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Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density
- dzonga 9mo agoif this is production ready right now - can't wait to see what CATL and BYD bring to market this year cz 100k cycles is impressive
- NullHypothesist 9mo agoDefinitely a "huge if true" headline. Seems like there's natural skepticism here (https://electrek.co/2026/01/05/verge-unveils-370-mile-electric-motorcycle-with-solid-state-battery/ https://electrek.co/2026/01/05/verge-unveils-370-mile-electr...), but boy, if it works... Hopefully would be a bellwether for commercial solid-state truly emerging in the next few years. Fingers crossed this is true.
- tedk-42 9mo agoI'm very skeptical of any company that just 'pops up' and makes a bunch of claims that will shake up the industry. I doubt they'd sell to endusers, but not having any partnerships with established brands with sales figures is a big red flag. No mention of manufacturing capabilities either so I think it's just hype (or worse a rug pull for early investors)
- notTooFarGone 9mo agoLet's wait until Q2 when the first bikes with ssb would roll out
- Terr_ 9mo agoSome poking around suggests it's a subsidiary of "Verge Motorcycles", which are electric and have much more of a web presence.
- Animats 9mo agoAgreed. But you can supposedly book a test ride on a Verge motorcycle with this battery.[1] Verge has three stores in California, two of which are in Silicon Valley. Base price $35,000 with the good battery. Solid state batteries have been working for a while now, but they're still far too expensive. Mercedes has one demo car. Ducati has one demo motorcycle. Maybe they just decided to accept the high cost and sell a high-end product. [1] https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/ https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/
- tyleo 9mo agoYeah, I’m wondering if it could be a Tesla strategy of starting with the something imperfect but niche. If the product is on the market and you can buy one and walk out the door, I feel like claims can easily be validated or invalidated with a tear down.
- nine_k 9mo agoNot even a teardown. Just a few charge + discharge cycles, measuring the energy.
- Fred27 9mo agoI'm not sure the test rides are for the version of the bike with this battery. The bike already exists with a more conventional battery pack. I've had a brief test ride on a pre-production version of the Verge TS. All seemed OK but I thought the handling seemed weird - maybe due to the rear tyre size and geometry.
- jaggs 9mo agoUm... Did nobody see the Verge motorbike which is now shipping as standard with this battery? And the three companies which are also deploying the new battery tech? If this is a scam, it's definitely a very very sophisticated one.
- cloudfudge 9mo ago"Now shipping?" I do not see evidence of that. I am not even convinced the one you can test ride has this battery tech. They announced this same bike at least a year ago with regular LIon batteries.
- Electricniko 9mo agoI don't know about a scam, but the EV skateboard they're using has been available for other companies to use for a few years, while the other two companies share the same leadership as Donut/Verge and appear to be founded within the last few months. The battery may be great, but the multiple company launch seems a bit of a marketing gimmick.
- fragmede 9mo agoHow would you do it, instead?
- jaggs 9mo agonot too sure of your point. The skateboard has been available with conventional lithium ion batteries. What they're saying here is they've just upgraded it to the new solid state ones. Fairly logical.And I'm totally mystified by the shared leadership comment. What shared leadership?
- Electricniko 9mo agoAccording to press releases, the CEO of Donut/Verge founded Cova and ESOX in October/November. They're newly formed companies that haven't done anything yet, so I don't really think it would require much sophistication to say that three companies have already adopted this technology. Again, this doesn't say anything about the "realness" of the battery technology, I just wouldn't rely on the idea that multiple companies adopting it means that the technology is real, since right now it's tending to look more like businessmen throwing out multiple shell startups in different industries to lend weight to the announcement.
- nomel 9mo agoif you look at the history of the lithium ion battery [1], this is exactly what happened, except from a single man. none of the existing manufacturers could stomach the shift to something new, except for sony, which needed a better battery for their camcorder, eventually resulting in a nobel prize. [1] https://youtu.be/AGglJehON5g https://youtu.be/AGglJehON5g
- Aloisius 9mo agoNo company involved in lithium ion batteries just popped up out of nowhere. Whittingham worked for ExxonMobil. Akira Yoshino worked at a joint venture of Toshiba and Asahi Kasei. And Yoshio Nishi worked at Sony. They were all giant well-established companies.
- brokencode 9mo agoPlus, every major battery and car company is chasing solid state battery technology as the holy grail. And lots of startups.
