6 ms·

In a country with 42 million inhabitants this doesn't seem like a big change even for canada, let alone for the global economy.

justonceokay 9mo ago
It’s a complete sea change. I feel Canada only set tariffs on cars out of some deference to the US auto industry. I don’t want to use slippery slope thinking, but this to me smells like rolling out a Canadian auto market that is not dependent on the US. For the average family, being able to spend significantly less on a car is a big deal.
- mkozlows 9mo ago
  Keep in mind that the US auto industry is also very much a Canadian one. A lot of Big Three stuff happens across the border in Ontario. But all the policy support that would have let North American automakers build up a competitive position with China is gone, so this is more about just acknowledging reality now.
  - justonceokay 9mo ago
    Yeah there was never any competing with china, our industry just relies on our market using different values to purchase a car. It’s tough to convince most price-inelastic people they shouldn’t buy a car that is 1/2 price, even if it has fewer features. Edit: to be clear I meant that the US did not compete, not that they could not compete
    - toomuchtodo 9mo ago
      > Yeah thee was never any competing with china, our industry just relies on our market using different values to purchase a car. This is patently false. The US could have competed with China if it had maintained investments spinning up battery manufacturing and downstream systems to build EVs at scale, while subsidizing EVs (fossil fuels are subsidized to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars per year [1]) and increasing taxes on combustion mobility. The US picked legacy automaker profits and fossil fuel interests instead, simply out of lack of will and short term optimization over long term success. China is building under the same rules of physics as everyone else. You can choose not to, but that is a choice. (I believe in climate change, so I am thrilled China is going to steamroll fossil fuel incumbents out of self interest [2] [3], regardless of negative second order effects; every 24 months of Chinese EV production destroys 1M barrels/day of global oil consumption at current production rates, as of this comment) [1] https://www.imf.org/en/topics/climate-change/energy-subsidies https://www.imf.org/en/topics/climate-change/energy-subsidie... [2] https://ember-energy.org/data/china-cleantech-exports-data-explorer/ https://ember-energy.org/data/china-cleantech-exports-data-e... [3] https://ourworldindata.org/electric-car-sales https://ourworldindata.org/electric-car-sales
      - brianwawok 9mo ago
        Chinese autoworker makes what, 5k USD a year? Vs 50k+ for union autoworker in the US? How can you win that battle?
        toomuchtodo 9mo ago
        China buys and deploys more robotics for manufacturing than any other country in the world. Automate or die as a business [1] [2]. It's not "cheap China labor" vs "expensive union labor"; it's labor vs automation. And, to be clear, that does not mean you need to get rid of union US labor. It just means the existing folks can do more with the same number of folks they have today, and the pipeline for new workers can shrink while maintaining productivity (and we're going to need those folks for other jobs automation cannot do; trades, electrical grid and renewables infra, nursing and care, etc). This does require both unions and corporations to partner in good faith and share in the gains from this operating model, versus the traditional "squeeze labor as hard as you can for shareholder gains and management comp." If we get to the point where a just transition is needed (like coal mining and generation), that is a policy problem; make good policy, be humane to the human, package them out appropriately if we scale automation faster than expected. This is simply smart policy as the world reaches peak working age population and heads towards depopulation over the next century [3] [4]. Labor will only get more expensive over time as demand exceeds supply [5]. The capital is there, simply look at annual legacy auto profits; they choose profits over investing in the business, and that is a choice. [1] Inside China's 'dark factories' where robots run the production lines [video] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftY-MH5mdbw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftY-MH5mdbw - December 4th, 2025 [2] Chinese EV makers accelerate robotics drive for ‘game-changing’ edge over US - https://www.scmp.com/business/china-evs/article/3333310/chinese-ev-makers-accelerate-robotics-drive-game-changing-edge-over-us https://www.scmp.com/business/china-evs/article/3333310/chin... | https://archive.today/sJKKv https://archive.today/sJKKv - November 19th, 2025 [3] The Demographic Future of Humanity: Facts and Consequences - https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jesusfv/Slides_London.pdf https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jesusfv/Slides_London.pdf - May 31st, 2025 [4] Mapped: Every Country by Total Fertility Rate - https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/mapped-countries-by-fertility-rate/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/mapped-countries-by-fert... - December 22nd, 2025 [5] HN Search: labor shortages - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=labor%20shortages&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... (TLDR Increase productivity with automation to compete with others who already have, buy robots, not share buybacks)
