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Ford can't find mechanics for $120K: It takes math to learn a trade

52 points by mhb 11mo ago

t-writescode 11mo ago
Do what we used to do. Pay them more. 120k is like 60k in mid 1990s money. And, pay for their education. Invest in local colleges to help guide curriculum in what you need. That’s what defense contractors and mega corps do / have done. Stop complaining and be stewards of your community. Like Henry Ford argued back in the day, “I want my employees to be able to buy a Ford”. Invest and the people will invest back.
- paulpauper 11mo ago
  Why not pay them 300k/year? 500k? It has to be viable or worthwhile for both parties
  - mapontosevenths 11mo ago
    > Why not pay them 300k/year? 500k? That's a great idea! We could take the difference from the CEO's pay.
    - vitaflo 11mo ago
      Congrats you just bought yourself 10 mechanics.
      - shtzvhdx 11mo ago
        The SEC requires companies to disclose the executive pay to median salary. It 2023 it was 312:1. Ok, but $500 000/year isnt a median salary. But Ford's CEO is $26.4 million, so 53:1. Gather up the rest of the C-suit at Ford and you got a couple hundred mechanics. Do that to Stellantis and GM and you're at about 500 mechanics. 10 per state is not an insignificant number of high paid mechanics. Add Boeing, Raytheon, Lockheed, GE, and all the other once great industrial American jewels run by idiots and you have financed the training of a large portion of the American workforce.
        xp84 11mo ago
        Except, now those companies have no leadership at all so just tell the workers to just do whatever seems like a good idea and hope for the best? Why haven't we seen a bunch of successful companies without any management if management is so useless/harmful? Just ICs self-organizing to run the whole business. Without any execs to pay they'd have a cost advantage running that way.
        mapontosevenths 11mo ago
        Why would they have no leadership at all? I suspect I can find a few willing to do it for a few paltry million, or maybe less.
        JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
        > suspect I can find a few willing to do it for a few paltry million Run an automotive giant? We're still in the thread where the argument for acquiring talent is to pay more, right?
        orwin 11mo ago
        'talent'. Talent here is very often having friends on the board, through common investments and co-ownership of those private jet/ luxury yacht/luxury hostel rentals that operates 'at a loss' (you only pay consumption taxes on your direct spending, if the company rent you the plane for the cost of kerosene, and you pay yearly through your holdings for fixed costs, you avoid a lot of taxes. Tips from a friend who works at one of those places).
        JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
        > Talent here is very often having friends on the board And the customers' boards and management teams. And the suppliers'. And the regulators' and electeds'.
        11mo ago
      - hobs 11mo ago
        Say we pay them 1 million dollars instead of (googled) 25 million dollars. If we increase the compensation by another 60 thousand dollars a year that gives us room for 400 additional mechanics. The stock price of Ford might even go up if you could improve the repair situation.
        Esophagus4 11mo ago
        Who is “we?” Who in this situation should decide to pay the CEO less? Is it regulators? The board? Shareholders? I’m trying to understand your model for how executive compensation should be set.
        vitaflo 11mo ago
        He’s already only paid $1.6m in salary. Over $20m of his compensation is in stock. Someone else is paying him when they purchase his shares not Ford.
      - bryanrasmussen 11mo ago
        total compensation for Ford CEO is 24.9 million. But obviously it doesn't need to work that it is just taken from his money. I propose that if the money for mechanics is needed, it can be gotten by redirecting capital from other parts of the system to invest in mechanics, funny that math is the subject here because this redirecting of capital could even be thought of a mathematical process, although really more a number of related processes together, I shall call these processes that control how money will be moved to handle problems in the systems that exist to generate more money "Capitalism". In the rest of my work I shall discuss how the processes that control circulation of money will lead to its accumulation and conversion to power among a subset of power, allowing them to over time amass more and more power, I will note the problems this will imply but not really offer a solution as my primary interest is in describing the ways that need for a thing will cause the investment in that thing to rise over time, and decrease thereby investment in other things, as though the whole were an impartial and, as noted, nearly mathematical process in its elegance.
        mapontosevenths 11mo ago
        Your implied theory only applies to actual free market capitalism. Most/many CEO's don't get the gig thanks to an efficient market or being the best. There are others equally or better qualified who would do the job for much less. The typical justification for their high salaries is that it encourages the rest of the executives to buck harder for the role. In practice, far less pay could achieve that goal.
        bryanrasmussen 11mo ago
        your inferred theory does not seem to match up with the things I was implying, for example you seem to think I was saying something about the Ford CEO deserving the money they make in some way?
        mapontosevenths 11mo ago
        I think I missed your point. Mea culpa.
      - nixosbestos 11mo ago
        So are you out of touch with CEO comp packages, or are you also bad at math? (In case you or someone else needs to hear it, ain't no CEO ain't gonna fuck ya for defending CEO's excessive compensation in the Hacker News comments. What a weird thing to do.)
        vitaflo 11mo ago
        Go look at their actual compensation package and get back to me. Unless you want to pay everyone in stock instead of cash you aren’t saving any money.
        nixosbestos 11mo ago
        30,000,000 / 30,000. Hope you can find a calculator to help you with that challenging math. I know it gets hard with such big numbers! (kinda the point, here!)
        vitaflo 11mo ago
        If you don’t want to actually pay attention that’s fine.
    - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
      > We could take the difference from the CEO's pay This is California going after golf courses to solve its water problem. Ford spends about $3bn a year on dividends [1]. That's a quarter of their entire SG&A. [1] https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/37996/000003799625000186/f-20250930.htm#i7d32f188887143d381199a84083a36c8_16 https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/37996/000003...
      - mapontosevenths 11mo ago
        Dividends provide value to the shareholders. Propping up the good old boys network by overpaying for executive talent is of negative utility to the shareholders.
        JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
        > Propping up the good old boys network by overpaying for executive talent is of negative utility to the shareholders We don't really have evidence executives are overpaid. The fact that even cheapskate private company owners wind up paying their executives well should communicate something about what's going on.
        mapontosevenths 11mo ago
        There is a boatload of evidence. It's been studied repeatedly. Most of it shows that there is a small but real link between CEO pay and stock performance. This works best when CEO pay is tied directly to performance, and it isn't tied to the specific dollar value just the percentage of increase. IE - The $40m CEO doesn't actually outperform the $20m CEO, but a CEO who oversees a big jump in profits will see a big raise regardless of the reason. CEO pay DOES correlate strongly with luck. IE - They get rewarded with big bonuses when the larger market does well or taxes go down, and they don't tend to get smaller pay when the market does poorly.
        JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
        > this works best when CEO pay is tied directly to performance, and it isn't tied to the specific dollar value just the percentage of increase This is the line the executive compensation industry peddles. It has elements of truth. But it's not from an unbiased source. Again, there are lots of companies and lots of CEOs. That nobody has unlocked this arbitrage strongly suggests the simple story isn't the whole one.
  - solomonb 11mo ago
    They (and everyone else) should be paid the maximum amount the company can afford to pay while still being sustainable.
    - vineyardmike 11mo ago
      And if that’s too little, the company should go under and make room for a company with the cash flow to pay people a salary high enough to accept the job offer.
    - solomonb 11mo ago
      I would like to expand and add a little nuance to my statement as apparently it was controversial. From wikipedia: > Business is the practice of making one's living or making money by producing or buying and selling products (such as goods and services). It is also "any activity or enterprise entered into for profit." So a business is an activity or enterprise engaged in by people for profit. If a business exists to generate profit for its participants, it should maximize profit distribution to everyone involved in that business. This implies salary limits that maintain business sustainability. Otherwise, excessive compensation would eliminate profit for all participants. My point wasn't about how to balance salaries between different employees. I'm arguing that companies should maximize compensation for all employees (at every level) to the extent that doing so doesn't threaten the business's viability. Without this, you get companies hoarding excessive capital reserves that sit idle rather than circulating through the economy.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 11mo ago
    You raise a valid point that doesn't deserve the downvoting... But have you considered it fully? We're in a heap of shit if the pay that employers can truly afford is lower than the pay that employees require to earn the minimal livelihood. If there is really realsy no overlap there, then you need to stock up on canned food and shotgun shells.
- mhb 11mo ago
  We used to be able to assume that high school and college graduates could do elementary school math. Maybe what we used to do would be more palatable if we weren't pissing away money on dysfunctional public education.
  - paulpauper 11mo ago
