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Show HN: Air Lab – A portable and open air quality measuring device

497 points by 256dpi 1y ago

Hi HN! I’ve been working on an air quality measuring device called Air Lab for the past three years. It measures CO2, temperature, relative humidity, air pollutants (VOC, NOx), and atmospheric pressure. You can log and analyze the data directly on the device — no smartphone or laptop needed. To better show what the device can do and how it feels like, I spent the past week developing a web-based simulator using Emscripten. It runs the stock firmware with most features available except for networking. Check it out and let me know what you think! The firmware will be open-source and available once the first batch of devices ships. We’re currently finishing up our crowdfunding campaign on CrowdSupply. If you want to get one, now is the time to support the project: https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab We started building the Air Lab because most air quality measuring devices we found were locked-down or hard to tinker with. Air quality is a growing concern, and we’re hoping a more open, playful approach can help make the topic more accessible. It is important to us that there is a low bar for customizing and extending the Air Lab. Until we ship, we plan to create rich documentation and further tools, like the simulator, to make this as easy as possible. The technical: The device is powered by the popular ESP32S3 microcontroller, equipped with a precise CO2, temperature, and relative humidity sensor (SCD41) as well as a VOC/NOx (SGP41) and atmospheric pressure sensor (LPS22). The support circuitry provides built-in battery charging, a real-time clock, an RGB LED, buzzer, an accelerometer, and capacitive touch, which makes Air Lab a powerful stand-alone device. The firmware itself is written on top of esp-idf and uses LVGL for rendering the UI. If you seek more high-level info, here are also some videos covering the project: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBltdMLjUyg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBltdMLjUyg (Introduction) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tzjVYPm_MU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tzjVYPm_MU (Product Update) Would love your feedback — on the device, hardware choices, potential use cases, or anything else worth improving. If you want to get notified on project updates, subscribe on Crowd Supply. Happy to answer any questions!

