8 ms·

It would help if TV manufacturers would clearly document what these features do, and use consistent names that reflect that. It seems they want to make these s

It would help if TV manufacturers would clearly document what these features do, and use consistent names that reflect that. It seems they want to make these settings usable without specialist knowledge, but the end result of their opaque naming and vague descriptions is that anybody who actually cares about what they see and thinks they might benefit from some of the features has to either systematically try every possible combination of options or teach themselves video engineering and try to figure out for themselves what each one actually does. This isn't unique to TVs. It's amazing really how much effort a company will put into adding a feature to a product only to completely negate any value it might have by assuming any attempt at clearly documenting it, even if buried deep in a manual, will cause their customers' brains to explode.

hsbauauvhabzb 10mo ago
The purpose of the naming is generally to overwhelm consumers and drive long term repeat buys. You can’t remember if your tv has the fitzbuzz, but you’re damn sure this fancy new tv in the store looks a hell of a lot better than you’re current tv and there really pushing this fitzbuzz thing.
- omnicognate 10mo ago
  That doesn't preclude clearly documenting what the feature does somewhere in the manual or online. People who either don't care or don't have the mental capacity to understand it won't read it. People who care a lot, such as specialist reviewers or your competitors, will figure it out anyway. I don't see any downside to adding the documentation for the benefit of paying customers who want to make an informed choice about when to use the feature, even in this cynical world view.
  - nkrisc 10mo ago
    That costs money.
  - hsbauauvhabzb 10mo ago
    Why let a consumer educate themselves as easily as possible when it’s more profitable to deter that behaviour and keep you confused? Especially when some of the tech is entirely false (iirc about a decade ago, TVs were advertised as ‘360hz’ which was not related to the refresh rates). I’m with you personally, but the companies that sell TVs are not.
- shakna 10mo ago
  Cynically, I think its a bit, just a little, to do with how we handle manuals, today. It wasn't that long ago, that the manual spelled out everything in detail enough that a kid could understand, absorb, and decide he was going to dive into his own and end up in the industry. I wouldn't have broken or created nearly as much, without it. But, a few things challenged the norm. For many, many reasons, manuals became less about the specification and more about the functionality. Then they became even more simplified, because of the need to translate it into thirty different languages automatically. And even smaller, to discourage people from blaming the company rather than themselves, by never admitting anything in the manual. What I would do for a return to fault repair guides [0]. [0] https://archive.org/details/olivetti-linea-98-service-manual-1972 https://archive.org/details/olivetti-linea-98-service-manual...
  - keyringlight 10mo ago
    Another factor is the increased importance of software part of the product, and how that changes via updates that can make a manual outdated. Or at least a printed manual, so if they're doing updates to product launch it might not match what a customer gets straight out of the box or any later production runs where new firmware is included. It would be somewhat mitigated if there was an onus to keep online/downloadable manuals updated alongside the software. I know my motherboard BIOS no longer matches the manual, but even then most descriptions are so simple they do nothing more than list the options with no explanation.
    - pixl97 10mo ago
      Yep, old features can disappear, new features can be added, the whole product can even be enshittified. Updates are a mixed bag.
  - _factor 10mo ago
