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New executive order puts all grants under political control
- antonvs 1y agoAh, so a party official must approve the grants? Trump has been learning from Winnie the Pooh. How very Communist of him.
- Zaheer 1y agoRelated paulg tweet: https://x.com/paulg/status/1951996478555357530 https://x.com/paulg/status/1951996478555357530 "The Trump administration has suspended the funding of Terence Tao and the Institute for Pure and Applied Mathematics at UCLA."
- abetusk 1y agoTerence Tao's toot on mathstodon.xyz: https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/114956840959338146 https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/114956840959338146
- noncoml 1y agoThe replies to his tweet are a cesspool. Why do people still use Twitter?
- ojbyrne 1y agoYou have to be logged in to see the comments. So…
- ewoodrich 1y agoJust swap x.com with xcancel.com, I used a Chrome extension to set up a redirect rule so it's automatic.
- v5v3 1y agoBecause it has an enormous userbase including active daily postings from many of the most prominent minds.
- mschuster91 1y ago> The replies to his tweet are a cesspool. Maybe it's just Twitter's algorithm that only serves me the decent replies - but these at least have a point, antisemitism is running utterly rampant in academia these days. In no relation to Qatari funding, one might assume...
- mindslight 1y ago.
- intermerda 1y agoPaul Graham? Pretty sure he was anti-Trump before the last election. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s one of those “enlightened centrists.”
- mindslight 1y agoMaybe I've unfairly judged him. Last I remember seeing was some pearl clutching about how Trump/Musk needed to "be careful" with what DOGE cut or something. I took that assumption of good faith as an indication of being in the reality distortion field, like too many other VCs are.
- antonvs 1y agoMoney makes them vulnerable. They didn’t get to where they are without playing a conformance game. That limits the degree to which they can object to anything.
- wat10000 1y agoMoney should make them less vulnerable. They can lose their job, be blacklisted, whatever, and still be fine. Not like the ordinary person where this would mean homelessness. If they’re vulnerable, it’s the psychological need to keep adding to their pile of money that does it.
- antonvs 1y agoThat’s not quite right. An administration like Trump’s can destroy people and companies if they really want to, and that’s the threat they’re using to get their way. Openly defying that is taking a big risk - for the targets, it’s not about “adding to their pile of money”, it’s about not losing much of what they have. Keep in mind that “money” is not some sort of concrete thing like a pile of gold - it’s dependent on factors like the value of companies. The wealthier someone in the US is, the more their wealth depends on their ultimate cooperation with the prevailing powers.
- shrubble 1y agoAll bureaucrats do this sort of thing: shut down something innocent to serve as a rallying cry. UCLA has $8 billion in endowments and the state universities in total have $30 billion in endowment funds. How many years could they fund Tao and his institute if they really wanted to?
- noelwelsh 1y agoThe govt has frozen about $584 million in grants to UCLA. The endowment won't last very long if they spent it to replace that. Furthermore, endowment money often has conditions that prevent it being spent freely + it is used for other things.
- pfannkuchen 1y agoI don’t really understand why so much of science is funded by the government instead of by private philanthropy. It seems like an obvious channel for corruption of science. Sure private donors have interest driven motives too but it would be diffuse across many areas not concentrated like a political party’s interests.
- teaearlgraycold 1y agoPrivate philanthropy doesn't feel like it's free from corruption.
- dotancohen 1y agoRecent events related to the Qatari funding make this poignant.
- kevinventullo 1y agoIs anything stopping private philanthropy from funding science today? Generally speaking it is in the government’s interest to support fundamental scientific research.
- pfannkuchen 1y agoI’m not aware of anything stopping it except for perhaps how the system is set up. Like if I want to fund a pet study that I’m interested in, can I just call up Harvard and offer the lab $1M to work on it? I’ve never heard of anyone doing that, but I’m not really sure why it doesn’t exist (which is why I’m asking if anyone else knows).
- warkdarrior 1y agoGive Harvard's Office for Sponsored Programs a call and tell them you are ready to award $1M. It really helps if you already have a lab or PI in mind. Office for Sponsored Programs 1033 Massachusetts Avenue 5th Floor Cambridge, MA 02138 USA 617-495-5501 osp@harvard.edu
- panarchy 1y agoThere's a reason the Americans discovered how to make atomic weapons first and it's because their researchers were living under a less oppressive state that wasn't motivated by anti-intellectualism and dumb ideology.
- pokstad 1y agoBut the Soviets made them second…
- epistasis 1y agoNot because they trusted their scientists to be able to do it though. They used the plans stolen form the US instead.
- eastbound 1y agoThe Soviets had the first flying object in space, the first animal in space, the first human in space, first spacewalk, first woman, first space station. I doubt those plans were all in the US, and if they were, the US didn’t use them.
