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> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power.

• CalRobert 9mo ago
  Perhaps people in the future will visit the US for the dieselpunk nostalgia, the same way people like seeing classic cars in Cuba.
  • psychoslave 9mo ago
    I strongly doubt any current car will stand longevity of those cars. The maintenance entry cost of anything with integrated electronic is just several order of magnitude in complexity.
    • funkyfiddler69 9mo ago
      What? How so? Isn't it just a bunch of PCBs and sensors whereas gas powered cars are a bunch of awesome nonesense you can gently whack against each other to create different notes and tones? The former requires a special printer while the latter requires tons of machines for precision engineering and the industrial equivalent of smitheries and blacksmiths!
      • CalRobert 9mo ago
        Well there’s the drm
      • lostlogin 9mo ago
        Ever tried working on a new car versus fixing a pre 1980’s car? Damned if I have any idea what anything is or what to do on a new one. I had a moderate chance of diagnosing and fixing my old Triunph.
        • jyounker 9mo ago
          If you have the right tools then it's easier than ever. To put a different spin, a friend's father was a very successful auto mechanic. What he loved about it was the mental challenge of diagnostics. The stranger the problem, the better for him. A few years back he sold his shop. There were two reasons: 1) He made f** you money, and retired decades earlier than he'd expected. 2) For many years he'd felt like the daily intellectual challenge was gone. His repeated refrain was that modern self-diagnostic systems were good enough that it took away most of the day-to-day intellectual challenge.
          • bluGill 9mo ago
            Until the computer dies and you can't get the replacement part.
          • cucumber3732842 9mo ago
            Identifying which assemblies to replace is easier than ever. But there are an ever increasing number of assemblies with a "non starter to anyone other than the OEM" up front manufacturing set up cost. And when the OEM drops support......
    • jansper39 9mo ago
      Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars - primarily because of the integrated electronics. ECUs can detect when engines are running rich or lean, knocking or 100 other edge cases and adjust accordingly. Switch to an EV and it's even simpler, you can get away with a motor, battery, BMS and inverter and you can get just about any soapbox to move.
      • psychoslave 9mo ago
        Reliable is only slightly related to be maintenable. ECU embedding makes the whole system more complexe. That is not necessary absolutely a bad thing, but the trade-off is different. And there is on top of that a different topic which is how electronics are used to enforce obsolescence and make harder to maintain the vehicle without special equipment of the specific firm. This can also be enforced with more analogical stuffs of course, but electronic devices are more likely to be used this way.
      • vee-kay 9mo ago
        When your ICE vehicle breaks down on the highway, you can get it towed and repaired at any half-decent car mechanic. If you don't like his cost quote or his service/repairs, you can get your car taken elsewhere (usually the mechanic can get it running in a short while, unless it is a major breakage problem) for a second opinion or service/repairs. When your EV breaks down, you won't even bother to get it towed, because the only ones who can repair it are the (very expensive) showroom of the car manufacturer you bought it from, or their authorized (and very expensive) service center (and those will be very few of them in a city, and forget about getting such EV Service centers in the suburbs or rural areas). And you have to accept whatever cost quote and dependencies (additional upgrades to "fix" the "issue") he specifies. Good luck trying to figure it out or getting a second opinion, unless you have an EV industry expert as a friend or family member. The EVs are white elephants. They look good while they last. But once they start breaking down, you will be paying through your nose just to keep it ticking along. Whereas that 30-years old ICE car of your grandpa? That rustbucket can be repaired (eventually to full functionality and best looks) in your home garage by you and family/friends if you have the knowhow (or want to learn it), and can afford the time and spare parts cost (which are affordable for middle class, except if it is a vintage car or sports/luxury car). EVs will be the deathknell for the hobbyist market and small-scale auto shops. And don't even get me started on how easily and dangerously EVs can be hacked/hijacked by hackers.
    • deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
  • joe_mamba 9mo ago
    Feels bad faith to shit on people from your ivory tower, just because they can't afford to ditch their reliable beaters and buy a new car. Have you seen wage growth vs car price increases lately? Not everyone is on a remote six figure US tech job. Try to view and judge things from outside your bubble as well. I'd also dump my ol reliable ICE car that's now probably worth less than a fancy electric bicycle, if someone just gave me an EV for free ;) But since I'm poor and can't afford EV prices with decent range, nor can I afford a home with a parking place with charger, then ICE it is. European here btw, not american.
