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Basic Social Skills Guide
- atemerev 1y agoSite is down so much for my social skills :(
- globalnode 1y agowe'll have to get by with grunting
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- dielll 1y agohacker news hug of death
- LarMachinarum 1y agoIf that's the reason, I kinda wonder what kind of numbers we're talking about in this case.
- strken 1y agoOn the topic of "support your friends", if there's a funeral for someone you weren't super close with but your friend knew well and you're not sure whether to go, I would recommend just going, sitting up the back, offering your condolences if the opportunity comes up, and leaving. I've failed to do this twice. Nobody else said or did anything, but I regretted it.
- zwnow 1y agoIt's also ok not to attend funerals at all, even if you were close. I broke down every funeral I went to and would rather avoid that in the future.
- d332 1y ago[flagged]
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- balamatom 1y ago[flagged]
- guerrilla 1y agoIs this AI spam or psychosis? I don't understand.
- foxglacier 1y ago3rd option is you just don't understand. This is language people use to describe narcissists. Flying monkeys are people who help them manipulate others and vampires are "emotional vampires". Poster was saying a narcissist had died, leaving their support people leaderless.
- schoen 1y agoA reference to the Wizard of Oz movie? I hadn't heard this jargon before.
- guerrilla 1y agoIt's an extremely uncalibrated reply given the context regardless, even more so expecting the general audience here to understand this weirdly specific language. Something is definitely off.
- balamatom 1y agoCalibrate my barometer, good sir. Needed to hang around the 80s a little longer.
- RataNova 1y agoIn those moments it's rarely about you having the "right" words
- atoav 1y agoWell the thing is, that sometimes being there and giving them a nod is already saying enough. No need for words. Showing them you care is appropriate if you really do.
- gwd 1y ago"Words aren't remembered, but presence is."
- latexr 1y agoDepending on culture and the people, just going might be uncomfortable for the people you want to support. Maybe your friend was close with the deceased and thus their family would like them to be there, but not a stranger. Additionally, your friend or the family of the deceased may feel obligated to interact with you and make you feel welcome because you went. Maybe they’d prefer if you hadn’t gone. I’d instead recommend asking your friend (though again, this advice may be culturally dependent). Be sure they know it’s about you supporting them. I remember when a family member died and only one classmate asked me if I wanted them to come to the funeral. I refused but remember the gesture to this day. It’s about the only thing I remember about the person. I also remember a couple of other friends to whom I was closer not asking me, and that stuck with me because they both disliked and badmouthed (I don’t really know why, I avoided dumb drama) the original person. That made me rethink a lot of things. Anyway, I guess the point is to think of what your friend would like and make sure they understand you’re there for them.
- Blackarea 1y agoI wonder why this was written as these very small paragraphs with only a few lines of content? Apart from the hosting issues due to hackernews it leads to a lot of intros and 'in the next section we will learn...' but the actually useful content is quite little and you have to dig hard for it. I'd personally favor a normal article.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- simpss 1y agoMost likely, it's for tracking reasons. To figure out what sections people hit more and less... I agree with you though. It's sad that content is being reformulated for those reasons.
- moffkalast 1y agoFinally something for an LLM to crawl and assemble into a coherent document that can be read from start to finish.
- magicalhippo 1y agoMaybe I'm weird, but I find the writing style almost condescending. It's a style I've seen elsewhere as well so not particular to this site, but I find it grating and off-putting. Feels like it treats me like a 4 year old.
- ryanjshaw 1y agoI found it frustrating because of all the links everywhere. In the “How to use this guide” section it links to a body language section. But there’s no context as to where this body language section fits in. Am I supposed to read the body language section now and then remember to go back to the how to section? Or is body language discussed later? Then why link to it now? This format stresses me out.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Simon_O_Rourke 1y agoI've worked with lots of folks on the spectrum and to be honest it's more fun dealing with them as team members rather than "normies". One guy particularly stands out, he joined the team and started off on a solo run with a couple of projects a few others were involved in. A few weeks later I asked him if he'd setup any meetings with the team to get context and, you know, say hello and his response was "why should I do that, can't they read my PRs?". Classic. Another one was the very loudly self-diagnosed neurodiverse girl, who seemed to just use it as cover for being a total jerk. Eventually she had to be managed out, as she tipped the scale between doing good work and tolerance of odd behaviors too far - screaming in meetings, histrionics and stuff you'd expect more of someone living on a street corner.
