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Show HN: Refine – A Local Alternative to Grammarly
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- gbalduzzi 1y agoDoes this only supports English?
- runjuu 1y agoTheoretically, it could support over 140 languages, as it is powered by the newly released Gemma 3n model. However, I haven’t tested many languages yet. In upcoming releases, Refine will support custom prompts and BYOK (Bring Your Own Key), allowing you to use any large language model you want.
- pyman 1y agoWhat's the rationale behind adding BYOK? Or the advantages? You do realise you're already using an optimised model built for everyday devices, and that model includes some serious innovations in parameter-efficient processing, right? You're a great developer, and it looks like you're thinking about adding features like BYOK quickly to please more users. But in doing that, you might be missing the real innovation you've already created. You've basically built a version of Grammarly without the privacy issues that make most IT departments ban it. No one wants Grammarly or your tool sending corporate emails or documents to a language model. Privacy is what sets you apart from Grammarly. It's your biggest feature right now. Add a big table to your site comparing your products privacy with Grammarly's. That's your strongest selling point, and probably the only feature that can truly compete with the big players. My advice? Keep improving the app, but keep the model local. Keep it private. That's the killer feature you've got.
- rubslopes 1y agoOne can have a beefier server at home and may want to use it for running the model while out and about with their laptop.
- planb 1y agoSeams weird to not have "How does this compare to Apple Intelligence Writing Tools" at least in the FAQ. Maybe refine is better or has more features, but the page doesn't even seem to acknowledge that a system level feature like this exists.
- Nicell 1y agoNeat idea. I see why the fluency feature is off by default. It constantly rewords things, adds random quotations, or does something pretty silly https://imgur.com/oVSWmtN https://imgur.com/oVSWmtN The Grammar feature seems to have weird suggestions/cycles too on a little bit more testing. Curious to see how this improves. A local only, one-time-purchase grammarly alternative is appealing!
- mirrormaster 1y agoIsn't privacy a concern? How do consumers ensure that data is not going to captured in a future update without it being open source or having third party security audits?
- awestroke 1y agoThat's a concern with all apps ever so idk what answer you're expecting
- mananaysiempre 1y agoExcept the open-source ones, or sandboxed[1] ones without any auto-update functionality (not sure if this app has any). [1] Loosely; I’d say not referencing any networking entrypoints or dlsym() also counts, as working around that would be very non-deniably malicious.
- reconnecting 1y agoPerhaps this type of software could be either open-source with full code accessibility, or proprietary but from a highly trustworthy entity responsible for privacy both legally and reputationally. Currently, both approaches are missing.
- reconnecting 1y agoDisagreed. It's not concerned with all apps, because most commercial applications have legal entities explaining how they use collected data. In this particular case, this is something called 'Refine', and it's not a legal entity, therefore, questioning its data privacy approach is fully legitimate.
- reconnecting 1y agoI also strongly believe that it’s a primary question when we talk about keyboard input.
- Deukhoofd 1y agoDoes anyone know how this compares to other products in its field, such as LanguageTool and Harper? LanguageTool can be hosted locally, and Harper runs entirely as an extension, so I'm interested in how the spelling and grammar checks compare.
- boramalper 1y ago+1. Also worth noting that both LanguageTool [0] and Harper [1] are FOSS. [0] https://languagetool.org/ https://languagetool.org/ [1] https://writewithharper.com/ https://writewithharper.com/
- yencabulator 1y agoHarper is an Automattic asshole property now: https://automattic.com/2024/11/21/automattic-welcomes-harper-and-elijah-potter/ https://automattic.com/2024/11/21/automattic-welcomes-harper...
- raegis 1y agoI just tested both on the text "Look Dick. See Jane. Jane run home. I says you go home to. They eats dinner." LanguageTool does what I would expect. Harper does not. However, both whine about two spaces after a period. Edit: Alas, Hacker News also removes the extra space after periods.
- codesnik 1y agobrowser rendering does. You'd need white-space: pre-wrap rule to retain double spaces.
- dreamcompiler 1y agoExtra space after periods is never correct with proportionally-spaced fonts, which is why all browsers remove it by default. Two spaces after periods is a kludge invented for typewriters that had monospaced fonts and touch typing teachers need to stop teaching it in the modern era where most writing uses proportional fonts.
