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I'm deeply skeptical of CEOs being "built different" like some people are arguing here. If Elon can be CEO of three companies and the founder of a couple more w
by Sparkle-san 10mo ago
I'm deeply skeptical of CEOs being "built different" like some people are arguing here. If Elon can be CEO of three companies and the founder of a couple more while also finding time to tweet 50+ times a day, have a failed and embarrassing stint in trying to optimize the federal government, and get K-holed at parties then the demands of the job can't be that rigorous.
If anything, I would argue that the strategic decisions actually can be automated/performed via broader consensus. With that handled, all that's left is the cartel that CEOs have invented to justify their exhorbant pay packages.
- boredatoms 10mo agoI think it just means he’s not the real CEO in any of them and has to have someone below actually running things
- Sparkle-san 10mo agoI mean, you're not wrong. The COO, Gwynne Shotwell, at SpaceX, is known to handle a lot of the day to day stuff, and I feel that further reinforces the point. If she can handle all of that in her role as COO then what's the point of a CEO?
- mc32 10mo agoIn many companies, probably being the main override. Trust but verify.
- prawn 10mo agoMaybe a bit like an ultimate funnel directing the broader effort of the company. That, plus brand/figurehead.
- pinkmuffinere 10mo agoHot take: Musk is a great CEO. He's a horrible person, but I feel it's undeniable that his weight behind a project greatly increases the chance of interesting and profitable things happening (despite the over-optimistic claims and missed deadlines). I think he achieves this in large part _because_ he is an asshole, tweeting all the time to drum up publicity, being notorious for doing K, being too optimistic about what can be achieved, etc. I think somebody can be a good CEO without being such a jerk, it's just that Musk doesn't take the good-person strategy. And the bad-person strategy works well for him. A CEO's job is (roughly) to maximize a company's valuation. It is not to run the company themselves, not to be nice, not to improve the world. I'm not claiming this is what _should_ be, just how it _is_. By this metric, I think Musk has done really well in his role. Edit: Tangentially related -- at the end of the musical "Hadestown", the cast raise their glasses to the audience and toast "to the world we dream about, and the one we live in today." I think about that a lot. It's so beautiful, helps enforce some realism on me, and makes me think about what I want to change with my life.
- viraptor 10mo ago> being too optimistic about what can be achieved It's called "lying to customers and investors". > And the bad-person strategy works well for him. Worked. Tesla is not doing that well recently. Others are a bit better.
- satvikpendem 10mo agoThe first part works because otherwise reusable rockets wouldn't have been invented (or maybe they'd have been invented 20 years later). It's the same as Steve Jobs, the Android guys were still making prototypes with keyboards until they saw the all screen interface of the iPhone. Sometimes it requires a single individual pushing their will through an organization to get things done, and sometimes that requires lying.
- ceejayoz 10mo ago> The first part works because otherwise reusable rockets wouldn't have been invented… Maybe, maybe not. We often see technology reach a threshold that allows for sudden progress, like Newton and Leibniz both coming up with calculus at around the same time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz%E2%80%93Newton_calculus_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz%E2%80%93Newton_calculu...), or Darwin rushing to publish On The Origin of Species because someone else had figured out the same thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Russel_Wallace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Russel_Wallace). SpaceX benefited immensely from massive improvements in computing power, sensors, etc.
- satvikpendem 10mo agoIt did, and it needed a direction to be pushed towards. Are you familiar with the great man theory of history [0]? It is no different here (well, historians these days use a blend of great man theory and historical materialism as you're stating in your example, as no one theory explains the majority of historical changes). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory
- Alupis 10mo agoA CEO will set the grand vision, long term goals, and direction for the company - typically approved by the board (which the CEO has to convince). The COO literally operates the company, while the CEO will nudge them in certain directions to accomplish broader goals.
- quintushoratius 10mo ago> A CEO will set the grand vision, long term goals, and direction for the company I thought determining vision/goals/direction was the responsibility of the board. The Chief Executive Officer is supposed to execute the board's wishes.
- Alupis 10mo agoA board is often a consulting group. They're there to see the 30,000ft view of what's going on, areas that need focus, and suggest grand strategy/guidance. A board is usually comprised of executives from other companies. The CEO is usually the one selling the board on their vision and execution. The board acts like guard rails for that vision.
- kccqzy 10mo agoThat someone actually running things is usually called COO, or Chief Operating Officer. That person operates the company.
- fuzztester 10mo ago>That person operates the company. s/operates/operates on/ So they are a surgeon? Wouldn't be surprised at the damage they cause, conidering the business results of so many companies.