    From what I have read online, failing high school is almost impossible. GPAs inflated to the point of useless.
    - cpursley 11mo ago
      My wife was a Title I teacher high school for a while, there was a LOT of pressure to “pass” kids out of the system for that sweet Federal money and other lets say, “political” reasons (like internal/local level, not left/right stuff). And she absolutely did her best to get them to pass on their own merit, but there’s only so much you can do if students don’t have the prerequisites + culture and motivation.
    - SonOfKyuss 11mo ago
      > From what I have read online... Don't believe everything you read online. My experience from actually having 2 kids currently in high school is that failing is damn near impossible, but GPA absolutely does mean something for most kids. There is definitely a group of kids at the bottom that in decades past would have been held back or dropped out and those kids are now just passed along. Is that better or worse than having them drop out? I don't really know, but the reality is that those kids likely wouldn't have been cut out for these jobs anyway. At the other end of the spectrum, the competition at the top can be fierce. My kids and their peers stress way more about their GPA than I ever did because competition for colleges has gotten tougher. The education is there for those who want to take advantage of it.
      - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
        > Is that better or worse than having them drop out? I don't really know It's worse. If they'd been held back earlier, they might have graduated high school prepared for the sorts of trades jobs this article discusses. Instead, they're processed through the system as a number. Best case, they aren't constantly disrupting their classrooms.
- darth_avocado 11mo ago
  Another thing I’ve heard is that Ford is terrible at designing maintainable cars and mechanics lose money working on them because Ford doesn’t accurately represent the time it takes to fix something. It was akin to replacing the gasket requires them to pick the engine apart and rebuild it, while Ford only pays them for an hour of labor. I can’t find the exact video at the moment but the reality is that even if Ford paid $120k, you’d probably be working 80 hours a week.
  - GenerWork 11mo ago
    >mechanics lose money working on them because Ford doesn’t accurately represent the time it takes to fix something I believe this is mainly for warranty or recall work. If it's out of warranty, then the charges can be much higher. It also depends on the difficulty of the work being done. I had my Mustangs rear diff seal replaced under warranty, and I guarantee you that doing that wasn't that bad in terms of pay or time taken.
    - queenkjuul 11mo ago
      If you're a mechanic employed by Ford, your gonna be doing mostly warranty and recall work
      - t-writescode 11mo ago
        And you shouldn't be being paid fake rates. You should be being paid *at least* your worked hours. Playing otherwise is, I would argue, theft. So 40 hours a week plus whatever overtime you would earn.
  - imgabe 11mo ago
    It sounds like this is the actual problem and instead of paying exorbitant salaries or fixing the entire US education system Ford just needs to face reality and accept how long repairs actually take and pay for that time. That and/or redesign their cars to take less time to repair.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 11mo ago
  How come Henry Ford could do this but modern companies cannot? I've only seen Electric Boat do this (defense contractor) and it's likely because the govt pays for it!
  - fooker 11mo ago
    Because it takes a lot more education to work at a modern factory than what it took in 1930. The rest of the world has kept up. Even if you could hypothetically cram 12 years of education into six months of training, the kind of mental effort required to go through that training would be quite impossible for the average person. But why do that when it’s so much easier to blame AI or immigration, or whatever the new boogeyman of the day is.
  - t-writescode 11mo ago
    "Can't" and "Won't" are two different things.
- theideaofcoffee 11mo ago
  “We can’t possibly afford to do this. It doesn’t make sense! What if we pay for all of this training and they leave?” “What if you don’t and they stay?” These companies think they can just reap all of the rewards without any investment, it’s stupid. I definitely agree with you saying that there needs to be a return to these places taking more care and investing in long-term people. Like you said, invest in them and they’ll invest in you.
  - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
    > What if we pay for all of this training and they leave?” This is a solved problem. If they quit early, they owe the cost of the education.
- bagacrap 11mo ago
  Where do you find the pay for [Ford] auto mechanics in 1995?
  - t-writescode 11mo ago
    https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/financial/salary-inflation-calculator.php https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/financial/salary-... I did the math in my head based on something I saw someone else share earlier today; but I was probably a bit off. Putting in 120k on this website for this year turns into about 58k in 1995
    - bagacrap 11mo ago
      I'm not asking about cumulative inflation since 1995. I'm asking how you know we used to pay auto mechanics more in real dollars than we do today.
- SilentM68 11mo ago
  I agree with your statement, for the most part. Investing in community college programs is one route since they are essentially a business. The main problem with the CCs is that they are very corrupt, have been issuing students worthless degrees. Essentially, the graduates don't have marketable skills. The colleges' goal is reaching a "graduation quota," and not "employability." Another way to go is adult and high school education, i.e. the old auto shop classes that are currently very hard to find. This goes for any other trade, such as Drafting, Welding, as well not just auto shop. So, yea, companies should pay more and invest in education, rather than bitch and complain about the lack of fully train workers. Sol Roth
  - Moto7451 11mo ago
    Community Colleges being considered corrupt is not an accusation I’ve heard. Is there something behind this or are you grouping them with the issues seen with Public Universities and grants/loans fueling spiraling tuition? The Community College I went to was about $20 per unit and offered a great education. Currently they’re $46 per unit. The instructors worked in the industry and were sharper than my 200 level University course instructors I paid $100 per unit for the year after my Associates Degree. I went to University as the Great Recession happened and had to go back to Community College as financial markets melted (and some life events happened) and that Associates Degree and an additional quarter of a Bachelors has served me well. I got my first job in software through a Community College affiliated internship, hopped to a Startup, and after a lot of years in between I’m on here musing with the rest of the industry. There are certainly “Extension” or non Trades “Certificate Only” programs but when looking at LinkedIn’s Alumni view they’ve minted a lot of Solar Techs, Electricians, and Building Engineers. I took Electronics courses as an elective with the PV guys and it was a lot of fun and seems rather profitable for that cohort. Ergo, I’m genuinely curious to know if this has been derailed in some way at large. Do you have any links to news on this?
    - SilentM68 11mo ago
      As I am no longer in the business of higher ed, I do not have any links but do have work experience at the CC level as well as an Associate, though no BS. The reason you don't see accusations is because it is kept on the downlow by the powers that be. I can say that in the time that I spent working at a particular CC, multiple CC presidents were kicked out for diverting funds into their private bank accounts. They were hired even after it was known that they got kicked out of other previous CCs. Millions of dollars in Financian Aid fraud was an issue in one state, in particular by fake Ghost Students enrolling only for the Financial Aid. Here's a link to that story: https://www.opencampus.org/2025/06/16/financial-aid-fraud-is-on-the-rise-in-california-how-federal-officials-plan-to-crack-down/ https://www.opencampus.org/2025/06/16/financial-aid-fraud-is... The administrators tend to be overpaid, half of the degrees that are offered are useless, mine included. Why are they useless, because there will never be sufficient employment for the graduates. Even knowing this economic reality, the college admins still insist on having the main goal as "graduation," not "employability." In my view, only auto, nursing, medical subjects and other practical trades guarantee employment, and thus are worth the $46 per unit as you put it. Please note that at one time, CCs were free, in the state that I reside in, though I myself went to school when the cost was $15 per unit. You should check out this link to take a look at the outrageous salaries that a lot of administrators generate: https://transparentcalifornia.com/ https://transparentcalifornia.com/ The problem with this is that the various student department and programs get a disproportionate allocation of the funds, with some getting the bulk, and others getting just a tiny slice of the budget that the office of education provides. Here's a simple example of the news that never gets carried by mainstream media. In last November 2024 Election, in California, for example, there were various measures which passed, that forced communities to pay taxes to pay for Community College expansions and repairs. People don't realize that in one school in particular the same thing was done some years or so before, and the money was mysteriously mishandled. This is a common occurrence in that state, for example. http://www.bigbadbonds.com/CALBONDS/ballot-argument-referral.cfm?y=2024&e=General&c=Los_Angeles&m=V http://www.bigbadbonds.com/CALBONDS/ballot-argument-referral... This has been the status quo prior to Trump. The federal funds have had a tendency to disappear. I noticed you used LinkedIn as a reference above, but it has its own issues with Fraud, aka Ghost Jobs posts and fake scammers offering users jobs that don't exist. I myself got approached by one and reported it LinkedIn support. In my view, LinkedIn is just another scam site that posts fake jobs just to lure people into purchasing their Pro subscription. I get that message and reminder every single day, so I disabled most notifications and don't use LinkedIn as a job search engine, anymore. Apologies, way too long of a response and I need to have some Soylent Green. Regards, Sol Roth
- JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
  > pay for their education. Invest in local colleges to help guide curriculum in what you need I get that we're still pretending EVs don't exist in America. But could the dearth of internal combustion mechanics be explained as an obselescence rent [1]? [1] https://www.nber.org/papers/w31743 https://www.nber.org/papers/w31743
rawgabbit 11mo ago
I find this hard to believe. How did they screen applicants?
Sevii 11mo ago
Just amazing that people keep letting the Ford CEO get away with this fake $120k claim.
- MBCook 11mo ago
  Can you provide a link debunking it?
  - deadbolt 11mo ago
    indeed.com
  - general1465 11mo ago
    Ford mechanic explaining where is a problem. https://www.motor1.com/news/774805/ford-ceo-complains-shortage-mechanics/ https://www.motor1.com/news/774805/ford-ceo-complains-shorta...
- fooker 11mo ago
  You could try to start a manufacturing business and see how it goes. It’s pretty dire. Check out the ‘Smarter Everyday’ YouTube video for what it took to get people to design and manufacture a simple grill scrubber in the US. They could find exactly one old retired guy with the knowledge and experience to make a mold, across several states. You can get this done and delivered in 20 minutes in Shenzhen, and talk to an expert over a storefront countertop by walking over a few hundred feet from your business.
  - Tadpole9181 11mo ago
    Yes, there is a lack of people with tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars to start a mass manufacturing business of parts everyone can get in China for a tenth of the cost. There is not a lack of mechanics who can assemble Fords on a factory line from pre-built components with instructions. FFS. Yes, America has a serious problem. No, the Ford CEO is not actually pointing it out. He's fucking lying so he can justify using what amounts to slave labor in other countries while also touting "patriotism" branding while also refusing to do even the tiniest possible to alleviate the problem via training.
jmclnx 11mo ago
So Ford's CEO said this, I almost fell on the floor laughing. >We are not investing in educating a next generation It is people like you who caused this with chasing short term profits and paying off US Congress people and presidents to cut your taxes. Education needs to be paid for by someone. Tax cuts for the wealthy and paying minimum wage to most workers caused this, look in the mirror.
- ungreased0675 11mo ago
  The US spends a huge amount of money on education though. The root cause can’t be a lack of resources due to insufficient tax revenue, there’s no evidence of that.
  - IAmBroom 11mo ago
    "Huge", yet not enough to cover tuition. The price of higher education skyrocketed past "huge".
- tonyhart7 11mo ago
  but US education system isnt paid by Tax dollar tho??? student loan is to fix this and therefore dont need taxpayer
  - jmclnx 11mo ago
    I do not understand this statement. Many US State Colleges were supported by tax dollars and in the 90s, tax cuts started happening and funding for public colleges declined and fees started being added. When I went to College, it was extremely cheep, books cost more than my tuition and fees. The state where I was had huge discounts for residents and since the college was in the City I was born and grew up in, I got even more discounts. Now, kids need to take out big loans for higher education. I will not go into cuts to public schools, these days, if parents can afford it, they send their kids to private school. When I was in school, the public schools were great, but they started to go down hill not long after I graduated High School.
bsder 11mo ago
Except they don't actually pay $120K per year. If the auto mechanics were paid a salary of $120K per year for 40 hours per week, they'd be flooded with applicants. Instead, that $120K number is if you can work the requisite number of overtime hours and you don't pay attention to having to buy your own tools and ...
- emchammer 11mo ago
  Do mechanics prefer to work with their own tools, or is this like a restaurant getting away with paying a tipped employee less than minimum wage because they can?
  - Spellman 11mo ago
    Generally the rule is you buy your own tools and then take them with you if you leave the shop. Lots of mechanics prefer owning their own tools because the community shop tools will end up beat up and not cared for. Plus, another thing locking you down to the location. On the other hand that's yet another personal expense.
  - bsder 11mo ago
    > Do mechanics prefer to work with their own tools, or is this like a restaurant getting away with paying a tipped employee less than minimum wage because they can? Part from Column A and part from Column B. It's also part of the accounting gimmicks to keep mechanics as "contractors" rather than "employees". Which is why all the whining rings hollow.
kayodelycaon 11mo ago
I saw the management my parents and grandparents had to deal with. I saw the hours they worked. I saw how little they were appreciated. I saw how companies screwed over people who had worked for decades. They haven’t changed one bit. They’re lying about how much they’re paying people. That’s a maximum you can earn working 70 hours per week, not the base. I am completely unsurprised they can’t find anybody to work for them.
greekrich92 11mo ago
Invest in candidates who will be ruthless about funding education and increasing the top marginal tax rate. What's that? I'm hearing this guy doesn't want to pay taxes?
AngryData 11mo ago
Go ahead and look up the pay for mechanics in Michigan, he is spewing pure bullshit. Most mechanics here have never in their life made $100k in a year, even with considerable overtime.
- paulpauper 11mo ago
  absurd pay claims usually mean after taking into account maximum possible overtime hours
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
ktallett 11mo ago
Ford spending $4 million to fund scholarships is going to make as much change to the system as me giving a homeless person a quarter. Considering how expensive college is, what exactly will that fund.
- kayodelycaon 11mo ago
  Maybe 200 people, if you’re optimistic.
  - Ancapistani 11mo ago
    At that scale, it starts to become reasonable to consider using the money to fund private job training programs instead.
  - Esophagus4 11mo ago
    I encourage you to Google it rather than speculate, as this information is readily available. > This year's program… is offering $5,000 scholarships to 800 potential automotive technicians from across the country. This year, the program is available across 42 states and for students attending nearly 600 schools. In addition to tuition assistance, scholarship funds can be used to cover day-to-day related expenses like living and transportation, childcare, and tools needed for class and more. Whether you believe all of that scholarship money will actually be given out is another question. https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/articles/2025/ford-philanthropy--dealers-tackle-auto-tech-shortage-with-expand https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/articles/2025/ford-ph...
    - ktallett 11mo ago
      I don't doubt they will give it out, it's just it doesn't state that is the total cost of the program to become a technician. When college for many costs up to and beyond $100,000, providing just 5% of the cost, is hardly worth shouting about. It definitely isn't a big enough gesture for a company that had revenue of $185 billion in 2024. I am sensing they could find a touch more to actually pay for workers to become technicians for their company, that would benefit them. They could even set up their own program/apprenticeship.
somanyphotons 11mo ago
$company can't find high skilled people willing to work for low wages
- ktallett 11mo ago
  This is basically the TLDR of so many companies situations.
RegW 11mo ago
Is this some obscure hint that there will be well paid skilled jobs to replace those taken away by AI? I'm sure I've previously heard it implied that all the grooms who lost their jobs to motor cars became mechanics and chauffeurs. Surely this would be just too poetic.
theoldgreybeard 11mo ago
Invest in upskilling then.
bgwalter 11mo ago
The first comment on the website says that $120K is a lie. Then of course, why would you specialize in the F150 if they add new electronic BS every 2 years, the car will perhaps be obsolete in 7 years or all tariffs on BYD are lifted in 8 years. Maybe keep cars general and don't make them proprietary, then people will learn general skills.
1v1id 11mo ago
I'm no expert, but from a quick Google search that looks to be twice the median income for a mechanic. If they can't find workers at that income level, it seems to me that they are either filtering based on another criteria (more than just trade school, as the article suggests) or Ford must be such an awful place to work that nobody applies.
- MillironX 11mo ago
  Bureau of Labor Statistics says that the mean annual wage of "Automotive Technicians and Repairers (SOC code 49-3020)" is $55,780 as of May 2025, so yeah, something doesn't add up.
  - Balgair 11mo ago
    It's very state dependent. For example, by law in California, auto mechanics make double minimum wage if they don't own their tools (so they can go buy some). That works out to about $68k/yr these days. $120k/yr is not suuuuuper crazy in some areas for some auto work (think restoration). But generally, yes, Ford is not adding up here
    - gilbetron 11mo ago
      > auto mechanics make double minimum wage if they don't own their tools (so they can go buy some) I think you have that backwards: "Typically, in California, if your employer wants you to provide and maintain your own work tools, they must pay you at least double the minimum wage. This means that in 2025, with California’s minimum wage at $16.50 per hour, your employer must pay you at least $33.00 per hour before they can require you to supply your own tools." Auto mechanics make double minimum wage if the do own their own tools.
      - Balgair 11mo ago
        Ah, yes, you got me there. I typed that out well before my first cup this morning. Thank you for the correction!
casey2 11mo ago
20% of highschool graduates know calculus but we can't get our shit together to hire any of them. We really need H-1Bs to work on oversized RC cars the skills are just too difficult for home grown plants.
- SonOfKyuss 11mo ago
  Up until about 2 years ago, the kids taking calculus were all becoming SW engineers for 3x the pay. With the way the job market for entry-level engineers is trending lately, maybe now there will be some left over for Ford to hire.
tclancy 11mo ago