- smartmic 1y agoWorth to mention as another alternative: Harper[0] [0]: https://writewithharper.com/ https://writewithharper.com/
- patrakov 1y agoHarper is so basic that I can't recommend it. Does not catch a singular/plural discrepancy between the subject and the verb in a sentence--a common mistake when the expressed thought applies equally to one thing or to many things. Does not catch a missed indefinite article--a common mistake for speakers of languages that don't have articles. Similarly, does not catch the use of the indefinite article for a thing already mentioned before. Does not even catch the obvious "don;t" typo.
- clay10 1y agoHave you raised these as issues? The developer has been extremely responsive in my experience. I use Harper in my Neovim setup and its been great. I just add things that are missing from the dictionary when I come across them in my codebase
- speckx 1y agoOpen ticket about "don;t" typo, see https://github.com/Automattic/harper/issues/1559 https://github.com/Automattic/harper/issues/1559
- patrakov 1y agoThat's mine! And it's already fixed; I am indeed amazed by the developer's responsiveness.
- InsideOutSanta 1y agoThis is precisely what I've been hoping somebody would build. In my initial testing, it works well. I can even mix sentences with different languages, and it still makes correct suggestions. The fluency suggestions are seemingly largely malfunctioning. It frequently suggests starting and ending sentences with quotes, although it also makes some useful suggestions. There seems to be an issue with analysis running synchronized, or something like that; when I type into a text field and Refine starts to run, it often blocks text entry. Selecting a suggested replacement blocks the app for half a second or so. Neither of these problems occurs with Grammarly or Language Tool. I also noticed a bunch of issues that Grammarly catches (like verb agreement) that Refine does not. But this is an amazing first release and extremely promising. Congrats!
- nk8620 1y agowhy is there no open source alternatives to this? Seems ripe to be just built.
- chilipepperhott 1y agoHarper? https://github.com/Automattic/harper https://github.com/Automattic/harper
- janpmz 1y agoHow big is the model that powers this?
- Yoric 1y agoWhat I'd be interested in would be something I could host on my local server (e.g. with ollama) to get suggestions on my laptop, where I write typst or markdown with Zed or VSCode. I realize I'm a niche :) Does anybody know of such a tool?
- Yeri 1y agoI'm missing some information on how this works (a LLM? which? Do I need to bring an API key? Does this work offline?) and what I can expect in terms of performance/battery hit.
- parkcedar 1y ago> Lightning Fast. Local processing means instant results without internet dependency or delays. > Always Available. Works offline, on flights, in coffee shops, anywhere you write. Two of your 4 questions were answered in the first content block
- zipping1549 1y agoConsidering that it mentions offline capability I'd say local tiny LLM.
- d3m0t3p 1y agoIt is Gemma 3n, I can't give feedback yet on the battery hit, But I would not expect anything bad as these models have been developed for much smaller devices (Phones)
- diimdeep 1y agoIt does this This phrase is offensive and violates my safety guidelines. Therefore, I will not revise it. I am programmed to avoid generating responses that are obscene, or that contain profanity. because what's under the hood is this, and prompts are hardcoded unsloth/gemma-3n-E4B-it-GGUF You are a precision editor guided by a custom style manual. Your tasks are ordered by priority. Your primary rule is to consult the provided REFERENCE DICTIONARY. Any term on this list is correct and must be preserved exactly as written. Your secondary rule is to refine phrasing and sentence structure to improve clarity, conciseness, and flow. The goal is to make the text read more naturally and professionally, while **strictly preserving the author's core meaning and tone.** Your final rule is to output ONLY the clean, revised text. You MUST NOT add any commentary, greetings, or explanations. REFERENCE DICTIONARY: {{dictionary_words}} Revise the following: "{{sentence}}" You are an expert editor. Your single most important goal is to improve the fluency and clarity of the following text while STRICTLY PRESERVING the author's original voice and meaning. You MUST follow these rules: 1. Only rephrase sentences that are genuinely awkward or unclear. 2. Never make changes for purely stylistic preference. Return ONLY the clean, revised text. Revise the following: "{{sentence}}" {{dictionary_words}} You are a silent grammar correction engine with a custom style guide. Your primary rule is to consult the provided REFERENCE DICTIONARY. Any term on this list is correct and must be preserved exactly as written. Your secondary rule is to correct all other grammar, spelling, and punctuation errors in the main text. Your final rule is to output ONLY the clean, corrected text. You MUST NOT add any commentary, greetings, or explanations. REFERENCE DICTIONARY: {{dictionary_words}} Correct the following: "{{sentence}}" You are a silent grammar correction engine. Your sole function is to receive text and output the corrected version. You MUST NOT add any commentary, greetings, or explanations. You will only return the clean, corrected text. Correct the following: "{{sentence}}"
- slacktivism123 1y agoIncredible. Has any non-AI grammar checker ever returned a "safety" refusal to the user before? Is this the power of LLM wrappers?
