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I was in SF a few weekend ago and rode both Waymo and normal Lyft style taxi cars. the Waymo was a better experience in every single way. One of the Lyfts i was

by mmmlinux 11mo ago

I was in SF a few weekend ago and rode both Waymo and normal Lyft style taxi cars. the Waymo was a better experience in every single way. One of the Lyfts i was in drove on the shoulder for a while like it was a lane. The Waymos were just smooth consistent driving. No aggressive driving to get you dumped off so they can get to the next fair.

prismatix 11mo ago
I had a similar experience. A few months ago, I was in the city for a weekend and took Waymo for most of my rides. The one time I chose to use Lyft/Uber, the driver floored it before we even had a chance to shut the door or get buckled! The rest of the time we took Waymo. I rarely use ride-sharing but other experiences include having been in a FSD Tesla Uber where the driver wasn't paying attention to the road the entire time (hands off the wheel, looking behind him, etc.). I don't know if I trust Waymo cars with my life, but at least there are SOME standards, compared to the natural variance of humans.
- Swizec 11mo ago
  > I don't know if I trust Waymo cars with my life, but at least there are SOME standards, compared to the natural variance of humans I’ve ridden in a lot of Waymos – 800km I’m told! – and they’re great. The bit that impresses me most is that they drive like a confident city driver. Already in the intersection and it turns red? Floor it out of the way! Light just turned yellow and you don’t have time to stop? Continue calmly. Stuff like that. Saw a lot of other AI cars get flustered and confused in those situations. Humans too. For me I like Waymos because of the consistent social experience. There is none. With drivers they’re usually chatty at all the wrong moments when I’m not in the mood or just want to catch up on emails. Or I’m feeling chatty and the driver is not, it’s rarely a perfect match. With Waymo it’s just a ride.
  - astrange 11mo ago
    I did have one drive straight through a big pothole in LA once, and I also felt like it chose extremely boring routes. But neither of those are very surprising. Oh, and it doesn't like to pull into hotel entrances but instead stops randomly on the street outside it.
    - andsoitis 11mo ago
      > and I also felt like it chose extremely boring routes $$ opportunity: pay $10 extra and Waymo will choose more exciting route.
      - kbaker 11mo ago
        I mean, if the scenic route is longer anyways, the revenue potential is there to fund it... just a 'take me the scenic route' checkbox?
      - tgsovlerkhgsel 11mo ago
        Or "pay $10 extra and it'll drive extremely aggressively" (in the acceleration/braking/taking turns at speed sense, i.e. only ways that don't affect safety, not "cutting people off"). The sane default is obviously "boring", as it projects an image of safety and control, is comfortable, and reduces wear on the car... but if the user pays for the wear and wants an uncomfortable ride, why not?
        socalgal2 11mo ago
        roads are shared resources. As long as it's not breaking any laws then sure but please don't ask it to raise the risks to other people on the road. Just tune out on your phone/tablet/laptop and ignore the boring safer ride.
        sdenton4 11mo ago
        Maintaining safety across multiple driving "modes" multiplies the complexity of the problem, in a space where safety incidents can shift public opinion of the whole industry. This is a bad idea...
- ericmcer 11mo ago
  It must be interesting being an Uber driver right now and literally watching the robots that will replace you driving around with you. This has been a 15+ year process and will probably take a few more years. I don't feel too bad if they didn't manage to pivot in that time period.
  - pa7ch 11mo ago
    You say the term pivot like its a startup founder who has every option in life. You should feel bad for anyone who would struggle for a basic job.
    - dekhn 11mo ago
      the history of humans on earth has been pivots, even amongst people who had few options. I don't subscribe to feeling guilty every time somebody loses a job. I feel empathy, but telling people to "feel bad" is not constructive.
      - phainopepla2 11mo ago
        "Feel bad for" is not the same as "feel bad". The former is the same as feeling empathy, in colloquial English
      - kannanvijayan 11mo ago
        In a society where having a job is, for that vast majority not in the non-gilded classes, the only mechanism by which a person can secure their core needs.. losing a job is indeed a pitiable situation for most. If we've built a society that when it "pivots" leaves swathes of people smeared out as residual waste, I'd argue we should feel bad. We've certainly reached a point of technological advancement where many of these consequences at the individual level are avoidable. If they're still happening, it's because we've chosen this outcome - perhaps passively. But the clear implication of would be that we're collectively failing ourselves, as a species that tends to put some degree of pride in our intelligence. And we should feel bad about that failure. It's OK to feel bad about that failure. We tend not to improve things we don't feel bad about.
- Lammy 11mo ago
  > I don't know if I trust Waymo cars with my life, but at least there are SOME standards, compared to the natural variance of humans. The one thing you can trust Waymo to do is spy on you. Hurray, more surveillance-on-wheels! Every one of these things has 29 visible-light cameras, 5 LIDARs, 4 RADARs, and is using four H100s to process all of its realtime imagery of you: https://thelastdriverlicenseholder.com/2024/10/27/waymos-5-6-billion-round-and-details-of-the-ai-used/ https://thelastdriverlicenseholder.com/2024/10/27/waymos-5-6...
