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Denmark reportedly withdraws Chat Control proposal following controversy
- verdverm 1y agorelevant south park clip? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGQS1AZus7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGQS1AZus7E
- jameslk 1y agoMore generally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RybNI0KB1bg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RybNI0KB1bg
- actionfromafar 1y agoLennart Betrayer - CEO :-D
- laxd 1y agoLet's rebrand and try again!
- theturtle 1y ago[dead]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- FinnKuhn 1y ago> The last chance for an agreement under Danish leadership is in December; the government in Copenhagen apparently preferred a compromise without chat control to no agreement at all. The current regulation, which allows the large platform providers to voluntarily and actively search for potential depictions of abuse, expires next spring after extension. It is precisely this voluntariness that Denmark's Minister of Justice now wants to codify within the framework of the future CSA regulation, which also contains a multitude of other, less controversial projects. [1] Doesn't sound like it is over yet - only delayed. [1] https://www.heise.de/en/news/Denmark-surprisingly-abandons-plans-for-chat-control-10965249.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/Denmark-surprisingly-abandons-p...
- stavros 1y agoAs always...
- zigzagger11 1y agoThat's why sites like this are so powerful. They can bring it back, and we can restart the email bombardment at any time. This is such a hugely superior approach to the traditional single signer petition or mailing campaign. I think to should be studied by citizens groups worldwide.
- tavavex 1y ago> This is such a hugely superior approach to the traditional single signer petition or mailing campaign. I think to should be studied by citizens groups worldwide. Why would mass-emailing be effective, though? This one instance strikes me as the exception, not the rule, especially in a world where I see calls to write to your local government all the time (and basically none of it results in anything) It costs them nothing to ignore emails. There's nothing on your end of the argument to use as leverage. It doesn't put any barriers to just right click->deleting the emails, or answering with something akin to "Thanks for your concern, but this isn't about you and we know better than you, so please stay out of it", just worded in a vaguer and more polite way.
- zigzagger11 1y agoMass emailing is effective because it's en masse. Hence the success in this situation. The things you're citing are the opposite of this approach.
- tavavex 1y agoBoth things I'm citing can work on a large scale with some effort, through the power of mass-deletion and auto-replying. I'm just not seeing how pushing some text towards a government representative compels them to act at all, especially when money and power are what's on the other end of the scale.
- bobsmooth 1y agoWithdraws it for now.
- ginko 1y agoDid they apologize for proposing it in the first place?
- pajamasam 1y agoThey’re just withdrawing it “for now” and not making it “mandatory.” They will try to find a different route.
- honkostani 1y agoIts like a ocean wave, crashing against the cliff, year in, year out, proposal after proposal, waiting for that final atrocity, justifying pushing it through. The white cliffs of Dover, with no plan on how to regain one day that land, once the crisis subsides. And no mechanism to prevent a permanent crisis, because the controls justify the manufacturing of endless crisis.
- layer8 1y agoWell, we do have the ECJ as a corrective: https://ccdcoe.org/incyder-articles/eu-data-retention-directive-invalid/ https://ccdcoe.org/incyder-articles/eu-data-retention-direct...
- St0n3d 1y agoUnfortunately the ECJ’s orders aren’t strictly followed and they recently pretty much indicated they could support an atrocious law like ProtectEU. Perhaps to save face.
- layer8 1y agoCourts are always the last line of defense, there is no way of avoiding that. Rights are never absolute, but have to be balanced against each other, and the courts are the arbiter of that. Aside from that, raising public awareness like the Chat Control initiative did is the way to go. And voting in the EU Parliament elections.
- wkat4242 1y agoYes it is the way to go but politicians get fatigued because they keep pushing the same thing so often. Also the lobbyists have big bags of money to throw at it.
- honkostani 1y agoIf you do not tax cooperate income away, or at least force them by law to bind it in investments, it will attack the surrounding containment vessel of laws and culture.
- tokai 1y agoIt's interesting that Peter Hummelgaard's former party comrade Henrik Sass Larsen recently got 4 months of prison for possession of child porn; 6200 pictures and 2200 videos. So we are to believe Hummelgaard wants to protect children by enabling vast surveillance, so all the bad offenders out there can get ... 4 months in prison. Its not really adding up. And he still hasn't presented any argument for the thing except that you are pro child abuse if you don't agree with him. I'm at the point where I hope he's corrupt and its not just all about power for him.
- zigzagger11 1y agoIs that out of line with similar offenses in Denmark?
- hsbauauvhabzb 1y agoI’m not sure how punishments are calculated, but surely a former politician pedophile remains dangerous - even if they don’t abuse children directly they will have residual power that they can use to harm children. Or maybe the low sentence is because of his existing power.
