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Semi-related, but just once in my life, I want to hear a mayoral candidate say: “I endorse broken windows theory, but for drivers. You honk when there’s no emer

Semi-related, but just once in my life, I want to hear a mayoral candidate say: “I endorse broken windows theory, but for drivers. You honk when there’s no emergency, block the box, roll through a stop sign — buddy that’s a ticket. Do it enough and we’ll impound your car.” Who knows, maybe we’ll start taking our cues from our polite new robot driver friends…

wahnfrieden 1y ago
NYPD cops don't like enforcing traffic violations: https://i.redd.it/w6es37v1sqpc1.png https://i.redd.it/w6es37v1sqpc1.png (License holders and drivers on the road are up in the same period that summonses are down, too. Traffic is up since pre-covid.) Now that I live in Toronto we face the same challenges. Politicians may introduce traffic laws to curb dangers and nuisances from drivers, but police refuse to enforce them. As they don't live in the city, cops seem to prefer to side with drivers over local pedestrians, residents or cyclists who they view antagonistically. Broken window works for them because they enjoy harassing pedestrians and residents of the communities they commute into. So there is a bigger problem to solve than legislation.
- miltonlost 1y ago
  Part of the problem is we have police doing far too many jobs. We need to separate out traffic enforcement, mental health responses, and other works into their own focused units. Especially the mental health responses, as far too often police refuse to or (at best) don't know how to de-escalate in those situations.
  - Zigurd 1y ago
    Bringing a gun and a taser to every problem guarantees that a lot of problems will be "solved" with the wrong tools. It's impossible to train enough people to carry guns and tasers and use them wisely.
    - Scoundreller 1y ago
      It’s also expensive training and on-going cost when you add it all up. Canada budgeted the cost of arming its border officers at ~$1 billion. In the first 10 years, they fired them 18 times. 11 were accidents and the rest were against animal, usually to euthanize it rather than defend. Works out to ~$55 million per bullet. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-border-guards-guns-1.4201882 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-border-guards-guns-1.4...
  - saila 1y ago
    I agree we need to separate these responsibilities, but when it comes to mental health response, the police themselves are often opposed to alternatives, even while they complain that they're not mental health providers and often can't do anything in those types of situations. In my city, we've had an underfunded street response program for a few years now, but a lot of people (including a lot of people who don't live here) see it as antagonistic to police and police funding, when really it should just be part of a holistic system to address social issues. It makes no sense to me that the people who ostensibly care the most about addressing crime and "disorder" on the streets are often the most oppositional to programs that might actually address some of the underlying issues (not all of course, but some).
  - jkaplowitz 1y ago
    The current Democratic nominee and frontrunner for NYC mayor plans to do exactly that! He plans to create a Department of Community Safety to take over mental health responses from NYPD.
  - FireBeyond 1y ago
    As a paramedic, multiple times I've watched police walk into a mental health emergency that we were handing satisfactorily, to everyone's contentment, patient, family, bystanders... ... and escalate it into a law enforcement situation. One situation sticks in my mind. Person had broken a glass bottle on a curb. Family member was sweeping and cleaning that up while we dealt with laceration and planning for in-patient help (they were off their meds). LE shows up, and immediately starts yelling aggressively at the patient about the broken glass, liability for any tires, injuries. Patient makes some comments back, so LE gets in his face and yells more, leads to patient trying to push off a bit and saying "get out of my face", cop is arresting him for assaulting a police officer. Only with me and my partner talking to the Sergeant who showed up shortly after did it get de-escalated, but better believe the cop (and even the Sergeant) weren't happy with us about it.
- Tiktaalik 1y ago
  Police quiet quitting and arbitrarily choosing what laws they feel like enforcing is a huge problem. The most effective fix vis a vis traffic is simply automating so much of it with speed averaging cameras and intersection cameras and taking police out of the equation and retasking them to more important things that only they can do.
