9 ms·
Microsoft being the cool guys? The cool guys? Mwuhahahhaa. This gave me the good belly laugh I needed. For the last 25 years, Microsoft was known for: - bein
by meindnoch 1y ago
Microsoft being the cool guys? The cool guys? Mwuhahahhaa.
This gave me the good belly laugh I needed.
For the last 25 years, Microsoft was known for:
- being the no. 1 enemy of free software
- shipping the worst web browser in existence, despite 80%+ market share
- making corrupt deals with governments around the world to tie them to their office software suite
- creating vendor-locked proprietary extensions to kill open technologies (ActiveX plugins, Silverlight, C++/CLI, MSJVM, etc.)
- making cringe hardware that basically noone purchased (Zune, Windows Phone)
The last time they might have been considered the "cool guys" was sometime in the 90s.
- jrepinc 1y agoAnd today they are even complicit in genocide and avid supporters of fascist USA dictator Trump, can hardly get less cool then that
- scarface_74 1y agoAs is half the US who voted for him…
- hdgvhicv 1y agoAnd every large company, whether they want to or not, because if they don’t bend the knee…
- SlowTao 1y agoMicrosoft has for the longest time been about business only. Any virtue signaling was just marketing. Years back they were gloating about how their AI systems (pre-LLM stuff) could allow for great oil production while at the same time talking projecting the image of a clean green future.
- Melatonic 1y agoZune was actually kinda nice - although I agree nobody bought it!
- rideontime 1y agoThe same was reportedly true of Windows Phone 7. "Cringe hardware" seems to simply mean hardware that was good, but couldn't gain market share.
- SlowTao 1y agoUnfortunately for their timing, the Zune HD was them finally getting their idea of a music player spot on. It just happened to be 2 years after the release of iPhone.
- ivanmontillam 1y agoThese are the kind of claims that make some Linux users tiresome to talk to. (Full disclosure: I am also a Linux user). I'm not defending Microsoft, they are not necessarily my cup of tea, but these claims are only true of anything pre-Nadella era (part of 2014 and earlier). Feel free to express your opinions, but don't be hateful!
- dingnuts 1y agoThe grandparent was also wryly highlighting the crevasse between post-Nadella Microsoft's PR, which you seem to believe, and their actions. Despite "MS <3s Open Source" they never changed, you're just referencing a very successful era of marketing. And poor Linux users are out here catching strays. Very "don't you say that about the $1T company!!!" of you to defend them, "fellow Linux user" (also very hi fellow kids..)
- gmueckl 1y agoThen you surely have a laundry list of examples from the last 10 years where MS showed the same anticompetitive nature that they had in the 90s.
- yencabulator 1y agoYes, people keep bringing up VSCode all the time, but fanboys are gonna fanboy.
- soraminazuki 1y agoAnd Windows, that one obscure product from Microsoft that people here keep forgetting about.
- ivanmontillam 1y agoI try not to drink the Kool-Aid either on Microsoft's side (again, they are not necessarily my cup of tea), but the prevalence of the people with the "Hey! Remember that Steve Ballmer called Linux a cancer? Micro$$$hit!!" attitude sucks my energy dry.
- eastbound 1y agoMicrosoft is also LinkedIn, GitHub, Typescript, NPM (NPM! Where do you host your dependencies?), games and OpenAI. I love how each sector they’re invested in is a practical monopoly.
- meindnoch 1y ago>LinkedIn, [...] NPM [...] and OpenAI Your honor, I rest my case!
- rideontime 1y agoActiveX plugins? MSJVM? Last 25 years? You might need to update your script.
- gmueckl 1y agoThis comment comes some 15 years late. Microsoft runs the biggest org on github and has open sourced a lot of their own code under permissive licenses. IE has been dead and buried for ages. Edge doesn't have even close to the same market share and is based on Chromium. They build more and more of their own UIs on Electron. I honestly don't remember when they tried to snare someone to use proprietary extensions to something open. I probably have missed a few instances. Long story short: MS isn't a saint. They are a business. And they have behaved relatively nice for so long that some young adults don't know any other side of MS now.
- pge 1y agoI would add to your list that MSFT also makes decent hardware now - surface laptops and xbox have both done well
- selcuka 1y agoAlso their HID hardware was usually excellent. It's a shame they closed that division.