  - blibble 11mo ago
    if there's 4 H100s in there, that's effectively a gold bar in terms of value just sitting there in a vehicle that is unmanned and unguarded, which anyone can summon to a dodgy warehouse what do you think will happen once this becomes public knowledge?
    - Lammy 11mo ago
      Four H100s in an Alphabet datacenter somewhere, obviously.
- vdupras 11mo ago
  > A few months ago, I was in the city for a weekend and took Waymo for most of my rides. > [...] > I don't know if I trust Waymo cars with my life [...] I'm sorry to be that guy, but didn't you already?
holler 11mo ago
I had my first waymo ride in Austin recently and it suddenly slowed down to 20mph in 40mph zone for 5+ mins before returning to normal speed. Cars were passing around us and it felt like the car was glitching out, which felt very sketchy.
- vjerancrnjak 11mo ago
  I was doing this a lot in US whenever I’d see construction work speed limits and had similar experience. Realized no one cares about these custom signs.
  - daemonologist 11mo ago
    Yeah it always wigs me out going through those super narrow "55 mph" construction zones on US highways. I'm not in a hurry and want to slow down, but if I did I'd have semis blowing past at 75 which feels even more unsafe. Honestly I think they should put up speed cameras.
    - Tade0 11mo ago
      In my corner of the world it was the workers who demanded section control limiting speed to 70kmph in a segment of highway that was being renovated. Authorities later said that they only went after 30% of the worst offenders, because otherwise the sheer number of tickets would be to high to process in a reasonable timespan. Once word got out that the limit was actually enforced, speeds dropped. Now we have section control on some highways and personally I'm a fan, as I was always going around the speed limit anyway.
      - bluGill 11mo ago
        What do you mean by "section control"? A did a quick search and founds lots of possibilities but none that seem to apply to construction zone speed control.
        Tade0 11mo ago
toast0 11mo ago
> Waymo was a better experience in every single way. One of the Lyfts i was in drove on the shoulder for a while like it was a lane. These sentances conflict. I recently took a taxi from JFK to Manhattan during rush hour, and I estimate if the driver didn't use all of the paved surface, it would have taken at least 10 more minutes to arrive. (And it wouldn't have been an authentic NYC experience) It's ok if you prefer the Waymo experience, and if you find it a better experience overall, but if a human driver saves you time, the Waymo wasn't better in every single way. I am assuming the Lyft driver used the shoulder effectively. My experience with Lyft+Uber has been hit or miss... Some drivers are like traditional taxi drivers: it's an exciting ride because the driver knows the capabilities of their vehicle and uses them and they navigate obstacles within inches; some drivers are the opposite, it's an exciting ride because it feels like Star Tours (is this your first time? well, it's mine too) and they're using your ride to find the capabilities of their vehicle. The first type of driver is likely to use the shoulder effectively, and the second not so much.
- QuercusMax 11mo ago
  You want your cab driver to drive on the shoulder and break the law? What?
  - CPLX 11mo ago
    You may want to become aware of the existence of New York City. It's a pretty interesting place.
    - QuercusMax 11mo ago
      Yeah, that sounds like NYC nonsense. I assume it's still illegal to drive on the shoulder in New York.
      - CPLX 11mo ago
        Perhaps. But if you have a taxi or car service driver who's not willing to ever break any traffic laws in New York, you will not arrive at your destination in anything approaching a reasonable amount of time. For example, getting at the back of the line for an exit rather than trying to go to the front and cut your way in could be a multi-hour mistake.
LZ_Khan 11mo ago
Waymo is overly conservative last time I checked. Driving the speed limit basically means getting to your destination twice as slow.
- lo_zamoyski 11mo ago
  You realize it's technically illegal to drive faster than the speed limit, right? In the eyes of the law, it's doesn't matter whether everyone else is doing it or not.
  - throwup238 11mo ago
    It’s more complicated than that because several (most?) states have contradictory laws about impeding traffic. It can technically be illegal to drive at (or below) the speed limit because it creates an unsafe environment for all the other cars on the road that are driving faster, even if they’re all breaking the legal speed limit. It’s not a viable defense if you get a ticket for speeding but in practice the speed limit is really the prevailing speed of traffic plus X mph, where X adjusted for the state. I.e. in my experience Texas is more strict about the speed limit even on their desolate highways, LA is about 10 mph faster than San Francisco, in Seattle it depends on the weather, you’ll never hit the speed limit in New York anyway, and in Florida you just say the gator ate the officer who pulled you over.
    - mikestew 11mo ago
      It’s more complicated than that because several (most?) states have contradictory laws about impeding traffic. No they don’t, you’ve misinterpreted what was written. “Not impeding traffic” is not codified as “exceed the speed limit if everyone else is, or get a ticket”. Or perhaps you have a documented counter-example.
      - throwup238 11mo ago