  - bryanlarsen 1y ago
    Don't police have quotas any more? 40 years ago everybody knew not to speed at the end of the month because a cop that would normally give you a warning for a small speed infraction would give you a ticket instead so they could make this month's quota.
chrisshroba 1y ago
This always astounds me about cities who have a reputation for people breaking certain traffic laws. In St. Louis, people run red lights for 5+ seconds after it turns red, and no one seems to care to solve it, but if they'd just station police at some worst-offender lights for a couple months to write tickets, people would catch on pretty quickly that it's not worth the risk. I have similar thoughts on people using their phones at red lights and people running stop signs.
- rahkiin 1y ago
  In europe we use traffic cameras for this. Going through red light? A bill is in your mailbox automatically. No need for a whole police station.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - williamcotton 1y ago
    https://www.nyc.gov/site/finance/vehicles/red-light-camera-violations.page https://www.nyc.gov/site/finance/vehicles/red-light-camera-v...
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
    - jakelazaroff 1y ago
      Nobody thinks it's racist to enforce traffic laws. People think it's racist to selectively enforce traffic laws by race, which usually takes the form of police pulling over Black drivers at higher rates. (But it can also mean installing more traffic cameras in minority neighborhoods!)
  - prettyblocks 1y ago
    NYC is ramping up on this as well.
  - 0_____0 1y ago
RankingMember 1y ago
> Who knows, maybe we’ll start taking our cues from our polite new robot driver friends… I think this could be an interesting unintended consequence of the proliferation of Waymos: if everyone gets used to drivers that obey the law to letter, it could slipstream into being a norm by sheer numbers.
Zigurd 1y ago
If you look into the fleet size serving Waymo service areas, it's remarkably small. But because they work 24/7 they serve up a lot of rides, punching way above their weight in terms of market share in ride hailing. Their effect on traffic and how drivers behave will be similarly amplified. It could turn out to be disastrous for Waymo. But I suspect that low speed limits in New York will work to Waymo's favor.]
- Scoundreller 1y ago
  Real question for waymo will be snow and ice, or do they just get parked in that situation when demand is highest?
  - Zigurd 1y ago
    I've seen reports that they've been testing Driver 6 in snowy places like around Lake Tahoe and the upper Midwest last winter. I suppose this year we'll find out how well that went.
bko 1y ago
Isn't that what speed cameras are about? Seem a lot more efficient and cheaper. I got a few tickets, nothing too serious just ran the yellow a little too close and 40 in 25. And if def changed my behavior
nothrabannosir 1y ago
Blocking the box is a ticket in London. It works. Edit: let me clarify: there is a camera on every intersection which automatically gives a ticket to everyone who blocks for >5sec. That works.
- potatolicious 1y ago
  It is in NYC also, except it's entirely unenforced. We need a lot more red light cameras. The nominal regulations on automotive behavior is pretty sufficient throughout the US, the main problem is that in most parts of the country traffic law may as well be a dead letter.
  - joecool1029 1y ago
    > It is in NYC also, except it's entirely unenforced. It's enforced in the worst congested zones, the intersections around tunnel entrances and midtown, but as I said in my other comment usually by parking enforcement not NYPD. A workaround in the law is to throw your turn signal on if stranded in the box, this doesn't count as blocking the box.
- joecool1029 1y ago
  It is in NYC as well and it's usually enforced by parking enforcement (doesn't carry points but it has a steep fine), if NYPD writes it also comes with points but in my experience they'd rather let the walking ticket printers do it.
- limaoscarjuliet 1y ago
  I paid a ticket for this in NYC.
  - setgree 1y ago
    Great! and if enforcement were consistent, rule-breaking behavior would probably decline: > Quick, clear and consistent also works in controlling crime. It’s not a coincidence that the same approach works for parenting and crime control because the problems are largely the same. Moreover, in both domains quick, clear and consistent punishment need not be severe. https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/09/what-was-gary-beckers-biggest-mistake.html https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/09/wh...
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
polynomial 1y ago
We don't go after moving violations anymore (in NYC) because the driver might have a bad reaction. True story.
