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Missed opportunity to talk about the locals creative responses to this. One cafe in Tokyo is asking customers to leave negative reviews on Google and Trip Advi
by paulgerhardt 1y ago
Missed opportunity to talk about the locals creative responses to this.
One cafe in Tokyo is asking customers to leave negative reviews on Google and Trip Advisor to prevent over exposure (it mostly works but made me curious enough to visit).
Another specific $10 Michelin guide ramen restaurant only lets you order from a vending machine outside using a payment method you can’t access as a foreigner (one needs a physical JCB card or QUICPay - EPOS/Suica/Pasmo/Cash etc wouldn’t work).
A matcha place I like only lets you order from the real menu after you’ve unlocked enough visits from a punch card.
A resort slightly off but near the beaten path markets itself as an onsen but that’s maybe 4% of the amenities. That said, they’re serious about “no entry” if you have tattoos.
And a few more of the seedier bars just have the (time honored) “no foreigners” sign out front.
- JCharante 1y agohow does the physical JCB card prevent people? Amex has an agreement with JCB (for over 20 years) for JCB to process all Amex cards. Amex is accepted everywhere because JCB is accepted everywhere
- wichert 1y agoVending machines outside is pretty much the standard for ramen restaurants. Most of them will take passmo/suica, which most foreigners are also likely to have since it is also used for all public transport.
- tanjtanjtanj 1y agoI’ve been to this restaurant. They take cash as payment so I don’t think they are trying to dissuade tourists. Also, just a short few years ago I would say less than 10% of restaurants took any form of electronic payment.
- franciscop 1y agoI've been 10 years on-and-off, and 10% sound way too low _if we include_ Suica/Pasmo. Credit card is another story and I'd agree.
- anigbrowl 1y agoThis is also tied to labor availability. A vending machine interface is expensive to set up, but less than the cost of a full time cashier.
- NalNezumi 1y agohttps://www.reddit.com/r/funnysigns/comments/1getgra/a_restaurant_in_kyoto_put_up_this_sign_to_block/ https://www.reddit.com/r/funnysigns/comments/1getgra/a_resta... Edit: The red text at the bottom says: この日本語が読める方は、 ご入店くださいませ = "if you can read this Japanese text, please come in" Edit 2: just the original reddit post link then
- mrln 1y agoThe link is dead
- imp0cat 1y agoIt's not. However this is easily "beaten" by using circle to search -> translate on your smart phone.
- abcd_f 1y agoAfter "beating" it with a translator, take a hint and don't enter still.
- DaSHacka 1y agoXenophobia: :( Xenophobia, Japan: :)
- bee_rider 1y agoI guess the trick will be less effective to the extent to which people try to work around it. But, 1) most people wouldn’t bother to translate something with a fake translation right above it 2) why do people want to go places they aren’t welcome? It is good to let the locals have some things…
- Tainnor 1y agoTo be fair, that's not a very difficult sentence to read for someone who has studied a moderate amount of Japanese. Doesn't mean you could actually order food.
- 1y ago
- bryanlarsen 1y ago> And a few more of the seedier bars just have a “no foreigners” sign out front. Those have existed long before tourism to Japan became common. Those signs were there when the vast majority of foreigners in Japan were English teachers and soldiers. Many tabehodai (all-you-can-eat) and most nomihodai (all-you-can-drink) places had them.
- Pooge 1y ago> nomihodai I think this is for economic/profit reasons. I am not a strong drinker at all but I can drink 4-5 [X] sour but my Japanese friends were already well intoxicated with 1 or 2 beers...
- jalapenos 1y agoI think more for liability reasons. If you tell a male [insert western country] university student on holiday that it's "all you can drink for $20" there's going to be bodies.
- freeopinion 1y agoAt 100kg, I never noticed that I ate more than my 65kg friends, but it still made me feel questionable at a tabehodai.
- pezezin 1y agoThen your friends are quite weak, because I know plenty of Japanese people who drink like sponges... my GF among them, she is your average short Japanese lady and yet she can drink twice as much a me o_O
- Pooge 1y agoI think you got it the other way; your girlfriend is quite a strong drinker. Every Asian I've met gets a red face from their first glass of wine. Of course I'm not saying that every Asian must be like that. However it's well known that they're not heavy drinkers (compared to, let's say, an average English, Nordic or Russian drinker).
- seanmcdirmid 1y agoSnack bars (the seedier bars you talk about) have always had a policy of no foreigners. In fact, I think it’s just in the standard snacks bar sign template.