- wolfgangK 1y ago> The Soviets had the […]first woman,[…] That is quite the claim !
- cheaprentalyeti 1y agoClaim? It's a matter of history. Her name is Valentina Tereshkova, and she's still alive. [0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentina_Tereshkova https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentina_Tereshkova
- MattPalmer1086 1y agoWoosh! It's clearly a joke. "first woman" vs "first woman in space".
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- oaiey 1y agoEvery day I wake up and see the United States drifting deeper into the totalitarian playbook. It scares the shit out of me.
- leptons 1y agoThe Republicans want it to collapse. They want to burn it down so they can rule over the ashes.
- ocschwar 1y agoThis ends science in the United States. You can't really enroll graduate students for a 5 year PHD project if their funding can be pulled at a moment's notice like this.
- 0xy 1y ago[flagged]
- SubiculumCode 1y agoTrash.
- birn559 1y agoNot sure how to read it. Do you believe covid-19 virus came from an US (funded) lab? I have never heard of that theory.
- russellbeattie 1y agoThis year is definitely the beginning of the end for American scientific leadership. The damage being done is incalculable. The best and brightest simply aren't going to want to come to the U.S. for an uncertain future where they'll be harassed at the airport every trip and then defunded or deported at any time for "political" reasons (a.k.a. racism, bigotry, religion, ignorance and anti-intellectualism). Amazingly, we're only 200 days into this administration. We have 3 years, 5 months and 12 days left, assuming we still have free and fair elections in 2028. For the next several years, the administration is going to continue to dismantle our country's foundations brick by brick, enabled by Congress and SCOTUS. The attack on immigrants is in full swing, but the total takeover of science, public education, universities and mass media is actually just beginning.
- msgodel 1y agoWhether it's real or just poor communication a lot of the country felt like the scientific institutions had been weaponized against them. Maybe the constituents of those institutions even believed either making themselves an enemy of the public or creating PR indicating they were was moral but the practical reality of public institutions is that they must have the trust of the public or they will come to an end. Hopefully people remember this for next time.
- esafak 1y ago"You may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you."
- EverydayBalloon 1y ago[dead]
- hinkley 1y agoHow much of this shit is even legal?
- 63 1y agoWe shall see. Undoubtedly much of this order will be challenged by some pretty powerful institutions and lawyers. Unfortunately, my confidence in the supreme court to uphold the fairest or least destructive interpretation of the law is at an all time low.
- wat10000 1y agoI know someone who lost their job in the recent cuts. They worked for a nonprofit funded by the government, and the funding was eliminated. It was challenged in court, and the government lost. They were ordered to restore funding. The person in charge of the funding just... didn’t pay. Legal or not, the money remained in the government’s accounts rather than the nonprofit’s, and the nonprofit shut down. Until we have actual penalties for the people in charge, it doesn’t even matter whether the courts uphold this stuff or not.
- spencerflem 1y agoI believed this too but the last few months we’ve seen powerful institution after institution just kinda give up or not even try
- stouset 1y agoWhat does “legal” even matter when you ignore lower courts, stop them from being able to issue injunctions, and have the Supreme Court in your pocket? This last election was the end of American democracy.
- SubiculumCode 1y agoThis is extremely disappointing, and worrisome. Science is hard enough without this bull
- CalRobert 1y agoIf European leadership has even half a brain cell this could be the catalyst for enormous growth in European science. But they’d need to act fast.
- nixass 1y agoNot until decision makers in Germany exchange ideas through fax machines first
- jimt1234 1y agoChina enters the chat.
- CalRobert 1y agoTrue, they won’t pay PhD’s €28,000 a year either.
- seanmcdirmid 1y agoChina is a pretty good place to be a scientists in certain fields. The pay is very competitive.
- CalRobert 1y agoYeah, I think what’s concerning is that it wasn’t obvious I meant 28k is obscenely low.
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- dyauspitr 1y agoI have no respect for republicans. Very hysterical people.
- yoyohello13 1y agoI truly cannot understand the people that support this administration. I know I certainly wouldn’t have chosen to defund education and healthcare while simultaneously running up the national dept to pay for a private police force loyal only to the president. I used to think there was some way to bridge the divide, but I just have no patience or respect for the other side anymore.
- NicoJuicy 1y agoBut JD Vance using the military so he can have high water while Kayaking for his birthday is ok Wtf US https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/06/jd-vance-ohio-lake-water-levels https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/06/jd-vance-ohi...