benbojangles 1y ago
https://github.com/benb0jangles/Air_Quality_monitor https://github.com/benb0jangles/Air_Quality_monitor
- benbojangles 1y ago
  I think this one has a BOM of about $50
  - benbojangles 1y ago
    and it displays github pages as well as the oled
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miiiiiike 1y ago
You made the simulator in a week..? Am I bad at what I do?
- 256dpi 1y ago
  I have written a bit about the process here: https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/updates/firmware-simulator https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/upda.... TLDR: It compiles the stock firmware to WASM using emscripten. Thus, I did not build all of it in one week and rather just the web app around the firmware.
touwer 1y ago
Cool project! And much needed
silversmith 1y ago
I use Aranet devices myself - https://www.aranet.com/en/home/products/aranet4-home https://www.aranet.com/en/home/products/aranet4-home What you could take from them is how prominent the current measurement is on the screen. I can glance over from a distance and instantly see the number. The colours get inverted if it goes into the red zone, so I can glance at it from across the room without my glasses and still see whether it's bad or not. From what the simulator shows, with your device I'd need to lean in pretty close to understand what's going on. And blinking light indicators are tricky - you can easily catch it between blinks and look away content that everything's alright.
- 256dpi 1y ago
  Yes, that's something I want to improve. ATM, if you rotate the (real) device, it will show a vertical layout in stand-by mode that uses a large font to display the values. I still need to add this to the simulator. A horizontal layout with bigger fonts is on the to-do list!
Y_Y 1y ago
https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab $230 ain't cheap! Also, I parsed this as: (open air) (quality measuring device)
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zevon 1y ago
Nice work! Are you aware of https://sensor.community https://sensor.community ? They have sensor designs as well but I mainly mention them because they have open infrastructure to aggregate sensor data on a public map.
poisonborz 1y ago
Very cool project, we need more competition in this space - other option is like Air Gradient One, also open source. Famous HN "but": I find it baffling that by default we are shown this cutesy animation, that gets boring real fast, and actual measurement values in tiny font in the corner, which must be manually switched to for each sensor? Why not just show all sensor values in large font?
- rokkamokka 1y ago
  Yeah the display design seems to put the emphasis on fun rather than functional
- pcl 1y ago
  I guess this is one of the cool things about an open stack, right?
- Timshel 1y ago
  There is a screen saver which display time/temp/ppm/rh. And: > The official firmware for the Air Lab will be open-source and available on GitHub. Extend it and customize it to your needs.
- 256dpi 1y ago
  Thanks! As other commenters suggested, there is a screen saver (after 30s idle) that shows all values (horizontal and vertical) at a glance. The layout is not final yet and something I want to improve (make bigger). You can try it in the simulator.
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stared 1y ago
I like your design, especially the e-ink display! I am curious, what are pros and cons (connectivity, measurement quality) with Qingping Air Monitor 2 (https://qingping.co/air-monitor-2/ https://qingping.co/air-monitor-2/)?
hereme888 1y ago
If only 1% of products were as honest in their presentation. Your page has the actual device, and users can "use" it just the way it works. No bikini models, no pretentious fancy screenshot, no dark patterns. The product speaks for itself. The thoughtfulness behind the website's UI speaks of who's behind it.
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- ninetyninenine 1y ago
  Whats wrong with bikini models? I want the product and the bikini model.
bflesch 1y ago
Nice device, but too playful for my needs. I'm still looking for a good sensor like Aranet but without the display and the vendor lock-in. Maybe if display is removed from this one it would work?
- yreg 1y ago
  You can cover it with some tape. :)
  - bflesch 1y ago
    ;) the thought was more about reduce energy consumption and cost
    - silversmith 1y ago
      Aranet runs on e-ink, with silly low energy refresh rate. The two (or was it one? ages since I last checked) AA batteries last me well over two years. As for vendor lock-in, the basic readings get broadcast over bluetooth advertisments, and you can establish connection to get all the data. I have couple of them working nicely with HomeAssistant. The cost, yeah, I'd love it to be cheaper.
- aurelwu 1y ago
  you can get a ESP32 and a CO2-Sensor, easiest would be to use a development kit like a m5-stickC and the Sensirion SCD41 and with some small arduino scripts you are good to go to send the data via WLAN or BLE for something like 70€. Can be even cheaper if you don't use a development kit but it makes things a lot easier and the small display helps with debugging.
wuming2 1y ago
To be honest, if you have to look at a display to be alerted about bad air quality it’s likely either you know about it already or you are needlessly obsessing. Either way it is the reason I built a service to remote push notify myself. Peace if mind.
- samuraijack 1y ago
  Or you are just used to poor air quality so you don’t even notice it anymore.
  - hazn 1y ago
    and the fact that air quality usually gradually worsens over time. i think it's easier to tell bad air quality when you move in between rooms/spaces. but i agree with the op that 'looking' at a display already subconsciously tells you something about the air quality and your relation to it. my air quality sensor [0] has a green/orange/red light system though, so i can sometimes just tell that the air quality is bad by a red led flaring up in the corner of my eye. [0] https://www.tfa-dostmann.de/en/product/co2-monitor-airco2ntrol-mini-31-5006/ https://www.tfa-dostmann.de/en/product/co2-monitor-airco2ntr... previous discussion on the above meter: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22764603 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22764603
    - imp0cat 1y ago
      The AIRCO2NTROL MINI is a great little device to have in a bedroom or living room, the green/orange/led lights are easy to understand (think traffic lights) even by non-technical people.
  - wuming2 1y ago
    I was referring to looking at a display to be timely informed about an event, crossing the threshold out of acceptable air quality, that can occur at any time of the day. If air quality is consistently bad you don’t need a measuring device but a good air filter. If instead it is not then relying on constantly looking at it is a poor solution.
xvfLJfx9 1y ago
