8 ms·

The world of Japanese snack bars

138 points by rmason 9mo ago

wolvoleo 9mo ago
Cool, in Holland snack bars are not homely at all. Some have just little cubbyholes in the wall where you insert a coin and take a croquette from behind a little window (we like buying stuff from behind windows I guess, lol). And if there is staff it's usually a big grumpy guy. And the food is really greasy. It's not a place you go for fun. It's more for quick fix food (though some of it is delicious though bad for you) I didn't like Japan much personally because it's so conservative and traditional (like it says there in the article LGBTQ+ is still an issue there, tattoos are frowned upon, life is pretty formal etc). So I don't feel at home there. And as such I've never really explored it. It's a nice country with nice people but I just don't fit in which was awkward for me. I'm more at home at a burning man kinda setting :) But this sounds pretty cool. If I do have to go there again some day I'll look one of these places up.
- anonymous908213 9mo ago
  I think LGBTQ acceptance in Japan is significantly better than any Western country. The "issue", as it manifests, is of a fundamentally different nature. Not everyone is open to it, of course, and legal marriage is not an option[1]. But while there are many people who are somewhat bigoted, Japan is not an Abrahamic country. Unlike any Christian or Islamic country, the number of people who hate LGBTQ individuals, want them all to go to Hell, and make their entire political identity based around hurting them, or actually committing violence against them, is significantly smaller. [1] Notably, the lack of legalised marriage is not because the population is too conservative. Rather, it is because the US forced a constitution on Japan which enshrines heterosexual marriage as constitutional law, and changing the constitution is significantly more difficult than changing a normal law. There is broad popular support for same-sex marriage, and it would almost certainly be legal if not for this fact.
  - hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago
    I travelled there with my same sex partner. We had zero issues in a single bed hotel room, and there were plenty of gay bars. We did find the cover charge difference for gays vs straights amusing (where gay entry was cheaper). I’m sure there are social issues, a local bartender told us they had linguistic limitations that acted as sort of barriers to expression, and I’m sure there are issues for gay youth, but as a whole it felt relatively similar to most western countries from a safety/friendliness perspective. Gay marriage is a slow turnaround, and given Japanese culture is socially conservative I imagine that might take a while, but marriage and social acceptance are not necessarily tightly coupled.
    - NalNezumi 9mo ago
      I can't find the article, but I read an article about the experience of an LGBTQ Californian that moved to Tokyo found it more friendly than US (including progressive state). The point was that in US LGBTQ is politicized. If you tell people about it, you have to either defend it (vs conservatives) or explain it (vs progressives, but with encouragement). Both got very exhausting fast for the person, even the well intentioned ones. In Japan, the general reaction from coworkers to landlords was へー, そうなんだ。 (oh ok, cool.) no follow up questions or prodding. Vast majority don't care enough about your private sexual preferences. (goodness sake people it's the country of Hentai, people there really don't fucking care about your private presences) They do, however, care when you politicize it (making it their issue) The trend is slow but good looking for LGBTQ right in Japan. It won't move forward like people expect in the west. I'd guess one or two more generations. The only risk factor I see is the west. The polarization and politization of the issue, seen from Japan, is making the conservative wings more cautious about the topic. Either case, Shinjuku 2chome will be a very welcoming place. My gay friend from Sweden love that place more than any supposed to be gay friendly place in Europe
      - qmarchi 9mo ago
        > In Japan, the general reaction from coworkers to landlords was へー, そうなんだ。 (oh ok, cool.) no follow up questions or prodding. That matches my experience pretty well, including the expats living here. Coming out to my friends was kinda relieving since we all hang out anyways, and _nothing's changed_.
- tokioyoyo 9mo ago
