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Jeep pushed software update that bricked all 2024 Wrangler 4xe models
- b112 1y agoNever heard of this guy. Would be nice to have some reliable validation this is true...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- paganel 1y agoThere's this video [1] linked in the Twitter post, showing how the problem manifests itself and with other (presumably also) Jeep 4xe owners commenting that they had experienced the exact same issue. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGY6JWhHiU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGY6JWhHiU
- tclancy 1y agoHe's clearly a real person and reliable, because the thread is inundated with all sorts of . . . people pushing weird agendas.
- cut3 1y ago[flagged]
- nubinetwork 1y agoA quick google search gave me https://www.4xeforums.com/threads/wrangler-4xe-ota-update-10-10-2025.8078/ https://www.4xeforums.com/threads/wrangler-4xe-ota-update-10...
- mikestew 1y agoThis should be the URL for TFA, not some random Twitter post.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- PKop 1y ago[flagged]
- kotaKat 1y agodesigners are known to gaslight the end user, so
- bombcar 1y agoPerhaps the users were just holding the Jeep wrong.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoAsking for proof is not complaining. Back in my day, being able to request and see verification of claims was considered a benefit of communicating via internet.
- PKop 1y agoIt's literally a complaint so you're wrong, not that there's anything inherently wrong with complaining. But it's dumb he called the poster on another website a complainer for daring to be upset about his car shutting off. There's no moral superiority for posting (complaining) here rather than there.
- ryandrake 1y agoFollowing this logic, everything posted to HN should have someone commenting asking for "proof" because a single article isn't "verified". Do you see how pointless this is?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- lovelearning 1y agoWhat kind of proof can be shown that'll be accepted by most people as proof of a bricked car after an automated software update? No matter what's shown, I can easily think of alternative explanations.
- xbar 1y agoyes, following the several links and reading led to confirmation by dozens of sources.
- Xiol 1y agoYou cannot see replies to the linked tweet without an account. The Twitter OP cannot put links into his main tweet because the algorithm will downrank him. Isn't it just great?
- jmclnx 1y agoA wrangler using software just does not "compute" to me. But I guess this is our new world. I drove a CJ for many years until it rusted out from under me and the engine seized, but I thought it was great, I went everywhere with it. I would like to have a wrangler but it is too expensive, too many bells and whistles and to large, I would never get one. Now I an driving an 18 year auto and hope to keep it going for another 18 :)
- timnetworks 1y agoJeep parts and frames and cabs are plentiful in the right circles, you can still build out a good wrangler (2.4 or 2.5 or 3L) for less money than a new car, and know your computer is planted firmly under the driver's seat and not connecting to anything.
- PKop 1y ago> A wrangler using software just does not "compute" to me. In the case of this Jeep bug causing engine shutoff and power failure, it was an update to the infotainment system! It's easy to compute that these infotainment systems run software; what's crazy is updates to them can cause catastrophic failure to powering the car and ability of the car to drive.
- 1y ago
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- erikig 1y agoThis owner shared the experience on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGY6JWhHiU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGY6JWhHiU - Vehicle randomly stalls every couple of minutes requiring shutdown and restart - Shifter doesn't switch out of Park - Dashboard lights including check engine/drive to dealer etc
- chihuahua 1y agoDealer response: "That's normal, they all do that."
- EvanAnderson 1y agoThis is chilling (from https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/2024-4xe-loss-of-motive-power-after-10-10-25-ota-update.157939/ https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/2024-4xe-loss...): > On my drive home I abruptly had absolutely no acceleration, the gear indicator on the dash started flashing, the power mode indicator disappeared, an alert said shift into park and press the brake + start button, and the check engine light and red wrench lights came on. I was still able to steer and brake with power steering and brakes for maybe 30 seconds before those went out too. After putting it into park and pressing the brake and start button it started back up and I could drive it normally for a little bit, but it happened two more times on my 1.5 mi drive home. If that happened on the highway I could easily see people being killed.
