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If all those things happened in Spain where I live, I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets, together with a lot of other unpleasant-but-needed civilian a

If all those things happened in Spain where I live, I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets, together with a lot of other unpleasant-but-needed civilian action, until things got better, like we've done in the past (sometimes maybe went slightly overboard with it, but better than nothing). Why are Americans so passive? You're literally transitioning into straight up authoritarianism, yet where are the riots? How are you not fighting back with more than whistles and blocking them in cars? Is there more stuff actually happening on the ground, but there simply isn't any videos of it, or are people really this passive in the land of the free? Are people inside the country not getting the same news we're getting on the outside? Are you not witnessing your government carrying out extra-judicial murders and then being protected by that same government? I'm really lost trying to understand how the average person (like you reading this) isn't out on the streets trying to defend what I thought your country was all about.

anaisbetts 10mo ago
A pervasive "Someone needs to do something!!!" attitude is why. Americans will forever wait for the school principal to come and get everyone into trouble
- biophysboy 10mo ago
  There is a lot of direct action happening right now in Minneapolis, with people keeping watch on every block. I agree this level of organizing should be happening nationwide.
NoMoreNicksLeft 10mo ago
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- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  > Why would I want to riot over immigration enforcement enforcing immigration laws? So you are not seeing the same news the outside world are seeing? Is there censorship happening? Because what we're seeing, isn't "enforcing immigration laws", it's brutal murder of civilians, together with actually being worse at getting people out of the country. Obama did a better job at kicking out illegals, yet without these public broad-daylight murders. How does that compute to be "enforcing immigration laws"?
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 10mo ago
    >So you are not seeing the same news the outside world are seeing? Yes. Me personally, at least, in that I don't watch broadcast television at all. Hell, quite alot of it from the same links and tweets you click on. No Fox News or anything like that, but I suspect that if I gave you my personal opinions you'd swear that I was parroting those outlets. (Something I've noticed all my life... most people can't accept that I might independently arrive at the same conclusions.) >it's brutal murder of civilians, I watched it from 5 angles. It wasn't murder, it was self-defense. Open and shut. Cars are deadly weapons, she pointed the car at him as if she was bullet-proof. Found out otherwise. Everything to the contrary is sophistry. "Sure, she waved a gun around, but she didn't point it at his face!" and so forth. He had milliseconds to react, but he's supposed to see the wheels that he's not looking at turned away and he's supposed to care when on a Minnesota road with a bad driver and slush the direction the wheels point might not even matter. >Obama did a better job at kicking out illegals, Perhaps. So? If Trump appoints him deportation czar, I won't object. >yet without these public broad-daylight murders. How does that compute to be "enforcing immigration laws"? Plainly false. Did you bother to look this up? Not only were federal agents accused of this during his tenure, several of them were ICE and CBP in manners similar to what we're seeing now. Maybe the news outlets you favor didn't bother to report those, selectively.
    - happytoexplain 10mo ago
      I am pro-immigration-control, in a pretty strong sense. Not "anti-immigration", since it's a valuable tool when controlled properly, but I believe we have not been properly controlling it, by a long shot. The consequences have been disastrous, so I sympathize with the desperation and anger born from that. But no amount of sympathy can excuse the general behavior of ICE and the stain it leaves on the idea of the USA. In this case - I have watched all the same videos, and there is simply no way to view that murder as clearly self-defense without leaning on a pre-decided hatred of the victim as an "enemy". Just as the left's ideas on immigration are clouded by idealism in the name of anti-racism, the right's ideas on immigration are clouded by racism. What's best for a society lies somewhere in between, and at this point may require some tough enforcement, yes, but ICE is not enacting that - they are just enacting the right's hatred, terrorizing America in an un-focused, illegal, immoral, violent, unprofessional manner. As Americans understandably push back against that (as Americans are famous for), you will get escalating messes like this.
trackflak 10mo ago
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breakpointalpha 10mo ago
American life is so much more distributed than European life. Population density and the gigantic geographic distance make these kinds of events feel "remote" even if they are happening in our same state. It's a 17 hour drive from Atlanta, Georgia to Minneapolis for example. On top of that, a lot of Americans are just barely surviving financially, so they are in full bunker mode just making rent. It's a scary time to rebel.
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  > American life is so much more distributed than European life. It isn't though, Google Maps estimate going West>East coast in the US to take 44 hours (pure driving without stops), and puts going from the South of Spain to the North of Sweden to take 50 hours, more or less the same. Then Europe is a bunch of countries, most of them speaking different languages, with way more difference in culture than the states of the US. I'm not sure it matters though, it really isn't relevant, but probably the wrong thing to bring up regardless, when the reality looks the opposite than you seem to think. FWIW, when the (last) civil war in Spain happened, you had volunteer civilians coming from Sweden (among other countries) to defend their ideals, even if it wasn't their fight, completely different culture and language. But if you care about something bigger than yourself, then you act. "My country is large" isn't an excuse to not stand up against tyranny, not sure in what world it would be. The whole "just barely surviving financially" sucks though, especially considering the poor labor movements and almost non-existing union support, and poor grassroot organization. It always felt weird and artificially suppressed, but without those thing, it certainly seems easier to take over an entire country. Hope others learned their lessons with this.
  - deleted 10mo ago
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  - SpicyLemonZest 10mo ago
    > Then Europe is a bunch of countries, most of them speaking different languages, with way more difference in culture than the states of the US. I'm not sure it matters though, it really isn't relevant, but probably the wrong thing to bring up regardless, when the reality looks the opposite than you seem to think. There's certainly more cultural similarity across the US, but that doesn't mean there isn't a sense of emotional and geographic distance. Remember that the typical riot participant is not a political theorist who has some deep theory of how discharging their duty will enact change, just an average guy who's mad as hell about what's happening and not going to take it anymore.
throwaway853578 10mo ago
Because I have a kid to take care of. A job I need to keep, and a way of life I'd like to maintain. Because it's not happening where I live (yet). I care about people but I don't give a fuck about my country. It's just a place to live. If it gets too bad I'll move my family elsewhere. Also, this whole checks and balances thing we learned about in school will surely kick in sometime soon...
- agubelu 10mo ago
  So you don't do anything because you have a job you need to keep and a kid to take care of, but you're perfectly okay with moving to a completely different country on short notice?
  - toomuchtodo 10mo ago
    The US, for better or worse, isn't a cohesive country of people interested in a collective, but a smash and grab of economic gains sourced from those who are forced to live in it and cannot flee to developed countries. You come to it, or stay in it, to make more income you would in developed countries at the detriment of everyone else. Whether you believe the economic human factory farm that is the US is worth saving or preserving will be a function of your lived experience and mental model. "What are you optimizing for?"
    - throwaway853578 10mo ago
      Calling the USA a "economic human factory farm" is the best thing I've heard all year. Yeah we have some perks here. But they're not as rare as our propaganda would have us believe and we sure do pay for them in various ways.
  - throwaway853578 10mo ago
    Yes because one of those can get my face smashed in by a baton. Moving is a far safer option for my family. Call it selfish if you want (hell, I'd even agree with you) but my priority is my family and my life. This idea that I have to care about "my country" is patriotic BS pounded into us to make it more likely to join the army.
agubelu 10mo ago
I'd say a couple of reasons: - The American political system has been very successful in telling its people that the only acceptable way to show discontent and enact change is by voting on elections. - Lots of people are okay with it because it can only happen to the "bad guys", and why would it ever happen to them since they're the "good guys"... right?
- pas 10mo ago
  ... yet still tens of millions of eligible voters don't even bother the country is very low-density, there's no one obvious point to protest (there was Occupy Wall Street... and then the Seattle TAZ and .... that's it, oh and the Capitol January 6th), strikes and unions are legally neutered, it's just not the American way anymore the country has a lot of experience "managing" internal unpleasantry, see the time leading up to the civil war, and then the reconstruction, and then there was a lull as the innovation in racism led to legalized economic racism (the usual walking while black "crimes", vagrancy laws, etc), and then the civil rights era, with the riots, and since then (and as always) police brutality is used as a substitute to training and funding
  - ndsipa_pomu 10mo ago
    I think a general strike might be effective for low-density places, though that requires enough people taking part to make it truly effective. That way you don't need an obvious place to protest apart from your workplace and it'd be a non-violent protest that would definitely get the attention of the wealthy.
- hvb2 10mo ago
  > The American political system has been very successful in telling its people that the only acceptable way to show discontent and enact change is by voting on elections. Has it? Because I recall a bunch of people gathering in the wrong building on Jan 6
  - pseudalopex 10mo ago
    Very does not mean perfectly.
QuadmasterXLII 10mo ago
Americans aren't passive: we actively did this. The rioters are in the masks and uniforms. We went so far out of our way to arrive at this godforsaken idiot collapse.
jalapenoh 10mo ago
Americans have wanted the border fixed for around a century.
- pbhjpbhj 10mo ago
  Fixed like Putin is "fixing" his borders through immoral violence, murder, oppression, ...? (Trump's regime are mimicking it well.) Or do you mean something else? Are you saying USA, in the majority, is still imperialist? Is still racist? Is still white supremacist?
- mrguyorama 10mo ago
  How is thugging around Minneapolis fixing the border in any way?
- goatlover 10mo ago
  Authoritarians always use some out group as a scape goat for problems to be fixed by a strong man who isn't restrained by the law.
biophysboy 10mo ago
To be fair, Minneapolis is raising hell and has been for the last week. There have been many protests in other cities as well. I would also say that Trump and his cronies would absolutely love if this boils over into a violent riot. That would give them permission to double down.
- SilverElfin 10mo ago
  I keep hearing this idea that boiling over lets them double down, but at the same time, it is not acceptable to let them keep doing what they do. Once the government starts using physical violence against the people and openly violating constitutional law, there is no choice, but to push back. But that pushback can look different. Personally, I think that needs to be a massive general strike across every major city.
  - biophysboy 10mo ago
    Totally fine with general strikes, particularly for the business that are accommodating and providing logistical services for ICE. Very much opposed to shooting wars. We don't have the firepower or the political power (yet).