    Going a level deeper, more information can be gleaned for how closely modern technology mimics kids toys that don’t require manuals. A punch card machine certainly requires specs, and would not be confused with a toy. A server rack, same, but the manuals are pieced out and specific, with details being lost. You’ll notice anything with dangerous implications naturally wards off tampering near natively. Desktop and laptop computers depending on sharp edges and design language, whether they use a touch screen. Almost kids toys, manual now in collective common sense for most. Tablet, colorful case, basically a toy. Ask how many people using one can write bit transition diagrams for or/and, let alone xor. We’ve drifted far away from where we started. Part of me feels like the youth are losing their childhoods earlier and earlier as our technology becomes easier to use. Being cynical of course.
nevon 10mo ago
I'm sure part of it is so that marketing can say that their TV has new putz-tech smooth vibes AI 2.0, but honestly I also see this same thing happen with products aimed at technical people who would benefit from actually knowing what a particular feature or setting really is. Even in my own work on tools aimed at developers, non-technical stakeholders push really hard to dumb down and hide what things really are, believing that makes the tools easier to use, when really it just makes it more confusing for the users.
- consp 10mo ago
  I don't think you are the target audience of the dumbed down part but the people paying them for it. They don't need the detailed documentation on those thing, so why make it?
crabmusket 10mo ago
"Our users are morons who can barely read, let alone read a manual", meet "our users can definitely figure out how to use our app without a manual".
TeMPOraL 10mo ago
> It would help if TV manufacturers would clearly document what these features do, and use consistent names that reflect that. It would also help if there was a common, universal, perfect "reference TV" to aim for (or multiple such references for different use cases), with the job of the TV being to approximate this reference as closely as possible. Alas, much like documenting the features, this would turn TVs into commodities, which is what consumers want, but TV vendors very much don't.
- Avery3R 10mo ago
  "reference TVs" exist, they're what movies/tv shows are mastered on, e.g. https://flandersscientific.com/XMP551/ https://flandersscientific.com/XMP551/
  - Y_Y 10mo ago
    $21k for a 55-inch 4K is rough, but this thing must be super delicate because basic US shipping is $500. (Still cheaper than a Netflix subscription though.)
    - dylan604 10mo ago
      Reference monitor pricing has never been any where near something mere mortals could afford. The price you gave of $21k for 55” is more than 50% of the average of $1k+ per inch I’m used to seeing from Sony.
    - mjlee 10mo ago
      If you account for the wastage/insurance costs using standard freight carriers that seems reasonable to me as a proportion of value. I’m sure this is shipped insured, well packaged and on a pallet. Walmart might be able to resell a damaged/open box $2k TV at a discount, but I don’t think that’s so easy for speciality calibrated equipment.
  - 0_____0 10mo ago
    I wonder if there's a video equivalent to the Yamaha NS-10[1], a studio monitor (audio) that (simplifying) sounds bad enough that audio engineers reckon if they can make the mix sound good on them, they'll sound alright on just about anything. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_NS-10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_NS-10
pmontra 10mo ago
They will setup their TVs with whatever setting makes them sell better than the other TVs in the shop.
- vladvasiliu 10mo ago
  I don't particularly like that, but even so, it doesn't preclude having a "standard" or "no enhancement" option, even if it's not the default. On my TCL TV I can turn off "smart" image and a bunch of other crap, and there's a "standard" image mode. But I'm not convinced that's actually "as close to reference as the panel can get". One reason is that there is noticeable input lag when connected to a pc, whereas if I switch it to "pc", the lag is basically gone, but the image looks different. So I have no idea which is the "standard" one. Ironically, when I first turned it on, all the "smart" things were off.