- amluto 1y agoOn a reasonably well constructed car, loss of power steering at highway speeds is barely noticeable. Loss of power brakes is a different story. An inability to actually get all the way off the highway before running out of speed could also be quite dangerous, and a loss of power steering can indeed make it quite difficult to maneuver at low speeds.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Eddy_Viscosity2 1y agoIf its drive-by-wire steering, then isn't loss of power steering the same as loss of all steering?
- mikestew 1y agoIf its drive-by-wire steering… Which it isn’t. What production passenger vehicles have no steering column? (EDIT: oh, yeah, forgot about Cybertruck.)
- theluketaylor 1y ago
- PKop 1y agoIt's important to understand this update caused power failure and engine shutoff while driving!
- xbar 1y agoRight. This bricked cars in middle of deadly situations.
- Imagenuity 1y agoUpdates need to be illegal while a vehicle while in use. It should only be allowed while parked and after prompting the user to OK the update.
- elephanlemon 1y agoIf I ever buy a newer car, first thing I plan to do is find and remove or disconnect the modem.
- lionkor 1y agoImmediately the check engine light would come on and it would automatically pull over if you tried to drive it, I'd guess.
- chneu 1y agoThis is why I bought a fiesta. There is nearly no "smart" stuff in it. Everything is still mostly analog and very user friendly. Plus the ST is one of the most fun cars you can drive. RIP Fiesta model. Too amazing for your own good.
- sho_hn 1y agoBelieve me that there's at least two dozen computers doing their thing in your "mostly analog" Fiesta. Consumers tend to heavily underestimate the point in time from which cars started absolutely relying on modern electronics.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 1y agoCan confirm and they were shit. The transmission control module died on mine which means the car is dead. The TCM also died on everybody else's fiesta and fusion for a multi-year model span. I could not get a new one for 8 months while it sat in a garage.
- Marsymars 1y agoThe parent has a Fiesta ST which has never included a TCM. The powershift dual clutch transmissions had many shoddy model years, but the manual Fiestas were pretty reliable. I drove my 2011 model until earlier this year without any major problems.
- reorder9695 1y ago
- xp84 1y agoAs a former owner of a Fiat, this is exactly the kind of stupidity I’d expect from ~FCA~ Stellantis. (I lemon lawed mine. Got nearly all my money back!)
- tonyedgecombe 1y agoIt's like somebody decided to take all the mediocre car brands and pool them together to create something worse than all its parts.
- Spivak 1y agoBut at least now you can look at all the brands they own and run for the hills.
- fuzzfactor 1y agoIf vehicles always still had to go back to the dealer for any type of recall, I would say that might have maintained a higher standard of what is supposed to pass for finished goods coming out of a factory. The safety implications in this case really drive that home.
- kevin_thibedeau 1y agoFiat mode enabled.
- 1970-01-01 1y agoFlash It Again, Tony
- Imagenuity 1y agoFeeble Italian Attempt at Technology
- DebtDeflation 1y agoThere is absolutely no way an OTA update should be able to impact anything powertrain related, it should be limited to the infotainment system and accessories. PCM updates should require a hard connection to the vehicle's OBD port at the dealership/mechanic (or a home user with the appropriate software and cable). NHTSA should investigate this.
- PKop 1y agoThis update was for the infotainment system. To your point, that system should somehow be air-gapped from affecting the engine and power. There's way too much coupling of all this software and electrical components.
- cosmicgadget 1y agoUh how would you change vehicle performance settings?
- jimmaswell 1y agoconnect to the OBD2 port or something? there are lots of alternatives
- cosmicgadget 1y agoA diagnostic port for a Jeep to switch from city to offroad? Or power mode to econ?
- noisem4ker 1y agoFor the sake of answering you: through dedicated physical switches (such as Ferrari's famous manettino). What I really think: my car shouldn't have any bullshit "modes" to select from. Tune it once at the factory to some reasonable compromise, and perhaps make certain settings writable through the OBD port, and that will be it.
