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Calling your boss a dickhead is not a sackable offence, UK tribunal rules
- nickstan 1y ago[flagged]
- olddustytrail 1y agoYou would think examples like this would demonstrate to you that your thinking was wrong, but instead you just double down on it.
- cubefox 1y agoWe already have enough evidence of people in the UK getting arrested for saying things on social media.
- IncreasePosts 1y agoIs it for saying dickhead? Or is it for things like making terroristic threats and spreading racial hatred?
- cubefox 1y agoPointing out highly increased crime rates of certain groups of asylum immigrants is not "spreading racial hatred". The emotional reaction to these crimes is a different matter.
- IncreasePosts 1y agoWhy are you asserting that's what I was talking about? In any case, I'm curious why certain folk are very interested in spreading that star, but don't spread other stats like female asylum immigrants from "certain groups" have lower crime rates than, say, white men.
- af78 1y agoLike calling for hotels housing asylum seekers to be set on fire? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3v5926yeqro https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3v5926yeqro
- joelwilliamson 1y agoShe said she wouldn’t care if the hotels were set on fire. “Set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care.” That “for all I care” changes the whole meaning of the sentence.
- olddustytrail 1y agoShe clearly disagreed with you since she pled guilty.
- olddustytrail 1y agoNo, there are examples of people saying things that break a law getting arrested. There seems to be this bizarre belief that it's fine to engage in incitement to violence, harassment or stalking, as long as it's done on social media. It's not. They would be illegal via phone calls and they're still illegal on X or Facebook.
- cubefox 1y agoMany of these things are legal in other countries, such as the US.
- rsynnott 1y agoGenerally, _inciting violence_. I mean, agree with that being punishable or not, you've got to admit that it is in a different _category_ to calling some dickhead a dickhead.
- nashashmi 1y ago> this one-off comment did not amount to gross misconduct or misconduct so serious to justify summary dismissal. So full lack of professionalism is still a ground for termination. Nothing to see here. Headline is clickbait. Spontaneous burst of anger is a small incident. Multiple small incidents can still establish a pattern of lacking professionalism. My hopes were nearly up for a second.
- idiomat9000 1y agoThe amount of choleric bosses i met, it depends .. if your boss regularly throws things after people insulting him is okay.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- anonymousDan 1y agoResult! More seriously, it seems kind of reasonable as a judgement for a one-off remark made in the heat of the moment.
- arethuza 1y agoAnd its a "scaffolding and brickwork company" - I mean have you ever heard scaffolders at work?
- xnorswap 1y agoA better summary of the ruling is that "Companies must follow their own procedures". You can't fire someone without process. The ruling is that this wasn't "gross misconduct", and proper procedure for dealing with the behaviour should have been followed. So before someone comes in claiming the UK to be an unruly anarchy, if you go around dissing the boss or your company then you'll still find yourself facing disciplinary action and could be eventually sacked, just not on the spot!
- bombcar 1y agoA quick update to the procedures that calling someone a dickhead is a fireable offense is all that is needed. You might even be able to have something generic like "verbal abuse" but then you have to be careful that it might be turned on the bosses and cause another type of lawsuit.
- WesolyKubeczek 1y ago“So, my corpus-cavernosum-for-brain boss…”
- jrockway 1y agoFrom the article: > However, this required she be given a prior warning. Only more serious breaches such as “threatening and intimidating language” would be gross misconduct and warrant summary dismissal. It seems like the prior warning is the necessary part. The company obviously wants to write the rules such that the upper management team can make a one-off stupid comment to an employee without the employee suing to get them fired. Unfortunately, this means the upper management team can't rage-fire someone with no thought. (No doubt to show how in charge and powerful they are, which kind of proves the person using the term "dickhead" right.)
- Aurornis 1y agoHR and legal across the UK are probably updating their company procedures right now to include every imaginable reason they might want to fire someone. That’s why I don’t see these rulings as a win for the common employee. The situation now encourages companies to be as broad as possible with their contracts and policies and include so many just-in-case provisions that it starts to get hard for anyone to know and follow all of them.