        I don’t know what you mean by “documented” but here is Georgia: > No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation. [1] Versus California: > No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, _or in compliance with law_. [2] (underscore emphasis mine) It’s part of the Uniform Vehicle Code but each state has its quirks in how they adopt it since theres no federal mandate. My apologies though, this seems way less common than I thought. As far as I can tell Georgia and Oregon are the only two states left that don’t have that compliance exception. On the other hand “in compliance with law” is it’s own barrel of monkeys because it doesn’t specify priority. [1] https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/title-40/chapter-6/article-9/section-40-6-184/ https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/title-40/chapter-6/arti... [2] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=22400.&lawCode=VEH https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...
nradov 11mo ago
Waymo cars are also more likely to be properly maintained. I've noticed that a lot of Uber / Lyft cars have some kind of warning light on the dashboard: check engine, low tire pressure, overdue for service.
- ang_cire 11mo ago
  Waymo cars are new. Wait until their fleets are 10+ years old. They'll have all the same bad maintenance issues that airplanes, semis, rental cars, and any other company-owned vehicles have.
  - nradov 11mo ago
    Really? I fly a lot and Part 121 commercial airliners seem to be pretty well maintained.
    - SoftTalker 11mo ago
      Very few airliners depart in perfect working order. There is a "MEL" (minimum equipment list) that details which systems can be inop and still operate the flight.
      - nradov 11mo ago
        None of that stuff really impacts safety. They're not leaving the gate with under inflated tires or expired engine oil.
      - tialaramex 11mo ago
        Sure, however that's why there's a minimum. The problem is that lots of GA aeroplanes aren't that well maintained. People aren't on the whole suicidal, they're not going to go up in a plane they expect to kill them, but they absolutely will push their luck in privately owned planes and statistically that doesn't end well. Go see the figures for yourself, inadequate maintenance isn't first on the list for why GA crash rates are too high, but it's on there.
FuckButtons 11mo ago
They’re a good experience, but consider, the other day I took an uber in sf with a gay taxi driver who sang along to the Tina turner he had on full blast, told me I was fabulous and almost caused a crash at a 4 way stop. 5 stars. No notes.
- Greed 11mo ago
  Absolutely. The value proposition for me with rideshare services has ALWAYS been the conversations and experiences you get to have with a diverse cross section of humanity. I'd take the bus / train otherwise.
mmmlinux 11mo ago
I also just wanted to mention one other nice thing about the way Waymo worked vs other ride share apps. as soon as you open the app, it tells you how long till you'll be picked up. even before you tell it where you're going. no waiting for some driver to choose your slightly out of the way trip for them. a car just shows up when its supposed to, to take you where you want to go.
dec0dedab0de 11mo ago
I feel like I won the lottery whenever I have an aggressive driver that knows the city well. It makes me wonder if breaking the law will be the main value proposition of human drivers at some point.
- bugufu8f83 11mo ago
  We have very different value systems, is the politest way I would react to this. Aggressive drivers suck for everyone else on the road and when I ride with one I feel like I've lost something, not won something.
- jimmydddd 11mo ago
  In NY city, I've noticed that taxi drivers will get agressive when we are stuck in traffic. They will start honking, yelling, or changing from one almost stopped lane to another almost stopped lane. I always thought it was theatrical, to show me that they were trying hard, and not just letting the fee increase while they sat stopped in traffic.
  - o_____________o 11mo ago
    I think this is too much credit given for emotional labor. NY has an intrusive din and these people live in their cars all day. They evolve toward chronic irritation alleviated with impotent shows of force.
- netsharc 11mo ago
  That is dumb. Go to a developing country and see what happens when everyone is aggressive. Everyone cuts off everyone else and drivers brake a lot (none of this waiting for a gap before entering from a side street, for example, the understanding is they'll brake for you). The end result is much more slower traffic.
  - saghm 11mo ago
    I think that's kind of their point; if no one else is being aggressive, than being in the one car driven aggressively might be viewed as an advantage. A more civic mindset might prefer a driver doesn't try to take advantage of this because of how it might affect others and a pragmatist might be concerned with the potential to influence others to do the same and ruin the status quo, but I think empirically there are a sizeable number of people who would view it as an opportunity rather than something to avoid .
proee 11mo ago
So it might come down to how many "9s" you're comfortable with. The experience is really good 99.999% of the time until it's not, and that "not" could be catastrophic. I suppose the data engineers are quite confident in the 9s.
- timerol 11mo ago
  This also applies to getting in a car with a human driver, or to driving yourself. Or to any other way of getting from point A to point B
- AceJohnny2 11mo ago
  > and that "not" could be catastrophic Any different than with a human taxi driver? It's not about absolute reliability, it's about how well it compares to the alternative, which is human taxi drivers. And the thing is, you don't hear about human car accidents because it's so common that it's not worth making the news.
  - AceJohnny2 11mo ago