  Imo, the article is exaggerating quite a bit, and written from a perspective of a tourist, which is fair. Nowadays these bars aren’t hidden or try to be out of sight. Like there’s a whole google maps category just for these type of establishments. But in general, you’d expect what was outlined in the post. From my friends and etc., food might range from pretty bad to average. Might get charged service fee if you’re not hyperlocal to the bar. Also atmosphere, once again, depends. City, neighbourhood, sleeziness level and etc. About the gay stuff… Honestly it’s more of a “i don’t care just don’t show it off” attitude, rather than “no gays allowed”. But the “don’t show it off” part applies to straight people as well. Nobody is gonna do or say anything, but an auntie might shake their heads as they pass by. Tattoos are a bit different. If you’re white, nobody will care unless they’re very visible (face/neck). You’ll be barred from some establishments (e.g. onsens/gyms), but if it’s coverable with the covers then it’s fine. Mostly historical reasons, and people’s aversion from accidentally hanging out with the “troublesome crowd” as one would say.
  - hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago
    It’s worth pointing out that there are certainly establishments where tourists aren’t welcome. Ironically I’ve had some gay friends walked from a local only gay bar to the tourists welcome gay bar across the street :-)
    - tokioyoyo 9mo ago
      Oh definitely. I mean, my neighbourhood has a bar that doesn’t even allow people who don’t live in the area as well. I guess, the gay bars not allowing foreigners is for a different reason, but soft discrimination is very ubiquitous. On the bright side, there are hundreds of thousands of other establishments that will happily take your money.
      - hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago
        To be clear, I take zero issue with the bar exclusion and my friends are in the same position. The cultural differences are so substantial that it’s an understandable desire for locals not wanting to adapt theirs to suit ours.
- retired 9mo ago
  [dead]
- bigstrat2003 9mo ago
  > tattoos are frowned upon My understanding is that this isn't about tattoos per se, but that historically only yakuza would have them. So it's more about not wanting to deal with criminals than not liking tattoos in and of themselves.
  - ghaff 9mo ago
    That is my understanding as well. And, honestly, even if it wasn't a matter of criminals necessarily (often tattoos were associated with ex-military), until relatively recently, tattoos were a pretty clear class differentiator in the US as well.
  - numpad0 9mo ago
    The intention of no-tattoos policy is to be able to decline services without mentioning yakuza as a class, so to avoid discrimination lawsuits. But part time bathhouse shift managers might not be aware of that, and/or know that rules need to be enforced equally on all customers to be not outright discriminatory, and so mileages vary.
charcircuit 9mo ago
It's not a secret. They are public businesses and many are on Google Maps.
- embedding-shape 9mo ago
  Just as a helpful tip: "inside the secret world" is an colloquial term for just "here's an inside peek at something not so widely known", not that it's literally "secret" and hidden.
  - Klonoar 9mo ago
    These are widely known. The article is just using the standard annoying fetishism of Japan for clicks.
  - charcircuit 9mo ago
    Except what is in the article is widely known. The article only did a surface level overview which implies that the secret is the existence or concept of them. The article even eludes to this in saying that one of them was in an unmarked building.
christkv 9mo ago
When I hitchhiked around Japan in 1999 snackbars were our goto places to have a drink as there was always some affordable home cooking (I was pretty broke) and decently priced drinks. We also had such a great time meeting locales.
tempest_ 9mo ago
It is an interesting concept when contrasted with the disappearance of "third places" in the western world.
- petercooper 9mo ago
  I got to thinking how difficult a micro business like this would be to run in the UK. You'd have council hygiene inspectors, insurance, alcohol duties, zoning limitations, music licensing, and the business rates folks all over your back for starters.
  - while_true_ 9mo ago
    Same here in California. Zoning, permits, food inspections and handicap access requirements would make a small snack bar economically infeasible.
    - petercooper 9mo ago
      From being in California often and reading social media, I get the feeling California and UK share a lot of similarities in planning bureaucracy. Residential areas are sacrosanct and the idea of anyone running even a small public facing service business from the home is onerous (though, curiously, it's very common for dental or GP surgeries to be in converted residential property here).
reconnecting 9mo ago
Perfect Days (1) had a nice illustration of sunakku. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Days https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Days