I wish it would have support for Zigbee so I can pair it with other open data aggregation systems like Home Assistant. AirGradient, another cool air quality monitor, for example, does not have this.
- patrickk 1y ago
  They integrate with Home Assistant via MQTT: https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/updates/a-deep-dive-into-integrating-air-lab-with-home-assistant https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/upda...
- scottlamb 1y ago
  The trick with the AirGradient is to use one of the ESPHome configs available [1] instead of their crappy Arduino sketch. Then it integrates with Home Assistant perfectly. [1] e.g. https://github.com/MallocArray/airgradient_esphome https://github.com/MallocArray/airgradient_esphome
- westurner 1y ago
  Matter protocol support would also be a useful feature. Potential integration: Run HVAC fans and/or an attic fan and/or a crawlspace fan if indoor AQI is worse than outdoor AQI This says that Air Quality Sensor support was added to matter protocol in 2023: https://csa-iot.org/newsroom/matter-1-2-arrives-with-nine-new-device-types-improvements-across-the-board/ https://csa-iot.org/newsroom/matter-1-2-arrives-with-nine-ne... : > Air Quality Sensors – Supported sensors can capture and report on: PM1, PM2.5, PM10, CO2, NO2, VOC, CO, Ozone, Radon, and Formaldehyde. Furthermore, the addition of the Air Quality Cluster enables Matter devices to provide AQI information based on the device’s location /? matter protocol Air Quality Cluster: https://www.google.com/search?q=matter+protocol+Air+Quality+Cluster https://www.google.com/search?q=matter+protocol+Air+Quality+...
  - 256dpi 1y ago
    We'll definitely look into supporting Matter in the future, as it would allow integration with the most common home automation platforms/apps out there.
net01 1y ago
I find the specs a bit expensive for what it is, but the software looks really good. Specs: - Microcontroller: ESP32-S3 - Air sensors: SCD41, SGP41 & LPS22 - Display: 296×128 e-paper - Battery: 1500 mAh Li-Po - Anodized aluminium enclosure - Real-time clock - Accelerometer - Wi-Fi & Bluetooth LE - ~7.5 days of battery life
- 256dpi 1y ago
  That's correct if you just look at the component costs. Unfortunately, to make these in a small series, a lot of other costs come together. If we could, we would offer it a better price. Maybe some time soon!
- snickmy 1y ago
  I really feel for the creators here. I was thinking exactly like that before trying to build an electronic device myself. Later on I talked to people working in the hardware industry for small production scale, and pretty much told me that a fair pricing is usually 5x to 7x the total BOM (bill of materials). After going through that experience myself, I couldn't agree more. This device in particular has some extra well thought design and style which might be worth a premium (on top of that 5x/7x multiplier).
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whiplash451 1y ago
Very cool product. Am wondering if there exists an equivalent of this for physical activity, i.e. device you could attach to your physical keys and would measure footsteps/biking/running (while doing the switching automatically)?
- vallode 1y ago
  Certain smartwatches offer a "pebble mode" feature like the Xiaomi band 9, you can get a keyring case for it and just attach it like that. I don't think it has automatic switching between exercise modes just tracking for steps etc.
  - whiplash451 1y ago
    Thanks. I don't want a smartwatch (I have a great "dumb" watch that I love). I'm rather looking for a device like this Air Lab but for physical activity.
red523 1y ago
Good idea, but not cheap compared to Aranet4 ~200USD. Not sure ESP32 is a good choice for power consumption.
- benchly 1y ago
  What's a good alternative? My understanding (which may be wrong, so I am open to being corrected) is that the greatest power consumption you'll see from ESP32 is connecting to a network and uploading data, the idea being less connections mean less power consumption. The ePaper display should be nice and low power consumption, too. I'd expect a common pocket battery bank to power it for a few weeks if one were using it to gather data for later use. Again, happy to be corrected. It's really fortunate that this post showed up on HN since just last month, I ordered a few components to start making my own air quality sensors, the goal being to create some units that I can strap on my car and gather data while I travel for work (personal curiosity, mostly). There's tons of great projects and info being referenced in this thread.
  - 256dpi 1y ago
    OP is probably comparing the ESP32 to a NRF chip. These offer Bluetooth connectivity while running from a coin cell with <1mA power consumption, compared to the ESP32s ~50mA when not sleeping. Luckily, we can stay in deep sleep most of the time to save battery. We mainly went with an ESP32 because of the great SDK and software support through Arduino etc. That way, people that want to customize the firmware or build their own can get started quickly.
    - benchly 1y ago
      It's a sensible choice. From a newbie perspective, it's certainly easy to work with and there's no shortage of documentation when I'm trying to figure something out. I'd pull the trigger on one of your devices right now because of that if funds weren't currently an issue (sadly, I am between jobs, atm).
      - 256dpi 1y ago
Timot05 1y ago
Nice kickstand!
- 256dpi 1y ago
  Thanks! Our engineer invested a lot of time to get the feeling just perfect! :-)
homebrewer 1y ago
JFYI: a (hopefully much) cheaper stripped down version of the device would be useful. Air quality is the worst in poorer regions of the world, and as someone who suffers from horrible air pollution, but who's also living a relatively cushy life (by our standards), I can assure you that $200+ for an air quality sensor puts it into the "unobtainable" bucket. Add shipping and it probably gets closer to $300, which is roughly equal to the median monthly salary over here. Your NO₂ measurements make it a really interesting device compared to most alternatives that only measure particulate matter. All gas sensors that are theoretically possible for me to obtain cost hundreds of dollars by themselves.
- crtified 1y ago
  I'll preface this by saying that product design and manufacturing and public-proofing is long, hard work, and the retail price of this product is likely to be well justified for all kinds of reasons. That said, looking at the main active components that are listed, we have - ESP32S3 IC : $4 retail, SCD41 Sensor : $21 retail, SGP41 Sensor : $8 retail, LPS22 Sensor : $4 retail Which is very hopeful, in the sense that some key functionality of this kind of device could potentially be open sourced and pared back to a minimal cost where hobbyists could build versions suitable for the economics of developing countries.
  - iamflimflam1 1y ago