    - giardini 10mo ago
      biophysboy says "Very much opposed to shooting wars. We don't have the firepower or the political power (yet)." Who is the "We" in your statement? Are you talking about insurrection?
  - embedding-shape 10mo ago
    > Personally, I think that needs to be a massive general strike across every major city. Yes, this tends to be really effective, especially when you're fighting the upper-class, which is more or less what's happening here as far as I can tell. Get all the cleaners, cooks, hotel workers and other "servants" to strike, pool up to fund a salary-light for them while they strike, and you'll see changes quickly as the upper-class can no longer enjoy their status.
yawboakye 10mo ago
spain isn’t a great example here. it has some of the most racist fans football has ever seen and yet there’s no action. only italy probably compares. if there was a government agency going after black and brown people (ie non-white) i wouldn’t bet on the spanish population to come to their rescue. lamine yamal, a young footballer of moroccan descent hasn’t been spared the vitriol of the spanish hooligans even though he was top 3 best player at the recent euro (where he helped spain to victory). point being, given that ice is going after non-whites and is getting by, a spanish ice will get by too, with probably more ease.
- api 10mo ago
  I've read multiple comparisons between US groups like Patriot Front and the Proud Boys and hooliganism in terms of the culture and demographics. Similar backgrounds, similar attitudes, similar behaviors (get smashed, go start fights). It's just more overtly political here rather than being organized around a sports fandom.
- tremon 10mo ago
  Sad as it is, I think Spain only barely makes it into the top 10 on the UEFA racism ranking. Serbia, Hungary and Israel are probably the top contenders, with Albania and Poland completing the top 5.
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  > lamine yamal Hah, funny you bring up the name of a neighbor :) I'm not sure that's even in the same class of issues as what's happening in the US and frankly, a bit surprising to hear. Have you seen/been with ultras in the Nordics? Even been to derbies played in Copa Libertadores? Both of those I'd immediately rank as way more violent than what we see here in Spain.
andoando 10mo ago
Imo, there is too much of an individualistic culture here. Where I am people live for twenty years and barely even know their neighbors.
aaronbrethorst 10mo ago
We don't have the memory of the end of an authoritarian regime only fifty years in our past.
gradus_ad 10mo ago
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- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  > you are receiving propaganda just like everyone else. It's filtered and manipulated to make the US appear worse than it is. Of course, I realize that all news I read, from CNN, Guardian to Reuters, Fox and White House press release all have biases. Reading both sides gives you the in-the-middle perspective you need, and I recommend everyone to do the same, even if some sources like Fox are kind of hard to get through sometimes, but it's important to read both sides of every story. > "Extra judicial murders" are federal ICE officers justifiably defending themselves. ICE is in Minneapolis and many other cities to deal with a huge population of illegals that need to be deported as expressed by the popular will of our recent democratic election. ICE agents defending themselves isn't exclusive with "extra judicial murders", you can defend yourself but do so in the wrong way. You don't have permission to execute anyone you think might harm you, then the situation would be much worse. Instead you have "proportional force" or similar, and I guess that's up to each observer to decide what they think that is, because it seems like the courts aren't even gonna have their input considered about it. Hence the "Extra judicial" part.
- afavour 10mo ago
  The deep irony in your comment is that every view you’ve expressed is itself informed by the propaganda you have been viewing. ICE are detaining American citizens. It’s been documented countless, countless times. The killings they have committed are clearly debatable in their justification. Staying they are justified does not make it so.
grunder_advice 10mo ago
Yep, in all EU countries, this would lead to country wide protests with the usual result being the fall of the government and new elections. Seems like the US is missing this element of democracy.
pear01 10mo ago
You should read James Baldwin. Or read up on the debates post revolutionary war in the United States about the French revolution. The truth is the land of the free has always been quite conservative. Which frankly, is true of most societies. In many ways that's what a society is. Worse still, ICE stomping people out in the street is what freedom means to a vast swath of Americans. The rest are scared and leaderless and let down by an opposition that betrays their trust at every turn. And yes Europeans keep telling Americans how to protest, but really they are little better. "Far right" candidates are already projecting big wins in the UK today. To say nothing of the victories far right parties have already secured in Europe. Spain is more familiar with blatant facisim and totalitarianism than Americans are. So idk... imo Europeans really pat themselves on the back too much... what would you do? Provoking a riot is of questionable value anyway when he won a pretty convincing national victory at the polls just a year ago... no one has any answers as far as I can see, only empty expressions of anger... protest harder means what? I think a better start would be a coherent, defensible list of demands than anyone from a governor to a street activist can convey intelligently. Then you can try to enforce it. But ultimately you can't muster more force than the state. If that is your only suggestion then it's a fruitless one.
afavour 10mo ago
A broad answer: because America is more violent. The ICE officers are armed and absolutely will use their weapons if given half a chance to. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think any rioters in countries like Spain go to a protest with a bet real chance on their minds that they might die.
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  > Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think any rioters in countries like Spain go to a protest with a bet real chance on their minds that they might die. That's the thing, they do, and have in the past too. Some might even recall riots ~70 years ago that kind of spiraled out of control and led to a civil war. Looking at what's happening in Iran as we speak might be a good idea as well, where they've had enough, know that there is a good chance of their regime literally executing them on the spot, yet they're brave enough to continue fighting, because they realize what's at stake, and have run out of other options. > The ICE officers are armed and absolutely will use their weapons if given half a chance to So this was the whole point with the 2nd amendment right, that when/if the government repress you in that way, you have weapons to fight back? Or am I misunderstanding what that part is/was about?
  - hvb2 10mo ago
    Americans are much more comfy than Iranians are though. As much as Americans might dislike what's going on, they're not fighting got their own survival. Democracy, authoritarianism are all abstract and vague concepts
  - m_fayer 10mo ago
    (White) Americans of the center and left have long since lost the conviction that you may just need to bleed for your children’s freedom. It’ll come back, hopefully not too late.
    - krapp 10mo ago
      The thing is, to most white Americans, their childrens' freedom isn't at stake. The majority of white voters have always supported Trump, and probably support ICE, whereas most of the rest simply don't don't consider it their problem. And unfortunately that probably won't change until ICE kills more of them and makes it their problem.
montjoy 10mo ago
> Why are Americans so passive? Because it’s cold? Here in Minnesota it’s 17F / -7C. Factoring in the wind chill it feels like 7F / -14C. There are other reasons too of course (geography, lack of urban density, distrust of news, apathy, etc etc) but I think the weather is a definite factor right now.
deleted 10mo ago
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alex43578 10mo ago
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- edaemon 10mo ago
  That's not actually true. YouGov's poll shows only 34% of Americans believe ICE's operations are making America safer: https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/53878-more-americans-view-ice-shooting-minnesota-unjustified-than-justified-january-9-12-2026-economist-yougov-poll https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/53878-more-americ...
  - alex43578 10mo ago
    Polling from them says about half of Americans have an unfavorable view of ICE, a far better rating than Congress, for example at 80% disapprove. So you’ve got a swath of people who are fine with what ICE is doing, or don’t care to even make their dissatisfaction known via a survey, much less the ballot box or via a riot.
    - edaemon 10mo ago
      You said "Don’t forget half the population (within polling MOE) supports this, believing ICE/ removal operations are making America safer...". That's not true. Barely a third of Americans believe that. Nearly half of Americans want ICE outright abolished.
      - alex43578 10mo ago
        Ok, so revised: half the population wants ICE abolished and nearly half the population has a favorable view of ICE. The OP question was why aren’t Americans rising up and resisting ICE, and the answer I gave was because about half the population doesn’t even dislike them enough to answer a survey negatively.
        edaemon 10mo ago
        I'm not sure that revision is correct either. What poll shows half the population with a favorable view of ICE? I can't find anything that high. The highest I see from reputable pollsters is 40%, and most show it is decreasing.
webstrand 10mo ago
This is anecdotal, America is geographically quite large. For a lot of people, where these events are happening are more than a days drive away (10 hours or more), it's not happening "here". A lot of people here _enjoy_ the authoritarianism, judging by the votes, the voter turnout, and the private discussions I've had with my neighbors. They believe this is good for the country and that there'll be more opportunities for their kids. A lot of other people are holding out for the midterm elections, to see if the will of the majority shifts, because otherwise its risks open civil war. And maybe just a touch of American exceptionalism—this can't actually be happening here, it'll all blow over—and distrust in the story that the media is feeding them is accurate. And some are just fatalistic, this isn't really a surprising turn of events. America has been creeping toward this for more than a few decades, since Regan at the very least.
- rootusrootus 10mo ago
  I think you hit the nail on the head. I count myself mostly in the "holding out for elections" group but a little bit part of the fatalistic group as well. The really sad part of the whole experience is how many people I know that support everything that is going on, and they are not in any way claiming ignorance.
lux-lux-lux 10mo ago
We had nationwide riots for months back in 2020 over a police officer murdering a suspect, and that resulted in approximately zero actual political change. During the recent shutdown over the budget, we had one of the largest protests in the country’s history and massive shifts towards the opposition in elections followed by them immediately folding in exchange for essentially nothing. The political class is very well insulated from the popular will in this country, and I fear we may be nearing the boiling point.
- rootusrootus 10mo ago
  The politicians on the right are not well insulated -- they are very responsive to what their constituents' popular will is, to a fault. The left still hasn't figured out what the hell they're going to do next. Probably just continue the "we aren't Trump!" chanting and hope that's enough to win elections. Meanwhile their own constituents are just as frustrated with status quo as the right was.
  - disgruntledphd2 10mo ago
    > The left still hasn't figured out what the hell they're going to do next. They're gonna keep taking money from their donors and attempt to focus on anything that doesn't hurt their donors. Much like the Republicans were before Trump. You guys really need to do something about Citizens United.
  - tstrimple 10mo ago
    > they are very responsive to what their constituents' popular will I don't think this is the case so much as their constituents are very responsive to the messaging from their politicians and media agencies. You can watch almost in real-time as Trump supporters 180 on things that they "really care about" like the Epstein files. Like the "peace" president. Like on inflation being a major issue. You can watch Trump do something outrageous, and the conservatives online act confused for a bit until they get their messaging and then they are all repeating the exact same excuses online.
