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VPN providers in France ordered to block pirate sports IPTV
- FirmwareBurner 1y agoThanks, I was looking for a list of pirated sports broadcasts.
- kinow 1y agoI believe that's similar to what was done in Spain (for quite some time). https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2025/02/19/cloudflare-takes-legal-action-over-laligas-disproportionate-blocking-efforts/ https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2025/02/19/cloudflare-takes-... (Article from 2025, but last year it was already happening here)
- theturtletalks 1y agoLa Liga has such pull in Spain, they literally cripple the internet when games are going on so people can't pirate. This is because the VPN companies refused to comply.
- kinow 1y agoYeah, I first learnwd about this when I was browsing a tech site and it wasn't working. Then found someone on Twitter explaining it was due to a soccer match happening and the link had details about what La Liga was doing.
- retrodaredevil 1y agoWhen these VPN providers comply with these court orders, do they only implement blocking at the DNS level? Couldn't you still use these VPNs, but use a DNS provider that isn't censored?
- stuffoverflow 1y agoI assume it will be implemented on DNS level and yeah it is possible to use a different DNS.
- space_firmware 1y agoMost likely they will be forced to implement IP level firewall rules. IE: Traffic from French users is not allowed to go to <list of destination IPs>. This is one of the things the local ISPs already have to do.
- retrodaredevil 1y agoIt seems that the list of destination IPs would then be determined by whatever the domains listed resolve to (I assume). Since it's trivial to update DNS records, I wonder if they could lead to automated blocking of whatever IP those domains point to. With that in place, I wonder if that could ever be abused by these pirate sites. Imagine temporarily pointing your pirate site domain name at a valid IP address. When you do that, in theory ISPs (and now VPNs) would automatically block perfectly valid IPs. This would only happen if the owners of the pirate site domains actually try to do something malicious like that, but I know there are instances in the past of ISPs blocking cloudflare IPs (which is a separate issue, but the scenario I just made up reminds me of it).
- sidewndr46 1y agoCouldn't a VPN provider just start updating their DNS entries to respond with IPs of the French government around the time the block goes into place? So the ISPs would be forced to block access to the French government websites?
- AnthonyMouse 1y agoIf they wanted to troll better they'd point them at the websites of the official streaming service.
- sidewndr46 1y agoYeah, good point. That could work as well.
- numpad0 1y ago
- fifteen1506 1y agoPeople tend to assume workarounds will be found. They will -- no doubt. But in time, it will be as easy as installing Linux on a PS5. I just hope unverified operating systems won't be blocked on similar grounds.
- zosoworld 1y ago[dead]
- AnthonyMouse 1y agoYou're talking about two different things. One is, you want to install Linux on your PS5. A PS5 is basically just a PC, so what are you getting out of that when you could much more easily just install Linux on a normal PC? The incentive to find a way to do it is low. Meanwhile the PS5 is manufactured by a company that doesn't want you to do it, so they make it take effort to do it. The other is, people want to watch sports. Huge incentive. And they can use any device or service they want, not just one made by an adversarial company. Preventing this is basically having an effective censorship apparatus. The internet is an effective anti-censorship apparatus, because it connects everybody to everybody, and any single path through the network is enough to defeat censorship. "We'll just block this path they're using over here" is like installing a single fence post in the middle of the ocean. Or worse than that, because that single fence post causes collateral damage to random innocent people (e.g. blocking Cloudflare IPs) which then gives those innocent third parties the incentive to start developing better anti-censorship tech.
- mrshadowgoose 1y ago> You're talking about two different things. No, you've actually missed his point entirely. He is alluding to the fact that over the last decade or so, consumers have unwittingly slid down the slope of "not having true control over personal electronic devices". Iphones are already there, Android devices are a few years behind, as are most desktop PCs. Once there's critical mass, it would not be a stretch for ISPs to only deliver internet to endpoints that have a secure element that attests to the integrity of the internet-con ected device. This will of course be done under the guise of "fighting the spread of malware" and such. Piracy effectively ends at that point.