    Tariffs are having a big impact on people outside the US using CrowdSupply. CrowdSupply ships everything via Mouser US - so if you are outside of the US you need to export your products to Mouser. That hits you with tariffs and the tariffs are charged on what CrowdSupply are paying you for the products. If the majority of your product is manufactured in China (e.g. PCBA) then it's very likely that the COO for your product will be China. So, you will get stung with whatever crazy tariffs are currently in place.
    - 256dpi 1y ago
      This has been very tricky to navigate for us. We almost launched the campaign right before the Tariffs got announced. Luckily, we had the opportunity to wait it out. While CrowdSupply is an awesome platform, and I would use it again, the requirement to export everything to the US is a problem in such situations.
Dkumpikolo 1y ago
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aurelwu 1y ago
Hi, I developed indoorco2map.com which is a an app-supported crowd-data-science project where users can submit CO2-Data they measure when going shopping or to restaurants or wherever using a simple-to-use App. I'd like to support your Device - is there documentation available about how to read the Data via BLE? All I need is the CO2-History (either with timestamp, or just ordered + information about update interval). MIT Licensed: https://github.com/AurelWu/IndoorCO2AppMAUI https://github.com/AurelWu/IndoorCO2AppMAUI PS: do you use the air pressure to correct the CO2-readings like the Aranet4 does or would users need to manually recalibrate when the move to higher/lower elevations compared to when the sensor was calibrated?
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- 256dpi 1y ago
  We love indoorco2map.com and would be happy to ensure that data from the Air Lab can be exported to it! We plan to expose simple BLE characteristics for all sensor values (similar to the Aranet). On top of that, we already have an API that would allow reading the full history from temporary storage (timestamped). Keep an eye on our website; we'll soon add a manual section with more details on that. We have not integrated compensation of CO2-readings yet, but will certainly look into it before shipping the device.
flawn 1y ago
love this!
Isn0gud 1y ago
The ikea vindstyrka sensor is 50$, how is this 4x the price?
- rspoerri 1y ago
  Any co2 measuring device costs at least 70$. All devices i know with internet connectivity costs 150$+.
  - djrj477dhsnv 1y ago
    My Qingping Monitor Lite with SenseAir S8 co2 sensor, pm2.5, wifi, and oled display seems to be accurate enough and was only $45.
- 256dpi 1y ago
  We added many components that are not strictly needed to measure air quality but make the device an interesting platform for custom projects. Also, the enclosure is more premium, being made from aluminum. Finally, IKEA can leverage economy of scale and probably gets a much better price on most parts.
pppone 1y ago
A really nice way of experiencing a hardware product! I wish we had done the same for our air quality monitor when we were operational. [0] [0] - https://www.open-seneca.org/ https://www.open-seneca.org/
finnjohnsen2 1y ago
Semi off-topic. Anyone know why radon sensor modules are absent as modules one can buy and use in your own arduino-thing?
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voxlax 1y ago
You can get the same measurements and even more from AirGradient. Those are a bit cheaper and much more solid devices. Not so focused on design, but rather on accuracy: https://www.airgradient.com https://www.airgradient.com I´m not affiliated with them in any way, but I´m using their indoor and outdoor sensors since a few years by now, and I am very satisifed. Btw. their HW is opensource and you can choose between their SW or can flash anything else. The measurement data of my outdoor sensor is publicly available: https://explore.openaq.org/?location=2070168#13.21/48.22244/16.37334 https://explore.openaq.org/?location=2070168#13.21/48.22244/...
- esskay 1y ago
  Another vote for AirGradient's devices which are great IMO, got a few of them now and they've been very easy to integrate into my setup.
- badmorale 1y ago
  AirGradient is fantastic!
- technotarek 1y ago
  A sincere question : In a home environment, what information do devices like this provide that you regularly act upon and how? Can you give some examples? I’m trying to understand the use case given I already have a thermostat with humidity readings and look at the weather for air quality. Is it more than after cooking, the PPMs are high, open the window or turn on the vent fan (which I do out of habit anyways)? I self imposed a rule when I went through the process of having a child — to avoid (negative) information that I couldn’t or wouldn’t really act upon (e.g. learning about genetic markers/hints that couldn’t be prevented and wouldn’t make me think about extreme measures, such as blindness). For me it’s an issue of anxiety management.
  - technotarek 1y ago
    Not a fan of my own medical example there. If I knew my kid was going to be blind, there are lots of actions I would take: Educating myself, potentially preparing the home environment etc.
tremarley 1y ago
The website is broken
- 256dpi 1y ago
  Sorry to hear that! I'm happy to investigate if you let me know your browser/platform.
ronakjain90 1y ago
Your product looks so good, congratulations on your launch. Have you considered making a standalone devices with just sensors (think data only mode) and letting the users hook up their data on any eink dashboard of their choice. Below are some of the example of community created Air Quality dashboards[1] installable on any e-ink hardware[2]. [1] https://usetrmnl.com/recipes/62233 https://usetrmnl.com/recipes/62233, https://usetrmnl.com/recipes/23306 https://usetrmnl.com/recipes/23306 [2] https://github.com/usetrmnl/firmware/ https://github.com/usetrmnl/firmware/ Disclosure: I work at TRMNL.
- 256dpi 1y ago
  Thank you! Yes, that's something we'd like to prototype soon for supporting multiple rooms/locations. Integrating with other dashboards including TRMNL would be awesome too.
  - InsOp 1y ago
    like ZigBee compatible with home assistant
Siecje 1y ago
Any plans for power over Ethernet?
- jonah 1y ago
  There exist little adapters that take in PoE and output power (and potentially networking) over USB-C. Something like that could be employed to power this.
mozvalentin 1y ago
I really appreciate having an open source solution. I hope the production costs can come down over time. I currently have an Airthings Wave and a Plus - which are roughtly in the same price range but additionally measure Radon.
- pooloo 1y ago
  Yeah I am in the same boat, I have a lot of airthings products primarily for the radon measurements, which is at the same price point.
Eduard 1y ago
I would find it more natural when the positions of the AB buttons area was switched with the D-pad area.
- 256dpi 1y ago
  Good catch! Unfortunately, we realized a bit too late that we flipped the standard console layout (e.g. Game Boy). Luckily, most people that notice get used to it quickly.
neves 1y ago
