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> But the quality of MacBooks is just another level. I had 3 or 4 so far since 2010, and each of them held at least 5 years. Crazy good. When I read things lik

> But the quality of MacBooks is just another level. I had 3 or 4 so far since 2010, and each of them held at least 5 years. Crazy good. When I read things like this it really sounds like there is some reality distortion field in the mac world. How is that anywhere special? I'm running a thinkpad X1 as my 2 main laptops (it was my only work machine until 2 years ago) and I never felt the need to replace it. It gave me 8-10h battery life and the only issue I ever had was that 1.5 years ago the battery was reaching end of life and capacity started dropping very fast. That was just a 70$ repair I could easily do myself. My youngest daughter just inherited my mother's x220 (?) (she has been running Linux) that I got for my mother in 2011 or 2012. That never received any work and still works fine except that I didn't change the battery so you have to run it of ac power. My older daughter and my mother both just got some used thinkpads that are >3years old and don't have any issues either. So from my experience a 5 year lifetime for a macbook is really nothing special and definitely not "crazy good".

simonh 1y ago
I don’t know what he’s talking about. I’ve not had a Mac last less than 7 years as a main workhorse, and my 2014 first generation 5k 27” is still going strong as a living room machine. It could still be my daily driver to be honest.
pjerem 1y ago
I’d say it’s barely 3 things : - The trackpad (but other manufacturers now have tolerable alternatives and anyway you can work without it) - The screen : at an equivalent price point (and even more), nothing comes close to Apple screens. The cheapest MacBook have a better screen than most high end PCs. - The audio : Apple truly did some sorcery to get such an awesome sound from machines that are flat as sheet. It’s so good that you can watch a movie on your MacBook without earbuds and don’t be bothered. Everything else like build quality is overall better than most other alternatives but a few other manufacturers are also good at it. I say this as someone who uses a MacBook for work despite loving Linux and who hates what macOS have become. The hardware is really that good.
- sudosysgen 1y ago
  The screen point is just not true anymore. There are quite a few laptops at the ~1000$ price point with significantly better screens, such as the Zenbooks with OLED screens.
- lostlogin 1y ago
  Some of the Apple integrations are so great. Copy and paste between devices, airdrop, call handling and messaging, the notes app, preview app. PDF handling (my god is the windows default hot garbage in comparison). Yes, other apps and companies do this, but out the box there are some pretty great options from Apple.
  - gigatexal 1y ago
    All very true! Seamless integration with my AirPods is really nice.
  - blakblakarak 1y ago
    Using my IPad as a second monitor still feels like sorcery. I can have a dual monitor setup wherever I work without cables or fuss.
- gigatexal 1y ago
  This. My 2013 MacBook Pro lasted just shy of 10 years no issues. My m3 max mbpro I only wish was the larger screen one and not the 13 inch one … oh well. But I suspect it will last me — and be passed down as well — 8-10 years as well. The trackpads are second to none. So are the speakers. The screen are pretty good. I wish mine got even brighter but the m4s do. The keyboard is finally awesome. The OS just works. In fact I moved from Linux to MacOS. I thought I’d miss i3 and sway but with Magnet and a launcher I don’t. I live in a terminal and can split that as much as I like. And gui apps Magnet does a decent job. There are projects to go even further and you don’t have to leave MacOS for all the tiling love. https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst But I get basically everything I need with Magnet. So TLDR I used to be a huge Linux head (I still am…) but I’m practical now and tired and macOS is a small price to pay for such amazing hardware. More on why I left Linux as my main platform: https://gigatexal.blog/pages/no-perfect-workstation/no-perfect-workstation.html https://gigatexal.blog/pages/no-perfect-workstation/no-perfe...
gbalduzzi 1y ago
I believe there is a similar situation in the mobile space with iphones, at least here is Europe where they are not ubiquitous. Most people use cheaper android phones, that are slower and with a much shorted timespan. then they try a 1k€ iPhone and it is great and conclude they prefer the iPhone to Android: it is not an apple to apple comparison, you should compare it to a 1k€ android lol. Same things happens on laptops. If you try to use a 500-600€ laptop as work main machine for multiple years it will fall apart. Than you try a MacBook and it feels great because after 5 years is still usable.
- mirzap 1y ago
  You simply can't compare anything to MacBooks. I had a Dell that I paid about $2,000 for, and it was really good (or so I thought). Then at work, I got a MacBook Pro, and that's when I saw the difference. Its not only the Pros, no "high-end" laptop running Windows or Linux with just 8GB of RAM can perform better than a MacBook Air with 8GB. I don't know how Apple has optimized memory usage, but my personal feeling is that 8GB of RAM on Macs is equivalent to 32GB on non-Apple devices. I'm not some Apple fanboy—I've been using Arch Linux daily for the past month or two, and it's great. However, there isn't a day that passes without screen freezes during peak usage, and I need to reboot every day or two. This happens despite having 32GB of RAM, an RTX 4060, and a Ryzen 5 7600. That never happens with my 5-year-old MacBook Air. I really wish Linux were as good as macOS, I really do. I'm pushing myself to use it even though I experience frustration every day, but this simply isn't the case. It's easy to optimize the system and applications for one specific hardware configuration (like Apple does), but it's very hard, if not impossible, to do this for every possible hardware combination available today. That's why Linux and Windows can't win this performance battle.
  - hermanzegerman 1y ago
    You really come off as a Hardcore Apple Fanboy > Its not only the Pros, no "high-end" laptop running Windows or Linux with just 8GB of RAM can perform better than a MacBook Air with 8GB Doesn't matter because for the equivalent price you can load up your non-Apple Machine with RAM to the Max, same with SSD Storage. With a MacBook you would need to prepare to cough up, up to 9k more than the base model for a huge SSD and RAM. No more than 1k for this elsewhere > ve been using Arch Linux daily for the past month or two, and it's great. However, there isn't a day that passes without screen freezes during peak usage, and I need to reboot every day or two. I don't need to reboot for Weeks, I'm using Fedora though. It sounds like you're doing something terribly wrong, as most Linux Users also don't need to reboot ever 1-2 days. Maybe you should try a more beginner friendly distro if Arch is too complex for you
madduci 1y ago
I don't understand the claim. Since 2012 I have also.owned only Lenovo laptops and I've changed it only for a more performing one every 5/6 years, but they are still working flawlessly.
anon7000 1y ago
Well, yeah, and my mom was using my old 2012 MBP until it was a decade too. Main reason to upgrade to an M1 Air was the battery and the performance improvement that comes with a decade of processor and efficiency improvements. And I bet that’ll last another decade. I sold my previous two work MBPs back to family members as well, which they’re still using. And btw a used M1 Air, at almost 5 years old now, is still a great budget choice for anyone. Author should have just put in a longer time frame.
- hermanzegerman 1y ago
  No it isn't. If the cheap SSD inside has reached it's write limit it's a paperweight
  - rwyinuse 1y ago
    For an average user the SSD will never reach its write limit though. But I agree, SSD's should be always user-replaceable.
- cycomanic 1y ago
  As I said somewhere above, I am not trying to say that apple hardware is bad and I'm sure they last a long time (although when the battery eventually dies I heard changing that is not straight forward). My point is, that apple is not "crazy good" for making laptops that last 5 or even 10 years, that's just normal in the upper segment.