- _heimdall 9mo agoWhen I was buying lithium ion cells a few years ago for a custom off-grid battery build, CATL cells had the best reviews and testing results around. They were founded in 2011 as a spin-off from ATL, itself founded in 1999 by a Chinese billionaire (Robin Zeng). They definitely didn't pop up out of nowhere.
- tckk 9mo agoThey didn't just pop up. Oems & their sister company Verge are already using their axial flux motors. And you can order the latest Verge motorcycle with the solid state battery today.
- cyberax 9mo agoNo physical address, no patents, no mentions of independent testing, the whole "drag&drop OS to build EVs". Totally legit.
- Animats 9mo agoYou can supposedly go see the bike at the Verge store at Westfield Valley Fair, 2855 Stevens Creek Blvd., Santa Clara, CA 95050-6709. That's a large mall near Apple HQ. Open until 9 PM. Someone in Silicon Valley should stop by on their way home today and take a picture. You can't just pay $35,000 and ride it away, though. They're just taking pre-orders. Still, at least you can go kick the tires and make sure it's not just a render on the web site. It's an overly clever design; the rear wheel is hubless.
- TheRealPomax 9mo agoPretty sure we established several times over that hubless wheels are a solution in search of a problem - they don't make a bike better, they make it worse in almost every way except looks.
- cwmoore 9mo agoVery attractive.
- jonah 9mo agoMore unsprung weight. Great!
- cloudfudge 9mo agoYes, when I see hubless wheels, my immediate thought is, "why did they spend engineering time on this when their goal was completely unrelated to it?" It makes me think they needed a smokescreen.
- macintux 9mo agoAny good way to visually establish whether the battery is solid state, however?
- ruralfam 9mo agoBeen following/hoping for the ultimate battery for... a few decades now I think. Donut reads as a home run of sorts. However... during those decades reading about "new tech" that promised great gains, all ended up in the dustbin of history. I really, really hope Donut is for real. Breath. Not. Holding. HTH, RF ps: Just ordered two new dog collar lights cause the relatively new ones we had fully discharged while the mutts were outside. Now they wont charge. Jesus I hate LiOn.
- cloudfudge 9mo agoFrom the donutlab page: > It can be charged to full in just five minutes without limiting charging to 80%, and supports full discharge safely, repeatedly, and reliably. From the motorcycle youtube video[1]: > delivers up to 370 miles (600 km) of range and adds up to 186 miles (300 km) in under 10 minutes One is claiming 100% in 5 minutes, and the other is claiming ~50% in 10 minutes. Why are their claims so different? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy_mXYItqXU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy_mXYItqXU
- ZeWaka 9mo agoTemperature thresholds, maybe the bike has active cooling?
- cloudfudge 9mo agoOr maybe swags since this is vapor. I look forward to finding out.
- notjes 9mo agoTo charge the average Tesla in 5 minutes you need about 1MW and cables as thick as a forearm.
- slaw 9mo ago1 MW chargers don't look any bigger than standard chargers. https://insideevs.com/news/761403/byd-thousands-megawatt-chargers-china/ https://insideevs.com/news/761403/byd-thousands-megawatt-cha...
- nine_k 9mo agoThe thickness of the cables is often due to their water cooling. Transferring 1 MW at 99.9% efficiency means 1kW escaping as heat.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- ZeWaka 9mo agoSome speculation from friends that I was reading is that the battery could be Sodium-based, there's another battery startup in Finland using that same tech. No spec sheets though.
- aappleby 9mo agoSodium ion battery energy density is too low for anything but bulk storage.
- jmward01 9mo agoBYD would disagree with you [1]. A lot of weight is the packaging. Sodium ion is a lot safer so it generally needs less packaging (at least that is my understanding). [1] https://thenextavenue.com/2025/07/23/how-byds-sodium-ion-batteries-could-revolutionize-ev-costs/ https://thenextavenue.com/2025/07/23/how-byds-sodium-ion-bat...
- metalman 9mo agothey dont use the word patented, but claim to have engineered the battery but avoid discussing any particulars of chemistry, other than to say it is not lithium, which strongly suggests a silent partner. At 35k for a bike they have to be more forthcoming, though as there are only be so many serious solid state battery developers out there, and even less working on non lithium, someone will put the pieces together quick.