    - bluGill 9mo ago
      The expensive cars sell well in the us - customers are not that price inelastic. Those who are prefer a used car with all the high priced features of 5 years ago to a new car with no options
      - justonceokay 9mo ago
        Agreed, that’s exactly what i did. But I wonder how much of that culture is because the new cheap Chinese cars aren’t here. If all you have in town is a target, that’s where people will shop. If you open up a goodwill there might be some handwringing and “I would never” rhetoric. But many people will go to the goodwill even if they don’t admit it.
        deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
        bluGill 9mo ago
        Is the cheap car better? I don't mind an old car, and luxury cars bought today are likely to last decades.
        coredog64 9mo ago
        Having previously owned a Chinese car (Great Wall H5, bought new), I'm on the fence about buying Chinese cars. Initially it was a great car -- lots of features and they used high quality OEM parts (e.g. a Mitsubishi engine). However, I found that it didn't hold up well* and was missing some of the touches that come from engineering not coming from a car culture. As one example, the tensioner for the accessory belt was a single 14mm bolt. Technically it worked, but it was not fun. Meanwhile, even my '85 Ford Escort had a half-inch square opening in the belt bracketry that accepted a half-inch socket driver/breaker bar for setting the tension. I don't think this is uniquely a Chinese problem, as I heard similar complaints from owners of early Nissan/Toyota full-size trucks. Toyota was able to eventually improve, but Nissan had to pack it in on the Titan. *To roughly quantify, I'd say mid-to-late 80s Ford/GM car, not 70s Ford/GM car. It never stranded me, but it did break a few times in inconvenient fashion.
    - windowpains 9mo ago
      I remember how popular the Yugo was, and then the Geo metro. Nobody wants good cars, they want cheap transportation.
  - boringg 9mo ago
    I think that was true up until last year. Clearly the new administration wants nothing to do with Canada except extract.
  - FractalParadigm 9mo ago
    > Keep in mind that the US auto industry is also very much a Canadian one. As someone who's worked in the auto industry (in Canada) I have to 'hard disagree.' The big three have proven time and time again that we (Canadians) are second-class citizens when it comes to how they operate the facilities built here. Even before any of this nonsensical tariff nonsense, billions in government money has been given to the likes of Stellantis and GM over the years in an effort to keep jobs in Canada, with them putting in the bare-minimum effort to satisfy people in the short-term and thanking us by continuing their movement of production out of the country. Instead of trying to talk the president down from his pointlessly harmful tariffs, or doing what Toyota/Honda have done in pivoting to building worldwide models beside the domestic ones, the big three are gleefully taking the opportunity to expedite the closure or downsizing of facilities here. Outside of the chuds who 'need' a pickup truck to satisfy their fragile ego, sales of "American" vehicles are starting to drop, with buyers choosing domestically-produced where possible (like the Toyota Rav4, Lexus NX/RX, or Honda Civic/CR-V).[0] [0]: https://ca.investing.com/news/economy-news/market-share-of-usmade-cars-hits-record-low-in-canada-4406117 https://ca.investing.com/news/economy-news/market-share-of-u...
    - Marsymars 9mo ago
      Hey now, I bought a Mexican-made pickup.
      - jp191919 9mo ago
        Me too.
    - coryrc 9mo ago
      > billions in government money has been given to the likes of Stellantis and GM over the years in an effort to keep jobs in Canada, with them putting in the bare-minimum effort You could replace "Canada" with the "United States" and it's equally true. They aren't treating you any different than us.
      - adastra22 9mo ago
  - Waterluvian 9mo ago
    It was. Then the U.S. turned into whatever the hell you call all that. Now we have U.S. automakers who are derefential to the current regime's leader and are pulling out. The Federal and Ontario government both tried to somehow make them happy, but you can't make that kind of monster happy. So it's time to move on.
  - heresie-dabord 9mo ago
    > the US auto industry is also very much a Canadian one Trump's message is loud and clear. The Canadian Prime Minister has said, "the past relationship with the US is over." https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y41z4351qo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y41z4351qo The US President: "US does not need cars made in Canada; free trade deal is irrelevant" https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/article/we-dont-need-cars-made-in-canada-trump-says-calls-cusma-irrelevant/ US Ambassador: "US does not need Canada": https://www.pressreader.com/canada/sentinel-review-woodstock/20260116/281629606665800