- cholantesh 1y agoXbox has done so well that they ravaged the division that oversees it.
- Sharlin 1y agoThey've "always" made decent hardware, as far as I recall. The original XBox is 23 years old, and in the 90s they made great joysticks and other controllers for PCs. And their mice and keyboards have always been good.
- mock-possum 1y ago> they have behaved relatively nicely That is some damnably faint praise re: Windows 11, and any experienced m$ users know exactly what’s meant by that.
- gmueckl 1y ago
- jedberg 1y ago> making cringe hardware that basically noone purchased Their keyboards were arguably the best ones around. I'm literally typing this on a 20 year old MS keyboard right now.
- p1necone 1y agoLikewise the Intellimouse Pro is my favourite mouse. Sadly they seem to have discontinued it in favor of the Surface mouse which has atrocious ergonomics.
- jedberg 1y agoThey also discontinued the ergo keyboard that I am using to type this. I'm very worried that when this keyboard goes out I won't have another option. There is a clone on the market, which I use at home, that so far has been pretty promising, but we'll see if it has they lasting power that this one does.
- ndiddy 1y agoKinesis makes a keyboard that's basically the Microsoft ergo layout but mechanical and you can remap the keys. I have one and like it. https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/mwave/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/mwave/
- wahnfrieden 1y agoGlove80 is a lot nicer in several ways if you're ok with the Chocs
- pyrale 1y agoI'll disagree loudly with my IBM keyboards (my old model M as well as the thinkpads I've used).
- jedberg 1y agoSorry, I can't hear you over that racket! But in reality my favorite keyboard before I switched to the MS keyboards was the one that came with my original IBM PC with the clicky keys. The biggest downside was that my mom and dad always knew when I was on the computer!
- mv4 1y agoWhile I mostly agree with your assessment, I feel like the Xbox is pretty cool.
- meindnoch 1y agoAt this point it's an open secret that there won't be another Xbox. So yeah, they made something cool, and managed to fumble it.
- djhn 1y agoHow come? Any TL;DR? Not a gamer, so I’m not up to date on consoles.
- jorvi 1y agoNothing of the sort has been leaked or said by Microsoft. However, their strategy seems to be going all-in on Gamepass. And if you subscribe to Gamepass, Microsoft does not care if you play on your Steam Deck, iPad or Xbox. This is also why they mentioned they might open up the Xbox to other stores (Steam), and why they have been releasing first party titles onto the PS5[0]. If you couple that info with them axing their own handheld and instead licensing out the Xbox name to Asus with the ROG Ally Xbox, it isn't a huge leap to assume they'll just license out the Xbox name to whichever OEM feels like making a console. The Xbox One and Series X / S already run the Windows Core kernel which would make going more wide on the hardware support quite easy, and the current hardware is semi off-the-shelf stuff from AMD anyway. [0] this led to some memery: https://images3.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED187/67a6bce72916a.jpeg https://images3.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED187/67a6bce7291...
- tapoxi 1y agoBasically, PS5 sales recently reached 80 million. Xbox Series X/S is estimated about 30 million. They lost the generation where digital libraries were built and can't gain the market back. There's been a lot of rumor lately that Xbox becomes a shell on top of Windows and just runs regular Windows games. The announcement of the Xbox ROG Ally using this same approach gives it a lot of weight.
- hinkley 1y ago30 years, not 25. A lot of early contributions to Linux basically came with a "PS: Fuck Microsoft" at the bottom.
- sixothree 1y agoI don't know where you've been the last decade, but it's clear they have been perceived this way. Him describing that perception only to be ridiculed by you is a pretty low blow.
- dylan604 1y ago> - making cringe hardware that basically noone purchased (Zune, Windows Phone) The Surface looks cool to me, but since it runs Windows, I will never use it. Does it only look cool, or is actually a cool device?
- deaddodo 1y agoLinux runs perfectly fine on most of the Surfaces: https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface/wiki/Supported-Devices-and-Features#feature-matrix https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface/wiki/Supporte... There's the usual asterisk here or there, as with most laptops; but, outside of some golden devices, it's about on par with most.
- dylan604 1y agoGreat, but I'm not looking to run Linux either. You've completely answered by not answering the actual question though. Is it actually a cool device?
