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Is there an "or else?" Apple can't afford to just pack up and leave a market larger than the USA. While Apple has no particular interest in or loyalty to the pa

Is there an "or else?" Apple can't afford to just pack up and leave a market larger than the USA. While Apple has no particular interest in or loyalty to the past, without the EU Apple wouldn't have lived into this century.

deleted 1y ago
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betaby 1y ago
> "or else?" "Or else" is already happening. MacOS and IOS have fewer features in EU than USA. IPhone screen mirroring is not available in EU for example. All regulations have cost and legal risks. At some point it may not worth it financially.
- sigilis 1y ago
  “Do this or else we’ll make our products less attractive by not making an effort to comply with your law” does not seem like a really compelling “or else”. iPhone mirroring was cute when I first tried it, but now when I click on a notification on my laptop and it tries to open the mirroring application I am annoyed. It’s the tiniest version of my phone and takes a while to come up, if it doesn’t fail for some reason. I should turn it off. The other features they mention aren’t very compelling. I’m in the Netherlands now with a US Apple account so I can use them, but don’t care to.
- heavyset_go 1y ago
  These are the same companies that go out of their way to appease the demands of the CCP so they have access to the Chinese market. It's a bit wild to suggest the mildest of regulation is going to make abandoning a market of 700m people "worth it" lol
  - abduhl 1y ago
    Apple has a vested interest in maintaining a presence in the Chinese market because that is where a large portion of its supply chain exists. It isn’t appeasing the CCP because Chinese users, it is because of Chinese manufacturers.
  - SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
    The Chinese government does not ask for public input on their regulatory decisions, and I’m sure Apple would have similar comments if they did. They can’t be happy the iPhone Air is delayed in China.
    - heavyset_go 1y ago
      There's a difference between giving public input and suggesting a trillion dollar company will pull out of one of the largest markets in the world over milquetoast regulation.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
- Barrin92 1y ago
  >MacOS and IOS have fewer features in EU than USA. In the EU Apple already has significantly less marketshare than Android. In an at least somewhat competitive market threatening consumers doesn't make a whole lot of sense because someone will always be glad to pick them up.
- matheusmoreira 1y ago
  Simple. Make a law saying their products cannot be different than what they offer in other countries. Frame it as discrimination against europeans or something. Either give europeans something as good as what's sold world wide or get fined billions. Corporations love giving consumers their "take it or leave it" deals. You either accept their long list of abusive "terms and conditions" in their entirety or you get nothing. So give them one of those deals. Either submit completely or lose the entire european market. No negotiation. They lawyers can't figure out how to comply with the rules? Literally who cares? They are worth trillions of dollars. Their problems don't matter to anyone.
  - betaby 1y ago
    > Simple. Make a law saying their products cannot be different. Frame it as discrimination against europeans or something. Same can be said by the USA to EU car maker. Make BMW the same in EU and the USA, by adhering to the US law of course. No half measures.
    - matheusmoreira 1y ago
      Are european car companies intentionally making cars meant for the US market worse to punish attempts at regulation?
      - betaby 1y ago
        Probably? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal
  - nozzlegear 1y ago
    > Either submit completely or lose the entire european market. No negotiation. Surely this just instantly backfires for the EU when we have such a strongman, protectionist president like Trump running things in the US? I doubt he'd sit by and say "well one of our most valuable companies got what they deserved, well struck EU."
tjpnz 1y ago
EU is #2 (behind the US) in terms of net sales accounting for 26% in 2024. There is no "or else".
- theodric 1y ago
  I would consider it incredibly unlikely to happen, but based on how much money they're banking, I'd say Apple could probably afford to live without the EU.
  - tjpnz 1y ago
    Not with the declines they're seeing in China.
  - hiatus 1y ago
    For how long? Or at least, how long after they lose their second largest consumer market do shareholders demand a shakeup of leadership?
  - akmarinov 1y ago
    That’ll go over well with investors. “Hey, we’ve decided to cut 25% of our revenue” The stock price would love it
- 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
  I would think profits are more important than sales. >...there’s evidence to believe the regulation is designed to extract from companies, rather than protect consumers: as we’ll see, the bloc often imposes massive, clearly premeditated fines immediately after compliance deadlines... >... >The fines permitted under both regulations are unprecedented; the DSA permits fines of up to 6% of a company’s global annual revenue, while the DMA permits fines of up to 10% of a company’s global annual revenue, and an egregious 20% for repeat offenses. https://www.piratewires.com/p/eu-weaponizes-regulation-us-tech-companies https://www.piratewires.com/p/eu-weaponizes-regulation-us-te... The EU can write itself a check for up to 26% of Apple's annual revenue (6% + 20%). Coincidentally, that's the same as your 26% number for Apple net sales from the EU. But if Apple gets fined 26%, that represents a huge loss of capital since they still have to pay for COGS, pay taxes, pay employee salaries, and so forth.
tiahura 1y ago
Or else they look to the guy they gave the gold disc to reciprocate against EU crown jewels. LVMH looks like a big target to me.
skybrian 1y ago
According to the Guardian article: > the company could stop shipping some products and services to the 27-country bloc. But not all products of course.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

betaby 1y ago

> "or else?" "Or else" is already happening. MacOS and IOS have fewer features in EU than USA. IPhone screen mirroring is not available in EU for example. All regulations have cost and legal risks. At some point it may not worth it financially.

