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Tesla blows past stopped school bus and hits kid-sized dummies in FSD tests
- anArbitraryOne 1y agoHopefully the dummies were from the board of directors
- thaawyy33432434 1y ago[flagged]
- croes 1y agoNo you can’t. If FSD ignores a stop sign on a school bus the messenger isn’t important.
- dev_l1x_be 1y agoUnless the stop sign was facing the other direction and so on. There are many details that somebody has to get right to create a realistic scenario. If this test is real it does not look good on Tesla.
- gibdu 1y agoIt looks real on the video that is included in the linked article.
- abcd_f 1y agoKids jumping in front of cars is realistic in itself. Throw in a school bus and the car should've stopped, no ifs. And Tesla didn't even do an emergency break.
- croes 1y agoAnd that why reading further is important. It’s either fake or a massive issue.
- tverbeure 1y agoIf there’s a stop sign, the car should come to a full stop irrespective of the presence of children. That’s not a hard scenario to get right: all you need is a school bus with a deployed stop sign. Which is the case in this test.
- dev_l1x_be 1y agoThe issue is the context. A stop sign can be a in a shop's window as it was on that famous video where the tesla cmae to a full stop at a shop that had a stop sign.
- piva00 1y agoYou should keep reading and check the data, not just the source. If the data is real then it doesn't matter the bias, what a stupid brainless take...
- fabioborellini 1y ago[flagged]
- jofzar 1y agoBefore anyone says it's on the responsibility of the driver, that's only while there is still a driver. https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/1l84dkq/first_ever_tesla_model_y_robotaxi_with_noone_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/1l84dkq/first_...
- 2rsf 1y ago> "requires a fully attentive driver and will display a series of escalating warnings requiring driver response." I understand the reasoning behind it, but watching the video () of the test shows that the car did not warn the driver, and even if it did it was speeding too much leaving almost no time for a driver to respond Disclaimer- I have never used FSD before () https://dawnproject.com/the-dawn-project-and-tesla-takedowns-live-safety-tests-of-tesla-full-self-driving-in-austin/ https://dawnproject.com/the-dawn-project-and-tesla-takedowns...
- denniebee 1y ago> but watching the video () of the test shows that the car did not warn the driver The warnings occur when you look away or don't touch the steering wheel for a while. Not saying that Tesla is without error (it isn't), but just clarify what the warnings are for.
- hulitu 1y ago> The warnings occur when you look away So they are useless. My car warns me even if i don't look.
- reaperducer 1y agoSo they are useless. My car warns me even if i don't look. Heck, my car not only warns you, it slams on the brakes for you. Scared the heck out of me when it happened, but it saved me from hitting something I didn't realize was so close.
- jlbooker 1y ago> So they are useless. My car warns me even if i don't look. No, they serve a very specific purpose -- (attempting) to ensure the driver is at the controls and paying attention. Don't confuse the FSD attention "nag" warnings with collision warnings. The collision warnings will sound all the time, with and without FSD enabled and even if you're not looking at the road. If you don't start slowing down quickly, Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) will slam on the brakes and bring the car to a stop.
- ndsipa_pomu 1y agoIt seems crazy to me that the U.S. allows beta software to be used to control potentially lethal vehicles on public roads. (Not that I have much faith in human controlled lethal vehicles)
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- chrisco255 1y ago[flagged]
- q3k 1y agoAdvance what? Car dependence?
- chrisco255 1y agoAdvance robotics, automation and artificial intelligence as well as the state of the art in transportation. And yes, that obviously includes automobile transportation. What year are you living in? 1892? Do you realize how impossible modern society would be without cars?
- chris_wot 1y agoSurely you jest? The downside is it kills and maims people, including children. That’s not an acceptable trade off. Most countries have authorities who feel the same way. If you think killing and maiming is “advancing”, then you have a weird view of society.
- maleldil 1y agoI don't think they're joking. > If you think killing and maiming is “advancing”, then you have a weird view of society. Classic accelerationism. "Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make."
- sigmoid10 1y agoWhy on earth can't this be done by normal testing agencies? Why do things like "Tesla Takedown" have to participate in it? Even if the test was 100% legit, that connection to mere protest movements taints it immediately. It's like when oil companies publish critical research on climate change. Or Apple publishing research that AI is not that good and their own fumblings should not be seen as a bad omen. This kind of stuff could be factually completely correct and most rational people would still immediately dismiss it due to conflict of interest. All this will do is flame up fanboys who were already behind it and get ignored by people who weren't. If real goal is to divide society, this is how you do it.