- 1y ago
- BoredPositron 1y agoThe forum thread is more chilling. It seems they released a fix that they pushed silently. You can't verify if you installed the silent update yourself the support rep needs to use your vin in an internal tool to check if the fix is applied. "Park your car in an area with good cell coverage. Wait 10 minutes and do a reboot." After that I can try driving my car and hope the update went through? Absolutely insane.
- uuddlrlrbaba 1y agoA couple more rubber duckies on the dash should sort that right out
- lifeisstillgood 1y agoI think most “techies” know in their gut what causes this and where it’s heading - I remember doing PC repair post first dot com crash (first bankruptcy) and the amount of shit shovelled onto consumer PCs (every device manufacturer had its own weird set of drivers, drivers installers, app), every piece of software put something in there, let alone what MSFT started you out with. All of it trying to be “user friendly” whilst achieve it the opposite We are going to see this play out in every device (car, fridge, TV) that is not locked down by the OEM (apple gets a lot of kudos and knocks for this) Cars are going to be the front line of this war- it’s not a “right to repair” it’s “a right to have good defaults” and “no upselling opportunities” (I think of it as there are no commercial businesses anymore - just utilities who give clearly defined service that have clear APIs and endpoints. Sadly I think the world will head towards a point where I will make a fortune selling Augmented vision glasses that remove the adverts reality …
- ryandrake 1y agoIt should be a "right to not have product forced on you." When I buy a device, whether it is a car, a refrigerator, or an application, I want that thing that I saw in the store, as it exists on the store shelf, including the features and capabilities. I do not expect that I am going to maintain some kind of ongoing relationship with the manufacturer where they get to modify my device at their whim over the air. Manufacturers should feel free to offer updates. If the user feels the tradeoffs make sense, then they should be free to accept updates. But this business where the manufacturer thinks they are somehow entitled to mess around with a product you've already purchased from them has got to end. It's not their product anymore, it's yours.
- mystraline 1y agoWe've lost this game ages ago. Its the CFAA for you and me, but not for corporate thee. Sony was the first mass application of "lol nope, we sold a feature we decided to remove. Too bad". If our government cared about citizenry, this should have been a criminal and civil case both, under computer fraud and abuse act. But no criminal anything was done, and users go what, $20, 10 years after the fact? If I did this, I'd be rotting in a jailcell for 20 years.
- cosmicgadget 1y agoLooks like it's been acknowledged/fixed: https://www.4xeforums.com/threads/wrangler-4xe-ota-update-10-10-2025.8078/page-2?nested_view=1&post_id=103207#post-103207 https://www.4xeforums.com/threads/wrangler-4xe-ota-update-10...
- pavel_lishin 1y ago> For anyone that incurred a towing cost or a diagnostic fee (or any other related expense), we will assist in reimbursing or canceling any fees. This will commence on Monday. "we will assist" - a guarantee so lukewarm, you could put it in an icebox to keep your food fresh for a week.
- tlogan 1y agoI assume this is related to the new feature that lets you start the engine without being able to drive the car (it’s called “lock start” or something like that). And the Wrangler is the only Stellantis brand that still has some value. Yet somehow, they’re finding a way to ruin even that.
- RedShift1 1y agoI think the biggest problem with cars these days is that the software has been written by people who have never driven a car.
- hackernewds 1y agowhat makes you make this very broad and general statement which is most likely untrue
- Kapura 1y agoinsane take. these are the same problems that all other modern software has.
- RedShift1 1y agoWhich are because the developers themselves don't use the software.
- ponector 1y agoTried to buy from amazon.fr recently, had feeling like it is designed and developed by people never used online shopping. It's almost impossible to find products. And if you try to set English language it simply cannot show list with products. Ridiculous for their billions.
- blibble 1y agoso Jeep have adopted agentic AI?