  - Melatonic 10mo ago
    Sometimes PC mode reduces image quality (like lowering bit depth) at the expense of lower input lag
    - vladvasiliu 10mo ago
      Is there a way to verify this other than breaking out a colorimeter (which I happen to have)?
      - account42 9mo ago
        For bit depth issues, displaying a test pattern is probably the best test.
- thesuitonym 10mo ago
  I'm not certain this is true. TVs have become so ludicrously inexpensive that it seems the only criteria consumers shop for is bigger screen and lower price.
hodanli 10mo ago
worst is graphic settings for games. needs PhD to understand.
- ludicrousdispla 10mo ago
  They just need 3 settings for games, 1) make room hot, 2) make room warm, 3) maintain room temperature.
  - pitched 10mo ago
    I use that first setting to keep my basement living room warm in the winter.
robhlt 10mo ago
"Filmmaker mode" is the industry's attempt at this. On supported TVs it's just another picture mode (like vivid or standard), but it disables all the junk the other modes have enabled by default without wading though all the individual settings. I don't know how widely adopted it is though, but my LG OLED from 2020 has it.
- jbaiter 10mo ago
  Yup, it's great, at least for live action content. I've found that for Anime, a small amount of motion interpolation is absolutely needed on my OLED, otherwise the content has horrible judder.
  - kachapopopow 10mo ago
    I always found that weird, anime relies on motion blur for smoothness when panning / scrolling motion interpolation works as an upgraded version of that... until it starts to interpolate actual animation
- burnte 10mo ago
  The problem with filmmaker mode is I don't trust it more than other modes. It would take no effort at all for a TV maker to start fiddling whit "filmmaker mode" to boost colors or something to "get an edge", then everyone does it, and we're back to where we started. I just turn them off and leave it that way. Companies have already proven time and again they'll make changes we don't like just because they can, so it's important to take every opportunity to prevent them even getting a chance.
  - robhlt 10mo ago
    "Filmmaker mode" is a trademark of the UHD Alliance, so if TV makers want to deviate from the spec they can't call it "Filmmaker mode" anymore. There's a few different TV makers in the UHD Alliance so there's an incentive for the spec to not have wiggle room that one member could exploit to the determent of the others.
drob518 10mo ago
Agreed. And I’m not going to flip my TV’s mode every time I watch a new show. I need something that does a good job on average, where I can set it and forget it.
- fuzzy_lumpkins 10mo ago
  exactly. the only adjustment I need to be making is hdmi input and volume.
deep_merge 10mo ago
I just went through this learning curve with my new Sony Bravia 8 II. I also auditioned the LG G5. I calibrated both of them. It is not that much effort after some research on avsforum.com. I think this task would be fairly trivial for the hackernews crowd.
observationist 10mo ago
TV's are on their way to free, and are thoroughly enshittified. The consumer is the product, so compliance with consumer preferences is going to plummet. They don't care if you know what you want, you're going to get what they provide. They want a spy device in your house, recording and sending screenshots and audio clips to their servers, providing hooks into every piece of media you consume, allowing them a detailed profile of you and your household. By purchasing the device, you're agreeing to waiving any and all expectations of privacy. Your best bet is to get a projector, or spend thousands to get an actual dumb display. TVs are a lost cause - they've discovered how to exploit users and there's no going back.
KronisLV 10mo ago
The whole comment 100% matches my experience with any and every BIOS setup out there.