- nobody9999 1y ago
  >We don't go after moving violations anymore (in NYC) because the driver might have a bad reaction. True story. Who is "we"? And it's not a "true story." In fact, the NYPD issued almost 52,000 moving violation summonses in July 2025 alone and more than 400,000 year to date.[0] If 400,000 moving violation summonses just this year is your "true story" about moving violations not being issued to avoid "bad reactions", do you believe in the tooth fairy and santa claus as well? Or are you referring to the policy that NYPD cars shouldn't endanger the lives of everyone by engaging in high-speed chases on city streets?[1] Which is a completely different thing. [0] https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/traffic_data/mv-en-us-citysum.pdf https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/traffic_data/m... [1] https://nypost.com/2025/01/15/us-news/nypd-cops-ordered-not-to-chase-some-drivers-who-flee-after-spate-of-high-speed-crashes/ https://nypost.com/2025/01/15/us-news/nypd-cops-ordered-not-... Edit: Clarified prose.
seanmcdirmid 1y ago
In many places outside the USA they just use cameras for box blocking, stop sign rolling, speeding...and there is a system for honking also. But many in the states think automation here is too Orwellian.
- rco8786 1y ago
  We have all of those things in the states too. Just not ubiquitous.
  - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
    We don't have much of it, not compared to Europe or Australia. This is a solved problem, but we don't want to solve it.
- bradleyjg 1y ago
  They do that in NY too. The worst offenders inevitably have fake/defaced/covered/no license plates. That should be cracked down on very hard but the police and prosecutors are strangely reluctant.
- renewiltord 1y ago
  A sound solution in general, but the majority of police and firefighters and government employees with a connection to law enforcement cover their license plates with magnetic 'leaves' and so on. It's an undocumented perk for government employees.
rabidonrails 1y ago
If only Mitch Hedberg was still alive: https://youtu.be/zonQXdmIlqQ?si=EBrpJiCk2XlhGJIs&t=97 https://youtu.be/zonQXdmIlqQ?si=EBrpJiCk2XlhGJIs&t=97
soupfordummies 1y ago
Ultimately I wouldn’t support this level of snitching (especially in our current political env) but I’ve had the idea of: A bounty program to submit dash cam video of egregious driving crimes. It gets reviewed, maybe even by AI initially and then gets escalated to formal ticket if legit. Once ticket is paid, the snitch gets a percentage. Again, I am fundamentally against something like this though, especially now.
- globular-toast 1y ago
  Snitching... Please. We're not in the school playground any more. We're talking about taking responsibility when it comes to operating a vehicle in public. There's a huge imbalance of power when it comes to car use especially and we need to restore the balance. People need a recourse against irresponsible and bad drivers.
  - genewitch 1y ago
    do you actually know every specific vehicle code and regulation everywhere you drive? I constantly remark to my dashcam about people breaking the law in my jurisdiction. Would you be bothered if someone was following you all day, making recordings every time you didn't signal for exactly 5000ms before a lane change, or 300' before a turn? how about not stopping for a full three seconds, or driving an extra 100' in the left lane than necessary? three felonies a day
    - soupfordummies 1y ago
      No I wouldn't be bothered because I actually do those things. As should anyone driving. And they're not felonies, they're cheap tickets that probably won't even add points to your license.
      - genewitch 1y ago
        Three felonies a day: ISBN 978-1594035227 and i'm sorry, i can't take anyone seriously that claims they both know and always follow every vehicle code, wherever they are and wherever they travel. I do understand it allows one to shake their head in disdain for the unwashed cars driven by the lesser drivers of our society. I can follow anyone, including federal agents, local and state law enforcement, CDL drivers; i will catch something that is a violation of the vehicle code. If you live anywhere near the gulf coast, i'd be happy to tail you for a couple of days and point out every violation you make.
Breza 1y ago
Here in Washington DC, we've installed a variety of different kinds of traffic cameras. And the local police engage in targeted enforcement actions against things like driving on the highway shoulder or recklessly operating a moped. It makes a difference. An unexpected upside is that the regular police spend a lot less time catching speeders and stop sign runners, which frees them up for more serious situations.