- tokai 1y agoIts just not that illegal in Denmark. Something I would think minister of justice Hummelgaard should spend his time working on first, before pushing mass surveillance at the european level.
- burnerzzzzz 1y agoThe judge noted that given the publicity of the case, Henriks true penalty would be living in a country of 6 million people that all know his face and that he is a pedophile. You don’t have to worry about him doing anything in Politics again. This isn’t the US after all…
- mrweasel 1y agoLast I read he's leaving the country and moving to Portugal.
- martini333 1y agoDoes anyone know if the "Borgerforslag" had an impact? https://www.borgerforslag.dk/se-og-stoet-forslag/?Id=FT-21156 https://www.borgerforslag.dk/se-og-stoet-forslag/?Id=FT-2115... https://www.ft.dk/da/aktuelt/nyheder/2025/09/borgerforslag-nej-til-eu-masseovervaagning https://www.ft.dk/da/aktuelt/nyheder/2025/09/borgerforslag-n...
- tokai 1y agoConsideration of the proposal was moved to the 25th of November. So no it didn't reach a point where it could have any impact. I don't remember a single borgerforslag managing to have any impact though. Even if they made it to parliament in time.
- stinkbeetle 1y agoIf I was a conspiracy theorist I might think that the ruling class who so desperately want these kinds of powers are intentionally dividing nations and breaking down social cohesion so the populace must turn to the governments for protection. They're hoping to create societies where the people will beg them to scan private messages rather than to demand rights. Give it another 10 years the way things are going, and I'm sure it will be back.
- lysace 1y agoIn practice it's a combination of: a) wanting to soon expand this scheme to catch criminal gang communication (violent narco-related crime is exploding in e.g. some northern EU countries) [center-right goal] b) wanting to make people more nervous about what they post online (immigration vs crime etc is a hot topic that many want to cool down). [center-left goal] I suppose that there might also be some naive idealists that primarily care about the stated goal.
- stinkbeetle 1y agoIn practice it is entirely about wanting to expand the power of the state and cement its supremacy over the rights of the individual. Those other things are a means to this end. They would be extremely happy for there to be more crime and more unrest about immigration if it meant they could seize powers like these.
- lysace 1y ago> They would be extremely happy for there to be more crime and more unrest about immigration if it meant they could seize powers like these. What country is this? Sounds really bad.
- stinkbeetle 1y agoWhat country is where the state's primary purpose is to perpetuate the power of the state, and where the ruling class desperately want to take more power and rights from the people? Lots of them. Denmark, for one.
- zigzagger11 1y ago[flagged]
- zero0529 1y agoI don’t trust Peter Hummelgaard at all. The way he is pushing for this law seems suspicious and I am wondering if there is a third party nudging him to pursue it. Maybe promising some position in the EU parlament.
- Grikbdl 1y agoHis own party has a history of totalitarian initiatives. This is the "surveillance is freedom" party. He was surely getting pressured, but from within.
- ranger_danger 1y agoWhy does the government think it is their job to save people from themselves in the first place?
- johnisgood 1y agoThe weird thing is that even many people (citizens) believe this.
- hoppp 1y agoGood. I was tired of it. Denmark is a great place to live but chat control wtf
- ineedasername 1y agoI’m continually astounded that so many people, faced with a societal problem, reflexively turn to “Hmmm, perhaps if we monitored and read and listened to every single thing that every person does, all of the time…” As though it would 1) be a practical possibility and 2) be effective. Compounding the issue is that the more technology can solve #1, the more these people fixate on it as the solution without regards to the lack of #2. I wish there were a way, once and for all, to prevent this ridiculous idea from taking hold over and over again. If I could get a hold of such people when these ideas were in their infancy… perhaps I should monitor everything everyone does and watch for people considering the same as a solution to their problem… ah well, no, still don’t see how that follows logically as a reasonable solution.
- KurSix 1y agoIt's like surveillance logic eats itself in the end. What really gets me is how often these proposals skip over the part where we ask whether they actually work
- usernomdeguerre 1y agoThe issue is that there is a place where this model ~is working. It's in China and Russia. The GFW, its Russian equivalent, and the national security laws binding all of their tech companies and public discussion do exactly these things in a way that has allowed their leadership to go unchallenged for decades now. The rest of the world isn't stupid or silly for suggesting these policies. They're following a proven effective model for the outcomes they are looking for. We do ourselves a disservice by acting like there is some inherent flaw in it.
- sureglymop 1y agoHow ~is it working there though? Is there less CSAM going around in these places?