codeflo 1y ago
> 8-10h battery life If you think that's even close to good, then it's you who lives in a reality distortion field. But so are all of the PC laptop manufacturers, reviewers and buyers. I don't get it. I desperately want to move to a Linux laptop (I run it on every desktop PC I own, and I hate that I have to deal with a locked-down system). I've tried more laptops than is probably financially healthy for me. There's no price point that buys you even close to what an entry-level Macbook Air offers, not only in terms of battery life, but also weight, screen quality and keyboard.
- cycomanic 1y ago
  > > 8-10h battery life > > If you think that's even close to good, then it's you who lives in a reality distortion field. But so are all of the PC laptop manufacturers, reviewers and buyers. I don't get it. > That's a laptop from 2016, IIRC at the time that was about the same you got out of a top of the line macbook. But I'm pretty certain that 2016 macbook would not have that battery life now, while I could easily swap out the battery and am back to 10h battery life.
- noisy_boy 1y ago
  > I hate that I have to deal with a locked-down system But you don't hate a soldered down unupgradable system.
- sensanaty 1y ago
  My work-provided M1 Pro (which I got brand new out of the box) will last all day if idle, but if I'm doing literally anything like even light browsing, the battery life is around 8-10h. More like 5 when I'm running my full local dev setup.
swiftcoder 1y ago
> So from my experience a 5 year lifetime for a macbook is really nothing special and definitely not "crazy good". I doubt they are dead after 5 years - I have a number of decade+ old MacBooks kicking around the family, and they work just fine. It's more that anyone in software is going to need to upgrade around the 5 year mark anyway, because too much shit has changed in the outside world (for example, Apple's transition to ARM processors, or Windows 11 requiring recent TPM support).
- cycomanic 1y ago
  > > So from my experience a 5 year lifetime for a macbook is really nothing special and definitely not "crazy good". > > I doubt they are dead after 5 years - I have a number of decade+ old MacBooks kicking around the family, and they work just fine. > Yes I agree Apple make good quality hardware and I would be surprised if they died after 5 years. My objection is simply these statements that overly praise apple for things that are pretty bogstandard. > It's more that anyone in software is going to need to upgrade around the 5 year mark anyway, because too much shit has changed in the outside world (for example, Apple's transition to ARM processors, or Windows 11 requiring recent TPM support). One more reason to run Linux.
  - swiftcoder 1y ago
    > One more reason to run Linux. If only we could convince the platform gatekeepers to support linux. iOS is unfortunately a not inconsequential market to abandon, and there's no great way to build iOS software in a pure linux environment.
crossroadsguy 1y ago
MacBooks are great laptops until the day they break and you are out of warranty; or you are in warranty and Apple in its infinite wisdom and power decides they are not going to honour that repair. So MacBooks are laptops which you use with the constant hope that it doesn't break. So are MacBooks just another level? Of course not! If you have to use something with the constant fear of it breaking down (and then the only options remaining buying a new one or repairing at the cost often as much or sometimes more than the cost of laptop itself) then that's anything but great. But what infuriates me is people asking "but how many times has that happened?", well, enough times in about half a lifetime! And their extra warranty (which are for + or +2 years, not sure) now cost a lot more than it cost the last time (w.r.t device price) I bought their extended warranty in 2012. The problem is other than repair bankruptcy, other laptops, esp. at the lower segment of macs (Air et al), there really are not many good laptops in those prices. X1s are costly laptops. But if they offer comparable features then I'd say for repairability alone they will be great replacements. > and don't have any issues either. It's very different from something being great. While I absolutely hate Apple making their devices impossible to repair and fact more so making it an unwise decision to even try to repair for the cost, their laptops are actually quite good. But it stops there. Their phones are like ages behind competition and they have a business because of a captive/hostage user base :)
eptcyka 1y ago
I use both, have not spent money on buying personal macbooks, have bought many a thinkpad. I have had to repair far more thinkpads than I have had to get macbooks repaired, the batteries last longer on macbooks. I still prefer linux to macOS, but hardware wise, I’d much prefer an m4 to an x86 thinkpad.
socalgal2 1y ago
I agree with your point that 5yrs is not "crazy good" I have a mid 2014 15.6" Macbook Pro. It still runs fine. Apple doesn't support it though. I'm also not claiming 11 years is "crazy good" either. On the opposite side though, I don't like giving old machines to non-techies. I'm actually planning to get rid of that 2014 MBP since it's sat plugged in but basically unused for 4 years, but I don't like the idea of a non-techie taking it and not getting security updates. If someone wanted it I'd prefer they know what they're getting. Sure it will view websites, run video from youtube, etc... but no support. Runs crazy hot too.
- phantomathkg 1y ago
  Why not recycle it? I thought Apple in general can trade in old device?
  - udev4096 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - trinix912 1y ago
      Which large hardware company is any better in this aspect?
    - tomhow 1y ago
      Can you just quit with this inane style of posting, littered with juvenile swipes like this: > Crapple > Keep coping apple fanboy > it's not "your iCrap" > winblows > Clownflare We've had to ask you to observe the guidelines before, and if anything your comments are only getting worse. HN is only a place where people want to participate because (at least some) others make an effort to keep the standards up. You seem intent on dragging HN into the gutter whilst also throwing out barbs at other community members or the community as a whole. It's not clever and it's not what HN is for. Please stop this, or we'll have to ban the account.
      - udev4096 1y ago
herbst 1y ago
Every ThinkPad I ever owned is still setup and waiting to be used. My T420 is about 14 years old and I still use it from time to time. It was older than 5 years when I got it.
msh 1y ago
I think that a lot comes down to apple only selling quality laptop but a brand like Lenovo sells both cheap crap and quality laptops. So if you tell someone buy a apple laptop you know they will get a good laptop but if you tell them to buy a Lenovo they might end up with the worst crap.
- Novosell 1y ago
  I believe this is one of the main contributing factors in people who strongly prefer iOS devices over Android as well. With iOS, there are no options really. You buy high end or you don't buy. With Android, people will end up buying some 150-200€ phone and being shocked it doesn't compare to their 1100€ iPhone.
  - nicoburns 1y ago
    It's different now with the main Android manufacturers offering 5-7 years of security updates. But for a long time the lifetime of an Android device was 2 (maybe 3) years, where as iPhones offered 5 years (maybe up to 7). Perhaps not relevant if you're the sort of person who upgrades every year or two anyway. But a big deal if you're not.
- articsputnik 1y ago
  that's a good point. and for sure also one element of why we discuss using past each other here in the comments for some things
pjmlp 1y ago
Same here, my personal computers are from around 2009, the latest one from 2018, all PC laptops. At work, my Thinkpad from 2021 is still holding on, and has higher specs than entry level MacBooks from 2025.
ho_schi 1y ago