- deaddodo 1y agoYou specifically stated "since it runs Windows, I will never use it" and I addressed that point. If your qualifier is "runs MacOS/iOS", then your following question is moot for every non-Apple device. Either way, no one can answer your subjective opinion-based query. Go test it out at the dozens of kiosks in any city in a Western nation (or, barring that, watch a youtube video) and judge for yourself.
- jameshart 1y ago> making cringe hardware that basically noone purchased (Zune, Windows Phone) The 25 year window you picked actually coincides almost exactly with the time since the original X-Box was launched. Seems an odd omission from the list of hardware MS released in that time period. Also the IntelliMouse Explorer was released in late 1999, which nobody who has ever had to clean the gunk off a mouseball roller would describe as ‘cringe’.
- high_na_euv 1y ago>For the last 25 years, Microsoft was known for: That was 10 years ago
- Tyce3312 1y agoI agree with you
- Tyce3312 1y agoDon’t Apple and Ubuntu also advertise products in their OS also?
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- SlowTao 1y agoHey! I liked my Windows Phone. Original Xbox and the first half of Xbox 360 where also cool. End of list of good things however.
- 7thpower 1y agoThis is bullshit, the Zune was great and was doing incredibly well, at least around here. It was THE device to have, people were going crazy for them; there was enough pent up demand that people were breaking windows and sliding into cars to get them. I still miss that thing.
- aleph_minus_one 1y agoAt least in Germany at the time of the release of the various Zune generations, Zune was both hated by hipsters for not being "fashionable" (these users strongly preferred iPods), and by free software advocates (who were very vocal at the time, and also had at that time much more influence on the sentiment and feelings of "average users" than today) for its in-built DRM system.
- positron26 1y agoMuch as it was all true and a lot of us were there, Microsoft moved on and so must open source. These aren't the Bobs anymore.
- nirvdrum 1y ago> - making cringe hardware that basically noone purchased (Zune, Windows Phone) I don't personally get too attached to devices I purchase or begrudge others for what they buy so, I'm curious what made them "cringe hardware" in your opinion. Adoption aside, they looked like pretty compelling devices to me. Is this a case of buying anything that isn't Apple isn't cool? Or is there something deeper there?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 1y agoThis "Microsoft are good guys" is a bizarre recurring comment that has appeared on HN for quite a while now It's like pretending people must choose from Russia, North Korea, South Sudan or the Central African Republic Who are the good guys None of these companies are "good guys" These "Leave Microsoft alone" HN comments will undoubtedly persist Perhaps there are MS employees who comment on HN and they are sensitive about criticism The idea Microsoft is somehow benign is truly hilarious It is not difficult to argue the damage this company causes today without retribution is far worse than what they did in the past IME, Microsoft is very cult-like; the employees believe that Microsoft has a solution for any problem, and there is never, ever any contemplation that the company creates problems ;this does not stop with the employees, it can extend to others who are "bought in" to the Redmond ecosystem
- Sharlin 1y ago> This "Microsoft are good guys" is a bizarre recurring comment that has appeared on HN for quite a while now Well, yes, that's called generational change. A lot of people have never experienced the bad old Microsoft, only the pretty cool guy Microsoft.
- psychoslave 1y agoAre pretty cool guys in command and firmly desiring to keep up with their ethos, or mere disposable shiny pawns that are one giant layoff away whatever good the profit are?
- nothrabannosir 1y agoWindows Phone was solid. Actual innovation in mobile UI. Commercial success hasn’t been an argument for technical supremacy since Betamax.
- arnvald 1y agoTalk to some developers with 3-5yoe, they do see Microsoft as a cool company. For them it’s a company that created TypeScript, supports open source, runs NPM, created VSCode etc. None of them thinks of Internet Explorer, Zune, or anti competitive behavior. You will always associate MS with these failures, the generation after you won’t
- alexchantavy 1y agoIt's always better when companies are hungry for business. I thought that in 2016ish it was super cool for Microsoft to get into Linux, build VS Code, and make bets like the Surface Studio. For comparison, I think Mac OS in 2008 was also at a bit of a golden age: - You had native file support for .iso, .zip without needing to install crapware like Winzip. - You even could preview *.psd files out the box. - You had first-party apps like Image Capture to scan documents without needing to install extra software. - There was an amazing third-party app ecosystem with things like Yojimbo, OnyX, Little Snitch, Quicksilver, Handbrake, Coda, Adium. This was around the time of the "I'm a Mac" campaign when Apple was _hungry_ to win business away from Windows. All of these small, polished advantages made me fall in love with the experience. OSX today is still good but there definitely isn't that same level of "underdog hunger" showing up in the products as of late. Anyway I'm just trying to say companies being hungry for business shows up in its products and that's better for consumers.