hsbauauvhabzb 10mo ago

The purpose of the naming is generally to overwhelm consumers and drive long term repeat buys. You can’t remember if your tv has the fitzbuzz, but you’re damn sure this fancy new tv in the store looks a hell of a lot better than you’re current tv and there really pushing this fitzbuzz thing.

omnicognate 10mo ago
That doesn't preclude clearly documenting what the feature does somewhere in the manual or online. People who either don't care or don't have the mental capacity to understand it won't read it. People who care a lot, such as specialist reviewers or your competitors, will figure it out anyway. I don't see any downside to adding the documentation for the benefit of paying customers who want to make an informed choice about when to use the feature, even in this cynical world view.
- nkrisc 10mo ago
  That costs money.
- hsbauauvhabzb 10mo ago
  Why let a consumer educate themselves as easily as possible when it’s more profitable to deter that behaviour and keep you confused? Especially when some of the tech is entirely false (iirc about a decade ago, TVs were advertised as ‘360hz’ which was not related to the refresh rates). I’m with you personally, but the companies that sell TVs are not.
shakna 10mo ago
Cynically, I think its a bit, just a little, to do with how we handle manuals, today. It wasn't that long ago, that the manual spelled out everything in detail enough that a kid could understand, absorb, and decide he was going to dive into his own and end up in the industry. I wouldn't have broken or created nearly as much, without it. But, a few things challenged the norm. For many, many reasons, manuals became less about the specification and more about the functionality. Then they became even more simplified, because of the need to translate it into thirty different languages automatically. And even smaller, to discourage people from blaming the company rather than themselves, by never admitting anything in the manual. What I would do for a return to fault repair guides [0]. [0] https://archive.org/details/olivetti-linea-98-service-manual-1972 https://archive.org/details/olivetti-linea-98-service-manual...
- keyringlight 10mo ago
  Another factor is the increased importance of software part of the product, and how that changes via updates that can make a manual outdated. Or at least a printed manual, so if they're doing updates to product launch it might not match what a customer gets straight out of the box or any later production runs where new firmware is included. It would be somewhat mitigated if there was an onus to keep online/downloadable manuals updated alongside the software. I know my motherboard BIOS no longer matches the manual, but even then most descriptions are so simple they do nothing more than list the options with no explanation.
  - pixl97 10mo ago
    Yep, old features can disappear, new features can be added, the whole product can even be enshittified. Updates are a mixed bag.
- _factor 10mo ago
  Going a level deeper, more information can be gleaned for how closely modern technology mimics kids toys that don’t require manuals. A punch card machine certainly requires specs, and would not be confused with a toy. A server rack, same, but the manuals are pieced out and specific, with details being lost. You’ll notice anything with dangerous implications naturally wards off tampering near natively. Desktop and laptop computers depending on sharp edges and design language, whether they use a touch screen. Almost kids toys, manual now in collective common sense for most. Tablet, colorful case, basically a toy. Ask how many people using one can write bit transition diagrams for or/and, let alone xor. We’ve drifted far away from where we started. Part of me feels like the youth are losing their childhoods earlier and earlier as our technology becomes easier to use. Being cynical of course.

nevon 10mo ago

I'm sure part of it is so that marketing can say that their TV has new putz-tech smooth vibes AI 2.0, but honestly I also see this same thing happen with products aimed at technical people who would benefit from actually knowing what a particular feature or setting really is. Even in my own work on tools aimed at developers, non-technical stakeholders push really hard to dumb down and hide what things really are, believing that makes the tools easier to use, when really it just makes it more confusing for the users.

consp 10mo ago
I don't think you are the target audience of the dumbed down part but the people paying them for it. They don't need the detailed documentation on those thing, so why make it?

crabmusket 10mo ago

"Our users are morons who can barely read, let alone read a manual", meet "our users can definitely figure out how to use our app without a manual".

TeMPOraL 10mo ago

> It would help if TV manufacturers would clearly document what these features do, and use consistent names that reflect that. It would also help if there was a common, universal, perfect "reference TV" to aim for (or multiple such references for different use cases), with the job of the TV being to approximate this reference as closely as possible. Alas, much like documenting the features, this would turn TVs into commodities, which is what consumers want, but TV vendors very much don't.

Avery3R 10mo ago
"reference TVs" exist, they're what movies/tv shows are mastered on, e.g. https://flandersscientific.com/XMP551/ https://flandersscientific.com/XMP551/
- Y_Y 10mo ago
  $21k for a 55-inch 4K is rough, but this thing must be super delicate because basic US shipping is $500. (Still cheaper than a Netflix subscription though.)
  - dylan604 10mo ago
    Reference monitor pricing has never been any where near something mere mortals could afford. The price you gave of $21k for 55” is more than 50% of the average of $1k+ per inch I’m used to seeing from Sony.
  - mjlee 10mo ago
    If you account for the wastage/insurance costs using standard freight carriers that seems reasonable to me as a proportion of value. I’m sure this is shipped insured, well packaged and on a pallet. Walmart might be able to resell a damaged/open box $2k TV at a discount, but I don’t think that’s so easy for speciality calibrated equipment.
- 0_____0 10mo ago
  I wonder if there's a video equivalent to the Yamaha NS-10[1], a studio monitor (audio) that (simplifying) sounds bad enough that audio engineers reckon if they can make the mix sound good on them, they'll sound alright on just about anything. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_NS-10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_NS-10

pmontra 10mo ago

They will setup their TVs with whatever setting makes them sell better than the other TVs in the shop.