My X220 from 2012 also runs fine. I use now use a X13 because AMD Zen3+ is faster and provides much more battery runtime. The magnesium chassis and the crisp keyboard are awesome. This stuff last long: * Build quality, regarding chassis and screws. * Replacement parts are available. Hardware maintenance manual is available. A broken palm rest is something fixable. * Handle it with care. Most people don’t care about the cheap consumer laptops. Neither the manufacturer nor the consumer. Windows degrades quickly through updates, software bloat (e.g. Electron) and anti-virus snakeoil makes everything slow and unreliable. The biggest issue of ThinkPads is that the L-Series can be purchased (same hardware, bad chassis) and that bad panels can be ordered. Recently Lenovo removed the HiDPI panel option from the X13. Which is the worst possible idea. Another dumb idea is the ugly and useless camera bump protruding from the panel. Apple takes always a lot money from and prevents these mistakes. But Apple loves to deliver bad keyboards. And the aluminium chassis is bad in comparison to magnesium chassis (much better feeling, never hot or cold). Avoidable mistakes. None of these are hard challenges. As the biggest mistake “six rows keyboards”. The complete industry ruined laptop with 16:9 and after a decade we’re allowed to enjoy the much better 16:10 again. The keyboards are still small, squeezed things with awkwardly grouped keys. The X220 keyboard is a masterpiece in layout.
- dijit 1y ago
  an x220 also costed the same as a macbook pro at the time. (I know, because I had both, fully upgraded)
deleted 1y ago
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ajuc 1y ago
I bought Lenovo laptop back in 2016. It's still working - now as a media Control center. The only problems with it were LCD screen showing "deglueing" like there's a drop of transparent liquid behind the screen in 1 corner, and keyboard not working for a few keys. Neither are relevant for the current application. Both problems appeared long past 5 years of usage, more like 7-8 years after I bought it. In fact I don't remember having a computer fail on me in within 5 years since I bought it. And I was buying cheapest crap possible for majority of the last 25 years. I don't have much experience with Macs, but from talking with friends it seems they break more not less often.
articsputnik 1y ago
OP here, thanks for the comment. True, I should have elaborated a bit more. Actually my 10 years old MacBook is still running as my wife's computer and the 15 years computer, I gave to a friend, which used it for a long time (not sure if still). My comparison was with Windows PCs, that always were super slowish after 2-3 years. The built quality always felt cheap. The battery was done after 2 years. Maybe it was also an unfair comparison, that I bought cheaper PCs, but at work I recently had to a dev HP laptop much later, and I had a very similar experience. So maybe the problem is more windows than the PCs, but if you have used MacBooks, then you definitely know the difference. Running a Lenovo now, I love the much other things. Let's see how long it holds. ThinkPads are defenitely in a similar categories as Macbooks, kind of unbreakable. Love them too.
- zozbot234 1y ago
  > My comparison was with Windows PCs, that always were super slowish after 2-3 years. If a Windows PC is "super slowish" after 2-3 years, that's a Windows problem. You may want to run Linux as your main OS and booting Windows in a VM only for critical needs. Good Linux installs don't get "super slowish" at all unless you're running them on real bottom-of-the-barrel hardware.
  - articsputnik 1y ago
    agreed. that's why i moved on now from macos to linux :). also installed Omarchy linux on a very old dell laptop, and it was super fast compared to windows.
- ndriscoll 1y ago
  Definitely just a Windows issue, and even there I'm sure Windows 7 (the last usable Windows) on a 10 year old computer with an SSD would still feel fairly snappy. I use Linux on a ~9 year old computer and everything except editing photos/videos is instant. I don't know whether to expect demosaicing to be faster on newer CPUs. IIRC a new CPU might have hardware decode for 10 bit 4:2:2 h265, so that would help.
noisy_boy 1y ago
Indeed. I'm running 2019 Thinkpad X1 extreme gen 2. Runs a bit hot but still snappy with latest Fedora KDE edition. Just had to do a 100$ battery swap. The all aluminum chassis of MacBooks are lovely indeed; however considering I like the UI flexibility Linux provides and the crazy premium Apple charges for higher specs, it is pretty hard to justify.
- nullify88 1y ago
  I have an 2015 X1 3rd Generation Broadwell ticking along running Fedora KDE too. My Enter key is cracked and some of the speakers are failing, battery health at 70% was my daily driver for its initial 5 years now it primarily runs a browser and vscode. Still very capable No problems with sleep or wake, even Intel Rapid Start hibernation works although is a huge security hole.
BoredPositron 1y ago
Try to get replacement parts for a random xy-20003940-fe laptop they are not there or not there anymore after 3 years.
jeffhwang 1y ago
I’ve had 5 personal Mac laptops over the last 25 years. And all of them overlapped their service lives bc I usually had 2 active laptops at a time. None were the Pro, just iBooks and MacBook Airs. The one I just retired was my portable workhorse from 2014-2024. I got annoyed towards the end bc the latest OS wasn’t supported (but still got security updates for my old macOS version at least). Overall, I never needed to replaced battery, hard drive, cpus, screens or really any of the hardware on any of them over 2 decades. And I got at least 6 yrs out of each one.
mattbrewsbytes 1y ago
I think it comes down to quality of materials and manufacturing. It would be interesting if someone knew of failure rate data of laptop manufacturers. I bet Apple's is far lower than others, maybe this is because they control the OS and firmware, etc. I don't care enough to go research but an HN thread isn't likely representative of "normal" laptop users. I'm not an Apple fanboi, I have a lot of linux experience, back in the day built a Tivo like linux PC with TV capture card as a DVR and had to mess with all sorts of X11 settings, etc. Used to build PCs for gaming and mess with settings. The whole It Just Works is true with Apple, everything hardware wise is smooth. The annoyances of Apple software to me don't bubble up to the level of wanting to switch, but articles like above make me think about getting a cheap Mini PC to play around and see if things like Omarchy make the level of messing with settings much lower than it used to be.
nvarsj 1y ago
I’ve never had 8h of battery life on a Thinkpad. More like 3h. Also my last two T series stopped working completely after ~4 years (dead motherboard / broken usb-c ports / cracking casing). The speakers, screen, touchpad all suck as well, let's be honest. The best thing about a Thinkpad is the keyboard and that it can run Linux. I finally gave in and bought a MBP M3 Max 14" and the thing is a beast. Multiple days of battery life. Beautiful display. Indestructable casing and USB ports. Speaker quality is amazing - I can play music and podcasts in the background on it when traveling - I could never do this on any Thinkpad. The only thing it sucks at is the keyboard and OS X, but I've learned to live with both. Doubt I'll ever go back to a Thinkpad or any non-macbook laptop until a company makes a similar quality one I can run Linux on.
odo1242 1y ago
It’s true if you buy/compare a random MacBook and a random PC. A 5-year lifespan and good performance is basically guaranteed for all Macs, but you have to make sure you don’t have one of the crap Windows PCs (the ones that do stuff like spinning hard disk boot drives, motherboard attached to flimsy frame without reinforcements, 4GB RAM, etc.) Even considering this most people still tend to underestimate the lifespan of Windows PCs lol
uuddlrlrbaba 1y ago
Compare their used values at 5 years
fHr 1y ago
yep agree, people have really been brainwashed into thinking this isn't normal wtf
W3zzy 1y ago
We run dell or HP laptops at work. After 3 years they get replaced. I usually buy my old work laptop to use it for personal use or to hand off to my family. Tge first one I bought in that way is still working after 14 years. I converted it from Windows to Linux a few years ago and My mother uses it for browsing, banking and email. Personally I'm using a 7 years old HP. Batteries get upgraded when necessary and first thin I do after buying is adding RAM. I don't get how 5 years is a good lifespan on a Mac?