- zxcvbn4038 1y agoAllowing owners to choose when to install updates would address many issues. Most updates are uneventful, but I’d prefer to install them when I’m at home in my driveway rather than while road-tripping in a rural area, 90 miles from the nearest dealer, or rushing to meet a nonrefundable hotel reservation.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- fpauser 1y agoDisturbing — this kind of progress sucks! I want reliable things that I own that are under my own control. We should all stop immediately buying this out-of-our-own-control stuff!
- alwahi 1y agoIm yet to comprehend why a car needs a software update.
- fpauser 1y agoTo streamline sales and minimize production costs.
- fpauser 1y agoThis is the enshittification of cars.
- tclancy 1y agoI'd like to laugh about this because it's one of the things I love about my 2010 Camaro which wound up in a fairly sweet spot of having the basic tech I want (Bluetooth to the radio) without a lot of the nanny stuff I don't, but I once upgraded the operating system with two USB keys containing a bunch of C# from a stranger on the Internet who said he worked at GM. You had to open the driver side door between the first and second USB keys to make the process work.
- HaZeust 1y agoMy 6th gen camaro SS hasn't really given me trouble - GM didn't really force anything in any gen camaros IIRC.
- tclancy 1y agoYeah, 15 years and the biggest problem I have had so far is convincing the dealership I really don’t want the recall that removes the key from the fob after the tenth time I told them no.
- rkagerer 1y agoThis is why I don't want auto-updates in most of the things I own. It's just a crutch for manufacturers to ship half-baked products, and an attack vector for the next generation of shitty engineers they hire to damage my property.
- treesknees 1y agoI wish people would stop using the term “bricked” for fully recoverable failure conditions. Jeep has already confirmed they’ve pushed out a fix. That is not bricked.
- gchamonlive 1y agoI agree, but I can't think of another term that would convey the severity of this offending update.
- CaptainOfCoit 1y agoHow about "catastrophic"? Or "total failure"? Or "we can't find the word to convey the severity"? Anything else than words that already have existing meanings. With that motivation, they could have said "... update that exploded all ..." since it's a really severe situation, but obviously we/they should use words that has the right meaning instead.
- gchamonlive 1y ago"Jeep just pushed an update that was catastrophic to all 2024..." "Jeep just pushed an update that was a total failure to all 2024..." Idk... Doesn't have a very good ring, because "catastrophic" and "total failure" in the realm of tech usually means something that if you try again it could possibly work. As I said, I agree that "brick" is a good word, I just don't think any of the alternatives are any better.
- CaptainOfCoit 1y ago> As I said, I agree that "brick" is a good word, I just don't think any of the alternatives are any better. As I said, "brick" is as good of a choice as "explosive", but you do you.
- gchamonlive 1y agoIt's not even close. We're talking about soft Vs hard bricking, and how "to brick" usually means hard bricking instead of soft, whereas if you said the update exploded the devices you'd be outright lying. But you do you
- PKop 1y agoReddit post from yesterday: "Jeep 4xe shut off mid highway I was driving 65 on the left lane of the highway when my car started slowing down. It started saying to put it into P and to push to start. The car was off and I couldn’t accelerate! I almost crashed trying to get onto the right lane shoulder. 4 lanes over before it completely stopped and caused a huge accident They are saying it’s something with an update jeep is doing and the cars are just stopping! There were 4 jeep wranglers on the side of the highway as I tried driving to the nearest dealership 25min. It turned off 3 times Will Jeep reimburse me if I get a loaner while my car is at the dealership? My dealership doesn’t provide loaner vehicles Does anyone know what’s going on?" https://www.reddit.com/r/Jeep/comments/1o47064/jeep_4xe_shut_off_mid_highway/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Jeep/comments/1o47064/jeep_4xe_shut...
- hk1337 1y agoWhat happened with Jeep is why Linus gets so upset about some submitted changes.
- OptionOfT 1y agoIt used to be that when you get an update, software would get better. New functionality (remember Windows Service Packs?). Now when there is an update they either change the UI (for certain people to remain relevant), or they add more ads.