- theLegionWithin 9mo agoI guess we'll see what happens in ~5 years
- Freebytes 9mo agoSome models of the motorcycle are available right now and can charge to 80% in 10 minutes and go ~350 miles. Unless it is a scam, and you will not get your motorcycle... However, this seems legitimate.
- zdragnar 9mo agoThe models with the new battery are preorder only, and with a price tag of $35k. The tech needs to go to another company that can produce something more people are able and willing to buy, and that's going to take a few years before it has a meaningful impact on the market.
- p1mrx 9mo agoIf this is true, it's possible that the technology is from Nordic Nano. That would at least explain how a motor/software company could pull a battery out of thin air: https://www.donutlab.com/nordic-nano-investment/ https://www.donutlab.com/nordic-nano-investment/ Their chief scientist is working on solar-powered hydrogen production, which seems fairly unrelated to solid state batteries: https://www.nordicnano.co/chief-scientist-bela-bhuskute-will-defend-her-doctoral-thesis-at-tampere-university-on-may-28-with-a-title-tio%E2%82%82-based-photocatalysts-for-solar-fuel-production/ https://www.nordicnano.co/chief-scientist-bela-bhuskute-will... Though TiO2 nanoparticles appear to be relevant to battery research in general: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsaem.3c02304 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsaem.3c02304
- dm808 9mo agoYes, it is from Nordic Nano. It is nanoprinted and trivially scalable. Free of lithium, cadmium, lead, and cobalt. Uses abundant raw materials free from geopolitical constraints. https://yle.fi/a/74-20118784 https://yle.fi/a/74-20118784 Factory in Finland, started around Q3/2025. https://yle.fi/a/74-20180376 https://yle.fi/a/74-20180376 Verge Motorcycles bike with the new battery at CES, apparently at West Hall 5658. Video: https://youtu.be/vmsxYznW9Fs https://youtu.be/vmsxYznW9Fs Donut Lab booth here: https://www.ces.tech/events/ces-unveiled-las-vegas/exhibitor-list/#D https://www.ces.tech/events/ces-unveiled-las-vegas/exhibitor...
- anttisalmela 9mo ago> The company aims to have the pre-production equipment needed to manufacture prototypes operational by the end of this (2025) year. Actual production is scheduled to begin in late summer 2026. Well, maybe there's enough prototype production for motor cycles.
- dust42 9mo ago> It is nanoprinted and trivially scalable. Nanoprinted snakeoil - infinitely scalable. Good enough to grab 3M€ public grants and some more from gullible private investors. Honestly, if they had the tiniest proof of their claims (400Wh/kg, 5min 0-100%, operating temp -30°C to 100°C, no Li/Co/Mn and somebody looking at the production and taking the output to the test) they would be absolutely drowned in money to the point that sama would become jealous. > Factory in Finland, started around Q3/2025. https://yle.fi/a/74-20180376 https://yle.fi/a/74-20180376 That is only a picture of a factory building. They are 100% greenwash grant grabbers with no real substance. There are plenty of these people in Europe. The motorcycle is likely in China designed and produced. If grant grabbing is what you'd consider a fulfilling life, then come to Europe - it will be an El Dorado for you.
- _carbyau_ 9mo agoSeems vaporware at the moment. But has anyone else had thoughts on how solid "solid state" batteries are? IE could the frame of my next motorbike be made from solid state batteries?
- viraptor 9mo agoIn theory. There's a few "car frame made of solid state batteries" idea explorations on YouTube. Of course someone actually has to make it. And ensure you don't electrocute the emergency personnel touching the car, after you get into a crash.
- stevage 9mo ago>With Verge Motorcycles bikes now using the company’s solid state battery technology in vehicles out on the road in use in Q1 Claiming that a technology is shipping imminently doesn't fit the normal definition of vapourware.
- _carbyau_ 9mo agoHas it shipped? Has it been reviewed? Has it been verified in any way? So it is vapourware, at the moment. In the next moment some source of verification could appear, which is fine, then it wouldn't be vapourware. But as of commenting - as of the moment - this is the state of affairs.
- recursive 9mo agoAll claims fit the definition of vaporware until and unless it's actually shipping to real customers.
- Qwertious 9mo agoSolid doesn't mean structural strength. Uncompacted snowflakes are solid, nobody builds things with them (igloos etc are compacted or ice).