    • nikanj 9mo ago
      Look at the average car payment in the US, and the average car sale price The ”americans can’t afford EVs” argument falls totally apart when the average(!) sale price is over $50k and you can get a perfectly good Leaf for $25k
      • joe_mamba 9mo ago
        Good point but that can be explained by familiarity inertia. People who have 50k to blow on a new car are anything but young buyers, with the average age of a new car buyer in the US is around 53 years old. And boomers and gen-X are used to owning ICEs, so there you go. Millennials and Zoomers would be more open to EV adoption but they have a lot less disposable income to buy new cars.
        • david-gpu 9mo ago
          Meanwhile, bicycles and e-bikes cost a fraction of a car.
          • joe_mamba 9mo ago
            Yes, and? They're different tools for different purposes. Such a disingenuous comment.
            • 9mo ago
  • thrance 9mo ago
    Ain't gonna be any diesel in the future. Peak oil has passed, now it's only going downhill.
• pear01 9mo ago
  Yes, not to mention the fact that Chinese EVs can't be sold here... protectionism for weak American companies that can't compete globally. We've gone from an automotive superpower and the land of Henry Ford to the government propping up automakers and depriving Americans of free choice. If Chinese cars would actually be allowed to sold here they would sell like Toyota Camrys.
  • nielsbot 9mo ago
    Interesting that Canada agreed to break with the US on EV tariffs. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46648778 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46648778 It's limited but I feel like Canada aligning themselves at all with China over the US is an interesting development.
    • pear01 9mo ago
      It's a good point but imo not really surprising when the President of the United States essentially threatened to invade Canada and Greenland. This is classic multipolar politics, trade the two behemoths against each other so they don't roll over one day and just squish you. By alienating Canada and Europe we've handed China a great gift.
      • lern_too_spel 9mo ago
        It's only getting started. Do you think Europe is going to use American networking equipment when America has shown that it will use its military against Europe? American grid technology?
        • willvarfar 9mo ago
          And what about all those huge pending orders for F35 in ... Denmark and Canada? Etc.
          • nickserv 9mo ago
            Denmark ordered more in October. Canada talks a lot, but so far has done nothing concrete about reducing their order. You would think they would urgently cancel and get Gripens and/or Rafales. Wonder what's going on behind the scenes.
• fooker 9mo ago
  > And let’s be real, “car enthusiasts” are going to disappear in one or two generations. Not sure if you have realized this, but we have a pretty decent numbers of horse enthusiasts now.
  • sambapa 9mo ago
    Maybe you’re the kind of person who believes the glass is always full if you can make the glass arbitrarily small.
    • fooker 9mo ago
      If I’m a glass enthusiast or glass-filling-liquid enthusiast, sure if the alternative is those things not existing!
  • onion2k 9mo ago
    Sure, but compared to an era when horses were used as a practical form of transport the number is effectively zero. Horses are a novelty that wealthy people play with. ICE cars will go the same way.
    • fooker 9mo ago
      I think we are going to be driving hybrids in large numbers for several decades until there's a new battery technology that triples energy density over the state of the art now. It can be invented sooner of course, technology prediction never really works.
      • pjc50 9mo ago
        Apart from Toyotas, hybrids are kind of unpopular precisely because they're a compromise. Not many people who do make the switch to EV go back. Additional tipping points will come when cities start banning combustion engines on emissions grounds. Then gas stations start closing. After a while you get the reverse condition to EV range anxiety: having to drive further and further out of your way to fill up. Maybe you get a script-flipping service, an EV comes to the few remaining unconverted combustion vehicles with a small bowser of fuel.
• ejoso 9mo ago
  How many generations are we even into cars? Maybe 4ish? Most kids alive but not yet driving are likely to own only hybrid ma or electrics. Seems like a relatively short term problem overall.
• tobyhinloopen 9mo ago
  EU automaters fail at making modern cars. They just put a bunch of screens in there with awful software. If you go all screens, just commit like Tesla. If you can't beat Tesla, just stick with minimal screens and use buttons. Somewhere between 2010 and 2020, most automakers went crazy with their designs and it went all downhill from there.