- monocasa 1y ago> Roslin: It tells people things like where the restroom is, and- > Adama: It's an integrated computer network, and I will not have it aboard this ship. > Roslin: I heard you're one of those people. You're actually afraid of computers. > Adama: No, there are many computers on this ship. But they're not networked. > Roslin: A computerized network would simply make it faster and easier for the teachers to be able to teach- > Adama: Let me explain something to you. Many good men and women lost their lives aboard this ship because someone wanted a faster computer to make life easier. I'm sorry that I'm inconveniencing you or the teachers, but I will not allow a networked computerized system to be placed on this ship while I'm in command. Is that clear? > Roslin: Yes, sir. > Adama: Thank you. 'Scuse me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPKGbg16ulU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPKGbg16ulU Basically me when talking about cars I'll buy.
- Robdel12 1y agoI’m a huge car guy (race spec Miata, have 7 cars, etc etc). You will never EVER catch me in a car connected to the internet (this includes all the precious new EVs). Especially a Chrysler product. Look up how they were hacked in 2015…
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- vayup 1y agoNo attack suspected here. Nonetheless, it exposes an often under appreciated attack vector. It is scary how easy it will be for a motivated actor to cause chaos by just bricking stuff en masse.
- gorbypark 1y agoJeep is horrible. I was gifted a 2007 Jeep Commander, which was Jeep's "answer" to the Hummer. This was in like 2017, so it was 10 years old at that point. Anyways, it wouldn't shift into 4x4 mode, and after some internet sleuthing I found out there was a (now second) firmware update the dealership could do to hopefully fix the issue. I don't remember the exact details, but basically there was a hardware flaw in the module controlling the transfer case, and when it failed the vehicle would go into neutral, which obviously could be quite dangerous depending on where you were parked / what you were doing. Instead of fixing the actual hardware issue, they did a recall that was some sort of black magic with a firmware update to "fix" the issue. According to the internet, this fix temporarily worked, with pretty much all of them failing again, conveniently after the vehicle was out of warranty. Anyways, there was a second firmware update, that I had done 10 years after the vehicle was made, that more or less actually "fixed" the issue. Apparently the issue (according to Jeep forums, so take with a grain of salt) was due to some traces being undersized on the PCB, so the fix was to drop the voltage and/or current being sent, and then more or less disabling the safety sensors that would complain about low voltage. After the second firmware update, it would shift into 4x4 about 1 out of 4 attempts (otherwise just failing with "couldn't shift into 4x4" on the screen), and that was the final thing that could be done. It took Jeep about 4 or 5 years to issue that final firmware update, probably to try and avoid a class action lawsuit over 90% of the vehicles 4x4 system failing just outside of the warranty period!
- jonplackett 1y agoI’m holding out with a very old petrol car which I would really like to upgrade. But this all seems like hell. I’d love an electric car - but I want a dumb one that can’t call home and never gets updates. Just this pedal go fast. This pedal go slow.