deleted 10mo ago
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blactuary 10mo ago
We're not passive, they would shoot us in the head
shlip 10mo ago
First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me -- Martin Niemöller
- alex43578 10mo ago
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xyzelement 10mo ago
I think it's something different than "Americans are passive" - rather, many of them/us perceive the context of what you're seeing very differently. I can share some of this perspective though I don't insist it's the only way to feel. 1. Americans on the ground are clearly feeling the effects of illegal immigration. As an example: a an African American janitor in our kids' school voted republican in 2024 for the first time in his life, because the park in his Brooklyn neighborhood has become a shanty town and he can't work out there. In that election we've seen nearly every demographic move more republican than before, and I think this is the key issue for them. 2. In that context, when ICE does something, even when we don't like it, people can understand it in the context of a larger problem they/we want solved. When you perceive "passivity" - it's because you come in from a perspective of not wanting the underlying problem solved which is fine, but it's different for people who like "what" is happening even if not "how" it's happening. 3. There are plenty of people protesting and violently rioting if that's what they feel like.
- afavour 10mo ago
  I don’t think data supports this. Polling has shown a lot of people who voted Republican in 2024 (Latinos especially) have snapped back again already, at least partially because of what ICE is doing. ICE are terrorizing a city and its residents no matter what their immigration status is. Even someone who strongly wishes to curb illegal immigration should have a problem with that.
  - xyzelement 10mo ago
    I would bet that's true just on a statistical level - but my point is that plenty of people still feel that way, or at least have felt that way recently enough about the underlying problem that won't cause them to riot. There's an interesting other angle that I heard about "terrorizing a city" type thing -- there are many million illegal immigrants in the US who entered in just the last few years, when the prior admin did not attempt to limit. The size of the problem basically leaves no "nice" solutions that are perfectly palatable to everyone. Maybe like "nobody wants to hear about an amputation" but unfortunately some situations are bad enough that you have to.
cogman10 10mo ago
> Why are Americans so passive? Decades of copaganda paired with police brutality. A fairly large portion of americans view anyone with a badge as "the good guy" by default. But, I think people are also fearful about what happens after the riots start. Nobody is excited about Trump using a riot as an excuse to declare martial law and deploy the military everywhere. There's still some hope that cities and states will step up and do their job. These ICE agents can and should be prosecuted. > Are people inside the country not getting the same news we're getting on the outside? They aren't. And unfortunately a LOT of US media is sanewashing. We have dedicated channels like fox news which are basically framing everything as "violent protesters attacking the police for trying to arrest bad guys". But even centrist and slightly left mainstream media is bending over backwards to give excuses and "both sides" this. Doing things like using a lot of passive language or just not reporting on the raids all together. You basically need to be online or tuned in to alternative media to learn about this stuff. There's also the very simple and real fact that fascists already have the power. People are scared. There's about 30% of the citizenship who could literally drive a car through a protest or open up fire who'd be completely protected by the state for those actions. Most of the people that'd do that are already employed by ICE.
- NickC25 10mo ago
  >" But even centrist and slightly left mainstream media is bending over backwards to give excuses and "both sides" this." Our "leftist" or "centrist" news sources are owned by right wing billionaires. There is no real actual leftist or even centrist news source that has any sort of clout here in the US.
potsandpans 10mo ago
Americans aren't passive. 40% of the people are openly fascist and support this. Just look at this site as a sample set.
goatlover 10mo ago
Minneapolis mayor told protestors to remain peaceful. The Democrats always want to follow the rules even when the other side has abandoned them. To be fair to Mayor Frye though, Trump wants to provoke rioting to invoke the Insurrection Act, which he threatened to do today if the Democratic officials don't "fall in line". So there is that.
RickJWagner 10mo ago
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- willmarch 10mo ago
  There are plenty of examples of peaceful protestors being attacked by ICE and Americans being locked up simply for not producing papers on demand.
  - RickJWagner 10mo ago
    Can you provide an example of an unambiguously peaceful protester being attacked? Id like to research one you consider a clear case.
    - willmarch 10mo ago
      Here are several off the top of my head with sources and videos: Peaceful protester/protest crowd attacked: (video) https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Raids/comments/1qcyvqt/ice_shoots_pastor_in_head/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Raids/comments/1qcyvqt/ice_shoo... (video) https://www.reddit.com/r/lostgeneration/comments/1qcbpac/huge_volley_of_flash_bangs_and_tear_gas_near_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/lostgeneration/comments/1qcbpac/hug... (video) https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/1qceoy4/shards_of_glass_and_metal_embedded_in_protesters/ https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/1qceoy4/shards_o... U.S. Citizen arrested/detained for having an accent: https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1qdol2a/having_an_accent_is_now_a_criminal_offense/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1qdol2a/having_an_... In a Richfield Target, video shows federal agents detaining Target employees, including one being tackled/handcuffed while saying “I’m literally a U.S. citizen,” and they were later released: https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/richfield-target-ice-immigration-raid-corporate-minneapolis/ https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/richfield-target-ice-... (video) https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1qauntn/ice_kidnap_17yearold_us_citizen_working_at_target/ https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1qauntn/ice_kidn...
      - RickJWagner 10mo ago
deeg 10mo ago
Americans have had 100 years of stable government and in the past political solutions have eventually been enacted. The Civil Rights bill was passed. Nixon pulled out of Vietnam. I think a lot of people are still expecting sanity to return. I hope they're right.
- potato3732842 10mo ago
  You've got three groups here. Federal cops, undocumented immigrants and the kind of people who turn out to protest the former acting against the latter. Very few people in this country finds any one of these groups particularly sympathetic and there's wide demographic swaths of the country that actively hate two if not all three of them. So yeah, everyone sees stuff that's very, very, wrong here, but nobody's really in any rush to intervene except the people who already are protesting. A political solution will likely come of this, as everyone with a brain knows that the preconditions for all this shit are something that need to be prevented in the future. Edit. To be clear, I'm talking about the people who are actually physically involved here.
  - deeg 10mo ago
    There are more than three groups. What about the group of people who are unhappy that masked goons are violently arresting citizens? What about people unhappy that ICE stopped a naturalization ceremony literally minutes before they were to become citizens?
  - tastyface 10mo ago
    Undocumented immigrants? They’re just violently yanking random nonwhite people off the streets and figuring out who’s who later: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/13/ice-immigration-target-minnesota https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/13/ice-immigrat... As well as going door-to-door and forcing entry without a warrant, besieging Spanish language immersion schools, and other dragnet horrors. Meanwhile, official DHS social media accounts are posting literal Stormfront ethnic cleansing memes. I’m not sure how anyone but the most ardent ethnonationalists can be OK with this. Even if you think all undocumented immigrants should be deported, "hunt them down like dogs and to hell with everyone else" is beastial.
_DeadFred_ 10mo ago
Not attacking you OP, but oh look, the top comment again concern trolling the topic to something else less inconvenient. It's wild how common that is on HN. Basically we Americans have given up on our system. Both on the left and the right. It's why the right elected Trump, and it's why the left silently elected Trump by not voting.
spit2wind 10mo ago
Americans are not passive. Look at the videos of any of these incidents. People are supporting those under attack, collecting evidence, and protesting. The message is clear. Peaceful protest is the key. Riots, violence, and fighting are not peaceful and only play into the administration's aims. When Americans resist and protest peacefully, as they have been in the largest numbers ever in the country's history, it exposes the brutality and baseness of those commiting the heinous acts. Through such peaceful protest as we see, America will overcome this. The big question is, what next? How to hold people accountable, fairly, while rebuilding the system and rebuilding trust?
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  Those things work in democratic and ordered societies though, and you need to figure out other approaches when democracy and freedom stops being something the government still cares about. The current leader of the country attempted an insurrection, yet was still allowed to become the leader after that? I think you're beyond being able to change this through just peaceful protests, although it's definitively a part of the answer. Who are you gonna report this brutality to, when the judicial arm of the government is just following the directions of the administration? How do you hold people accountable, when the system to hold anyone accountable is being undermined?
reaperducer 10mo ago
I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets A riot is exactly what they want. This is all about getting locals upset enough to break things, so the administration can justify sending in the military. Rioting just gives them what they want. This is a tried-and-true tactic employed by thugs throughout history.
- kahrl 10mo ago
  Works for a while until we string up said thugs.
asa400 10mo ago
First, all of what you say is true. I'm going to try to add a little context as someone who is here on the ground, in the city in question. There is the imminent threat of mass death, and no one here is under any illusions about it. Every ICE agent is armed, and most have ready access to automatic weapons. These are not well-trained members of an elite organization with a storied, patriotic culture. ICE is a personalist paramilitary organization, and the president has indicated that these ICE agents are immune from consequences, even if they kill people. These are people who volunteered knowing they were going to go into American cities and do violence to people they perceive as their political enemies. Most of these agents are inexperienced, jittery, poorly trained new recruits away from home. They aren't locals. Their nexus of power and governance isn't local. These are not our community members, they aren't from here, they don't know us or care about us, so they do not empathize with us. In addition to this, the American citizenry is shockingly well armed. Because everyone involved is so well armed, everybody is slightly touchy about this descending into rioting, because there is a very short path from light rioting to what would essentially amount to civil war. The costs of such any such violence will overwhelmingly be borne by the innocent people who live here, and we know it. So, people are trying to strike a balance of making sure these people know they aren't welcome here while trying to prevent the situation from spiraling into one in which some terrified agent mag-dumps a crowd of protestors and causes a chain reaction that results in truly catastrophic mass death. Wish us luck, we're trying.