- johnisgood 1y ago> I asked him if he'd setup any meetings with the team to get context and, you know, say hello and his response was "why should I do that, can't they read my PRs?". Classic. That would have been my reply, too.
- bravetraveler 1y agoDitto. The contributions are saying 'hello' and soliciting input, in one. Also providing the contributor with an opportunity to learn the product in their terms. I know, I know. The horror of an individual for us all. I assume the proposition is this: one has no chance to produce value without firm guidance from the onset. Or the time learning is a tragedy. I doubt both of these very much. PRs are another conversation. The others are free to take their turns. In this hypothetical, apparently, the other side has been unresponsive. Where's their ire; left behind at the bar? Sorry we didn't apply the correct social pressure or wait until everyone was available at the same time for a call, I guess. I understand how that might hurt optics... I, the baby with superpowers in this scenario, just don't/can't care. Handholding isn't a requirement. Guess what is: communicating the changes. Look at the PRs. Now that management is involved, we can have a meeting about them going unattended.
- strken 1y ago
- pflenker 1y agoHm, that’s all a bit shallow, isn’t it? Can anyone recommend a more thorough source?
- ivape 1y agoLife. It's a live and learn type thing. Social has everything to do with the social club you're in. Every club has different rules.
- pflenker 1y agoYet these rules aren’t so radically different that there aren’t any common patterns. For instance, noticing people’s birthday and adding them to your calendar so that you can congratulate them is a small, yet very powerful tip that works in pretty much everyday social circle.
- itake 1y agoI hope they cover managing your own emotions: staying calm, responding with empathy, and breaking avoidance patterns. In my last few relationships, I've been having to do relationship coaching with partners because their parents failed to teach them responding with physical or emotional violence is not how you maintain friendships or relationships.
- thrownawaysz 1y agoThis is a very American society focused guide, a lot of these wouldn't even apply in Europe an especially not if you travel to Asia, Middle East, or Africa
- 7222aafdcf68cfe 1y agoInterestingly enough, not nearly as much gets published for e.g. Europe. Innate ability ?
- aleph_minus_one 1y ago> Interestingly enough, not nearly as much gets published for e.g. Europe. Innate ability ? From my personal feeling: US culture is more on the extraverted side (i.e. a lot of people want/need shallow conversation instead of shutting their mouth, except if they have something important to say) than what is common in many European countries. Thus, people who are more on the introvert side have a harder time in the USA than in many European countries, I guess. Also, for various reason the whole "self-improvement industrial complex" is much less prevalent in European countries than in the USA. Relatedly, I would say that in the USA, there is the mentality "Our society is the greatest ever made since God created Earth, so if you don't feel happy, the fault is on you: you need to self-improve." On the other hand, in many European countries, the mentality is rather like "The society [note that I didn't write "our" - there is barely any sense of belonging] is a corrupt, messed-up shithole. Yes, there exist those smooth talkers who tell you that you need to self-improve (e.g. social skills), but do you know what: those just want to make money from the mess you are in, and/or are telling you the things that those in power want you to brainwash with. So, instead of wasting time and money to get yourself a brainwashing to make yourself 'socially adapted', better invest this energy into exposing all these assholes in power who are responsible for the whole mess. Since there are so many people who also have this kind of hate, you will easily find friends this way, and thus become more socially skilled." :-)
- msgodel 1y ago>Relatedly, I would say that in the USA, there is the mentality "Our society is the greatest ever made since God created Earth, so if you don't feel happy, the fault is on you: you need to self-improve." Unjustified self deprecation can lead to dereliction. IMO Americans feel this way because it's appropriate to.
- TrackerFF 1y agoI've found that no mater what country I've been to, or what social classes the people belong to, three topics have a 95% success rate when it comes to social relations with guys: sports, cars, fishing/hunting. And to some degree handywork. It is a bit unfortunate, as I'm not at all interested in talking about those things - but they are such staple topics, that you can come off as a sort of outcast if you can't keep a short convo on those things. Another observation has been that some topics are very polarized. In some countries you can talk pretty freely about politics, while in other places it is a faux pas. But then again, part of finding out what the other party likes talking about is a skill in itself.