  - rangestransform 9mo ago
    Big auto style auto manufacturing, with American-style union relations and a messy web of parts suppliers was never going to be globally competitive. GM and Ford deserve to go bankrupt with their current backwards practices.
- lifetimerubyist 9mo ago
  > I feel Canada only set tariffs on cars out of some deference to the US auto industry That is exactly what they did. https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/electric-vehicles/canada-to-hit-china-tariffs-evs-steel https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/electric-vehicl... > The tariffs follow a May announcement by U.S. President Joe Biden of 100 per cent tariffs on Chinese-made EVs. > Trudeau said on Sunday night that he had discussed China and other national geopolitical issues with U.S. national security advisor Jake Sullivan. > smells like rolling out a Canadian auto market that is not dependent on the US The last federal election was almost entirely decided by which leader made the best pitch to Canadians on who would be better equipped to handle Donald Trump and to make the economy less dependent on the USA as a whole.
  - adamiscool8 9mo ago
    Nothing to do with “unfair, non-market policies and practices […] and China’s intentional, state-directed policy of overcapacity and lack of rigorous labour and environmental standards”? I suppose that doesn’t even register anymore to the average selectively outraged parochial Canadian. [0] https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/news/2024/08/canada-implementing-measures-to-protect-canadian-workers-and-key-economic-sectors-from-unfair-chinese-trade-practices.html https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/news/2024/08/can...
    - fbelzile 9mo ago
      It can, and likely was, both.
      - adamiscool8 9mo ago
        It’s a good thing Canada waited for China to resolve all these issues before swinging open our market doors to them.
        wasabi991011 9mo ago
        When you have two overlapping issues, it is perfectly reasonable to choose to focus on the one you consider more important given the current context. If the context changes, it is reasonable to change which issue you focus on.
- jszymborski 9mo ago
  > ...smells like rolling out a Canadian auto market that is not dependent on the US. Feels like being dependent on both the Chinese _and_ the Americans to me, which doesn't exactly feel like a win.
- yibg 9mo ago
  It'll be interesting to see how the Chinese EVs compete "fairly" in Canada. North America has had a lack of choice in automobiles at least as long as I can remember. There are so many cars that are available in Europe or Asia that I wish were available here. But at the same time consumer choices are also very different. So will be interesting to see what the uptake of Chinese EVs are like.
- barbazoo 9mo ago
  It was about the mess around Huawei exec if I recall correctly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_case_of_Meng_Wanzhou https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_case_of_Meng_Wanzh...
alemanek 9mo ago
It’s just the beginning is my guess. If BYD or CATL commits to a factory /assembly in Canada I would expect limits to be raised on this as progress is made. Or if this goes well we could see limits raised as China drops Canadian product tariffs further.
- bahmboo 9mo ago
  My gut reaction is there is no way China is setting up vehicle manufacturing or assembly in Canada because the American President would go absolutely nuts. Canada is increasing ties and joint ventures with Canada but manufacturing would be a bridge too far for our little man in the White House.
  - mekdoonggi 9mo ago
    Maybe Canada inks a deal to allow Mexican manufactured Chinese EV's?
    - bahmboo 9mo ago
      Now that would be hilarious!
  - alemanek 9mo ago
    It is getting to the point where lots of countries will stop caring how the US feels about things. Between threatening, and some actual military intervention, with Iran, Venezuela, Greenland, Canada, Denmark, Mexico, and itself the US is spread pretty thin at the moment. I think Canada will slowly open up to China and boil the frog if you will. If they are smart about it then it will probably work out really well for them. They will need a new market for their oil, timber, ..etc since the US is no longer a reliable partner. This will take years but as long as China doesn’t do something dumb like invade Taiwan they can just sit back and win while the US is busy self destructing. I say this as an American, also a veteran, who loves his country but hates what is currently going on.
- echelon 9mo ago
  The current (or next) admin would take Alberta and Saskatchewan. They'll propose that the residents secede from Canada and join the US. There's probably enough political willpower in these provinces and money (paid by the US) to turn this into a real movement. And from there, Yukon and the Northwest Territories are easy next dominoes.
