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Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- _9za9 7mo ago[flagged]
- saubeidl 7mo agoWhich is probably the gold standard for polling the UK Public. Not sure what you're trying to say?
- hermanzegerman 7mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- tonyedgecombe 7mo agoITV is a commercial broadcaster.
- _9za9 7mo ago[flagged]
- saubeidl 7mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITV_plc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITV_plc > ITV plc is a British media company that holds 13 of the 15 regional television licences that make up the ITV network (Channel 3), the oldest and largest commercial terrestrial television network in the United Kingdom
- AntsyGravity 7mo agoThey run ads, it's commercial.
- shablulman 7mo ago[flagged]
- DuperPower 7mo agoim laughing out loud about your definition of politics as an abstract thing that is related to feelings instead of being literally something related to a concrete things that has to do with people working and surviving. The reason you are describing is political, its just materialistic political not idealistic political
- deaux 7mo agoIt's a direct-from-LLM comment, which is interesting coming from a 12-year old account. Could be bought/sold.
- deaux 7mo agoObvious LLM comment, so are the other recent ones.
- RealityVoid 7mo agoHmm, is it? Why do you think? I'm not saying it ain't so, but I wonder what signs I'm missing. I couldn't smell this one. Probably because, fundamentally, I find myself agreeing with it. I'm sure this contributes to me be being somewhat tone deaf.
- jjgreen 7mo agoAmerican em-dashes to start ...
- svantana 7mo agoThat is hardly a smoking gun—I typed one just now.
- mikkupikku 7mo ago
- tonyedgecombe 7mo agoNo surprise, you had to be over the age of 39 before you were more likely to vote for Brexit. By the time we got around to implementing it enough old people had died off that the vote would have gone the other way already.
- jjgreen 7mo agoThe Brexit-induced impoverishment of UK will inevitably lead to a reduction in the scope of the NHS and so kill off its supporters. So Brexit is kind-of self healing.
- saubeidl 7mo agoIt's only self-healing if they actually manage to rejoin...
- citrin_ru 7mo agoGeneration of boomers accumulated lots of wealth, mostly thanks to house prices skyrocketing during their lifetime. Not all but many old people can afford private healthcare. Younger people need NHS more.
- GuestFAUniverse 7mo agoOr they let the houses rot, without reinvestment and now are commanding insane prices -- and what are the alternatives the next gen has?
- munksbeer 7mo agoThe irony is that in our experience, if you're old or a child, you're far more likely to be treated quickly on the NHS. Perhaps that isn't the whole story, maybe old people tend to have more life threatening conditions, so triage puts them first. But from my perspective, private health insurance is now mandatory in the UK if you're not old or a child, and I am even going to put my children on private health insurance. So now I'm paying a fortune in taxes for a health system I can no rely on, so must pay for private too.
- mcc1ane 7mo agoThe cohort least likely to vote.
- Schmerika 7mo agoAnd the cohort most likely to vote well when they do. The 18 year olds who vote less but vote for good parties are doing good, overall. The 60 year olds voting Tory their whole lives - not so much. It's very easy to blame the young for all the problems earlier generations created and exacerbated. Not too wise though.
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago> And the cohort most likely to vote well when they do Eh, this is far from a given. Mao's Red Guards were passionate idiots. And America's young men are in thrall of Clavicular. The most powerful empires in history have had large rebublics at their cores for good reason. The wisdom of a crowd greatly increases with its diversity.
- satori99 7mo agoAs an Australian, I am so grateful for compulsory voting.
- JCattheATM 7mo agoIt's pretty anti-democratic honestly, but expected from a nanny state like AU. Then again they don't really enforce it - what's a $20 fine anyway?
- Schmerika 7mo ago> this is far from a given. It's a given in Britain; ie, where we're talking about. > Mao's Red Guards were passionate idiots. Ok. And? > America's young men are in thrall of Clavicular. Clavicular? What? Were you trying to type Caligula - in which case, again, what? American youth are far better voters than the elder generations - at least in terms of being against things like genocide, or in favor of things like universal healthcare, affordable housing/education, a liveable environment etc. Unless you favor America's current status quo, which some people might. Personally, ew. > The most powerful empires in history have had large rebublics at their cores for good reason. Ehm you might consider the Dutch/British/Spanish/Mongolian/Roman/American empires role models of exemplary voting, but I certainly don't. > The wisdom of a crowd greatly increases with its diversity. If that's true (in certain contexts, with caveats, etc), then maybe by that logic we shouldn't be dismissive of young people, eg, just because they generally vote a bit less than older generations.