- timr 1y agoI have been to many snack bars. They're everywhere, they're not "seedy", and nearly all of them are open to anyone.
- NalNezumi 1y agoMany places also (used to) have sign saying 一見さんおことわり which roughly translate to "first time visitor not allowed". A little bit up to interpretation but usually in the scope of: * store only for patrons, but welcome if you come with patron. * anyone welcome but if you're only coming once (tourist etc), please don't (destroy the vibe). For obvious reasons foreign tourist couldn't get this so many places just put up a "no foreigner" sign. You'll still see local foreigner sometimes hang around those places though
- GolDDranks 1y agoI've been to many snack bars, and once in my almost ten years in Japan, I found one that didn't welcome foreigners.
- Klonoar 1y agoThis is false, IME. If you spent enough time to learn how to navigate it, you could get in to most of them. I'm not even fluent and it really wasn't a big deal. I did this living there from ~2009 - ~2016. Wasn't an issue in my visits afterwards either, at least up until the COVID years. I will say that when I go back each year (1x/2x per) post COVID, I've seen more of them trying to be firm on it though - presumably due to the tourism influx.
- agnishom 1y agoThat may be true, but I don't think that's what they were talking about. They were talking about fairly normal izakayas
- WangComputers 1y ago"they’re serious about “no entry” if you have tattoos" That's nothing unusual in Japan, even Japanese people in Japan can't join a gym or get car insurance if they've got tattoos. They're serious about that stuff for a reason.
- AnotherGoodName 1y agoI suspect a blind eye would be turned if it’s pretty obviously not a yakuza tattoo right?
- imp0cat 1y agoI wouldn't think so. It seemed to me that most places were quite strict about it.
- notpushkin 1y agoI think it’s very taboo regardless of the tattoo design. That said, there are also tattoo-friendly places, and ones where you can just put a bandaid over.
- dagw 1y agoIt's fairly unusual to strictly enforce it on foreigners. Every place I've been with a no tattoos policy generally overlook tourists with smaller unassuming tattoos.
- Jcampuzano2 1y agoI went to Japan for about a month as someone with tattoos. I didn't have many issues out and about but I was told in the gym and I could not have them showing. I just wore sleeves over them and although less comfortable than my normal gym attire it was fine. I was denied access to an Onsen because I honestly forgot about the tattoo thing for a while but was able to find one that was tattoo friendly. They were not mean or anything they just informed me it was policy. Completely understandable given the history. My tattoos are very noticeable though. Like you would never miss large forearm tattoos, so it's probably hard for them to overlook for them and let it slide even for a foreigner
- timr 1y agoI don't know about the Ramen place (I can't believe that they wouldn't take cash?), but I agree with you that more places are doing this kind of "two markets" stuff -- it's even becoming official, in that now there's officially sanctioned "foreigner pricing" for certain temples, shrines, and parks. There's also Google Maps and Yelp vs. Japan's local version (pretty much any review on the former two are useless, and hopelessly biased by clueless tourists). I'm of mixed minds. I really miss the days when it was possible to be welcomed pretty much anywhere as a foreigner and have almost universal expectations of high quality, scam-free experiences, but those days are pretty much gone now. Foreigners are lining up for mediocre tourist traps because of something they saw on TikTok or Instagram, and there are business people who are willing to take advantage of that fact. It's also really difficult to serve your local clientele when tourists "discover" your establishment. I have a friend with a restaurant that has become known amongst foreign tourists, and it's nearly impossible for the locals in the neighborhood to visit now. I was talking about it with him a month or so back, and while he seemed happy to have the money -- and therefore unwilling to change the situation -- he also interacted with the tourists in a completely different way. He had a back-channel reservation mechanism for locals and people he knows, but it still requires advance planning for a place that used to be a casual, walk-in experience.
- amluto 1y ago> I really miss the days when it was possible to be welcomed pretty much anywhere as a foreigner and have almost universal expectations of high quality, scam-free experiences How long ago was that? It was certainly true in fairly large portions of the world, but there are plenty of places where, for as long as I can remember, you could pretty much expect to be scammed regularly. In many cases those scams would be for trivial (to visitors from wealthy countries) amounts of money, but it nonetheless often seemed like a large fraction of local economies would be driven by scamming tourists. I think that the real recent change is that the “beaten path” of touristy areas has gotten larger.
- imp0cat 1y agoIn Japan? A few years ago the experience was completely different.