wahnfrieden 1y ago

NYPD cops don't like enforcing traffic violations: https://i.redd.it/w6es37v1sqpc1.png https://i.redd.it/w6es37v1sqpc1.png (License holders and drivers on the road are up in the same period that summonses are down, too. Traffic is up since pre-covid.) Now that I live in Toronto we face the same challenges. Politicians may introduce traffic laws to curb dangers and nuisances from drivers, but police refuse to enforce them. As they don't live in the city, cops seem to prefer to side with drivers over local pedestrians, residents or cyclists who they view antagonistically. Broken window works for them because they enjoy harassing pedestrians and residents of the communities they commute into. So there is a bigger problem to solve than legislation.

miltonlost 1y ago
Part of the problem is we have police doing far too many jobs. We need to separate out traffic enforcement, mental health responses, and other works into their own focused units. Especially the mental health responses, as far too often police refuse to or (at best) don't know how to de-escalate in those situations.
- Zigurd 1y ago
  Bringing a gun and a taser to every problem guarantees that a lot of problems will be "solved" with the wrong tools. It's impossible to train enough people to carry guns and tasers and use them wisely.
  - Scoundreller 1y ago
    It’s also expensive training and on-going cost when you add it all up. Canada budgeted the cost of arming its border officers at ~$1 billion. In the first 10 years, they fired them 18 times. 11 were accidents and the rest were against animal, usually to euthanize it rather than defend. Works out to ~$55 million per bullet. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-border-guards-guns-1.4201882 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-border-guards-guns-1.4...
- saila 1y ago
  I agree we need to separate these responsibilities, but when it comes to mental health response, the police themselves are often opposed to alternatives, even while they complain that they're not mental health providers and often can't do anything in those types of situations. In my city, we've had an underfunded street response program for a few years now, but a lot of people (including a lot of people who don't live here) see it as antagonistic to police and police funding, when really it should just be part of a holistic system to address social issues. It makes no sense to me that the people who ostensibly care the most about addressing crime and "disorder" on the streets are often the most oppositional to programs that might actually address some of the underlying issues (not all of course, but some).
- jkaplowitz 1y ago
  The current Democratic nominee and frontrunner for NYC mayor plans to do exactly that! He plans to create a Department of Community Safety to take over mental health responses from NYPD.
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  As a paramedic, multiple times I've watched police walk into a mental health emergency that we were handing satisfactorily, to everyone's contentment, patient, family, bystanders... ... and escalate it into a law enforcement situation. One situation sticks in my mind. Person had broken a glass bottle on a curb. Family member was sweeping and cleaning that up while we dealt with laceration and planning for in-patient help (they were off their meds). LE shows up, and immediately starts yelling aggressively at the patient about the broken glass, liability for any tires, injuries. Patient makes some comments back, so LE gets in his face and yells more, leads to patient trying to push off a bit and saying "get out of my face", cop is arresting him for assaulting a police officer. Only with me and my partner talking to the Sergeant who showed up shortly after did it get de-escalated, but better believe the cop (and even the Sergeant) weren't happy with us about it.
Tiktaalik 1y ago
Police quiet quitting and arbitrarily choosing what laws they feel like enforcing is a huge problem. The most effective fix vis a vis traffic is simply automating so much of it with speed averaging cameras and intersection cameras and taking police out of the equation and retasking them to more important things that only they can do.
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  Don't police have quotas any more? 40 years ago everybody knew not to speed at the end of the month because a cop that would normally give you a warning for a small speed infraction would give you a ticket instead so they could make this month's quota.