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  Thank you a lot for taking the time to share what you see there, I really appreciate it. All we can hope for is that it gets better, and that there are genuine people out there who care about others in their community, who all help each other when needed. It's really sad to hear about the realization of how quickly it could spiral but considering the situation, it's real and make sense. Thank you and good luck!
- fooqux 10mo ago
  You put that perfectly, well done. I may bookmark this and show it to every person that says something like "why not just start throwing bricks". Good luck. Is there anything those that aren't living in ones of these towns can do to help in impactful ways?
rybosworld 10mo ago
> Why are Americans so passive? I think it's important to realize how divided the U.S. is right now. Half the country is in favor of what ICE is doing in some form or another. Some people on the right are denouncing the _way_ ICE is accomplishing this. But they are far from outraged. The other half of the country is as dumbfounded/shocked as the rest of the world. This isn't like the French revolution where a majority of the country was suffering and rose up against the few. This is very nearly 50% of the country wants to make the other 50% squirm. It cannot be understated the role that Fox News has played to get us to this level of division. The channel "The Necessary Conversation" has some good examples of just how radicalized some American's have gotten. It's 2 kids interviewing their MAGA parents. I think it's not uncommon for American's to know people like the parents in this video. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hSysuwHw4KU https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hSysuwHw4KU
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  > It cannot be understated the role that Fox News has played to get us to this level of division. Yeah, it's been a sharp shift, as someone who've watched/read Fox News (and other news of course) for decades out of the US. Fox News always been a bit strange with it's vitriol, but at one point, I can't remember if it was around the middle of Obama's second term, or later, but it took a really sharp turn further into emotional reporting and partisanship. Again, Fox always been a bit special, and other news channels also did similar turns further into their sides, but I can remember seeing the change as it was happening. There is another documentary I quite liked in similar vein but on an individual level, called "Dear Kelly", that follows a far-right conspiracy theorist and tries to give some understanding into Kelly's struggles and radicalization. Released independently and can be found here: https://www.dearkellyfilm.com/ https://www.dearkellyfilm.com/
  - cryzinger 10mo ago
    The fact that ragebait is the most effective way to drive engagement (and therefore to make money off of a captive audience) feels like the first falling domino that sunk us into our current predicament. Certainly the Murdoch empire made its fortune that way.
jajuuka 10mo ago
Isn't the same true of in the EU though? Immigrants and refugees from Syria were treated quite harshly and has led to a significant rise in far right parties across Europe. These parties are actively harassing immigrants and non-white groups. But there doesn't seem to be riots in the streets over it. It's almost flipped how the US and Europe have dealt with threats. The US has a long history of organized hate groups having the run of things. I don't Europe has experienced anything like the KKK for as long. However Europe is not far removed from fascist and authoritarian regimes. So things are more fresh in the minds of citizens and they are more likely to fight them. However when attacked through another method it subverts that and allows tacit approval from the public while their neighborhoods are transformed for the worse.
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  > These parties are actively harassing immigrants and non-white groups. But there doesn't seem to be riots in the streets over it. It is true, we have vigilante groups going around sometimes acting violent against people they think are immigrants, it is a real problem. It isn't all across Europe, and it isn't super common, but it happens, and that's enough. I think the difference is in who is coordinating these efforts, because none of those vigilante groups are the country's own border patrol doing that in "official business" capacity, they're small groups of individuals usually associated with some far-right political groups, rather than tax funded government groups. If the latter were to happen, you can be pretty sure people wouldn't put up with it, because most of us realize what's coming after that, because we were all forced to study history growing up. > So things are more fresh in the minds of citizens and they are more likely to fight them Yeah, this seems to be a big factor, most of us here (Europe) still have parents (and grand-parents) who remember and witnessed a lot of awful shit, and growing up would immediately reprimand you if you just pretended to like that, or carry thoughts in those veins.
- NonHyloMorph 10mo ago
  We are very weary of that in Europe. I consider it to be the case thag the "Rechtsruck" (sudden movement to the right) is a global phenomenon. Alls the right extremist are orienting themselves after the model of what Trumpism is doing which at least thats true for my personally, is why I am ver y concerned of what is happening kn the US. I grew up to a jazz sax playing father to whom the culture the GI brought here was progressive and related to freedom. It feels loke that idea of the US is dead now. As to why this phenomenon is happening - i would speculate that it has to do with the polarisation that is happening in the face a ever faster progressing disintegration of the social fabric into technology accompanied by the prospect of a scarcity of resources caused by an impeding breakdown of the biosphere and the climate system with which it coevolved plus on a more local scale an extreme increase of inequality of wealth distribution.
botanrice 10mo ago
man honestly all this stuff pisses me off but I'm just trying to survive over here in my own life. Got friends from all over but no one is really ready to put their life on the line. Like, most disagree with Trump's agenda, many find it offensive, but bottom line is staying healthy, finding work, paying bills, taking care of ppl immediately around you is more important. Truth is, lots of Americans are really divorced from the reality undocumented immigrants are facing right now. Lots of immigrants from 10-15+ years ago aren't worried if they are law abiding (anecdotal). The online rhetoric rly doesn't match daily life in my most places aside from the active hotbeds.
QuantumGood 10mo ago
You need to specify what you mean by "more than". Last night ICE agents were attacked with shovels, injuring one. A man was shot. BEFORE this began we had 7 million people protesting simultaneously nationwide—they are "out on the street" as you put it. With protests around the country every day. Minneapolis has organized hundreds into rapid response teams against ICE. The killings get more news than the protests, particularly as much of the media has been bought up by republican owners. You seem to be missing the news, and saying it does not exist. In Philadelphia, residents are being filmed patrolling with automatic weapons in advance of ICE supposedly heading there next. Read what @asa400, another local like myself, is saying in another comment to parent. Many locals on social media are cheering on the shootings. America is incredibly polarized right now. It's not like all the public is against the government. Nearly half of those most likely to vote in past elections support this.
cael450 10mo ago
A shocking number of Americans not only think all of this is great, but they wish it was them out there shooting their neighbors.
m0llusk 10mo ago
There are a lot of differences. Americans are not being passive. For one thing, reasonable or not there is still a lot of faith in the election process and many are expecting all this craziness will put Republicans on a back seat for decades. For another, these ICE groups are well armed and operate in numbers. Many Americans are also armed and have deep misgivings about political violence and where this is headed. Where you see "passive" many of us see "knife edge". Also, many live staying busy and near exhaustion to start with and have trouble coming to grips with just how bad this is as no one has ever shown this much contempt for laws without consequences. There is an expectation that the constitution will hold any test. And those following closely understand that just about everything Trump has done including tariffs are illegal and the courts are closing in. Worth mentioning that America does not have a protest culture like Europe. Being largely rural makes gathering for political expression impractical, and in this particular case Trump and his militias are deliberately trying to stir up chaos in order to rationalize cranking up the pressure. Protests make noise and get you targeted but what is needed now is real change.
- tstrimple 10mo ago
  > For one thing, reasonable or not there is still a lot of faith in the election process and many are expecting all this craziness will put Republicans on a back seat for decades. If only the country wasn't systematically designed to favor conservatives. Low population states have way too much influence on this country. It's one of the reasons we're so fucking backwards compared to the rest of the world. We're held hostage in part by places like Wyoming and Nebraska. Our House representation has been capped so we're getting fucked on representation and the electoral college as well. On top of that, the conservative's willingness to lie and cheat certainly puts them at significant advantage as well. Stunts like convincing someone with the same name as your opponent to run as well in hopes of confusing the voters and splitting up votes to running as a Democrat only to switch as soon as elected. Liberals just aren't equipped or willing to fight against conservative fuckery. If liberals fought half as hard to support their lip services towards helping people as conservatives fought for fucking people over, we might actually make progress in this country.
jasondigitized 10mo ago
Y'all got guns over there?
casey2 10mo ago
I'm guessing that the lady laying on her horn protesting ICE doesn't have many (or any) close friends/family
v0id24 10mo ago
Why then don't people unite against the dominance of not very friendly and culturally alien migrants, Muslims?
- willmarch 10mo ago
  Because your premise is untrue.
  - v0id24 10mo ago
    Do you mean there's no problem? The appalling situation in France, Sweden, Great Britain and Belgium with crime, rapes, harassment of local residents and the associated financial losses on benefits is striking. Perhaps the situation is better in Spain - I haven't visited Spain in a long time.
guest__user 10mo ago
American here; studied and lived in France and participated in some big protests there. The US just doesn't have the protest/strike culture that Europe has, it's not part of our tradition; the majority of people don't even know how or understand the implications...Also most cities in the US are built for cars , not pedestrians and people on the street.
lesostep 10mo ago
I remember 5 years ago americans said same things about russian civil unrest. No grand penalty for violent rioting, you can get off with just prison time! There is a vast difference between believing that your nation would riot hard and having to risk your own life knowing that your loved ones that would be devastated if something happens.
zahlman 10mo ago
> Why are Americans so passive? You're literally transitioning into straight up authoritarianism, yet where are the riots? In the same place. You just aren't seeing footage of them on HN. > Is there more stuff actually happening on the ground There is, and there is lots of video of it. You only need search elsewhere. I have seen such footage. It's all over the place. I've cited examples of what I've seen in other comments. You can infer keyword search terms from the descriptions and should be able to find them readily with any search engine. > Are you not witnessing your government carrying out extra-judicial murders and then being protected by that same government? They are not "extra-judicial murders". The only people who have died so far have been those whose actions presented a serious threat to the life or safety of federal officers. Anyone who disagrees with my claim is welcome to provide contradictory evidence.
__MatrixMan__ 10mo ago
You're just describing a recipe for agents opening fire into a crowd. The opposition is doing it right: demonstrate to ICE that they're nonviolent, well coordinated, and much more numerous. If violence is warranted, the time and place for it is not when they're all together, armed to the teeth, and looking for a fight. It's when they're off duty, alone, and not expecting a confrontation.

