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BYD's cheapest electric cars to have Lidar self-driving tech
- Tycho 9mo agoHow do you train a model to drive with LiDAR when the human drivers who generate the training data don’t use LiDAR?
- knallfrosch 9mo agoScan with LiDAR while manually driving.
- jayd16 9mo agoHell, you could even use slower offline 3d reconstruction of vision data for training, and still ultimately rely on runtime LiDAR.
- Tycho 9mo agoBut the driver isn’t reacting to any of the LiDAR readings, only what they can see, so what is the point?
- aniviacat 9mo agoYou label the recordings that involve a crash, and use the lidar to avoid doing the same.
- wongarsu 9mo agoMy impression was that the state of the are was still to generate high-level data from your inputs, then react with a mixture of ML and algorithmic rules to those inputs. For example you'd use a mix of LIDAR and vision to detect that there's a pedestrian, use past frames and ML to predict the pedestrian's next position, then algorithmically check whether your vehicle's path is likely to intersect with the pedestrian's path and take appropriate action if that's the case Under that model, LIDAR training data is easy to generate. Create situations in a lab or take recordings from real drives, label them with the high-level information contained in them and train your models to extract it. Making use of that information is the next step but doesn't fundamentally change with your sensor choice, apart from the amount of information available at different speeds, distances and driving conditions
- 8note 9mo agosimulate is one way. put the car in a video game and raytrace what the lidar would see
- cadamsdotcom 9mo agoDisruption at its finest :)
- senti_sentient 9mo agoSomeone said that LiDAR is too expensive, camera is better :)
- iknowstuff 9mo agoAnd then made the best adas on the market using cameras
- refulgentis 9mo agoI've struggled with this over the years, but think we can call it at this point: Waymo is definitely better. Just too much real world data. (i.e. scaled paid service, no drivers, multiple cities, for 1 year+)
- DustinBrett 9mo agoWe being who? What is your evidence it's better? The fact all the cars stopped moving when the power went out? The fact they cost WayMore? Show the evidence for your claims. And they have remote operators as proven by the power outage.
- refulgentis 9mo agoApologies, I was unclear with the "i.e." bit I assume, to spell it out: I think after struggling with it over years its time to call it because Waymo has a scaled paid service, no drivers, multiple cities, for 1 year+.
- DustinBrett 9mo agoBut I told you it wasn't without drivers, so where is the response there or acknowledgment of the fact they all went down?
- AnotherGoodName 9mo agoLidars come down in price ~40x. https://cleantechnica.com/2025/03/20/lidars-wicked-cost-drop/amp/ https://cleantechnica.com/2025/03/20/lidars-wicked-cost-drop... Meanwhile visible light based tech is going up in price due to competing with ai on the extra gpu need while lidar gets the range/depth side of things for free. Ideally cars use both but if you had to choose one or the other for cost you’d be insane to choose vision over lidar. Musk made an ill timed decision to go vision only. So it’s not a surprise to see the low end models with lidar.
- Tempest1981 9mo agoCould it also be about the looks? Waymo has a rather industrial look, with so many LiDARs, and the roof turret.
- golemiprague 9mo agoSome companies work on reducing the size of it so manufacturers will be able to put it inside the car behind the mirror. Innoviz is one example https://techtime.news/2025/11/14/innoviz-27/ https://techtime.news/2025/11/14/innoviz-27/
- refulgentis 9mo ago^ this, the article is quoting LIDAR price ($25K) from years ago.
- DustinBrett 9mo agoShow the cost differences and do the math then come back to us before you can suggest what decisions were ill timed. Otherwise it's just armchair engineering.
- refulgentis 9mo agoI'd love to take on this challenge: the article they linked shows the cost add for LIDAR (+$130) -- -- but I'm not sure how to get data on ex. how much Tesla is charged for a Nvidia whatever or what compute Waymo has -- My personal take is Waymo uses cameras too so maybe we have to assume the worst case, +full cost of lidar / +$130
- cyberax 9mo agoKeep in mind, that $25k AUD is just $16600. And for that price, you're getting a real car with driver-assist features and a reasonable crash safety rating. The US car manufacturers are cooked.
- aetherspawn 9mo agoI heard from a friend he paid around $12k AUD for the cheapest new ICE car, Holden brand, which I guess proves the west can compete if they try? Edit: Holden Spark.
- jhy 9mo agoNew? You haven't been able to buy a new Holden since '21.
- AnotherGoodName 9mo agoWell the best comparison are the Teslas which are made in China (all Teslas sold in Australia today) vs Teslas made in the USA. For the model 3 it’s USD$8000 cheaper like for like.
- pityJuke 9mo agoThe Holden Spark appears to just be a re-badge of a Chevrolet Spark, which was made by their South Korean subsidiary, and was discontinued three years ago [0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Spark#Discontinuation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Spark#Discontinuatio...
- vmchale 9mo ago> The US car manufacturers are cooked. Biden put a 100% tariff on Chinese cars and then Trump added tariffs on inputs. Americans are getting screwed!