- alwahi 1y agodid we have to go to court to figure this out?
- yomismoaqui 1y agoUnrelated: every time I see the word dickhead I have to re-watch this work of art: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVmmYMwFj1I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVmmYMwFj1I EDIT: better version
- IncreasePosts 1y agoWhile we're here: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/VFGP7lBMAFY https://m.youtube.com/shorts/VFGP7lBMAFY
- anonymars 1y agotip, you can transform any shorts URL into the non-cancer version https://m.youtube.com/shorts/VFGP7lBMAFY https://m.youtube.com/shorts/VFGP7lBMAFY --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFGP7lBMAFY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFGP7lBMAFY
- IncreasePosts 1y agoThank you - I looked for a non-Shit, I mean non-Short version but it kept redirecting me to the shorts.
- anonymars 1y agoPotentially even easier https://youtu.be/VFGP7lBMAFY https://youtu.be/VFGP7lBMAFY
- pixelpoet 1y agoIn Germany it's fully illegal (to insult someone, generally speaking)
- arethuza 1y agoWould you be sacked immediately if you insulted your boss in the middle of a heated argument?
- echoangle 1y agoDepends on the company but I would say generally maybe not, unless you stand by it later and refuse to apologize.
- randomNumber7 1y agoIt could be worse if they report you and you get penalized by a court. Most sane companies would probably not do that, but you never know (especially in Germany)
- mingus88 1y agoIt’s worth pointing out that there will always be consequences, regardless of the legality. Insulting a C-level exec is tantamount to a professional suicide note.
- arethuza 1y agoOnly if they find out though? ;-)
- toast0 1y agoHow dense do you think your C-level is that they won't find out you called them dickheads in a meeting with them?
- ratelimitsteve 1y ago"Reviewing the Q1 results vis a vis EBITA and thinking we could take the organization in a bit less of a phallocephalic direction than current leadership seems to desire..."
- zhengyi13 1y agoI dunno about you all, but I've immediately dropped this into the team Slack channel with a Professor Farnsworth "Good News Everyone!" gif.
- dec0dedab0de 1y agoIn Philly it's the only way to get hired. Go Birds DH!!
- throw849rjrjri 1y ago[flagged]
- gorfian_robot 1y agowhat about an "asshat"? (asking for a friend)
- GJim 1y agoYou mean an arsehat? No, because in Blighty, that isn't a proper insult. People would think you odd for using silly Americanisms and simply call you a festering cheesy bellend in return.
- salawat 1y agoAsshat is like an asshole, but with an added shade of the subject being functionally useless.
- sentrysapper 1y ago'Sackable' was a great word choice. Well done Guardian.
- cwmma 1y agoThat's not a choice by the Guardian, that's the regular normal way of saying fireable in British English
- stefanos82 1y agoEnglish language can be a landmine if you are not careful, especially as a foreigner! lol
- falcor84 1y agoYou piqued my interest - in what language is the literal translation of "dickhead" not insulting? And what does it imply in that language?
- arethuza 1y agoIn the UK words like that can also equally be used as terms of endearment amongst friends... context is everything.
- falcor84 1y agoI don't think that's a UK thing, but rather just a close friends thing, which I experienced across multiple cultures. I recall a particular incident as a kid when my dad forcefully told me "Don't talk to me like that; I'm not your friend" and that stuck with me - you need to adapt your tone to the audience.
- stefanos82 1y agoThe last thing I expected was to get downvoted for just saying "English language can be a landmine if you are not careful, especially as a foreigner! lol". English language uses words such as pussy that supposedly mean a cat, but at the same time they interpret it as vagina; another word is the name Dick which also is being used to mean phallus! ...and the best one is spotted dick which is literally a British steamed pudding! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_dick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_dick Meanwhile, I get downvoted for commenting the obvious thing which is, English language is absurdly confusing for me as a foreigner and have no idea what to say without offending every English speaker!
- jonplackett 1y agoAnyone unhappy with your job - quick go call your boss a dickhead and get sacked before they read this!