- sitkack 1y agoYou mean the ones gutted by said owner of said company? Comparing "Tesla Takedown" with ExxonMobile is way too quick, you should have said Greenpeace. I'd say that TT has to do this, Is part of the point.
- Eisenstein 1y agoWhich testing agencies are doing these tests?
- sigmoid10 1y agoA whole lot actually: https://www.crashtest.org/car-crash-testing-agencies/ https://www.crashtest.org/car-crash-testing-agencies/
- sjsdaiuasgdia 1y agoThat's crash testing, which is about the safety of the people inside the vehicle. This test is about whether Tesla's self driving technology is safe for the people outside the vehicle.
- sigmoid10 1y ago>That's crash testing, which is about the safety of the people inside the vehicle. Crash testing is much more than that. Check out NCAP for example. They specifically include safety ratings for other, vulnerable road users (i.e. pedestrians). And the Model 3 currently sits at the top spot of their 2025 rankings in that category.
- locococo 1y agoIgnoring a stop sign, not even slowing down, thats a major safety flaw. I am wondering if there is a safety certification body for self driving technology. If not, one is needed because consumers can't be expected to be aware of all the limitations of the latest update they have installed. There must be basic safety standards these systems need to meet, a disclaimer can't be the solution here.
- antennafirepla 1y agoThere isn’t. We won’t regulate until there is public outcry over tens or hundreds of deaths.
- addandsubtract 1y agoOr you pay Trump more money than Elon.
- angusb 1y agoThis has done the rounds on other platforms. A couple of important points: - the failure here is that the car didn't stop for the bus on the other side of the road with the extended stop sign. (Obviously a kid running out from behind a car this late is fairly difficult for any human or self driving system to avoid) - the FSD version for the robotaxi service is private and wasn't the one used for this test. The testers here only have access to the older public version, which is supposed to be used with human supervision - the dawn project is a long-time Tesla FSD opponent that acts in bad faith - they are probably relying on false equivalence of FSD beta vs robotaxi FSD Nevertheless this is a very important test result for FSD supervised! But I don't like that the dawn project are framing this as evidence for why FSD robotaxi (a different version) should not be allowed without noting that they have tested a different version.
- bestouff 1y ago> Obviously a kid running out from behind a car this late is fairly difficult for any human or self driving system to avoid That's why you slow down when you pass a bus (or a huge american SUV).
- Sharlin 1y agoExactly. If your view is obstructed by something, anything, you slow down.
- sokoloff 1y agoIn this case, you stop for the bus that is displaying the flashing red lights. Every driver/car that obeys the law has absolutely no problem avoiding this collision with the child, which is why the bus has flashing lights and a stop sign.
- ethbr1 1y agoI'm honestly shocked that all versions of Tesla assisted/self-driving don't have a hardcoded stopped schoolbus exception to force slow driving. Worst case, you needlessly slow down around a roadside parked schoolbus. Best case, you save a kid's life.
- vachina 1y agoIsn’t FSD modeled after real drivers? In that case it could’ve learnt almost nobody ever fully stops at a stop sign, or in this case a bus stopped with a stop sign.
- sokoloff 1y agoBlowing the stop signals on a school bus is one of the few traffic laws that I see overwhelmingly support for strict adherence. People are way more accepting/understanding of drunk driving than passing school bus stop signals.
- cyberax 1y ago[flagged]
- jeroenhd 1y ago[flagged]
- otikik 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- potato3732842 1y agoThe real problem is that it didn't recognize and stop for the stop signs on the school bus. The child is basically an afterthought designed to appeal to the emotion of those whom logic fails. Even if no kids materialized the way a bus stop works (bus stops, then kids cross) means that detecting the kid really shouldn't be the primary trigger for stopping in this situation, the stop sign needs to be recognized and acted upon. Any ability to detect and stop for pedestrians is secondary to that.
- b3orn 1y agoI don't agree with this. Not hitting pedestrians should not just be an afterthought. Of course the car should recognise the stop sign, but there are cases in which stop signs are obstructed or missing, and in those cases pedestrians should still not be hit by a car.
- potato3732842 1y ago>I don't agree with this. Not hitting pedestrians should not just be an afterthought. You're disagreeing with something I didn't say. There's a difference between afterthought and the primary initiator of the stop in a situation like this. >Of course the car should recognize the stop sign, but there are cases in which stop signs are obstructed or missing, and in those cases pedestrians should still not be hit by a car. The surprise pedestrian test is one that any vehicle can be made to fail by sheer physics. Avoiding errant pedestrians like in the video will likely only come as a byproduct of better situational behavior by self driving vehicles. The overwhelming majority of drivers know to ignore the speed limit if the situation is rife with pedestrians or otherwise sus and are generally fine with missing/obstructed stop signs. I don't know what route self driving software will take to approximate such behavior but it likely will need to.