- 1y ago
- Inviz 1y agoCouldnt make it to show suggestions in vscode/cursor. I would like to use the tool, but i'd expect it to work consistently across all widgets in the system (i.e. like superwhisper). Is there a technical limitation here or my misconfiguration of things?
- cjs_ac 1y agoThe screenshot shows the (corrected) example sentence: > Sometimes I still make mistakes with articles and prepositions, but my grammar is getting better every day I practice. In American/Simplified English, this is grammatically correct. However, in 'full fat' English, practice is a noun, whereas practise is a verb; e.g.: > I go to my practice to practise medicine. The problem I have with this website is that it's entirely concerned with peripheral issues. The product respects my privacy - good. The product is performant - good. The product doesn't require an Internet connection - good. The product works in many writing apps - good. The product has transparent pricing - good. But I don't give a shit about any of this until you convince me that this will consistently do the correct thing, and this website singularly fails to achieve this.
- tossandthrow 1y agoI get this. > ... in 'full fat' English ... English is a bastard of a language and getting messier every day as new nations adopt it is their standard language. Setting the bar where it is well written and unambiguously understandable is IMHO completely fine for a 15$ product. Having a text spell checked to comply with contemporary Oxford English is likely not the goal of this product.
- cjs_ac 1y ago> English is a bastard of a language and getting messier every day as new nations adopt it is their standard language. I disagree strenuously with this idea, because it suggests that there is one 'big' English in which anything goes. A better idea is the one of the register[0]: there are many Englishes, many sets of rules. Different rules are used in different regions, by different groups of people, and have different connotations (e.g., the King James Bible was intentionally written in a form of English that was considered archaic at the time because that would make it sound more grandiose). If I were to use this tool, I'd be using it to ensure that whatever I'm writing is well-received by my intended audience. Because English usage is so varied, I would need to be able to control the register that it uses to ensure that the output is suitable. The fact that the product website doesn't even mention a list of supported languages, let alone supported dialects and registers within those languages, has a very everyone can see what a horse is kind of feeling[1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_(sociolinguistics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_(sociolinguistics) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nowe_Ateny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nowe_Ateny
- londons_explore 1y ago> Powered by local AI models I worry that this will make my writing more likely to fail an AI coursework detector, which could really impact my life. The risk just isn't worth it till someone has tested the output through all the big players (turnitin etc.)
- raincole 1y agoIf I use correct punctuation marks my work will be more likely to be \detected\ as AI written; The risk just isn"t worth it so I never do that^
- FabHK 1y agoIt's hilarious, on some other sites one is immediately accused of using ChatGPT when using the n-dash (–) or m-dash (—) instead of the hyphen (-). Not an issue with the monospaced font here. ETA: I stand corrected.
- londons_explore 1y agoChatGPT tends to speak in american english, which means it's obvious to readers in the rest of the world because local phrases aren't used.
- InsideOutSanta 1y agoWe'll soon need a writing tool that introduces spelling and grammar errors into our text and messes with punctuation so that we aren't accused of using LLMs.
- aaronbaugher 1y agoIt's funny how many people still think sloppy, mistake-filled writing is a sign of AI, as if their writing is at the same level as the image generators giving people six fingers, when the truth is the current LLMs use better English grammar than 99% of humans. Their writing may be kind of boring and standard, but they don't confuse "their" and "there."
- admiralrohan 1y agoIf you are running local LLMs what is the hardware requirement in my machine? Don't see any mention of that.
- ggerganov 1y agoGemma 3n (the model used by this app) would run on any Apple Silicon device (even with 8GB RAM).
- chilipepperhott 1y agoYup, but you're automatically giving up a ton of RAM that could be better used for Slack.
- smcleod 1y agoHow well does it handle standard international English? So many of the tools I've seen seem to only support American English.
- Andrew_nenakhov 1y agoSpeaking of which, isn't it time to consider American English to be the standard one? Colour and licence are so quaint.
- smcleod 1y agoWell, only Americans use it. There's no point in arguing about it your version of a language is better or worse but for the rest of the world it's incredibly annoying having to correct Zs with Ss when using LLMs or American only software.
