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ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants
- mbix77 8mo agoElon Musk did the biggest data heist of all times.
- JumpCrisscross 8mo agoDoesn’t appear to be related.
- Waterluvian 8mo agoI’m not sure I’d even call it that. It was obvious and happened in broad daylight in front of everyone. But much the ICE assaults, there isn’t much Americans can really do about it.
- mlnj 8mo ago"We've tried nothing and are out of ideas." Sounds like Americans are in general fine with all of it. Voting patterns hold. General sentiment still remains aligned with the status quo. There does not seem like there are any consequences for the representatives to not represent the people.
- njhnjhnjhnjh 8mo ago[dead]
- mothballed 8mo ago[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago> Any use or benefit obtained via the state apparatus should be viewed from the lens it will be wielded This is nonsense. Given the same tendency is shared by large private organisations, this is throwing one’s hands up with extra steps. Regulations and laws work. The fact that a section of the INA seems to compel pretty ridiculous amounts of inter-departmental data sharing is the issue.
- mothballed 8mo agoIt's not throwing your hands up. I still do deal with private organizations, knowing they will do the same thing. It's doing a risk analysis. I expect everyone I do business with will fuck me the most they can the millisecond they have a chance. Thus I try to do business with people with the least incentive to do so, or failing that, those with the least leverage to do so.
- petterroea 8mo agoPrivate surveillance is so much more scary than regular government surveillance because they have every incentive to invent new ways of surveilling you that they then try to sell to governments, or private actors who want to influence the world. It's like classic government surveillance but every company you interacted with and every app you use may at some point turn on you and use your data against you, just because someone realized "hey, I bet we can sell this data" We are really seeing the fears of data collection from the 2000s and 2010s come to fruition as privatized surveillance now. Cambridge analytica should have been the warning shot but it wasn't enough.
- londons_explore 8mo ago> Private surveillance is so much more scary than regular government surveillance because ... ... because the private sector tends to be far more competent and able to get shit done fast and effectively.
- arscan 8mo agoStructurally it’s about incentives not competency.
- i80and 8mo agoI really haven't found this to be true at all; corporations are just as dysfunctional or worse. It's more that there's fewer legal protections, so private surveillance is a great way for governments to launder the illegal things they want to do.
- phatfish 8mo agoThe dysfunction on the corporate side just gets swept under the rug, only in extreme cases does it get brought to the attention of the public. Governments have to operate in a more open manner (at least those with a reasonable amount of democratic accountability do). So the dysfunction is made public more often, and likely used over decades for political point-scoring. It's similar to open source development. Everyone moans that open source projects are full of infighting slowing down development compared to closed projects. Then, as soon as someone comes along and gets shit done like with systemd or the Linux kernel it's the opposite complaint. The doer is now a wannabe dictator ordering everyone about.
- delichon 8mo agoPart of the Miranda warning is "anything you say can and will be used against you." I think of the "will be" part as a lie, because they're usually not that diligent or competent even when they're that malicious. But it's still a good heuristic when it comes to giving your PII to the government. I used to be an outlier conspiracy theorist for believing that. To those coming around to it, welcome.
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago> it's still a good heuristic when it comes to giving your PII to the government The heuristic is to not participate in modern medicine?
- delichon 8mo agoSometimes you have to give it up, sometimes not, which is why it's a heuristic and not a firm rule.
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago> Sometimes you have to give it up, sometimes not, which is why it's a heuristic and not a firm rule Which is practically useless when we’re discussing HHS data.
- vladms 8mo agoWhat is the heuristic though? Not giving "normal data" still makes you an outlier, yes, probably they are not very smart, but at some point someone will say "let's round up people that gave us too few data, they are suspicious". I bet that if all conspiracy theorists will be more worried that their neighbors become crazy and would try to do something positive about it (talk to them, befriend them, influence them, etc.) the outcome might be better for everybody.
- koe123 8mo agoThe "small government" conservatives really showed their true faces in 2025 and 2026. Anyone espousing these ideas will not be taken seriously by me going forward.
- varispeed 8mo agoBear in mind that corruption is politically agnostic. If there are no checks and balances, any government can be bought.
- mothballed 8mo agoYes but at least in places like Venezuela and Philippines it can be bought cheap enough the common man might be able to access it. It's almost worse in the USA because the corruption is only accessible to those in quasi-oligarchical roles. There's some point at which increased corruption actually becomes more egalitarian (though obviously, not as egalitarian as zero corruption).