tkgally 9mo ago
The article should have at least mentioned the contradiction between publicizing places whose business model is based on meaningful conversation and repeat customers to foreign tourists, who generally do not speak the local language and who are typically in the country for only a week or two.
PlatoIsADisease 9mo ago
If only food service paid decent money. I know the majority owner of a pretty massive fast food chain (600 stores, most franchises) and he was telling me he was offered 10M to sell the company. His entire life he worked day and night, and he would be getting $3M. (Mind you, he owns dozens of franchises, so he still keeps those) He brought his kid into the business, and I can tell he has a bit of envy that I own a small software company that within a few years is approaching 1M in revenue. There is less glamor and margins in food. I have some ideas of using my math/engineering skills to make low cost recipes that taste good, using my masters in Industrial Engineering to lower cooking/labor costs, but... economics pushes me towards high value. Any time I do the math on food service, I see myself making 100k/yr, and never 1M/yr.
- tempest_ 9mo ago
  Sysco makes a billion a year basically doing that.
  - ghaff 9mo ago
    They basically deliver food--not necessarily complete meals. But, yes, a lot of restaurants use them for food delivery. Probably not at the highest end but they can be pretty decent given good food prep.
    - tempest_ 9mo ago
      I don't know where you want to draw the line but imo they get pretty close to complete meals (https://foodie.sysco.com/ https://foodie.sysco.com/) especially when it comes to desserts and appetizers. The desserts are where I can tell the most since one restaurants lava cake is often dangerously close to every other mid tier restaurant.
- dismalaf 9mo ago
  You act like $100k/year isn't still well above average. Hell it's above what SWEs make in any country that's not the USA. But pertaining to this article, the key to tiny Japanese restaurants such as these snack bars is that their startup costs are extremely low, rents are low and since they're tiny, they don't need staff so they keep all the profit. Probably good enough to make an average living without too many worries.
NalNezumi 9mo ago
My British friend that lived in Kyoto had his favorite snac bar. He was accepted as a local and even had a whiskey bottle saved for him (privilege for the regulars!) Another snac bar that he brought me to had an interesting story. The snac bar was in an apartment complex (due to Japan's funny zoning laws) at the nightlife district, could maybe fit 5-6 max. The place was filled with blues and jazz LPs! When we went there, there was only one man sitting, eating omelets and a talking to the owner. Turns out the owner used to be a salary man in Tokyo, but got sick of the corporate banking life, took his savings, moved back to Kyoto to open his small bar. He loved music, particularly blues and jazz, so just bought an apartment and rebuilt it on his own as this jazz n blues bar. He barely made any money, lower than minimum wage. but he said to him it was a life style, and he enjoyed it and wouldn't have it any other way. The guy eating the omelet, turned out to be a pretty famous professor at Kyoto University. He had this deal with the owner that he would make him lunch boxes and dinner for the professor (omelet wasn't on the bars menu), and he hanged around there every night. They've had that setting going for 8 years and the owner laughed that he was essentially the professors wife, and a bad influence for his workaholics habit! There's a charm to those places, but they're best observed from the distance. The group of exchange student I was part of made a local bar close to the uni our hang out, because they had cheap beer and amazing food. But one day the owner politely told us they didn't want us to come back. That 10+ tall loud white people was ruining the third place this bar represented to the locals. Funny thing many of the students protested "I don't understand. We're customers. We're paying and bringing many customers!" they tried to convince the students "to you it's consumption but to us it's a community place". Few of the students would accept that answer, but obliged. Oddly only the French did understand the sentiment. (and the Swiss were the most entitled)
- guessmyname 9mo ago
  > […] and even had a whiskey bottle saved for him (privilege for the regulars!) Not a privilege. Anyone can do that. They usually keep the bottle(s) for up to 3 months. Source: I’m Japanese.
  - NalNezumi 9mo ago
    Sure, but at that time, at that place, for a foreigner it was quite rare! Source: I'm Japanese too ;]
nusl 9mo ago
