10 ms·
I'm surprised that most of the comments here are siding with Europe blindly? Am I the only one who assumes by default that European regulation will be heavy-ha
by rockemsockem 1y ago
I'm surprised that most of the comments here are siding with Europe blindly?
Am I the only one who assumes by default that European regulation will be heavy-handed and ill conceived?
- andrepd 1y agoSo you're surprised that people are siding with Europe blindly, but you're "assuming by default" that you should side with Meta blindly. Perhaps it's easier to actually look at the points in contention to form your opinion.
- rockemsockem 1y agoI don't remember saying anything about blindly deciding things being a good thing.
- 9dev 1y agoMaybe the others have put in a little more effort to understand the regulation before blindly criticising it? Similar to the GDPR, a lot of it is just common sense—if you don’t think that "the market" as represented by global mega-corps will just sort it out, that is.
- Alupis 1y agoOur friends in the EU have a long history of well-intentioned but misguided policy and regulations, which has led to stunted growth in their tech sector. Maybe some think that is a good thing - and perhaps it may be - but I feel it's more likely any regulation regarding AI at this point in time is premature, doomed for failure and unintended consequences.
- 9dev 1y agoYet at the same time, they also have a long history of very successful policy, such as the USB-C issue, but also the GDPR, which has raised the issue of our right to privacy all over the world. How long can we let AI go without regulation? Just yesterday, there was a report here on Delta using AI to squeeze higher ticket prices from customers. Next up is insurance companies. How long do you want to watch? Until all accountability is gone for good?
- rockemsockem 1y agoI mean, getting USB-C to be usable on everything is like a nice-to-have, I wouldn't call it "very successful policy".
- 9dev 1y agoIt’s just an example. The EU has often, and often successfully, pushed for standardisation to the benefit of end users.
- Alupis 1y agoWhich... has the consequences of stifling innovation. Regulations/policy is two-way street. Who's to say USB-C is the end-all-be-all connector? We're happy with it today, but Apple's Lightning connector had merit. What if two new, competing connectors come out in a few year's time? The EU regulation, as-is, simply will not allow a new technically superior connector to enter the market. Fast forward a decade when USB-C is dead, EU will keep it limping along - stifling more innovation along the way. Standardization like this is difficult to achieve via consensus - but via policy/regulation? These are the same governing bodies that hardly understand technology/internet. Normally standardization is achieved via two (or more) competing standards where one eventually "wins" via adoption. Well intentioned, but with negative side-effects.
- sensanaty 1y agoIf the industry comes out with a new, better connector, they can use it, as long as they also provide USB-C ports. If enough of them collectively decide the new one is superior, then they can start using that port in favor of USB-C altogether. The EU says nothing about USB-C being the bestest and greatest, they only say that companies have to come to a consensus and have to have 1 port that is shared between all devices for the sake of consumers. I personally much prefer USB-C over the horrid clusterfuck of proprietary cables that weren't compatible with one another, that's for sure.
- 1y ago
- ars 1y ago> GDPR You mean that thing (or is that another law?) that forces me to find that "I really don't care in the slightest" button about cookies on every single page?
- junto 1y agoNo, the laws that ensures that private individuals have the power to know what is stored about them, change incorrect data, and have it deleted unless legally necessary to hold it - all in a timely manner and financially penalize companies that do not.
- pelorat 1y ago> and have it deleted unless legally necessary to hold it Tell that to X which disables your ability to delete your account if it gets suspended.
- cenamus 1y agoThat's not the GDPR.
- anonymousab 1y agoThat is malicious compliance with the law, and more or less indicative of a failure of enforcement against offenders.
- rockemsockem 1y agoBut the law still caused that, of course regulation is going to be adversarial and they should anticipate that.
- sensanaty 1y agoNo, GDPR is the law that allowed me to successfully request the deletion of everything companies like Meta have ever harvested on me without my consent and for them to permanently delete it. Fun fact, GitHub doesn't have cookie banners. It's almost like it's possible to run a huge site without being a parasite and harvesting every iota of data of your site's visitors!