- Andrew_nenakhov 1y agoI'm actually Russian. The whole world uses American English, by virtue of US dominance in all important technical and cultural spheres.
- smcleod 1y ago"The only whole world uses American English" ... I think you might be living in a bubble. It sticks out like a sore thumb.
- larnon 1y agoHe is actually correct. I am neither American nor English.
- bigDinosaur 1y agoCommonwealth nations tend to not use American English. They form a fairly major part of the world.
- jasekt 1y agoWonderful! I've given it a go, works in Apple's Notes app, but it does not seem to trigger suggestions in Chrome, Firefox or Slack. It does however highlight misspellings there. Any idea what can I do to enable suggestions there? I was looking for a product like this.
- gardnr 1y agoYou can use a local instance of LanguageTool in a docker container for this: https://github.com/gardner/LocalLanguageTool https://github.com/gardner/LocalLanguageTool
- DonsDiscountGas 1y agoA lot of people would rather pay $15 than mess with docker containers
- koiueo 1y agoGosh people love complicating things. You don't need docker (a Linux-only piece of tech) to run a java application. Even though I'm on Linux, and docker experience is waaaaay better here than on any other platform, I wouldn't in my life consider using it to run LanguageTool. java -cp languagetool-server.jar org.languagetool.server.HTTPServer
- idoubtit 1y agoA command without context is not very useful. If anyone wants to run LanguageTool locally, I suggest reading the official documentation page: https://dev.languagetool.org/http-server https://dev.languagetool.org/http-server Their recommended process is : 1. Install fasttext (it's an official Debian package, but you have to compile it on Windows). 2. Download and uncompress the LanguageTool release. 3. Create a config file. 4. Launch the server with the java command (of course, a JRE must be installed). 5. Connect to the API, e.g. with the browser extension. Running a ready-made docker image replaces steps 1-4 and removes the need to install Java globally. Some will prefer it this way.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- koiueo 1y ago> 2. Download and uncompress the LanguageTool release. > Running a ready-made docker image replaces steps 1-4 We can go pretty low level in the docker option too. 1. Download a Linux installation image 2. Download a hypervisor 3. Install Linux on the virtual machine 4. Install docker in a virtual Linux machine 5. Launch LanguageTool container 6. Configure networking between the host and the container in the guest 7. Connect to the API, e.g. with the browser extension Obviously I initially oversimplified by omitting the configuration step. But adding download step to inflate the complexity is not a fair play ;-) I'd argue that running a platforn-native artifact is both simpler and easier than involving virtualization. Even if steps 1-4 are done by some magical tool like rancher or docker-desktop
- nusl 1y agoI've installed it to give it a try but it does absolutely nothing in any application I use. I did give it required permissions.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- zhravan 1y agoIs it Open Source?
- gregjw 1y agoIt'd be neat if there was an open source solution this polished.
- utf_8x 1y agoHoly crap, a local-only app with one-time purchase *and* a free demo? You don't see that very often these days
- AbstractH24 1y agoMy biggest problem with Grammarly is how buggy it is. How often it doesn’t work as intended and either messes up formatting or doesn’t change the text when I click. Does Refine solve this?
- atmosx 1y agoI would pay 50$ a year if this had a vim integration.
- rsoury 1y agoIf this were open source AGPL it'd be an insta-download.
- wkjagt 1y agoVery cool product. And thank you for not making it a subscription. > Can’t find the answer you’re looking for? Feel free to sent us an email at support@refine.sh Should be "send". Especially with this kind of product, you shouldn't have grammar mistakes on the website :)
- amelius 1y agoI'm really wondering if/why Grammarly still has a business case, in this age of LLMs.
- koiueo 1y agoIt's beyond me how they still refuse to offer an official API. Gemini subscription costs as much, allows me to do much more, and I can call it from vim or emacs without some arcane acrobatics
- netule 1y agoThey used to have an API, which they removed about two years ago or so. Until then, there were a bunch of 3rd-party Grammarly plugins, including a pretty decent one for VSCode.
- pmdr 1y agoMainly because (cloud-hosted, bigger & smarter) LLMs probably offer no added privacy benefit. Self-hosted models are dumber, neutered and unpredictable.