- baq 1y ago
  The point is corporate wouldn’t need to replace the Apple MacBooks after 3 years. I’ve got an M1 air bought what feels forever ago and it’s still as fast as I need it to be. I’ve also been using hp laptops in my previous job and they couldn’t even wake from sleep when needed (but would wake in backpacks to the point IT explicitly forbade putting sleeping laptops in bags. Absurd.)
  - sensanaty 1y ago
    IME they do anyways? They won't replace every single device every 3 years, but most companies I've worked for will do refreshes every 3-5 years, Mac or not
  - W3zzy 1y ago
    They do so because it's a tax thing. After three years the devices aren't deductible anymore. Benefit of the whole roulette is that all our devices are constantly under extends warranty so most defects are covered. It turned out to cost more to keep these devices for longer that to replace them every three year.
  - W3zzy 1y ago
    THE WAKE FROM SLEEP IS TERRIBLY ANNOYING INDEED!!
footy 1y ago
I had a MacBook once that lasted for 13 years, and that's what I used to assume people meant by "crazy good lifespan". Once on this site I saw someone talking about how the lifespan is so good they only had to replace their MacBook every two years instead of every year, and it just made me realize "crazy good lifespan" is meaningless.
- joaogui1 1y ago
  Not necessarily meaningless, but maybe relative, i.e. a person who generally replaces non-Apple laptops every X years would replace MacBooks every Y years, with Y > X
amelius 1y ago
> it really sounds like there is some reality distortion field in the mac world It's probably because when everybody including your mom and dad has an Apple device, you really need something like the RDF to stay cool. Anyway, I don't understand the evangelism around Apple. Evangelism is by definition toxic.
- slater 1y ago
  Yes, it couldn't possibly be because, y'know, Apple devices are actually good.
  - amelius 1y ago
    The parent poster said that other brands are good too. The evangelism will get you nowhere but a place where one company dictates everything.
throwaway31131 1y ago
Defect rate is a probability distribution so some people will get 10 heads in a row and others will get 10 tails, and since it’s the internet, and since it’s kinda amazing we hear about both. But most people get a mixture and post nothing. Every IT survey I’ve ever seen shows Macs as more reliable. On the other hand the repairs are often more expensive. So there’s a trade off. For me, my M1 16” is a champ. The computer is almost too good. I’d like to upgrade but honestly there’s no reason to so I just can’t get myself to ditch a perfectly good computer.
deleted 1y ago
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deltarholamda 1y ago
I set up some Thinkpads from (I think) 2004 to use during Covid when some employees were doing work from home. Replaced the rust drive with an SSD and they used VNC to get onto their work desktops. It's a CAD shop with most everything on the server, so it's not feasible to do WFH with a laptop (not enough grunt, moving data over the Internet is slow), and it made much more sense to just do VNC. This worked quite well. The Thinkpads were even (just) fast enough to do YouTube. The point is that it really quite depends on what your workload is. If I made them use AutoCAD on these machines from 2004 they'd quit. This particular workflow was not ideal, but doable. I have a 2020 M1 MB Air that I would love to replace, but it would be daft to. I don't bump up against any limitations. One of my kids uses my old 2011 MB Pro for his school, which granted I did upgrade to an SSD as well, but even so it's quite usable. Mac hardware has been pretty consistently good for a very long time. They've had some stinkers (hello MacTV), but otherwise you can usually depend on them. Like others I'm not thrilled with some of the OS changes, but the alternatives aren't a lot better. Windows keeps shooting itself in the foot, and chasing the Linux desktop is an exercise best left to those young enough to have the patience. I'm so done with distro-hopping.
coliveira 1y ago
I think the issue of 5 years is not hardware, but software instead. Windows gets somehow bloated and unusable after a few years. Every time I used Windows machines they have to be reinstalled with the OS after some time. With macs I have been using them non-stop since 2010 and never had that problem.
conradev 1y ago
Also worth noting that Apple actually defines and decides the lifetime of their own computers using software support, whereas Windows and Linux typically support hardware indefinitely (that might be changing with Windows 11). My sister had a 2011 MacBook Air until it stopped getting software updates in 2020.
jaredklewis 1y ago
IME I tend to get a new MacBook every five years or so just because I like new hardware, but none of my old MacBooks were anywhere near end of life after 5 years. One I gave to a relative was in use for around 13 years until it failed (but it was really abused so I actually think it was a good run). My wife’s MacBook Air is 12 years old and my wife doesn’t want a new one (though it would drive me crazy). No issues yet, though obviously battery is not what it once was. Anyway, I think MacBooks last much longer than 5 years if you can control your new hardware envy.
- ericmcer 1y ago
  My gf uses my ~10yo air and it is amazing she can stand it. Just website inefficiency creep has made older devices obsolete, I think it has around 4gb of Ram which Chrome can chew through with a few tabs open.
anonzzzies 1y ago
I like thinkpads and use my x220 from 2012 or what is it quite a lot. For my work, it beat my mbp 16' intel one I had in 2019 on just feeling faster (with Linux). But the apple silicon airs (for me airs: pros are just too bulky) ones are not beaten at the moment. And I try a lot as I really want to run Linux and not mac os x. But there is nothing better for many reasons (most mentioned here and yeah I could care less about the sound). I sponsor asahi linux for that reason. If Chinese vendors would be smart, they would open up whatever hardware they ship and get all geeks on board which pushes the rest. They are not though so for now, it's macbook airs for me. Hoping for Frame.work to get there though.
jayd16 1y ago
Fit and finish is good and Apple has been good at leveraging minimalist designs in premium materials. Even if a MacBook is very old, it's hard to say it looks or feels old. And the real irony is past 5 years it drops off a cliff because of Intel Mac End of life. Most people really don't care about tech specs for a daily driver. I mean, I love specs but my coffee table laptop is a Google Pixelbook (2017) with a metal body and ancient junk inside, but it still feels good to use.
turtlebits 1y ago
Nothing matches the build quality, display and general feel of macbooks. IME, (possibly outdated), but thinkpads have some of the worst quality displays I've ever seen.
- SXX 1y ago
  Thinkpad x1 do have good 2.8K displays, but almost everywhere around the world they just far more expensive than comparable Macbook Air.
unethical_ban 1y ago
Yes they are that good, and "lasting five years" might not mean physically functioning vs not. It could be "meets my computing needs". Yes it could also mean "before the nonservicable battery dies". I have a 2008 Acer, a 2018 Thinkpad, a 2019 HP, a 2024 framework, and a 2024 MacBook. I can't stand 1080p for personal use anymore, and never in my life on Windows or Linux have I gotten more than 4 hours out of a battery. Framework competes on repairability, price and OS choice. Pound for pound, MacBook is a much better piece of hardware.
- setopt 1y ago
  My 2021 M1 MacBook is still good, but my 2020 Intel MacBook Air (16GB RAM) has felt unusable since 2022 or so. After upgrading macOS past Big Sur it just got unusably slow, would randomly hang or have high idle CPU usage, battery power was short lived, and it was constantly hot. I therefore downgraded it to Catalina and was happy to have my laptop back, until Homebrew and App Store wouldn’t let me install new things anymore, then I upgraded it to the latest macOS again and found it unusable again. Now I’m not sure whether to install Linux on it (I’ve used Linux as my main OS before the Mac), or try to downgrade to Catalina again and just build whatever software I need from source.