chrisshroba 1y ago

This always astounds me about cities who have a reputation for people breaking certain traffic laws. In St. Louis, people run red lights for 5+ seconds after it turns red, and no one seems to care to solve it, but if they'd just station police at some worst-offender lights for a couple months to write tickets, people would catch on pretty quickly that it's not worth the risk. I have similar thoughts on people using their phones at red lights and people running stop signs.

rahkiin 1y ago
In europe we use traffic cameras for this. Going through red light? A bill is in your mailbox automatically. No need for a whole police station.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- williamcotton 1y ago
  https://www.nyc.gov/site/finance/vehicles/red-light-camera-violations.page https://www.nyc.gov/site/finance/vehicles/red-light-camera-v...
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
  - jakelazaroff 1y ago
    Nobody thinks it's racist to enforce traffic laws. People think it's racist to selectively enforce traffic laws by race, which usually takes the form of police pulling over Black drivers at higher rates. (But it can also mean installing more traffic cameras in minority neighborhoods!)
- prettyblocks 1y ago
  NYC is ramping up on this as well.
- 0_____0 1y ago

RankingMember 1y ago

> Who knows, maybe we’ll start taking our cues from our polite new robot driver friends… I think this could be an interesting unintended consequence of the proliferation of Waymos: if everyone gets used to drivers that obey the law to letter, it could slipstream into being a norm by sheer numbers.

Zigurd 1y ago

If you look into the fleet size serving Waymo service areas, it's remarkably small. But because they work 24/7 they serve up a lot of rides, punching way above their weight in terms of market share in ride hailing. Their effect on traffic and how drivers behave will be similarly amplified. It could turn out to be disastrous for Waymo. But I suspect that low speed limits in New York will work to Waymo's favor.]

Scoundreller 1y ago
Real question for waymo will be snow and ice, or do they just get parked in that situation when demand is highest?
- Zigurd 1y ago
  I've seen reports that they've been testing Driver 6 in snowy places like around Lake Tahoe and the upper Midwest last winter. I suppose this year we'll find out how well that went.

bko 1y ago

Isn't that what speed cameras are about? Seem a lot more efficient and cheaper. I got a few tickets, nothing too serious just ran the yellow a little too close and 40 in 25. And if def changed my behavior

nothrabannosir 1y ago

Blocking the box is a ticket in London. It works. Edit: let me clarify: there is a camera on every intersection which automatically gives a ticket to everyone who blocks for >5sec. That works.

potatolicious 1y ago
It is in NYC also, except it's entirely unenforced. We need a lot more red light cameras. The nominal regulations on automotive behavior is pretty sufficient throughout the US, the main problem is that in most parts of the country traffic law may as well be a dead letter.
- joecool1029 1y ago
  > It is in NYC also, except it's entirely unenforced. It's enforced in the worst congested zones, the intersections around tunnel entrances and midtown, but as I said in my other comment usually by parking enforcement not NYPD. A workaround in the law is to throw your turn signal on if stranded in the box, this doesn't count as blocking the box.
joecool1029 1y ago
It is in NYC as well and it's usually enforced by parking enforcement (doesn't carry points but it has a steep fine), if NYPD writes it also comes with points but in my experience they'd rather let the walking ticket printers do it.
limaoscarjuliet 1y ago
I paid a ticket for this in NYC.
- setgree 1y ago
  Great! and if enforcement were consistent, rule-breaking behavior would probably decline: > Quick, clear and consistent also works in controlling crime. It’s not a coincidence that the same approach works for parenting and crime control because the problems are largely the same. Moreover, in both domains quick, clear and consistent punishment need not be severe. https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/09/what-was-gary-beckers-biggest-mistake.html https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/09/wh...