I'm always lost when it comes to air quality meters. There are so many specifications, and in general, they're quite expensive—especially for people in third-world countries. Does anyone know a good air quality monitor that costs less than 100 dollars? Preferably one that can be purchased on a Chinese website like AliExpress.
- xvilka 1y ago
  Devices below 100 usually have bad sensors so they do some black magic and a lot of approximation in the firmware/software. Good air quality meter with good sensors simply cannot cost this low, even in the economy of scale.
- Rebelgecko 1y ago
  If you're willing to DIY a bit you can put together an Airgradient for under $100. Especially if you're making multiple
tigrezno 1y ago
I don't get this. My current air purifier (philips) costs like 150€, includes an air quality sensor and the app reports shows graphs with PPM, VOC, whatever. Why would I pay double for a device that doesn't even filter the air of my room?
- snickmy 1y ago
  different use cases. I don't expect you to go around with your air purifier attached to your neck :)
  - bravesoul2 1y ago
    Sure but same tech. It'll boil down to economies of scale. Also indoor AQ where you spend most of your time is more useful to know. Dust and CO2 are something you can actively reduce.
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jvanderbot 1y ago
I get that particle counters are a bit bulky, but with wildfires all over USA at the moment, that'd be a big draw. It's $30 more.
- 256dpi 1y ago
  You can easily hook a PM sensor like the SEN54 to the extension port at the back. We're also thinking about offering an "upgrade kit" to match the design.
savrajsingh 1y ago
No pm2.5?
- 256dpi 1y ago
  Not yet. Unfortunately, these are usually quite big, and we didn't want to sacrifice the portability. But you can add a PM sensor through the extension port. We'll document this in our upcoming manual. A fellow Crowd Supply project, Polverine[1], uses a new Bosch sensor that is very small. If we do a refresh of the device, we'll certainly look into adding it. [1]: https://www.crowdsupply.com/blackiot/polverine https://www.crowdsupply.com/blackiot/polverine
  - haarolean 1y ago
    IMO, PM2.5 sensors are essential nowadays. What's the point of a device without one? Especially for $229. I can get a chinese thingy like qingping for ~$115 with PM2.5 and other stuff.
deanc 1y ago
Can someone please tell me why it's so expensive to measure the quality of air? Literally all of these devices (ones that actually give accurate measurements) cost a fortune. What makes the sensors so expensive?
- est 1y ago
  I guess it's the CO₂ sensor
  - deanc 1y ago
    Yes, but why are CO2 sensors so expensive?
    - ted_dunning 1y ago
      Check out how they work. One kind emits light through a folded optic path through the test gas and detects the difference in the absorption between wavelengths of light are used. The difference in absorption is minute so the optical path needs to be as long as possible which makes it hard to make the detector small. The other kind detects the sound emitted when a precise frequency of IR is transmitted through a gas. If the frequency of the light is just right, it will be absorbed by the CO2 causing it to heat up ever so slightly which causes a tiny bit of sound. Both of these are incredibly ticklish devices to design and build in mass. That you can get these for as low as about $20 in quantity is actually mind bogglingly cheap.
clvx 1y ago
Ok, This is interesting. I need something alike that can measure whatever marijuana grow facilities generate. A neighbor lives in disbelief their facility doesn't produce any smell but neighbors in a mile radius disagree with it. He is willing to set up measurements to reduce any impact but I don't have a way to collect real data beyond it's smelling. I always depends on where the wind is blowing but it's constant.
- hedora 1y ago
  Voc might work. It covers most things you can smell. If it’s a sulfur smell, it’s probably sewer gas from something decomposing or fertilizer (or an unrelated sewer problem near the facility), and a natural gas / propane detector should work. They also pick up methane, which is odorless, but is probably being produced by the same source.
- dbacar 1y ago
  You sound like you are asking for a friend :).
ceva 1y ago
Well there is free open source version developed from Serbia https://klimerko.org/ https://klimerko.org/
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benob 1y ago
It looks pretty and featureful, but I'd love a cheaper version, maybe without a display.
JKCalhoun 1y ago
See the lanyard thing going on ... thinking a watch config would be preferable (if it could be scaled down to that size).
Eextra953 1y ago
Cool product! I come from a measurement/calibration background, so I'm curious about the accuracy of your system. Have you tested this against lab equipment, or do you have plans to specify accuracy with proper tolerance intervals? What about measurement uncertainty and unit-to-unit variability? I know this is consumer hardware, so I dont expect a full blown evaluation but have you characterized expected performance?
- 256dpi 1y ago
  Thanks and good question! We have planned to do a proper lab test soon. The Swiss Federal Office for the Environment is a project partner and has such equipment. During the design phase, we used a software to model the air flow and particle movements through the enclosure. Until then, we can only state what is already specified in the SCD41 and SGP41 datasheets.
bethekidyouwant 1y ago
I have these (inexpensive) sensors (except the barometer) hooked up to esp32’s in my home. After reviewing several months of the graph output I don’t have any confidence in the voc or co2 sensors accuracy. Additionally there is no good way to calibrate them outside of a lab. Imo the technology on the more interesting cheap sensors is not there yet.
- 256dpi 1y ago
  I'm curious, what's the range/variability you're seeing?
- vosper 1y ago
  For the AirGradient device I think the way to calibrate CO2 is to expose it to fresh air at some point, which has a known CO2 level. It’s supposed to auto-calibrate. But if you don’t do that regularly then the readings will drift (without anyway of telling they’re drifting). You also can’t tell when the sensor has calibrated. IIUC VOC is way more complicated and hard to both calibrate and interpret. I’m not sure I have any faith in that value. I do think a lot of people are going to be mislead by these monitors, the sensors and devices come with a bunch of caveats that aren’t clearly communicated. For me what people should most care about is particulates, and at least as far as I know those sensors don’t come with the calibration issues of CO2 and VOC. That’s the sensor my AirGradient is set to alert on.
  - hedora 1y ago
    I was worried our sensors had that autocalibration mode. Our house has new concrete floors. They alternate between absorbing + outgassing CO2 (depending on room temperature), so sometimes our living room reads below 400 ppm. From what I can tell, the sensors haven't drifted, so they're not using the "below 420 ppm => recalibrate" heuristic.