    > you don't hear about human car accidents because it's so common that it's not worth making the news. Another very interesting thing about robotaxis is agency and blame. Taxi driver had an accident? Just that driver is suspect. Robotaxi had an accident? They're all suspect.
    - hn8726 11mo ago
      I mean it does make sense though - robo taxis (of one company) are much more homogeneous than any two human drivers could ever be.
- cheschire 11mo ago
  Lyft is 99.99999% with 1.02 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled[0]. Waymo is 100% with zero fatalities. But then again, the Concorde was the safest airplane ever built for nearly 30 years, until its first crash and then it was the most dangerous passenger jet ever with 12.5 fatal events per million flights.[1] Lies, damned lies, and statistics.[2] 0: https://assets.ctfassets.net/vz6nkkbc6q75/3yrO0aP4mPfTTvyaUZHJfJ/f77d145864edc540aa9f7fe530c6bcec/Safety_Transparency_Report_2020-2022.pdf https://assets.ctfassets.net/vz6nkkbc6q75/3yrO0aP4mPfTTvyaUZ... 1: https://www.airsafe.com/journal/issue14.htm https://www.airsafe.com/journal/issue14.htm 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statist...
AtlasBarfed 11mo ago
Oh great! Doing life-threatening activities is now verified by anecdotal evidence. I get there. Basically isn't any laws for corporations anymore, is there any way I can see anything in regards to the safety of this at a statistical level? Where is NHTSA? Oh right, no federal agencies exist anymore except for those that maintain the oligarchy. And I don't give a crap if Uber has really good statistics and studies and evidence. We are talking about one of the least ethical companies in the last 20 years. I want independent Federal testing.
- donut_rider 11mo ago
  You could, you know, just Google it: https://waymo.com/safety/impact/ https://waymo.com/safety/impact/. TLDR ~90% reduction of serious injury compared with human drivers. Now, before you say this peer-reviewed paper is corporate propaganda, all self-driving companies are required by law to disclose accidents they are involved in, whether liable or not, in CA. You could access each raw accident report published by the CA DMV periodically and come up with your own statistics.
  - AtlasBarfed 11mo ago
    Is it from NHTSA with a NHTSA or an auto industry group diving deep into the software and testing its edge cases? No? Yes, it is corporate propaganda. "Peer reviewed" doesn't mean anything if it is SPONSORED BY THE COMPANY. There is peer reviewed studies to kingdom come that are industry sponsored and have plagued our society for at least a century. I AM NOT THE PERSON that should be doing this research. A FEDERAL AGENCY TASKED WITH HIGHWAY SAFETY should be doing it, barring that, the auto insurance industry groups should be doing it. Not a corporate sponsored shill paper.
supportengineer 11mo ago
next fare
quantummagic 11mo ago
I'm surprised by all the uncynical compliments for the service, by so many on this site. We're just in the pre-enshittification days of this service. It's fine to enjoy it now, but it will definitely get worse once all the competition has been put out of business. Please enjoy these mandatory ads while we drive you to your destination...
- asdfman123 11mo ago
  There's no way for this technology not to be funded by multibillion companies, for now at the very least.
  - quantummagic 11mo ago
    Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's praiseworthy, or that we should forget what is inevitably coming along with the deal. Maybe we should be supporting human drivers, rather than dissing them as being less-desirable. That makes the mistake of comparing them with the loss-leader version of these services, not what they will really be when fully unmasked.
  - fragmede 11mo ago
    http://comma.ai http://comma.ai seems to be doing alright, they just announced the new coma four. I tell all of my friends about it and that they should get one, or get a better car that supports it, unless they've got a Tesla. It's not self driving, it's just really really good cruise control.
dzhiurgis 11mo ago
Have you tried Tesla's service? I saw reviews they are much smoother than Waymo.
lacker 11mo ago
I was riding in a Waymo recently and it suddenly braked for no reason at an intersection where it didn't have a stop sign. I was like, what the heck, this Waymo is broken, it didn't see that the stop sign is only two way. Then a little kid on a bike riding along the sidewalk at an angle where I hadn't seen them just barely braked to a halt before riding into the street in front of the Waymo. These things must be saving lives, it's obvious. When my kids are riding their bikes around I want the other cars to be Waymos, not human drivers.
- xnx 11mo ago
  Clip shared by Waymo of it preventing what would have almost certainly been death/serious injury for a human driver: https://x.com/dmitri_dolgov/status/1868778679868047545 https://x.com/dmitri_dolgov/status/1868778679868047545
ZeroGravitas 11mo ago
Is that human vs robo or is it just that one had the enshittification dial turned up earlier? If you were running a private equity robotaxi firm and your bonus relied on 1% more rides wouldn't you be dialing up the aggressive driving? Repeat for a few quarters and the robot will be cutting the same corners that the human is forced to. Some future Fight Club reboot will reference your ChatGPT logs that show you asked how much the corporation would need to pay to the people killed in crashes vs increased profit to find the profit maximising level of dangerous driving.
sharts 11mo ago
Having driven behind waymo vehicles — the experience for everyone outside of that box is pretty terrible. These vehicles very regularly block traffic because they can’t maneuver in congested areas with the finesse of a human driver. Aggressive driving isn’t always bad. Sometimes it’s to unblock others waiting behind you so they can get somewhere they need to be.