- _carbyau_ 9mo agoCuriously, anyone doubting the veracity of the claims has been voted down. If anything, this makes me more cynical that this is a marketing exercise on something that continues to be vapourware until independently verified. If anyone wants to show/link to an independent verification, feel free!
- bigwheels 9mo ago[flagged]
- sfink 9mo agoBased wholly on the claims in the article: [x] it is impractical to manufacture at scale. [?] it will be too expensive for users. (Cost unknown, but it's part of a $35K motorcycle, which somewhat limits the possible range unless there's VC chum involved.) [x] it suffers from too few recharge cycles. [x] it is incapable of delivering current at sufficient levels. (Motorcycle, again.) [x] it lacks thermal stability at low or high temperatures. [x] it lacks the energy density to make it sufficiently portable. (400 Wh/kg is better than Li-Ion) [x] it has too short of a lifetime. [x] its charge rate is too slow. [x] its materials are too toxic. [x] it is too likely to catch fire or explode. [x] it is too minimal of a step forward for anybody to care. [x] this was already done 20 years ago and didn't work then. [x] by this time it ships li-ion advances will match it. (not directly addressed, but in combination with the rest, I'll give this a pass.) [?] your claims are lies. It kinda looks like they read through this exact list and addressed every item but the last. Where by "addressed", I mean simply that: they made a claim regarding the item.
- akoboldfrying 9mo ago> [x] it suffers from too few recharge cycles. 100000 recharge cycles is "too few"? Or are you using "x" to mean "this claim is rejected"? If so, on what grounds do you assert "[x] by this time it ships li-ion advances will match it"?
- sfink 9mo agoI am using "x" to mean that the line item is addressed by the article. Sorry, I guess that's backwards from the original intent of the checklist. I am saying that the article addresses every reason for doubt that the checklist raises (save for the last, which it can't). Whether the technology actually addresses that shortcoming is another question, but the article does claim to have solved every single one of those common drawbacks. As for the item about li-ion advances, I think the claimed capabilities are well beyond what li-ion could reasonably be expected to reach in the short remaining timeframe claimed. tl;dr: the checklist is a cynical but normally accurate way of spotting fatal flaws in newly announced battery technology. Based on the announcement, this technology suffers from none of the flaws listed therein.
- jmward01 9mo agoExtraordinary claims come up all the time in the battery world. The thing is though with so many claims popping up all the time a few actually turn out to be true on a pretty regular basis. We will see if this is among them! At the pace battery technology is advancing I can almost believe this isn't actually that bold of a claim actually.
- nubinetwork 9mo agoWhat exactly makes them solid state? If they mean no water, wouldn't that make all li-ion batteries solid state when compared to lead acid batteries?
- Tuna-Fish 9mo agoNormal lithium-ion batteries have a liquid electrolyte. It's not water, but some carbohydrate. During draining and charging, ions travel between the electrodes through the electrolyte.
- maximgeorge 9mo ago[dead]
- nine_k 9mo ago> Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density This is damn impressive. I suppose all the makers of military drones are lining up at the factory already. I mean, electric bikes are fine, but who has the most burning need to increase range and payload?..
- trhway 9mo agoi don't see them mentioning of price and C-rating. Suppose their C-rating is sufficient. Current widely available cheap batteries are almost 300Wh/kg. So, on a 3 kg drone with up to 3 kg payload (say RPG-7 single shaped charge warhead) with say 30 min flight time the new battery will give you 10 min additional flight time. At what price? If the price results in having only one 40 min drone instead of 2 30 min drones, then in the current war, only say 10% drones would need to be with new batteries, while it would be most effective to have the rest with the old batteries as the current war seems to be about horizontal scaling. Overall - their page sounds like a revolution in battery industry as they hit all the points - durability, capacity/weight, fast charging, etc. It is like Musk should just close his GigaFactory. I mean, i would like such a revolutionary development as in particular it would mean we'll soon get personal VTOLs (where price aspect is less important than in the case of drones mentioned above) ...
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- rubyn00bie 9mo agoYeah, I was noticing that too. There is a company out there, Amprius, which has validated their silicon anode lithium ion batteries that can discharge at 10C (or 20C pulses), have varying densities from ~345wh/kg to 450wh/kg, and are shipping them to customers for drones and VTOLs. I think until we have an independent lab verify the results, it's pretty much impossible to say if their (Donut Labs) claims are true or not. The only thing I'm particularly suspicious of is that they claim their battery was verified but didn't say by who or provide a whitepaper on it. Both of those seem to be the bare minimum for most battery manufacturers, and with their extraordinary claims I'd assume they'd have them front and center.