- jimmydoe 7mo agoMany may change position when they grow up Also young people always blame last gen for whatever, so expects -8 ~ 0 years old would vote for exit again…
- Upvoter33 7mo agoPretty dismissive ("when they grow up") of the group of people in the 16-24 year old range. These are not children; most of that group is 18 and over. You imply noise but there is clearly some signal in this result.
- mikkupikku 7mo agoHow old are you now, and how much of what you believe now is the same as when you were 16-24? It shouldn't be controversial to say that young people are brimming with idealism while being low on experience. FWIW I think Brexit was dumb but I never felt strongly about any of it because it doesn't effect me in any way. I'm not saying their views on Brexit specifically are likely to change.
- alistairSH 7mo agoI’m still a bleeding heart and have been since college. If anything I’ve become MORE liberal over time, as that has allowed me time to realize just how wealthy and privileged I am as a male, white American professional.
- danaris 7mo agoI'm in my 40s, and I have only gotten more and more progressive as I've "grown up". You want to know why? Because I've met more marginalized people. When I was 16, I didn't know anyone who was openly queer, and I lived in a moderately-affluent, nearly-all-white area of the US. Now, I know many people who are queer, poor, disabled, and/or people of color, and because I was raised to care about people and believe to value every human life, I want them to be treated as well as I (a middle-class, white, straight, cis man) am.
- constantcrying 7mo ago[flagged]
- cedws 7mo agoI was too young to vote in the referendum. I’m incredibly angry about having lost freedom of movement. If the UK by some miracle rejoins the EU I will make the jump to Europe the very same day. Still looking for a way out in the meantime. The UK just keeps kicking young people down. The boomers voting against our interests are whipping us into working to pay for their triple locked pensions.
- casenmgreen 7mo agoI tried to vote, by post, as I lived in the EU. The ballot paper arrived the day before the vote. It was impossible to return it in time, and indeed, when I checked, my vote had arrived too late and was not counted.
- cedws 7mo agoThis kind of thing makes me so cynical about democracy.
- teamonkey 7mo agoWorth mentioning that 16-year-olds will be able to vote in the next general election. Hopefully they will use that vote.
- darreninthenet 7mo agoYou have a way out... you are allowed to live and work in Ireland. Stay there for a few years (I forget how many) and apply for an Irish ( = EU) passport
- cedws 7mo agoYes, it’s a path I have considered/am considering, but it’s a 5 year commitment. I’m in my mid 20s and want to be able to travel without worrying if my residency application will be jeopardised. The years where I want the freedom of movement the most will have passed by then.
- 7mo ago
- citrin_ru 7mo ago65+ is the only age group in which >50% still believe Brexit was a good choice.
- sgt 7mo ago[flagged]
- saubeidl 7mo agoHelp me understand your thinking. I was very against Brexit (and still am). What is there to be gained, in your opinion? In my view, you traded being one of the leading voices in what is increasingly shaping up to be one of the world's superpowers for being a somewhat isolated middle power, nostalgic for its former glory. Why would that be worth it?
- sgt 7mo agoUK did not need the EU for trade agreements. Those can be set up separately. There were a number of examples where the UK kept losing control, and instead having the EU try to determine the direction. This led to loss in sovereignty and freedom. Sadly though it doesn't seem like the UK politicians are taking advantage of this (regulatory, laws, borders, immigrations etc) just yet, but at least now it's possible. My point is: How can you become a superpower again if your foot is chained to a sluggish red tape monster like the EU? Even Norway recently learned that the EEA is not fully respected by the EU (ferroalloy imports). I think you - and seemingly most others, are focusing on the short term downsides and negative economic impact. But that would have happened regardless. Now it's up to the UK to try to increase productivity again, and only then Brexit will make sense. As mentioned, this will take 15 years at minimum.