Everything is "secret" now, I guess because it works to get clicks. If you believed Youtube videos now, there's nothing that isn't either secret, rare, or the best.
- guessmyname 9mo ago
  Japanese “snack” bars (izakayas), are 100% not a secret to anyone, be it Japanese or foreigners who’ve visited the country at least once in their life. They are as common as street vending machines, as taxis in any major city in the world, and restaurants of any kind in any place on Earth. Don’t fall for the meme → https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/thing-japan https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/thing-japan
  - mc3301 9mo ago
    Snack and Izakaya are very different things.
- swah 9mo ago
  I read the "secret" here as "doesn't have a sign facing the street".
hsyehbeidhh 9mo ago
[dead]
trollbridge 9mo ago
"Unlike the bars or nightclubs many tourists may imagine, snack bars are warm, home-like places," said Mayuko Igarashi, president and director of Snack Yokocho Culture Inc, which has been offering tours of snack bars across Japan for travellers since 2021. "The 'mama'… welcomes guests with a sense of personal care." “We found this really unique thing to serve local people, so now we’re going to exploit it with an endless stream of tourists.”
- dismalaf 9mo ago
  "Exploiting" it means the mamas running the bar make more money... They're literally entrepreneurs. And if they don't want to serve foreigners they can always just have Japanese-only signage like many other places already do.
- dukeyukey 9mo ago
  What's wrong with someone using an aspect of their culture to make a living?
- jamestimmins 9mo ago
  I think it's pretty unlikely that they visit bars who don't want the tourists. I often go on food tours in new cities (e.g. Secret Food Tours) and the restaurants they visit seem to like the consistent revenue stream during off-hours.
jamestimmins 9mo ago
Not snack bars, but tiny bars were absolutely one of my favorite things in Japan. The streets of 3-5 seat bars felt incredibly special and distinct from anything I've seen in the US, regardless of the presumably high % of their business that came from tourists.
- tkgally 9mo ago
  > the presumably high % of their business that came from tourists That's only in the areas frequented by tourists. The vast majority of such tiny bars cater mainly to locals. Lately I've been taking pictures of bar signs in Japanese cities: https://gally.net/barsigns/index.html https://gally.net/barsigns/index.html The sheer number of bars in such dense concentrations continues to impress me.
PacificSpecific 9mo ago
Love these places. My wife's best friends husband owns one in Osaka and it's always a great time when we go. I find conversation is a lot easier in places with an 8 seat max. I wish we had stuff like this in Vancouver.
dfajgljsldkjag 9mo ago
I find it unfortunate that this article is glorifying the quite exploitative industry of hostess bars in Japan. From Wikipedia: > A "snack bar" (スナックバー, sunakku bā), "snack" for short, refers to a kind of hostess bar. It is an alcohol-serving bar that employs female staff to serve and flirt with male customers. It is the kind of place where lonely men pay money to talk to hostesses, and while the "mama" runs the show, there is also a staff of young women who do most of the work. The example shown in the article, which happens to do speed dating and fortune telling, is absolutely not a central example of this kind of place.
- stevenhuang 9mo ago
  What makes you so confident you understand these places when you're not Japanese and had to look up the wiki page for it?
  - dfajgljsldkjag 9mo ago
    I know exactly what I'm talking about, but I linked a trustworthy source so that it's not just "I told you so". But if that's what you want: I'm Japanese and I understand this issue perfectly and you don't. It's exactly as I said it is. There I told you so. So go take a hike.
    - stevenhuang 9mo ago
      Comparing snack bars to hostess bars in the exploitive industry sense is pretty funny but you do you.
    - csa 9mo ago
      > I'm Japanese and I understand this issue perfectly and you don't. Um, I'm calling shenanigans on this one. You have a viewpoint that seems more like negatively-biased indirect knowledge of this part of Japanese culture. Were you born in Japan? Have you lived there as an adult? Have you frequented スナック and other types of hostess bars? If so, how did you discover them and with whom? If you’re older, how has the スナック scene changed over your lifetime?
rfiddeleuze 9mo ago
I seem to recall a bone machine in Gaspar Noe’s Enter the Void.
irthomasthomas 9mo ago
There is an episode of Japanology on the Sunakku Bars https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7s0z3i https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7s0z3i