prismatix 11mo ago

I had a similar experience. A few months ago, I was in the city for a weekend and took Waymo for most of my rides. The one time I chose to use Lyft/Uber, the driver floored it before we even had a chance to shut the door or get buckled! The rest of the time we took Waymo. I rarely use ride-sharing but other experiences include having been in a FSD Tesla Uber where the driver wasn't paying attention to the road the entire time (hands off the wheel, looking behind him, etc.). I don't know if I trust Waymo cars with my life, but at least there are SOME standards, compared to the natural variance of humans.

Swizec 11mo ago
> I don't know if I trust Waymo cars with my life, but at least there are SOME standards, compared to the natural variance of humans I’ve ridden in a lot of Waymos – 800km I’m told! – and they’re great. The bit that impresses me most is that they drive like a confident city driver. Already in the intersection and it turns red? Floor it out of the way! Light just turned yellow and you don’t have time to stop? Continue calmly. Stuff like that. Saw a lot of other AI cars get flustered and confused in those situations. Humans too. For me I like Waymos because of the consistent social experience. There is none. With drivers they’re usually chatty at all the wrong moments when I’m not in the mood or just want to catch up on emails. Or I’m feeling chatty and the driver is not, it’s rarely a perfect match. With Waymo it’s just a ride.
- astrange 11mo ago
  I did have one drive straight through a big pothole in LA once, and I also felt like it chose extremely boring routes. But neither of those are very surprising. Oh, and it doesn't like to pull into hotel entrances but instead stops randomly on the street outside it.
  - andsoitis 11mo ago
    > and I also felt like it chose extremely boring routes $$ opportunity: pay $10 extra and Waymo will choose more exciting route.
    - kbaker 11mo ago
      I mean, if the scenic route is longer anyways, the revenue potential is there to fund it... just a 'take me the scenic route' checkbox?
    - tgsovlerkhgsel 11mo ago
      Or "pay $10 extra and it'll drive extremely aggressively" (in the acceleration/braking/taking turns at speed sense, i.e. only ways that don't affect safety, not "cutting people off"). The sane default is obviously "boring", as it projects an image of safety and control, is comfortable, and reduces wear on the car... but if the user pays for the wear and wants an uncomfortable ride, why not?
      - socalgal2 11mo ago
        roads are shared resources. As long as it's not breaking any laws then sure but please don't ask it to raise the risks to other people on the road. Just tune out on your phone/tablet/laptop and ignore the boring safer ride.
      - sdenton4 11mo ago
        Maintaining safety across multiple driving "modes" multiplies the complexity of the problem, in a space where safety incidents can shift public opinion of the whole industry. This is a bad idea...
ericmcer 11mo ago
It must be interesting being an Uber driver right now and literally watching the robots that will replace you driving around with you. This has been a 15+ year process and will probably take a few more years. I don't feel too bad if they didn't manage to pivot in that time period.
- pa7ch 11mo ago
  You say the term pivot like its a startup founder who has every option in life. You should feel bad for anyone who would struggle for a basic job.
  - dekhn 11mo ago
    the history of humans on earth has been pivots, even amongst people who had few options. I don't subscribe to feeling guilty every time somebody loses a job. I feel empathy, but telling people to "feel bad" is not constructive.
    - phainopepla2 11mo ago
      "Feel bad for" is not the same as "feel bad". The former is the same as feeling empathy, in colloquial English
    - kannanvijayan 11mo ago
      In a society where having a job is, for that vast majority not in the non-gilded classes, the only mechanism by which a person can secure their core needs.. losing a job is indeed a pitiable situation for most. If we've built a society that when it "pivots" leaves swathes of people smeared out as residual waste, I'd argue we should feel bad. We've certainly reached a point of technological advancement where many of these consequences at the individual level are avoidable. If they're still happening, it's because we've chosen this outcome - perhaps passively. But the clear implication of would be that we're collectively failing ourselves, as a species that tends to put some degree of pride in our intelligence. And we should feel bad about that failure. It's OK to feel bad about that failure. We tend not to improve things we don't feel bad about.
Lammy 11mo ago
> I don't know if I trust Waymo cars with my life, but at least there are SOME standards, compared to the natural variance of humans. The one thing you can trust Waymo to do is spy on you. Hurray, more surveillance-on-wheels! Every one of these things has 29 visible-light cameras, 5 LIDARs, 4 RADARs, and is using four H100s to process all of its realtime imagery of you: https://thelastdriverlicenseholder.com/2024/10/27/waymos-5-6-billion-round-and-details-of-the-ai-used/ https://thelastdriverlicenseholder.com/2024/10/27/waymos-5-6...
- blibble 11mo ago
  if there's 4 H100s in there, that's effectively a gold bar in terms of value just sitting there in a vehicle that is unmanned and unguarded, which anyone can summon to a dodgy warehouse what do you think will happen once this becomes public knowledge?
  - Lammy 11mo ago
    Four H100s in an Alphabet datacenter somewhere, obviously.
vdupras 11mo ago
> A few months ago, I was in the city for a weekend and took Waymo for most of my rides. > [...] > I don't know if I trust Waymo cars with my life [...] I'm sorry to be that guy, but didn't you already?