irishcoffee 9mo ago
Shitty napkin math says china is saving about $1-$1.5B, so I agree, I'm not seeing the needle more here. What _does_ make sense is that this agreement will continue to evolve over time. What _doesn't_ make sense is the 10-40% battery capacity loss because of temperature, for EVs in canada. I think newer EVs manage temperature issues like this better than older models, but I am unfamiliar with chinese EVs so I can't speak to them.
- bee_rider 9mo ago
  Where would China be getting savings, here? Unless they are also dropping some tariffs? Canada lowering tariffs saves Canadians money.
  - irishcoffee 9mo ago
    > Canada lowering tariffs saves Canadians money. How many chinese EVs are in canada right now? If the answer is close enough to zero as to be insignificant, how is this saving canadians any money on chinese EVs? If it helps, we can say something like: this adds $1-$2B gross revenue to china selling EVs to canada. Profit, probably less than a $1B. Needle still not moving.
    - nkozyra 9mo ago
      Expanding the market with alternatives that are now cheaper seems like an opportunity to save Canadians money.
    - ceejayoz 9mo ago
      > Needle still not moving. It's a geopolitical needle move, not a purely financial one.
Retric 9mo ago
Cars last ~25 years, 49,000 * 25 = 1.2 million Chinese EV’s on the road in a steady state. Not such as huge shift in total, but EV’s are still a small percentage of total vehicle sales in Canada.
- bgirard 9mo ago
  ~25 years isn't the average when you account for accidents, rust, and useful economic life of a car. We had 200+ car crashes due to weather in a single day this week in Waterloo, Ontario.
  - bluGill 9mo ago
    The average car in the us is 12 years old, so expected life of 25 seems reasonable. Not all make it that long but many will
  - Retric 9mo ago
    The average car in Canada is 10.5 years old, in a steady state you double that to 2 * 10.5 =21 years lifespan on average. However the country isn’t in a steady state in 2005 there where 33.5 million people in Canada in 2025 that hit 41.5 million. So because the number of new cars purchased each year is increasing the average age is significantly below 1/2 the average car’s lifespan.
  - sebastiennight 9mo ago
    This argument is akin to "80 years definitely can't be the average life expectancy. The number must not be taking premature death into account ; I hear about teens dying all the time"
- thesh4d0w 9mo ago
  25 years?! Hardly https://www.brokerlink.ca/blog/how-long-do-cars-last-in-canada https://www.brokerlink.ca/blog/how-long-do-cars-last-in-cana... > In 2020, the Automotive Industries Association of Canada (AIA Canada) reported the average age of Canadian vehicles was 9.7 years, though many industry experts believe that number is closer to 10.5 years today.
ortusdux 9mo ago
I think the precedent is big. It does seem like an attempt to adjust of their sudden drop in EV sales last year - https://www.thestar.com/news/canadian-ev-sales-fell-off-a-cliff-in-2025-what-happened-and-what-happens-now/article_a38672f1-96f1-4020-903f-a086abd84e96.html https://www.thestar.com/news/canadian-ev-sales-fell-off-a-cl...
pbhjpbhj 9mo ago
If you're selling 49000 electric vehicles, and the tariff reduced from $CAN 50k (estimated cost of a new electric vehicle; 100% tariff tax) to 3k (6%), saving your customers $2.3B, that seems significant to me? I'm only trying to give a feel for them numbers, I did check the average selling price for a new BYD
throw0101d 9mo ago
> In a country with 42 million inhabitants this doesn't seem like a big change even for canada, let alone for the global economy. The premier ("governor") of Ontario, where GM, Ford, Toyota, etc, have manufacturing plants feels otherwise: * https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doug-ford-canadian-electric-vehicle-deal-china-9.7048225 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doug-ford-canadian-el...
- rangestransform 9mo ago
  big auto style manufacturing was never going to be competitive, and propping it up is a jobs program. Just pay them to dig holes and fill them in, and let Canadians have a competitive vehicle market
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
numbsafari 9mo ago
This is a “0 to 1” change in international relations. This doesn’t bode well for Trump’s trade war.
epolanski 9mo ago
Wait till Canadians find out how good Chinese cars for their price.
- mekdoonggi 9mo ago
  I suspect the limit will be revised upward ahead of schedule.
outside1234 9mo ago
The thing I am wondering is if there was an unwritten agreement to build Chinese BEV plants in Canada. This would give China access to the US market without tariffs and would give Canada manufacturing jobs.
port11 9mo ago
As an outsider (EU citizen), the message it sends is that they’re willing to negotiate more with China, on a product that would hurt Tesla sales. No, it won’t move the global needle, but the warmer positioning towards China is interesting.