As an old, I feel for the author. Her bio suggests she is or was sympathetic to the working class, but she done got old and moved to Silicon Valley so I wonder. “The Ford CEO's grandfather was one of the company's early employees, hired to work on the Model T.” Yeah, and one of my grandfathers was a cop and the other a foreman on a jewelry shop floor. Both of which have as much to do with my coding career as the square root of sweet Fanny Adams. My dad put himself through college by working in a garage. I will admit the math in the 50s or so was more rigorous than what I had in the 80s, but the idea anyone interested in working on cars can’t be taught from almost scratch seems like a strong take. Whether you paid attention in pre-algebra or not is going to have little to do with your ability to balance four tires as a system or clean a carb or set engine timing via a computer.
pbnjeh 11mo ago
Mechanics are a "cost center". Modern "Management" does not like paying for "cost centers". The rest is atmospherics. (The US has, in general, taken a similar attitude towards public education, while simultaneously making it responsible for "everything" regarding children's upbringing. Compounding the problem.)
- JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
  > Modern "Management" does not like paying for "cost centers" Nobody likes paying for cost centers.
  - tarsinge 11mo ago
    I think what the parent is critical about is the "cost center" labeling, because yes once it’s wrongly labeled like this nobody wants to pay for it.
asciimov 11mo ago
Ford needs to step up, if it can’t find mechanics. Pay is too low for entry level people, at maybe $14 an hour. That’s before the Snap-on Truck comes by and saddles that tech with $40k of debt. Give entry level workers a living wage, and give them tools to use (and keep after investing 3 years in the business). Have an actual pipeline for certification and training and remove the gate keeping of many dealers that prevent good techs from becoming better mechanics. Do better at engineering vehicles so they are easier to work on. As this CEO knows, doing the right thing is harder than complaining.
sonzohan 11mo ago
Community College professor here, in the midst of leaving my community college for a full university. Let me dissect this article with uncompromising scrutiny: > "...have over a million openings in critical jobs, emergency services, trucking, factory workers, plumbers, electricians and tradesmen.” Maybe because for 30 years America sold the idea that you need a bachelors degree to do the majority of these jobs, while simultaneously implying that you only needed 2 years of vocational school? A lot of these require extensive apprenticeships and experience (576 classroom hours, 8,000 experience hours, passing exams for a journeyman electrician license in Oregon). It's absolutely not "Go to school for 2 years and get paid $120k." Furthermore, most of the trades are brutal on your body, mind, and lifestyle. > "we don't have trade schools anymore" We do, and we do our best to train students on only the absolute necessary skills that get them the job and working as quickly as possible. Corporations stopped meaningfully supporting them while simultaneously raising expectations. Major companies stopped most training and orientation programs or significantly scaled them back, passed the burden of training onto community colleges and trade schools, and now complain that our tools and techniques are out of date. Ford does at my college this while keeping their name slapped on the auto mechanic's program because they helped start the program 20 years ago. Now they're upset because they're not getting the same returns while my fellow instructors struggle to teach on supplies that are 2 decades old. > "What we don't have are enough young people with the literacy and math proficiency needed to learn skilled trades." A lot of the K-12 complaint is the No Child Left Behind act and the effects of Common Core. Lots of throwing up of hands here saying "Well guess there's nothing we can do. We have all these high paying jobs that no one wants" Wanna fix this? Eliminate No Child Left Behind. Actually invest in teachers, tutors, and the people making the impact. Stop calling teachers 'heroes', and give us the resources to actually instruct kids. Stop assuming a household with 2-3 kids, 2 parents that work full time (overtime in today's America), are barely making ends meet, and have no extended family to help kids with homework or tutor, are going to somehow do extremely well. In fact, we have loads of papers that demonstrate that math scores and grades are pretty tightly correlated with parents'/family ability and availability to help kids with homework. Maybe have parents work less so they can tutor their kids more? > "Workers who struggle to read grade-level text cannot read complicated technical manuals or diagnostic instructions." They don't have trouble reading grade-level text. This is a complete misunderstanding of what those tests evaluate. More importantly: If they're struggling to read those complicated manuals or diagnostic instructions, maybe it's because most manufacturers eliminated a lot of the repairability of cars in the past few decades and scaled back their service manuals? Maybe invest in technical writing again? > They were passed on with inflated grades Because you stopped hiring anyone with less than a 3.0-4.0. If a teacher's job is to get a student a job in the trades, you won't hire them because their GPA is poor, and we get fired if too many students fail, guess what we (instructors) are going to do? > "If they can’t handle middle-school math they can’t program high-tech machines or robotics, or operate the automated equipment found in modern factories and repair shops." Also not correct, and a gross misinterpretation of what the national exams show. Most students can do most math with a calculator just fine, mental math not so much, but it's rare to be in a shop without some kind of computer or calculator nowadays. If you want people who have completed a 2 year trade program to be able to competently do calculus, robotics, PLCs, and program, you need to admit that the job requires far beyond 'middle-school math'. > ""Servicing an electric vehicle requires interpreting data flows, troubleshooting electronics, and following precise, multistep instructions." It's not a job for "grease monkeys." Here is the crux of the problem. All of these are needs that are way beyond a standard mechanical technician's toolkit. You need them to dual train as electrical engineers and mechanical engineers with notable expertise in 12/24v and rather high voltages for EVs. You don't want 'average technicians' for 120k, you want dual-degree mechanical and electrical engineers to work for you for less than their going market rate. If your toolchain requires more than an understanding of ODB2 (or 1-2 device) readings and a solid understanding of vehicular operations and what commonly breaks, then you've spent too much time making your products unrepairable and obtuse.
drweevil 11mo ago
>Farley complained that "we don't have trade schools anymore," reports Avi Zilber in the New York Post. Who, exactly, is this "we"? Capitalists talk up The Market, but are unwilling to pay market-driven wages and salaries, and expect others, usually the government, to foot the bill for training their skilled workers. It would also help if Ford and other vehicle manufacturers put some thought into incorporating maintainability into their designs. Their newest offerings are a hot mess in this respect.
650 11mo ago
Some of the students at UCSD can't do grade level math: Example: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fa-quarter-of-ucsd-students-are-literally-regarded-v0-4eqmtdeclu0g1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D97a5d3307c741c6cb7dafe229e801ea42f9bd82b https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.... https://senate.ucsd.edu/media/740347/sawg-report-on-admissions-review-docs.pdf https://senate.ucsd.edu/media/740347/sawg-report-on-admissio...
tennisflyi 11mo ago
This is ATS screening out perfectly good candidates
ChrisArchitect 11mo ago
Previously: Ford CEO says he has 5k open mechanic jobs with 6-figure salaries https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45920570 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45920570
mgarfias 11mo ago
This makes no sense. FoMoCo doesn’t hire mechanics to work on customer cars, franchise dealerships do. And no mechanic I’ve ever met makes 120k.
- mgarfias 11mo ago
  Also, most of the car people I know could easily debug software, they’re used to debugging fairly complex systems already. They just don’t know it. It’s the same basic way of thinking.
- addaon 11mo ago
  > And no mechanic I’ve ever met makes 120k. Plenty of A&Ps up there. Often doing more than 40 hours a week, but there's no shortage of work.
duxup 11mo ago
I don't doubt there's fewer people in the trades, but I also don't see them making 120k generally and these claims seem questionable at best outside some very specific situations. I worked at a company that actually paid well for a tech support team of about (roughly) 20 - 40 people at any given time covering a 24/7 schedule 365 days a year. Over the course of TWENTY years the core group all stayed together. It was no mystery how, good training (that we did ourselves), good pay to start, good benefits, flexible / respectful management. It wasn't even 6 figures, but they were good jobs that made it hard for most everyone to leave, in a good way. But all good things come to an end, tech support, I suspect like all "maintenance" roles they are eventually are seen as a cost and quality management starts to fade ... and everything falls apart. Management will bemoan not being able to find good people, while doing nothing to help make them good or treat them well. I wonder how many leaders understand that it is their job to MAKE A GOOD TEAM and that it is their job to keep it that way, as opposed to expect people to just show up and do it for them?
- nathanaldensr 11mo ago
  Your last paragraph reminds me of modern dating and relationship-building: people demanding everything from everyone else but nothing of themselves. Wanting it all and giving nothing. I guess we can chalk this up to living in a failed world.
  - kirubakaran 11mo ago
    Sure, some do that, not everyone. So I wouldn't call it a "failed world". I agree with your general point though.
ChoGGi 11mo ago
"Servicing an electric vehicle requires interpreting data flows, troubleshooting electronics, and following precise, multistep instructions." It's not a job for "grease monkeys." Ah yes, insults. The Best hiring method.
clearleaf 11mo ago
A lot of these HR departments are in serious need of an investigation. If they've really determined for themselves that nobody is good enough for this job I guarantee there is some kind of discrimination or fraud going on.