simonh 1y ago

I don’t know what he’s talking about. I’ve not had a Mac last less than 7 years as a main workhorse, and my 2014 first generation 5k 27” is still going strong as a living room machine. It could still be my daily driver to be honest.

pjerem 1y ago

I’d say it’s barely 3 things : - The trackpad (but other manufacturers now have tolerable alternatives and anyway you can work without it) - The screen : at an equivalent price point (and even more), nothing comes close to Apple screens. The cheapest MacBook have a better screen than most high end PCs. - The audio : Apple truly did some sorcery to get such an awesome sound from machines that are flat as sheet. It’s so good that you can watch a movie on your MacBook without earbuds and don’t be bothered. Everything else like build quality is overall better than most other alternatives but a few other manufacturers are also good at it. I say this as someone who uses a MacBook for work despite loving Linux and who hates what macOS have become. The hardware is really that good.

sudosysgen 1y ago
The screen point is just not true anymore. There are quite a few laptops at the ~1000$ price point with significantly better screens, such as the Zenbooks with OLED screens.
lostlogin 1y ago
Some of the Apple integrations are so great. Copy and paste between devices, airdrop, call handling and messaging, the notes app, preview app. PDF handling (my god is the windows default hot garbage in comparison). Yes, other apps and companies do this, but out the box there are some pretty great options from Apple.
- gigatexal 1y ago
  All very true! Seamless integration with my AirPods is really nice.
- blakblakarak 1y ago
  Using my IPad as a second monitor still feels like sorcery. I can have a dual monitor setup wherever I work without cables or fuss.
gigatexal 1y ago
This. My 2013 MacBook Pro lasted just shy of 10 years no issues. My m3 max mbpro I only wish was the larger screen one and not the 13 inch one … oh well. But I suspect it will last me — and be passed down as well — 8-10 years as well. The trackpads are second to none. So are the speakers. The screen are pretty good. I wish mine got even brighter but the m4s do. The keyboard is finally awesome. The OS just works. In fact I moved from Linux to MacOS. I thought I’d miss i3 and sway but with Magnet and a launcher I don’t. I live in a terminal and can split that as much as I like. And gui apps Magnet does a decent job. There are projects to go even further and you don’t have to leave MacOS for all the tiling love. https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst But I get basically everything I need with Magnet. So TLDR I used to be a huge Linux head (I still am…) but I’m practical now and tired and macOS is a small price to pay for such amazing hardware. More on why I left Linux as my main platform: https://gigatexal.blog/pages/no-perfect-workstation/no-perfect-workstation.html https://gigatexal.blog/pages/no-perfect-workstation/no-perfe...

gbalduzzi 1y ago

I believe there is a similar situation in the mobile space with iphones, at least here is Europe where they are not ubiquitous. Most people use cheaper android phones, that are slower and with a much shorted timespan. then they try a 1k€ iPhone and it is great and conclude they prefer the iPhone to Android: it is not an apple to apple comparison, you should compare it to a 1k€ android lol. Same things happens on laptops. If you try to use a 500-600€ laptop as work main machine for multiple years it will fall apart. Than you try a MacBook and it feels great because after 5 years is still usable.

mirzap 1y ago
You simply can't compare anything to MacBooks. I had a Dell that I paid about $2,000 for, and it was really good (or so I thought). Then at work, I got a MacBook Pro, and that's when I saw the difference. Its not only the Pros, no "high-end" laptop running Windows or Linux with just 8GB of RAM can perform better than a MacBook Air with 8GB. I don't know how Apple has optimized memory usage, but my personal feeling is that 8GB of RAM on Macs is equivalent to 32GB on non-Apple devices. I'm not some Apple fanboy—I've been using Arch Linux daily for the past month or two, and it's great. However, there isn't a day that passes without screen freezes during peak usage, and I need to reboot every day or two. This happens despite having 32GB of RAM, an RTX 4060, and a Ryzen 5 7600. That never happens with my 5-year-old MacBook Air. I really wish Linux were as good as macOS, I really do. I'm pushing myself to use it even though I experience frustration every day, but this simply isn't the case. It's easy to optimize the system and applications for one specific hardware configuration (like Apple does), but it's very hard, if not impossible, to do this for every possible hardware combination available today. That's why Linux and Windows can't win this performance battle.
- hermanzegerman 1y ago
  You really come off as a Hardcore Apple Fanboy > Its not only the Pros, no "high-end" laptop running Windows or Linux with just 8GB of RAM can perform better than a MacBook Air with 8GB Doesn't matter because for the equivalent price you can load up your non-Apple Machine with RAM to the Max, same with SSD Storage. With a MacBook you would need to prepare to cough up, up to 9k more than the base model for a huge SSD and RAM. No more than 1k for this elsewhere > ve been using Arch Linux daily for the past month or two, and it's great. However, there isn't a day that passes without screen freezes during peak usage, and I need to reboot every day or two. I don't need to reboot for Weeks, I'm using Fedora though. It sounds like you're doing something terribly wrong, as most Linux Users also don't need to reboot ever 1-2 days. Maybe you should try a more beginner friendly distro if Arch is too complex for you

madduci 1y ago

I don't understand the claim. Since 2012 I have also.owned only Lenovo laptops and I've changed it only for a more performing one every 5/6 years, but they are still working flawlessly.

anon7000 1y ago

Well, yeah, and my mom was using my old 2012 MBP until it was a decade too. Main reason to upgrade to an M1 Air was the battery and the performance improvement that comes with a decade of processor and efficiency improvements. And I bet that’ll last another decade. I sold my previous two work MBPs back to family members as well, which they’re still using. And btw a used M1 Air, at almost 5 years old now, is still a great budget choice for anyone. Author should have just put in a longer time frame.

hermanzegerman 1y ago
No it isn't. If the cheap SSD inside has reached it's write limit it's a paperweight
- rwyinuse 1y ago
  For an average user the SSD will never reach its write limit though. But I agree, SSD's should be always user-replaceable.
cycomanic 1y ago
As I said somewhere above, I am not trying to say that apple hardware is bad and I'm sure they last a long time (although when the battery eventually dies I heard changing that is not straight forward). My point is, that apple is not "crazy good" for making laptops that last 5 or even 10 years, that's just normal in the upper segment.

codeflo 1y ago

> 8-10h battery life If you think that's even close to good, then it's you who lives in a reality distortion field. But so are all of the PC laptop manufacturers, reviewers and buyers. I don't get it. I desperately want to move to a Linux laptop (I run it on every desktop PC I own, and I hate that I have to deal with a locked-down system). I've tried more laptops than is probably financially healthy for me. There's no price point that buys you even close to what an entry-level Macbook Air offers, not only in terms of battery life, but also weight, screen quality and keyboard.