- rudhdb773b 8mo agoI don't know why this is down voted. It's a very valid point. In countries where the police and government officials can be bought for pocket change by the middle class, the masses have relatively more power vs the elite who control the central government.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 8mo agoIt’s a stupid point that ignores how corruption actually works, particularly when someone thinks being able to bribe the local police means an ordinary person in Venezuela has more power than an average American.
- 8mo ago
- Keyframe 8mo agoThe older one gets, the more one agrees with rms.
- mrexcess 8mo agoHas he been markedly wrong about any of these positions that he's staked out over the years, from closed hardware to mobile security?
- jacquesm 8mo agoNo, and you can tell how much this vexes particular individuals and institutions because the only kind of attack they can bring against him is character assassination, the tool of last resort.
- mindslight 8mo agoThe only thing I've found that RMS is wrong about is defining away firmware-stored-in-flash as "hardware", while getting stuck on firmware blobs loaded into coprocessors indicting whole systems. It appears to be a handwaving distinction formed from previous times - when the distinction didn't really matter, a line had to be drawn somewhere, and being able to do things like declare an entire CDROM as "free software" was a cool goal in and of itself. But these days we could use a much more vibrant definition centered around processor domains and security relationships. For example I see zero freedom difference between my ath10k with its firmware loaded from disk by libre software, and my x520 with firmware stored in onboard flash. Neither undermines the freedom or security of my workstation user domain, and both are unfree if I get the itch to dig into modifying my network cards.
- wibbily 8mo agoIIRC "firmware as hardware" only applies if nobody - not you, not the manufacturer - can update it. I.e. your laptop's BIOS is software, the controller in your washing machine is hardware. Of course, now washing machines connect to the Internet, so the obvious lines have blurred
- firasd 8mo agoBoth Trump presidencies have really shown how little check there is on the White House when it comes to coordinating among these agencies. Heck literally one of the first the things he did in Jan 2016 is try to find out which park ranger posted a sparse inauguration photo. It wouldn't even occur to me that he was the de facto boss of millions of people in this way Cause consider the previous status quo. It was considered somehow scandalous for Bill Clinton to have an opinion on what his AG Janet Reno was doing
- tgv 8mo agoRemember: every bit of data collected through a google-analytic, doubleclick, etc. link can potentially be abused for this as well. Techies have a responsibility as well. Remove them from your applications, or replace them with safer alternatives, and don't log (meta-)data just because it might be useful one day.
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago> every bit of data collected through a google-analytic, doubleclick, etc. link can potentially be abused for this as well I’m confused by this shoehorning. This article is about actual, not potential, abuse. It involves healthcare data the government owns being used in a novel and disturbing way. The only nexus to the private sector is in Palantir, but they aren’t bringing the data, just some analytic tools.
- bux93 8mo agoYou should still practice minimization of PII, also known as Data Minimization. Especially in the EU, where it's the law (GDPR).
- JumpCrisscross 8mo agoYou should also wash your hands after using the toilet. That’s about as relevant to HHS sharing data with DHS as what you’re talking about.
- nosuchthing 8mo agoMetadata is never deleted, only copied to more and more archives and databases. You're always being added to a list, and all of your metadata decides what lists you'll end up on in the future.
- tgv 8mo agoSo it's too late, but if the trend continues, the US goverment may well ask Google, Meta, etc. for their data, and get a more detailed list of undesirables. From their data, you can infer ethnicity, age, country of origin, education, political affiliation, etc. So, before it's too late, we, the people potentially enabling this data abuse, must think about consequences and morals. Also: today they come for Latinos, tomorrow can be your turn.
- jjdinho 8mo agoShameful
- hardreality 8mo ago[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 8mo agoStraw man. Trump is deporting fewer people than Obama did, and Obama wasn’t blowing Saudi Arabia’s military budget every year on his numbers.
- nailer 8mo ago[flagged]
- fallen_comrade 8mo agonice throwaway account, coward.
- hardreality 8mo ago[dead]
- maeln 8mo ago> If you can't accept this fact, You have the problem. Maybe learn grammar before giving grand politic lessons.
- hardreality 8mo ago[dead]
- lynx97 8mo agoIf that is all you can bring forth, you loose. "I call you stupid if you dont agree with me" is such a cheap shot, doesn't deserve any sympathy.
- voidUpdate 8mo agoHow many rights are you personally willing to give up so that people can be deported?
- maxerickson 8mo agoAmazing the hoops that people will jump through to not enact strong employer penalties.
- mvelbaum 8mo agothe "uniparty" benefits from illegal immigration so I guess that's why it's a nonstarter.
