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We're still moving thousands of pounds of vehicle around a public highway to carry a 1lb burrito, obviously lightweight aerial drones are the future for food an
by Footnote7341 1y ago
We're still moving thousands of pounds of vehicle around a public highway to carry a 1lb burrito, obviously lightweight aerial drones are the future for food and grocery delivery.
- ElijahLynn 1y agoMark Rober showed a version that was very quiet. Somebody figured out how to make a different propeller design that greatly minimized the noise. I'm interested to see if this could actually be feasible and make for very quiet services.
- ponector 1y agoIf it is feasible, we'll see such propellers on FPV kamikaze drone first.
- gpm 1y agoFPV missiles have little interest in keeping the area around them a pleasant environment to live in, and are disposable one time use items. I suspect drone delivery places a higher premium on lowering noise pollution.
- walterbell 1y ago> little interest in keeping the area around them a pleasant environment to live in Some interest in reducing evasive maneuvers or counter-attacks triggered by noise.
- incognito124 1y agoYou mean the toroidal propellers?
- dataflow 1y agoIt takes more energy to stay in the air, so I imagine it depends what weight and distance you're carrying.
- spankalee 1y agoUnless you're cooking at home, you'd still move thousands of pounds of vehicle to drive to the restaurant, so I'm not sure that food delivery is really any worse. It could be a lot better if multiple deliveries are handled per trip.
- ajkjk 1y agobest case scenario is walkable neighborhoods with lots of little tasty restaurants at affordable prices around the corner from everybody. We've got a long way to go on actually building out our own country in a desirable way.
- zonotope 1y agoThis is the correct answer. There are a few pockets in the USA where this is the case like parts of the Boston and New York metro area, but you have be flexible with your definition of "affordable". And that's the point. These places are less than affordable because there's a much higher demand of people who want to live in these kinds of areas than the supply of them. We should build more!
- sp4cec0wb0y 1y agoNice to see someone here with their head on straight.
- spankalee 1y agoYes, and I completely agree with this, but the comparison for this type of food delivery should be apples-to-apples. If you live in a very walkable place, you're less likely to use delivery and when you do it's more likely to be someone on a bike or scooter. Waymo's probably don't apply there. The comparison would be walking vs delivery, and that would obviously come out bad for delivery. If you don't live in a walkable place then the comparison is you driving vs the delivery driving, and that's a wash or even positive for delivery. The induced demand of delivery vs cooking at home (assuming you grocery shop for the week) would be very bad for delivery though.
- deleted 1y ago
- BurningFrog 1y agoThat's the distant future. Many bureaucratic and technical dragons to slay. Meanwhile, driverless taxis should normally be lightweight two seaters.
- segmondy 1y ago... and then we have millions of drones up in the sky to carry a 1lb burrito, obviously a robot that can make the burrito for you at home is the future.
- walterbell 1y ago> make the burrito for you at home make the {approved, licensed} burrito for you at home
- candiddevmike 1y agoYou wouldn't steal DRM burrito instruction firmware
- toephu2 1y agoWe're also still moving thousands of pounds of vehicle around a public highway to carry a 150lb human... so? I don't think it's a big deal. But yes drone delivery would be much nicer...for burritos.
- asdff 1y agoThat is also bad
- ibejoeb 1y agoWhy? I like the ability to move around. Bicycles are not practical in many major US markets.
- asdff 1y ago51% of car trips in the US are less than 6 miles long. Maybe reconsider if you need a multi ton vehicle with 300 mile range to get a loaf of bread. https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10318 https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10318
- zeroonetwothree 1y agoHow will I buy my immense packages of processed food from Costco though?
- asdff 1y agoWith one of these https://www.costco.ca/wike-premium-suspension-bike-trailer---includes-stroller-and-jogger-kits.product.4000358596.html https://www.costco.ca/wike-premium-suspension-bike-trailer--...
- Dylan16807 1y agoIf you're getting long lasting bulk packages then you're being energy-efficient despite the large vehicle.
- 1y ago
- constantcrying 1y agoSociety really does not need food delivery at all. It would greatly benefit everyone involved if they went to get their food, either from the supermarket or some restaurant, by themselves.
- bitpush 1y ago> everyone involved if they went to get their food Remember, food ingredients and people move around in large multi-ton vehicles as well. If you think people going from A-B is OK, then food going from B-A should be similarly OK. Infact, once you can pool together food, then the equation flips and favors food moving from B-A, rather than many people taking different paths from A-B
- kilroy123 1y agoI live in one of the biggest cities in the world, and we get a big grocery delivery to our door bi-weekly. It's a huge help to buy in bulk vs going to get a few things daily.