cycomanic 1y ago
> > 8-10h battery life > > If you think that's even close to good, then it's you who lives in a reality distortion field. But so are all of the PC laptop manufacturers, reviewers and buyers. I don't get it. > That's a laptop from 2016, IIRC at the time that was about the same you got out of a top of the line macbook. But I'm pretty certain that 2016 macbook would not have that battery life now, while I could easily swap out the battery and am back to 10h battery life.
noisy_boy 1y ago
> I hate that I have to deal with a locked-down system But you don't hate a soldered down unupgradable system.
sensanaty 1y ago
My work-provided M1 Pro (which I got brand new out of the box) will last all day if idle, but if I'm doing literally anything like even light browsing, the battery life is around 8-10h. More like 5 when I'm running my full local dev setup.

swiftcoder 1y ago

> So from my experience a 5 year lifetime for a macbook is really nothing special and definitely not "crazy good". I doubt they are dead after 5 years - I have a number of decade+ old MacBooks kicking around the family, and they work just fine. It's more that anyone in software is going to need to upgrade around the 5 year mark anyway, because too much shit has changed in the outside world (for example, Apple's transition to ARM processors, or Windows 11 requiring recent TPM support).

cycomanic 1y ago
> > So from my experience a 5 year lifetime for a macbook is really nothing special and definitely not "crazy good". > > I doubt they are dead after 5 years - I have a number of decade+ old MacBooks kicking around the family, and they work just fine. > Yes I agree Apple make good quality hardware and I would be surprised if they died after 5 years. My objection is simply these statements that overly praise apple for things that are pretty bogstandard. > It's more that anyone in software is going to need to upgrade around the 5 year mark anyway, because too much shit has changed in the outside world (for example, Apple's transition to ARM processors, or Windows 11 requiring recent TPM support). One more reason to run Linux.
- swiftcoder 1y ago
  > One more reason to run Linux. If only we could convince the platform gatekeepers to support linux. iOS is unfortunately a not inconsequential market to abandon, and there's no great way to build iOS software in a pure linux environment.

crossroadsguy 1y ago

MacBooks are great laptops until the day they break and you are out of warranty; or you are in warranty and Apple in its infinite wisdom and power decides they are not going to honour that repair. So MacBooks are laptops which you use with the constant hope that it doesn't break. So are MacBooks just another level? Of course not! If you have to use something with the constant fear of it breaking down (and then the only options remaining buying a new one or repairing at the cost often as much or sometimes more than the cost of laptop itself) then that's anything but great. But what infuriates me is people asking "but how many times has that happened?", well, enough times in about half a lifetime! And their extra warranty (which are for + or +2 years, not sure) now cost a lot more than it cost the last time (w.r.t device price) I bought their extended warranty in 2012. The problem is other than repair bankruptcy, other laptops, esp. at the lower segment of macs (Air et al), there really are not many good laptops in those prices. X1s are costly laptops. But if they offer comparable features then I'd say for repairability alone they will be great replacements. > and don't have any issues either. It's very different from something being great. While I absolutely hate Apple making their devices impossible to repair and fact more so making it an unwise decision to even try to repair for the cost, their laptops are actually quite good. But it stops there. Their phones are like ages behind competition and they have a business because of a captive/hostage user base :)

eptcyka 1y ago

I use both, have not spent money on buying personal macbooks, have bought many a thinkpad. I have had to repair far more thinkpads than I have had to get macbooks repaired, the batteries last longer on macbooks. I still prefer linux to macOS, but hardware wise, I’d much prefer an m4 to an x86 thinkpad.

socalgal2 1y ago

I agree with your point that 5yrs is not "crazy good" I have a mid 2014 15.6" Macbook Pro. It still runs fine. Apple doesn't support it though. I'm also not claiming 11 years is "crazy good" either. On the opposite side though, I don't like giving old machines to non-techies. I'm actually planning to get rid of that 2014 MBP since it's sat plugged in but basically unused for 4 years, but I don't like the idea of a non-techie taking it and not getting security updates. If someone wanted it I'd prefer they know what they're getting. Sure it will view websites, run video from youtube, etc... but no support. Runs crazy hot too.

phantomathkg 1y ago
Why not recycle it? I thought Apple in general can trade in old device?
- udev4096 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - trinix912 1y ago
    Which large hardware company is any better in this aspect?
  - tomhow 1y ago
    Can you just quit with this inane style of posting, littered with juvenile swipes like this: > Crapple > Keep coping apple fanboy > it's not "your iCrap" > winblows > Clownflare We've had to ask you to observe the guidelines before, and if anything your comments are only getting worse. HN is only a place where people want to participate because (at least some) others make an effort to keep the standards up. You seem intent on dragging HN into the gutter whilst also throwing out barbs at other community members or the community as a whole. It's not clever and it's not what HN is for. Please stop this, or we'll have to ban the account.
    - udev4096 1y ago

herbst 1y ago

Every ThinkPad I ever owned is still setup and waiting to be used. My T420 is about 14 years old and I still use it from time to time. It was older than 5 years when I got it.

msh 1y ago

I think that a lot comes down to apple only selling quality laptop but a brand like Lenovo sells both cheap crap and quality laptops. So if you tell someone buy a apple laptop you know they will get a good laptop but if you tell them to buy a Lenovo they might end up with the worst crap.

Novosell 1y ago
I believe this is one of the main contributing factors in people who strongly prefer iOS devices over Android as well. With iOS, there are no options really. You buy high end or you don't buy. With Android, people will end up buying some 150-200€ phone and being shocked it doesn't compare to their 1100€ iPhone.
- nicoburns 1y ago
  It's different now with the main Android manufacturers offering 5-7 years of security updates. But for a long time the lifetime of an Android device was 2 (maybe 3) years, where as iPhones offered 5 years (maybe up to 7). Perhaps not relevant if you're the sort of person who upgrades every year or two anyway. But a big deal if you're not.
articsputnik 1y ago
that's a good point. and for sure also one element of why we discuss using past each other here in the comments for some things

pjmlp 1y ago

Same here, my personal computers are from around 2009, the latest one from 2018, all PC laptops. At work, my Thinkpad from 2021 is still holding on, and has higher specs than entry level MacBooks from 2025.

ho_schi 1y ago

My X220 from 2012 also runs fine. I use now use a X13 because AMD Zen3+ is faster and provides much more battery runtime. The magnesium chassis and the crisp keyboard are awesome. This stuff last long: * Build quality, regarding chassis and screws. * Replacement parts are available. Hardware maintenance manual is available. A broken palm rest is something fixable. * Handle it with care. Most people don’t care about the cheap consumer laptops. Neither the manufacturer nor the consumer. Windows degrades quickly through updates, software bloat (e.g. Electron) and anti-virus snakeoil makes everything slow and unreliable. The biggest issue of ThinkPads is that the L-Series can be purchased (same hardware, bad chassis) and that bad panels can be ordered. Recently Lenovo removed the HiDPI panel option from the X13. Which is the worst possible idea. Another dumb idea is the ugly and useless camera bump protruding from the panel. Apple takes always a lot money from and prevents these mistakes. But Apple loves to deliver bad keyboards. And the aluminium chassis is bad in comparison to magnesium chassis (much better feeling, never hot or cold). Avoidable mistakes. None of these are hard challenges. As the biggest mistake “six rows keyboards”. The complete industry ruined laptop with 16:9 and after a decade we’re allowed to enjoy the much better 16:10 again. The keyboards are still small, squeezed things with awkwardly grouped keys. The X220 keyboard is a masterpiece in layout.