- boelboel 8mo agoMany Americans benefit from illegal immigration, it would kill the middle class in many places if illegal immigrants just went away all of a sudden. States like Texas can hardly survive without it, basically all politicians know this.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- rocmcd 8mo agoYou would think that if you genuinely wanted to curb illegal immigration, then this would be the way to do it. People come here for money. Take away the money and they will no longer come. Hell, you would probably have bipartisan support for nationwide crackdowns on employers who are employing anyone here illegally. They are undercutting American employees and dodging taxes. Who wouldn't be for that kind of law enforcement? Instead we get unaccountable masked men with guns murdering citizens and terrorizing an entire populace. Imagine if an "ICE raid" meant a team of accountants showed up at a business and gave them a hefty fine for employing anyone here illegally. It seems like that would be much more effective, which makes me genuinely wonder if the demonstration of strength through cruelty that we currently have hasn't been the goal all along.
- boelboel 8mo agoDoing this would immediately cause construction to become costlier as well as serious inflation on some other things (food, hotels ...). Americans were already constantly crying about Biden inflation, they can't handle this.
- tomaytotomato 8mo agoHow are Palantir so effective (as this article is alluding)? From a cynical British perspective, when I think of government departments and civil servants. I think inefficiency, data siloing, politics and lack of communication between departments and also internally not communicating between teams. Not withstanding a lack of cooperating and willingness to change. Did Palantir have a political mandate, or can they just cut through the bureaucracy or bypass it with technology?
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago> How are Palantir so effective? What are you using to conclude their effectiveness? It appears Palantir “brings up a dossier on each person, and provides a ‘confidence score’ on the person’s current address” [1]. That’s like VLOOKUP. On effectiveness, Trump is deporting fewer people than Obama did with a tenth of the budget. [1] https://www.404media.co/elite-the-palantir-app-ice-uses-to-find-neighborhoods-to-raid/ https://www.404media.co/elite-the-palantir-app-ice-uses-to-f...
- xrd 8mo agoWhoa, that's the story! I don't see that referenced in the 404media story, do you have a link/summary for that?
- JumpCrisscross 8mo agoAdded.
- RobertoG 8mo agowho say they are effective? They just have contacts. It's the privatization of what started as an intelligence program. Recommended watching (The REAL Story Behind Palantir's Dystopian Pre-Crime Takeover (w/ Whitney Webb)): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3DFZFoJC5s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3DFZFoJC5s
- SilverBirch 8mo agoAre they effective? Do you have data on the number of people they've correctly identified vs false-positives. In fact, do you have any evidence they're even trying to limit false positives? The reason they are able to very efficiently send a dozen ICE agents to a random persons home to hold them at gun point until they can prove their immigration status is because the goal is to send ICE agents around holding people at gun point and they're happy if they happen to also get it right sometimes.
- dayofthedaleks 8mo agoRelated HN thread: ICE using Palantir tool that feeds on Medicaid data (eff.org) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46756117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46756117
- SilverBirch 8mo agoIf I'm reading this correctly, they're just straight up violating the law. They're sharing information with ICE under an obligation to share information of aliens, but they're actually sharing everyone's information in an effort to identify aliens. That seems like a pretty slam shut case if there were any mechanism to investigate and prosecute it.
- drstewart 8mo agoWhere did you read they're sharing everyone's information?
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago> I'm reading this correctly, they're just straight up violating the law HHS says “under the Immigration and Nationality Act, ‘any information in any records kept by any department or agency of the government as to the identity and location of aliens in the US shall be made available to’ immigration authorities.” If that’s true, they’re following the law.
- globalise83 8mo agoKey part of what you wrote: "as to the identity and location of aliens" - so whatever claim they have to access health information applies to aliens. The big question is: are they harvesting citizens' health records illegally as part of this effort, and if so, when do those responsible see jail time?
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago> are they harvesting citizens' health records illegally as part of this effort, and if so, when do those responsible see jail time? I’m honestly curious if this would be a Privacy Act or HIPAA violation. The article seems to be unsure on this.
- bonsai_spool 8mo agoI’m also unsure, but I haven’t understood HIPAA to constrain governmental actions. It’s a short law so I will review it (not a lawyer all the same).