- jjcm 9mo agoOne of the things I haven't seen discussed yet in the comments is this claim: Clay-like design freedom They're claiming this not only can fit custom geometries, but can be part of the structure itself. Would love to see what they're building this out of. I expect we'll see some people dissecting the verve cycle batteries soon enough.
- tw04 9mo agoI don’t see any mention of clay in the article, just this: > It can be produced in custom sizes, voltages, and geometries, enabling structural integration and non-traditional formats like serving as the body of a drone or a vehicle chassis. Battery packs are part of the structure of basically all EVs. That’s not really something new or unique.
- taneq 9mo agoYeah but they’re usually a rectangular prism, more or less.
- calmbonsai 9mo agoThe real issue with "clay-like design freedom" is the collective knock-on effects of thermal and conductive inefficiencies. We've had "clay-like design freedom" since the early days of carbon-zinc batteries, but it turns out that it's far better (both for manufacturing, chemistry, and safety) to have a continuous volume of relative thermal and electrolytic quiescence that's, largely, isolated from physical strains. That this is even being highlighted as a "feature" makes other claims even more dubious. Suffice to say that any battery ("electrolytic cell") that's undergoing dynamic strains will have vastly different levels of conductivity (hence power output and contribution to thermal load) than one that is geometrically static. Put another way, the performance gains from utilizing the motor as a "stressed member" (akin to F1 monocoque) in combustion vehicles was only possible circa 50+ years after the invention of the 4-stroke cycle. Talk to me in ~20 years. FWIW, my degree is in electrical engineering and I worked on our college's solar car back when "solar car racing" was "a thing". You do not want the stressed members of any structure being a salient contributor to its power-train. Not related, see mammalian, reptile, fish, and insect physiologies.
- cm2012 9mo agoIf true, would have massive geopolitical implications. 1) China has gone all in on batteries. A competitor from Finland would be shocking. Scale is the real issue. 2) Luckily Finland hates Russia so this probably can't be used for Russian drones
- cogman10 9mo agoNah. Being able to scale out is far more important than the underlying tech ultimately. I'd expect that China would pretty quickly copy this if it proves out and would likely start outstripping them.
- amarant 9mo agoI don't really see why Finland would be unable to scale production though? Expensive workforce? Surely that could be worked around, Sweden still produces semis and have similarly costly workforce. What other impediments do they even face?
- Alex2037 9mo agobecause building things in Europe requires complying with a myriad laws and regulations.
- thenaturalist 9mo agoNot sure why you’re being downvoted, this is objectively true. Saying this as a German, where the economy is the worst it’s been in decades and our federal government acts incapable at changing this so far. Anyone who’s been to China, Israel or the US will be familiar with the pragmatism and, more importantly speed things happen in these places. I do like Europes rules on civil liberty and privacy protections, but let’s not pretend the bureaucracy is on a unique scale across the board.
- mnau 9mo ago> Saying this as a German, where the economy is the worst it’s been in decades and our federal government acts incapable at changing this so far. That's not true. Germany has a 200-points plan on reducing the bureaucracy. At first it sounds like a joke, but actual points would be transformative if all points were done... I don't see it happening. As an example, automatic approvals if a response is done within a deadline would be huge. I don't see that happening. Or possibly happening, then there will be a scandal, and it will be rolled back. Another funny trick is a "We are looking at it" response, or "The EIA doesn't use standardized language in ground water section, rework it" (EIA was made by company that specializes in that).
- stevage 9mo agoInteresting - Donut apparently also manufactures innovative motors.
- 1970-01-01 9mo agoSo solid state battery tech is very likely on-schedule for mass production over the next 4 years. There really isn't much time left for the haters to post stories attempting to factually dismantle and dismiss EVs before EVs pass the 51% adoption curve in 2030.
- xbmcuser 9mo agoFor me current battery tech is already good enough for passenger ev they cant even use the full charging speed capacity or the charge discharge cycles. Solid state batteries might be useful for heavy duty trucking or aeroplanes/drones
- wat10000 9mo agoCost, volume, and weight are still significant constraints. Existing batteries obviously can make for some good cars, but they could be better. It doesn’t have to be more range or faster charging, it could be the same range and charging speed but 25% lighter and cheaper.