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  - Aspos 1y ago
ge96 1y ago
the clickable image is a nice touch (buttons)
orion138 1y ago
What effect, if any, did you notice on sensor outputs from heat generated by other system components? e.g., constant temperature offset after reaching thermal steady state
- 256dpi 1y ago
  We have not tested this properly (see my other comment on lab testing), but so far we have observed no effect during normal operation and only saw a slight increase when charging the device (~1°). We took great care to move the sensors far away from power management. Luckily, the display cutout also helps here. You can find more infos here: https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/updates/hardware-details https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/upda...
pkdpic 1y ago
I love it and I want to buy one for every on of my family and friends. Just curious though does it cover finer particles and if not just curious why? Same question I guess for a general AQI rating. The one random (probably poor quality) portable AQI monitor I have covers different levels of fine particles and that seems really useful during fire season when its bad (in Nor Cal). But of course I'm not super knowledgeable about any of this. Anyway fantastic project, I absolutely love it.
- colechristensen 1y ago
  It does not have any particle detection
- 256dpi 1y ago
  As the sibling commenter pointed out correctly, there is no PM sensor built-in at the moment. However, we added an extension port at the back that allows connecting PM sensors like the SEN54. We also plan to support this natively in the firmware and perhaps even offer a kit sometime soon that matches the design language.
raudette 1y ago
General feedback: - I want something like this - I have built crude air quality monitors (sensors + micro-controller) but would prefer something I can buy - I love the openness - I love the form factor. I would like the ability to carry it around, the loop on this is great. eg: what is this meeting room like after 45 minutes? - Would like to see PM2.5 - the AirGradient is probably closer to what I want
- Havoc 1y ago
  PM2.5 is quite challenging to miniaturize for a mobile & compact form factor like this - you need a fan of some sort.
  - formerly_proven 1y ago
    Not necessarily: https://www.bosch-sensortec.com/products/environmental-sensors/particulate-matter-sensor/bmv080/ https://www.bosch-sensortec.com/products/environmental-senso... (fits in an USB key: https://www2.purpleair.com/products/purpleair-pixel https://www2.purpleair.com/products/purpleair-pixel)
    - Havoc 1y ago
      Oh that's fun. Been meaning to get PM2.5 for my place but the one I've got has a whiny fan Thanks for linking
knowitnone 1y ago
IMHO, since laptops and smartphones are so ubiquitous, it would have been better and cheaper to build just the sensor with bluetooth connectivity. I guess your market is different. I know my local library has something similar mounted on their walls.
Havoc 1y ago
Looks slick & portability is a neat trick, but that's going to be a tough sell at the price. Anyone with ability to customize & extend this would know that a ESP and SCD41 sensor are around 10 bucks each.
SeasonalEnnui 1y ago
I really like this. Did you investigate the options regarding CO2 sensors? I'm interested to know if you compared SCD30 to SCD41? The dual-channel design of SCD30 is supposed to offer lower drift and longer stability compared to the SCD41 (which claims to need taking outside once a week). That's the deal on paper, I'm wondering if you got any real data on this.
- 256dpi 1y ago
  Thanks! The SCD30 is a great sensor and obviously better than the SCD41. But we did not look at it in more detail, as we chose the SCD41 primarily for its small size. We believe that an accuracy of +/-50ppm is enough for a device like the Air Lab. Also, we'll actively look into reminding the user to take the device outside if automatic calibration is used. On top of that, it's our plan to either factory calibrate the devices and/or offer manual recalibration that should extend beyond the 1-week interval with automatic calibration.
  - tyeth 1y ago
    Maybe contact Sensirion about the STCC4, better form factor and due for release any moment...They have a contact sales option and are usually helpful. https://sensirion.com/products/catalog/STCC4 https://sensirion.com/products/catalog/STCC4 (Not sure but thought maybe used in the SEN66 which is available now and covers most things including PPM/CO2/VOC/NOx)
ajolly 1y ago
It's cute but unless you really need the size+ onboard screen, I don't see the big win of this over an Apollo air-1. (Esphome based, easy HA integration. Or an inkbird - I paid $99 for one with co2, HCHO, AQI, PM2.5 PM10, TVOC, Temperature, Humidity. It has a display and integrates with home assistant. Built in battery if you want to move it around. I own both of those. A DIY it but I haven't seen a good reason to. The big advantage of the ESP home devices out there is they are extremely easy to tinker with if you want to change anything
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Henadz 1y ago
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snvzz 1y ago
>ESP32S3 Unfortunately predates the switch to RISC-V.
Dusksky 1y ago
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Fnoord 1y ago
I made my own with Pimoroni (with a small OLED), a Raspberry Pi Zero, a UPS Lite, and a PoE hat (I could switch between these options). Then I updated the OS, Python 2 to 3 and RIP. They sell a Pico version nowadays. It cost me approx 100 EUR with all mats, during Covid pandemic. It worked nice in Prometheus, Grafana, HomeAssistent. Put one outside, too. After I bricked it I bought two Switchbot Co2 meter (these got e-paper, though I got those also lying around), for 60 EUR each, used some nanotape to attach these on a spot I like. I use one upstairs and one downstairs. If we sleep with all 4 in same bed, during cooking, or bday parties these go high. Otherwise not. Is it needed? Not really. You physically notice the air quality and take action. Except when you don't. My mother in law doesn't notice her fumes in house (she lost some smelling ability) so I bought her a Switchbot, too. There's no way I would pay more than 200 EUR for such a device. Not even 100 EUR. I get it, you're from Switzerland with a high cost of living, but that isn't my problem.
- sizzle 1y ago
  How have I never heard of Switchbot, their products look really great and I’m desperately trying to get off the Alexa ecosystem for native apple HomeKit. Do you still recommend them or is there a better HomeKit enabled brand you prefer?
  - Fnoord 1y ago
    Cannot comment on that as I don't use HomeKit.
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tgtweak 1y ago