- deaux 1y agoLiterally the end of the same sentence says how it's working: > do exactly these things in a way that has allowed their leadership to go unchallenged for decades now.
- unit149 1y ago[dead]
- kragen 1y agoFor now. It will return unless we end the careers of the politicians who were grasping for such absolute surveillance powers.
- burnerzzzzz 1y agoHN is being affected by the American love of conspiracy once more. In reality: Danes trust their state - for good reason. But this is obviously taking it too far. Its not that Peter Hummelgaard is trying to create a spy state. He just doesn’t understand tech. Simple as that.
- Argonaut998 1y agoIf you are so sure about that why wouldn’t they make it a domestic law instead of an EU wide law? I’m not American nor Danish and I certainly do not trust my government. Kind of naive - no one should trust their government in this day and age. It’s also convenient that Denmark is essentially the US’ eyes and ears in Europe, who even spied on other nations for them.
- burnerzzzzz 1y agoHaving a largely non corrupt government that enjoys the trust of the general population yields benefits on all levels of society. Its a big part of the reason these countries are the happiest and healthiest.
- BSDobelix 1y ago>Danes trust their state - for good reason >>Nordic Waste is owned by the family of Torben Østergaard-Nielsen, reported to be the sixth richest person in Denmark. Last week, the Danish Ministry of the Environment issued an injunction against Nordic waste, and yesterday (22 January 2024) the company was declared bankrupt. The company has declared that this ends Nordic Waste’s liabilities. https://eos.org/thelandslideblog/nordic-waste-1 https://eos.org/thelandslideblog/nordic-waste-1 Blind trust always gets betrayed, and all the Scandinavian countries have closed their eyes for too long; I want Olof Palme back. >Its not that Peter Hummelgaard is trying to create a spy state. He just doesn’t understand tech. Oh nooo that poor little guy, cant even think 5 minutes into the future, he's 42 not 80.
- codingbot3000 1y agoOlof Palme? The socialist who squeezed tax payers out like lemons, and a bit more?
- KurSix 1y agoProtecting children is critically important, but turning every citizen into a potential suspect by default? That's not justice, that’s just lazy policy design. Honestly, this feels like one of those rare moments where political pressure and public backlash actually worked...
- tomasphan 1y ago“Protecting children” is a red herring anyway. It’s never actually about the children, as they are more protected than ever and statistically it’s the safest ever in human history. I’d actually argue that children need less protection and more freedom.
- aljgz 1y agoFrom first person experience, once a society creates a surveillance state, to protect whatever, an inevitable avalanche starts. A new game will emerge in which the best players are the ones who excel at finding secrets of others and use them as leverage. We had a president on national TV threating a challenging candidate that he will reveal their secrets... Think about that for a moment and you'll find so many wrong things that this implicitly admits to. The disease was a blessing compared to the complications of the cure. Nations like to hope things won't happen to them.
- notepad0x90 1y agoCare to provide an example? Just trying to be objective. Historically, nearly all states have been surveillance states (including early America). all that has changed in the last ~30 years is technology (capability), and public attitude. Mail snooping has been around as long as mail has been around. Warrantless wiretaps on telphone lines were around in just about every country that started having telephones, including the US. AT&T's NSA listening room (the company that invented telephones) isn't unique or special. Book ciphers were invented because snooping courier's messages was so common. The NSA didn't build a Yottabyte-scale datacenter for no reason either. I'm not disagreeing with your view, I'm just saying that the anti-surveillance sentiment is particularly unique to the cultural "West", and to the post-WW2 generations.
- bratwurst3000 1y agofor example ones porn history could be used against that person if he she wants to go for public office. So there is a chilling effect for watching porn. Politics are dirty allready but the way down is deep.
- notepad0x90 1y agoMaybe they should "own it" instead? I don't think these days legal porn use would be all that harmful. but i don't disagree with your point. But look at it this way, surveillance already exists, all major governments are hacking into people's phone and spying on them, and forcing telco's to do dragnet surveillance. chat control is about doing it at a greater scale and formalizing it for normal law enforcement use instead of things like counter-terrorism.
- bratwurst3000 1y agowhat people dont get about mass surveilance is that big systeme are easy corrupted. for example if I want privat data about peoplw from police or assurance or state office there is a way to get them with money and connections. So if mass surveilance is implemented it would be missused for personal benefit of whoever has the money and the possibility
- Weloveall 1y agoIn Denmark our government don't know shit about anything else. One day they say one thing and next day another.
- zigzagger11 1y agoI was flagged (bizarrely) because I was asking for help in propagating another website like this for similar ends. Joachim however reached out to me. he's working on an open-source model of his website.