holler 11mo ago

I had my first waymo ride in Austin recently and it suddenly slowed down to 20mph in 40mph zone for 5+ mins before returning to normal speed. Cars were passing around us and it felt like the car was glitching out, which felt very sketchy.

vjerancrnjak 11mo ago
I was doing this a lot in US whenever I’d see construction work speed limits and had similar experience. Realized no one cares about these custom signs.
- daemonologist 11mo ago
  Yeah it always wigs me out going through those super narrow "55 mph" construction zones on US highways. I'm not in a hurry and want to slow down, but if I did I'd have semis blowing past at 75 which feels even more unsafe. Honestly I think they should put up speed cameras.
  - Tade0 11mo ago
    In my corner of the world it was the workers who demanded section control limiting speed to 70kmph in a segment of highway that was being renovated. Authorities later said that they only went after 30% of the worst offenders, because otherwise the sheer number of tickets would be to high to process in a reasonable timespan. Once word got out that the limit was actually enforced, speeds dropped. Now we have section control on some highways and personally I'm a fan, as I was always going around the speed limit anyway.
    - bluGill 11mo ago
      What do you mean by "section control"? A did a quick search and founds lots of possibilities but none that seem to apply to construction zone speed control.
      - Tade0 11mo ago

toast0 11mo ago

> Waymo was a better experience in every single way. One of the Lyfts i was in drove on the shoulder for a while like it was a lane. These sentances conflict. I recently took a taxi from JFK to Manhattan during rush hour, and I estimate if the driver didn't use all of the paved surface, it would have taken at least 10 more minutes to arrive. (And it wouldn't have been an authentic NYC experience) It's ok if you prefer the Waymo experience, and if you find it a better experience overall, but if a human driver saves you time, the Waymo wasn't better in every single way. I am assuming the Lyft driver used the shoulder effectively. My experience with Lyft+Uber has been hit or miss... Some drivers are like traditional taxi drivers: it's an exciting ride because the driver knows the capabilities of their vehicle and uses them and they navigate obstacles within inches; some drivers are the opposite, it's an exciting ride because it feels like Star Tours (is this your first time? well, it's mine too) and they're using your ride to find the capabilities of their vehicle. The first type of driver is likely to use the shoulder effectively, and the second not so much.

QuercusMax 11mo ago
You want your cab driver to drive on the shoulder and break the law? What?
- CPLX 11mo ago
  You may want to become aware of the existence of New York City. It's a pretty interesting place.
  - QuercusMax 11mo ago
    Yeah, that sounds like NYC nonsense. I assume it's still illegal to drive on the shoulder in New York.
    - CPLX 11mo ago
      Perhaps. But if you have a taxi or car service driver who's not willing to ever break any traffic laws in New York, you will not arrive at your destination in anything approaching a reasonable amount of time. For example, getting at the back of the line for an exit rather than trying to go to the front and cut your way in could be a multi-hour mistake.

LZ_Khan 11mo ago

Waymo is overly conservative last time I checked. Driving the speed limit basically means getting to your destination twice as slow.

lo_zamoyski 11mo ago
You realize it's technically illegal to drive faster than the speed limit, right? In the eyes of the law, it's doesn't matter whether everyone else is doing it or not.
- throwup238 11mo ago
  It’s more complicated than that because several (most?) states have contradictory laws about impeding traffic. It can technically be illegal to drive at (or below) the speed limit because it creates an unsafe environment for all the other cars on the road that are driving faster, even if they’re all breaking the legal speed limit. It’s not a viable defense if you get a ticket for speeding but in practice the speed limit is really the prevailing speed of traffic plus X mph, where X adjusted for the state. I.e. in my experience Texas is more strict about the speed limit even on their desolate highways, LA is about 10 mph faster than San Francisco, in Seattle it depends on the weather, you’ll never hit the speed limit in New York anyway, and in Florida you just say the gator ate the officer who pulled you over.
  - mikestew 11mo ago
    It’s more complicated than that because several (most?) states have contradictory laws about impeding traffic. No they don’t, you’ve misinterpreted what was written. “Not impeding traffic” is not codified as “exceed the speed limit if everyone else is, or get a ticket”. Or perhaps you have a documented counter-example.
    - throwup238 11mo ago
      I don’t know what you mean by “documented” but here is Georgia: > No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation. [1] Versus California: > No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, _or in compliance with law_. [2] (underscore emphasis mine) It’s part of the Uniform Vehicle Code but each state has its quirks in how they adopt it since theres no federal mandate. My apologies though, this seems way less common than I thought. As far as I can tell Georgia and Oregon are the only two states left that don’t have that compliance exception. On the other hand “in compliance with law” is it’s own barrel of monkeys because it doesn’t specify priority. [1] https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/title-40/chapter-6/article-9/section-40-6-184/ https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/title-40/chapter-6/arti... [2] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=22400.&lawCode=VEH https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...