vladvasiliu 10mo ago
I don't particularly like that, but even so, it doesn't preclude having a "standard" or "no enhancement" option, even if it's not the default. On my TCL TV I can turn off "smart" image and a bunch of other crap, and there's a "standard" image mode. But I'm not convinced that's actually "as close to reference as the panel can get". One reason is that there is noticeable input lag when connected to a pc, whereas if I switch it to "pc", the lag is basically gone, but the image looks different. So I have no idea which is the "standard" one. Ironically, when I first turned it on, all the "smart" things were off.
- Melatonic 10mo ago
  Sometimes PC mode reduces image quality (like lowering bit depth) at the expense of lower input lag
  - vladvasiliu 10mo ago
    Is there a way to verify this other than breaking out a colorimeter (which I happen to have)?
    - account42 9mo ago
      For bit depth issues, displaying a test pattern is probably the best test.
thesuitonym 10mo ago
I'm not certain this is true. TVs have become so ludicrously inexpensive that it seems the only criteria consumers shop for is bigger screen and lower price.

hodanli 10mo ago

worst is graphic settings for games. needs PhD to understand.

ludicrousdispla 10mo ago
They just need 3 settings for games, 1) make room hot, 2) make room warm, 3) maintain room temperature.
- pitched 10mo ago
  I use that first setting to keep my basement living room warm in the winter.

robhlt 10mo ago

"Filmmaker mode" is the industry's attempt at this. On supported TVs it's just another picture mode (like vivid or standard), but it disables all the junk the other modes have enabled by default without wading though all the individual settings. I don't know how widely adopted it is though, but my LG OLED from 2020 has it.

jbaiter 10mo ago
Yup, it's great, at least for live action content. I've found that for Anime, a small amount of motion interpolation is absolutely needed on my OLED, otherwise the content has horrible judder.
- kachapopopow 10mo ago
  I always found that weird, anime relies on motion blur for smoothness when panning / scrolling motion interpolation works as an upgraded version of that... until it starts to interpolate actual animation
burnte 10mo ago
The problem with filmmaker mode is I don't trust it more than other modes. It would take no effort at all for a TV maker to start fiddling whit "filmmaker mode" to boost colors or something to "get an edge", then everyone does it, and we're back to where we started. I just turn them off and leave it that way. Companies have already proven time and again they'll make changes we don't like just because they can, so it's important to take every opportunity to prevent them even getting a chance.
- robhlt 10mo ago
  "Filmmaker mode" is a trademark of the UHD Alliance, so if TV makers want to deviate from the spec they can't call it "Filmmaker mode" anymore. There's a few different TV makers in the UHD Alliance so there's an incentive for the spec to not have wiggle room that one member could exploit to the determent of the others.

drob518 10mo ago

Agreed. And I’m not going to flip my TV’s mode every time I watch a new show. I need something that does a good job on average, where I can set it and forget it.

fuzzy_lumpkins 10mo ago
exactly. the only adjustment I need to be making is hdmi input and volume.

deep_merge 10mo ago

I just went through this learning curve with my new Sony Bravia 8 II. I also auditioned the LG G5. I calibrated both of them. It is not that much effort after some research on avsforum.com. I think this task would be fairly trivial for the hackernews crowd.

observationist 10mo ago

TV's are on their way to free, and are thoroughly enshittified. The consumer is the product, so compliance with consumer preferences is going to plummet. They don't care if you know what you want, you're going to get what they provide. They want a spy device in your house, recording and sending screenshots and audio clips to their servers, providing hooks into every piece of media you consume, allowing them a detailed profile of you and your household. By purchasing the device, you're agreeing to waiving any and all expectations of privacy. Your best bet is to get a projector, or spend thousands to get an actual dumb display. TVs are a lost cause - they've discovered how to exploit users and there's no going back.

KronisLV 10mo ago

The whole comment 100% matches my experience with any and every BIOS setup out there.