justonceokay 9mo ago

It’s a complete sea change. I feel Canada only set tariffs on cars out of some deference to the US auto industry. I don’t want to use slippery slope thinking, but this to me smells like rolling out a Canadian auto market that is not dependent on the US. For the average family, being able to spend significantly less on a car is a big deal.

mkozlows 9mo ago
Keep in mind that the US auto industry is also very much a Canadian one. A lot of Big Three stuff happens across the border in Ontario. But all the policy support that would have let North American automakers build up a competitive position with China is gone, so this is more about just acknowledging reality now.
- justonceokay 9mo ago
  Yeah there was never any competing with china, our industry just relies on our market using different values to purchase a car. It’s tough to convince most price-inelastic people they shouldn’t buy a car that is 1/2 price, even if it has fewer features. Edit: to be clear I meant that the US did not compete, not that they could not compete
  - toomuchtodo 9mo ago
    > Yeah thee was never any competing with china, our industry just relies on our market using different values to purchase a car. This is patently false. The US could have competed with China if it had maintained investments spinning up battery manufacturing and downstream systems to build EVs at scale, while subsidizing EVs (fossil fuels are subsidized to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars per year [1]) and increasing taxes on combustion mobility. The US picked legacy automaker profits and fossil fuel interests instead, simply out of lack of will and short term optimization over long term success. China is building under the same rules of physics as everyone else. You can choose not to, but that is a choice. (I believe in climate change, so I am thrilled China is going to steamroll fossil fuel incumbents out of self interest [2] [3], regardless of negative second order effects; every 24 months of Chinese EV production destroys 1M barrels/day of global oil consumption at current production rates, as of this comment) [1] https://www.imf.org/en/topics/climate-change/energy-subsidies https://www.imf.org/en/topics/climate-change/energy-subsidie... [2] https://ember-energy.org/data/china-cleantech-exports-data-explorer/ https://ember-energy.org/data/china-cleantech-exports-data-e... [3] https://ourworldindata.org/electric-car-sales https://ourworldindata.org/electric-car-sales
    - brianwawok 9mo ago
      Chinese autoworker makes what, 5k USD a year? Vs 50k+ for union autoworker in the US? How can you win that battle?
      - toomuchtodo 9mo ago
        China buys and deploys more robotics for manufacturing than any other country in the world. Automate or die as a business [1] [2]. It's not "cheap China labor" vs "expensive union labor"; it's labor vs automation. And, to be clear, that does not mean you need to get rid of union US labor. It just means the existing folks can do more with the same number of folks they have today, and the pipeline for new workers can shrink while maintaining productivity (and we're going to need those folks for other jobs automation cannot do; trades, electrical grid and renewables infra, nursing and care, etc). This does require both unions and corporations to partner in good faith and share in the gains from this operating model, versus the traditional "squeeze labor as hard as you can for shareholder gains and management comp." If we get to the point where a just transition is needed (like coal mining and generation), that is a policy problem; make good policy, be humane to the human, package them out appropriately if we scale automation faster than expected. This is simply smart policy as the world reaches peak working age population and heads towards depopulation over the next century [3] [4]. Labor will only get more expensive over time as demand exceeds supply [5]. The capital is there, simply look at annual legacy auto profits; they choose profits over investing in the business, and that is a choice. [1] Inside China's 'dark factories' where robots run the production lines [video] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftY-MH5mdbw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftY-MH5mdbw - December 4th, 2025 [2] Chinese EV makers accelerate robotics drive for ‘game-changing’ edge over US - https://www.scmp.com/business/china-evs/article/3333310/chinese-ev-makers-accelerate-robotics-drive-game-changing-edge-over-us https://www.scmp.com/business/china-evs/article/3333310/chin... | https://archive.today/sJKKv https://archive.today/sJKKv - November 19th, 2025 [3] The Demographic Future of Humanity: Facts and Consequences - https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jesusfv/Slides_London.pdf https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jesusfv/Slides_London.pdf - May 31st, 2025 [4] Mapped: Every Country by Total Fertility Rate - https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/mapped-countries-by-fertility-rate/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/mapped-countries-by-fert... - December 22nd, 2025 [5] HN Search: labor shortages - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=labor%20shortages&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... (TLDR Increase productivity with automation to compete with others who already have, buy robots, not share buybacks)
  - bluGill 9mo ago
    The expensive cars sell well in the us - customers are not that price inelastic. Those who are prefer a used car with all the high priced features of 5 years ago to a new car with no options
    - justonceokay 9mo ago
      Agreed, that’s exactly what i did. But I wonder how much of that culture is because the new cheap Chinese cars aren’t here. If all you have in town is a target, that’s where people will shop. If you open up a goodwill there might be some handwringing and “I would never” rhetoric. But many people will go to the goodwill even if they don’t admit it.
      - deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
      - bluGill 9mo ago
        Is the cheap car better? I don't mind an old car, and luxury cars bought today are likely to last decades.
      - coredog64 9mo ago