- deaddodo 1y ago> That said, they’re serious about “no entry” if you have tattoos. This is not uncommon in Japan, in general. Usually it's more of an anti-Yakuza/riffraff regulation than an anti-foreigner one. It just so happens to kill two birds with one stone, in some cases.
- returningfory2 1y agoIndeed, but in my experience many of these places have an unspoken sub-rule that the tattoo rule is not enforced for foreigners.
- jayd16 1y agoSeems like if you smile and act friendly and dumb and American you get a lot of slack along with the Japanese shopkeeper version of an eye roll and a headpat.
- androidoka 1y agoThis is a part of the issue, knowing the rules but nonetheless not following them. And then — culturally unaware — thinking it's ok because nobody says anything.
- BobaFloutist 1y agoI mean "don't have a tattoo" isn't really a rule you can follow based on a sign very easily.
- ponector 1y agoBut somehow you can follow rules with signs like "women(men) only". I bet it's easier to follow no tattoo rule.
- BobaFloutist 1y agoI mean you can't quickly remove a tattoo or change your gender based on a sign.
- mock-possum 1y agoUgh the ‘no tattoo’ discrimination thing really bugs me.
- varispeed 1y agoI remember this. Wanted to order something from a vending machine and had no clue what to do. I went to a nearby hotel and asked person at the reception to help. They actually agreed and bought the item I wanted and didn't want cash for it. Made my day.
- keysdev 1y agoIts about time we do that. This look online for good local places to go needs to stop. You either live there for some times and discover the place by getting to know the locals or yeah you just do not get to know the place.
- okdood64 1y ago> And a few more of the seedier bars just have the (time honored) “no foreigners” sign out front. Eh, even some non "seedy" ones have it. It's common enough.
- patrickscoleman 1y agoEven as a foreigner who speaks Japanese, I frequently got the "we're closed" and crossing the hands in an X response while locals continued eating. Sometime they'd laugh and I'd hear "gaijin" (rude slang for foreigner) as I walked out. But plenty of places were super warm and friendly after the initial apprehension if you speak Japanese and read some kanji. Worth the effort!
- tmtvl 1y agoIf I remember correctly, gaijin is just how you say 'foreigner' in standard Japanese. The rude slang is jingai. And I also have the experience of people really appreciating it if you actually speak and read Japanese. Which makes sense, I can easily imagine it being a relief to find that you can just speak with someone normally instead of having to struggle with this absolutely bonkers weird language that one may be only vaguely familiar with. I can imagine that people in, say, the United States wouldn't be very happy if I went around and only spoke Dutch.
- hackama 1y agoGaikokujin is the correct way to say it. Gaijin is slang but I'm not sure how rude it would be considered.
- projectazorian 1y ago> And I also have the experience of people really appreciating it if you actually speak and read Japanese. 100%. You don't even need to know that much. Even if you have to switch to English, showing respect by demonstrating some effort to learn the local language and culture goes a long way.
- jacobgkau 1y ago> If I remember correctly, gaijin is just how you say 'foreigner' in standard Japanese. I think this depends on tone. It is a literal translation, but I don't think you have to call someone non-human for it to be rude. > I can imagine that people in, say, the United States wouldn't be very happy if I went around and only spoke Dutch. We do have a large amount of people (and an increasing number of businesses) who think it's fine to only speak Spanish.
- raffael_de 1y ago> “no foreigners” sign out front It's funny how everybody seems totally cool with this in Japan (or other Asian countries) but all hell breaks lose if somebody pulls that off in Europe. Actually this is just the news currently as a public swimming facility in Switzerland recently banned foreigners due to problems with visitors from France. The guests now seem super happy but it has been in he news already for a few days. In Germany you can even sue in such a case as we have anti-discrimination laws.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- jacobgkau 1y ago> A matcha place I like only lets you order from the real menu after you’ve unlocked enough visits from a punch card. What's the "fake menu" you have to order from before you unlock the real one? Or do you just have to swing by but aren't allowed to order anything? Compared to the others, it's hard to think of how this would necessarily help the business, aside from possibly disincentivizing people who are uncaring enough that their traffic would be bad but still care enough that they won't go there if they can't order something specific.
- jancsika 1y ago> Another specific $10 Michelin guide ramen restaurant only lets you order from a vending machine outside using a payment method you can’t access as a foreigner (one needs a physical JCB card or QUICPay - EPOS/Suica/Pasmo/Cash etc wouldn’t work). It must be quite the character who has the discipline and drive to get a Michelin star and takes pleasure in putting giant roadblocks in front of traveling foodies. Reminds me of this elderly couple who despised kids and ran a successful toy store.