- satvikpendem 10mo agoWhat are you saying? Seems like you created your own strawman with that sed phrase.
- fuzztester 10mo agosometimes i don't know what i am saying. do you, always?
- overfeed 10mo ago> With that handled, all that's left is the cartel that CEOs have invented to justify their exhorbant pay packages. CEO compensation is determined by board committees mostly made up of other CxOs. They write letters to each other's shareholders about how valuable CEOs are to build up the edifice. I wish my compensation were determined by fellow engineers who "truly know my worth". I'd pay it forward if I were on a committee determining colleague's pay packets.
- pan69 10mo agoWorks kinda like "industry awards" where a bunch of companies give awards to each other.
- HaZeust 10mo agoWell, be the change you want to see. CEOs know that part of the justification of their existence relies on solidarity between each other - and that they can collectively bargain with institutions to remind of that justification.
- the_real_cher 10mo agoThe MBA curriculum is stunningly ridiculously easy. The entire point of an MBA is networking for executive roles.
- whstl 10mo agoFunny story: I'm friends with a political scientist that sustained themselves through college by writing thesis papers for MBA students. They would research, then buy a two liter energy drink bottle and write it all in one go over the weekend.
- tengwar2 10mo agoIt is easy, yes. About the equivalent of two or three A levels for anyone in the UK. However the point is not networking, but understanding large areas of business operation that you don't already know. For people like us, that's generally things like strategy, finance, marketing (which isn't the same thing as advertising), organisational behaviour (effectively applied sociology), HR (the weakest area of the course I took). It's not particularly useful for networking, since the people you meet are at your own level.
- the_real_cher 10mo ago> understanding large areas of business operation that you don't already know Library card, google search, LLM, Annas archive, not even joking. I've seen the curriculum, its the kind of stuff you read a book about on a weekend. > not particularly useful for networking, since the people you meet are at your own level. I think you may have missed the point of the MBA.
- tengwar2 10mo agoA library card etc. are useful, but a very long way from the usefulness of a planned and taught course. And no, I haven't missed the point - you most certainly have. There are useful methods of networking, and they are based on breadth (how many people you meet), depth (how specific your discussions can be) and length of engagement. People from completely different industries whom you meet over coffee in a group exercise are not that, and would not justify the cost of the course. What does justify it is what you learn.
- decremental 10mo ago[dead]
- reactordev 10mo agoWhat makes CEOs different is they have a wild idea, with enough naivety and passion to pursue it, and hopefully the partners that will get them there. The secret sauce is execution. Hired CEOs are there to execute a board vision. Made CEOs are there to execute their vision.
- SturgeonsLaw 10mo agoI get some wild ideas out of LLMs too, is that all CEOs are bringing to the table?
- reactordev 10mo agolol obviously no. Their level of expertise, access, relationships, etc all scale with the business. If it’s big, you need someone well connected who can mange an organization of that size. IANAE but I would imagine having access to top schools would be a big factor as well.
- satvikpendem 10mo agoCan LLMs execute on their ideas?
- text0404 10mo agoYes, tool calling.
- satvikpendem 10mo agoDepends what the tool to be called is, not everything has an API, especially anything that relates to other humans.
- gos9 10mo agoIf you can figure out a way to collect and parse information needed to make executive decisions via LLM+tool calls, you would be a billionaire overnight. There’s a reason that it takes a human in these roles and people w/ 0 organizational/executive experience fail to understand just how complex they are.
- coolestguy 10mo agoIf it's so easy, why haven't you done it?
- ceejayoz 10mo agoBecause luck plays a very significant role.
- viraptor 10mo agoThat and having enough millions in the first place to meet with the right people and get/buy a position helps.
- ceejayoz 10mo agoAs the Rick & Morty quote goes, "that just sounds like luck with extra steps".
- Natfan 10mo ago[flagged]
- guywithahat 10mo agoTo Elon's credit he didn't start out with millions
- ceejayoz 10mo agoJust a well off white politician as a father during South African apartheid.
- SideburnsOfDoom 10mo agoIn Errol Musk's political career, he was a city councillor and member of an opposition party. So, while true, this is minor league. His business ventures appear to be more relevant to his wealth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Errol_Musk#Career https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Errol_Musk#Career
- mbesto 10mo ago> If Elon can be CEO of three companies and the founder of a couple more while also finding time to tweet 50+ times a day, have a failed and embarrassing stint in trying to optimize the federal government, and get K-holed at parties then the demands of the job can't be that rigorous. Except, Elon has been largely successful at being the "CEO" of these companies because he attracts talent to them. So...either: (1) Businesses still will require human talent and if so, I don't see how an AI bot will replace a CEO who is necessary to attract human talent. OR (2) Businesses don't require any human talent beneath the CEO and thus a CEO is still necessary, or at least some type of "orchestrator" to direct the AI bots beneath them.