        Having previously owned a Chinese car (Great Wall H5, bought new), I'm on the fence about buying Chinese cars. Initially it was a great car -- lots of features and they used high quality OEM parts (e.g. a Mitsubishi engine). However, I found that it didn't hold up well* and was missing some of the touches that come from engineering not coming from a car culture. As one example, the tensioner for the accessory belt was a single 14mm bolt. Technically it worked, but it was not fun. Meanwhile, even my '85 Ford Escort had a half-inch square opening in the belt bracketry that accepted a half-inch socket driver/breaker bar for setting the tension. I don't think this is uniquely a Chinese problem, as I heard similar complaints from owners of early Nissan/Toyota full-size trucks. Toyota was able to eventually improve, but Nissan had to pack it in on the Titan. *To roughly quantify, I'd say mid-to-late 80s Ford/GM car, not 70s Ford/GM car. It never stranded me, but it did break a few times in inconvenient fashion.
  - windowpains 9mo ago
    I remember how popular the Yugo was, and then the Geo metro. Nobody wants good cars, they want cheap transportation.
- boringg 9mo ago
  I think that was true up until last year. Clearly the new administration wants nothing to do with Canada except extract.
- FractalParadigm 9mo ago
  > Keep in mind that the US auto industry is also very much a Canadian one. As someone who's worked in the auto industry (in Canada) I have to 'hard disagree.' The big three have proven time and time again that we (Canadians) are second-class citizens when it comes to how they operate the facilities built here. Even before any of this nonsensical tariff nonsense, billions in government money has been given to the likes of Stellantis and GM over the years in an effort to keep jobs in Canada, with them putting in the bare-minimum effort to satisfy people in the short-term and thanking us by continuing their movement of production out of the country. Instead of trying to talk the president down from his pointlessly harmful tariffs, or doing what Toyota/Honda have done in pivoting to building worldwide models beside the domestic ones, the big three are gleefully taking the opportunity to expedite the closure or downsizing of facilities here. Outside of the chuds who 'need' a pickup truck to satisfy their fragile ego, sales of "American" vehicles are starting to drop, with buyers choosing domestically-produced where possible (like the Toyota Rav4, Lexus NX/RX, or Honda Civic/CR-V).[0] [0]: https://ca.investing.com/news/economy-news/market-share-of-usmade-cars-hits-record-low-in-canada-4406117 https://ca.investing.com/news/economy-news/market-share-of-u...
  - Marsymars 9mo ago
    Hey now, I bought a Mexican-made pickup.
    - jp191919 9mo ago
      Me too.
  - coryrc 9mo ago
    > billions in government money has been given to the likes of Stellantis and GM over the years in an effort to keep jobs in Canada, with them putting in the bare-minimum effort You could replace "Canada" with the "United States" and it's equally true. They aren't treating you any different than us.
    - adastra22 9mo ago
- Waterluvian 9mo ago
  It was. Then the U.S. turned into whatever the hell you call all that. Now we have U.S. automakers who are derefential to the current regime's leader and are pulling out. The Federal and Ontario government both tried to somehow make them happy, but you can't make that kind of monster happy. So it's time to move on.
- heresie-dabord 9mo ago
  > the US auto industry is also very much a Canadian one Trump's message is loud and clear. The Canadian Prime Minister has said, "the past relationship with the US is over." https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y41z4351qo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y41z4351qo The US President: "US does not need cars made in Canada; free trade deal is irrelevant" https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/article/we-dont-need-cars-made-in-canada-trump-says-calls-cusma-irrelevant/ US Ambassador: "US does not need Canada": https://www.pressreader.com/canada/sentinel-review-woodstock/20260116/281629606665800
- rangestransform 9mo ago
  Big auto style auto manufacturing, with American-style union relations and a messy web of parts suppliers was never going to be globally competitive. GM and Ford deserve to go bankrupt with their current backwards practices.
lifetimerubyist 9mo ago
> I feel Canada only set tariffs on cars out of some deference to the US auto industry That is exactly what they did. https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/electric-vehicles/canada-to-hit-china-tariffs-evs-steel https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/electric-vehicl... > The tariffs follow a May announcement by U.S. President Joe Biden of 100 per cent tariffs on Chinese-made EVs. > Trudeau said on Sunday night that he had discussed China and other national geopolitical issues with U.S. national security advisor Jake Sullivan. > smells like rolling out a Canadian auto market that is not dependent on the US The last federal election was almost entirely decided by which leader made the best pitch to Canadians on who would be better equipped to handle Donald Trump and to make the economy less dependent on the USA as a whole.
- adamiscool8 9mo ago
  Nothing to do with “unfair, non-market policies and practices […] and China’s intentional, state-directed policy of overcapacity and lack of rigorous labour and environmental standards”? I suppose that doesn’t even register anymore to the average selectively outraged parochial Canadian. [0] https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/news/2024/08/canada-implementing-measures-to-protect-canadian-workers-and-key-economic-sectors-from-unfair-chinese-trade-practices.html https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/news/2024/08/can...
  - fbelzile 9mo ago
    It can, and likely was, both.
    - adamiscool8 9mo ago
      It’s a good thing Canada waited for China to resolve all these issues before swinging open our market doors to them.
      - wasabi991011 9mo ago
        When you have two overlapping issues, it is perfectly reasonable to choose to focus on the one you consider more important given the current context. If the context changes, it is reasonable to change which issue you focus on.
jszymborski 9mo ago
> ...smells like rolling out a Canadian auto market that is not dependent on the US. Feels like being dependent on both the Chinese _and_ the Americans to me, which doesn't exactly feel like a win.
yibg 9mo ago
It'll be interesting to see how the Chinese EVs compete "fairly" in Canada. North America has had a lack of choice in automobiles at least as long as I can remember. There are so many cars that are available in Europe or Asia that I wish were available here. But at the same time consumer choices are also very different. So will be interesting to see what the uptake of Chinese EVs are like.
barbazoo 9mo ago
It was about the mess around Huawei exec if I recall correctly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_case_of_Meng_Wanzhou https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_case_of_Meng_Wanzh...

