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As a European, I can’t help but feel a bit sad that we’re missing out on the driverless side of things. It seems like most of the meaningful deployments are hap
by darkamaul 1y ago
As a European, I can’t help but feel a bit sad that we’re missing out on the driverless side of things. It seems like most of the meaningful deployments are happening in the US (Waymo, Cruise).
I’d really like to see either a Waymo competitor emerge in Europe, or even Waymo themselves operating here. The regulatory environment is obviously more complex, but it’d be great if we didn’t end up years behind on something this transformative.
- mtoner23 1y agoRegulation and under investment
- unfitted2545 1y agoThose darn regulators, don't they realise companies just want what's best for us?
- artursapek 1y agoThere’s obviously a balance and EU’s arrogant regulators have far exceeded it
- Hilift 1y agoOne thing you are missing out on: mandatory loud (97 to 112 db) 1000 Hz audible beep when the vehicle reversing, oh so slowly, such as at the recharging station. Also, constant shop vac five horsepower vacuum cleaner sound. BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP. VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM Oh wait, you thought those would be in the middle of nowhere? Nope. https://www.karmactive.com/waymo-charging-noise-blasts-112-decibels-near-santa-monica-homes-residents-petition/ https://www.karmactive.com/waymo-charging-noise-blasts-112-d...
- ghurtado 1y agoUnless and until those noises that you mention are as annoying as those made by present time ICE vehicles, your point will remain irrelevant.
- egypturnash 1y agoFrom the link: These backup warning systems operate at approximately 1,000 Hz, producing sound levels between 97 and 112 decibels. Santa Monica’s municipal code adds another layer of complexity, prescribing exterior noise limits of approximately 50 decibels during the day and 40 decibels at night. The continuous operation—with vehicles reversing dozens of times hourly, including during late-night hours—continues to challenge community peace. So, constant car screaming BACKUP BACKUP BACKUP I'M BACKING UP HERE right outside your residential window. Kinda sucks. A whole lot.
- Workaccount2 1y agoIronically the car is virtually purpose built to not run over people, and likewise has an extensive sensor suite to detect people around it. I suppose regulations don't care if you can see no one is behind you.
- 542354234235 1y agoIt is not mandatory that backup alarms be 97 to 112 db. They only need to be "above the surrounding noise level". The loud beeping alarms were installed on most vehicles because most of them operated at loud constructions sites, so needed to be louder than that. it was easier to just buy the loud model to CYA, even if it was a delivery truck. They also don't need to 1000 Hz or to actually beep. White noise backup alarms are allowed, and in use in many delivery trucks now, and make a sound attenuated above 4000 Hz, which is much more localized and dissipates over much shorter distances. Waymo could absolutely have installed 85dB white noise alarms but chose to install 112dB beeping alarms. This is not a regulation problem.
- fh973 1y agoMobileeye in Munich https://www.mobileye.com/blog/self-driving-robotaxi-sixt-germany-iaa/ https://www.mobileye.com/blog/self-driving-robotaxi-sixt-ger... Moia (Volkswagen) in Hamburg https://www.moia.io/en https://www.moia.io/en Mercedes autonomous driving https://group.mercedes-benz.com/innovations/product-innovation/autonomous-driving/drive-pilot-95-kmh.html https://group.mercedes-benz.com/innovations/product-innovati...
- TulliusCicero 1y agoYes, but they said "meaningful". There's some self driving tech being developed in Europe, but AFAIK nothing is at the current deployment level of Zoox or Aurora, let alone Waymo.
- lillecarl 1y agoDoes it matter where it's developed though? Once it's good enough to expand into all major US cities they could look into deploying in Europe too. Im happy to let Americans be the beta testers
- TulliusCicero 1y agoFor the consumer, maybe not, other than a delay of some years. In terms of having the industry? Absolutely. How many other areas of "tech" has Europe basically punted on and ceded to Americans? Currently there's some gnashing of teeth across the pond for how there's no real European equivalent to the big US cloud providers (AWS, Azure, GCP).
- lillecarl 1y agoThere doesn't have to be an equivalent of everything, I wouldn't want to use US cloud because of price and governance. At most I use the "cloudy" services and rent "capacity" from a European provider, companies are fleeing the cloud. They're done subsidizing Amazon deliveries. MobilEye and Mercedes works on self-driving, so does BMW. It's probably not Waymo quality, but just because there aren't cars on the (wide and car friendly) roads doesn't mean nothing is happening. Meanwhile Europe has solid infrastructure for electricity (esp France), ASML has no competition, Carl Zeizz is world leading in optics, there's probably a Leica LIDAR in the Waymo cars... I mean while we're throwing pies and bringing up other markets.. My old boss was working on a project with Leica where he was working with some partner on self-driving industrial machines, they we're using Leica gear for collosion avoidance and such. Europe doesn't need self-driving cars, we have alternative modes of transportation. Where it's needed (mines and industry) it's already there. And whatever modern car you're driving here has ADAS which helps make driving comforable.