138 points by rmason 9mo ago

Cool, in Holland snack bars are not homely at all. Some have just little cubbyholes in the wall where you insert a coin and take a croquette from behind a little window (we like buying stuff from behind windows I guess, lol). And if there is staff it's usually a big grumpy guy. And the food is really greasy. It's not a place you go for fun. It's more for quick fix food (though some of it is delicious though bad for you) I didn't like Japan much personally because it's so conservative and traditional (like it says there in the article LGBTQ+ is still an issue there, tattoos are frowned upon, life is pretty formal etc). So I don't feel at home there. And as such I've never really explored it. It's a nice country with nice people but I just don't fit in which was awkward for me. I'm more at home at a burning man kinda setting :) But this sounds pretty cool. If I do have to go there again some day I'll look one of these places up.

anonymous908213 9mo ago
I think LGBTQ acceptance in Japan is significantly better than any Western country. The "issue", as it manifests, is of a fundamentally different nature. Not everyone is open to it, of course, and legal marriage is not an option[1]. But while there are many people who are somewhat bigoted, Japan is not an Abrahamic country. Unlike any Christian or Islamic country, the number of people who hate LGBTQ individuals, want them all to go to Hell, and make their entire political identity based around hurting them, or actually committing violence against them, is significantly smaller. [1] Notably, the lack of legalised marriage is not because the population is too conservative. Rather, it is because the US forced a constitution on Japan which enshrines heterosexual marriage as constitutional law, and changing the constitution is significantly more difficult than changing a normal law. There is broad popular support for same-sex marriage, and it would almost certainly be legal if not for this fact.
- hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago
  I travelled there with my same sex partner. We had zero issues in a single bed hotel room, and there were plenty of gay bars. We did find the cover charge difference for gays vs straights amusing (where gay entry was cheaper). I’m sure there are social issues, a local bartender told us they had linguistic limitations that acted as sort of barriers to expression, and I’m sure there are issues for gay youth, but as a whole it felt relatively similar to most western countries from a safety/friendliness perspective. Gay marriage is a slow turnaround, and given Japanese culture is socially conservative I imagine that might take a while, but marriage and social acceptance are not necessarily tightly coupled.
  - NalNezumi 9mo ago
    I can't find the article, but I read an article about the experience of an LGBTQ Californian that moved to Tokyo found it more friendly than US (including progressive state). The point was that in US LGBTQ is politicized. If you tell people about it, you have to either defend it (vs conservatives) or explain it (vs progressives, but with encouragement). Both got very exhausting fast for the person, even the well intentioned ones. In Japan, the general reaction from coworkers to landlords was へー, そうなんだ。 (oh ok, cool.) no follow up questions or prodding. Vast majority don't care enough about your private sexual preferences. (goodness sake people it's the country of Hentai, people there really don't fucking care about your private presences) They do, however, care when you politicize it (making it their issue) The trend is slow but good looking for LGBTQ right in Japan. It won't move forward like people expect in the west. I'd guess one or two more generations. The only risk factor I see is the west. The polarization and politization of the issue, seen from Japan, is making the conservative wings more cautious about the topic. Either case, Shinjuku 2chome will be a very welcoming place. My gay friend from Sweden love that place more than any supposed to be gay friendly place in Europe
    - qmarchi 9mo ago
      > In Japan, the general reaction from coworkers to landlords was へー, そうなんだ。 (oh ok, cool.) no follow up questions or prodding. That matches my experience pretty well, including the expats living here. Coming out to my friends was kinda relieving since we all hang out anyways, and _nothing's changed_.
tokioyoyo 9mo ago
Imo, the article is exaggerating quite a bit, and written from a perspective of a tourist, which is fair. Nowadays these bars aren’t hidden or try to be out of sight. Like there’s a whole google maps category just for these type of establishments. But in general, you’d expect what was outlined in the post. From my friends and etc., food might range from pretty bad to average. Might get charged service fee if you’re not hyperlocal to the bar. Also atmosphere, once again, depends. City, neighbourhood, sleeziness level and etc. About the gay stuff… Honestly it’s more of a “i don’t care just don’t show it off” attitude, rather than “no gays allowed”. But the “don’t show it off” part applies to straight people as well. Nobody is gonna do or say anything, but an auntie might shake their heads as they pass by. Tattoos are a bit different. If you’re white, nobody will care unless they’re very visible (face/neck). You’ll be barred from some establishments (e.g. onsens/gyms), but if it’s coverable with the covers then it’s fine. Mostly historical reasons, and people’s aversion from accidentally hanging out with the “troublesome crowd” as one would say.
- hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago
  It’s worth pointing out that there are certainly establishments where tourists aren’t welcome. Ironically I’ve had some gay friends walked from a local only gay bar to the tourists welcome gay bar across the street :-)
  - tokioyoyo 9mo ago
    Oh definitely. I mean, my neighbourhood has a bar that doesn’t even allow people who don’t live in the area as well. I guess, the gay bars not allowing foreigners is for a different reason, but soft discrimination is very ubiquitous. On the bright side, there are hundreds of thousands of other establishments that will happily take your money.
    - hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago
      To be clear, I take zero issue with the bar exclusion and my friends are in the same position. The cultural differences are so substantial that it’s an understandable desire for locals not wanting to adapt theirs to suit ours.
retired 9mo ago
[dead]
bigstrat2003 9mo ago
> tattoos are frowned upon My understanding is that this isn't about tattoos per se, but that historically only yakuza would have them. So it's more about not wanting to deal with criminals than not liking tattoos in and of themselves.
- ghaff 9mo ago
  That is my understanding as well. And, honestly, even if it wasn't a matter of criminals necessarily (often tattoos were associated with ex-military), until relatively recently, tattoos were a pretty clear class differentiator in the US as well.
- numpad0 9mo ago
  The intention of no-tattoos policy is to be able to decline services without mentioning yakuza as a class, so to avoid discrimination lawsuits. But part time bathhouse shift managers might not be aware of that, and/or know that rules need to be enforced equally on all customers to be not outright discriminatory, and so mileages vary.