alemanek 9mo ago

It’s just the beginning is my guess. If BYD or CATL commits to a factory /assembly in Canada I would expect limits to be raised on this as progress is made. Or if this goes well we could see limits raised as China drops Canadian product tariffs further.

bahmboo 9mo ago
My gut reaction is there is no way China is setting up vehicle manufacturing or assembly in Canada because the American President would go absolutely nuts. Canada is increasing ties and joint ventures with Canada but manufacturing would be a bridge too far for our little man in the White House.
- mekdoonggi 9mo ago
  Maybe Canada inks a deal to allow Mexican manufactured Chinese EV's?
  - bahmboo 9mo ago
    Now that would be hilarious!
- alemanek 9mo ago
  It is getting to the point where lots of countries will stop caring how the US feels about things. Between threatening, and some actual military intervention, with Iran, Venezuela, Greenland, Canada, Denmark, Mexico, and itself the US is spread pretty thin at the moment. I think Canada will slowly open up to China and boil the frog if you will. If they are smart about it then it will probably work out really well for them. They will need a new market for their oil, timber, ..etc since the US is no longer a reliable partner. This will take years but as long as China doesn’t do something dumb like invade Taiwan they can just sit back and win while the US is busy self destructing. I say this as an American, also a veteran, who loves his country but hates what is currently going on.
echelon 9mo ago
The current (or next) admin would take Alberta and Saskatchewan. They'll propose that the residents secede from Canada and join the US. There's probably enough political willpower in these provinces and money (paid by the US) to turn this into a real movement. And from there, Yukon and the Northwest Territories are easy next dominoes.

irishcoffee 9mo ago

Shitty napkin math says china is saving about $1-$1.5B, so I agree, I'm not seeing the needle more here. What _does_ make sense is that this agreement will continue to evolve over time. What _doesn't_ make sense is the 10-40% battery capacity loss because of temperature, for EVs in canada. I think newer EVs manage temperature issues like this better than older models, but I am unfamiliar with chinese EVs so I can't speak to them.