nradov 11mo ago

Waymo cars are also more likely to be properly maintained. I've noticed that a lot of Uber / Lyft cars have some kind of warning light on the dashboard: check engine, low tire pressure, overdue for service.

ang_cire 11mo ago
Waymo cars are new. Wait until their fleets are 10+ years old. They'll have all the same bad maintenance issues that airplanes, semis, rental cars, and any other company-owned vehicles have.
- nradov 11mo ago
  Really? I fly a lot and Part 121 commercial airliners seem to be pretty well maintained.
  - SoftTalker 11mo ago
    Very few airliners depart in perfect working order. There is a "MEL" (minimum equipment list) that details which systems can be inop and still operate the flight.
    - nradov 11mo ago
      None of that stuff really impacts safety. They're not leaving the gate with under inflated tires or expired engine oil.
    - tialaramex 11mo ago
      Sure, however that's why there's a minimum. The problem is that lots of GA aeroplanes aren't that well maintained. People aren't on the whole suicidal, they're not going to go up in a plane they expect to kill them, but they absolutely will push their luck in privately owned planes and statistically that doesn't end well. Go see the figures for yourself, inadequate maintenance isn't first on the list for why GA crash rates are too high, but it's on there.

FuckButtons 11mo ago

They’re a good experience, but consider, the other day I took an uber in sf with a gay taxi driver who sang along to the Tina turner he had on full blast, told me I was fabulous and almost caused a crash at a 4 way stop. 5 stars. No notes.

Greed 11mo ago
Absolutely. The value proposition for me with rideshare services has ALWAYS been the conversations and experiences you get to have with a diverse cross section of humanity. I'd take the bus / train otherwise.

mmmlinux 11mo ago

I also just wanted to mention one other nice thing about the way Waymo worked vs other ride share apps. as soon as you open the app, it tells you how long till you'll be picked up. even before you tell it where you're going. no waiting for some driver to choose your slightly out of the way trip for them. a car just shows up when its supposed to, to take you where you want to go.

dec0dedab0de 11mo ago

I feel like I won the lottery whenever I have an aggressive driver that knows the city well. It makes me wonder if breaking the law will be the main value proposition of human drivers at some point.

bugufu8f83 11mo ago
We have very different value systems, is the politest way I would react to this. Aggressive drivers suck for everyone else on the road and when I ride with one I feel like I've lost something, not won something.
jimmydddd 11mo ago
In NY city, I've noticed that taxi drivers will get agressive when we are stuck in traffic. They will start honking, yelling, or changing from one almost stopped lane to another almost stopped lane. I always thought it was theatrical, to show me that they were trying hard, and not just letting the fee increase while they sat stopped in traffic.
- o_____________o 11mo ago
  I think this is too much credit given for emotional labor. NY has an intrusive din and these people live in their cars all day. They evolve toward chronic irritation alleviated with impotent shows of force.
netsharc 11mo ago
That is dumb. Go to a developing country and see what happens when everyone is aggressive. Everyone cuts off everyone else and drivers brake a lot (none of this waiting for a gap before entering from a side street, for example, the understanding is they'll brake for you). The end result is much more slower traffic.
- saghm 11mo ago
  I think that's kind of their point; if no one else is being aggressive, than being in the one car driven aggressively might be viewed as an advantage. A more civic mindset might prefer a driver doesn't try to take advantage of this because of how it might affect others and a pragmatist might be concerned with the potential to influence others to do the same and ruin the status quo, but I think empirically there are a sizeable number of people who would view it as an opportunity rather than something to avoid .

proee 11mo ago

So it might come down to how many "9s" you're comfortable with. The experience is really good 99.999% of the time until it's not, and that "not" could be catastrophic. I suppose the data engineers are quite confident in the 9s.