- xbmcuser 9mo agoCost is no longer a concern as today LFP batteries and electric motor price is cheaper than an ice engine in China. Though my main point is that there is a lack of infrastructure to charge at full speed current batteries so higher capacity faster charging solid state batteries are mostly pointless when you cant charge them fast or to full capacity.
- wat10000 9mo agoIt's still a major expense. Reducing costs is good. Higher capacity and faster charging doesn't have to actually mean more capacity and faster charging. It can mean smaller and lighter for the same capacity and charging speed. If you have a technology with 10x the energy density, you can build a car that goes 3000 miles on a charge, or you can build a car that goes 300 miles on a charge and has a battery only 10% the size/weight. (In practice a even a bit less than that, since the reduced size/weight will reduce how much energy you use per mile.)
- tonyhart7 9mo agowhat about the price tho ??? I think the biggest hurdle for EV is in need for cheaper battery tech
- tckk 9mo agoDonut claim their price is lower than current lithium ion cells.
- kevinsync 9mo agoThe press release says they're demonstrating this at CES 2026, which starts tomorrow (Jan 6, 2026) so I imagine we'll have some kind of verification one way or the other.. Or maybe CES is already happening?? [0] [0] https://www.cnet.com/home/electric-vehicles/donut-lab-production-solid-state-battery-ces-2026/ https://www.cnet.com/home/electric-vehicles/donut-lab-produc...
- scythe 9mo agoThere's no mention of the underlying cell chemistry on the landing page or under the "battery" tab, and only three people listed under the "About Us" of which the only one who sounds remotely technical is Ville Piippo, so I punched him into Google Scholar and found this: https://aaltodoc.aalto.fi/items/a9608639-3897-4878-979b-0d9585b19d95 https://aaltodoc.aalto.fi/items/a9608639-3897-4878-979b-0d95... If this guy has developed a revolutionary new battery cell then he has really learned a lot in ten years. So we have no chemistry and no researchers but this startup claims to have blown everyone else out of the water. We'll see, I guess.
- ex-aws-dude 9mo agoI don’t understand, why would this debut only in a motorcycle? Wouldn’t there be a much bigger market and investor interest in putting it in a car initially?
- john01dav 9mo agoA guess: existing charging infrastructure is too slow/low power to charge this fast enough to be useful over currently standard batteries for car sized batteries
- sneak 9mo agoI would assume it’s a capacity/scaling thing, plus bizdev. Car companies source things on much longer timescales and build many many more units.
- markbao 9mo ago+1. There’s also more upstart motorcycle makers than car makers willing to take a bet on new tech. Plus the difficulty of scaling manufacturing to serve much larger capacity car batteries.
- Gibbon1 9mo agoWhen I've looked at the power and energy requirements of vehicles it seems to follow some sort of log(size) law when it comes to speed and energy per mass distance. But not for acceleration which is linear. What that means is a small vehicle like a motorcycle needs more energy and hp per lb than a car to have the same range. So could see higher performance batteries being very useful for motorcycles. Have heard noises that electric motorcycles and bicycles are heavy feeling. So lighter probably would be considered better.
- mrtksn 9mo agoIt can be many things, like large car companies staying away from unproven tech or them demanding production capacities too large to gamble with brand new tech. This niche motorcycle brand has already established business relationships with Donut Lab, they were using Donut Lab's electric motors. Probably the Donut people easily worked out a release pipeline together in a bar or something, which would have taken years with VW.
- Workaccount2 9mo agoThis is so out of left field and so "ideal" that it warrants some pretty heavy skepticism. Donut isn't even a battery company, and plenty of other battery companies with lots of knowledge and lots more money have been pouring over this problem with mixed results. Because of this, now I am even a bit skeptical of their electric motor claims, which before I didn't really question much at all.
- ineedasername 9mo agoThey’re making very direct, no caveat statements though, using words like “now”, “immediately”, and “in production”. So if it’s a bluff, they haven’t left themselves much wiggle room with weasel words. I don’t see any wiggle room. And if that’s that case then a failure to deliver would be have to be more “wow, yeah, turns out forgot a decimal point and messed up some imperial-metric confusion”. Or “my teenager kid found the blog unlocked and thought it would be awesome no-press-is-bad-press PR stunt. Sorry”
- donny2018 9mo agoThis, and apparently they don’t have a track record of producing bluffware before. They already have some interesting know-how heavy products, and previously they have fully delivered on them.