The price seems very high for the components. The top airthings with pm2.5, pm1, CO2, radon, humidity, temperature, pressure and full WiFi + cloud connectivity is $250.
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mihaaly 1y ago
The simulation is an excellent idea! Very good it can be explored so easily, excellent. I find the usage of it suboptimal. Showing the main information in small and tucked away in corners while the rest of the screen is filled with short time amusing animation or nothing. Things happen automatically after a short period of time, and so far I wasn't able to get to the dasboard (tiny characters, not using the full screen) on will, only by waiting. Not quickly obvious what and when the buttons will do (indication sometime sqeezed into tiny parts of the animation), needs quite a bit of practice, and so can be forgotten later, needing relearn. It is nice having a plethora of funcionality but the core functionality suffers a bit in my view. This is just personal observation. A device like this is a very useful one, but not like this. It is demanding to use for the few most important things.
burnt-resistor 1y ago
Needs a particle sensor like a PlanTower PMS5003 or it's not really worth the effort. I made an Arduino + PMS5003 + LCD for use during the NorCal fires of 2020 when the readings were 900+ μg/m^3. At that time, I was wearing a full-face P100 respirator outdoors because the visibility was down to about 100' / 30m. That was about the same time I bought an overpriced BlueAir 680i because Consumer Reports rated the similar BlueAir 605 as the best air purifier they ever tested. (Unfortunately, that whole line they used cheap bearings in the fan motors that fail after a few years without replacement parts that you have to disassemble the motors and swap yourself. The bearings, thankfully, are generic parts: 608ZZ.)
Tepix 1y ago
Here is a (much cheaper ~50€) DIY project "airrohr" that measures particulates: https://sensor.community/en/sensors/airrohr/ https://sensor.community/en/sensors/airrohr/ The project was formerly known as luftdaten.info They are collecting data from more than 10,000 sensors world-wide!
jdalgetty 1y ago
Is there any sort of case option for this? How resistant is it to moisture?
tomhow 1y ago
I just wanted to draw attention to this detail in one of the comments [1] from the author. This post [2] details the process they went though to port their device firmware to Wasm for their interactive demo. As a colleague put it, could be a pretty solid Show HN in its own right. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44190541 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44190541 [2] https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/updates/firmware-simulator https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/upda...
- 256dpi 1y ago
  Thanks tomhow! The idea for building the Air Lab simulator was very much inspired by the feedback I got from you. Here is a bit of background for the other readers: I reached out to HN by mail (as suggested on their tips page) to gauge whether my story/product was allowed to be posted as a Show HN post. They pointed out that HN requires a more "direct" demo of things. Their suggestion was to create a "raw" video showing how the device works and feels. It made a lot of sense to me. However, as a designer by training, it’s hard for me to produce something like that, as I naturally gravitate towards polishing it too much. When discussing this dilemma with my colleague, we remembered an idea I had some time ago about creating interactive renderings for the Air Lab website. Quickly, we agreed that this would be worth testing, as the whole goal of the video was to give the HN community a feel for the device. As mentioned in my comment and the Crowd Supply update, I used emscripten to compile the stock firmware to WASM. Luckily, by that time, I was already mostly done with extracting a hardware abstraction-layer from the firmware. This meant that I already had a nice API that I needed to ”mock” and connect to the fake sensors and controls on the website. So most of the work for that week was to actually build the simulator app using Ember.js around the compiled firmware and integrate it. By doing that, I also found a couple of bugs in the firmware itself that have been much easier to debug with the simulator than with a real device. I can recommend to anyone to reach out to the HN moderators and validate their post. Especially, if it is not a software thing that one can immediately try out. But also then, I think most posts/projects could profit from a more interactive demo.
bhouston 1y ago
I recently upgraded to an EcoBee Premium and it has a lot of overlap with this device: - Temperature (we have multiple sensors, one per major area of the house) - Presence (the multiple sensors also record occupancy) - Humidity - CO2 - VOx What is nice is we can use the CO2/VOX to drive our HRV (heat recovery ventilation) to get fresh air from the outside into the house, but we only need to do this on demand, thus saving significant energy as compared to just constant HRV usage. We can also use the humidity sensor to drive our humidifier. We can use the occupancy + temperature to guide the AC / furnace. And we have an external temperature sensor to allow us to smartly use the heat pump versus furnace. I view this as a little more practical than just recording values - it makes them actionable and automatic.
- sedgjh23 1y ago
  Just a heads up, the EcoBee doesn’t use a CO2 sensor, it just guesses what the value is. I have the same thermostat and was getting wildly different readings than my more expensive AirThings View Plus. Checked the EcoBee support website[1] and it made a lot more sense. “Based on the VOC measurement, it can also estimate carbon dioxide (CO2) levels. The sensor doesn’t directly measure CO2 but assesses CO2 levels based on the average correlation between VOCs and CO2 in exhaled human breath.” [1] https://support.ecobee.com/s/articles/air-quality-sensor-faqs https://support.ecobee.com/s/articles/air-quality-sensor-faq...
  - bhouston 1y ago
    Which seems fair, because I live in a normal home with breathing humans and not an industrial setting where VOCs are produced in other ways. How wildly off were the readings btw? And were you doing things related to VOCs? Which reading was erroneously under reported compared to actual, CO2 or VOC?
    - jaharmi 1y ago
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256dpi 1y ago
Dear HN community, thank you for the great feedback on my project! All comments, from honest remarks on the price to personal anecdotes on handling air quality issues, will help me, and others in this space, improve the product and raise awareness for this important global topic. Enjoy the weekend!
jhlee525 1y ago
It may vary by region, but there are certainly places around the world where it is needed.
TheonlyJem 1y ago
kudos for sticking with it for three years and still pushing to make it more open and accessible
abcd_f 1y ago
Very Teenage Engineering-like aesthetics, super cool!