- saubeidl 7mo agoThe Red Tape is the super power. From India to Mercosur, from Canada to Japan, the world follows rules we write. You gave up the ability to dictate the rules. You'll still have to follow them.
- NedF 7mo ago[dead]
- HPsquared 7mo agoThe UK is such a trap for professionals. It's one of the worst places in the developed world for living standards of white-collar professionals, except a tiny slice of finance workers in London. Especially bad for engineers, and has been for a long time.
- 0_____0 7mo agoI was reading about UK housing and had to look up "rising damp." We don't have that here, or at least not to the level we need a word for it.
- Smaug123 7mo agoThe UK climate never really stops being moist, and our houses are routinely at least a hundred years old and made of brick, built before we knew how to deal with damp and built without AC. If we rebuilt everything we'd fix it, but we can't.
- HPsquared 7mo agoThat just means they've had 100 years to fix it.
- 0_____0 7mo agonew england is also pretty wet but because it freezes, we have basements (not sure about UK), so the stonework is below the habitable levels. i get what you mean about not being able to fix it. from what it sounds like, the UK is leading the US by about 10-20 years in terms of "energy leaving the system."
- tetris11 7mo agoDPC is pretty routine these days, and a lot of old houses get the treatment before they're flipped (as is the custom of our times)
- oliwarner 7mo agoYour criteria for "living standards" being pay?
- preommr 7mo agoRegardless of the value of Brexit, people tend to be biased against things that have happened or are around them when things are bad. Like when people are against a president if the economy isn't doing well, regardless of if the alternative candidate would've been better. This also isn't an issue thats being campaigned on. If there was another vote to join the EU, and people got flooded with anti-eu messaging specifically targeted at the demographic, I'd bet that number would drop.
- spiderfarmer 7mo agoThe EU always has been a scapegoat for incompetent politicians. Now the EU is out of the picture, there’s no-one left to blame. And we can clearly see that the EU, for all its faults, is a very beneficial institution for all involved.
- ksec 7mo agoPeople may agree or disagree on Brexit. But my god your sentence sums up what is happening in the UK, without anyone to blame, whether it is Russia, China, US or EU, UK have simply failed to strategically plan or execute on anything. And there are plenty of people on HN would say otherwise and say UK is fine.
- microtonal 7mo agoThe EU always has been a scapegoat for incompetent politicians. You also see this in countries still in the EU and it will happen as long as we will not have true integration, it is always easier to blame the EU for your own failings, since it is harder for the EU to fend for itself in national politics. One recent example in my country is nitrogen deposition. Long ago, countries have committed to keeping certain nature reserves in good health (or improving them when necessary). Then many subsequent governments always chose the side of the farmers at the detriment of nature. Now many reserves' soil quality is in a terrible state and the courts have told the government to stop and fix the problem. Then we got a bunch of right-wing populist countries that have wasted many more years by blaming the EU and questioning scientific methods for measuring deposits - while it has been abundantly for a long time what actually needs to be done, buy out farmers. At any rate, this constant undermining and blaming of the EU has the effect you'd expect it to - it destroys trust in the EU. Ironically, the saving grace now seems to be the agressor and the lost ally. More people realize that we can't act in an increasingly hostile world as small and mid-sized countries.
- Keekgette 7mo ago[flagged]
- fennecbutt 7mo agoNo public healthcare for you and for those you love and care about. Keep paying Thameswater so their execs get bonuses while their pipes leak and destroy roads
- kitd 7mo agoIIRC, only education outranked age in predicting how likely you were to vote leave. In short, the younger and more intelligent you were, the more likely you were to vote remain. Looks like today's youth continues that trend.
- tirant 7mo agoEducation and age are not equivalent to intelligence.
- Havoc 7mo agoIt was pretty stacked by age even during the vote to leave. Unfortunately the UK has a voting cohort that is both large and willing to screw over subsequent generations.
- Smalltalker-80 7mo agoYep, there's a lot of (continuing) economical damage and still a lot of new immigrants every week. I think some time still needs to pass before Brexit politicians dare to change their stance, now confronted with the results of their choice. In the mean time, Brexit rules are quietly being undone without losing face too much. See the EU-UK trade deals from May 2025.
- soderfoo 7mo agoWhat's the "pull" that keeps people migrating to the UK despite the economic gloom?