- plemer 9mo agoWe in the US can't hide forever.
- DustinEchoes 9mo agoStill not convinced of the safety of lidar. I guess all these cars with cheap lidar sensors on board will generate real world safety data over the next few years.
- senti_sentient 9mo agoWhy not? And cheap is a relative term, from American point of view these sensors may be expensive because they have to buy it from suppliers, from BYD’s perspective it could be home grown given they are by far the most vertically integrated vehicle manufacturer.
- DustinEchoes 9mo agoSee here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46110395 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46110395
- neilv 9mo agoWhat if the real world safety data over time is... secret retinal damage to millions of walkers and runners, with symptoms attributed to Covid mysteries (and not obviously due to vision), and it takes years more before someone happens to get enough data, and does the right study analysis, and then there's industry with strong incentive not to be on the hook for blinding millions of people? If the tech industry has taught us anything, it's that big money is still as irresponsible and greedy as ever. I suppose that one small bit of hope is that one of the most obvious bad actors in general happened to be opposed to Lidar, and might like to screw competitors with a scandal. So the news might come out, after much tragic damage is done.
- Tempest1981 9mo agoThe roof mount seems very practical, but it's a look that may turn off some buyers... buyers who care about looks. For SUVs, maybe it could be blended in with a roof air scoop, like on some off-road trucks. Or a light bar. Where is the LiDAR on the Atto 1? In the grille? How much worse is the field of view?
- senti_sentient 9mo agoMy personal take is that if users can get used to the notch on the iPhone , they could get used to that too.
- protastus 9mo agoMy impression is that Chinese consumer products haven't been hijacked by the "design above everything else" mindset. The priority is to make things work at scale. American product design is obsessed with appearance and finish. Products end up costing 3 times more and functionality is degraded.
- barbazoo 9mo agoAlso car as a status symbol. If you look at it more utilitarian it’s not that bad as long it’s somehow compatible with a roof rack or box.
- senti_sentient 9mo agoI have noticed that in Chinese web / app design philosophy as well, it’s always function over form.
- JBlue42 9mo agoFor real? Every car has looked the same for past 10-15 years. Crossover SUV no matter the brand or big ass truck with flat front. Not to mention the monstrosity that is the Cybertruck that should never have been allowed on the road.
- didntknowyou 9mo agoi think over time tastes will change as people appreciate that function can define form, unlike the other way round
- hnburnsy 9mo agoRelated: Volvo drops LIDAR... https://www.carscoops.com/2025/11/volvo-says-sayonara-to-lidar-sensors/ https://www.carscoops.com/2025/11/volvo-says-sayonara-to-lid...
- senti_sentient 9mo agoAren’t they Chinese owned?
- vachina 9mo agoTheir lidar implementation was burning other people’s camera sensors
- ra7 9mo agoVolvo had contract issues with Luminar: > In a statement, a Volvo Cars USA spokesperson added the decision was made “to limit the company’s supply chain risk exposure, and it is a direct result of Luminar’s failure to meet its contractual obligations to Volvo Cars.”
- teleforce 9mo agoAre you serious, a car with Lidar sensor that's not even available in Bugatti Tourbillon that cost 500x more? Joking aside, this BYD Seagull, or Atto 1 in Australia (AUD$24K) and Dolphin Surf in Europe (￡18K in the UK), is one the cheapest EV cars in the world and selling at around ￡6K in China. It's priced double in Australia and triple in the UK compared to its original price in China. It's also one of China best selling EV cars with 60K unit sold per month on average. Most of the countries scrambling to block its sales to protect their own car industry or increase the tariff considerably. It's a game changing car and it really deserve the place in EV car world Hall of Fame, as one of the legendary cars similar Austin 7, the father of modern ICE car including BMW Dixi and Datsun Type 11. [1] BYD_Seagull: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Seagull https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Seagull [2] Austin 7: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_7 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_7
- dotancohen 9mo agoI agree with every word about the BYD, in fact I just recently helped a family member buy one. But how would you pick the Austin 7 over the Model T as your example revolutionary car? Serious question, you're obviously knowledgeable if you mentioned that vehicle.
- teleforce 9mo agoYou can check the video on the early generation cars reviewed by the famous Top Gear team members [1]. Austin 7 and its derivatives (notably Dixi that kickstarted the highly successful BMW car business), dictated and popularized the modern car architecture, interfaces and controls stereotype as we know today. In order to drive old cars prior to Austin 7, we probably need a manual before we can drive them except the Cadillac Type 53 car, the original car that heavily inspired the Austin 7. Austin 7 is the lightest car and cheapest proper car of its generation, and even by today's standard and inflation. As crazy as it sounds you can even drive it now in the UK road without any modification [2]. It become the template of modern cars, made popular in the UK, Germany and Japan, and then the rest of the world since these three countries are major manufacturers of modern cars. The lighweight and low cost price of the baby Seagull (smallest BYD), is very similar to Baby Austin (popular name for Austin 7 in the UK) innovation criteria. [1] Jeremy Clarkson and James May Find the First Car [video]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46409075 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46409075 [2] Everyone should try this! 1924 Austin Seven - no synchromesh, uncoupled brakes, in the rain! [video]: https://youtu.be/HpwSKVJptKw https://youtu.be/HpwSKVJptKw
- ekjhgkejhgk 9mo agoTesla is so dead.