anaisbetts 10mo ago

A pervasive "Someone needs to do something!!!" attitude is why. Americans will forever wait for the school principal to come and get everyone into trouble

biophysboy 10mo ago
There is a lot of direct action happening right now in Minneapolis, with people keeping watch on every block. I agree this level of organizing should be happening nationwide.

NoMoreNicksLeft 10mo ago

[flagged]

embedding-shape 10mo ago
> Why would I want to riot over immigration enforcement enforcing immigration laws? So you are not seeing the same news the outside world are seeing? Is there censorship happening? Because what we're seeing, isn't "enforcing immigration laws", it's brutal murder of civilians, together with actually being worse at getting people out of the country. Obama did a better job at kicking out illegals, yet without these public broad-daylight murders. How does that compute to be "enforcing immigration laws"?
- NoMoreNicksLeft 10mo ago
  >So you are not seeing the same news the outside world are seeing? Yes. Me personally, at least, in that I don't watch broadcast television at all. Hell, quite alot of it from the same links and tweets you click on. No Fox News or anything like that, but I suspect that if I gave you my personal opinions you'd swear that I was parroting those outlets. (Something I've noticed all my life... most people can't accept that I might independently arrive at the same conclusions.) >it's brutal murder of civilians, I watched it from 5 angles. It wasn't murder, it was self-defense. Open and shut. Cars are deadly weapons, she pointed the car at him as if she was bullet-proof. Found out otherwise. Everything to the contrary is sophistry. "Sure, she waved a gun around, but she didn't point it at his face!" and so forth. He had milliseconds to react, but he's supposed to see the wheels that he's not looking at turned away and he's supposed to care when on a Minnesota road with a bad driver and slush the direction the wheels point might not even matter. >Obama did a better job at kicking out illegals, Perhaps. So? If Trump appoints him deportation czar, I won't object. >yet without these public broad-daylight murders. How does that compute to be "enforcing immigration laws"? Plainly false. Did you bother to look this up? Not only were federal agents accused of this during his tenure, several of them were ICE and CBP in manners similar to what we're seeing now. Maybe the news outlets you favor didn't bother to report those, selectively.
  - happytoexplain 10mo ago
    I am pro-immigration-control, in a pretty strong sense. Not "anti-immigration", since it's a valuable tool when controlled properly, but I believe we have not been properly controlling it, by a long shot. The consequences have been disastrous, so I sympathize with the desperation and anger born from that. But no amount of sympathy can excuse the general behavior of ICE and the stain it leaves on the idea of the USA. In this case - I have watched all the same videos, and there is simply no way to view that murder as clearly self-defense without leaning on a pre-decided hatred of the victim as an "enemy". Just as the left's ideas on immigration are clouded by idealism in the name of anti-racism, the right's ideas on immigration are clouded by racism. What's best for a society lies somewhere in between, and at this point may require some tough enforcement, yes, but ICE is not enacting that - they are just enacting the right's hatred, terrorizing America in an un-focused, illegal, immoral, violent, unprofessional manner. As Americans understandably push back against that (as Americans are famous for), you will get escalating messes like this.

trackflak 10mo ago

[dead]

breakpointalpha 10mo ago

American life is so much more distributed than European life. Population density and the gigantic geographic distance make these kinds of events feel "remote" even if they are happening in our same state. It's a 17 hour drive from Atlanta, Georgia to Minneapolis for example. On top of that, a lot of Americans are just barely surviving financially, so they are in full bunker mode just making rent. It's a scary time to rebel.

embedding-shape 10mo ago
> American life is so much more distributed than European life. It isn't though, Google Maps estimate going West>East coast in the US to take 44 hours (pure driving without stops), and puts going from the South of Spain to the North of Sweden to take 50 hours, more or less the same. Then Europe is a bunch of countries, most of them speaking different languages, with way more difference in culture than the states of the US. I'm not sure it matters though, it really isn't relevant, but probably the wrong thing to bring up regardless, when the reality looks the opposite than you seem to think. FWIW, when the (last) civil war in Spain happened, you had volunteer civilians coming from Sweden (among other countries) to defend their ideals, even if it wasn't their fight, completely different culture and language. But if you care about something bigger than yourself, then you act. "My country is large" isn't an excuse to not stand up against tyranny, not sure in what world it would be. The whole "just barely surviving financially" sucks though, especially considering the poor labor movements and almost non-existing union support, and poor grassroot organization. It always felt weird and artificially suppressed, but without those thing, it certainly seems easier to take over an entire country. Hope others learned their lessons with this.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- SpicyLemonZest 10mo ago
  > Then Europe is a bunch of countries, most of them speaking different languages, with way more difference in culture than the states of the US. I'm not sure it matters though, it really isn't relevant, but probably the wrong thing to bring up regardless, when the reality looks the opposite than you seem to think. There's certainly more cultural similarity across the US, but that doesn't mean there isn't a sense of emotional and geographic distance. Remember that the typical riot participant is not a political theorist who has some deep theory of how discharging their duty will enact change, just an average guy who's mad as hell about what's happening and not going to take it anymore.

throwaway853578 10mo ago

Because I have a kid to take care of. A job I need to keep, and a way of life I'd like to maintain. Because it's not happening where I live (yet). I care about people but I don't give a fuck about my country. It's just a place to live. If it gets too bad I'll move my family elsewhere. Also, this whole checks and balances thing we learned about in school will surely kick in sometime soon...

agubelu 10mo ago
So you don't do anything because you have a job you need to keep and a kid to take care of, but you're perfectly okay with moving to a completely different country on short notice?
- toomuchtodo 10mo ago
  The US, for better or worse, isn't a cohesive country of people interested in a collective, but a smash and grab of economic gains sourced from those who are forced to live in it and cannot flee to developed countries. You come to it, or stay in it, to make more income you would in developed countries at the detriment of everyone else. Whether you believe the economic human factory farm that is the US is worth saving or preserving will be a function of your lived experience and mental model. "What are you optimizing for?"
  - throwaway853578 10mo ago
    Calling the USA a "economic human factory farm" is the best thing I've heard all year. Yeah we have some perks here. But they're not as rare as our propaganda would have us believe and we sure do pay for them in various ways.
- throwaway853578 10mo ago
  Yes because one of those can get my face smashed in by a baton. Moving is a far safer option for my family. Call it selfish if you want (hell, I'd even agree with you) but my priority is my family and my life. This idea that I have to care about "my country" is patriotic BS pounded into us to make it more likely to join the army.

agubelu 10mo ago

I'd say a couple of reasons: - The American political system has been very successful in telling its people that the only acceptable way to show discontent and enact change is by voting on elections. - Lots of people are okay with it because it can only happen to the "bad guys", and why would it ever happen to them since they're the "good guys"... right?

pas 10mo ago
... yet still tens of millions of eligible voters don't even bother the country is very low-density, there's no one obvious point to protest (there was Occupy Wall Street... and then the Seattle TAZ and .... that's it, oh and the Capitol January 6th), strikes and unions are legally neutered, it's just not the American way anymore the country has a lot of experience "managing" internal unpleasantry, see the time leading up to the civil war, and then the reconstruction, and then there was a lull as the innovation in racism led to legalized economic racism (the usual walking while black "crimes", vagrancy laws, etc), and then the civil rights era, with the riots, and since then (and as always) police brutality is used as a substitute to training and funding
- ndsipa_pomu 10mo ago
  I think a general strike might be effective for low-density places, though that requires enough people taking part to make it truly effective. That way you don't need an obvious place to protest apart from your workplace and it'd be a non-violent protest that would definitely get the attention of the wealthy.
hvb2 10mo ago
> The American political system has been very successful in telling its people that the only acceptable way to show discontent and enact change is by voting on elections. Has it? Because I recall a bunch of people gathering in the wrong building on Jan 6
- pseudalopex 10mo ago
  Very does not mean perfectly.

QuadmasterXLII 10mo ago

Americans aren't passive: we actively did this. The rioters are in the masks and uniforms. We went so far out of our way to arrive at this godforsaken idiot collapse.

jalapenoh 10mo ago

Americans have wanted the border fixed for around a century.

pbhjpbhj 10mo ago
Fixed like Putin is "fixing" his borders through immoral violence, murder, oppression, ...? (Trump's regime are mimicking it well.) Or do you mean something else? Are you saying USA, in the majority, is still imperialist? Is still racist? Is still white supremacist?
mrguyorama 10mo ago
How is thugging around Minneapolis fixing the border in any way?
goatlover 10mo ago
Authoritarians always use some out group as a scape goat for problems to be fixed by a strong man who isn't restrained by the law.

biophysboy 10mo ago

To be fair, Minneapolis is raising hell and has been for the last week. There have been many protests in other cities as well. I would also say that Trump and his cronies would absolutely love if this boils over into a violent riot. That would give them permission to double down.