- asdff 1y agoMillions of years of selection have given you a body designed to walk 10+ miles a day for your daily resources. Use it or lose it as they say. Foraging is good for you.
- dullcrisp 1y agoYou mean dumpster diving? Or are we also supposed to work a full time job?
- array_key_first 1y agoYes and then we threw away those millions of years of selection to sit at a desk and in a car for 60 hours a week. It's honestly a miracle onto God that everyone isn't just constantly trying to kill themselves.
- vidarh 1y ago
- cons0le 1y agoThen it's time for cities to not be cowards, and go all in on the food bus hyperloop model. It needs to be like those conveyor sushi places, except on the scale of a city. Places like mcdonalds should have fleets of busses with hot-and-ready food just doing loops around town, only returning when they re stock. Companies could even share busses. Or delivery companies like door dash could switch to the collective bus model and turn thier drivers into bus drivers. I need to be able to just walk outside and flag down the burrito man, just like you would for an ice creme truck
- rtkwe 1y agoMost fast food is largely cooked to order and pretty rapidly degrades once you try to hold it for more any real amount of time before consumption. /Maybe/ partially assembled burgers could have patties cooked right before serving or for pizza do a model like the pizza vending machines where it's baked right before it's dispensed but I don't see the version becoming popular where it's a lot of food fully precooked and assembled being predictively shuttled around town. Beyond quality issues it'd just lead to a massive amount of food waste too. In order to always have the order available you'd have to stock everything in excess of demand and food only holds for so long before it has to be disposed of for safety reasons.
- kilroy123 1y agoThese people are trying, but I'm not very bullish on it, to be honest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuhI_-QBYAE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuhI_-QBYAE
- jjtheblunt 1y ago> ... to carry a 1lb burrito, obviously lightweight aerial drones are the future ... you've overlooked the trebuchet !
- objektif 1y agoBurrito pipes are also an ongoing area of research led by many VC backed startups.
- bombcar 1y agohttps://idlewords.com/2007/04/the_alameda_weehawken_burrito_tunnel.htm https://idlewords.com/2007/04/the_alameda_weehawken_burrito_...
- kyleee 1y agoIf only France and Mexico shared a border, Paris could have converted their pneumatic mail delivery system to burrito delivery system. That would have been good alternate reality
- efitz 1y agoYeas ago, I thought- why not both? Use a catapult/trebuchet/cannon to launch the drone as close as possible to the target area - maybe use a discardable biodegradable sheath to improve aerodynamics. At the optimal distance and height, switch the drone from ballistic to powered mode and complete the delivery. Maybe increases payload (the drone doesn’t have to take off carrying the payload). And definitely increases range, as we are not having to use onboard power for flight for part of the laden delivery, so there is more energy available for the unladen return trip. Personally I would love to see cannon launches but most localities are unlikely to approve (maybe Texas?)
- ktosobcy 1y agoEverything boils down to terrible (USA?) "city" planning - instead of having anything relatively close-by so you can walk to to get the groceries or the "burrito" can be delivered on bike it has to involved absurdly heavy car...
- asdff 1y agoHere in socal everything is in biking distance. Best weather in the country. People just refuse to do it.
- dheera 1y agoMostly because biking in socal is actually dangerous. Drivers see bikers as scum, not as bona fide road users.
- asdff 1y agoEhh, I take the full lane. I survive. They honk sometimes sure.
- hshdhdhehd 1y agoSample size 1. May be an element of survival bias.
- Fricken 1y agoStatistically cyclists live longer than non-cyclists.
- asdff 1y agoLook at the very low rate of accidents for cyclists and then consider the fact that the bulk of that dataset at least among american populations is going to be comprised of cyclists who are drunk, high, both, mentally ill, or otherwise showing little regard for the rule of law on the road. Don't be drunk, be sane, follow the rules of traffic, and you have shifted to an extremely low risk demographic where the accident rate may well be close to zero.
- 9dev 1y agoYou know that bicycles are a thing too, right? Low-tech, muscle powered, no gas required, repairable, fast, and flexible too. High tech is not the answer to everything.
