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JetBlue flight averts mid-air collision with US Air Force jet
https://archive.md/8dT86 https://archive.md/8dT86
- ChrisArchitect 10mo ago[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46269601 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46269601
- deepsun 10mo ago> Caribbean nation of Curacao It's the first time I hear someone calls Curaçao a "nation". It's just the normal Dutch island, not even some special status territory. Yes, it's in Carribean, but why do they omit "Dutch" and call it a "Carribean nation"?
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- IncreasePosts 10mo agoCuracao has been a country that is part of the kingdom of the Netherlands since 2010.
- GuinansEyebrows 10mo agotechnically, it's a country within the Kingdom :)
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- zamadatix 10mo agoI find words in the same category as "country", "nation", "state", etc are increasingly used interchangeably. Largely because they tend to be far more specific than people mean to be... but also because generic terms like "polity" never caught on in the mainstream. A similar thing is how "nation-states" would appear to be the only type of place worth worrying about highly organized attacks from in infosec, until you ask them to define what they consider a nation-state. That said, I don't think it's accurate to paint Curaçao as just another normal Dutch island the same as any other. It's really a constituent country that's part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, just not a sovereign state or a nation.
- mr_toad 10mo agoLots of small islands have similar status, for example The Cayman Islands, Bermuda & Puerto Rico.
- adastra22 10mo agoA nation-state is a state whose borders and (originally) citizenship are largely defined by a singular nationality. Israel and Japan, for example. Belgium and Canada are not nation states: they are split into French and Flemish, and Anglo and French nationalities, respectively. It is a 19th century term that rarely applies these days, but still sees some residual usage.
- zamadatix 10mo agoTo complete the other half of the story for those not familiar: most all infosec references to "nation-state attack" instead use it to mean "government backed attack" (regardless if a nation-state is involved in the context).
- 1718627440 10mo agoWhat if they use it to mean entities that are both states and nations, as opposed to the states, that some nations are composed of.
- cwillu 10mo agoAnglo, French _and Aboriginal_ nationalities. That's not a minor detail to exclude.
- adastra22 10mo agoIn the concept of a “nation-state”, it is accurate. 20% of Israel’s population is non-Jewish, but it is still accurately described as a Jewish nation. I’m not defending the morality of this classification scheme, just trying by to be accurate. It dates to the 19th century and is not with the times today, which is why I generally prefer to avoid the term myself.
- behnamoh 10mo agothe bigger question is: what business does the Netherlands have all the way across the ocean in an island? Who gave them the "right" to own it?
- deepsun 10mo agoWhat do you mean "all the way across the ocean". From where? The distance from Curaçao to the Dutch people is exactly zero. What "right" are you talking about, is there an agency where we file a claim, and it issues us "rights"? All people from all nations, tribes and states came from somewhere, sometimes even replacing the local population. Sometimes peacefully, like Anglo-Saxons pushed out local Britons in England, sometimes violently, like Normans invaded and conquered England. Or like the rich and diverse American Indian history -- tribes came and went, sometimes replaced, pushed out, conquered or assimilated with previous peoples who lived there. Please define "right".
- behnamoh 10mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- adastra22 10mo agoHow far is Hawaii from the USA?
- WheatMillington 10mo agoOK so now do America and Hawaii or Puerto Rico.
- IAmBroom 10mo ago> Sometimes peacefully, like Anglo-Saxons pushed out local Britons in England The Battle of Chester has entered the chat. No one ever "peacefully" pushes anyone else out of their homes.
- wkat4242 10mo agoIt's not part of the country the Netherlands anymore. They voted to leave. They're still in the kingdom which means they're not completely on their own but nation is a good word.
- maxboone 10mo agoAfter the near miss from JetBlue, there was another near miss with a business jet yesterday morning: https://nos.nl/l/2594640 https://nos.nl/l/2594640 ATC audio: https://youtu.be/Hto6aTt-X7A?si=2J-NnaXIcOnnWIqS https://youtu.be/Hto6aTt-X7A?si=2J-NnaXIcOnnWIqS
- deathanatos 10mo ago& the ATC audio on the same channel, but for the flight in TFA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUcs1LCjhcs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUcs1LCjhcs
- godelski 10mo ago1) WTF is with the ATC in both of those 2) Why aren't the military craft listening to the local flight channel? Aren't you supposed to monitor local traffic? Especially when flying without a transponder? It's not like you can't listen to multiple channels at the same time!
- LightBug1 10mo ago[flagged]
- squigz 10mo agoWhat's wrong with the ATC in those videos?
- phil21 10mo agoFor the business jet one, ATC vectored the private jet directly into the crossing traffic. Clearly a giant mistake.