SilverElfin 10mo ago
I keep hearing this idea that boiling over lets them double down, but at the same time, it is not acceptable to let them keep doing what they do. Once the government starts using physical violence against the people and openly violating constitutional law, there is no choice, but to push back. But that pushback can look different. Personally, I think that needs to be a massive general strike across every major city.
- biophysboy 10mo ago
  Totally fine with general strikes, particularly for the business that are accommodating and providing logistical services for ICE. Very much opposed to shooting wars. We don't have the firepower or the political power (yet).
  - giardini 10mo ago
    biophysboy says "Very much opposed to shooting wars. We don't have the firepower or the political power (yet)." Who is the "We" in your statement? Are you talking about insurrection?
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  > Personally, I think that needs to be a massive general strike across every major city. Yes, this tends to be really effective, especially when you're fighting the upper-class, which is more or less what's happening here as far as I can tell. Get all the cleaners, cooks, hotel workers and other "servants" to strike, pool up to fund a salary-light for them while they strike, and you'll see changes quickly as the upper-class can no longer enjoy their status.

yawboakye 10mo ago

spain isn’t a great example here. it has some of the most racist fans football has ever seen and yet there’s no action. only italy probably compares. if there was a government agency going after black and brown people (ie non-white) i wouldn’t bet on the spanish population to come to their rescue. lamine yamal, a young footballer of moroccan descent hasn’t been spared the vitriol of the spanish hooligans even though he was top 3 best player at the recent euro (where he helped spain to victory). point being, given that ice is going after non-whites and is getting by, a spanish ice will get by too, with probably more ease.

api 10mo ago
I've read multiple comparisons between US groups like Patriot Front and the Proud Boys and hooliganism in terms of the culture and demographics. Similar backgrounds, similar attitudes, similar behaviors (get smashed, go start fights). It's just more overtly political here rather than being organized around a sports fandom.
tremon 10mo ago
Sad as it is, I think Spain only barely makes it into the top 10 on the UEFA racism ranking. Serbia, Hungary and Israel are probably the top contenders, with Albania and Poland completing the top 5.
embedding-shape 10mo ago
> lamine yamal Hah, funny you bring up the name of a neighbor :) I'm not sure that's even in the same class of issues as what's happening in the US and frankly, a bit surprising to hear. Have you seen/been with ultras in the Nordics? Even been to derbies played in Copa Libertadores? Both of those I'd immediately rank as way more violent than what we see here in Spain.

andoando 10mo ago

Imo, there is too much of an individualistic culture here. Where I am people live for twenty years and barely even know their neighbors.

aaronbrethorst 10mo ago

We don't have the memory of the end of an authoritarian regime only fifty years in our past.

gradus_ad 10mo ago

[flagged]

embedding-shape 10mo ago
> you are receiving propaganda just like everyone else. It's filtered and manipulated to make the US appear worse than it is. Of course, I realize that all news I read, from CNN, Guardian to Reuters, Fox and White House press release all have biases. Reading both sides gives you the in-the-middle perspective you need, and I recommend everyone to do the same, even if some sources like Fox are kind of hard to get through sometimes, but it's important to read both sides of every story. > "Extra judicial murders" are federal ICE officers justifiably defending themselves. ICE is in Minneapolis and many other cities to deal with a huge population of illegals that need to be deported as expressed by the popular will of our recent democratic election. ICE agents defending themselves isn't exclusive with "extra judicial murders", you can defend yourself but do so in the wrong way. You don't have permission to execute anyone you think might harm you, then the situation would be much worse. Instead you have "proportional force" or similar, and I guess that's up to each observer to decide what they think that is, because it seems like the courts aren't even gonna have their input considered about it. Hence the "Extra judicial" part.
afavour 10mo ago
The deep irony in your comment is that every view you’ve expressed is itself informed by the propaganda you have been viewing. ICE are detaining American citizens. It’s been documented countless, countless times. The killings they have committed are clearly debatable in their justification. Staying they are justified does not make it so.

grunder_advice 10mo ago

Yep, in all EU countries, this would lead to country wide protests with the usual result being the fall of the government and new elections. Seems like the US is missing this element of democracy.

pear01 10mo ago

You should read James Baldwin. Or read up on the debates post revolutionary war in the United States about the French revolution. The truth is the land of the free has always been quite conservative. Which frankly, is true of most societies. In many ways that's what a society is. Worse still, ICE stomping people out in the street is what freedom means to a vast swath of Americans. The rest are scared and leaderless and let down by an opposition that betrays their trust at every turn. And yes Europeans keep telling Americans how to protest, but really they are little better. "Far right" candidates are already projecting big wins in the UK today. To say nothing of the victories far right parties have already secured in Europe. Spain is more familiar with blatant facisim and totalitarianism than Americans are. So idk... imo Europeans really pat themselves on the back too much... what would you do? Provoking a riot is of questionable value anyway when he won a pretty convincing national victory at the polls just a year ago... no one has any answers as far as I can see, only empty expressions of anger... protest harder means what? I think a better start would be a coherent, defensible list of demands than anyone from a governor to a street activist can convey intelligently. Then you can try to enforce it. But ultimately you can't muster more force than the state. If that is your only suggestion then it's a fruitless one.

afavour 10mo ago

A broad answer: because America is more violent. The ICE officers are armed and absolutely will use their weapons if given half a chance to. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think any rioters in countries like Spain go to a protest with a bet real chance on their minds that they might die.

embedding-shape 10mo ago
> Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think any rioters in countries like Spain go to a protest with a bet real chance on their minds that they might die. That's the thing, they do, and have in the past too. Some might even recall riots ~70 years ago that kind of spiraled out of control and led to a civil war. Looking at what's happening in Iran as we speak might be a good idea as well, where they've had enough, know that there is a good chance of their regime literally executing them on the spot, yet they're brave enough to continue fighting, because they realize what's at stake, and have run out of other options. > The ICE officers are armed and absolutely will use their weapons if given half a chance to So this was the whole point with the 2nd amendment right, that when/if the government repress you in that way, you have weapons to fight back? Or am I misunderstanding what that part is/was about?
- hvb2 10mo ago
  Americans are much more comfy than Iranians are though. As much as Americans might dislike what's going on, they're not fighting got their own survival. Democracy, authoritarianism are all abstract and vague concepts
- m_fayer 10mo ago
  (White) Americans of the center and left have long since lost the conviction that you may just need to bleed for your children’s freedom. It’ll come back, hopefully not too late.
  - krapp 10mo ago
    The thing is, to most white Americans, their childrens' freedom isn't at stake. The majority of white voters have always supported Trump, and probably support ICE, whereas most of the rest simply don't don't consider it their problem. And unfortunately that probably won't change until ICE kills more of them and makes it their problem.

montjoy 10mo ago

> Why are Americans so passive? Because it’s cold? Here in Minnesota it’s 17F / -7C. Factoring in the wind chill it feels like 7F / -14C. There are other reasons too of course (geography, lack of urban density, distrust of news, apathy, etc etc) but I think the weather is a definite factor right now.

deleted 10mo ago

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alex43578 10mo ago

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edaemon 10mo ago
That's not actually true. YouGov's poll shows only 34% of Americans believe ICE's operations are making America safer: https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/53878-more-americans-view-ice-shooting-minnesota-unjustified-than-justified-january-9-12-2026-economist-yougov-poll https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/53878-more-americ...
- alex43578 10mo ago
  Polling from them says about half of Americans have an unfavorable view of ICE, a far better rating than Congress, for example at 80% disapprove. So you’ve got a swath of people who are fine with what ICE is doing, or don’t care to even make their dissatisfaction known via a survey, much less the ballot box or via a riot.
  - edaemon 10mo ago
    You said "Don’t forget half the population (within polling MOE) supports this, believing ICE/ removal operations are making America safer...". That's not true. Barely a third of Americans believe that. Nearly half of Americans want ICE outright abolished.
    - alex43578 10mo ago
      Ok, so revised: half the population wants ICE abolished and nearly half the population has a favorable view of ICE. The OP question was why aren’t Americans rising up and resisting ICE, and the answer I gave was because about half the population doesn’t even dislike them enough to answer a survey negatively.
      - edaemon 10mo ago
        I'm not sure that revision is correct either. What poll shows half the population with a favorable view of ICE? I can't find anything that high. The highest I see from reputable pollsters is 40%, and most show it is decreasing.

webstrand 10mo ago

This is anecdotal, America is geographically quite large. For a lot of people, where these events are happening are more than a days drive away (10 hours or more), it's not happening "here". A lot of people here _enjoy_ the authoritarianism, judging by the votes, the voter turnout, and the private discussions I've had with my neighbors. They believe this is good for the country and that there'll be more opportunities for their kids. A lot of other people are holding out for the midterm elections, to see if the will of the majority shifts, because otherwise its risks open civil war. And maybe just a touch of American exceptionalism—this can't actually be happening here, it'll all blow over—and distrust in the story that the media is feeding them is accurate. And some are just fatalistic, this isn't really a surprising turn of events. America has been creeping toward this for more than a few decades, since Regan at the very least.

rootusrootus 10mo ago
I think you hit the nail on the head. I count myself mostly in the "holding out for elections" group but a little bit part of the fatalistic group as well. The really sad part of the whole experience is how many people I know that support everything that is going on, and they are not in any way claiming ignorance.

lux-lux-lux 10mo ago

We had nationwide riots for months back in 2020 over a police officer murdering a suspect, and that resulted in approximately zero actual political change. During the recent shutdown over the budget, we had one of the largest protests in the country’s history and massive shifts towards the opposition in elections followed by them immediately folding in exchange for essentially nothing. The political class is very well insulated from the popular will in this country, and I fear we may be nearing the boiling point.

rootusrootus 10mo ago
The politicians on the right are not well insulated -- they are very responsive to what their constituents' popular will is, to a fault. The left still hasn't figured out what the hell they're going to do next. Probably just continue the "we aren't Trump!" chanting and hope that's enough to win elections. Meanwhile their own constituents are just as frustrated with status quo as the right was.
- disgruntledphd2 10mo ago
  > The left still hasn't figured out what the hell they're going to do next. They're gonna keep taking money from their donors and attempt to focus on anything that doesn't hurt their donors. Much like the Republicans were before Trump. You guys really need to do something about Citizens United.
- tstrimple 10mo ago
  > they are very responsive to what their constituents' popular will I don't think this is the case so much as their constituents are very responsive to the messaging from their politicians and media agencies. You can watch almost in real-time as Trump supporters 180 on things that they "really care about" like the Epstein files. Like the "peace" president. Like on inflation being a major issue. You can watch Trump do something outrageous, and the conservatives online act confused for a bit until they get their messaging and then they are all repeating the exact same excuses online.