- trhway 1y agowhy there aren't autonomous bicycles or the autonomous things in that class? I remember those "cockroaches" on Castro in the mid-201x, saw recently another significantly larger "cockroach" around Palo Alto, yet they slow, and cumbersome in their presence on the sidewalk, and don't seem to be made for the road. Looking at the bicyclists "texting while biking" i think the delivery wouldn't be the only market for an autonomous bicycles. Sidenote: heard that Tesla added an "aggressive mode" to its FSD in which it would drive at higher speeds and would make more aggressive maneuvers. I suppose it isn't just Tesla as after more than decade of docile behavior of Waymo cars i've been recently aggressively cut by a Waymo, and few weeks before that a Waymo car asserted it's well out-of-normal left turn trajectory forcing us to give it way to avoid being barreled by it. Interesting whether such an aggressive autonomous driving would shorten the burrito delivery time.
- windward 1y agoGetting drivers stuck behind what is visibly an autonomous burrito taxi will make anti-cyclist rage look tame
- trhway 1y agoThe robot wouldn’t mind getting to the side and letting traffic pass, and the drivers would appreciate such polite and considerate road behavior which thus will generate a lot of positive attitude toward the robots. I think we can state the 0th law of robots as “don’t be an ass”.
- tuukkah 1y agoE-bikes etc. are very popular. The long shifts are probably quite tiring otherwise.
- tuukkah 1y agoSmall delivery robots are in several (walkable) cities since a few years now. Starship was the first brand (they say in 270 cities, campuses etc.): https://www.starship.xyz/ https://www.starship.xyz/ (City center properties don't have drone drop/landing areas.) (The couriers here use e-bikes and similar light vehicles as they can navigate quicker in the traffic.)
- tantalor 1y agoThat's short sighted. A burrito is a perfect candidate for ballistic trajectory. They can easily absorb the high g-force associated with traditional mortar-style launch system, even up to exotic "space gun" capable of intercontinental delivery.
- jazzyjackson 1y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_mail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_mail
- umpalumpaaa 1y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipline_(drone_delivery_company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipline_(drone_delivery_compan...
- themafia 1y agoThe answer is clearly pneumatic tubes. https://youtu.be/H8uHUc0zFQQ?si=yccbG_WPoQLehHD8&t=48 https://youtu.be/H8uHUc0zFQQ?si=yccbG_WPoQLehHD8&t=48
- wat10000 1y agohttps://idlewords.com/2007/04/the_alameda_weehawken_burrito_tunnel.htm https://idlewords.com/2007/04/the_alameda_weehawken_burrito_...
- somethoughts 1y agoThe burrito ballistic tech seems like it could probably handle the last 10 yards problem and enable drive by delivery. Postmates - How we built a Burrito Cannon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br_KqzLWunM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br_KqzLWunM Burrito Cannon Demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDdKYmStcIc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDdKYmStcIc
- vizzier 1y agoA good sabot system could turn many other meals effectively into burritos.
- Johnny555 1y agoWhat's the KWh/mile of a drone versus an EV? Should factor in that the small drone can only deliver a single small package, but the EV can carry more and make multiple stops.
- dzhiurgis 1y agoI can do nearly 10km flight on 35Wh battery. Same in an EV is about 1.5KWh or about 40x more. Of course my drone is for FPV fun, delivery drone would be far less efficient. Either way cost of power negligible here.
- 05 1y agoI would use Arduplane figures for efficiency comparison, not anything from FPV quads. Mini Talon is about 1.4W*h/km [0] [0] https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?s=11f6090a0c478f6fbc0554518aae4830&p=46863979&postcount=17027 https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?s=11f6090a0c478...
- rpcope1 1y agoWith how much weight though?
- seanmcdirmid 1y agoIn China, they use E-bikes, I'm not sure why that wouldn't work here? Autonomous E-bikes shouldn't be that hard to manage, ya, they would need to balance themselves like segways, but I'm sure the tech is already there for it. There is no need for them to be full sized cars, even for crash safety...since it is just food that would get damaged in an accident.
- RationPhantoms 1y agoSome anecdata; E-bikes are definitely used in other major cities. I lived up against the Hudson in Jersey City and worked out of Manhattan and that was the primary means by which Doordash/Ubereats was moved around.
- yunwal 1y agoEbikes and small scooters make up the vast majority of deliveries in major cities. Can't remember the last time a delivery driver came in a car in NYC.
- dgb23 1y agoIn Switzerland E-bikes are very common for that purpose, especially in cities and towns.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- ummonk 1y agoI don’t think the weight is the issue — cargo cars could be built to be lightweight but you’ll still run into drag limitations based on cross section.