- squigz 10mo agoThat video has a limited and likely-not-accurate perspective of the planes. I'm not sure we can say it's "clearly" anything from that. Also, ATC said they were making irregular turns.
- pradmatic 10mo agoWhy was the Air Force plane’s transponder turned off? This is negligence that almost killed a plane full of people and endangered a national security operation. Outrageous.
- ceejayoz 10mo agoBecause it’s flying near Venezuela, who we’re currently fucking with militarily.
- bdangubic 10mo agowe wouldn’t be doing that, we voted for President that will end all the wars, not start new ones
- Obscurity4340 10mo agoThank you for buying my bridge, no refunds asked and zero money back down
- foota 10mo agoIf you thought you were, you were tricked.
- ceejayoz 10mo agoI think your sarcasm detector needs calibrating.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- antonymoose 10mo agoNicolas, Uday, and Qusay Maduro have 48 hours to leave Venezuela. Until then, we have not launched a special military operation.
- DLA 10mo agoNot sure I’d call crossing traffic “within a few miles” a near-miss. Even at full cruising speed of 500-600MPH (less because the JetBlue was still on a climb) the civilian aircraft would cover a mile in 6-7 seconds, so we are talking 18 to 24 seconds to close 3-4 miles. Also, it a common for military aircraft to not have a transponder on, especially in the vicinity of threats. Without a transponder the civilian aircraft TCAS/ACAS would not warn about traffic. Not sure how far off the coast of Venezuela this occurred, but there are some very real SAM threats the Air Force aircraft would need to worry about. (edited typos)
- snypher 10mo agoWell common enroute separation is 5NM so in aviation, it's close. Is there a NOTAM for military traffic on this area?
- DLA 10mo agoThe FAA did warn about military ops in the area. Good question; not sure they issued a NOTAM.
- embedding-shape 10mo ago> Not sure how far off the coast of Venezuela this occurred 64km off the coast of Venezuela. > Also, it a common for military aircraft to not have a transponder on Is it actually common for military aircrafts with transponders off to mix and match with public traffic in activate flight regions? One would think if there is threats somewhere, they'd first mark the region as restricted, so no public airplanes go there in the first place, then they can fly without the transponders.
- DLA 10mo agoThreats are not to civilian aircraft. If conflict occurs areas would become restricted.
- deathanatos 10mo agoIf the positioning [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUcs1LCjhcs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUcs1LCjhcs) is at all close to accurate, that looks closer to 300km, with the entirety of Aruba between them & the closest point in Venezuela. (Or all of Curaçao, but I think that line is longer.) (TFA does say 64 km, though.) Edit: I'm not sure about 64 km. The 64km is for the Curaçao departing flight, but Curaçao's airport is itself 80 km from Venezuela, and they headed north pretty immediately? I.e., … they would have never been < 80 km…?
- mg794613 10mo agoBeing allies really doesn't mean anything anymore, does it? I really wonder how long it will take to rebuild all these burned bridges.
- loeg 10mo agoWhat does allies have to do with this situation? Both aircraft involved were American.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- arianvanp 10mo agoHappened in Dutch Caribbean controlled Airspace
- nabakin 10mo agoTIL Europe still has some presence in the Americas. Thought all of that was gone with the Monroe Doctrine
- brnt 10mo agoYou may find this interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_territories_of_members_of_the_European_Economic_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_territories_of_members...
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- phantasmish 10mo agoYeah, you can visit the EU by… sailing a ways Northeast(ish) from Maine, until you’re just south of (a part of) Canada. And by going to the Caribbean. And South America. Mostly France and the Netherlands.
- coldtea 10mo agoNothing beats a JetBlue holiday
- BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 10mo agoThe US could issue a notice of an Alert Area where military operations are in progress AND could coordinate with Dutch airspace authorities. US AWACS has the capability to identify civilian aircraft and route military traffic well clear of civil traffic.
- mlacks 10mo agoNotice was put out NOV https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/us_restrictions/venezuela/KICZ-Advisory-NOTAM-A0012-25.pdf https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/us_restrictions...
- AniseAbyss 10mo ago[dead]
- Animats 10mo agoA sizable chunk of the world is currently considered hazardous for commercial aviation.[1] Ops.group maintains a quick reference map. It's bad. [1] https://safeairspace.net/ https://safeairspace.net/
- notachatbot123 10mo agoThat map projection is the worst choice possible. It makes Russia appear much larger in relation to e. g. Africa than it really is.
- Animats 10mo ago> That map projection is the worst choice possible. For navigation, the Mercator projection is useful, because a straight line on the chart is where you go with a constant bearing. Aerial navigation is waypoint/bearing/waypoint/bearing. So most aviation maps are Mercator.