- ceejayoz 1y agoCheck your employment contract first, as that was the sticking point here.
- robofanatic 1y agowell, can't you simply leave if you are unhappy?
- dfxm12 1y agoKerrie Herbert has been awarded almost £30,000 in compensation and legal costs after an employment tribunal found she had been unfairly dismissed. Not without collecting damages.
- jonplackett 1y agoExactly my point (although in obviously JOKING guys. Jeez.
- gwd 1y agoI mean, context is everything. Whether "dickhead" is unacceptable really depends on the culture of the workplace communication. If the response to someone calling you a "dickhead" is that you tell them twice to "fuck off", you're going to have a hard time making the argument that your workplace communication is expected to be explitive-free. And, "I only stayed here because of you two dickheads" is hardly toxic -- it's elegantly (by certain metrics) communicating an anguished sense of personal loyalty betrayed. In another context, where "dickhead" was really out of place in the expected communication culture, and where it was really meant to be toxic rather than used to expressed an anguished sense of betrayed loyalty, "Mrs. Jones, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to leave the building. The personal effects from your desk can be collected from reception tomorrow" might be more tolerated.
- arethuza 1y ago"anguished sense of personal loyalty betrayed" That's pretty much how I read it.
- toast0 1y agoFuck off here is the britishism meaning please leave with much haste. It's a totally appropriate term.
- cedilla 1y agoBy that argument "dickhead" is just a britishism meaning "unreasonable person" and just as appropriate.
- KaiserPro 1y agoI mean yes, yes it is, but thats clearly a pejorative, where as "i'm only here because of you two dickheads" isnt If you upgrade it to "you two fucks" it still probably isnt. "you two caaaaaaants", you would need to test if they are from glasgow or parts of london/essex
- squarefoot 1y agoIn some places being fired after a clash with someone above your level counts almost as a gift. They know so many ways to make your life miserable without being it noticeable from the outside, so that if you don't wear a tough skin and can't manage the fine art of forgetting about work problems when you walk out of the office until the following day, leaving becomes the preferable option.
- hinkley 1y agoMy bigger problem with stuff like this is the people left behind. Every firing and layoff becomes a commentary on what the company actually values versus what they should value. It’s one of the reasons I prefer to be laid off in round 2. It means they didn’t think you were the worst, but also there’s still severance and they haven’t yet rewarded the most loyal employees with the most pain.
- SilverElfin 1y ago[flagged]
- pydry 1y ago>you can’t say you like bacon Not if the subtext is very obviously "...unlike those f**ing Jews/Muslims". If there's no subtext, nobody will blink.
- 4ndrewl 1y agoSaying anything bacon related in front of the pigs (slang for police) has _always_ been a sure fire way to wind them up and get your collar felt. You're only doing that if you're looking for a scrap.
- tempfile 1y agoBut this is not a free speech issue. I don't think there is anywhere this would not be protected speech.
- 4ndrewl 1y agoThere's a difference between Free Speech - which is a power relation wrt the legislative branch, and freedom of consequences of your speech - which is a power relation wrt the executive.
- tempfile 1y agoBut what does that have to do with your comment? "a sure fire way to wind them up and get your collar felt" is more about being hassled by police, not really what power relation you have to the executive branch of the government. Also it is not really true that "free speech" and "freedom from consequences of your speech" are separate. Protecting free speech literally means protection from consequences, if there are no consequences then there's nothing to protect you from.
- 1y ago
- labrador 1y agoIn America bosses brag about being dick heads in LinkedIn posts about how being tough (an asshole) increased B2B sales.
- metalman 1y agoin Canada you can tell even the police to fuck off, but not fuck you, which generaly seems a good place to put the line, so actualy calling someone a dickhead would not be ok, comenting on the situation as bieng dicked or fucked, screwed, etc the exception would be if there was no seperation and the boss was also a sole descision maker or business owner, but in a large company a "boss" is just an employee who cant be held directly and completly resonsible for dickery.