- pseudohadamard 7mo agoI don't think they can. The UK got a lot, and I mean a lot, of special privileges when they joined the EU, even more so than the French. When they come back again with their tail between their legs, they won't get the same treatment a second time. This will make rejoining much, much harder than just clicking "Undo".
- StopDisinfo910 7mo agoI think the idea I see here that young = modern = pro-EU and old = anti-EU by ignorance is a gross oversimplification which doesn't stand. I personally was very pro-EU in my youth and deeply soured as I knew more and more to the point I'm staunchly against nowadays. It started in 2005 with the referendum result being ignored. Then 2012 came with the shambolic management of the Greek crisis, something even the IMF points as ineffective. Then I was paid to put in place the Green Taxonomy and I saw how unready and dumb the whole thing was. Then there was the rejection of the Draghi report which made lose hope. I find the mix of the euro being a deeply unfair currency union strongly advantaging Germany at the expense of the periphery, the fact that Germany keeps playing on it and amplifying the effect in direct violation of the treaty and yet always get a hall pass and their holier than though attitude despite being basically free loaders completely impossible to tolerate. The 2019 CEP study showed it well. The union costs billions of GDP to France and Italy to give a minor advantage to the German. It's a dogmatic straight jacket managed by priests with zero actual economic understanding and serving the interests of a big mercantilist using development funds to shore up its tributaries in the east and still managing to gradually lose relevance as it can't even manage having a proper strategy despite the advantages, and a few fiscal parasites around it. At 36, I deeply wish from my country to be free of the monster than the union has become and deeply ressent being a prisoner of a monetary union which intentionally didn't plan an exit path. And for what? Surrendering the ability to make law to the citizen of other countries who share neither my language, nor my culture, clearly don't have the same vision of the future than us and wants to force us into their ineffective model? No, thanks. No GDP gains or alleged diplomatic weight is worth this debasement. I don't understand Brexiters because being out of the euros they had the best of both worlds but I respect their desire to be truly sovereign and free from the constant Germanic hegemonic push. Edit:Lots of downvotes, very few counterarguments. I'm guessing facing the tensions at the heart of the project makes some of you frankly uncomfortable.
- blfr 7mo agoIt is constantly shocking to me that no matter how many times and where in the west people vote against immigration (which is what most of these votes boil down to), they can never get it. It's truly a crown in the gutter moment where you can be completely off-the-wall nuts (vide AfD) and, if you're just willing to campaign on anti-immigration, your ranks will instantly swell. Yet the establishment is somehow completely incapable or unwilling to capitalize/capture this.
- ForHackernews 7mo agoI assume it's economically catastrophic to cut off the supply of young, low-wage labour and that's why no responsible government will ever do it.
- blfr 7mo agoThis would be a good explanation but most of these immigrants, especially from outside the EU, are not net contributors. vide https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20211218_EUC232.png https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-e... from https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/12/18/why-have-danes-turned-against-immigration https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/12/18/why-have-danes-t... And I highly doubt other governments don't have similar calculations or aren't aware of them.
- ForHackernews 7mo ago...but Brits voted against EU immigrants.
- blfr 7mo agoYeah, what I am saying is that these votes, regardless of their formal content, are usually an expression of general anti-immigrant sentiment. Like voting for AfD. I doubt many people look at this organization and its leaders to conclude that "ah, here is the talent I would love to have running my country." They're merely the only available option against. Same with brexit.
- crims0n 7mo agoBeen reading a lot of novels set during the golden years of the British Empire. It is both amazing and terrifying how far a country can fall in less than a century… which for some lucky people is a single lifetime.
- ido 7mo agoBoth the average and mean UK citizen is unambiguously better off today than whenever the golden age of the empire was.
- crims0n 7mo agoI don’t doubt that, it’s just crazy for me to think that less than 100 years ago they were six times the size of the Roman Empire, and the dominant superpower on earth.
- alecco 7mo agoIn totally unrelated news, "16 to 24-year-olds" is the group with majority migrant background.
- akmarinov 7mo agoWell they don’t vote, so it doesn’t matter. And by the time they get around to voting usually the older you get the more conservative you get, so it’ll change.
- tim-tday 7mo agoWait, that’s an option?