- ChoGGi 1y ago> The surprise pedestrian test is one that any vehicle can be made to fail by sheer physics. There's different degrees of failure as well, did the Tesla try to brake beforehand or apply brakes after hitting the doll?
- alexey-salmin 1y agoRegardless of one's stance on Tesla, it's sad to see this post flagged.
- ndsipa_pomu 1y agoI don't know why this is flagged unless it's just the Tesla/Musk association. I thought that self-driving vehicles are a popular topic on HN.
- lawn 1y agoIt's obviously because of Musk. Anything that paints him in a bad light is flagged ad nauseam.
- Molitor5901 1y agoI think the idea of self-driving needs to be strongly re-evaluated. There are countless videos of people in their Tesla's driving down the road.. from the back seat. FSD is simply not feasible right now, but it seems that when people let Tesla Take the Wheel, they are easily duped into assuming it will always work - when it doesn't. Until there are federal standards and rigorous testing of self-driving vehicle technologies they should not be installed, or advertised.
- kmacleod 1y agoJust for currency: I can't hop in the back of my 2025 Tesla while FSD drives. It has an interior camera now. It complains if I'm looking outside my window too long.
- AlecSchueler 1y agoWhy are Tesla related posts still being flagged? Mr Musk stepped out of his governmental role so criticism of his assets is no longer unavoidably political. My understanding was that criticism of Tesla was for the past few months seen as a political action and that many here don't want any inflammatory political discussions about the current US administration, but what's the current reason for flagging? This is surely tech/business news through and through.
- colpabar 1y agoThe comments become unreadable because everyone just argues over musk, so people just flag the whole thing.
- ndsipa_pomu 1y agoIronically, most of the mentions of Musk in this thread are due to the flagging.
- enslavedrobot 1y agoIf you follow Tesla for any length of time, you'll find so many disingenuous slanted articles about the company and the cars that you'll begin to wonder what the hell is going on. This article is about "testing" conducted by a guy who is trying to sell competing software products and has produced videos in the past that weren't replicable and were likely staged. They never release unedited footage or car diagnostic data, just a produced video presented with the intent of damaging Tesla's reputation and boosting their own sales. This happens all the time, from the New York Times' false claims that their review car ran out of charge, to the most recent Mark Rober video that cost the CEO of a lidar company his job. The video in this article requires independent validation it is not from a trusted source as it is produced by an extremely biased and financially motivated Tesla competitor.
- tzs 1y ago> This article is about "testing" conducted by a guy who is trying to sell competing software products and [...] What competing software products?
- nunez 1y agothis is a dan o'dowd production. he's spent significant capital trying to take down autopilot/fsd for years and has played dirty in the past.
- tzs 1y agoHow much of Tesla's FSD is learned from watching a lot of recordings of human drivers and how much of it is explicitly coded rules? I'd expect school bus stop signs to be challenging to learn because of how context dependent they are compared to regular stop signs. Some examples, drawn from the rules in my state (Washington) are below. These may be different in other states. With a regular stop sign you stop, then you go when it is safe to do so. When you stop for a school bus sign you are supposed to stay stopped as long as the sign is there. You don't go until the school bus retracts the sign. It is essentially like a red light rather than a stop sign. Whether or not a school bus stop sign applies to you depends on the direction you are traveling and on the structure of the roadway. It applies if either of the following are true: (1) you are traveling in the same direction as the bus, (2) it is a two lane roadway and the lanes are not separated by a physical barrier or median. Three or more lanes or a barrier or median and cars traveling opposite the bus don't have to stop.
- kmacleod 1y agoJust a data point, no argument: My 2025 Tesla stops for road work flaggers spinning their signs from "Slow" to "Stop". This issue here, correctly, is that it should come to a stop for 1) a bus flashing red, 2) with or without stop signs, 3) on an undivided road. Or, in our automated future, at least come to a crawl like FSD does now when entering a parking lot or pedestrian likely location.
- Mawr 1y ago> The tests were setup by anti-Tesla organizations :) Any good reason to believe these tests?
- josephcsible 1y agoIt's another Dan O'Dowd test. I'm now convinced that all of his tests are elaborate fakes, since he has a constant stream of super dangerous failures, but none of them are reproducible for anyone else.