- rockemsockem 1y agoI'm specifically referring to several comments that say they have not read the regulation at all, but think it must be good if Meta opposes it.
- lovich 1y agoI’d side with Europe blindly over any corporation. The European government has at least a passing interest in the well being of human beings while that is not valued by the incentives that corporations live by
- rockemsockem 1y agoAll corporations that exist everywhere make worse decisions than Europe is a weirdly broad statement to make.
- qotgalaxy 1y ago[dead]
- rdm_blackhole 1y agoThe EU is pushing for a backdoor in all major messaging/email providers to "protect the children". No limits and no probable cause required. Everyone is a suspect. Are you still sure you want to side blindly with the EU?
- xandrius 1y agoIf I've got to side blindly with any entity it is definitely not going to be Meta. That's all there is.
- rockemsockem 1y agoI mean, ideally no one would side blindly at all :D
- js4ever 1y agoThat's the issue with people's from a certain side of politics, they don't vote for something they always side / vote against something or someone ... Blindly. It's like pure hate going over reason. But it's ok they are the 'good' ones so they are always right and don't really need to think
- amelius 1y agoSometimes people are just too lazy to read an article. If you just gave one argument in favor of Meta, then perhaps that could have started a useful conversation.
- bdangubic 1y agoPerhaps… if a sane person could find anything in favor of one of the most Evil corporations in the history of mankind…
- krapp 1y ago>if a sane person could find anything in favor of one of the most Evil corporations in the history of mankind. You need some perspective - Meta wouldn't even crack the top 100 in terms of evil: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abir_Congo_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abir_Congo_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_involved_in_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_involved_in_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuPont#Controversies_and_crimes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuPont#Controversies_and_crime... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiquita https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiquita
- zeptonix 1y agoEverything in this thread even remotely anti-EU-regulation is being extreme downvoted
- rockemsockem 1y agoYeah it's kinda weird. Feels like I need to go find a tech site full of people who actually like tech instead of hating it.
- blibble 1y agoI like tech I don't like meta or anything it has done, or stands for
- rockemsockem 1y agoSee that's crazy though. You don't like open source ML (including or not including LLMs, depending on how you feel about them) You don't like React? You don't like PyTorch? Like a lot of really smart and really dedicated people work on pretty cool stuff at Meta. You don't have to like Facebook, Instagram, etc to see that.
- cultureswitch 1y agoTo be fair, anyone who genuinely likes React is probably insane? Plenty of great projects are developed by people working at Meta. Doesn't change the fact that the company as a whole should be split in at least 6 parts, and at least two thirds of these parts should be regulated to death. And when it comes to activities that do not improve anyone's life such as advertisement and data collection, I do mean literally regulated into bankruptcy.
- rockemsockem 1y agoLol, I try to do as little frontend as possible anyway, seems like React is better than many alternatives though? The comment I responded to said Meta didn't do anything good, which is obviously affecting their opinion on whether Meta opposing European AI regulation can possibly be good. Certainly there's a lot of not great stuff Meta does.
- satellite2 1y agoWell Europe haven't enacted policies actually breaking American monopolies until now. Europeans are still essentially on Google, Meta and Amazon for most of their browsing experiences. So I'm assuming Europe's goal is not to compete or break American moat but to force them to be polite and to preserve national sovereignty on important national security aspects. A position which is essentially reasonable if not too polite.
- almatabata 1y ago> So I'm assuming Europe's goal is not to compete or break American moat but to force them to be polite and to preserve national sovereignty on important national security aspects. When push comes to shove the US company will always prioritize US interest. If you want to stay under the US umbrella by all means. But honestly it looks very short sighted to me. After seeing this news https://observer.co.uk/news/columnists/article/the-networker-microsoft-shutting-down-email-accounts-of-trumps-foes-should-be-worrying-to-us-all https://observer.co.uk/news/columnists/article/the-networker..., how can you have any faith that they will play nice? You have only one option. Grow alternatives. Fund your own companies. China managed to fund the local market without picking winners. If European countries really care, they need to do the same for tech. If they don't they will forever stay under the influence of another big brother. It is US today, but it could be China tomorrow.