- lamontcg 9mo agoTrade protectionism in the USA will keep it going here. We're going to look so backwards and "soviet" after a while.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- senti_sentient 9mo agoIt will still be there as a meme stock
- black_13 9mo ago[dead]
- cchance 9mo agoNot gonna lie if BYD came to the US, i'd sell my Model 3 in a heartbeat like 0 debate
- paxys 9mo agoThat's the reason why it will never be allowed to come to the US.
- mxkopy 9mo ago“Competition breeds innovation”
- amanaplanacanal 9mo agoAmerican oligarchs won't put up with any competition.
- roadbuster 9mo agoIt has less to do with "oligarchs" and more to do with protectionism over domestic industry: retain jobs in America, preserve worker income taxes revenue, capture taxation of corporate profits, tilt the scales in favour of an American business becoming a global exporter of their products, keep development of high-tech assets under American regulatory control.
- Sohcahtoa82 9mo agoI'd expect all the free-market capitalists and libertarians to make a lot of noise against government interference, even if the purpose is to retain domestic jobs.
- HDThoreaun 9mo agoUWA wont put up with any competition
- machomaster 9mo ago
- VerifiedReports 9mo agoHow do we know that all these lasers aren't harming people's eyes?
- SideQuark 9mo agoBecause we have science. Laser frequency, power, and pulse length, among other things, are chosen to be eye safe. You’ll get far more energy dumped into your eye from a blue sky.
- VerifiedReports 9mo agoDo you have the science?
- lngnmn2 9mo ago[dead]
- Animats 9mo agoNarrow field of view LIDAR units have been moderately priced for years. Forward looking LIDAR is useful for anti-collision systems. It doesn't yield the situational awareness of full coverage needed for full autonomy, but it's good for putting on the brakes.
- rippeltippel 9mo agoHow much "connected" are BYD cars, in terms of sending drivers' data to their Chinese mothership?
- senti_sentient 9mo agoProbably less than what’s being sent to the “American Empire” by Teslas
- ggm 9mo agoI don't expect FSD any time soon. I think its bunkum. But assistive devices are well embedded. reversing tones. rear vision cameras. So, adding something which can do side knock, pavement risk, sideswipe, blind spot, or 'pace to car in front' type stuff is a bit obvious if you ask me, and if it's optional, then all I want is the minimal wiring harness cost amortized out so retrofit isn't too hard. I hope BYD also continues to do "real switches" and "smaller TV dashboard" choices because I'm not a fan of touch screen, and large screen.
- simianparrot 9mo agoWhy do we want CCP vehicles spying on us outside China? Did we forget everything we learned over the last decades..?
- aurareturn 9mo agoIf you're a US citizen, it's far safer for the CCP to be spying on you than the US government.
- simianparrot 9mo agoThat's such a dishonest argument.
- wtcactus 9mo agoMy present car is 18 years (and, other than 2 non functioning buttons that I decided I didn’t want to pay to replace), working perfectly fine. And, I should say, I’m a terrible owner. This car had (at most) 10 maintenance checks (and oil changes) in its life. Emphasis in “at most”. I intend to buy a new one in about 3 years and there’s no chance in hell I’m going for something shiny that breaks after 5 years like this fully made in China stuff (even Teslas are cumbersome to maintain according to statistics). I want a car to last at least 15 years with very little servicing, not some disposable tech gadget that I can’t be sure it will work next month without some shop time. P.S. The car is a Mazda 2.
- senti_sentient 9mo agoChinese cars have come a long way, most of them have better quality than any European maker. And almost of them come with very long warranty periods as well. Go take a test drive in one to find out what you been missing out on.
- wtcactus 9mo ago> Chinese cars have come a long way, most of them have better quality than any European maker. That's just not true. They absolutely don't. There's no chance in hell most (or any for that matter) Chinese carmaker has better quality than a Volvo, or a BMW, or a Mercedes or an Audi, or, etc, etc
- senti_sentient 9mo agoFeel free to live in your cocoon, I have owned several euro cars, including e36 m3. Now own BYD Dolphin and Shark, the European car industry is history mate.
- wtcactus 9mo agoSure we should all trust your word instead of the readily available stats that say exactly the opposite..
- burnt-resistor 9mo agoSo is this true, or only true for Australian markets? I've seen (presumably real from reputable sellers) BYD cars on AliBaba for $9500 USD. Not US or probably even EU homologation, but vehicles that could be used off-road or in remote areas elsewhere.
- michaelhoney 9mo agoI would love to see self-driving cars start to incorporate thermal cameras for animal avoidance. A deer or a kangaroo can come out of nowhere visually, but would be easily detectable with a wide-angle thermal camera.