charcircuit 9mo ago

It's not a secret. They are public businesses and many are on Google Maps.

embedding-shape 9mo ago
Just as a helpful tip: "inside the secret world" is an colloquial term for just "here's an inside peek at something not so widely known", not that it's literally "secret" and hidden.
- Klonoar 9mo ago
  These are widely known. The article is just using the standard annoying fetishism of Japan for clicks.
- charcircuit 9mo ago
  Except what is in the article is widely known. The article only did a surface level overview which implies that the secret is the existence or concept of them. The article even eludes to this in saying that one of them was in an unmarked building.

christkv 9mo ago

When I hitchhiked around Japan in 1999 snackbars were our goto places to have a drink as there was always some affordable home cooking (I was pretty broke) and decently priced drinks. We also had such a great time meeting locales.

tempest_ 9mo ago

It is an interesting concept when contrasted with the disappearance of "third places" in the western world.

petercooper 9mo ago
I got to thinking how difficult a micro business like this would be to run in the UK. You'd have council hygiene inspectors, insurance, alcohol duties, zoning limitations, music licensing, and the business rates folks all over your back for starters.
- while_true_ 9mo ago
  Same here in California. Zoning, permits, food inspections and handicap access requirements would make a small snack bar economically infeasible.
  - petercooper 9mo ago
    From being in California often and reading social media, I get the feeling California and UK share a lot of similarities in planning bureaucracy. Residential areas are sacrosanct and the idea of anyone running even a small public facing service business from the home is onerous (though, curiously, it's very common for dental or GP surgeries to be in converted residential property here).

reconnecting 9mo ago

Perfect Days (1) had a nice illustration of sunakku. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Days https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Days

tkgally 9mo ago

The article should have at least mentioned the contradiction between publicizing places whose business model is based on meaningful conversation and repeat customers to foreign tourists, who generally do not speak the local language and who are typically in the country for only a week or two.