- greenavocado 9mo agoWay too good to be true
- bawolff 9mo agoSo, cheaper, higher density, no difficult to acquire elements needed, works in -30 weather, does not degrade over time, and safer. Basically a magic battery that is better on every possible metric. This could be world changing. Either they are lying about something, or they are about to be the richest company on the planet out of nowhere.
- aetherspawn 9mo agoSolid state batteries already exist, but they’re unreliable. A few bus companies have been messing around with them over the last few years, even putting them on public roads. One had a huge recall when they started delaminating after a year or so. They are not as safe, light or as good as advertised. Yet. After delaminating, some caught fire. Most wet chemistries (LFP) are safer than current dry chemistries. Donut claim they have GWhr manufacturing capability. The way they claim that feels very third-person. That being the case, chances are they just white-labelled someone else’s cell technology and packaged the cells in a box (this is super common, virtually every company in eMobility does this with CATL/LG/Sony cells). Technically it’s a battery made by Donut, yes, but in that case Donut don’t have the valuable IP so don’t be so quick to jump to buy shares or whatever. Making a battery box is fairly easy.
- Workaccount2 9mo agoIt would be embarrassing if they jumped the gun with promises from a Chinese oem who was also just white labeling some other Chinese battery. Or giving engineering samples to Donut from a process with a 1% yield hoping they can figure it out in time. To put in HN terms, if someone sold you a 20TB SDcard knowing your R/W speeds are limited to 100kbps, it's going to take you a while to confirm that the card is actually 20TB. Rough analogy, but there are similar ways you can hide true battery performance. It's just extremely suspect that a company full of mechanical and electrical engineers, who made (supposed) blow out gains in electrical motors this year, also found the holy grail of (battery) chemical engineering too.
- chrisbrandow 9mo agoHopefully this shakes out better than eestor… iykyk
- sheepscreek 9mo agoThis is so out there, checks every box imaginable or they’ve done some incredible copy writing. So then, elephant in the room, where is the catch? It’s it the cost? They haven’t left much else - - made from geopolitically abundant resources - unlikely to catch fire - fully charges in 5 mins - does not lose capacity over cycles - retains 99% capacity at -30C and 100C What is today, April 1st??
- tonyhart7 9mo agooh yes the good old of pick two from good,cheap,fast
- bawolff 9mo ago> [Is] it the cost? The press release also claims: "and demonstrates a lower cost than lithium-ion." !
- impossiblefork 9mo agoFor me the reason I might trust it to some degree is that they're Finns (and Finns don't usually hype things or bullshit), and it's not just one firm. They've got the motorcycle firm (Verge) in the video, they've got the some other guy, so if these guys just went along with bullshit claims they're kind of ruining the image of their company for no reason. I don't understand how it can be done though.
- rootusrootus 9mo ago> They've got the motorcycle firm (Verge) in the video FWIW, they are basically the same company. It is good that there were other cameos from independent customers, though, to help add some possible credibility.
- impossiblefork 9mo agoAh, yes.
- karmakurtisaani 9mo ago
- dust42 9mo agoSounds too good to be true. Seriously, if the CEO had any proof, he wouldn't need to hang out on CES. He would be showered with billions of $$$ and investors would fly in from all over the world. Instead he is selling motor cycles? Hard to believe. Why not have at least two different top universities having tested them?At least some insights into their production to verify the claims? And the motorcycle has a 33kWh battery for 600km? At what speed, 40kph? Good luck to them anyway...
- jacobgorm 9mo agoApparently Nordic Nano is a spin out from the University of Tampere, and the CEO of Donut Labs seems to have his own money. I happened to spend three weeks in Tampere by accident 15 years ago, and I have no reason to believe that people there don’t know what they are doing. It is where Nokia was originally founded, and where the first GSM phone call was made.
- dust42 9mo agoActually you are right. The world first super-intelligence AI was also created there, just 7 months ago. Also by Marko. This man is from another world. Watch yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8
- PoignardAzur 9mo agoI was extremely skeptical, until I saw that they're shipping in an actual consumer motorcycle. https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/ts-pro/ https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/ts-pro/ The webpage does mention the solid-state battery, and the starting price is 30'000$, so... holy shit?