bee_rider 9mo ago
Where would China be getting savings, here? Unless they are also dropping some tariffs? Canada lowering tariffs saves Canadians money.
- irishcoffee 9mo ago
  > Canada lowering tariffs saves Canadians money. How many chinese EVs are in canada right now? If the answer is close enough to zero as to be insignificant, how is this saving canadians any money on chinese EVs? If it helps, we can say something like: this adds $1-$2B gross revenue to china selling EVs to canada. Profit, probably less than a $1B. Needle still not moving.
  - nkozyra 9mo ago
    Expanding the market with alternatives that are now cheaper seems like an opportunity to save Canadians money.
  - ceejayoz 9mo ago
    > Needle still not moving. It's a geopolitical needle move, not a purely financial one.

Retric 9mo ago

Cars last ~25 years, 49,000 * 25 = 1.2 million Chinese EV’s on the road in a steady state. Not such as huge shift in total, but EV’s are still a small percentage of total vehicle sales in Canada.

bgirard 9mo ago
~25 years isn't the average when you account for accidents, rust, and useful economic life of a car. We had 200+ car crashes due to weather in a single day this week in Waterloo, Ontario.
- bluGill 9mo ago
  The average car in the us is 12 years old, so expected life of 25 seems reasonable. Not all make it that long but many will
- Retric 9mo ago
  The average car in Canada is 10.5 years old, in a steady state you double that to 2 * 10.5 =21 years lifespan on average. However the country isn’t in a steady state in 2005 there where 33.5 million people in Canada in 2025 that hit 41.5 million. So because the number of new cars purchased each year is increasing the average age is significantly below 1/2 the average car’s lifespan.
- sebastiennight 9mo ago
  This argument is akin to "80 years definitely can't be the average life expectancy. The number must not be taking premature death into account ; I hear about teens dying all the time"
thesh4d0w 9mo ago
25 years?! Hardly https://www.brokerlink.ca/blog/how-long-do-cars-last-in-canada https://www.brokerlink.ca/blog/how-long-do-cars-last-in-cana... > In 2020, the Automotive Industries Association of Canada (AIA Canada) reported the average age of Canadian vehicles was 9.7 years, though many industry experts believe that number is closer to 10.5 years today.

ortusdux 9mo ago

I think the precedent is big. It does seem like an attempt to adjust of their sudden drop in EV sales last year - https://www.thestar.com/news/canadian-ev-sales-fell-off-a-cliff-in-2025-what-happened-and-what-happens-now/article_a38672f1-96f1-4020-903f-a086abd84e96.html https://www.thestar.com/news/canadian-ev-sales-fell-off-a-cl...

pbhjpbhj 9mo ago

If you're selling 49000 electric vehicles, and the tariff reduced from $CAN 50k (estimated cost of a new electric vehicle; 100% tariff tax) to 3k (6%), saving your customers $2.3B, that seems significant to me? I'm only trying to give a feel for them numbers, I did check the average selling price for a new BYD

throw0101d 9mo ago

> In a country with 42 million inhabitants this doesn't seem like a big change even for canada, let alone for the global economy. The premier ("governor") of Ontario, where GM, Ford, Toyota, etc, have manufacturing plants feels otherwise: * https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doug-ford-canadian-electric-vehicle-deal-china-9.7048225 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doug-ford-canadian-el...

rangestransform 9mo ago
big auto style manufacturing was never going to be competitive, and propping it up is a jobs program. Just pay them to dig holes and fill them in, and let Canadians have a competitive vehicle market

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

numbsafari 9mo ago

This is a “0 to 1” change in international relations. This doesn’t bode well for Trump’s trade war.

epolanski 9mo ago

Wait till Canadians find out how good Chinese cars for their price.

mekdoonggi 9mo ago
I suspect the limit will be revised upward ahead of schedule.

outside1234 9mo ago

The thing I am wondering is if there was an unwritten agreement to build Chinese BEV plants in Canada. This would give China access to the US market without tariffs and would give Canada manufacturing jobs.

port11 9mo ago

As an outsider (EU citizen), the message it sends is that they’re willing to negotiate more with China, on a product that would hurt Tesla sales. No, it won’t move the global needle, but the warmer positioning towards China is interesting.