sigilis 1y ago
“Do this or else we’ll make our products less attractive by not making an effort to comply with your law” does not seem like a really compelling “or else”. iPhone mirroring was cute when I first tried it, but now when I click on a notification on my laptop and it tries to open the mirroring application I am annoyed. It’s the tiniest version of my phone and takes a while to come up, if it doesn’t fail for some reason. I should turn it off. The other features they mention aren’t very compelling. I’m in the Netherlands now with a US Apple account so I can use them, but don’t care to.
heavyset_go 1y ago
These are the same companies that go out of their way to appease the demands of the CCP so they have access to the Chinese market. It's a bit wild to suggest the mildest of regulation is going to make abandoning a market of 700m people "worth it" lol
- abduhl 1y ago
  Apple has a vested interest in maintaining a presence in the Chinese market because that is where a large portion of its supply chain exists. It isn’t appeasing the CCP because Chinese users, it is because of Chinese manufacturers.
- SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
  The Chinese government does not ask for public input on their regulatory decisions, and I’m sure Apple would have similar comments if they did. They can’t be happy the iPhone Air is delayed in China.
  - heavyset_go 1y ago
    There's a difference between giving public input and suggesting a trillion dollar company will pull out of one of the largest markets in the world over milquetoast regulation.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
Barrin92 1y ago
>MacOS and IOS have fewer features in EU than USA. In the EU Apple already has significantly less marketshare than Android. In an at least somewhat competitive market threatening consumers doesn't make a whole lot of sense because someone will always be glad to pick them up.
matheusmoreira 1y ago
Simple. Make a law saying their products cannot be different than what they offer in other countries. Frame it as discrimination against europeans or something. Either give europeans something as good as what's sold world wide or get fined billions. Corporations love giving consumers their "take it or leave it" deals. You either accept their long list of abusive "terms and conditions" in their entirety or you get nothing. So give them one of those deals. Either submit completely or lose the entire european market. No negotiation. They lawyers can't figure out how to comply with the rules? Literally who cares? They are worth trillions of dollars. Their problems don't matter to anyone.
- betaby 1y ago
  > Simple. Make a law saying their products cannot be different. Frame it as discrimination against europeans or something. Same can be said by the USA to EU car maker. Make BMW the same in EU and the USA, by adhering to the US law of course. No half measures.
  - matheusmoreira 1y ago
    Are european car companies intentionally making cars meant for the US market worse to punish attempts at regulation?
    - betaby 1y ago
      Probably? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal
- nozzlegear 1y ago
  > Either submit completely or lose the entire european market. No negotiation. Surely this just instantly backfires for the EU when we have such a strongman, protectionist president like Trump running things in the US? I doubt he'd sit by and say "well one of our most valuable companies got what they deserved, well struck EU."

tjpnz 1y ago

EU is #2 (behind the US) in terms of net sales accounting for 26% in 2024. There is no "or else".

theodric 1y ago
I would consider it incredibly unlikely to happen, but based on how much money they're banking, I'd say Apple could probably afford to live without the EU.
- tjpnz 1y ago
  Not with the declines they're seeing in China.
- hiatus 1y ago
  For how long? Or at least, how long after they lose their second largest consumer market do shareholders demand a shakeup of leadership?
- akmarinov 1y ago
  That’ll go over well with investors. “Hey, we’ve decided to cut 25% of our revenue” The stock price would love it
0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
I would think profits are more important than sales. >...there’s evidence to believe the regulation is designed to extract from companies, rather than protect consumers: as we’ll see, the bloc often imposes massive, clearly premeditated fines immediately after compliance deadlines... >... >The fines permitted under both regulations are unprecedented; the DSA permits fines of up to 6% of a company’s global annual revenue, while the DMA permits fines of up to 10% of a company’s global annual revenue, and an egregious 20% for repeat offenses. https://www.piratewires.com/p/eu-weaponizes-regulation-us-tech-companies https://www.piratewires.com/p/eu-weaponizes-regulation-us-te... The EU can write itself a check for up to 26% of Apple's annual revenue (6% + 20%). Coincidentally, that's the same as your 26% number for Apple net sales from the EU. But if Apple gets fined 26%, that represents a huge loss of capital since they still have to pay for COGS, pay taxes, pay employee salaries, and so forth.

tiahura 1y ago

Or else they look to the guy they gave the gold disc to reciprocate against EU crown jewels. LVMH looks like a big target to me.

skybrian 1y ago

According to the Guardian article: > the company could stop shipping some products and services to the 27-country bloc. But not all products of course.