dijit 1y ago
an x220 also costed the same as a macbook pro at the time. (I know, because I had both, fully upgraded)

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

ajuc 1y ago

I bought Lenovo laptop back in 2016. It's still working - now as a media Control center. The only problems with it were LCD screen showing "deglueing" like there's a drop of transparent liquid behind the screen in 1 corner, and keyboard not working for a few keys. Neither are relevant for the current application. Both problems appeared long past 5 years of usage, more like 7-8 years after I bought it. In fact I don't remember having a computer fail on me in within 5 years since I bought it. And I was buying cheapest crap possible for majority of the last 25 years. I don't have much experience with Macs, but from talking with friends it seems they break more not less often.

articsputnik 1y ago

OP here, thanks for the comment. True, I should have elaborated a bit more. Actually my 10 years old MacBook is still running as my wife's computer and the 15 years computer, I gave to a friend, which used it for a long time (not sure if still). My comparison was with Windows PCs, that always were super slowish after 2-3 years. The built quality always felt cheap. The battery was done after 2 years. Maybe it was also an unfair comparison, that I bought cheaper PCs, but at work I recently had to a dev HP laptop much later, and I had a very similar experience. So maybe the problem is more windows than the PCs, but if you have used MacBooks, then you definitely know the difference. Running a Lenovo now, I love the much other things. Let's see how long it holds. ThinkPads are defenitely in a similar categories as Macbooks, kind of unbreakable. Love them too.

zozbot234 1y ago
> My comparison was with Windows PCs, that always were super slowish after 2-3 years. If a Windows PC is "super slowish" after 2-3 years, that's a Windows problem. You may want to run Linux as your main OS and booting Windows in a VM only for critical needs. Good Linux installs don't get "super slowish" at all unless you're running them on real bottom-of-the-barrel hardware.
- articsputnik 1y ago
  agreed. that's why i moved on now from macos to linux :). also installed Omarchy linux on a very old dell laptop, and it was super fast compared to windows.
ndriscoll 1y ago
Definitely just a Windows issue, and even there I'm sure Windows 7 (the last usable Windows) on a 10 year old computer with an SSD would still feel fairly snappy. I use Linux on a ~9 year old computer and everything except editing photos/videos is instant. I don't know whether to expect demosaicing to be faster on newer CPUs. IIRC a new CPU might have hardware decode for 10 bit 4:2:2 h265, so that would help.

noisy_boy 1y ago

Indeed. I'm running 2019 Thinkpad X1 extreme gen 2. Runs a bit hot but still snappy with latest Fedora KDE edition. Just had to do a 100$ battery swap. The all aluminum chassis of MacBooks are lovely indeed; however considering I like the UI flexibility Linux provides and the crazy premium Apple charges for higher specs, it is pretty hard to justify.

nullify88 1y ago
I have an 2015 X1 3rd Generation Broadwell ticking along running Fedora KDE too. My Enter key is cracked and some of the speakers are failing, battery health at 70% was my daily driver for its initial 5 years now it primarily runs a browser and vscode. Still very capable No problems with sleep or wake, even Intel Rapid Start hibernation works although is a huge security hole.

BoredPositron 1y ago

Try to get replacement parts for a random xy-20003940-fe laptop they are not there or not there anymore after 3 years.

jeffhwang 1y ago

I’ve had 5 personal Mac laptops over the last 25 years. And all of them overlapped their service lives bc I usually had 2 active laptops at a time. None were the Pro, just iBooks and MacBook Airs. The one I just retired was my portable workhorse from 2014-2024. I got annoyed towards the end bc the latest OS wasn’t supported (but still got security updates for my old macOS version at least). Overall, I never needed to replaced battery, hard drive, cpus, screens or really any of the hardware on any of them over 2 decades. And I got at least 6 yrs out of each one.

mattbrewsbytes 1y ago

I think it comes down to quality of materials and manufacturing. It would be interesting if someone knew of failure rate data of laptop manufacturers. I bet Apple's is far lower than others, maybe this is because they control the OS and firmware, etc. I don't care enough to go research but an HN thread isn't likely representative of "normal" laptop users. I'm not an Apple fanboi, I have a lot of linux experience, back in the day built a Tivo like linux PC with TV capture card as a DVR and had to mess with all sorts of X11 settings, etc. Used to build PCs for gaming and mess with settings. The whole It Just Works is true with Apple, everything hardware wise is smooth. The annoyances of Apple software to me don't bubble up to the level of wanting to switch, but articles like above make me think about getting a cheap Mini PC to play around and see if things like Omarchy make the level of messing with settings much lower than it used to be.

nvarsj 1y ago

I’ve never had 8h of battery life on a Thinkpad. More like 3h. Also my last two T series stopped working completely after ~4 years (dead motherboard / broken usb-c ports / cracking casing). The speakers, screen, touchpad all suck as well, let's be honest. The best thing about a Thinkpad is the keyboard and that it can run Linux. I finally gave in and bought a MBP M3 Max 14" and the thing is a beast. Multiple days of battery life. Beautiful display. Indestructable casing and USB ports. Speaker quality is amazing - I can play music and podcasts in the background on it when traveling - I could never do this on any Thinkpad. The only thing it sucks at is the keyboard and OS X, but I've learned to live with both. Doubt I'll ever go back to a Thinkpad or any non-macbook laptop until a company makes a similar quality one I can run Linux on.

odo1242 1y ago

It’s true if you buy/compare a random MacBook and a random PC. A 5-year lifespan and good performance is basically guaranteed for all Macs, but you have to make sure you don’t have one of the crap Windows PCs (the ones that do stuff like spinning hard disk boot drives, motherboard attached to flimsy frame without reinforcements, 4GB RAM, etc.) Even considering this most people still tend to underestimate the lifespan of Windows PCs lol

uuddlrlrbaba 1y ago

Compare their used values at 5 years

fHr 1y ago

yep agree, people have really been brainwashed into thinking this isn't normal wtf

W3zzy 1y ago

We run dell or HP laptops at work. After 3 years they get replaced. I usually buy my old work laptop to use it for personal use or to hand off to my family. Tge first one I bought in that way is still working after 14 years. I converted it from Windows to Linux a few years ago and My mother uses it for browsing, banking and email. Personally I'm using a 7 years old HP. Batteries get upgraded when necessary and first thin I do after buying is adding RAM. I don't get how 5 years is a good lifespan on a Mac?