deleted 10mo ago

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blactuary 10mo ago

We're not passive, they would shoot us in the head

shlip 10mo ago

First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me -- Martin Niemöller

alex43578 10mo ago
[flagged]

xyzelement 10mo ago

I think it's something different than "Americans are passive" - rather, many of them/us perceive the context of what you're seeing very differently. I can share some of this perspective though I don't insist it's the only way to feel. 1. Americans on the ground are clearly feeling the effects of illegal immigration. As an example: a an African American janitor in our kids' school voted republican in 2024 for the first time in his life, because the park in his Brooklyn neighborhood has become a shanty town and he can't work out there. In that election we've seen nearly every demographic move more republican than before, and I think this is the key issue for them. 2. In that context, when ICE does something, even when we don't like it, people can understand it in the context of a larger problem they/we want solved. When you perceive "passivity" - it's because you come in from a perspective of not wanting the underlying problem solved which is fine, but it's different for people who like "what" is happening even if not "how" it's happening. 3. There are plenty of people protesting and violently rioting if that's what they feel like.

afavour 10mo ago
I don’t think data supports this. Polling has shown a lot of people who voted Republican in 2024 (Latinos especially) have snapped back again already, at least partially because of what ICE is doing. ICE are terrorizing a city and its residents no matter what their immigration status is. Even someone who strongly wishes to curb illegal immigration should have a problem with that.
- xyzelement 10mo ago
  I would bet that's true just on a statistical level - but my point is that plenty of people still feel that way, or at least have felt that way recently enough about the underlying problem that won't cause them to riot. There's an interesting other angle that I heard about "terrorizing a city" type thing -- there are many million illegal immigrants in the US who entered in just the last few years, when the prior admin did not attempt to limit. The size of the problem basically leaves no "nice" solutions that are perfectly palatable to everyone. Maybe like "nobody wants to hear about an amputation" but unfortunately some situations are bad enough that you have to.

cogman10 10mo ago

> Why are Americans so passive? Decades of copaganda paired with police brutality. A fairly large portion of americans view anyone with a badge as "the good guy" by default. But, I think people are also fearful about what happens after the riots start. Nobody is excited about Trump using a riot as an excuse to declare martial law and deploy the military everywhere. There's still some hope that cities and states will step up and do their job. These ICE agents can and should be prosecuted. > Are people inside the country not getting the same news we're getting on the outside? They aren't. And unfortunately a LOT of US media is sanewashing. We have dedicated channels like fox news which are basically framing everything as "violent protesters attacking the police for trying to arrest bad guys". But even centrist and slightly left mainstream media is bending over backwards to give excuses and "both sides" this. Doing things like using a lot of passive language or just not reporting on the raids all together. You basically need to be online or tuned in to alternative media to learn about this stuff. There's also the very simple and real fact that fascists already have the power. People are scared. There's about 30% of the citizenship who could literally drive a car through a protest or open up fire who'd be completely protected by the state for those actions. Most of the people that'd do that are already employed by ICE.

NickC25 10mo ago
>" But even centrist and slightly left mainstream media is bending over backwards to give excuses and "both sides" this." Our "leftist" or "centrist" news sources are owned by right wing billionaires. There is no real actual leftist or even centrist news source that has any sort of clout here in the US.

potsandpans 10mo ago

Americans aren't passive. 40% of the people are openly fascist and support this. Just look at this site as a sample set.

goatlover 10mo ago

Minneapolis mayor told protestors to remain peaceful. The Democrats always want to follow the rules even when the other side has abandoned them. To be fair to Mayor Frye though, Trump wants to provoke rioting to invoke the Insurrection Act, which he threatened to do today if the Democratic officials don't "fall in line". So there is that.

RickJWagner 10mo ago

[flagged]

willmarch 10mo ago
There are plenty of examples of peaceful protestors being attacked by ICE and Americans being locked up simply for not producing papers on demand.
- RickJWagner 10mo ago
  Can you provide an example of an unambiguously peaceful protester being attacked? Id like to research one you consider a clear case.
  - willmarch 10mo ago
    Here are several off the top of my head with sources and videos: Peaceful protester/protest crowd attacked: (video) https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Raids/comments/1qcyvqt/ice_shoots_pastor_in_head/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Raids/comments/1qcyvqt/ice_shoo... (video) https://www.reddit.com/r/lostgeneration/comments/1qcbpac/huge_volley_of_flash_bangs_and_tear_gas_near_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/lostgeneration/comments/1qcbpac/hug... (video) https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/1qceoy4/shards_of_glass_and_metal_embedded_in_protesters/ https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/1qceoy4/shards_o... U.S. Citizen arrested/detained for having an accent: https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1qdol2a/having_an_accent_is_now_a_criminal_offense/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1qdol2a/having_an_... In a Richfield Target, video shows federal agents detaining Target employees, including one being tackled/handcuffed while saying “I’m literally a U.S. citizen,” and they were later released: https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/richfield-target-ice-immigration-raid-corporate-minneapolis/ https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/richfield-target-ice-... (video) https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1qauntn/ice_kidnap_17yearold_us_citizen_working_at_target/ https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1qauntn/ice_kidn...
    - RickJWagner 10mo ago

deeg 10mo ago

Americans have had 100 years of stable government and in the past political solutions have eventually been enacted. The Civil Rights bill was passed. Nixon pulled out of Vietnam. I think a lot of people are still expecting sanity to return. I hope they're right.

potato3732842 10mo ago
You've got three groups here. Federal cops, undocumented immigrants and the kind of people who turn out to protest the former acting against the latter. Very few people in this country finds any one of these groups particularly sympathetic and there's wide demographic swaths of the country that actively hate two if not all three of them. So yeah, everyone sees stuff that's very, very, wrong here, but nobody's really in any rush to intervene except the people who already are protesting. A political solution will likely come of this, as everyone with a brain knows that the preconditions for all this shit are something that need to be prevented in the future. Edit. To be clear, I'm talking about the people who are actually physically involved here.
- deeg 10mo ago
  There are more than three groups. What about the group of people who are unhappy that masked goons are violently arresting citizens? What about people unhappy that ICE stopped a naturalization ceremony literally minutes before they were to become citizens?
- tastyface 10mo ago
  Undocumented immigrants? They’re just violently yanking random nonwhite people off the streets and figuring out who’s who later: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/13/ice-immigration-target-minnesota https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/13/ice-immigrat... As well as going door-to-door and forcing entry without a warrant, besieging Spanish language immersion schools, and other dragnet horrors. Meanwhile, official DHS social media accounts are posting literal Stormfront ethnic cleansing memes. I’m not sure how anyone but the most ardent ethnonationalists can be OK with this. Even if you think all undocumented immigrants should be deported, "hunt them down like dogs and to hell with everyone else" is beastial.

_DeadFred_ 10mo ago

Not attacking you OP, but oh look, the top comment again concern trolling the topic to something else less inconvenient. It's wild how common that is on HN. Basically we Americans have given up on our system. Both on the left and the right. It's why the right elected Trump, and it's why the left silently elected Trump by not voting.

spit2wind 10mo ago

Americans are not passive. Look at the videos of any of these incidents. People are supporting those under attack, collecting evidence, and protesting. The message is clear. Peaceful protest is the key. Riots, violence, and fighting are not peaceful and only play into the administration's aims. When Americans resist and protest peacefully, as they have been in the largest numbers ever in the country's history, it exposes the brutality and baseness of those commiting the heinous acts. Through such peaceful protest as we see, America will overcome this. The big question is, what next? How to hold people accountable, fairly, while rebuilding the system and rebuilding trust?

embedding-shape 10mo ago
Those things work in democratic and ordered societies though, and you need to figure out other approaches when democracy and freedom stops being something the government still cares about. The current leader of the country attempted an insurrection, yet was still allowed to become the leader after that? I think you're beyond being able to change this through just peaceful protests, although it's definitively a part of the answer. Who are you gonna report this brutality to, when the judicial arm of the government is just following the directions of the administration? How do you hold people accountable, when the system to hold anyone accountable is being undermined?

reaperducer 10mo ago

I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets A riot is exactly what they want. This is all about getting locals upset enough to break things, so the administration can justify sending in the military. Rioting just gives them what they want. This is a tried-and-true tactic employed by thugs throughout history.

kahrl 10mo ago
Works for a while until we string up said thugs.

asa400 10mo ago

First, all of what you say is true. I'm going to try to add a little context as someone who is here on the ground, in the city in question. There is the imminent threat of mass death, and no one here is under any illusions about it. Every ICE agent is armed, and most have ready access to automatic weapons. These are not well-trained members of an elite organization with a storied, patriotic culture. ICE is a personalist paramilitary organization, and the president has indicated that these ICE agents are immune from consequences, even if they kill people. These are people who volunteered knowing they were going to go into American cities and do violence to people they perceive as their political enemies. Most of these agents are inexperienced, jittery, poorly trained new recruits away from home. They aren't locals. Their nexus of power and governance isn't local. These are not our community members, they aren't from here, they don't know us or care about us, so they do not empathize with us. In addition to this, the American citizenry is shockingly well armed. Because everyone involved is so well armed, everybody is slightly touchy about this descending into rioting, because there is a very short path from light rioting to what would essentially amount to civil war. The costs of such any such violence will overwhelmingly be borne by the innocent people who live here, and we know it. So, people are trying to strike a balance of making sure these people know they aren't welcome here while trying to prevent the situation from spiraling into one in which some terrified agent mag-dumps a crowd of protestors and causes a chain reaction that results in truly catastrophic mass death. Wish us luck, we're trying.