- throw0101a 8mo agoFrom the leftist-Communist rag (/s) Wall Street Journal: > It started out that way. At the beginning of 2025, 87% of ICE arrests were immigrants with either a prior conviction or a criminal charge pending, according to ICE data obtained by the Deportation Data Project. Only 13% of those arrested at the beginning of 2025 didn’t have either a conviction or a pending charge. > But the criminal share of apprehensions has declined as the months have gone on. By October 2025, the percentage of arrested immigrants with a prior conviction or criminal charge had fallen to 55%. Since October, 73% taken into ICE custody had no criminal conviction and only 5% had a violent criminal conviction, according to a Cato Institute review of ICE data. * https://archive.is/https://www.wsj.com/opinion/mass-deportation-trump-administration-ice-criminals-minnesota-tim-walz-kristi-noem-7f3bb88b https://archive.is/https://www.wsj.com/opinion/mass-deportat... Under Obama 3M illegal immigrants were removed, and there wasn't all of this drama. (Hint: this isn't about public safety or illegal immigration.)
- JumpCrisscross 8mo agoHas anyone calculated a hazard score for apprehension for illegal immigrants with a violent criminal conviction? As in, with dragnet deportation, are the violent ones also being picked up? Or are they actually safer today than they were a few years ago given Noem and Miller are more interested in making TikTok videos than pursuing hard-to-get criminals?
- ardme 8mo agoI have read the Obama era numbers are inflated because they counted turn aways at the border. It’s also a little interesting that Obama was able to be against illegal immigration without a ton of pushback. Why was that?
- exo762 8mo agoFor the same reason Nixon was able to establish OSHA without a ton of pushback.
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- pge 8mo agoWhat is not clear to me from the article is what data they are getting from CMS. The article references Medicaid data, but everyone that has access to Medicaid is legally present in the country. They have to be to qualify. Some possiblities: * They are going after people legally here on temporary visas such as SIV that give them access to medicaid * They are going after people that are not on medicaid and have no insurance but received care (either emergency care or charity care) at a hospital or clinic that takes medicaid (I don’t know if hospitals capture this information for CMS). * ?
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago> What is not clear to me from the article is what data they are getting from CMS They’re literally just pulling up addresses (404 Media). Replace Palantir with McKinsey and making an app for VLOOKUP makes more sense.
- pge 8mo agoI get that - the question is why CMS would have addresses for undocumented immigrants at all (assuming for the moment it is only undocumented that they are looking for). Undocumented immigrants are not eligible for Medicaid, so how and why would CMS have their names and addresses?
- alex1138 8mo agoI remember Peter Thiel saying that "we were going to invest in Facebook regardless" of the meeting with Zuckerberg I guess they just needed a Dumb Fuck to do whatever they wanted, Lifelog and whatever
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- self_awareness 8mo agoAs a non-American, I'm just wondering, why won't you help these people get legal citizenship status since it's clear as day most people want them in? Why won't you protest against current citizenship rules, since it's clear you want them to be changed? edit: I see it's just a simple "f** ice" and "you need to go" case. I'll show myself out
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago> since it's clear as day most people want them in? Not sure how you concluded this. Particularly for unskilled labour.
- self_awareness 8mo agoWell if ICE deports illegal immigrants, and you're anti-ICE, then you do want those illegal immigrants? Or how is this supposed to work?
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago> if ICE deports illegal immigrants, and you're anti-ICE, then you do want immigrants? No. I’m anti-murder. This logic is like saying someone who objects to the Nazis is racist against Germans.
- self_awareness 8mo agoSo you want to deport, but someone else than ICE should do it? Also, to be fair, nazis were Germans. Not aliens from outer space. Those were german people who identified with NSDAP party. Edit: I understand (well, kind of...) why people downvote me, but I'm really lost when trying to understand why they downvote you. I don't think I'll ever understand what's going on.
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago> you want to deport, but someone else than ICE should do it? I want it to be done without murder. Murder is bad. I don’t care if it’s done by ICE or the Pink Pony Friendly Airlift Service. They should do it per the law. They should not have to blow hundreds of thousands of dollars per deportation. And they should do it without murder, with murderers in their ranks being charged per the law. > to be fair, nazis were Germans …yes. That doesn’t make being anti-Nazi racist against Germans.
- ubermonkey 8mo agoThere is no morally defensible reason to work for Palantir.
- Ylpertnodi 8mo agoDo you purchase unilever products? Nike shoes? Etc, etc, etc. Not to be flippant, but morals are variable. Two of my kids are into investing, and some of their choices are 'morally indefensible', to me. We've had the discussions since they were old enough to be taught 'right' from wrong. Their aims are to increase the money they have, not to make anyone feel better, or judge others' choices.