- titzer 10mo agoFrom contact with former SpaceX and Tesla engineers, these companies attract talent in spite of the CEO.
- darth_avocado 10mo agoKeep in mind, SpaceX and Tesla are both in industries where people don’t actually have that many other options. If you really want to see what talent Elon is able to attract, you need to look at his other companies like X.
- guywithahat 10mo agoMy experience would lead me to disagree, Elon companies tend to be highly competitive to apply for, and working for one is still quite prestigious among people hiring. If young engineer support means anything their merch is still quite popular among college engineering students
- mbesto 10mo agoThat might be true, but I suspect my point is rather that Elon attracted the initial talent (likely through compensation) and thats what attracts the next level. In the wise words of my Olympian swimmer friend "The only way I could become an Olympic swimmer was by training next to people faster than me".
- lijok 10mo ago> then the demands of the job can't be that rigorous. Maybe he’s just that good at what he does?
- duxup 10mo agoI suspect Elon's value proposition now isn't really anything he does, it's the fear for stockholders that their companies will be evaluated like any other company and it will tank the stock if Elon isn't around. Sort of a stock suicide pact ...
- aubanel 10mo agoI'd advise you take a look at some of Musk's companies: - Tesla is the top seller of EVs in the US, beating century-old companies. - SpaceX has left public institutions like NASA and ESA in the dust despite their vastly bigger budgets - Although it joined late, xAI is now firmly in the top 4 of AI companies worldwide (OpenAI, Anthropic, Google, xAI) What's the common element between these successes?
- beautiful_zhixu 10mo agoThe common element is Master Elon. Master Elon finds the talent, or perhaps the talent finds Master Elon. And then the talent runs a part of the show. Master Elon understands space is a big unifying hope. Is that not obvious to everybody? And then Master made it happen! Master Elon may be stupid, a dog may be smart. For a dog knows how to make several other Masters happy, is that not a vast form of intelligence? Thank you Master Aubanel for your wise words!
- imtringued 10mo agoThat Elon Musk let the competent people do their job and didn't meddle too much? Did you know that Cybertruck, Starship and Twitter are the projects where Musk has let his competence "shine" the most?
- y0eswddl 10mo agoIt's been long-since established that the only reason early Musk companies survived was employees learning how to manage up and manipulate Musk into doing the right things early on...
- almostgotcaught 10mo ago
- qq66 10mo agoElon doesn't bring huge amounts of time to his companies, he brings some sort of skill which I don't know how to characterize but empirically must exist given the level of repeatable success he's had. If there was a job description to "throw this football 50 yards into a trash can, a couple of times per week" I wouldn't be able to do the job at all, but an NFL quarterback might be able to do the job for 5 different companies while also Tweeting 50 times a day.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 10mo agoMaybe he's a brand. The skill is that investors will put money into a company that has his name on it, and companies with money succeed.
- qq66 10mo agoNo, it's clearly much more than that. He was able to get Grok to a frontier-level LLM while Apple and Microsoft, with far more money to throw at the problem, and more existentially threatened by not succeeding, have not.
- jackvalentine 10mo agoHave Microsoft and Apple even tried? I haven’t seen any evidence that it’s their goal.
- kranke155 10mo agoMicrosoft didn’t but Apple did. So did Meta.
- franktankbank 10mo agoIs there any secret sauce behind LLM other than big money? I'm under the impression that its a known recipe at its core and for many of the enhancements around it.
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- tarsinge 10mo agoA CEO can be valuable while still doing nothing with a simple explanation: they are cult figures whose purpose is to increase the stock value. This is obvious in the case of a drug addict like Elon like you describe, but others are increasingly copying the playbook.
- nameknow_com 10mo agoI want to see this experiment run, lol
- nameknow_com 10mo agoif it's so easy, why is spacex 90% of earth launch volume? lol something is different at elon's companies. My guess is he has autism superpowers of not caring about your feelings and just operating on the facts. Nothing done for show. I'm roughly paraphrasing Andrej https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfFA9KCsKZ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfFA9KCsKZ8
- BobbyTables2 10mo agoThere is already a consensus based group too - the Board of Directors! (Of course, them serving on boards for multiple companies is another issue)