PlatoIsADisease 9mo ago

If only food service paid decent money. I know the majority owner of a pretty massive fast food chain (600 stores, most franchises) and he was telling me he was offered 10M to sell the company. His entire life he worked day and night, and he would be getting $3M. (Mind you, he owns dozens of franchises, so he still keeps those) He brought his kid into the business, and I can tell he has a bit of envy that I own a small software company that within a few years is approaching 1M in revenue. There is less glamor and margins in food. I have some ideas of using my math/engineering skills to make low cost recipes that taste good, using my masters in Industrial Engineering to lower cooking/labor costs, but... economics pushes me towards high value. Any time I do the math on food service, I see myself making 100k/yr, and never 1M/yr.

tempest_ 9mo ago
Sysco makes a billion a year basically doing that.
- ghaff 9mo ago
  They basically deliver food--not necessarily complete meals. But, yes, a lot of restaurants use them for food delivery. Probably not at the highest end but they can be pretty decent given good food prep.
  - tempest_ 9mo ago
    I don't know where you want to draw the line but imo they get pretty close to complete meals (https://foodie.sysco.com/ https://foodie.sysco.com/) especially when it comes to desserts and appetizers. The desserts are where I can tell the most since one restaurants lava cake is often dangerously close to every other mid tier restaurant.
dismalaf 9mo ago
You act like $100k/year isn't still well above average. Hell it's above what SWEs make in any country that's not the USA. But pertaining to this article, the key to tiny Japanese restaurants such as these snack bars is that their startup costs are extremely low, rents are low and since they're tiny, they don't need staff so they keep all the profit. Probably good enough to make an average living without too many worries.

NalNezumi 9mo ago

My British friend that lived in Kyoto had his favorite snac bar. He was accepted as a local and even had a whiskey bottle saved for him (privilege for the regulars!) Another snac bar that he brought me to had an interesting story. The snac bar was in an apartment complex (due to Japan's funny zoning laws) at the nightlife district, could maybe fit 5-6 max. The place was filled with blues and jazz LPs! When we went there, there was only one man sitting, eating omelets and a talking to the owner. Turns out the owner used to be a salary man in Tokyo, but got sick of the corporate banking life, took his savings, moved back to Kyoto to open his small bar. He loved music, particularly blues and jazz, so just bought an apartment and rebuilt it on his own as this jazz n blues bar. He barely made any money, lower than minimum wage. but he said to him it was a life style, and he enjoyed it and wouldn't have it any other way. The guy eating the omelet, turned out to be a pretty famous professor at Kyoto University. He had this deal with the owner that he would make him lunch boxes and dinner for the professor (omelet wasn't on the bars menu), and he hanged around there every night. They've had that setting going for 8 years and the owner laughed that he was essentially the professors wife, and a bad influence for his workaholics habit! There's a charm to those places, but they're best observed from the distance. The group of exchange student I was part of made a local bar close to the uni our hang out, because they had cheap beer and amazing food. But one day the owner politely told us they didn't want us to come back. That 10+ tall loud white people was ruining the third place this bar represented to the locals. Funny thing many of the students protested "I don't understand. We're customers. We're paying and bringing many customers!" they tried to convince the students "to you it's consumption but to us it's a community place". Few of the students would accept that answer, but obliged. Oddly only the French did understand the sentiment. (and the Swiss were the most entitled)

guessmyname 9mo ago
> […] and even had a whiskey bottle saved for him (privilege for the regulars!) Not a privilege. Anyone can do that. They usually keep the bottle(s) for up to 3 months. Source: I’m Japanese.
- NalNezumi 9mo ago
  Sure, but at that time, at that place, for a foreigner it was quite rare! Source: I'm Japanese too ;]

nusl 9mo ago

Everything is "secret" now, I guess because it works to get clicks. If you believed Youtube videos now, there's nothing that isn't either secret, rare, or the best.