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

polynomial 1y ago

We don't go after moving violations anymore (in NYC) because the driver might have a bad reaction. True story.

nobody9999 1y ago
>We don't go after moving violations anymore (in NYC) because the driver might have a bad reaction. True story. Who is "we"? And it's not a "true story." In fact, the NYPD issued almost 52,000 moving violation summonses in July 2025 alone and more than 400,000 year to date.[0] If 400,000 moving violation summonses just this year is your "true story" about moving violations not being issued to avoid "bad reactions", do you believe in the tooth fairy and santa claus as well? Or are you referring to the policy that NYPD cars shouldn't endanger the lives of everyone by engaging in high-speed chases on city streets?[1] Which is a completely different thing. [0] https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/traffic_data/mv-en-us-citysum.pdf https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/traffic_data/m... [1] https://nypost.com/2025/01/15/us-news/nypd-cops-ordered-not-to-chase-some-drivers-who-flee-after-spate-of-high-speed-crashes/ https://nypost.com/2025/01/15/us-news/nypd-cops-ordered-not-... Edit: Clarified prose.

seanmcdirmid 1y ago

In many places outside the USA they just use cameras for box blocking, stop sign rolling, speeding...and there is a system for honking also. But many in the states think automation here is too Orwellian.

rco8786 1y ago
We have all of those things in the states too. Just not ubiquitous.
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  We don't have much of it, not compared to Europe or Australia. This is a solved problem, but we don't want to solve it.
bradleyjg 1y ago
They do that in NY too. The worst offenders inevitably have fake/defaced/covered/no license plates. That should be cracked down on very hard but the police and prosecutors are strangely reluctant.
renewiltord 1y ago
A sound solution in general, but the majority of police and firefighters and government employees with a connection to law enforcement cover their license plates with magnetic 'leaves' and so on. It's an undocumented perk for government employees.

rabidonrails 1y ago

If only Mitch Hedberg was still alive: https://youtu.be/zonQXdmIlqQ?si=EBrpJiCk2XlhGJIs&t=97 https://youtu.be/zonQXdmIlqQ?si=EBrpJiCk2XlhGJIs&t=97

soupfordummies 1y ago

Ultimately I wouldn’t support this level of snitching (especially in our current political env) but I’ve had the idea of: A bounty program to submit dash cam video of egregious driving crimes. It gets reviewed, maybe even by AI initially and then gets escalated to formal ticket if legit. Once ticket is paid, the snitch gets a percentage. Again, I am fundamentally against something like this though, especially now.

globular-toast 1y ago
Snitching... Please. We're not in the school playground any more. We're talking about taking responsibility when it comes to operating a vehicle in public. There's a huge imbalance of power when it comes to car use especially and we need to restore the balance. People need a recourse against irresponsible and bad drivers.
- genewitch 1y ago
  do you actually know every specific vehicle code and regulation everywhere you drive? I constantly remark to my dashcam about people breaking the law in my jurisdiction. Would you be bothered if someone was following you all day, making recordings every time you didn't signal for exactly 5000ms before a lane change, or 300' before a turn? how about not stopping for a full three seconds, or driving an extra 100' in the left lane than necessary? three felonies a day
  - soupfordummies 1y ago
    No I wouldn't be bothered because I actually do those things. As should anyone driving. And they're not felonies, they're cheap tickets that probably won't even add points to your license.
    - genewitch 1y ago
      Three felonies a day: ISBN 978-1594035227 and i'm sorry, i can't take anyone seriously that claims they both know and always follow every vehicle code, wherever they are and wherever they travel. I do understand it allows one to shake their head in disdain for the unwashed cars driven by the lesser drivers of our society. I can follow anyone, including federal agents, local and state law enforcement, CDL drivers; i will catch something that is a violation of the vehicle code. If you live anywhere near the gulf coast, i'd be happy to tail you for a couple of days and point out every violation you make.

Breza 1y ago

Here in Washington DC, we've installed a variety of different kinds of traffic cameras. And the local police engage in targeted enforcement actions against things like driving on the highway shoulder or recklessly operating a moped. It makes a difference. An unexpected upside is that the regular police spend a lot less time catching speeders and stop sign runners, which frees them up for more serious situations.