- space_firmware 1y agoReally great that European courts have created all the legal tools for authoritarian control of the internet in the future, to prevent the scourge of watching sports streaming without paying. Before this, it was much easier for ISPs / DNS providers / VPN providers to push back against governments wanting to censor the internet because the companies wouldn't have the tools installed to do this kind of blocking. The companies can then argue it is a burden to be forced to implement the tools. That is no longer the case in Europe, and the use of these tools is likely to expand outside the sports domain.
- pjc50 1y agoCopyright law has always been the most powerful force on the Internet. Which is why its collision with AI companies who pirate the whole Internet is very interesting.
- ainiriand 1y agoCollusion one might say.
- LunaSea 1y agoThere won't be any collision. Some companies will get some cash, the same way that Google paid to make Google Search the default search engine and the issue will die down.
- Imustaskforhelp 1y agowhen an unstoppable force meets an immovable object One must only imagine the outcome.
- Workaccount2 1y agoHow about making access to the games fairly priced and easily accessible? Streaming services have dramatically reduced piracy by making it way easier and way cheaper than ever before to consume content. I don't live in Europe, but if it is like US sports, you need to jump through hoops, pay through the nose, and have 14 different accounts to watch all the sports you want.
- yousif_123123 1y agoAlso just more accessibility in terms of being able to pay for it. As a viewer in Canada, there was no service whatsoever that was showing the Real Madrid vs Barcelona Spanish cup final a few months ago (Copa del Rey). I had to signup on a Spanish state tv website and use a VPN to access it for free. I would have gladly paid, but there was no opportunity. Content fragmentation and some sports rights not being bought and resold by anyone is also a big problem.
- Beijinger 1y ago"Content fragmentation and some sports rights not being bought and resold by anyone is also a big problem." I dont watch soccer. But if you want to watch soccer with a decent exposure (national league, Champions league etc.) in some EU countries you pay easily 100 Euros. And for Europe, this is a lot!
- rpdillon 1y agoI still believe Gabe Newell was right when he said that piracy is a service problem. This case doesn't seem to be any different.
- SpecialistK 1y agoIt's entirely true. I've canceled all of my streaming services because of the fragmentation and poor quality of the apps compared to my own Plex server. A few years ago I was happy to just pay $10 or $20 a month for nearly everything I wanted to watch.
- eloisant 1y agoThey will have to confirm it in a Swiss court if they want ProtonVPN to comply.
- sschueller 1y agoNow worries, the US will try again to force Switzerland to change its copyright laws so we can no longer legally download movies. /s All this to protect some industry that is falling appart because they can't produce decent films or music anymore. Everything is calculated for profit and creativity is out the door. Meanwhile the small actual talented creators aren't protected and ripped off by the same industry that wants all the protections.
- GHanku 1y ago[dead]
- protonfckff 1y ago[dead]
- mitkebes 1y agoDoes double VPN get around these kind of blocks? My understanding is the VPNs are expected to block the websites for french users, but it sounds like people could use VPN #1 to appear as a non-french user to VPN #2. VPN #2 can then allow the user to access the blocked websites, because the law only applies to french users.
- AnthonyMouse 1y agoIs there some reason they wouldn't just use a VPN that isn't in France and therefore isn't subject to laws in France? There have to be VPNs in some other jurisdiction.
- netsharc 1y agoI don't think e.g. NordVPN has any offices in France, but in theory the French authorities could tell French ISPs to block access to nordvpn.com (and all other Nord domains), though I'm not sure if the law applies to "secondary services" (instead of ordering ISPs to block domains that offer pirated sports streams, they'd be told to block domains that offer a service to circumvent the block). I believe Russia is doing it like this, trying to connect to a VPN provider's website will fail - interestingly NordVPN's app uses SSO to login, so blocking their main site would block the app's ability to log in.
- AnthonyMouse 1y agoEvery VPS provider is "a service to circumvent the block" because you can configure one as a VPN in around 30 seconds, and these are all just legitimate foreign companies many of which use Cloudflare or other shared IP services for their own websites. Are you going to block AWS and Azure and everything on them because US-region instances don't implement French website blocks? You've gone from blocking a couple of pirate sites to blocking >95% of the internet.