- _zoltan_ 1y agoThe EU sucks at venture capital.
- notyourwork 1y agoWhat is bad about heavy handed regulation to protect citizens?
- _zoltan_ 1y agoit does not protect citizens? the EU shoves down a lot of the member state's throats.
- hardlianotion 1y agoHe also said “ill conceived”
- marginalia_nu 1y agoA good example of how this can end up with negative outcomes is the cookie directive, which is how we ended up with cookie consent popovers on every website that does absolutely nothing to prevent tracking and has only amounted to making lives more frustrating in the EU and abroad. It was a decade too late and written by people who were incredibly out of touch with the actual problem. The GDPR is a bit better, but it's still a far bigger nuisance for regular European citizens than the companies that still largely unhindered track and profile the same.
- zizee 1y agoSo because sometimes a regulation misses the mark, governments should not try to regulate?
- JumpCrisscross 1y agoI think OP is criticising blindly trusting the regulation hits the mark because Meta is mad about it. Zuckerberg can be a bastard and correctly call out a burdensome law.
- marginalia_nu 1y agoWell, pragmatically, I'd say no. We must judge regulations not by the well wishes and intentions behind them but the actual outcomes they have. These regulations affect people, jobs and lives. The odds of the EU actually hitting a useful mark with these types of regulations, given their technical illiteracy, it's is just astronomically unlikely.
- remram 1y ago"blindly"? Only if you assume you are right in your opinion can you arrive at the conclusion that your detractors didn't learn about it. Since you then admit to "assume by default", are you sure you are not what you complain about?
- rockemsockem 1y agoI was specifically referring to several comments that specifically stated that they did not know what the regulation was, but that they assumed Europe was right and Meta was wrong. I, prior to reading the details of the regulation myself, was commenting on my surprise at the default inclinations of people. At no point did I pass judgement on the regulation and even after reading a little bit on it I need to read more to actually decide whether I think it's good or bad. Being American it impacts me less, so it's lower on my to do list.
- OtomotO 1y agoAre you aware of the irony in your post?
- rockemsockem 1y agoI don't recall sharing my opinion on this particular regulation. I think perhaps you need to reread my comment or lookup "irony"
- campl3r 1y agoOr you know, some actually read it and agree?
- rockemsockem 1y agoI'm specifically talking about comments that say they haven't read it, but that they side with Europe. Look through the thread, there's a ton like that
- troupo 1y ago> Am I the only one who assumes by default And that's the problem: assuming by default. How about not assuming by default? How about reading something about this? How about forming your own opinion, and not the opinion of the trillion- dollar supranational corporations?
- rockemsockem 1y agoAre you saying that upon reading a sentence like "Meta disagrees with European regulation" That you don't have an immediate guess at which party you are most likely to agree with? I do and I think most people do. I'm not about to go around spreading my uninformed opinion though. What my comment said was that I was surprised at people's kneejerk reaction that Europe must be right, especially on HN. Perhaps I should have also chided those people for commenting at all, but that's hindsight for you.
- troupo 1y agoThe "kneejerk reaction" is precisely because it's Meta. You know, the poor innocent trillion-dollar supranational corporation whose latest foray into AI was "opt-in all of our users into training our AI and make the opt-out an awkward broken multi-step process designed to discourage the opt-out". Whereas EU's "heavy-handed and ill-conceived" regulations are "respect copyright, respect user choice, document your models, and use AI responsibly".
- rockemsockem 1y agoThis is literally an ad hominem. Meta is capable of having correct actions and opinions and you are grossly oversimplifying the EU regulation.
- seydor 1y agoIt's just foreign interests trying to keep Europe down
- rockemsockem 1y agoI feel like Europe does a plenty good job of that itself
- cultureswitch 1y agoLet's see, how many times did I get robo-called in the last decade? Zero :) Sometimes the regulations are heavy-handed and ill-conceived. Most of the time, they are influenced by one lobby or another. For example, car emissions limits scale with _weight_ of all things, which completely defeats the point and actually makes today's car market worse for the environment than it used to be, _because of_ emissions regulations. However, it is undeniable that that the average European is better off in terms of privacy.