- standardUser 1y agoApollo Go (the Chinese Waymo owned by Baidu) is planning to start road testing in Germany and the UK in 2026, in partnership with Lyft.
- ghurtado 1y ago> As a European, I can’t help but feel a bit sad that we’re missing out on the driverless side of things I don't know about other countries, but Spain will probably be one of the last ones to get it, thanks to the Uber-powerful (heh) taxi driver lobby
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> I’d really like to see either a Waymo competitor emerge in Europe, or even Waymo themselves operating here I think you’ll see American and Chinese self-driving kit in Europe once it matures. It’s just easier to iterate at home, so while the technology advances that’s where it will be.
- archagon 1y agoAs an American with extensive time spent in Europe, I’d much, much rather have European-style metros and tramways than self-driving cars. Waymo (though a technical marvel) is a bandaid over our inability to build and maintain public infrastructure. Be sure to cherish what you’ve got.
- whiplash451 1y agoEU’s amazing infrastructure is the Minitel that will prevent it from getting the internet of self-driving. Subways don’t solve last-mile problems or trucking.
- archagon 1y agoGood. Cars ruin walkable cities, and the last-mile problem can be solved in other ways. And it's not just the EU. I'm sure that e.g. China and Japan will continue to invest in their excellent public transit infrastructure even when there are more self-driving cars on the road.
- astrange 1y agoMuch of Japan's transit infrastructure is private. There's nothing special about transit that means the government has to own it; being a government, it can regulate things without owning them. Americans have this idea that transit is for poor people, which translates to "it's not important for transit to make money", which translates to "we need to make it illegal for transit to possibly try to make money", so there aren't even vending machines at the platforms. Whereas in Asia they do profitable land development at the transit stations.
- glitchc 1y ago> Much of Japan's transit infrastructure is private. There's nothing special about transit that means the government has to own it; being a government, it can regulate things without owning them. Japan's private transit infrastructure is only private in high-very high density environments (inner-city) and subsidized in low-density environments (rural, cross-country). Ultimately private group transit requires population density above a certain threshold to be viable.
- arcticbull 1y agoCars of any sort, self-driving or otherwise, do not solve traffic any more than Uber does because you need to have enough of them to get everyone to and from work at basically the same time. Trains are the only way to address traffic. Trains are self-driving. Europe already has the better self-driving system. It's just boring because self-driving is much easier when you build the road to support it instead of removing all constraints and adding GPUs, lidar sensors, cameras and an army of fall-back operators in overseas call centers.
- TNDnow 1y ago[dead]
- durandal1 1y agoTrains will fairly unreliably take you from one place that is not your home, to another place, which is not where you want to go, at a time that is probably not exactly when you wanted to arrive. Freedom of movement is incredibly important, and trains are very rigid in this aspect.
- arcticbull 1y agoTry a bicycle or a stroll instead of embracing the WALL-E. If you feel that way about transit you may not have tried a good transit option like Hong Kong MTR with 90 second headways and travel from and to substantially everywhere you want to be.
- potato3732842 1y ago>Try a bicycle or a stroll instead of embracing the WALL-E. You see a robot driving around in a pile of trash. I see a robot with nobody micromanaging him telling him how to live his life, etc, etc. <we are not the same meme dot jpeg>
- dieortin 1y agoFairly unreliably? Unlike cars, trains do not typically suffer from traffic jams.
- tuxone 1y agoMaybe there just not enough interest? After all there is good public transportation (especially rail), increasing biking habits and just loving the driving experience.
- softwaredoug 1y agoDon't worry, we're missing out on a lot of "progress" on this side of the ocean thanks to Trump's dislike of wind farms and RFK Jr's whole anti-vaxxer thing
- whiplash451 1y agoWayve?
- leesec 1y agoCruise is basically winding down. Tesla is the other major competitor
- petters 1y agoWe can’t even use Waymo when we land at SFO for a visit
- xnx 1y agoIsn't that what this article is about?
- aaomidi 1y agoUS and China basically.
- leetharris 1y agoCruise has been out of business for almost a year I think.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- aprdm 1y agoUSA is huge. This is happening in a small part of the USA in a very limited fashion. It's not like the USA has driverless cars everywhere, 99.9% of the population never saw one.
- xnx 1y agoAbout 43% of the US population lives in 25 metro areas so Waymo doesn't have to be in a lot of places to have a big impact.
- tln 1y agoI'd guess Waymo covers 5% now. San Francisco, San Jose, Los Angeles, Austin, and Phoenix are ~10% of US population. Waymo service areas don't cover all of those cities. Considering tourism and people living just outside service areas who see them but don't get to use them (which includes me sadly) I would not be surprised if 10% of population had seen at least one.
- baby 1y agoI saw one in New York the other day!