  • quantum_magpie 9mo ago
    I have a 2020 Fiat 500 Abarth, and it is absolutely perfect: There is a screen (I think 7") for Android Auto/CarPlay/radio/nav, and every single other function in the car has a physical button. It is also absolutely gorgeous - pinnacle of design, IMO
    • PunchyHamster 9mo ago
      That's about what I want from interior - any builtin infotainment will get out of date, any more electronics is just stuff to eventually break
    • gambiting 9mo ago
      Our 2021 Volkswagen e-Up is like this. There is a tiny(like 3" tiny) screen for the radio, bluetooth and reverse camera, everything else is analogue and has physical buttons. It's honestly best of the best Volkswagen design, what they did with their newer cars in terms of interior usability is a travesty.
      • LightBug1 9mo ago
        They fell for Tesla-fication ... and are only now waking up to the mistake.
    • trgn 9mo ago
      i still miss the interior of my 2010 fiat punto
  • jansper39 9mo ago
    From this year all EU cars will have physical buttons for heater controls, media etc.
• aryonoco 9mo ago
  Car enthusiast here. I raced in Formula Ford in Europe in my younger days. I still dream about the day I drove a 911 GT2. Nearly every car I’ve ever owned has been a manual. But with the ridiculous tax incentives here in Australia (at least while they last), my new car turned out to be an EV. Specifically the Hyundai Ioniq 5 N. And let me tell you, while the logical part of my brain knows that the gear shifts and the exhaust notes and everything about it is “fake”, when I’m driving it around a track or a challenging B road, every part of my body is fooled into thinking it’s real. And reluctant as I might be to admit it, it might just be the most fun car I’ve ever had Is it perfect? No. I wish it was 10cm lower to the ground. I wish it was at least 600kg lighter. But it has completely disabused me of the notion that electric cars can’t be fun.
  • bwv848 9mo ago
    And that’s based on a family car platform—wait until you drive something more purpose-built. Take a look at the Renault 5 Turbo E, the work-in-progress electric A110 and 718, or the more affordable SC01. Fun EVs are definitely coming in the next 5 to 10 years.
  • pjc50 9mo ago
    The Ioniq 5N is extremely funny on paper. It's not wildly expensive, nor is it greatly modified from stock, but the engineers decided to just completely overspec the torque on what is otherwise an ordinary family car. So you get a 0-60 time of about three seconds. I'm slightly surprised there aren't more cheap electric "hot hatches", but I think that market is dead even in ICE cars - young people don't have much free cash, aren't interested, and the insurers won't let them either.
    • gogusrl 9mo ago
      The Volvo EX30 / MG4 XPower would fit in the hot hatch / sub-compact crossover crossover. Both cars are the size of a raised VW Polo at 4.2m length while having over 400hp and around 3.5 secs to 60. While not exactly cheap, you can get the MG for under 30k eur if you shop around for some discounts and the volvo at around 35-40k. considering a 300hp golf R is over 50k eur they're pretty great options for some cheap fun. Cheap as in total cost of ownership, not just purchase price. Also, the SC01 people just announced that they plan to bring it to Europe [1] so that's gonna be a great option. [1] https://insideevs.com/news/784884/sc01-electric-coupe-roadster-europe-2026/ https://insideevs.com/news/784884/sc01-electric-coupe-roadst...
• morshu9001 9mo ago
  Not that many Americans are car enthusiasts. The most popular cars have been basic commuters for decades.
  • PunchyHamster 9mo ago
    It's hard to get basic commuter without overload of tech these days
    • KoolKat23 9mo ago
      Certain tech is cheap. I wouldn't classify that as non-basic. Chuck a few screens in the cabin is cheap. Matrix LED headlights less so.
    • g947o 9mo ago
      What do you mean? If you look at a Toyota Camry/Corolla, there is barely anything that is "techy" in 2026. (not in a negative way)
  • Slothrop99 9mo ago
    While that is true, the new car market has narrowed to the point where most of the buyers want something overpowered for their money. The most popular cars are actually buying these when they are 10+ years old. (I śaw recently that the USA market is about 16M cars.. this would have been low figure years ago. But they are barely selling 'basic commuter cars'.)
  • amanaplanacanal 9mo ago
    Aren't the most popular "cars" in the US actually SUVs and light trucks?