- raminf 1y agoIn a past life I had a Wall of Shame of headlines on firmware update fails. The lesson was you built firmware updates upfront and right into your development process so it became a non-event. You put in lots of tests, including automatic verification and rollback recovery. You made it so everyone was 100% comfortable pushing out updates, like every hour. It wasn't this big, scary release thing. You did binary deltas so each update was small, and trickle download during down-time. You did A/B partitions, or if you had flash space, A/B/C updates (current firmware, new update, last known good one). Bricking devices and recalls are expensive and cause reputational damage. Adding OTA requires WiFi, BLE, or cell, which increases BOM cost and backend support. Trade-off is manual updates requiring dealership visits or on-site tech support calls with USB keys. It doesn't scale well. For consumer devices, it leads to lots of unpatched, out-of-date devices, increasing support costs and legal risk. OTA also lets you push out in stages and do blue-green deployment testing. For security, you had on-device asymmetric encryption keys and signed each update, then rolled the keys so if someone reverse-engineered the firmware, it wouldn't be a total loss. Ideally add a TPM to the BOM with multiple key slots and a HW encryption engine. Anyone thinking about shipping unencrypted firmware, or baking symmetric encryption keys into firmware should be publicly flogged. You also needed a data migration system so user-customizations aren't wiped out. My newish car, to this day, resets most user settings when it gets an OTA. No wonder people turn off automatic updates. The really good systems also used realistic device simulators to measure impact before even pushing things out. And you definitely tested for communication failures and interruptions. Like, yoink out a power-line mid-update and then watch what happens after power is back on. Yes, it's costly and time-consuming, but consider the alternatives. The ones that failed the most were when they spent months or years developing the basic system, then tacked on update at the end as part of deployment. Since firmware update wasn't as sexy as developing cool new tech, this was doled out to lower-tier devs who didn't know what they were doing. Also, doing it at the end of the project meant it was often the least-tested feature. The other sin was waiting months before rolling out updates, so there were lots of changes packed into one update, which made a small failure have a huge blast radius. These were all technical management failures. Designing a robust update system should be right up-front in the project plan, built by your best engineers, then including it in the CI/CD pipeline. Just for context, the worst headline I had was for update failure in a line of hospital infant incubators.
- gloosx 1y agoImagine if Microsoft started making cars...
- thelastgallon 1y agoThis bug is just an early release of a future feature. https://youtu.be/T1Rpo8BRwYg https://youtu.be/T1Rpo8BRwYg In Time is a 2011 American science fiction action film written, co-produced, and directed by Andrew Niccol. Justin Timberlake and Amanda Seyfried star as inhabitants of a society that uses time from one's lifespan as its primary currency, with each individual possessing a clock on their arm that counts down how long they have to live.
- akerl_ 1y agoAs an aside to the discussions of the implications of how OTAs work / how they’re tested / etc: I saw this post while sitting in a 2024 4xe which was not bricked, so it doesn’t appear to be all of them.
- Larx-3 1y agoMaybe you lucked out and didn’t get the update before they killed it. I hope they do a gradual rollout and they don’t push updates to the entire fleet at once (that would be irresponsible), but from the amount of people experiencing issues since Friday… I’ve been thinking of buying/leasing a 4xe Wrangler since I rented one back in September for a couple of weeks and enjoyed it. However, stuff like this makes me concerned since I already know Jeep/stellantis have sub-par reliability compared to other car manufacturers. A OTA update that makes the car undrivable is one thing. A bug that causes the power train shut off at highway speeds is unacceptable. Seems like multiple failures caused something like this to happen. Not only did they not QA an update properly, but the mere fact that a Infotainment/Telematics firmware update could kill the motor/engine while driving is crazy. In addition, the fact that they roll out an update like this on a Friday before a holiday weekend is also absurd. There should be some sort of health check across all the car systems/ECUs before allowing the car to drive. Stuff like this makes me more likely to look at Rivian instead (although they’ve had reliability issues too).
- metalman 1y agosome poor bastard owns a jeep, an amazon tv and samsung fridge and phone, and is stuck at home bieng force fed adds for jeeps on his tv fridge and phone
- worik 1y agoModern cars "computers on wheels" are dreadful. Is it possible to disconnect the power from the radios used for "over the air" nonsense? Then at least they would be stable.
- snug 1y agoI know my problem is not as bad, but it lines up. I have a 2020 Rubicon, non-4xe model, and as of this weekend, Carplay will no longer work. Works just fine in my other vehicle.
- wanderingmind 1y agoDumb question from someone who uses old cars without OTA, how can cars get OTA if you don't pay for any internet subscription? Can't you say I don't want to pay for any internet costs when buying the car? Also ensure you don't connect the car to wifi. Isn't that suffice?
- freddel 1y agoWe were lucky!!!! This almost killed my wife and I the jeep just shut down while driving!!!!! No power no way to move this was and is life threatening now two days without the vehicle and we see it the manufacturer that almost caused our death.. F U what are they going to do for the customers we no longer have faith in this vehicle……….
- freddel 1y agoWth