52 points by mhb 11mo ago

Do what we used to do. Pay them more. 120k is like 60k in mid 1990s money. And, pay for their education. Invest in local colleges to help guide curriculum in what you need. That’s what defense contractors and mega corps do / have done. Stop complaining and be stewards of your community. Like Henry Ford argued back in the day, “I want my employees to be able to buy a Ford”. Invest and the people will invest back.

paulpauper 11mo ago
Why not pay them 300k/year? 500k? It has to be viable or worthwhile for both parties
- mapontosevenths 11mo ago
  > Why not pay them 300k/year? 500k? That's a great idea! We could take the difference from the CEO's pay.
  - vitaflo 11mo ago
    Congrats you just bought yourself 10 mechanics.
    - shtzvhdx 11mo ago
      The SEC requires companies to disclose the executive pay to median salary. It 2023 it was 312:1. Ok, but $500 000/year isnt a median salary. But Ford's CEO is $26.4 million, so 53:1. Gather up the rest of the C-suit at Ford and you got a couple hundred mechanics. Do that to Stellantis and GM and you're at about 500 mechanics. 10 per state is not an insignificant number of high paid mechanics. Add Boeing, Raytheon, Lockheed, GE, and all the other once great industrial American jewels run by idiots and you have financed the training of a large portion of the American workforce.
      - xp84 11mo ago
        Except, now those companies have no leadership at all so just tell the workers to just do whatever seems like a good idea and hope for the best? Why haven't we seen a bunch of successful companies without any management if management is so useless/harmful? Just ICs self-organizing to run the whole business. Without any execs to pay they'd have a cost advantage running that way.
        mapontosevenths 11mo ago
        Why would they have no leadership at all? I suspect I can find a few willing to do it for a few paltry million, or maybe less.
        JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
        > suspect I can find a few willing to do it for a few paltry million Run an automotive giant? We're still in the thread where the argument for acquiring talent is to pay more, right?
        orwin 11mo ago
        'talent'. Talent here is very often having friends on the board, through common investments and co-ownership of those private jet/ luxury yacht/luxury hostel rentals that operates 'at a loss' (you only pay consumption taxes on your direct spending, if the company rent you the plane for the cost of kerosene, and you pay yearly through your holdings for fixed costs, you avoid a lot of taxes. Tips from a friend who works at one of those places).
        JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
        > Talent here is very often having friends on the board And the customers' boards and management teams. And the suppliers'. And the regulators' and electeds'.
        11mo ago
    - hobs 11mo ago
      Say we pay them 1 million dollars instead of (googled) 25 million dollars. If we increase the compensation by another 60 thousand dollars a year that gives us room for 400 additional mechanics. The stock price of Ford might even go up if you could improve the repair situation.
      - Esophagus4 11mo ago
        Who is “we?” Who in this situation should decide to pay the CEO less? Is it regulators? The board? Shareholders? I’m trying to understand your model for how executive compensation should be set.
      - vitaflo 11mo ago
        He’s already only paid $1.6m in salary. Over $20m of his compensation is in stock. Someone else is paying him when they purchase his shares not Ford.
    - bryanrasmussen 11mo ago
      total compensation for Ford CEO is 24.9 million. But obviously it doesn't need to work that it is just taken from his money. I propose that if the money for mechanics is needed, it can be gotten by redirecting capital from other parts of the system to invest in mechanics, funny that math is the subject here because this redirecting of capital could even be thought of a mathematical process, although really more a number of related processes together, I shall call these processes that control how money will be moved to handle problems in the systems that exist to generate more money "Capitalism". In the rest of my work I shall discuss how the processes that control circulation of money will lead to its accumulation and conversion to power among a subset of power, allowing them to over time amass more and more power, I will note the problems this will imply but not really offer a solution as my primary interest is in describing the ways that need for a thing will cause the investment in that thing to rise over time, and decrease thereby investment in other things, as though the whole were an impartial and, as noted, nearly mathematical process in its elegance.
      - mapontosevenths 11mo ago
        Your implied theory only applies to actual free market capitalism. Most/many CEO's don't get the gig thanks to an efficient market or being the best. There are others equally or better qualified who would do the job for much less. The typical justification for their high salaries is that it encourages the rest of the executives to buck harder for the role. In practice, far less pay could achieve that goal.
        bryanrasmussen 11mo ago
        your inferred theory does not seem to match up with the things I was implying, for example you seem to think I was saying something about the Ford CEO deserving the money they make in some way?
        mapontosevenths 11mo ago
        I think I missed your point. Mea culpa.
    - nixosbestos 11mo ago
      So are you out of touch with CEO comp packages, or are you also bad at math? (In case you or someone else needs to hear it, ain't no CEO ain't gonna fuck ya for defending CEO's excessive compensation in the Hacker News comments. What a weird thing to do.)
      - vitaflo 11mo ago
        Go look at their actual compensation package and get back to me. Unless you want to pay everyone in stock instead of cash you aren’t saving any money.
        nixosbestos 11mo ago
        30,000,000 / 30,000. Hope you can find a calculator to help you with that challenging math. I know it gets hard with such big numbers! (kinda the point, here!)
        vitaflo 11mo ago
        If you don’t want to actually pay attention that’s fine.
  - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
    > We could take the difference from the CEO's pay This is California going after golf courses to solve its water problem. Ford spends about $3bn a year on dividends [1]. That's a quarter of their entire SG&A. [1] https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/37996/000003799625000186/f-20250930.htm#i7d32f188887143d381199a84083a36c8_16 https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/37996/000003...
    - mapontosevenths 11mo ago
      Dividends provide value to the shareholders. Propping up the good old boys network by overpaying for executive talent is of negative utility to the shareholders.
      - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
        > Propping up the good old boys network by overpaying for executive talent is of negative utility to the shareholders We don't really have evidence executives are overpaid. The fact that even cheapskate private company owners wind up paying their executives well should communicate something about what's going on.
        mapontosevenths 11mo ago
        There is a boatload of evidence. It's been studied repeatedly. Most of it shows that there is a small but real link between CEO pay and stock performance. This works best when CEO pay is tied directly to performance, and it isn't tied to the specific dollar value just the percentage of increase. IE - The $40m CEO doesn't actually outperform the $20m CEO, but a CEO who oversees a big jump in profits will see a big raise regardless of the reason. CEO pay DOES correlate strongly with luck. IE - They get rewarded with big bonuses when the larger market does well or taxes go down, and they don't tend to get smaller pay when the market does poorly.
        JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
        > this works best when CEO pay is tied directly to performance, and it isn't tied to the specific dollar value just the percentage of increase This is the line the executive compensation industry peddles. It has elements of truth. But it's not from an unbiased source. Again, there are lots of companies and lots of CEOs. That nobody has unlocked this arbitrage strongly suggests the simple story isn't the whole one.
- solomonb 11mo ago
  They (and everyone else) should be paid the maximum amount the company can afford to pay while still being sustainable.
  - vineyardmike 11mo ago
    And if that’s too little, the company should go under and make room for a company with the cash flow to pay people a salary high enough to accept the job offer.
  - solomonb 11mo ago
    I would like to expand and add a little nuance to my statement as apparently it was controversial. From wikipedia: > Business is the practice of making one's living or making money by producing or buying and selling products (such as goods and services). It is also "any activity or enterprise entered into for profit." So a business is an activity or enterprise engaged in by people for profit. If a business exists to generate profit for its participants, it should maximize profit distribution to everyone involved in that business. This implies salary limits that maintain business sustainability. Otherwise, excessive compensation would eliminate profit for all participants. My point wasn't about how to balance salaries between different employees. I'm arguing that companies should maximize compensation for all employees (at every level) to the extent that doing so doesn't threaten the business's viability. Without this, you get companies hoarding excessive capital reserves that sit idle rather than circulating through the economy.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 11mo ago
  You raise a valid point that doesn't deserve the downvoting... But have you considered it fully? We're in a heap of shit if the pay that employers can truly afford is lower than the pay that employees require to earn the minimal livelihood. If there is really realsy no overlap there, then you need to stock up on canned food and shotgun shells.
mhb 11mo ago
We used to be able to assume that high school and college graduates could do elementary school math. Maybe what we used to do would be more palatable if we weren't pissing away money on dysfunctional public education.
- paulpauper 11mo ago
  From what I have read online, failing high school is almost impossible. GPAs inflated to the point of useless.
  - cpursley 11mo ago
