conscious folks would definitely choose these over hamburgers Why? Carbs and processed oils bound together by stodge isn’t healthier than fried ground beef.

amelius 7mo ago

But soy products contain high amounts of phytoestrogens.

mhl47 7mo ago
Most beyond products I know don't even contain soy as protein source. Regardless of what you think about phytooestrogens (which has very little evidence to have negative effects in normal quantities)
- amelius 7mo ago
  You're right, they contain yellow peas. But ... these are also rich in phytoestrogens. (It is also an Asian crop, originally, maybe that has something to do with Western people, especially men, not being very well tolerant to it)

FooBarWidget 7mo ago

> Health conscious folks would definitely choose these over hamburgers. I don't know man. I'm a health conscious person and I could just as easily choose normal chicken meat, or a beef steak that's not a hamburger, or fatty fish (omega-3!!). Why would I choose a hamburger substitute? I don't even particularly crave hamburgers. I took a look at the ingredients list of the Dutch version, and it seems to be okay when it comes to amount of industrial fillers. It seems the preservative (potassium lactate) is the only problem, everything else seems acceptable. So I guess it's not that bad, but I still don't still really have a reason to choose it. On days when I don't particularly want to eat a lot of meat, I just eat more rice, vegetables and beans. It's not that hard? I think the OP is right: their niche seemed to be people who crave something like a hamburger or at least real meat while having an ideological opposition against meat and enough money.

chaostheory 7mo ago

Trying to avoid Mad Cow disease from ground meat is a thing too.

liveoneggs 7mo ago

a bubba burger (grocery store frozen burger) has 90mg sodium (https://bubbafoods.com/nutrition/bubba-angus-beef-2lb/ https://bubbafoods.com/nutrition/bubba-angus-beef-2lb/) a beyond burger has 310mg https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/products/the-beyond-burger https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/products/the-beyond-burger They are lower in fat and total calories but they are obviously more processed = salt. Even a mcdonalds burger patty (without the bun) has less salt.

malfist 7mo ago
Not everyone cares about processing or salt. And like the OP said it's not a comparison to a bean burger that matters, they weren't going to chose that anyway, it's the comparison to real meat
- liveoneggs 7mo ago
  it was the first thing he called out as being healthier, which was factually incorrect. bubba burgers are real meat, not bean burgers
gowld 7mo ago
McDonalds quarter pounder has less salt per oz, but the Big Mac / basic burger patties have more salt per oz or per protein gram. https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/about-our-food/nutrition-calculator.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/about-our-food/nutrition-...
- liveoneggs 7mo ago
  thanks for the link; here are the numbers: Basic burger without any other ingredients has 90 calories and 160mg sodium. The quarter pounder patty alone has 220 calories and 210mg of sodium. Big mac patty (includes "flavoring") has 190 calories and 310mg sodium. Beyond patty is 230 calories with 310mg sodium.

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hbn 7mo ago

> Health conscious folks would definitely choose these over hamburgers Not sure what health-conscious people you know, but I'd hazard to guess that most would choose the patty made from a single natural ingredient that's been a staple of the human diet since the dawn of man over the ultra-processed slurry of starches and oils.

trevorkoob 7mo ago
You may have a point about processing, but I think by talking about "most people" you have invalidated any future points you may be trying to make. For example: "single natural ingredient" not every cow is only fed with grass, and what about that grass, has it been treated, etc... also Neu5Gc Mammal meat contains it, Humans have lost the enzyme (perhaps over that time since "the dawn of man"), it causes inflammation. Looking at chimpanzee diets, I don't think our common ancestor was regularly eating burgers. More likely insects and leaves...which do not contain Neu5Gc. As a self-proclaimed "healthy person", I'm not regularly eating either of these, but unless I know where the meat comes from, I'm likely sticking to the non-inflammatory burger.
- Amezarak 7mo ago
  > Looking at chimpanzee diets, I don't think our common ancestor was regularly eating burgers. More likely insects and leaves...which do not contain Neu5Gc. Chimpanzees eat plenty of meat. They particularly enjoy hunting and eating monkeys, for example.
- hn_user82179 7mo ago
  > not every cow is only fed with grass, and what about that grass, has it been treated, etc... the (low) possibility of mad cow always lurks in my mind when discussing things like this. I have a deep fear of prions. The much more common scenario is the use of growth hormones in cows - to the point that pro athletes traveling/competing in Central and South America are instructed to avoid beef altogether as they later test positive in their drug tests for anabolic steroids. I personally opt for meat over vegetarian options when given the choice to make sure I get sufficient protein (I do track and I struggle to get enough when eating vegetarian) but I still would vastly prefer more meat alternatives. I'm always very impressed by the Beyond options and I'm glad it's very slowly becoming more mainstream. I remember the first time I'd had an Impossible Burger was in San francisco about 10 years ago - a group of friends and I were talking about this "crazy meatless burger that still feels/tastes like meat" and we searched out a restaurant that offered it. The fact that national fast food chains are offering it now is indicative of the progress being made in society and normalizing the meatless alternatives.

Chris2048 7mo ago

> The whole point of being an ethical vegan/vegetarian is to not consume animals You can agree with this sentiment (ideology?) and not be vegan, if you aren't willing to give up meat. giving up meat is what defines this demographic. Relative to a population of people willing to give up meat, would you assume there is no difference in "liking how plants taste" versus the general population? I'd assume it correlates directly with "willingness to give up meat". > Health conscious folks would definitely choose these over hamburgers. Maybe, but in context its a false dichotomy, why wouldn't they pick better substitutes e.g. non-average meat?

bawolff 7mo ago

It does seem like that is literally what happened. The only people i ever hear say anything positive about beyond burger (after the novelty wore off) was meat eaters. Vegeterians, for whatever reason, tended not to like it. But meat eaters were always going to choose meat anyways, so it seems like nobody actually bought it.

midiguy 7mo ago
I feel like I am exactly the target demographic. Love the taste of meat. Would eat it every day if there were no consequences. But I mostly cook vegetarian at home because my wife is veg and I do somewhat care about the impacts of factory farming ('ethical' meat being stupid expensive). For me Beyond burgers are a good way to scratch that itch a bit. I feel like there must be many more people like me because meat is both delicious and problematic but maybe that's my own bias.

thegreatpeter 7mo ago

If any of this were true they’d be doing much better and not pivoting

JohnMakin 7mo ago

This is a way weirder comment than the one you're replying to

andxor 7mo ago

I think it's pretty obvious from their financial results that this company is a commercial failure, and the subset of people who consume their product on a regular basis is vanishingly small. Do some people occasionally eat fake meat? Sure. Enough to build a sustainable business? Less clear.

DangitBobby 7mo ago

> And at most restaurants, I've never noticed a "premium" for it, it usually costs the same as a beef patty; it just provides another option, for the days I want to skip meat I'm a vegetarian. I have never _not_ paid at least $2 premium to sub in an Impossible or Beyond patty. I've had tons of them, there are some in my freezer.