- netsharc 1y ago> Are you going to block AWS and Azure and everything on them because US-region instances don't implement French website blocks *French shrug* I guess their idea is to just make it obnoxious enough for casual users. At the moment a French resident wanting to watch these games without paying can just install VPN, connect to it, and watch the pirate streams. If the VPN providers are forced to comply, having a VPS is still a viable option, but for a casual user it's complicated enough that it might be enough to significantly reduce the number of pirate-stream watchers. Then again, because of Internet censorship in e.g. China, Iran and Russia, there are several services designed for a 1-click install of a personal VPN on a VPS...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- MentatOnMelange 1y agoI'm not a big sports fan but I know several people who are. I don't think there's another industry on earth whose customers are so willing and eager to spend money as fans watching their teams. And there's probably no industry on earth that tries as hard to prevent people from buying their services. The link between piracy and hypothetical profits has never been hard science, but when it comes to televized/streaming sports, a lot of this pirating seems to happen because people aren't allowed to watch it legally in their area. This is a self-inflicted problem.
- JohnMakin 1y agoHuge swaths of Los Angeles are completely unable to watch Dodgers games on TV because of the way the cable companies have packaged and delivered the content. You know, one of the most valuable sports franchises in the world, makes total sense.
- add-sub-mul-div 1y agoWhat do you mean, the cable companies block Dodger games from being on cable? That doesn't make sense.
- slashink 1y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_(broadcasting) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_(broadcasting)
- add-sub-mul-div 1y agoIf I'm understanding that right then the games are available to watch legally, it's a problem self-inflicted by the customers who choose not to get the service they're available on. Because it's not their preferred service.
- JohnMakin 1y agoAre you aware that in many areas of Los Angeles, and I'm sure other areas too, you often only have a single choice of cable/phone/internet provider? So no, you couldn't be further off.
- Disposal8433 1y agoI don't like watching sports on TV but it's hilarious that the courts said that you are forbidden to go to aliezstream.pro, and that Mullvad is not on the forbidden list. You MUST NOT combine both because it's very naugthy! Meanwhile Facebook stole all the books on the planet and it's not forbidden at all. It's very hard for me to take them seriously.
- Beijinger 1y agoPeople here are very fond of Mullhad VPN. I have mixed experiences with NordVPN, especially under Linux. If you look for something cheap, AirVPN hast a sale going on: https://airvpn.org/ https://airvpn.org/ It works okay for me or my current needs. https://expatcircle.com/cms/privacy/vpn-services/ https://expatcircle.com/cms/privacy/vpn-services/
- tim333 1y agoIf you want a free vpn, veepn is pretty good.
- Technetium 1y agoCan't ever trust a free VPN. If it's free, then you are the product being sold!
- tim333 1y agoI'm not sure I trust any VPNs but for the stuff I use if for I'm not really bothered - random US news sites saying not available in Europe, the cafe blocking The Onion because it's naughty etc.
- tryauuum 1y agoVPNs are cool but governments are always stronger. There's no good outcome if people don't fight for their internet freedom. In Russia the providers block OpenVPN and wireguard already. In China it's probably so much worse
- aunty_helen 1y agoInteresting isn't it, everyone heres favourite vpn doesn't make the list. The one vpn that seems to tick every box that you could want, suspiciously absent.
- Beijinger 1y agoWhich one would that be? Astrill. I think Astrill is definitely one of the best. The app is top-notch, tons of international servers, works even with GFC. But it is very expensive. mullvad vpn is double the price of AirVPN. And Astrill is double the price of mullvad vpn.
- notorandit 1y agoVPN customers should think twice before subscribing that kind of services. VPN providers are bound to their homeland laws and can be ordered at anytime by law enforcement agencies or by judge rulings to provide whatever is needed, eavesdropping included. Abroad VPN providers can be blocked with the same means. So, unless you need VPN for lawful activities, you are just trying to fool around the law.