embedding-shape 10mo ago
Thank you a lot for taking the time to share what you see there, I really appreciate it. All we can hope for is that it gets better, and that there are genuine people out there who care about others in their community, who all help each other when needed. It's really sad to hear about the realization of how quickly it could spiral but considering the situation, it's real and make sense. Thank you and good luck!
fooqux 10mo ago
You put that perfectly, well done. I may bookmark this and show it to every person that says something like "why not just start throwing bricks". Good luck. Is there anything those that aren't living in ones of these towns can do to help in impactful ways?

rybosworld 10mo ago

> Why are Americans so passive? I think it's important to realize how divided the U.S. is right now. Half the country is in favor of what ICE is doing in some form or another. Some people on the right are denouncing the _way_ ICE is accomplishing this. But they are far from outraged. The other half of the country is as dumbfounded/shocked as the rest of the world. This isn't like the French revolution where a majority of the country was suffering and rose up against the few. This is very nearly 50% of the country wants to make the other 50% squirm. It cannot be understated the role that Fox News has played to get us to this level of division. The channel "The Necessary Conversation" has some good examples of just how radicalized some American's have gotten. It's 2 kids interviewing their MAGA parents. I think it's not uncommon for American's to know people like the parents in this video. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hSysuwHw4KU https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hSysuwHw4KU

embedding-shape 10mo ago
> It cannot be understated the role that Fox News has played to get us to this level of division. Yeah, it's been a sharp shift, as someone who've watched/read Fox News (and other news of course) for decades out of the US. Fox News always been a bit strange with it's vitriol, but at one point, I can't remember if it was around the middle of Obama's second term, or later, but it took a really sharp turn further into emotional reporting and partisanship. Again, Fox always been a bit special, and other news channels also did similar turns further into their sides, but I can remember seeing the change as it was happening. There is another documentary I quite liked in similar vein but on an individual level, called "Dear Kelly", that follows a far-right conspiracy theorist and tries to give some understanding into Kelly's struggles and radicalization. Released independently and can be found here: https://www.dearkellyfilm.com/ https://www.dearkellyfilm.com/
- cryzinger 10mo ago
  The fact that ragebait is the most effective way to drive engagement (and therefore to make money off of a captive audience) feels like the first falling domino that sunk us into our current predicament. Certainly the Murdoch empire made its fortune that way.

jajuuka 10mo ago

Isn't the same true of in the EU though? Immigrants and refugees from Syria were treated quite harshly and has led to a significant rise in far right parties across Europe. These parties are actively harassing immigrants and non-white groups. But there doesn't seem to be riots in the streets over it. It's almost flipped how the US and Europe have dealt with threats. The US has a long history of organized hate groups having the run of things. I don't Europe has experienced anything like the KKK for as long. However Europe is not far removed from fascist and authoritarian regimes. So things are more fresh in the minds of citizens and they are more likely to fight them. However when attacked through another method it subverts that and allows tacit approval from the public while their neighborhoods are transformed for the worse.

embedding-shape 10mo ago
> These parties are actively harassing immigrants and non-white groups. But there doesn't seem to be riots in the streets over it. It is true, we have vigilante groups going around sometimes acting violent against people they think are immigrants, it is a real problem. It isn't all across Europe, and it isn't super common, but it happens, and that's enough. I think the difference is in who is coordinating these efforts, because none of those vigilante groups are the country's own border patrol doing that in "official business" capacity, they're small groups of individuals usually associated with some far-right political groups, rather than tax funded government groups. If the latter were to happen, you can be pretty sure people wouldn't put up with it, because most of us realize what's coming after that, because we were all forced to study history growing up. > So things are more fresh in the minds of citizens and they are more likely to fight them Yeah, this seems to be a big factor, most of us here (Europe) still have parents (and grand-parents) who remember and witnessed a lot of awful shit, and growing up would immediately reprimand you if you just pretended to like that, or carry thoughts in those veins.
NonHyloMorph 10mo ago
We are very weary of that in Europe. I consider it to be the case thag the "Rechtsruck" (sudden movement to the right) is a global phenomenon. Alls the right extremist are orienting themselves after the model of what Trumpism is doing which at least thats true for my personally, is why I am ver y concerned of what is happening kn the US. I grew up to a jazz sax playing father to whom the culture the GI brought here was progressive and related to freedom. It feels loke that idea of the US is dead now. As to why this phenomenon is happening - i would speculate that it has to do with the polarisation that is happening in the face a ever faster progressing disintegration of the social fabric into technology accompanied by the prospect of a scarcity of resources caused by an impeding breakdown of the biosphere and the climate system with which it coevolved plus on a more local scale an extreme increase of inequality of wealth distribution.

botanrice 10mo ago

man honestly all this stuff pisses me off but I'm just trying to survive over here in my own life. Got friends from all over but no one is really ready to put their life on the line. Like, most disagree with Trump's agenda, many find it offensive, but bottom line is staying healthy, finding work, paying bills, taking care of ppl immediately around you is more important. Truth is, lots of Americans are really divorced from the reality undocumented immigrants are facing right now. Lots of immigrants from 10-15+ years ago aren't worried if they are law abiding (anecdotal). The online rhetoric rly doesn't match daily life in my most places aside from the active hotbeds.

QuantumGood 10mo ago

You need to specify what you mean by "more than". Last night ICE agents were attacked with shovels, injuring one. A man was shot. BEFORE this began we had 7 million people protesting simultaneously nationwide—they are "out on the street" as you put it. With protests around the country every day. Minneapolis has organized hundreds into rapid response teams against ICE. The killings get more news than the protests, particularly as much of the media has been bought up by republican owners. You seem to be missing the news, and saying it does not exist. In Philadelphia, residents are being filmed patrolling with automatic weapons in advance of ICE supposedly heading there next. Read what @asa400, another local like myself, is saying in another comment to parent. Many locals on social media are cheering on the shootings. America is incredibly polarized right now. It's not like all the public is against the government. Nearly half of those most likely to vote in past elections support this.

cael450 10mo ago

A shocking number of Americans not only think all of this is great, but they wish it was them out there shooting their neighbors.

m0llusk 10mo ago

There are a lot of differences. Americans are not being passive. For one thing, reasonable or not there is still a lot of faith in the election process and many are expecting all this craziness will put Republicans on a back seat for decades. For another, these ICE groups are well armed and operate in numbers. Many Americans are also armed and have deep misgivings about political violence and where this is headed. Where you see "passive" many of us see "knife edge". Also, many live staying busy and near exhaustion to start with and have trouble coming to grips with just how bad this is as no one has ever shown this much contempt for laws without consequences. There is an expectation that the constitution will hold any test. And those following closely understand that just about everything Trump has done including tariffs are illegal and the courts are closing in. Worth mentioning that America does not have a protest culture like Europe. Being largely rural makes gathering for political expression impractical, and in this particular case Trump and his militias are deliberately trying to stir up chaos in order to rationalize cranking up the pressure. Protests make noise and get you targeted but what is needed now is real change.

tstrimple 10mo ago
> For one thing, reasonable or not there is still a lot of faith in the election process and many are expecting all this craziness will put Republicans on a back seat for decades. If only the country wasn't systematically designed to favor conservatives. Low population states have way too much influence on this country. It's one of the reasons we're so fucking backwards compared to the rest of the world. We're held hostage in part by places like Wyoming and Nebraska. Our House representation has been capped so we're getting fucked on representation and the electoral college as well. On top of that, the conservative's willingness to lie and cheat certainly puts them at significant advantage as well. Stunts like convincing someone with the same name as your opponent to run as well in hopes of confusing the voters and splitting up votes to running as a Democrat only to switch as soon as elected. Liberals just aren't equipped or willing to fight against conservative fuckery. If liberals fought half as hard to support their lip services towards helping people as conservatives fought for fucking people over, we might actually make progress in this country.

jasondigitized 10mo ago

Y'all got guns over there?

casey2 10mo ago

I'm guessing that the lady laying on her horn protesting ICE doesn't have many (or any) close friends/family

v0id24 10mo ago

Why then don't people unite against the dominance of not very friendly and culturally alien migrants, Muslims?

willmarch 10mo ago
Because your premise is untrue.
- v0id24 10mo ago
  Do you mean there's no problem? The appalling situation in France, Sweden, Great Britain and Belgium with crime, rapes, harassment of local residents and the associated financial losses on benefits is striking. Perhaps the situation is better in Spain - I haven't visited Spain in a long time.

guest__user 10mo ago

American here; studied and lived in France and participated in some big protests there. The US just doesn't have the protest/strike culture that Europe has, it's not part of our tradition; the majority of people don't even know how or understand the implications...Also most cities in the US are built for cars , not pedestrians and people on the street.

lesostep 10mo ago

I remember 5 years ago americans said same things about russian civil unrest. No grand penalty for violent rioting, you can get off with just prison time! There is a vast difference between believing that your nation would riot hard and having to risk your own life knowing that your loved ones that would be devastated if something happens.

zahlman 10mo ago

> Why are Americans so passive? You're literally transitioning into straight up authoritarianism, yet where are the riots? In the same place. You just aren't seeing footage of them on HN. > Is there more stuff actually happening on the ground There is, and there is lots of video of it. You only need search elsewhere. I have seen such footage. It's all over the place. I've cited examples of what I've seen in other comments. You can infer keyword search terms from the descriptions and should be able to find them readily with any search engine. > Are you not witnessing your government carrying out extra-judicial murders and then being protected by that same government? They are not "extra-judicial murders". The only people who have died so far have been those whose actions presented a serious threat to the life or safety of federal officers. Anyone who disagrees with my claim is welcome to provide contradictory evidence.

__MatrixMan__ 10mo ago

You're just describing a recipe for agents opening fire into a crowd. The opposition is doing it right: demonstrate to ICE that they're nonviolent, well coordinated, and much more numerous. If violence is warranted, the time and place for it is not when they're all together, armed to the teeth, and looking for a fight. It's when they're off duty, alone, and not expecting a confrontation.