- isoprophlex 10mo agoYeah that's not for TNCF (curacao) but venezuela (SVZM) airspace. So that's approximately zero excuse.
- dehrmann 10mo agoIn other news, the National Defense Authorization Act working its way through congress is trying to loosen restrictions around DCA that were put in place after a military helicopter collided with a passenger jet.
- jMyles 10mo agoCall me crazy, but I think any time, any where, without any exceptions whatsoever, someone wants to fly a multi-ton chunk of metal, they need to broadcast telemetry in a cleartext, open standard. I understand that this might be disruptive to people who want to drop explosives on other people, and while this disruption is a fantastic benefit, it's only a side-effect.
- metaphor 10mo agoTo be sure, the relevant statutory regulation[1] didn't always read the way how it does. [1] https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-91/subpart-C/section-91.225 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F...
- jMyles 10mo agoYeah, exactly. I've been watching adsb activity over my house for years, and in the past few weeks, for the first time, I have activity (helicopter and jet) in my area that it not visible. It's unnerving, and unbecoming of an egalitarian society.
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- yearolinuxdsktp 10mo agoSo never fly in or out of DCA, and avoid anywhere near Venezuela.
- bamboozled 10mo agoWhy is that?
- kqr 10mo agoThis near miss plus that helicopter thing, I assume: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Potomac_River_mid-air_collision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Potomac_River_mid-air_col...
- trymas 10mo agoDelivered directly to your doorstep from the government of “no new wars”, guided by “peace president”.
- YeahThisIsMe 10mo agoHey, come on, you don't win a FIFA Peace Prize unless you absolutely deserve one.
- seydor 10mo agoNothing says "no wars" than naming a minister of War
- isoprophlex 10mo agoWe have the best mid-air collisions. Noone does it better, or so people tell me. We don't do sleepy silent disappearances over the Bermuda Triangle, that's SAD!! We blow em up, BIGLY, in someone else's airspace. A great PRESIDENT knows how to WIN at mid-air collisions. Thank you for your attention to this matter.
- preisschild 10mo agoNah. That place is well deserved by Russia. But they have missile - plane collisions :)
- Nextgrid 10mo agoThe US is trying to one-up Russia on that by using another plane as the missile.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- ktallett 10mo ago[flagged]
- ulfw 10mo agoOh yes as if the Great US of A didn't shoot down passenger jets https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/july-3/u-s-warship-downs-iranian-passenger-jet https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/july-3/u-s-warsh...
- derelicta 10mo agoNah you don't understand. When Americans shoot down a plane, it's called "Liberation". You see, by doing so they liberate our souls from this fallen World, which is good!
- DocTomoe 10mo agoThe major difference being that the US crew got medals for 'meritorious service', including a Navy Commendation Medal and a Legion of Merit. Russia is not quite that ballsy over accidentally butchering civilians.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- saubeidl 10mo agoIsn't this technically an act of war against the Netherlands?
- cindyllm 10mo ago[dead]
- ceejayoz 10mo agoAnything can be an act of war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Jenkins%27_Ear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Jenkins%27_Ear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War_(1859) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War_(1859) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War Or we just make them up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Powell%27s_presentation_to_the_United_Nations_Security_Council https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Powell%27s_presentation_... No, the Netherlands won't consider this to be anything of the sort.
- chinathrow 10mo ago> The Air Force jet then entered Venezuelan airspace, the JetBlue pilot said. "We almost had a mid-air collision up here." They simply should stay the fuck away from that airspace then. And by that I don't mean JetBlue.
- IAmBroom 10mo ago"Should" is a cute word. It does a lot of work, and accomplishes nothing. "We should cure cancer." "I should exercise." "Nations should not torture people."
- _cenw 10mo agoI always get the impression that whenever military/police have the option to turn off ADS-B, they do. Not just in the US or by US forces. Not just on sensitive flights. I don't think the toggle ever gets used.
- bamboozled 10mo agoI'm no expert but I'd imagine they would mostly do this in areas where commercials airliners aren't?
- _cenw 10mo agoNot really. I live next to an airport with both a civilian and military presence (and an alternate for a NATO airbase). The number of military/police flights that I can only see on MLAT is pretty worrying. I don't think BPol has ever turned their "stealth" switch off.
- bamboozled 10mo agoReally freaks me out.
- flipbrad 10mo agoThis perhaps isn't the lind of lethality the DoD has in mind.
- Havoc 10mo agoUS military planes & helis sure seem to be doing a lot of endangering people lately...and not the right ones
- brandensilva 10mo agoAmazing how bad this has gotten under this administration. They have turned the air into a free for all match.