- fragmede 1y agoBeing based on something like the Renault Twizy would have a smaller cross-section. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Twizy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Twizy
- isthatafact 1y agoYou could make the vehicle very aerodynamic since it only needs to carry a burrito or a pizza, and drag is not that even that big of an issue in cities because speeds are so low that you are essentially limited to bicycle speeds anyway.
- Wingman4l7 1y agoIt's already happening -- Zipline partnered with Walmart and has been actively performing deliveries in TX and I think a few other places. Google's Wing may also be doing commercial deliveries but I don't know as much about their current status.
- ibejoeb 1y agoI guess phoenix is good for them since they're in the area already, but you'd think it'd be more helpful to run this in a market where they're actively trialing. At least then they'd be doing some useful work while ramping up.
- codedokode 1y agoWhat about small wheeled robots like this moving by sidewalks? [1] Unlike drones, they don't fall on people's head. And kids love to play with them by blocking their way and seeing how they try to find another way. [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Yandex_delivery_robot.jpg/1280px-Yandex_delivery_robot.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Ya...
- GuinansEyebrows 1y agothese things are such a nuisance on sidewalks. i wish cities would prevent the rollout of new commercial automated vehicles that make it harder for real people to make use of existing pedestrian infrastructure.
- codedokode 1y agoMaybe the sidewalks should be wider? I agree that in historical part of the city they can be pretty narrow (can be fixed by narrowing or removing the car lanes though), but in 20th century (Soviet) developed areas the sidewalks are pretty wide, they can be like 10 meters (30 feet) wide on large streets or more. They could also use bicycle lanes, but cyclists won't like it.
- patall 1y agoHave you ever seen one? Because the ones I have seen IRL doing deliveries where especially lost in open spaces. They do not make sense how they are moving and its not that obvious where its going. Like a goose on the side-walk: you need to be vary because you cannot really determine what it will do next. But in theory, they should work great ...
- codedokode 1y agoI have seen one. They just seem to be careful and do not rush. And unlike goose they don't bite.
- lan321 1y ago
- vel0city 1y agoAround me there are small robots that follow sidewalks and bike paths to deliver foods. They're essentially the size of a medium or large cooler with six wheels that can climb some stairs and curbs. https://www.starship.xyz/ https://www.starship.xyz/
- Ekaros 1y agoI think we should go back to Pneumatic tubes. I wonder if justifiable size could be made. But still after infra is build we could move lot of food and package delivery to the system.
- maples37 1y agoYou wouldn't be the first to suggest pneumatic delivery of burritos https://idlewords.com/2007/04/the_alameda_weehawken_burrito_tunnel.htm https://idlewords.com/2007/04/the_alameda_weehawken_burrito_...
- dheera 1y agoIdeally the real future for food delivery is not food delivery. People should be given enough time to make and eat healthy food, or dine-in at a restaurant if they want to eat restaurant food. Boxed up food tastes bad, and is largely a solution for overworking people.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- newyankee 1y agoIf one keeps going down the rabbit hole, one might infer that the way our cities are designed is entirely wrong but probably with 60-70 year of invested capital difficult to change fast enough
- bubblethink 1y agoWell, we are already doing that but with an extra human too. More than drones, I want a network of pneumatic tubes like in the movie Brazil.
- fergie 1y agoOr walking/cycling
- 127 1y agoOr small autonomous carts that drive on the bicycle and pedestrian roads. Safest, simplest, easiest to implement. The biggest hurdle is not technology, but politics and infrastructure.
- nradov 1y agoOK hear me out. What if we upgrade to 2lb burritos? That would double efficiency!
- lm28469 1y agoYeah but it's it's autonomous and powered by "green" energy so it's 100% acceptable and desirable
- drogus 1y agoI can't tell if you're being serious or not
- dzonga 1y agothis is the case where little delivery bots would work. cheap enough to deployed in the thousands. small enough to take up less than 1 sq / ft of sidewalk space.
- gman2093 1y agoWe have these smaller wheeled vehicles on a college campus, I'll note that they are not autonomous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1yDtLhRygs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1yDtLhRygs
- tracker1 1y agoAre aerial drones really any better in terms of energy expended? Not to mention the massive amount of noise, which has already shut down several attempts at drone delivery.
- hakfoo 1y agoWhy not ground-based remote-control or autonomous vehicles? You waste a lot of energy just fighting gravity.