- fooker 1y agoDo that but also save others from joining toxic teams: https://ratemymanager.fyi/ https://ratemymanager.fyi/
- OrvalWintermute 1y agowhat about a MFing SOB POS? :)
- fourseventy 1y agoI'm glad my company is in the United States. Imagine an employee calling you a dickhead to your face and not being able to fire them, ridiculous.
- BenFranklin100 1y agoAbsolutely.
- ratelimitsteve 1y agothe article makes it plain that this is a miscomprehension of the situation
- exe34 1y agohave you tried not being a dickhead?
- cindyllm 1y ago[dead]
- olddustytrail 1y agoI think you'll find the manager was also an employee.
- dudeinjapan 1y agoWhat if your boss is named Mr. Richard Head?
- ratelimitsteve 1y agoPhil O. Kephalos
- blackhaz 1y agoLawyers and judges finding ways to make money for themselves. It is obvious nothing productive will ever come out of a configuration where employee calls their boss a dickhead, and the company wants to get rid of such an employee. The only benefit of such a ruling is governments and companies spending more money on lawyers, judges, rulings and all this legal bullshittery.
- dataflow 1y ago> It is obvious nothing productive will ever come out Is someone being able to continue paying their bills and given an opportunity to find other jobs before they have to rely on safety nets unproductive? Is holding companies to their own policies unproductive? Whose perspective are you caring about here?
- Nevermark 1y agoThe recommended way to call your boss XYZ, is simply to ask your boss what the company policy implications would be, if you called them an XYZ.
- Yizahi 1y agoI love how she got compensated for legal fees. This should be noted higher in the article or even in the header, to show people that suing corporations can be safe (in some circumstances and countries).
- IAmBroom 1y agoAFAIK that's standard in the British court system.
- tialaramex 1y agoIt depends. This was an employment tribunal, and it will typically decide that both parties should pay their own costs, however the tribunal is entitled to conclude that one of the parties was sufficiently wrong that there shouldn't have been a tribunal, and so they should pay everybody's costs. This creates an incentive to settle rather than waste the tribunal's time when you're fucked. The nastiest thing I've seen is Putin, via a surrogate, files a case, court accepts despite the Russian origin, the case is bullshit and they'll lose, but when the court says "This case was a waste of our time, losers pay for everything" the surrogate's lawyers go oh, sorry, that Russian surrogate has vanished, conveniently just after paying our high fees. I think reform to ensure that either the surrogate must pay for insurance or that the state of Russia is on the hook not an amazing vanishing surrogate is needed. Or we could just penalize the hired guns, bankrupt a few millionaire law partners ?
- throw849rjrjri 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- hinkley 1y agoBut what if he objectively is a dickhead.
- RajT88 1y agoI'm not sure we should take the story at face value. Someone in the UK calling their boss a dickhead, instead of a tosser, pillock, bellend, prat, knob or wanker? Unlikely.
- apparent 1y agoWhereas in Germany, one can have their house raided for calling a politician a dick (and be investigated for calling a politician fat). [1] 1: https://nypost.com/2025/02/21/world-news/germans-cant-insult-politicians-which-is-why-we-need-to-protect-free-speech-in-the-us/ https://nypost.com/2025/02/21/world-news/germans-cant-insult...
- barbazoo 1y agoEven if there is truth to this, we sure won't find it at the NYP.
- apparent 1y agoIt's always good to verify. I noticed that that author is Rikki Schlott, who co-authored a book with the CEO of FIRE, and who also writes for Reason. If what she has reported here isn't true, feel free to let us all know. Otherwise, it seems that truth can sometimes be found at the NYP.
- barbazoo 1y ago> Germans are being arrested for insulting politicians Is there any evidence that they were actually arrested? What I found was that there was an investigation but not that there have been any arrests made.
- etc-hosts 1y agohttps://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/hamburg-wohnungsdurchsuchung-wegen-pimmelgate-war-unrechtmaessig-a-de489269-6589-453f-896f-56e728128cea https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/hamburg-wohnungsdurch...
- barbazoo 1y agoSounds like the search of the apartment was ruled disproportionate and unlawful. But no arrests were made.