    My wife was a Title I teacher high school for a while, there was a LOT of pressure to “pass” kids out of the system for that sweet Federal money and other lets say, “political” reasons (like internal/local level, not left/right stuff). And she absolutely did her best to get them to pass on their own merit, but there’s only so much you can do if students don’t have the prerequisites + culture and motivation.
  - SonOfKyuss 11mo ago
    > From what I have read online... Don't believe everything you read online. My experience from actually having 2 kids currently in high school is that failing is damn near impossible, but GPA absolutely does mean something for most kids. There is definitely a group of kids at the bottom that in decades past would have been held back or dropped out and those kids are now just passed along. Is that better or worse than having them drop out? I don't really know, but the reality is that those kids likely wouldn't have been cut out for these jobs anyway. At the other end of the spectrum, the competition at the top can be fierce. My kids and their peers stress way more about their GPA than I ever did because competition for colleges has gotten tougher. The education is there for those who want to take advantage of it.
    - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
      > Is that better or worse than having them drop out? I don't really know It's worse. If they'd been held back earlier, they might have graduated high school prepared for the sorts of trades jobs this article discusses. Instead, they're processed through the system as a number. Best case, they aren't constantly disrupting their classrooms.
darth_avocado 11mo ago
Another thing I’ve heard is that Ford is terrible at designing maintainable cars and mechanics lose money working on them because Ford doesn’t accurately represent the time it takes to fix something. It was akin to replacing the gasket requires them to pick the engine apart and rebuild it, while Ford only pays them for an hour of labor. I can’t find the exact video at the moment but the reality is that even if Ford paid $120k, you’d probably be working 80 hours a week.
- GenerWork 11mo ago
  >mechanics lose money working on them because Ford doesn’t accurately represent the time it takes to fix something I believe this is mainly for warranty or recall work. If it's out of warranty, then the charges can be much higher. It also depends on the difficulty of the work being done. I had my Mustangs rear diff seal replaced under warranty, and I guarantee you that doing that wasn't that bad in terms of pay or time taken.
  - queenkjuul 11mo ago
    If you're a mechanic employed by Ford, your gonna be doing mostly warranty and recall work
    - t-writescode 11mo ago
      And you shouldn't be being paid fake rates. You should be being paid *at least* your worked hours. Playing otherwise is, I would argue, theft. So 40 hours a week plus whatever overtime you would earn.
- imgabe 11mo ago
  It sounds like this is the actual problem and instead of paying exorbitant salaries or fixing the entire US education system Ford just needs to face reality and accept how long repairs actually take and pay for that time. That and/or redesign their cars to take less time to repair.
2OEH8eoCRo0 11mo ago
How come Henry Ford could do this but modern companies cannot? I've only seen Electric Boat do this (defense contractor) and it's likely because the govt pays for it!
- fooker 11mo ago
  Because it takes a lot more education to work at a modern factory than what it took in 1930. The rest of the world has kept up. Even if you could hypothetically cram 12 years of education into six months of training, the kind of mental effort required to go through that training would be quite impossible for the average person. But why do that when it’s so much easier to blame AI or immigration, or whatever the new boogeyman of the day is.
- t-writescode 11mo ago
  "Can't" and "Won't" are two different things.
theideaofcoffee 11mo ago
“We can’t possibly afford to do this. It doesn’t make sense! What if we pay for all of this training and they leave?” “What if you don’t and they stay?” These companies think they can just reap all of the rewards without any investment, it’s stupid. I definitely agree with you saying that there needs to be a return to these places taking more care and investing in long-term people. Like you said, invest in them and they’ll invest in you.
- JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
  > What if we pay for all of this training and they leave?” This is a solved problem. If they quit early, they owe the cost of the education.
bagacrap 11mo ago
Where do you find the pay for [Ford] auto mechanics in 1995?
- t-writescode 11mo ago
  https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/financial/salary-inflation-calculator.php https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/financial/salary-... I did the math in my head based on something I saw someone else share earlier today; but I was probably a bit off. Putting in 120k on this website for this year turns into about 58k in 1995
  - bagacrap 11mo ago
    I'm not asking about cumulative inflation since 1995. I'm asking how you know we used to pay auto mechanics more in real dollars than we do today.
SilentM68 11mo ago
I agree with your statement, for the most part. Investing in community college programs is one route since they are essentially a business. The main problem with the CCs is that they are very corrupt, have been issuing students worthless degrees. Essentially, the graduates don't have marketable skills. The colleges' goal is reaching a "graduation quota," and not "employability." Another way to go is adult and high school education, i.e. the old auto shop classes that are currently very hard to find. This goes for any other trade, such as Drafting, Welding, as well not just auto shop. So, yea, companies should pay more and invest in education, rather than bitch and complain about the lack of fully train workers. Sol Roth
- Moto7451 11mo ago
  Community Colleges being considered corrupt is not an accusation I’ve heard. Is there something behind this or are you grouping them with the issues seen with Public Universities and grants/loans fueling spiraling tuition? The Community College I went to was about $20 per unit and offered a great education. Currently they’re $46 per unit. The instructors worked in the industry and were sharper than my 200 level University course instructors I paid $100 per unit for the year after my Associates Degree. I went to University as the Great Recession happened and had to go back to Community College as financial markets melted (and some life events happened) and that Associates Degree and an additional quarter of a Bachelors has served me well. I got my first job in software through a Community College affiliated internship, hopped to a Startup, and after a lot of years in between I’m on here musing with the rest of the industry. There are certainly “Extension” or non Trades “Certificate Only” programs but when looking at LinkedIn’s Alumni view they’ve minted a lot of Solar Techs, Electricians, and Building Engineers. I took Electronics courses as an elective with the PV guys and it was a lot of fun and seems rather profitable for that cohort. Ergo, I’m genuinely curious to know if this has been derailed in some way at large. Do you have any links to news on this?
  - SilentM68 11mo ago
    As I am no longer in the business of higher ed, I do not have any links but do have work experience at the CC level as well as an Associate, though no BS. The reason you don't see accusations is because it is kept on the downlow by the powers that be. I can say that in the time that I spent working at a particular CC, multiple CC presidents were kicked out for diverting funds into their private bank accounts. They were hired even after it was known that they got kicked out of other previous CCs. Millions of dollars in Financian Aid fraud was an issue in one state, in particular by fake Ghost Students enrolling only for the Financial Aid. Here's a link to that story: https://www.opencampus.org/2025/06/16/financial-aid-fraud-is-on-the-rise-in-california-how-federal-officials-plan-to-crack-down/ https://www.opencampus.org/2025/06/16/financial-aid-fraud-is... The administrators tend to be overpaid, half of the degrees that are offered are useless, mine included. Why are they useless, because there will never be sufficient employment for the graduates. Even knowing this economic reality, the college admins still insist on having the main goal as "graduation," not "employability." In my view, only auto, nursing, medical subjects and other practical trades guarantee employment, and thus are worth the $46 per unit as you put it. Please note that at one time, CCs were free, in the state that I reside in, though I myself went to school when the cost was $15 per unit. You should check out this link to take a look at the outrageous salaries that a lot of administrators generate: https://transparentcalifornia.com/ https://transparentcalifornia.com/ The problem with this is that the various student department and programs get a disproportionate allocation of the funds, with some getting the bulk, and others getting just a tiny slice of the budget that the office of education provides. Here's a simple example of the news that never gets carried by mainstream media. In last November 2024 Election, in California, for example, there were various measures which passed, that forced communities to pay taxes to pay for Community College expansions and repairs. People don't realize that in one school in particular the same thing was done some years or so before, and the money was mysteriously mishandled. This is a common occurrence in that state, for example. http://www.bigbadbonds.com/CALBONDS/ballot-argument-referral.cfm?y=2024&e=General&c=Los_Angeles&m=V http://www.bigbadbonds.com/CALBONDS/ballot-argument-referral... This has been the status quo prior to Trump. The federal funds have had a tendency to disappear. I noticed you used LinkedIn as a reference above, but it has its own issues with Fraud, aka Ghost Jobs posts and fake scammers offering users jobs that don't exist. I myself got approached by one and reported it LinkedIn support. In my view, LinkedIn is just another scam site that posts fake jobs just to lure people into purchasing their Pro subscription. I get that message and reminder every single day, so I disabled most notifications and don't use LinkedIn as a job search engine, anymore. Apologies, way too long of a response and I need to have some Soylent Green. Regards, Sol Roth
JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
> pay for their education. Invest in local colleges to help guide curriculum in what you need I get that we're still pretending EVs don't exist in America. But could the dearth of internal combustion mechanics be explained as an obselescence rent [1]? [1] https://www.nber.org/papers/w31743 https://www.nber.org/papers/w31743

