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If this is a thing then the solution they offer is incorrect. A big giant red screen: “warning the identity of this application developer has not been verified
by rvnx 1y ago
If this is a thing then the solution they offer is incorrect. A big giant red screen: “warning the identity of this application developer has not been verified and this could be an application stealing your data, etc” would have worked.
What they want is to get rid of apps like YouTube Vanced that are making them lose money (and other Play Store apps)
- bb88 1y agoI've often lamented at work that we lose freedom at the guise of "security". Security and Intellectual Property (IP) protection could both be true. Google has a big enough reason to make it happen now. In a perverse way it's not that protecting Google's IP is making us safer. Yet it, strangely is.
- kylebenzle 1y ago[dead]
- paradite 1y agoIt won't work because of too many false positives. People are already trained to ignore warnings, like how they blindly accept T&C without reading.
- godelski 1y agoThis is something laughable that Apple does. Anytime you install something from Github it'll make you click a few extra boxes. And their tightening down of things also ends up making people look for third party software in the first place. All this really does is, like you said, teach people to ignore warnings.
- Ldorigo 1y agoIs it possible to install stuff from GitHub on iOS? I thought it was completely impossible on apple devices.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- jcdentonn 1y agoIt is, but you have to reinstall it every week.
- np1810 1y ago> It is, but you have to reinstall it every week. I'd greatly appreciate it if you can share the relevant link/repo for it?
- monegator 1y agoYou use sideloadly to install any ipa you want. If you don't have a developer account it will sign the application using a key with the validity of seven whole days! (instead if you have a developer account it will be valid one year, and don't forget to pay the 99€/year ransom)
- jerbear4328 1y agohttps://altstore.io https://altstore.io is the big one. You might want the AltStore fork SideStore (you can do the weekly reinstall without a computer, https://sidestore.io https://sidestore.io). Other tools exist, like https://sideloadly.io https://sideloadly.io and https://appdb.to https://appdb.to.
- zelphirkalt 1y agoGreat way to make users hate their own devices.
- jeffhuys 1y agoUnless: https://old.reddit.com/r/sideloaded/comments/1debdgh/guide_how_to_sideload_on_ios_without_expiry/ https://old.reddit.com/r/sideloaded/comments/1debdgh/guide_h...
- godelski 1y agoI was referring to OSX but if you didn't know there's a current European lawsuit going on about doing exactly this for iOS
- IshKebab 1y agoThat's just their first step. They will remove the extra boxes eventually. They already removed option-click as a workaround.
- _Algernon_ 1y agoThe way we allow paternalistic tech companies to train the consumer to abdicate personal responsibility is going to bite us in the ass sooner or later. I'm betting on sooner.
- pishpash 1y agoThen make the false positives lower. The problem is they aren't incentivized to improve such features because, where's the money in that?
- artisin 1y agoIf a giant red warning saying 'THIS APP MAY BE MALWARE' doesn't stop someone, then they've either made an informed choice to proceed or it's willful negligence. In other words, users aren't 'trained' to ignore warnings; they're simply being willfully negligent.
- daemin 1y agoAs someone who is usually careful I too have found myself clicking past warnings and error notifications in recent times, mainly because I want to do something and the software is actively preventing me from doing that. It isn't negligence, it is just wanting to get something done and not having the time or the nerves to carefully read through and think about messages, dialogs, and screens. Back in the early days of the Internet there was the Joel Spolsky article on why users will always do anything to see the dancing bunnies.
- Gigachad 1y agoIt’s because on the other side of that warning is a cracked version of Spotify that removes the adverts. The user can’t make an informed choice because it’s literally impossible to audit the safety of the app or the author. So they will click passed any warnings, follow any number of steps to install the app that gives them something desirable for free.
- ajsnigrutin 1y agoSo what? Those same users can now install facebook, and facebook does this: https://medium.com/@ak123aryan/facebooks-hidden-android-tracking-a-new-loophole-exposed-a4d548bd5656 https://medium.com/@ak123aryan/facebooks-hidden-android-trac... And facebook is and will be verified in the future too.
- IshKebab 1y agoThe fact that you don't even realise why that wouldn't work is kind of telling. > users aren't being 'trained' to ignore warnings Of course they are. Every time they click "continue anyway" and it actually isn't malware (which is 99% of the time) they are being trained that the warning is nonsense. And they're right! What use is a warning that an app might be malware, if a) it actually isn't almost every time you see the warning, and b) you have no way of telling if it is or isn't anyway? I hate this move too and I don't think they should have done "just make the warning even bigger!" is obviously dumb.
- reddalo 1y agoMaybe they shouldn't offer a "OK" button that the stupid user can blindly click. They could tell you, "this app is dangerous, go to system settings to enabled" and a "Dismiss" button.
- eptcyka 1y agoLmao, that is literally how it worked.
- Cthulhu_ 1y agoI'll point to Windows Vista that went all in on this kind of security, even giving you a big warning if you tried to change your background. The computer magazines quickly published guides on how to change a slider or registry setting to reduce the amount of stupid warnings, and the people were quickly trained to ignore and just hit OK on these screens. Anyway, Apple already does this with unknown apps downloaded from the internet, you need to go to security settings and hit a button there.
- const_cast 1y agoThere aren't too many false positives, it's just that most modern android software is malware. Saying "this will steal your data" is probably correct. So what were actually asking users is to install some malware, if it's provided by a big enough tech company, but not other malware. Of course users get confused. Just stop downloading apps altogether and run the web views in the original web view - the web browser. Will Google, Meta et al. do that and abandon their apps? Of course not, they need to install malware.