timerol 11mo ago
This also applies to getting in a car with a human driver, or to driving yourself. Or to any other way of getting from point A to point B
AceJohnny2 11mo ago
> and that "not" could be catastrophic Any different than with a human taxi driver? It's not about absolute reliability, it's about how well it compares to the alternative, which is human taxi drivers. And the thing is, you don't hear about human car accidents because it's so common that it's not worth making the news.
- AceJohnny2 11mo ago
  > you don't hear about human car accidents because it's so common that it's not worth making the news. Another very interesting thing about robotaxis is agency and blame. Taxi driver had an accident? Just that driver is suspect. Robotaxi had an accident? They're all suspect.
  - hn8726 11mo ago
    I mean it does make sense though - robo taxis (of one company) are much more homogeneous than any two human drivers could ever be.
cheschire 11mo ago
Lyft is 99.99999% with 1.02 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled[0]. Waymo is 100% with zero fatalities. But then again, the Concorde was the safest airplane ever built for nearly 30 years, until its first crash and then it was the most dangerous passenger jet ever with 12.5 fatal events per million flights.[1] Lies, damned lies, and statistics.[2] 0: https://assets.ctfassets.net/vz6nkkbc6q75/3yrO0aP4mPfTTvyaUZHJfJ/f77d145864edc540aa9f7fe530c6bcec/Safety_Transparency_Report_2020-2022.pdf https://assets.ctfassets.net/vz6nkkbc6q75/3yrO0aP4mPfTTvyaUZ... 1: https://www.airsafe.com/journal/issue14.htm https://www.airsafe.com/journal/issue14.htm 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statist...

AtlasBarfed 11mo ago

Oh great! Doing life-threatening activities is now verified by anecdotal evidence. I get there. Basically isn't any laws for corporations anymore, is there any way I can see anything in regards to the safety of this at a statistical level? Where is NHTSA? Oh right, no federal agencies exist anymore except for those that maintain the oligarchy. And I don't give a crap if Uber has really good statistics and studies and evidence. We are talking about one of the least ethical companies in the last 20 years. I want independent Federal testing.

donut_rider 11mo ago
You could, you know, just Google it: https://waymo.com/safety/impact/ https://waymo.com/safety/impact/. TLDR ~90% reduction of serious injury compared with human drivers. Now, before you say this peer-reviewed paper is corporate propaganda, all self-driving companies are required by law to disclose accidents they are involved in, whether liable or not, in CA. You could access each raw accident report published by the CA DMV periodically and come up with your own statistics.
- AtlasBarfed 11mo ago
  Is it from NHTSA with a NHTSA or an auto industry group diving deep into the software and testing its edge cases? No? Yes, it is corporate propaganda. "Peer reviewed" doesn't mean anything if it is SPONSORED BY THE COMPANY. There is peer reviewed studies to kingdom come that are industry sponsored and have plagued our society for at least a century. I AM NOT THE PERSON that should be doing this research. A FEDERAL AGENCY TASKED WITH HIGHWAY SAFETY should be doing it, barring that, the auto insurance industry groups should be doing it. Not a corporate sponsored shill paper.

supportengineer 11mo ago

next fare

quantummagic 11mo ago

I'm surprised by all the uncynical compliments for the service, by so many on this site. We're just in the pre-enshittification days of this service. It's fine to enjoy it now, but it will definitely get worse once all the competition has been put out of business. Please enjoy these mandatory ads while we drive you to your destination...

asdfman123 11mo ago
There's no way for this technology not to be funded by multibillion companies, for now at the very least.
- quantummagic 11mo ago
  Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's praiseworthy, or that we should forget what is inevitably coming along with the deal. Maybe we should be supporting human drivers, rather than dissing them as being less-desirable. That makes the mistake of comparing them with the loss-leader version of these services, not what they will really be when fully unmasked.
- fragmede 11mo ago
  http://comma.ai http://comma.ai seems to be doing alright, they just announced the new coma four. I tell all of my friends about it and that they should get one, or get a better car that supports it, unless they've got a Tesla. It's not self driving, it's just really really good cruise control.

dzhiurgis 11mo ago

Have you tried Tesla's service? I saw reviews they are much smoother than Waymo.

lacker 11mo ago

I was riding in a Waymo recently and it suddenly braked for no reason at an intersection where it didn't have a stop sign. I was like, what the heck, this Waymo is broken, it didn't see that the stop sign is only two way. Then a little kid on a bike riding along the sidewalk at an angle where I hadn't seen them just barely braked to a halt before riding into the street in front of the Waymo. These things must be saving lives, it's obvious. When my kids are riding their bikes around I want the other cars to be Waymos, not human drivers.

xnx 11mo ago
Clip shared by Waymo of it preventing what would have almost certainly been death/serious injury for a human driver: https://x.com/dmitri_dolgov/status/1868778679868047545 https://x.com/dmitri_dolgov/status/1868778679868047545

ZeroGravitas 11mo ago

Is that human vs robo or is it just that one had the enshittification dial turned up earlier? If you were running a private equity robotaxi firm and your bonus relied on 1% more rides wouldn't you be dialing up the aggressive driving? Repeat for a few quarters and the robot will be cutting the same corners that the human is forced to. Some future Fight Club reboot will reference your ChatGPT logs that show you asked how much the corporation would need to pay to the people killed in crashes vs increased profit to find the profit maximising level of dangerous driving.

sharts 11mo ago

Having driven behind waymo vehicles — the experience for everyone outside of that box is pretty terrible. These vehicles very regularly block traffic because they can’t maneuver in congested areas with the finesse of a human driver. Aggressive driving isn’t always bad. Sometimes it’s to unblock others waiting behind you so they can get somewhere they need to be.