guessmyname 9mo ago
Japanese “snack” bars (izakayas), are 100% not a secret to anyone, be it Japanese or foreigners who’ve visited the country at least once in their life. They are as common as street vending machines, as taxis in any major city in the world, and restaurants of any kind in any place on Earth. Don’t fall for the meme → https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/thing-japan https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/thing-japan
- mc3301 9mo ago
  Snack and Izakaya are very different things.
swah 9mo ago
I read the "secret" here as "doesn't have a sign facing the street".

hsyehbeidhh 9mo ago

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trollbridge 9mo ago

"Unlike the bars or nightclubs many tourists may imagine, snack bars are warm, home-like places," said Mayuko Igarashi, president and director of Snack Yokocho Culture Inc, which has been offering tours of snack bars across Japan for travellers since 2021. "The 'mama'… welcomes guests with a sense of personal care." “We found this really unique thing to serve local people, so now we’re going to exploit it with an endless stream of tourists.”

dismalaf 9mo ago
"Exploiting" it means the mamas running the bar make more money... They're literally entrepreneurs. And if they don't want to serve foreigners they can always just have Japanese-only signage like many other places already do.
dukeyukey 9mo ago
What's wrong with someone using an aspect of their culture to make a living?
jamestimmins 9mo ago
I think it's pretty unlikely that they visit bars who don't want the tourists. I often go on food tours in new cities (e.g. Secret Food Tours) and the restaurants they visit seem to like the consistent revenue stream during off-hours.

jamestimmins 9mo ago

Not snack bars, but tiny bars were absolutely one of my favorite things in Japan. The streets of 3-5 seat bars felt incredibly special and distinct from anything I've seen in the US, regardless of the presumably high % of their business that came from tourists.

tkgally 9mo ago
> the presumably high % of their business that came from tourists That's only in the areas frequented by tourists. The vast majority of such tiny bars cater mainly to locals. Lately I've been taking pictures of bar signs in Japanese cities: https://gally.net/barsigns/index.html https://gally.net/barsigns/index.html The sheer number of bars in such dense concentrations continues to impress me.

PacificSpecific 9mo ago

Love these places. My wife's best friends husband owns one in Osaka and it's always a great time when we go. I find conversation is a lot easier in places with an 8 seat max. I wish we had stuff like this in Vancouver.

dfajgljsldkjag 9mo ago

I find it unfortunate that this article is glorifying the quite exploitative industry of hostess bars in Japan. From Wikipedia: > A "snack bar" (スナックバー, sunakku bā), "snack" for short, refers to a kind of hostess bar. It is an alcohol-serving bar that employs female staff to serve and flirt with male customers. It is the kind of place where lonely men pay money to talk to hostesses, and while the "mama" runs the show, there is also a staff of young women who do most of the work. The example shown in the article, which happens to do speed dating and fortune telling, is absolutely not a central example of this kind of place.

stevenhuang 9mo ago
What makes you so confident you understand these places when you're not Japanese and had to look up the wiki page for it?
- dfajgljsldkjag 9mo ago
  I know exactly what I'm talking about, but I linked a trustworthy source so that it's not just "I told you so". But if that's what you want: I'm Japanese and I understand this issue perfectly and you don't. It's exactly as I said it is. There I told you so. So go take a hike.
  - stevenhuang 9mo ago
    Comparing snack bars to hostess bars in the exploitive industry sense is pretty funny but you do you.
  - csa 9mo ago
    > I'm Japanese and I understand this issue perfectly and you don't. Um, I'm calling shenanigans on this one. You have a viewpoint that seems more like negatively-biased indirect knowledge of this part of Japanese culture. Were you born in Japan? Have you lived there as an adult? Have you frequented スナック and other types of hostess bars? If so, how did you discover them and with whom? If you’re older, how has the スナック scene changed over your lifetime?

rfiddeleuze 9mo ago

I seem to recall a bone machine in Gaspar Noe’s Enter the Void.

irthomasthomas 9mo ago

There is an episode of Japanology on the Sunakku Bars https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7s0z3i https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7s0z3i