- chrsw 9mo agoI was thinking “this is vapor or extremely expensive” . But maybe it’s somehow both.
- burnt-resistor 9mo agoMeanwhile, CATL's Naxtra sodium-ion batteries while only 175 Wh/kg are far safer. Lithium-ion NMC/Lipo and even LFP are gradually becoming like whale oil lamps and wax candles, inherently unsafe tech to be replaced gradually by safer and more durable tech.
- deflator 9mo agoVery cool even if its 25% sizzle on top of the true numbers This is why I lease EVs, not buy. My 2024 Mustang Mach E's pack is less than half that in density.
- asdgfaqwrg 9mo agoJif creamy peanut butter comes in at 190 kcal per 33 g serving [0], and 2000 kcal is 2.32 kW-h. Doing some good old fashioned dimensional analysis, the energy density of store-bought PB is 190 kcal | 2.32 kw | 1000 g ---------+-----------+------- = 6.68 kW-h/kg 33 g | 2000 kcal | kg So, Jif creamy is nearly 17 times as energy dense as Donut's battery. Even so, crunchy is better. --- [0] https://www.jif.com/products/creamy/creamy-peanut-butter https://www.jif.com/products/creamy/creamy-peanut-butter
- BobaFloutist 9mo agoRight, but a jar of peanut butter is more comparable to a gas can than to a solid-stste battery. I'm sure if you measured 100% of the kcal comprising the battery in a bomb calorimeter, the source of measurements of the kcal of food, you'd end up with a significantly higher density - but wholesale combustion is the paradigm we're trying to move past, not towards.
- rootusrootus 9mo agoCould you re-state those numbers but use delivered power instead of hypothetical? Assuming you can get the peanut butter to combust, I mean.
- stock_toaster 9mo ago_IF_ true, this seems like it would also be a big deal for both electrical grid infrastructure (load smoothing), and laptops.
- alex_duf 9mo agoFor grid storage the only two things that matter are cost and reliability. So it would be a big deal, but it's not the public for whom it would be the biggest deal. I think light aircraft doing short flights might be pretty interested by the technology. I remember 400 Wh being a threshold above which flights become feasible.
- OdisUlises 9mo agoI am confused... Why this so called Solid State Battery with 20.2 kWh can only achieve 350 km, while current battery that is used in "Charged Rimau" ( an electric motorcycle that is used in Indonesia) can achieve 200 km with only 5.4 kWh??? I expected more from a 20.2 kWh SSB, perhaps no less than 1500 km... Maybe someone here can explain why?
- OdisUlises 9mo agoOr maybe they should more emphasis about the weight of the battery. I mean, instead of saying "Our 20.2 kWh battery pack delivers 350 km of range...", maybe "Our 20.2 kWh battery pack only weighs 50.5 kg and delivers 350 km of range, which is very difficult to achieve with current usual lithium batteries, because it will weigh around 100 kg and consumes larger space..." will be more understandable.
- vvs1947 9mo agoСтартап заявляет о промышленной твердотельной батарее? Бред полный.
- pyaamb 9mo agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsi-TS8PX7U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsi-TS8PX7U
- oco101 9mo agoI mean, I have no idea what the point of this is, but I’d give it a 99.9% probability that this is some kind of joke, scam, publicity stunt, or social experiment. There’s just no way that anyone in the world could come up with such spectacular tech and nobody has ever heard about it. Let alone a 22-person company that not only claims to have developed the most advanced, production-ready battery in the world, but also plans to scale a battery factory to the size of Tesla’s Gigafactory within a year. But hey, maybe that’s possible, because the CEO is “a serial entrepreneur with a proven track record.” If you're curious here are all the details about the team behind this : https://www.donutlab.com/about-us/ https://www.donutlab.com/about-us/
- CyanLite2 9mo agoIt's a capacitor, not a battery.
- hackernews_7364 9mo agoThis is a fraud. The magnitude of their unsupported claims is a good indication but I suggest checking out their LinkedIn. They employ a handful of people none of them with a chemistry background, most of them don't have an engineering/science background at all. The final data point: here's the CEO of Donut Lab also announcing "The World's First True Artificial Superintelligence" in a company where supposedly he is the chairman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgJKjiDLV8 (for contrast here's Donut Lab's video announcement of the SSB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-aPS2AwMbc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-aPS2AwMbc).
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]