- vitus 1y ago> San Francisco, San Jose, Los Angeles, Austin, and Phoenix are ~10% of US population. Surely you're describing metro areas? There's no way those five cities add up to 34 million people within city limits, given that none of them have 6 million people. The MSAs added up to 27 million based on the 2020 census, so "close enough". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area That said, Waymo's service areas are nowhere close to covering the full MSAs: https://support.google.com/waymo/answer/9059119?hl=en https://support.google.com/waymo/answer/9059119?hl=en - SF doesn't cover East Bay (two thirds of the MSA by population). - Silicon Valley doesn't cover San Jose, and barely reaches into Sunnyvale (basically just covering the Google Moffett Park office buildings). - The Phoenix area is missing most of the densest parts of Phoenix itself, as well as anything north / west of the city. - Los Angeles doesn't even come close to covering the city, much less the rest of LA County or any of Orange County. (Maybe 2-3 million out of 13, from just eyeballing the region.) On Uber (https://support.google.com/waymo/answer/16011725?hl=en https://support.google.com/waymo/answer/16011725?hl=en) there's also Atlanta (which looks like it actually has very nice coverage, other than the western half of the city) and Austin (again focused on downtown / commercial districts) which help drive up the numbers. The population that's had opportunity to see Waymo in the wild is probably higher because they're testing in quite a few cities now (a sibling commenter mentions NYC, for instance).
- sharpshadow 1y ago“More than 50 cities across China have introduced testing-friendly policies for autonomous vehicles.”[0] Europe could do the same but they have other priorities. 0. https://restofworld.org/2025/robotaxi-waymo-apollo-go/ https://restofworld.org/2025/robotaxi-waymo-apollo-go/
- tim333 1y agoUK: >pilots of self-driving taxi- and bus-like services will be brought forward by a year to spring 2026, attracting investment and making the UK one of the world leaders in this technology
- macleginn 1y agoI'm wondering how self-driving cars will solve the priority problem of narrow streets of UK towns where drivers need to let each other pass all the time.
- tim333 1y agoI've wondered that myself. It seems quite challenging for human drivers at times. Around Ladbroke Grove you quite often get some complicated jam with two busses and about ten cars stuck.
- IshKebab 1y agoYeah I'll believe this when I see it. Most UK roads are significantly harder to drive on than anything in the US. That's why they always test these things in Milton Keynes. Also a lot of UK driving requires communication with other drivers (letting people out, etc.) in a way that US roads don't. I'm not sure how driverless cars can handle that. I really wish we could get them, because they're great. But I'd say we're talking 10 years behind the US simply because of the extra engineering challenge.
- wyager 1y ago> making the UK one of the world leaders in this technology Are they also planning on completely overhauling their economy and tax system to attract the engineers required to make this happen?
- glitchc 1y agoMercedes is quite close. They have demonstrated commercially viable Level 3 ADAS systems.
- xnx 1y agoI don't remember any plans Waymo has announced for Europe, but they are testing in Japan.
- sashank_1509 1y agoWayve seems promising. I heard they want to open up in London soon
- yieldcrv 1y ago> It seems like most of the meaningful deployments are happening in the US Because they are. Across Europe you can randomly encounter a major town with a taxi cartel still blocking rideshares, as if its 2012
- GardenLetter27 1y agoWhat do you think degrowth and decline means? Vibes and essays? It's not just driverless cars either - delivery drones (e.g. in China), a lot of health tech (as they have more check-ups in the USA), Starlink, Neuralink, a space programme, etc.
- basisword 1y agoI think navigating European roads is a massive step more difficult than US cities. They've got wide lanes and a really strict grid layout generally. At least in the European cities I'm familiar with we have much narrower lanes, residential areas with parking turning 2 lanes into 1, old towns, and layouts that are completely unpredictable. Maybe I'm wrong but I think this is the bigger hurdle than regulation.
- artursapek 1y agoElections have consequences. Your lawmakers won’t even let us use browser cookies without permission.
- wraptile 1y agoI feel the opposite. Self driving cars seem like a meme because driving is fun and trains are better. If either of those premises is not true in your geolocation then self driving is not the solution either.
- 12ian34 1y agowe have effective public transport in most major cities!
- stockerta 1y agoAs a fellow European I'm quite happy that these driverless POS's are not here. I can't even understand how int the hell are they legal over there.
- panick21_ 1y agoIn Switzerland the Airport has 28 trains per hour that connect it directly to almost every part of the country. In addition to that there is a tram line and many bus lanes. But I guess in SF they can take a taxi that might be a little cheaper because the company operating it is fine with losing 100s of millions a year.
- kjkjadksj 1y agoWaymos aren’t even really cheaper than uber lyft and traditional taxi.
- rhetocj23 1y agoYoure missing something very important. Train infrastructure in the US sucks. Not the case in the developed areas of Europe. My personal use of a car has declined pretty dramatically the past few years. Trains are pretty good here in the UK.
- sagarm 1y agoCruise is dead.
- kjkjadksj 1y agoI don’t think wages in europe are high enough to sustain this model business very well. When you track waymo deployment its in placed where plenty of high income price insensitive people are to be found.
- foxyv 1y agoI'll trade you your train network for our self driving cars!
- nektro 1y agoyou have buses and trains, you don't need waymo
- rajnathani 1y agoJYFI Cruise is “dead” after their SF accident 1-2 years ago. I believe GM has even written down their Cruise investment.