    • bluedino 9mo ago
      Mostly. The Camry, Civic, and Corolla are up there though. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g64457986/bestselling-cars-2025/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g64457986/bestselling-cars...
• surajrmal 9mo ago
  EVs are sold as a luxury product in the US. ICE cars are familiar, convenient (no need to figure out how to install a home charger), and otter cheaper (lower initial cost, service is cheaper, value maintains for much longer, etc). I bought electric, but I recognize it's a privilege to be able to do so. If competitively priced EVs hit the market, consumers would buy them in much bigger numbers. Manufacturers want to use EVs as a way to redefine themselves and make more money and seemingly the industry is colluding to keep them premium with a shorter shelf life.
• speeder 9mo ago
  I am in Portugal right now. You know something we don’t have often here? Garages. For example in my neighborhood most cars are parallel parked, people are living in centuries old houses converted into high density condos, there are no garages. So what is more practical, charging your car overnight without an electric plug or going to the gas station for a few minutes?
  • jasoncartwright 9mo ago
    You use kerbside charging. Unlike petrol, electricity comes to you.
    • rcxdude 9mo ago
      This is how it needs to work, but in practice it doesn't really exist right now. (And, in the few places where it does exist, the price basically destroys a lot of the running costs advantages of an EV).
      • jasoncartwright 9mo ago
        I've been charging from lampposts and other street chargers for 11 years now
  • muzani 9mo ago
    I do have a garage and 'fuel' is half the cost of my previous, smaller ICE. We're considering solar power to get it practically free. There's some nicer differences like leaving the air-conditioning on constantly because there's no pollution and it's also practically free. It's nice to have a giant battery instead of requiring an engine to constantly recharge it to run the electronics.
    • coderenegade 9mo ago
      That's cost, not practicality. Like it or not, the EV isn't as flexible when it comes to ownership, because you need a place to charge it. A product that is less practical has to be cheaper to compete in the market.
• baxtr 9mo ago
  Nothing is done ever. Remember when the U.S. deeply feared Japan's rapidly growing economy? Whenever I read or hear definitive statements like that I heavily bet on the other side.
  • joe_mamba 9mo ago
    > Remember when the U.S. deeply feared Japan's rapidly growing economy They DID fear them and took action to gimp their industry. Read the Plaza Accord and the aftermath to the Japanese economy.
• samiv 9mo ago
  This is exactly so. Not only is the USA hurting itself by distancing itself from it's former allys in policy and trade but it's forcing the rest of the world including EU to look more towards east for trade partners and temporarily for military support until Germany rearms itself. Canadians already took the lead and are now taking steps to let Chinese EV manufacturers into the Canadian markets with less tax/tariff. Meanwhile Europe is still struggling a lot with coming to terms with new world order. They've been sucking up to the USA too long since the WW2. German economy is largely dependant on car manufacturing and China is threatening this. But something is going to have to give now.
• ColonelPhantom 9mo ago
  > Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete with the Chinese. Huh? This comment sounds extremely America-centric to me. Porsche sells more cars into Europe than North America, despite taking a bigger there (-13-16% vs 0%)! In general I don't think Porsche is representative of the car market as a whole, given their cars are all premium sports cars to at least some degree. If you want more representative numbers look at more mass-market manufacturers. Notably, the Volkswagen group has a huge 20%+ market share in the EU, while it is below 5% in the USA. Renault is another example of a strong EU-centric brand and manufacturer with over 10% market share, even over 25% at home in France. Ford is a good example of the opposite, having 13% market share in the USA and only 2-3% here. Stellantis is strong in both markets, but has significant differentiation, even having different brands in both markets.
• fifticon 9mo ago
  Well, currently US _are_ ICE enthusiasts, lamentable as that may be.
• gred 9mo ago
  > Practicality beats enthusiasm for 95% of car use. About two years ago I rented an electric car for a few days. I felt like I wasted a ton of time finding a charging station, jumping through phone app hoops to get the charging process started, and then waiting for the car to charge. I've stayed away from electric rentals since, even though they're often cheaper.