- yoz-y 1y agoWhile I’ve yet to meet somebody into fishing or hunting, I agree about cars and sports. Unfortunately since I have interest in neither it can be hard to fit in sometime. Weirdly, as somebody non interested in these common topics it also feels like it’s up to you to figure out a topic of common interest and it really isn’t. About sports also, most people super “into” sports don’t do any. Which is ironic because a conversation about technique is something I’ll gladly have.
- matwood 1y agoYou don't need to know much about sports. If you can just keep up with what's in season that's typically enough. Who do you think will go to the super bowl? Have you done a final four bracket? are great questions as long as it's the right time of year.
- cafeinux 1y agoFor the few times where I had to speak to someone about topics I don't care much about, I found that simply asking questions to learn about them ( as well as the person I'm speaking to) is enough. "What team do you support? Has it always been the case? How do you think they compare to <well-known other good team>?" "What car do you drive? Any particular reason for that car model? What's the brand's best and worst things? Oh, that piece tends to break easily; pardon my ignorance, but what's the purpose of it?" "Any key difference in the way you hunt/fish this or that animal, or the time of the year during which you hunt/fish? I don't know that word, what does it mean? Do you have any anecdotes about some hunting/fishing you did?" Those have to be adapted to the person and situation, but they are pretty good to keep a conversation going. People love to speak about their interests, and a lot love to even teach about them. Putting yourself as the listener makes them perceive you as nice, and you might even gather interesting information to yourself, or at least gather enough knowledge to have an easier time speaking about it next time..
- saltserv 1y ago[dead]
- nicbou 1y agoThe best guide I have ever seen is https://succeedsocially.com/ https://succeedsocially.com/ It’s so unbelievably straightforward and useful. It’s unfortunate that I discovered it after learning everything the hard way.
- PandaRider 1y agoIt's not bad. Maybe 7/10. I read the page https://www.succeedsocially.com/morefun https://www.succeedsocially.com/morefun. Here's my initial impressions. Pros: it identified several important painpoints and give several decent examples. Cons: Being a truly fun person is all about reaction reaction reaction. Fun people react authentically (while censoring their ahole side because you don't want to be fun but unlikable), ridiculously (while reading the room), and intelligently (playing to the top of the crowd's intelligence).
- SunlightEdge 1y agoGreat comment - it feels very true
- nicbou 1y agoConsider the intended audience though. This is for people who are lost and need perspective and concrete steps for improving. Compared to all the "fake it 'till you make it" or "just stop caring" type of advice, it's helpful.
- amelius 1y ago> Fun people react authentically (while censoring their ahole side because you don't want to be fun but unlikable) But here you explain exactly what is difficult. It's like walking a tightrope and someone tells you not to fall to the left and by the way, also not to the right.
- zug_zug 1y agoWow, after reading the various pages on this link for ~20m+ I have to agree this is one of the best resources I've ever encountered.
- rsaarelm 1y agoMask every day. Life goal: Be 100% artificial person. All openings and responses must be calculated and faked. Your inner self is faulty and not appropriate at any situation. Once you train and work hard enough to suppress it at all times forever, you may be accepted and allowed to participate.
- humanono 1y agoYou are what you are because of circumstances. Which is fun and great if you came out as a happy cool human. If you made it through the weird unadjusted side without any gimmick you just loose. No one has to force you to stay what your surroundings made you. It's not your personality it's just a reflection and you can change it and make it better for you by adjusting and reflecting.
- rsaarelm 1y agoSometimes people already are like something and don't want to change it or feel like they could change it, but also don't get along being like they are. This is more awkward to think about than just treating them as damaged or incomplete people who would get around to becoming people who can fit in fine once the damage is fixed or the incomplete development is completed, because it's harder to see good solutions.
- ernst_klim 1y agoYou severely underestimate the biological side of things regarding social interaction. Neurodivergent people are what we are not just bc "surroundings made us so"
- humanono 1y agoThat includes people like me who are neurodivergent And I'm also not shaming anyone not wanting or unable to chain themselves. It was a statement about the uniqueness of ones character and the agency of controlling it/changing or adjusting it by yourself
- RataNova 1y agoA lot of "social skills" content drifts into pickup-artist-y territory, so it's refreshing when something frames it around comfort, support, and actual connection instead of just "winning" interactions
- rickandmorty99 1y ago> instead of just "winning" interactions Mainstream pickup artists yea. Some niche ones, not really. Wayne Elise feels like a good example, from back in the day. On a throwaway because the judgmental people will judge me for the rest of my life due to me nuancing that not all people associated to pickup artists looked at social interactions in a zero sum way.