- tgv 8mo agoI'm sorry, but the goal does not justify the means. Someone who wants to get more money, does not get a free pass on how this is achieved. As many have said: your actions show your morals. > Do you purchase unilever products? Nike shoes? Etc, etc, etc. So you actually support that idea.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- laylower 8mo agoI am sorry, but what did you expect? Since before Snowden we knew this was coming and this dystopian future is here only because we didn't care enough to do something about it. Now, where are all these 'I don't have anything to hide people?' I don't see them anywhere...
- irusensei 8mo agoIsn't this the company that NVIDIA is proudly partnering with?
- sailfast 8mo agoImpeach. Remove. Laws and protections do not just apply for citizens. They apply anyone in the United States.
- hakrgrl 8mo agoThey apply to people who are here illegally? Every county on earth has a border and doesn't allow people to cross unregulated.
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago> They apply to people who are here illegally? Yes. That’s how we lawfully deport them. You can’t run out and start serial killing illegal immigrants and then claim you aren’t a murderer.
- hakrgrl 8mo ago[flagged]
- ronbenton 8mo agoWe are on the darkest of paths. It’s like the current US administration is using our collective greatest fears about data privacy as a playbook.
- orochimaaru 8mo agoPalantir is just the data platform. Yeah, they have algorithms and software for aggregating large amounts if data and connecting them. They don’t “have” the data. It’s still with the government. The data shouldn’t be shared unless comsent is provided. But I’m unsure of why Palantir is the bad person for developing software. I don’t work for Palantir or hold their stock.
- tt_dev 8mo agoEven more reason to lie on the race box in medical records
- sawjet 8mo agoThey aren't targeting people for their race.
- jacquesm 8mo agoThat, + of course all the data that DOGE took from various other institutions while nobody was supervising them. You can bet all of this stuff has found its way into some kind of unified datastore by now.
- ghostoftiber 8mo ago....OK who signed a data sharing agreement without having the thought "who am I sharing the data with" when they were at the doctors?
- jmyeet 8mo agoHere's what people should take from all this: the Constitution isn't a magical document that guards your rights. It's a piece of paper. Judge, particularly Supreme Court judges, are political actors, not some neutral paragons of legal scholardom that come dwon from their Ivory Tower every now and again to hand down missives and maintain order. The classic example of the mental gymnastics do won't punish any of this is civil asset forfeiture. It's legalized theft. The Fourth mandment quite literally starts with: > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated ... You might think if you are stopped by police and you have cash on it, that it is your "effects" and it can't be seized without any crime but you'd be wrong. The legal theory surrounding this is that it is a civil action against property, not a criminal action against its owner, even though the basis for the civil action is a crime that not only doesn't have to be proven, it doesn't even have to be alleged. Medical info is just one prong of a massive effort to acquire all sorts of personal information, seemingly to build a database so citizens can be targeted. If you think it's going to stop at immigration enforcement, you're crazy. Examples: - AG Pam Bondi has sought voter rolls from the majority of states [1], which most recently came up as a random demand to end ICE terrorism in Minnesota [2], which has so far refused to hand over that information. Consider where Minnesota sits in the estimated number of undocumented migrants [3]. Why is ICE there and not, say, Texas or Florida? - DOGE previous accessed (and alleged copied) all the data from the Social Security Administration [4]. Why? What's happened to it? Who has it now? I personally believe this has long reached the point that in a just world, Palantir employees would be prosecuted and sent to jail. Palantir is (allegedly) knowingly providing the means to kill journalists and target people while they're at home so a missile strike will also kill their entire family [5][6]. This "immigration enforcement" goes well beyond undocumented migrants. Mahmoud Khalil, a legal permanent resident married to a US citizen, was targeted for organizing peaceful protests against Israel's genocide. At this point if you don't see how all these things are interconnected, you're burying your head in the sane. [1]: https://stateline.org/2025/07/16/trumps-doj-wants-states-to-turn-over-voter-lists-election-info/ https://stateline.org/2025/07/16/trumps-doj-wants-states-to-... [2]: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/26/pam-bondi-minnesota-voter-rolls-ice-surge https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/26/pam-bondi-mi... [3]: https://immresearch.org/publications/50-states-immigrants-by-number-and-share/ https://immresearch.org/publications/50-states-immigrants-by... [4]: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/whistleblower-responds-after-doj-confirms-doge-mishandled-social-security-data https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/whistleblower-responds-aft... [5]: https://www.972mag.com/ai-surveillance-gaza-palantir-dataminr/ https://www.972mag.com/ai-surveillance-gaza-palantir-datamin... [6]: https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/ https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
- commiepatrol 8mo agoWell, they are illegal so technically they shouldn't be getting medical aid here go back home and get medical help. Otherwise, totally fair game to use that data to catch em.