8 ms·

AfD is classified as extreme-right not only in the eyes of the public, but also by German intelligence. Therefore I'd personally expect them to support potentia

AfD is classified as extreme-right not only in the eyes of the public, but also by German intelligence. Therefore I'd personally expect them to support potential tools that authoritarian governments would find useful.

PKop 1y ago
Open communication online about the problems of mass migration is what has fueled the rise of right wing parties across the west, so no they would not support suppressing communication (which is aimed primarily at stopping this very rise).
- egeozcan 1y ago
  But this is not about suppressing all communication, this is ultimately about giving the ability to steer the conversation to avoid what people in power would find problematic.
SebKba 1y ago
It's the classical playbook. Capture the media, declare the opposition illegal, bye bye democracy. The public was sold this Nazi story about the AfD by the established powers to keep them down. Looking at what has been going on it's wild to me to call the AfD authoritarian compared the the Altparteien...
- camillomiller 1y ago
  [flagged]
- angry_octet 1y ago
  The AfD are ultra right and leading figures have openly admitted that they contemplate killing migrants, de-islamification of Europe by expelling all muslims, breaking the EU, etc. They also scatter their speech with fascist dog whistles, and even Nazi slogans from the man in charge, Björn Höcke [1]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/29/the-trial-of-bjorn-hocke-the-real-boss-of-germany-far-right https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/29/the-tr...
- pastage 1y ago
  > Altparteien One of those empty words one needs to be careful with it does not mean anything, and everything. Politics is not about suppressing ideas of other people, somethings parties can agree on others not so much.
- the_gipsy 1y ago
  I think you need to go back to Grundschule and study the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
- notTooFarGone 1y ago
  Another TikTok zombie - get out of your emotionally charged environment please.
angry_octet 1y ago
They are not in government just yet. But if they gain control, expect their position to change. That's why it is critical to reverse government positions across the block, or we'll see a new authoritarian wave sweep Europe.
- pembrook 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - angry_octet 1y ago
    - All your fellow citizens keep voting for said welfare state/pension system (which is undoubtedly pro-Boomer and has unsustainably low retirement ages and large benefits). - The lack of energy security is because the Red/Greens convinced everywhere except France (go Framatome!) to give up nuclear. I wonder why resource rich Russia would push such an outcome... - Europe needs to spend its savings to get nuclear going again, with a massive construction program for nuclear, solar, hydro, batteries. It also needs battery tech re-capitalisation to keep its car industry viable. - Leaving won't make it better, it is the same or worse in most places you could go.
    - onli 1y ago
      Nuclear energy is very expensive and does not necessarily provide energy security. You just have to check on the energy usage in France during the summer, when the nuclear power plants had to be shut down repeatedly now. Pushing nuclear power would neither provide reliable nor cheap energy. The route forward is solar, hydro, wind and batteries.
      - selfmodruntime 1y ago
        Nuclear, while not cheap, is clean. Coal and Gas account for 40% of Germany's energy production. All this endless talk about nuclear and whatnot, but other EU country's have been net neutral for CO2 emissions for a while now. A goal that Germany will never reach.
pembrook 1y ago
[flagged]
- mvdwoord 1y ago
  Same in neighboring Holland, certain parties, groups, or positions can never be labelled "conservative", "right", or ... it must always be extreme. It is telling and very tiresome.
  - pembrook 1y ago
    In the case of Germany I guess I can understand due to…uh…history. I’m sure the eastern bloc countries are more trigger happy to label people “far” left when they see it due to their history of the opposite. But it seems to be a Europe-wide phenomenon in traditional media outlets. Nobody calls out the far left properly, and the bias is just oozing out from the pages of all European news media. The backlash is just waiting to happen. It’s so obvious to anyone capable of critical thinking. And it will probably just lead to more irrational policies but from the opposite side.
- jdiez17 1y ago
  It is the legally accurate description of the AfD [1]. Just like it is legally correct to call Björn Höcke a fascist. [1] https://medienservice.sachsen.de/medien/news/1071656 https://medienservice.sachsen.de/medien/news/1071656
  - pembrook 1y ago
    Yes, now show me the legally accurate description of leftist parties with the opposite political craziness within it. The greens are filled with communists for example. Or the literal communist party, Die Linke. Why are they never referred to as the extreme left.
    - jdiez17 1y ago
      Here you go: https://www.bmi.bund.de/DE/themen/sicherheit/extremismus/linksextremismus/linksextremismus-node.html https://www.bmi.bund.de/DE/themen/sicherheit/extremismus/lin... Feel free to read the chapter „Linksextremismus“. It talks about various violent Antifa groups and other cases. Keep in mind that the definition of „extreme left“ refers to organizations that want to replace the basic democratic system with communism or anarchy (according to the German constitutional court). It does not necessarily include „political craziness“ that we may disagree with. The point of these legal descriptions of organizations is not to be used as a political weapon for parties you don’t like. You have to do some significantly malicious stuff to be considered as such.
victorbjorklund 1y ago
Authoritarians always oppose those things when they are not in govt.
selfmodruntime 1y ago
> but also by German intelligence You may it seem like they operate independently. They do not. This determination (while I subjectively agree) came of a report was released by a failed government's acting minister of internal affairs, on her last day of office. I read it myself and even though I don't like it, it's pretty imprecise and does some pretty heavy straw grasping at times.
lmf4lol 1y ago
[flagged]
jagermo 1y ago
they will, just not as long as it could potentially be used against them.