  • estsauver 9mo ago
    This is the equivalent of setting up a developer environment for charging a car. Once you have a car that's working, and you know how to connect to the app and charge it, almost all these problems go away. If you're in a place that has a lot of public chargers near your destination that you're already going to, then it's even easier, and it just becomes trivial. That being said, I don't think I would want to rent a car that didn't have a place to charge it or a very easy-to-use fast charger nearby.
    • NetMageSCW 9mo ago
      Until NACS and plug and go are uniquitous, going on a trip not in a Tesla is a gamble of having the right app on your phone, and that you will be able to reach working chargers. I think we are still a couple of years away from other manufacturers catching up to Tesla and making road trips for most people useful.
  • hagbarth 9mo ago
    For rentals I get that. We own 2 EVs and a charger at home. Easiest driving experience ever. We just plug it in.
    • lostlogin 9mo ago
      I’m terms of upgrading your daily life, never going to a petrol station is a great upgrade. Haven’t quite made it in our house, we went once or twice last year to charge on a long trip. Didn’t go in.
  • cyh555 9mo ago
• costcopizza 9mo ago
  I can 100% confidently say the average US buyer is not an auto enthusiast. Cars are appliances to the vast majority of people here. There are multiple other factors for the relatively low adoption of EVs compared to China.
  • bluedino 9mo ago
    > I can 100% confidently say the average US buyer is not an auto enthusiast. Cars are appliances to the vast majority of people here. Only like 1-2% of new cars are manual transmission here. A lot of the enthusiast market complains that everything is an automatic these days, even high end sports cars.
    • projektfu 9mo ago
      I like manual transmissions but I think DCTs are an improvement for the average car. They seem to have a lot less "hunting" than the typical torque-converter automatic and good precision for the driving conditions. It is easy to put them into a manual-select mode. And, of course, they don't seem to stall.
      • bluedino 9mo ago
        The manual transmission crowd cannot be convinced. Even when you show them the performance advantages etc. They just want 'fun' and 'engaging', however they define that.
        • bluGill 9mo ago
          I've driven both. I don't know how to define what I feel, but the true clutch is more "fun and engaging". I still went with a EV because it is the right choice, but I want the ICE with manual and if money was limitless I'd have a collection (plus a personal mechanic to keep them all running)
          • wazoox 9mo ago
• bartread 9mo ago
  I get the impression that what the Chinese want out of a car is different and, realistically, a bit more aligned with the trajectory of human progress as well. I remember the (UK) Top Gear episode, which I'd guess must be at least 15 years old now, where they were talking about Chinese car brands, like Roewe, and they were ripping on them for being a bit crap in various ways (performance, not that fun to drive, etc.), but they also highlighted that what's important to Chinese car buyers is equipment level and having the latest tech[0] so, even though the cars at the time weren't the best, they were packed with gadgets and creature comfort. Add 15 years of rapid progress onto that and it's not surprising that China is dominating in the EV space, because it aligns so well with what Chinese buyers might be looking for in a vehicle. [0] And having seen what traffic jams in Chinese cities can look like it entirely makes sense to optimise for comfort and engagement whilst sitting still or in stop go traffic, than for driving experience when you're never really going to experience the handling anyway.
• tedggh 9mo ago
  “Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” Who told them?
  • WorldMaker 9mo ago
    The marketers of the same companies that aren't trying to sell them small, cheap, practical EVs and want everyone to pay for high margin trucks and SUVs.
• AndyMcConachie 9mo ago
  It has everything to do with regulation and almost nothing to do with "car enthusiasts".
• wiseowise 9mo ago
  I'm a "car enthusiast" and even I understand that holding onto ICE is like holding onto horses because cowboys look cool. It is a distilled macho culture like those old Marlboro ads.
  • bluGill 9mo ago
    I have a lot of ICEs - they are collectors items I keep in the shed unless there is a parade. My EVs are the daily drivers, not as fun, but more practical. The above isn't quite true - there are some "daily" ICEs yet because EVs aren't in all niches and I don't replace things instantly even if they were. The idea is the future that is coming closer and closer to reality.
  • NetMageSCW 9mo ago
    You are wrong - it is like holding onto horses because cars require carrying a mechanic to get anywhere. BEVs aren’t ready for every use and every place and every one in the US by at least a decade, so keeping an ICE / buying one today is the pragmatic choice.