rawgabbit 11mo ago

I find this hard to believe. How did they screen applicants?

Sevii 11mo ago

Just amazing that people keep letting the Ford CEO get away with this fake $120k claim.

MBCook 11mo ago
Can you provide a link debunking it?
- deadbolt 11mo ago
  indeed.com
- general1465 11mo ago
  Ford mechanic explaining where is a problem. https://www.motor1.com/news/774805/ford-ceo-complains-shortage-mechanics/ https://www.motor1.com/news/774805/ford-ceo-complains-shorta...
fooker 11mo ago
You could try to start a manufacturing business and see how it goes. It’s pretty dire. Check out the ‘Smarter Everyday’ YouTube video for what it took to get people to design and manufacture a simple grill scrubber in the US. They could find exactly one old retired guy with the knowledge and experience to make a mold, across several states. You can get this done and delivered in 20 minutes in Shenzhen, and talk to an expert over a storefront countertop by walking over a few hundred feet from your business.
- Tadpole9181 11mo ago
  Yes, there is a lack of people with tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars to start a mass manufacturing business of parts everyone can get in China for a tenth of the cost. There is not a lack of mechanics who can assemble Fords on a factory line from pre-built components with instructions. FFS. Yes, America has a serious problem. No, the Ford CEO is not actually pointing it out. He's fucking lying so he can justify using what amounts to slave labor in other countries while also touting "patriotism" branding while also refusing to do even the tiniest possible to alleviate the problem via training.

jmclnx 11mo ago

So Ford's CEO said this, I almost fell on the floor laughing. >We are not investing in educating a next generation It is people like you who caused this with chasing short term profits and paying off US Congress people and presidents to cut your taxes. Education needs to be paid for by someone. Tax cuts for the wealthy and paying minimum wage to most workers caused this, look in the mirror.

ungreased0675 11mo ago
The US spends a huge amount of money on education though. The root cause can’t be a lack of resources due to insufficient tax revenue, there’s no evidence of that.
- IAmBroom 11mo ago
  "Huge", yet not enough to cover tuition. The price of higher education skyrocketed past "huge".
tonyhart7 11mo ago
but US education system isnt paid by Tax dollar tho??? student loan is to fix this and therefore dont need taxpayer
- jmclnx 11mo ago
  I do not understand this statement. Many US State Colleges were supported by tax dollars and in the 90s, tax cuts started happening and funding for public colleges declined and fees started being added. When I went to College, it was extremely cheep, books cost more than my tuition and fees. The state where I was had huge discounts for residents and since the college was in the City I was born and grew up in, I got even more discounts. Now, kids need to take out big loans for higher education. I will not go into cuts to public schools, these days, if parents can afford it, they send their kids to private school. When I was in school, the public schools were great, but they started to go down hill not long after I graduated High School.

bsder 11mo ago

Except they don't actually pay $120K per year. If the auto mechanics were paid a salary of $120K per year for 40 hours per week, they'd be flooded with applicants. Instead, that $120K number is if you can work the requisite number of overtime hours and you don't pay attention to having to buy your own tools and ...

emchammer 11mo ago
Do mechanics prefer to work with their own tools, or is this like a restaurant getting away with paying a tipped employee less than minimum wage because they can?
- Spellman 11mo ago
  Generally the rule is you buy your own tools and then take them with you if you leave the shop. Lots of mechanics prefer owning their own tools because the community shop tools will end up beat up and not cared for. Plus, another thing locking you down to the location. On the other hand that's yet another personal expense.
- bsder 11mo ago
  > Do mechanics prefer to work with their own tools, or is this like a restaurant getting away with paying a tipped employee less than minimum wage because they can? Part from Column A and part from Column B. It's also part of the accounting gimmicks to keep mechanics as "contractors" rather than "employees". Which is why all the whining rings hollow.

kayodelycaon 11mo ago

I saw the management my parents and grandparents had to deal with. I saw the hours they worked. I saw how little they were appreciated. I saw how companies screwed over people who had worked for decades. They haven’t changed one bit. They’re lying about how much they’re paying people. That’s a maximum you can earn working 70 hours per week, not the base. I am completely unsurprised they can’t find anybody to work for them.

greekrich92 11mo ago

Invest in candidates who will be ruthless about funding education and increasing the top marginal tax rate. What's that? I'm hearing this guy doesn't want to pay taxes?

AngryData 11mo ago

Go ahead and look up the pay for mechanics in Michigan, he is spewing pure bullshit. Most mechanics here have never in their life made $100k in a year, even with considerable overtime.

paulpauper 11mo ago
absurd pay claims usually mean after taking into account maximum possible overtime hours
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]

ktallett 11mo ago

Ford spending $4 million to fund scholarships is going to make as much change to the system as me giving a homeless person a quarter. Considering how expensive college is, what exactly will that fund.

kayodelycaon 11mo ago
Maybe 200 people, if you’re optimistic.
- Ancapistani 11mo ago
  At that scale, it starts to become reasonable to consider using the money to fund private job training programs instead.
- Esophagus4 11mo ago
  I encourage you to Google it rather than speculate, as this information is readily available. > This year's program… is offering $5,000 scholarships to 800 potential automotive technicians from across the country. This year, the program is available across 42 states and for students attending nearly 600 schools. In addition to tuition assistance, scholarship funds can be used to cover day-to-day related expenses like living and transportation, childcare, and tools needed for class and more. Whether you believe all of that scholarship money will actually be given out is another question. https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/articles/2025/ford-philanthropy--dealers-tackle-auto-tech-shortage-with-expand https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/articles/2025/ford-ph...
  - ktallett 11mo ago
    I don't doubt they will give it out, it's just it doesn't state that is the total cost of the program to become a technician. When college for many costs up to and beyond $100,000, providing just 5% of the cost, is hardly worth shouting about. It definitely isn't a big enough gesture for a company that had revenue of $185 billion in 2024. I am sensing they could find a touch more to actually pay for workers to become technicians for their company, that would benefit them. They could even set up their own program/apprenticeship.

somanyphotons 11mo ago

$company can't find high skilled people willing to work for low wages

ktallett 11mo ago
This is basically the TLDR of so many companies situations.

RegW 11mo ago

Is this some obscure hint that there will be well paid skilled jobs to replace those taken away by AI? I'm sure I've previously heard it implied that all the grooms who lost their jobs to motor cars became mechanics and chauffeurs. Surely this would be just too poetic.

theoldgreybeard 11mo ago

Invest in upskilling then.

bgwalter 11mo ago

The first comment on the website says that $120K is a lie. Then of course, why would you specialize in the F150 if they add new electronic BS every 2 years, the car will perhaps be obsolete in 7 years or all tariffs on BYD are lifted in 8 years. Maybe keep cars general and don't make them proprietary, then people will learn general skills.

1v1id 11mo ago

I'm no expert, but from a quick Google search that looks to be twice the median income for a mechanic. If they can't find workers at that income level, it seems to me that they are either filtering based on another criteria (more than just trade school, as the article suggests) or Ford must be such an awful place to work that nobody applies.

MillironX 11mo ago
Bureau of Labor Statistics says that the mean annual wage of "Automotive Technicians and Repairers (SOC code 49-3020)" is $55,780 as of May 2025, so yeah, something doesn't add up.
- Balgair 11mo ago
  It's very state dependent. For example, by law in California, auto mechanics make double minimum wage if they don't own their tools (so they can go buy some). That works out to about $68k/yr these days. $120k/yr is not suuuuuper crazy in some areas for some auto work (think restoration). But generally, yes, Ford is not adding up here
  - gilbetron 11mo ago
    > auto mechanics make double minimum wage if they don't own their tools (so they can go buy some) I think you have that backwards: "Typically, in California, if your employer wants you to provide and maintain your own work tools, they must pay you at least double the minimum wage. This means that in 2025, with California’s minimum wage at $16.50 per hour, your employer must pay you at least $33.00 per hour before they can require you to supply your own tools." Auto mechanics make double minimum wage if the do own their own tools.
    - Balgair 11mo ago
      Ah, yes, you got me there. I typed that out well before my first cup this morning. Thank you for the correction!

casey2 11mo ago

20% of highschool graduates know calculus but we can't get our shit together to hire any of them. We really need H-1Bs to work on oversized RC cars the skills are just too difficult for home grown plants.