- TheCapeGreek 1y agoAgreed, it feels risky to just be associated these days, even if it's "adjacent" groups that explicitly don't want to be part of the "mechanical" side of improving social skills like "classical" PUA. But, no way to change that in public perception without taking risks and being open about it. So, if you're an HN reader, not wanting to be branded as a PUA but still want to find help socially (especially romantically), my two cents is look into the Ars Amorata community.
- rickandmorty99 1y ago> But, no way to change that in public perception without taking risks and being open about it. Yea, I can't take it. I've fixed my dating life but I'm not a charismatic leader by any stretch of the imagination. I've taken multiple stabs in Reddit threads but there is just no good faith discussion to be had. I've also tried it a bit on HN. On HN it's also very dicey. > So, if you're an HN reader, not wanting to be branded as a PUA but still want to find help socially (especially romantically), my two cents is look into the Ars Amorata community. Interesting, will check it out. I don't need help by the way. I'm married. And for social skills that I'm still lacking, I know where to go. Unfortunately, not all social skills in dating transfer well to work social skills. Edit: just checked it out. Good to see Zan is still doing his thing. I remember him "I love women". He definitely influenced me with that quote back in the day.
- kaiwenwang 1y agoBeing able to communicate despite differences in status. Don't try to qualify people. Do not let others feel contempt. Don't speak any words outside what someone would commonly be able to accept. Suppression of ego so others are not uncomfortable. Knowing when to not suppress it if others think you are fake.
- SunlightEdge 1y agoWhat does don't try to qualify people mean to you? Does it relate to putting people in boxes/labelling people and making very strong assumptions?
- atoav 1y agoAs an introvert I'd argue those are basically just: "be empathic". That means you should not treat others in a way that annoys or demeans them – because you yourself would not like that either, right? Empathy implies you can feel with others. Example: You are a man and you talk to a woman. Being empathic means you have a clear mental image of what it might feel like to be a woman and can thus avoid saying things that aren't funny, like sexist bullshit. Or you talk to a student/junior and remember what it felt like when you had no fucking clue and how shitty it was when the old greybeards would scoff at you, with empathy you can talk to people where they are instead of highlighting the difference between you and them. Most communicative problems I have ever seen (aside from language barriers) could have been resolved by a little bit of empathy.
- syncmaster913n 1y ago> Most communicative problems I have ever seen (aside from language barriers) could have been resolved by a little bit of empathy. Empathy is usually an internal process. On it's own, it wont't resolve a communication problem. What ends up affecting a communication problem are the external actions that we take based on our internal empathy calculus (assuming we haven't totally miscalculated). Those actions will vary significantly by person and context, assuming any action follows at all. Empathy is the relatively easy part. Acting on that empathy in a way that doesn't come across as condescending, disengaged, presumptious, judgemental, awkward, or scripted, while also remaining true to yourself and upholding your personal values are the hard parts.
- N_Lens 1y agoAh yes, a very pertinent article for HN!
- esschul 1y agoFinally.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- dartharva 1y agoCan text ever really teach you social skills? Aren't they, by definition, "social" and thus only obtainable through exposure and practice?
- perching_aix 1y agoThis applies to teaching anything ever; it's the difference between teaching the thing and teaching about the thing. It's a caveat to keep in mind, sure, but not much more.
- Fraterkes 1y agoThis is a bit of a long shot, but a lot my social embarrassment comes from my tendency to mumble / be hard to understand. Anyone on here have any experience with improving at that stuff?
- atoav 1y agoStudied Film and worked professionally in overdubbing for a while. I recommend in that order: 1. figure out if your mumbling is just a habit or a logopedic issue 2. get a speakers training of the type actors or radio hosts would If you wonder whether it is worth it, just consider how important it is in both your private and professional life to be clearly understood. There has been a study during the pandemic that showed that people who had the better sound quality in conferences would get their ideas through more often. This is truly the case for spoken words as well.
- kaitak 1y agoTake a look at Vinh Giang [1], he specializes in communication skills and vocal clarity, and is a super fun guy to listen to speak. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/@askvinh https://www.youtube.com/@askvinh
- _9ptr 1y agoThis may sound unhelpful, but just try to notice when you do it and then speak more clearly. Try to minimize the amount of "What" as a response to what you say. If you have a medical type of problem that's of course not applicable.