- Ygg2 1y ago> For the last 25 years, Microsoft was known for: That's true, but there is a catch in your wording. For the last 15 year, Microsoft has: - Adopted open source/free software and gave contributions to various project (e.g. Linux in 2012 https://www.phoronix.com/news/MTEwNzE https://www.phoronix.com/news/MTEwNzE) - Abandoned the worst web browser in existence. That they created :) - Abandoned ActiveX (29 years ago), Silverlight (4 years ago) + Opened .NET to more platform than just Windows. It can now run very well on Linux, Mac, etc. + Made many of its locked down stuff open source - .NET, Z3, hell there was that few weeks ago open sourcing of the WinUI framework, etc. + Pivoted towards the cloud where OSS software synergizes with their cloud offerings. Do they do corrupt deals with governments? Well yes, but so does every other big corp. And making cringe hardware isn't a crime in itself. Do they still do a lot of shady shit? You bet, but they only started getting worse a few years ago. You are thinking it doesn't come in waves and it was all evil, all the time.
- yard2010 1y agoCan't they be forgiven? For taking the shit show JS was/is and turning it into magical TS?
- Xelbair 1y agoeh, they had short blip in the relatively recent history, especially with developers, in mid 2010s. With dotnet core 1-3 - open source cross platform .net, that was modern, fresh and clearly a project done by developers for developers. add vscode to this and it seems nice. but as soon as 5 hit, if you look into details, they went to their usual bullshit, starting with stapling together winforms and wpf to it. the feel of the project shifted from 'developers for developers' to usual top down management. vscode is also a weird case - it looks open source, but isn't at all(the builds you get aren't just from the same codebase + no access to extensions legally if you build your own, or fork it)
- GoblinSlayer 1y ago>shipping the worst web browser in existence Which? IE6? IE6 is the best web browser in existence though. You confuse standard with good.
- AtlasBarfed 1y ago25 years? Try 40.
- wordofx 1y agoThis is such a typical HN low IQ comment.
- azangru 1y ago> For the last 25 years, Microsoft was known for: - Creating a language (typescript) that took the front-end web community by storm. - Becoming one of the real adopters of "progressive web apps". Apple is actively hostile to them, because they would eat into the 30% cut they are making from the apps distributed via the app store; Google, once a champion, has grown kinda tepid, because it also gets a cut from apps distributed via Google Play; but Microsoft now behave as if they are a believer. - Shipping a tremendously popular text editor, Visual Studio Code.
- giancarlostoro 1y ago> - Shipping a tremendously popular text editor, Visual Studio Code. Which feels sluggish compared to how it used to be. They keep tacking on too much cruft to it. I used to call it a lightweight IDE, but now its just a bloated editor.
- turtlebits 1y agoSorry, but even with typescript, the frontend web community a shit-storm. Anything Microsoft + web is a nightmare. Their login system is a redirect and re-auth hell and I loath anytime I need to log into anything Microsoft related.
- fatnoah 1y ago> Zune The Zune was 100% uncool, but man did I like the hardware and software sooo much better than the iPod / ITunes. I was just sad that I never found anyone to "squirt" at.
- nwsm 1y agoI think you may have been under a rock for the last 5-10 years
- psychoslave 1y agoFar more than that, so tell me, are my association of Russia and United-States to imperialist behaviors actually outdated, or are some cultural traits unfortunately still persisting through time?
- dmonitor 1y ago> - making cringe hardware that basically noone purchased (Zune, Windows Phone) Add the most recent lineup of Xbox consoles to this
- lisbbb 1y agoAlso champions of idiotic subscription models instead of providing long-term value to customers.
- lenkite 1y ago> - shipping the worst web browser in existence, despite 80%+ market share Original non-Chromium Edge was damn good btw. It had the best butter-smooth and elegant epub reader implementation I have even seen in any software.