    • wiseowise 9mo ago
      > EVs aren’t ready for every use and every place and every one in the US by at least a decade Gee, I wonder why.
• dv_dt 9mo ago
  Are you talking about ICE car enthusiasts only? For general car modders and enthusiasts, it may take a few more generations of production releases before more crop up, but I think more EV car enthusiasts will emerge after more and lower cost EV powered systems come out from factory systems optimized for higher volume. With that sheer amount of gear accessible over time, custom makers and mod products will find ways to modify and reassemble it.
• storus 9mo ago
  EU car manufacturers decided that cheaper-to-make electric cars must be sold as luxury vehicles and failed to achieve economies of scale China did with their underwhelming initial models they kept improving relentlessly every year.
  • pjc50 9mo ago
    The corner is turning on this, with e.g. the Renault 5 EV being extremely popular: https://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2026/01/france-full-year-2025-weakest-market-in-50-years-renault-clio-1-renault-5-2-in-december/ https://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2026/01/france-full-year-202... I've test driven one, fun little car, decent provision of some non-touchscreen controls. Ironically I think Tesla really opened up the EV market at all in the West by starting as a luxury option and working downwards. People don't want to feel they're taking a "hair shirt" option. "EVs are for rich people" has probably sold more cars than "EVs are for poor people" messaging would have. The VW ID4 is winning the middle of the range family SUV market: https://electrek.co/2025/02/28/volkswagen-id-4-best-selling-ev-europe-top-3-us-jan/ https://electrek.co/2025/02/28/volkswagen-id-4-best-selling-... It's not to my taste that bonnet lines have got higher, SUV style, but it appears to be what the public wants to buy.
    • ricardobeat 9mo ago
      The ID4 is such a pleasure to drive. Reminds me of a VW Parati from the 90s I used to drive, soft but not boat-y. Apparently it also sells pretty well in China, which is a huge statement to its appeal given the competition there.
• NetMageSCW 9mo ago
  Car enthusiasts never disappear, but they will be a small part of the market just like always.
  • hydrogen7800 9mo ago
    Maybe it's naive of me, but I think the enthusiast will still have a place in the future, just as they can now own cars without 3-point seatbelts, catalytic converters, traction control, ABS, airbags, crumple zones, etc. all of which have been mandated for many decades.
• deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
• guywithahat 9mo ago
  The top selling vehicle in the world is a US EV? I think we're behind the point where all vehicles can be EV's, we still need ICE for certain things, but the US is arguably the only other country in the world where we produce EV's competitive with China
• catigula 9mo ago
  The technologies were developed in Europe and the USA.
• englishspot 9mo ago
  as a wannabe "car enthusiast", I'd happily buy a fun EV if one existed for a reasonable price. the xiaomi su7 for example looks incredible, and I'd jump on that if sold here in the US in a heartbeat. but for the majority of people, yeah, I don't think they really care either way. if we had the infrastructure and EVs were sold at the prices that people are seeing for the Chinese EVs, I think they'd switch away from ICE fairly easily.
• ge96 9mo ago
  I want that throaty Lotus Exige shame only 260s legal in US. No electric for me not because I'm against it but I love that sound, real sound. I know Tesla Plaid can do 0-60 in 1.9 but so can Corvette C8. Not that Exige is that powerful but it's a sexy car. This is awesome to me https://youtu.be/0c9prOTdp_M?si=r0q3vqohdVNw7HpF&t=181 https://youtu.be/0c9prOTdp_M?si=r0q3vqohdVNw7HpF&t=181
• kazinator 9mo ago
  I'm not a car enthusiast. Unfortunately, I'm also not a phone-on-wheels enthusiast either.
• cung 9mo ago
  The US controls the oil monopoly, where as China controls battery minerals. The US can’t compete in electric vehicles solely due to lack of control over the complete supply chain.
• m463 9mo ago
  > Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” actually I think there are two strange things going on. Tesla has completely dominated acceleration vs ice cars. The model S can dor 0-60 in (admittedly fudged) 1.99 seconds. The model 3 performance has 500 or 600 horsepower. This has created lots of EV enthusiasts. BUT - they have also been screwing things up. By taking away displays like the dashboard in model 3, or controls like drive select, turn signals and putting everything on the touchscreen... there's a really terrible UI. Who can be an enthusiast without being part of the car control equation?