- bananapub 1y agoit truly is astonishing how idiotic or malicious so many of the posters on HN are in the face of this. yes, actually, it is bad if a bunch of racist lunatics are personally in charge of things, and increase their personal power to make arbitrary decisions based on their stupid hobby horses or deeply dumb opinions. yes, actually, this is different to when Biden or Obama or Bush presided over a functioning government, that had people you may or may not disagree with having some influence on things, this Trump Reign system is personalised autocracy. yes, actually, it is bad if the government's sole agenda is "implement dumb ideas from dumb people" and "fuck the left/non-whites/immigrants/scientists". it's especially dumb to be so unaware of why the world is so good now. it's not luck, it's centuries of hard work by our ancestors. why don't 50% of children simply die? because of medical research, healthcare, food subsidies, etc etc etc. why does the internet exist? because the US government funded a dumb thing for a while then a lot of other people and countries spent a lot of money and effort to make it this.
- archagon 1y ago[flagged]
- wtfwhateven 1y agoWhat extension do you use?
- archagon 1y ago“Comments Owl for Hacker News.”
- BrenBarn 1y agoIf an executive order can put grants under political control, they were already under political control. We just didn't know it. That is the case with so much of what is happening now. If these things are possible, the system was already broken.
- mmustapic 1y agoYou can’t make an unbreakable system, or, at least, it’s very difficult. The problem is that a big percentage of the population is ok with this, and in that case it doesn’t matter if it’s illegal or not. There is a reason why, even if allowed, governments didn’t do these kind of things: population didn’t want it.
- BrenBarn 1y agoUnless that "big" percentage is an outright majority of the citizenry --- not a majority of congressional districts, not a majority of electoral college votes, not a majority of the votes in the last election, but an outright majority of the actual desires of all citizens --- then the system is broken. I'm pretty sure that is not the case; it's at least debatable. But the problem is that we've bought into a system that says that doesn't matter.
- jjav 1y agoIn software terms, there has been a vulnerability in the constitution all along, it just had not been exploited until now. The three branches of government are supposed to be checks and balances against each other. But turns out two of the three don't have any actual power to enforce their mandates. This has worked as long as the three branches grudgingly respected each others role. But now that the executive branch simply decided to ignore the other two whenever convenient, turns out there is no recourse.
- threatofrain 1y agoThe GOP has majority in the Supreme Court and in Congress. It's not like there's a conflict of power. There's no disagreement going on.
- jaybrendansmith 1y agoHow would any of his actions, if looked at objectively, differ from the actions of one who was charged with the complete destruction of the United States of America.
- exasperaited 1y agoHe doesn't want to destroy the USA. Well not quite. He does want to fundamentally change it into an domestic empire -- a monarchical executive ruling over vassal states that have their own governments but must pay tribute. Well... he wants it to look more like a mafia arrangement because he was jealous of those guys back when he had a mafia lawyer in the 1970s. He likes to pressure people to do him little favours in return for protection (which is literally what he was impeached for the first time). He thinks he can direct industry to do what he wants (and it looks like industry kind of agrees). It is clear he intends to meddle in state law. They, the people around him, believe in what amounts to a unitary executive that converges on a form of monarchy. It's more or less central to the belief structure of a far-right guru, Curtis Yarvin (who is an ex tech guy and a nasty little racist dweeb): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Yarvin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Yarvin (He explicitly uses the word "monarch") There are many Yarvinists in the executive branch. There are also many in the AI community, and Musk consulted Yarvin about The America Party. Asserting control over academia is a Yarvin thing (and also a Viktor Orbán thing, because the model here is Hungary, quite deliberately, which is why e.g. Tucker Carlson and CPAC hang out there). That is what is going on here. They are injecting the executive into every part of academic life.
- jaybrendansmith 1y agoYes, not quite. But all that would obliterate the idea of the good ol' USA quite well: "I see a new nation ready to take its place in the world; not an empire, but a republic; and a republic of laws, not men."
- jonnycomputer 1y agoHey, and what will stop these political appointees from terminating grants because the scientists publicly support Democrats? or criticized Trump's public policy? Or called Stephen Miller a Nazi? And so now, I have to police my free speech and participation in the public sphere because I'm afraid someone might choose to nuke the lab. That's some bullshit there.
- dragonwriter 1y ago> Hey, and what will stop these political appointees from terminating grants because the scientists publicly support Democrats? Vigorous adherence to the First Amendment by the Administration and, failing that, vigorous enforcement of it by the federal courts. More seriously, nothing, and that’s the point.
- user____name 1y agoI wonder what the democrats are going to do when their midterms fail and their hats are out of rabbits.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Schmerika 1y agoLament the state of things, blame Republicans and third party voters, take more money from fossil fuel and AIPAC, do a bit more insider trading, and ask us all for more money because they're totally going to protect abortion rights and stop ICE this time. An arms embargo vs Israel would be wildly popular among Dem voters - but don't ask campaign staffers about it unless you want to be marked as "no response" [0]. 0 - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/uncommitted-leaders-stand-2024-strategy-trump-floats-gaza-takeover-rcna190782 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/uncommitted-le...