- mcapodici 1y agoLanguagetool is an open source tool you can run as a local spelling and grammar checker. It's different to Grammarly - less AI and more rules based. I often use both tools at the same time. I wrote a quick intro on how to self host this - https://martincapodici.com/2025/05/10/check-your-writing-using-the-open-source-languagetool https://martincapodici.com/2025/05/10/check-your-writing-usi....
- illiac786 1y agoLanguageTool only works in the browser though, as far as I can tell?
- amake 1y agoThere is a local-only, no-signup-required executable available at https://languagetool.org/download/ https://languagetool.org/download/ They don't advertise this because they are trying to push their paid online services. I have complained about this, but they didn't seem to care.
- reconnecting 1y agoThere is no guarantee that this software will not occasionally start acting as a keylogger. If somehow this happens (let's assume not intentionally), will it be the direct responsibility of the author? Legally, there is no entity behind that responsible for privacy (1), and honestly, I don't see even minimal reason to trust this software from a legal perspective. 1. https://refine.sh/privacy-policy https://refine.sh/privacy-policy
- woadwarrior01 1y agoThere's no reason to trust it from a technical perspective either. The app is unsandboxed. Easy enough to check from the CLI. codesign --display --verbose=4 Refine.app 2>&1 | grep sandbox Apple provides a network client entitlement[1] that sandboxed apps must have, to connect to the network. Since this app isn't sandboxed, that restriction doesn't apply. Personally, I only use software that was either built on my machine or downloaded off of the Mac App Store (MAS apps have the be mandatory sandboxed). [1]: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/bundleresources/entitlements/com.apple.security.network.client https://developer.apple.com/documentation/bundleresources/en...
- reconnecting 1y agoMost of the time, both legal and technical misalignments walk together. Thank you for noticing this.
- runjuu 1y agoWell, I understand the security benefits of sandboxing. However, Apple's sandbox restrictions prevent apps from using Accessibility APIs, which are essential for Refine to read and enhance text across different applications. Many popular apps, like Grammarly and Raycast, are also not sandboxed for the same reason. Without these APIs, Refine wouldn’t be able to provide a seamless text refinement experience. Otherwise, why wouldn’t we just use ChatGPT to correct the grammar?
- throwawayffffas 1y agoIsn't that true of all software? How do you know that grammarly is not already doing that your data is transmitted to their servers after all.
- sgarland 1y agoDoes this do tone? That is the single largest feature of Grammarly’s Slack plugin that I absolutely loved, and if my work allowed it, I’d have it again.
- chilipepperhott 1y agoLLM usage would immediately disqualify this from most academic writing.
- nakovet 1y agoMinor thing with the website but the download button is not entirely clickable, if you don't click on the text you don't get to download it, due to the div > a and the anchor being just the text, consider styling the anchor to have the padding so the whole thing is clickable. :)
- j45 1y agoI wonder if there was some complexity with internationalizing or localizing English (UK English, etc) outside of the primary build case.
- slyssh 1y ago[dead]
- diekhans 1y agoNo API to hook into one's favorite tools, such as emacs.
- gaws 1y agoLanguageTool works perfectly with Emacs.
- odo1242 1y agoHas anyone tested how this works in comparison to locally-hosted LanguageTool?
- throwawayffffas 1y agoDoes anyone know of an equivalent for translations, ideally open source though?
- valorantPanda 1y agoNice product! Does it support other language like Chinese?
- lessurliu 1y agoI tried it and it worked pretty well. I'm curious about the principle behind it. Is there any model or API being called?
- sarmadgulzar 1y agoI see that you're using gemma3n which is a 4B parameter model and utilizes around 3GB RAM. How do you handle loading/offloading the model into the RAM? Or is it always in the memory as long as the app is running?
- chilipepperhott 1y agoI can see this as a major issue. If you start using this for grammar checking, you're basically subtracting 3GB of RAM from your system.
- zamalek 1y agoI'm a Linux adherent, but I can't understand how a "normie tool" like this wouldn't release to Windows first. You're hitting <15% (<30% for US) of the market. Even if you only care about developers, you're hitting the worst of all 3 (Windows, Mac, Linux) with a MacOS only release[1]. [1]: https://truelist.co/blog/linux-statistics/ https://truelist.co/blog/linux-statistics/ https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/ https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/
- naniwaduni 1y agoIn spite of the market share figures, Mac apps have had a disproportionate share of of devs and users willing to pay for long time. Love the pie graph that that adds up to 153%, though.
- mindfulhacker 1y agoout of curiosity: how did you handle the trade-offs between model size and quality for grammar correction?