- jononor 1y agoOn the practical side there are many good options. Using the voice effectively is a key skill in many professions, such as singing, public speaking, education, religious, management. So there are many practitioners, and lots of learning materials out there. So I recommend to check of there are any of those angles that resonate more with you. But very important - this is a challenge that needs practice to overcome - it cannot be dealt with only theoretically! So as a simple starting point is: go on YouTube and search for vocal exercises. Start with something like warmup routines. And then try something like saying the same sentence at 7 different loudness levels, from a whisper into someones ear to a SHOUT that needs to go to another person at the other side of a lake. Observe just how much power you got! This will be awkward and that is good - it means that you are stretching yourself, both physically and mentally! Like at the gym. Then out a few sentences in the level you feel most comfortable with, plus 1 or 2 steps above. Try whole paragraphs. PS: drink water and do not push harder if you feel pain.
- SunlightEdge 1y agoFor those who think they are decent at socializing, one book that may extend your skill further is ' Never split the difference'. Its a book about negotiating, but I think it does teach some key skills. Mirroring for example where you literally repeat back the last few words a person has said, I've found unexpectedly super useful - it almost allows people to expand on what they are saying and helps them go deeper into things. Basically the book (and other tools) has helped me become a better listener (I have always been decent at the talking side). https://www.amazon.co.uk/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/1847941494 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-... Note: I only 'mirror' 2-3 times in a conversation. I've found over using it makes it have less impact. But that's just me.
- matwood 1y agoThere's also the classic 'How to Win Friends and Influence People'. Many later books are rehashing of parts of HTWFAIP.
- SunlightEdge 1y agoAgreed that is a classic - I think the essentials are true but the language is a bit dated. Definitely "trying to think positively about people and their actions/understand them", and giving people "a sense of importance" are very helpful social skills.
- harimau777 1y agoI definitely second that its a great book, especially if you focus more on the principles it's getting at instead of necessarily the examples. Funny experience with that: A big part of How to Win Friends and Influence People that I took to heart was "be interested in other people". Flash forward a few years and I'm in a bar with a group of people I had recently met when one of them says to me "Hey, we've been talking a lot about ourselves but not really that much about you." One of the other people interrupted "That's because they are polite! They are showing interest in what we're interested in instead of insisting on talking about themselves." So at least some people do notice when you put in an effort to use good social skills!
- mglvsky 1y agoI suspect that books about this type of guide differ much depends on the country/reader.
- imtringued 1y agoI think this guide is already failing people by assuming successfully initiated conversations and labeling it as "basic". If you have plenty of social contacts, that already warrants being considered "intermediate". The really difficult things are maintaining good first impression and talking to (perceived) strangers. You know nothing about a person until you talk with that person, so what exactly are you supposed to do? There is a bootstrapping problem. Classified ads are a good example. It's not like ebay, where you click a button and the delivered product is guaranteed to arrive a few days later. Instead you get a blank form of nothing, where you can write whatever you want and there is always the possibility of rejection. It's very much unlike any store you've ever visited, where money is king and the customer('s money) is always right.
- rkagerer 1y agohttps://archive.ph/zqFVm https://archive.ph/zqFVm
- aqua_worm_hole 1y ago[dead]
- AbstractH24 1y agoWhile there is value in a product like this, the creator did little to nothing to explain his credibility or earn my trust. Some TEDx talks to degrees from unnamed programs.
- metadat 1y agoPrevious discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21585235 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21585235 - 2019 (419 comments)
- anal_reactor 1y agoI decided to be nicer to people in order to make more friends. I realized that most of them are boring and shallow and talking to them is waste of time and energy.
- torium 1y ago> Watch TV with the sound low and study the body language of the actors until you can recognize comfort and discomfort. Bad advice. Actors don't mimic reality. Actors mimic what viewers expect to see in actors. This means that the body language you see in actors and the language you see in real life are different.
- 93po 1y agosomething these guides indirectly touch on but don't explain more explicitly: frequently issues with socializing are rooted in trauma, and working on that trauma is what's going to fundamentally improve socialization. and for those unfamiliar, trauma isn't always "this one bad thing happened this one time, or many times". trauma is sometimes a lifelong pattern of small interactions, or lack of small interactions. childhood emotional neglect is sometimes impossible to even see from the outside, but can have lifelong implications to attachment styles that then later massively impact one's social anxiety and ability to socialize also autism