PKop 1y ago

Open communication online about the problems of mass migration is what has fueled the rise of right wing parties across the west, so no they would not support suppressing communication (which is aimed primarily at stopping this very rise).

egeozcan 1y ago
But this is not about suppressing all communication, this is ultimately about giving the ability to steer the conversation to avoid what people in power would find problematic.

SebKba 1y ago

It's the classical playbook. Capture the media, declare the opposition illegal, bye bye democracy. The public was sold this Nazi story about the AfD by the established powers to keep them down. Looking at what has been going on it's wild to me to call the AfD authoritarian compared the the Altparteien...

camillomiller 1y ago
[flagged]
angry_octet 1y ago
The AfD are ultra right and leading figures have openly admitted that they contemplate killing migrants, de-islamification of Europe by expelling all muslims, breaking the EU, etc. They also scatter their speech with fascist dog whistles, and even Nazi slogans from the man in charge, Björn Höcke [1]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/29/the-trial-of-bjorn-hocke-the-real-boss-of-germany-far-right https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/29/the-tr...
pastage 1y ago
> Altparteien One of those empty words one needs to be careful with it does not mean anything, and everything. Politics is not about suppressing ideas of other people, somethings parties can agree on others not so much.
the_gipsy 1y ago
I think you need to go back to Grundschule and study the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
notTooFarGone 1y ago
Another TikTok zombie - get out of your emotionally charged environment please.

angry_octet 1y ago

They are not in government just yet. But if they gain control, expect their position to change. That's why it is critical to reverse government positions across the block, or we'll see a new authoritarian wave sweep Europe.

pembrook 1y ago
[flagged]
- angry_octet 1y ago
  - All your fellow citizens keep voting for said welfare state/pension system (which is undoubtedly pro-Boomer and has unsustainably low retirement ages and large benefits). - The lack of energy security is because the Red/Greens convinced everywhere except France (go Framatome!) to give up nuclear. I wonder why resource rich Russia would push such an outcome... - Europe needs to spend its savings to get nuclear going again, with a massive construction program for nuclear, solar, hydro, batteries. It also needs battery tech re-capitalisation to keep its car industry viable. - Leaving won't make it better, it is the same or worse in most places you could go.
  - onli 1y ago
    Nuclear energy is very expensive and does not necessarily provide energy security. You just have to check on the energy usage in France during the summer, when the nuclear power plants had to be shut down repeatedly now. Pushing nuclear power would neither provide reliable nor cheap energy. The route forward is solar, hydro, wind and batteries.
    - selfmodruntime 1y ago
      Nuclear, while not cheap, is clean. Coal and Gas account for 40% of Germany's energy production. All this endless talk about nuclear and whatnot, but other EU country's have been net neutral for CO2 emissions for a while now. A goal that Germany will never reach.

pembrook 1y ago

[flagged]

mvdwoord 1y ago
Same in neighboring Holland, certain parties, groups, or positions can never be labelled "conservative", "right", or ... it must always be extreme. It is telling and very tiresome.
- pembrook 1y ago
  In the case of Germany I guess I can understand due to…uh…history. I’m sure the eastern bloc countries are more trigger happy to label people “far” left when they see it due to their history of the opposite. But it seems to be a Europe-wide phenomenon in traditional media outlets. Nobody calls out the far left properly, and the bias is just oozing out from the pages of all European news media. The backlash is just waiting to happen. It’s so obvious to anyone capable of critical thinking. And it will probably just lead to more irrational policies but from the opposite side.
jdiez17 1y ago
It is the legally accurate description of the AfD [1]. Just like it is legally correct to call Björn Höcke a fascist. [1] https://medienservice.sachsen.de/medien/news/1071656 https://medienservice.sachsen.de/medien/news/1071656
- pembrook 1y ago
  Yes, now show me the legally accurate description of leftist parties with the opposite political craziness within it. The greens are filled with communists for example. Or the literal communist party, Die Linke. Why are they never referred to as the extreme left.
  - jdiez17 1y ago
    Here you go: https://www.bmi.bund.de/DE/themen/sicherheit/extremismus/linksextremismus/linksextremismus-node.html https://www.bmi.bund.de/DE/themen/sicherheit/extremismus/lin... Feel free to read the chapter „Linksextremismus“. It talks about various violent Antifa groups and other cases. Keep in mind that the definition of „extreme left“ refers to organizations that want to replace the basic democratic system with communism or anarchy (according to the German constitutional court). It does not necessarily include „political craziness“ that we may disagree with. The point of these legal descriptions of organizations is not to be used as a political weapon for parties you don’t like. You have to do some significantly malicious stuff to be considered as such.

victorbjorklund 1y ago

Authoritarians always oppose those things when they are not in govt.

selfmodruntime 1y ago

> but also by German intelligence You may it seem like they operate independently. They do not. This determination (while I subjectively agree) came of a report was released by a failed government's acting minister of internal affairs, on her last day of office. I read it myself and even though I don't like it, it's pretty imprecise and does some pretty heavy straw grasping at times.

lmf4lol 1y ago

[flagged]

jagermo 1y ago

they will, just not as long as it could potentially be used against them.