baq 1y ago
The point is corporate wouldn’t need to replace the Apple MacBooks after 3 years. I’ve got an M1 air bought what feels forever ago and it’s still as fast as I need it to be. I’ve also been using hp laptops in my previous job and they couldn’t even wake from sleep when needed (but would wake in backpacks to the point IT explicitly forbade putting sleeping laptops in bags. Absurd.)
- sensanaty 1y ago
  IME they do anyways? They won't replace every single device every 3 years, but most companies I've worked for will do refreshes every 3-5 years, Mac or not
- W3zzy 1y ago
  They do so because it's a tax thing. After three years the devices aren't deductible anymore. Benefit of the whole roulette is that all our devices are constantly under extends warranty so most defects are covered. It turned out to cost more to keep these devices for longer that to replace them every three year.
- W3zzy 1y ago
  THE WAKE FROM SLEEP IS TERRIBLY ANNOYING INDEED!!

footy 1y ago

I had a MacBook once that lasted for 13 years, and that's what I used to assume people meant by "crazy good lifespan". Once on this site I saw someone talking about how the lifespan is so good they only had to replace their MacBook every two years instead of every year, and it just made me realize "crazy good lifespan" is meaningless.

joaogui1 1y ago
Not necessarily meaningless, but maybe relative, i.e. a person who generally replaces non-Apple laptops every X years would replace MacBooks every Y years, with Y > X

amelius 1y ago

> it really sounds like there is some reality distortion field in the mac world It's probably because when everybody including your mom and dad has an Apple device, you really need something like the RDF to stay cool. Anyway, I don't understand the evangelism around Apple. Evangelism is by definition toxic.

slater 1y ago
Yes, it couldn't possibly be because, y'know, Apple devices are actually good.
- amelius 1y ago
  The parent poster said that other brands are good too. The evangelism will get you nowhere but a place where one company dictates everything.

throwaway31131 1y ago

Defect rate is a probability distribution so some people will get 10 heads in a row and others will get 10 tails, and since it’s the internet, and since it’s kinda amazing we hear about both. But most people get a mixture and post nothing. Every IT survey I’ve ever seen shows Macs as more reliable. On the other hand the repairs are often more expensive. So there’s a trade off. For me, my M1 16” is a champ. The computer is almost too good. I’d like to upgrade but honestly there’s no reason to so I just can’t get myself to ditch a perfectly good computer.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

deltarholamda 1y ago

I set up some Thinkpads from (I think) 2004 to use during Covid when some employees were doing work from home. Replaced the rust drive with an SSD and they used VNC to get onto their work desktops. It's a CAD shop with most everything on the server, so it's not feasible to do WFH with a laptop (not enough grunt, moving data over the Internet is slow), and it made much more sense to just do VNC. This worked quite well. The Thinkpads were even (just) fast enough to do YouTube. The point is that it really quite depends on what your workload is. If I made them use AutoCAD on these machines from 2004 they'd quit. This particular workflow was not ideal, but doable. I have a 2020 M1 MB Air that I would love to replace, but it would be daft to. I don't bump up against any limitations. One of my kids uses my old 2011 MB Pro for his school, which granted I did upgrade to an SSD as well, but even so it's quite usable. Mac hardware has been pretty consistently good for a very long time. They've had some stinkers (hello MacTV), but otherwise you can usually depend on them. Like others I'm not thrilled with some of the OS changes, but the alternatives aren't a lot better. Windows keeps shooting itself in the foot, and chasing the Linux desktop is an exercise best left to those young enough to have the patience. I'm so done with distro-hopping.

coliveira 1y ago

I think the issue of 5 years is not hardware, but software instead. Windows gets somehow bloated and unusable after a few years. Every time I used Windows machines they have to be reinstalled with the OS after some time. With macs I have been using them non-stop since 2010 and never had that problem.

conradev 1y ago

Also worth noting that Apple actually defines and decides the lifetime of their own computers using software support, whereas Windows and Linux typically support hardware indefinitely (that might be changing with Windows 11). My sister had a 2011 MacBook Air until it stopped getting software updates in 2020.

jaredklewis 1y ago

IME I tend to get a new MacBook every five years or so just because I like new hardware, but none of my old MacBooks were anywhere near end of life after 5 years. One I gave to a relative was in use for around 13 years until it failed (but it was really abused so I actually think it was a good run). My wife’s MacBook Air is 12 years old and my wife doesn’t want a new one (though it would drive me crazy). No issues yet, though obviously battery is not what it once was. Anyway, I think MacBooks last much longer than 5 years if you can control your new hardware envy.

ericmcer 1y ago
My gf uses my ~10yo air and it is amazing she can stand it. Just website inefficiency creep has made older devices obsolete, I think it has around 4gb of Ram which Chrome can chew through with a few tabs open.

anonzzzies 1y ago

I like thinkpads and use my x220 from 2012 or what is it quite a lot. For my work, it beat my mbp 16' intel one I had in 2019 on just feeling faster (with Linux). But the apple silicon airs (for me airs: pros are just too bulky) ones are not beaten at the moment. And I try a lot as I really want to run Linux and not mac os x. But there is nothing better for many reasons (most mentioned here and yeah I could care less about the sound). I sponsor asahi linux for that reason. If Chinese vendors would be smart, they would open up whatever hardware they ship and get all geeks on board which pushes the rest. They are not though so for now, it's macbook airs for me. Hoping for Frame.work to get there though.

jayd16 1y ago

Fit and finish is good and Apple has been good at leveraging minimalist designs in premium materials. Even if a MacBook is very old, it's hard to say it looks or feels old. And the real irony is past 5 years it drops off a cliff because of Intel Mac End of life. Most people really don't care about tech specs for a daily driver. I mean, I love specs but my coffee table laptop is a Google Pixelbook (2017) with a metal body and ancient junk inside, but it still feels good to use.

turtlebits 1y ago

Nothing matches the build quality, display and general feel of macbooks. IME, (possibly outdated), but thinkpads have some of the worst quality displays I've ever seen.

SXX 1y ago
Thinkpad x1 do have good 2.8K displays, but almost everywhere around the world they just far more expensive than comparable Macbook Air.

unethical_ban 1y ago

Yes they are that good, and "lasting five years" might not mean physically functioning vs not. It could be "meets my computing needs". Yes it could also mean "before the nonservicable battery dies". I have a 2008 Acer, a 2018 Thinkpad, a 2019 HP, a 2024 framework, and a 2024 MacBook. I can't stand 1080p for personal use anymore, and never in my life on Windows or Linux have I gotten more than 4 hours out of a battery. Framework competes on repairability, price and OS choice. Pound for pound, MacBook is a much better piece of hardware.

setopt 1y ago
My 2021 M1 MacBook is still good, but my 2020 Intel MacBook Air (16GB RAM) has felt unusable since 2022 or so. After upgrading macOS past Big Sur it just got unusably slow, would randomly hang or have high idle CPU usage, battery power was short lived, and it was constantly hot. I therefore downgraded it to Catalina and was happy to have my laptop back, until Homebrew and App Store wouldn’t let me install new things anymore, then I upgraded it to the latest macOS again and found it unusable again. Now I’m not sure whether to install Linux on it (I’ve used Linux as my main OS before the Mac), or try to downgrade to Catalina again and just build whatever software I need from source.