- Thorrez 1y agoHow about requiring the user to type into a text box "App Foo might be malware. I want to install it anyways."? And disable copy and paste for that box.
- godelski 1y ago> What they want is to get rid of apps like YouTube Vanced I think it is also very telling where they're rolling out first. Brazil, Indonesia, Thailand, and Singapore. It felt weird that the official press release was quoting entities from these countries, as if it should give confidence to the rest of the world. I can't imagine what these countries would want with apps that can be traced back to a government id... Vanced and such is more of a First World/Western issue. I don't think you're wrong but I got a strong gut feeling there's other pressures in the works. Just something doesn't smell right...
- DobarDabar 1y agoVance is just as big if not bigger problem there.
- godelski 1y agoSorry, I replied to a sibling comment that was nearly identical[0]. Luck(?) would have it, said other problem was made more explicit[1] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45033035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45033035 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45035699 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45035699
- Yaina 1y agoHm, not sure about that. I know from browser add-ons that markets like Brazil do suffer from increased scams, especially banking scams. I could see that this is also an issue for scam apps. Firefox for instance does not allow you to install unsigned extensions. You don't need to list them on their storefront, but they want to perform automated tests and have the ability to block extensions through this signing requirement. So in principle I can see them wanting to address a legitimate issue, but the way they are going about this is way to centralized. IMO they should do something like we have for web certificates, where vendors can add more root authorities than just the one from Google, and users should be able to add their own root certificates if they want to side load apps.
- godelski 1y ago
- Daz1 1y agoDo you like losing money?
- 0x0f_4 1y ago> Do you like losing money? what about us losing control over our own devices? do you like losing control over devices you paid for?
- concinds 1y agoPeople have no "control" over their own device if they have malware on it. The weirdo incoherent tech-chauvinism of "control" and "freedom" evidenced all over this thread is one of the most obnoxious trends on HN.
- Lucasoato 1y agoWould you give your car keys to a company, in fear that a thief might steal it?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- cesarb 1y ago> People have no "control" over their own device if they have malware on it. You are inadvertently reaching the true core of the question. The ones who have "control" over a device, are those who control the software running on it. Be it the bad guys (in the case of a malware-infested device), a giant corporation (in the case of a locked-down device), or yourself (when you can install and replace any software you want on the device).
- simonask 1y agoTheir point stands, though. The vast majority of users do not have either kind of control, so it is a very small concession to them in favor of securing their device against a malicious actor taking control. I think this is what commenters here are missing. I agree politically with the notion that people should own their devices (having full control), but the reality is not and will never be that the majority have anything but the illusion of control. Meanwhile, as these devices become increasingly necessary for people to exist at all, and the data they store becomes increasingly sensitive, the ability to theoretically install your own software is completely irrelevant compared to the risk of anything bad happening. Things that would be compromised if my phone is compromised: All private communication, bank accounts, stock portfolio, medical history, driver's license, criminal record, sexual history, grocery habits, all communication between my government and me, real estate deeds and mortgages, two-factor authentication keys, and I suppose my Steam library. Like, that's a lot. People can lose their homes. The stakes are unfathomably high here.
- supriyo-biswas 1y agoIn addition to the other perspectives already offered here, warning screens such as the one you propose were already shown for sideloaded apps, and these screens worked against Google in their lawsuit with Epic Games. So that's another contributing factor for the policy we're discussing.
- pishpash 1y agoThat was never the real reason. Security and "think of the children" to take away rights are the two oldest plays in the playbook.
- artisin 1y agoIt's such a simple and effective solution that could be implemented overnight and 'help to cut down on bad actors who hide their identity to distribute malware, commit financial fraud, or steal users personal data' tomorrow. Mission accomplished, internet saved, and everyone's happy just like a fairy tale out of the early 2000s.
- cedilla 1y ago"Displaying an angry warning message" is one of the tools we've used for decades, and never with much success.
- djrj477dhsnv 1y agoYou just have a flawed definition of success. By allowing people to shoot themselves in the foot after ignoring a unmistakable warning, you are helping teach the foolish to be more careful in the future. Making mistakes is the best way to learn something.
- Gigachad 1y agoThe end result is people just buy iPhones and perceive them to be more secure.
- ManlyBread 1y agoWho cares? It's their choice.
- GoblinSlayer 1y agohttps://sideloadly.io https://sideloadly.io
- cedilla 1y agoPeople who just ignore big banners will just tell you that "they have been hacked", as if getting hacked is like a weather phenomenon. They won't even connect them getting hacked with the big red banner. If they even notice, that is. It's just as possible that they play open relay for a year before they move to a new phone because their battery is always dying so fast for some unknown reason.
- fauigerzigerk 1y agoRight, but the whole point of warnings is to make people be more careful on average than they would otherwise be. What reason do you have to believe that this goal wasn't achieved?
- lwhi 1y agoThere will always be tangential business aims that are designed to be satisfied at the same time as the consumer benefit. To be fair though, this strategic duplicity is a technique Apple has used since Jobs; so it's not as if Google used the approach first.
- WithinReason 1y agoYou can just use the browser an ublock to browse youtube
- zelphirkalt 1y agoLet's see for how long this remains true. Every step they get closer to making you watch what they want, instead of what you want, it becomes more likely they will try to even prevent you from viewing videos when you use uBlock Origin.
- SlowTao 1y agoYep, bye Newpipe, you have been wonderful.