SonOfKyuss 11mo ago
Up until about 2 years ago, the kids taking calculus were all becoming SW engineers for 3x the pay. With the way the job market for entry-level engineers is trending lately, maybe now there will be some left over for Ford to hire.

tclancy 11mo ago

As an old, I feel for the author. Her bio suggests she is or was sympathetic to the working class, but she done got old and moved to Silicon Valley so I wonder. “The Ford CEO's grandfather was one of the company's early employees, hired to work on the Model T.” Yeah, and one of my grandfathers was a cop and the other a foreman on a jewelry shop floor. Both of which have as much to do with my coding career as the square root of sweet Fanny Adams. My dad put himself through college by working in a garage. I will admit the math in the 50s or so was more rigorous than what I had in the 80s, but the idea anyone interested in working on cars can’t be taught from almost scratch seems like a strong take. Whether you paid attention in pre-algebra or not is going to have little to do with your ability to balance four tires as a system or clean a carb or set engine timing via a computer.

pbnjeh 11mo ago

Mechanics are a "cost center". Modern "Management" does not like paying for "cost centers". The rest is atmospherics. (The US has, in general, taken a similar attitude towards public education, while simultaneously making it responsible for "everything" regarding children's upbringing. Compounding the problem.)

JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
> Modern "Management" does not like paying for "cost centers" Nobody likes paying for cost centers.
- tarsinge 11mo ago
  I think what the parent is critical about is the "cost center" labeling, because yes once it’s wrongly labeled like this nobody wants to pay for it.

asciimov 11mo ago

Ford needs to step up, if it can’t find mechanics. Pay is too low for entry level people, at maybe $14 an hour. That’s before the Snap-on Truck comes by and saddles that tech with $40k of debt. Give entry level workers a living wage, and give them tools to use (and keep after investing 3 years in the business). Have an actual pipeline for certification and training and remove the gate keeping of many dealers that prevent good techs from becoming better mechanics. Do better at engineering vehicles so they are easier to work on. As this CEO knows, doing the right thing is harder than complaining.

sonzohan 11mo ago

Community College professor here, in the midst of leaving my community college for a full university. Let me dissect this article with uncompromising scrutiny: > "...have over a million openings in critical jobs, emergency services, trucking, factory workers, plumbers, electricians and tradesmen.” Maybe because for 30 years America sold the idea that you need a bachelors degree to do the majority of these jobs, while simultaneously implying that you only needed 2 years of vocational school? A lot of these require extensive apprenticeships and experience (576 classroom hours, 8,000 experience hours, passing exams for a journeyman electrician license in Oregon). It's absolutely not "Go to school for 2 years and get paid $120k." Furthermore, most of the trades are brutal on your body, mind, and lifestyle. > "we don't have trade schools anymore" We do, and we do our best to train students on only the absolute necessary skills that get them the job and working as quickly as possible. Corporations stopped meaningfully supporting them while simultaneously raising expectations. Major companies stopped most training and orientation programs or significantly scaled them back, passed the burden of training onto community colleges and trade schools, and now complain that our tools and techniques are out of date. Ford does at my college this while keeping their name slapped on the auto mechanic's program because they helped start the program 20 years ago. Now they're upset because they're not getting the same returns while my fellow instructors struggle to teach on supplies that are 2 decades old. > "What we don't have are enough young people with the literacy and math proficiency needed to learn skilled trades." A lot of the K-12 complaint is the No Child Left Behind act and the effects of Common Core. Lots of throwing up of hands here saying "Well guess there's nothing we can do. We have all these high paying jobs that no one wants" Wanna fix this? Eliminate No Child Left Behind. Actually invest in teachers, tutors, and the people making the impact. Stop calling teachers 'heroes', and give us the resources to actually instruct kids. Stop assuming a household with 2-3 kids, 2 parents that work full time (overtime in today's America), are barely making ends meet, and have no extended family to help kids with homework or tutor, are going to somehow do extremely well. In fact, we have loads of papers that demonstrate that math scores and grades are pretty tightly correlated with parents'/family ability and availability to help kids with homework. Maybe have parents work less so they can tutor their kids more? > "Workers who struggle to read grade-level text cannot read complicated technical manuals or diagnostic instructions." They don't have trouble reading grade-level text. This is a complete misunderstanding of what those tests evaluate. More importantly: If they're struggling to read those complicated manuals or diagnostic instructions, maybe it's because most manufacturers eliminated a lot of the repairability of cars in the past few decades and scaled back their service manuals? Maybe invest in technical writing again? > They were passed on with inflated grades Because you stopped hiring anyone with less than a 3.0-4.0. If a teacher's job is to get a student a job in the trades, you won't hire them because their GPA is poor, and we get fired if too many students fail, guess what we (instructors) are going to do? > "If they can’t handle middle-school math they can’t program high-tech machines or robotics, or operate the automated equipment found in modern factories and repair shops." Also not correct, and a gross misinterpretation of what the national exams show. Most students can do most math with a calculator just fine, mental math not so much, but it's rare to be in a shop without some kind of computer or calculator nowadays. If you want people who have completed a 2 year trade program to be able to competently do calculus, robotics, PLCs, and program, you need to admit that the job requires far beyond 'middle-school math'. > ""Servicing an electric vehicle requires interpreting data flows, troubleshooting electronics, and following precise, multistep instructions." It's not a job for "grease monkeys." Here is the crux of the problem. All of these are needs that are way beyond a standard mechanical technician's toolkit. You need them to dual train as electrical engineers and mechanical engineers with notable expertise in 12/24v and rather high voltages for EVs. You don't want 'average technicians' for 120k, you want dual-degree mechanical and electrical engineers to work for you for less than their going market rate. If your toolchain requires more than an understanding of ODB2 (or 1-2 device) readings and a solid understanding of vehicular operations and what commonly breaks, then you've spent too much time making your products unrepairable and obtuse.

drweevil 11mo ago

>Farley complained that "we don't have trade schools anymore," reports Avi Zilber in the New York Post. Who, exactly, is this "we"? Capitalists talk up The Market, but are unwilling to pay market-driven wages and salaries, and expect others, usually the government, to foot the bill for training their skilled workers. It would also help if Ford and other vehicle manufacturers put some thought into incorporating maintainability into their designs. Their newest offerings are a hot mess in this respect.

650 11mo ago

Some of the students at UCSD can't do grade level math: Example: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fa-quarter-of-ucsd-students-are-literally-regarded-v0-4eqmtdeclu0g1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D97a5d3307c741c6cb7dafe229e801ea42f9bd82b https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.... https://senate.ucsd.edu/media/740347/sawg-report-on-admissions-review-docs.pdf https://senate.ucsd.edu/media/740347/sawg-report-on-admissio...

tennisflyi 11mo ago

This is ATS screening out perfectly good candidates

ChrisArchitect 11mo ago

Previously: Ford CEO says he has 5k open mechanic jobs with 6-figure salaries https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45920570 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45920570

mgarfias 11mo ago

This makes no sense. FoMoCo doesn’t hire mechanics to work on customer cars, franchise dealerships do. And no mechanic I’ve ever met makes 120k.

mgarfias 11mo ago
Also, most of the car people I know could easily debug software, they’re used to debugging fairly complex systems already. They just don’t know it. It’s the same basic way of thinking.
addaon 11mo ago
> And no mechanic I’ve ever met makes 120k. Plenty of A&Ps up there. Often doing more than 40 hours a week, but there's no shortage of work.

duxup 11mo ago

I don't doubt there's fewer people in the trades, but I also don't see them making 120k generally and these claims seem questionable at best outside some very specific situations. I worked at a company that actually paid well for a tech support team of about (roughly) 20 - 40 people at any given time covering a 24/7 schedule 365 days a year. Over the course of TWENTY years the core group all stayed together. It was no mystery how, good training (that we did ourselves), good pay to start, good benefits, flexible / respectful management. It wasn't even 6 figures, but they were good jobs that made it hard for most everyone to leave, in a good way. But all good things come to an end, tech support, I suspect like all "maintenance" roles they are eventually are seen as a cost and quality management starts to fade ... and everything falls apart. Management will bemoan not being able to find good people, while doing nothing to help make them good or treat them well. I wonder how many leaders understand that it is their job to MAKE A GOOD TEAM and that it is their job to keep it that way, as opposed to expect people to just show up and do it for them?

nathanaldensr 11mo ago
Your last paragraph reminds me of modern dating and relationship-building: people demanding everything from everyone else but nothing of themselves. Wanting it all and giving nothing. I guess we can chalk this up to living in a failed world.
- kirubakaran 11mo ago
  Sure, some do that, not everyone. So I wouldn't call it a "failed world". I agree with your general point though.

ChoGGi 11mo ago

"Servicing an electric vehicle requires interpreting data flows, troubleshooting electronics, and following precise, multistep instructions." It's not a job for "grease monkeys." Ah yes, insults. The Best hiring method.

clearleaf 11mo ago

A lot of these HR departments are in serious need of an investigation. If they've really determined for themselves that nobody is good enough for this job I guarantee there is some kind of discrimination or fraud going on.