497 points by 256dpi 1y ago

benbojangles 1y ago

https://github.com/benb0jangles/Air_Quality_monitor https://github.com/benb0jangles/Air_Quality_monitor

benbojangles 1y ago
I think this one has a BOM of about $50
- benbojangles 1y ago
  and it displays github pages as well as the oled

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miiiiiike 1y ago

You made the simulator in a week..? Am I bad at what I do?

256dpi 1y ago
I have written a bit about the process here: https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/updates/firmware-simulator https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/upda.... TLDR: It compiles the stock firmware to WASM using emscripten. Thus, I did not build all of it in one week and rather just the web app around the firmware.

touwer 1y ago

Cool project! And much needed

silversmith 1y ago

I use Aranet devices myself - https://www.aranet.com/en/home/products/aranet4-home https://www.aranet.com/en/home/products/aranet4-home What you could take from them is how prominent the current measurement is on the screen. I can glance over from a distance and instantly see the number. The colours get inverted if it goes into the red zone, so I can glance at it from across the room without my glasses and still see whether it's bad or not. From what the simulator shows, with your device I'd need to lean in pretty close to understand what's going on. And blinking light indicators are tricky - you can easily catch it between blinks and look away content that everything's alright.

256dpi 1y ago
Yes, that's something I want to improve. ATM, if you rotate the (real) device, it will show a vertical layout in stand-by mode that uses a large font to display the values. I still need to add this to the simulator. A horizontal layout with bigger fonts is on the to-do list!

Y_Y 1y ago

https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab $230 ain't cheap! Also, I parsed this as: (open air) (quality measuring device)

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zevon 1y ago

Nice work! Are you aware of https://sensor.community https://sensor.community ? They have sensor designs as well but I mainly mention them because they have open infrastructure to aggregate sensor data on a public map.

poisonborz 1y ago

Very cool project, we need more competition in this space - other option is like Air Gradient One, also open source. Famous HN "but": I find it baffling that by default we are shown this cutesy animation, that gets boring real fast, and actual measurement values in tiny font in the corner, which must be manually switched to for each sensor? Why not just show all sensor values in large font?

rokkamokka 1y ago
Yeah the display design seems to put the emphasis on fun rather than functional
pcl 1y ago
I guess this is one of the cool things about an open stack, right?
Timshel 1y ago
There is a screen saver which display time/temp/ppm/rh. And: > The official firmware for the Air Lab will be open-source and available on GitHub. Extend it and customize it to your needs.
256dpi 1y ago
Thanks! As other commenters suggested, there is a screen saver (after 30s idle) that shows all values (horizontal and vertical) at a glance. The layout is not final yet and something I want to improve (make bigger). You can try it in the simulator.
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stared 1y ago

I like your design, especially the e-ink display! I am curious, what are pros and cons (connectivity, measurement quality) with Qingping Air Monitor 2 (https://qingping.co/air-monitor-2/ https://qingping.co/air-monitor-2/)?

hereme888 1y ago

If only 1% of products were as honest in their presentation. Your page has the actual device, and users can "use" it just the way it works. No bikini models, no pretentious fancy screenshot, no dark patterns. The product speaks for itself. The thoughtfulness behind the website's UI speaks of who's behind it.

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ninetyninenine 1y ago
Whats wrong with bikini models? I want the product and the bikini model.

bflesch 1y ago

Nice device, but too playful for my needs. I'm still looking for a good sensor like Aranet but without the display and the vendor lock-in. Maybe if display is removed from this one it would work?

yreg 1y ago
You can cover it with some tape. :)
- bflesch 1y ago
  ;) the thought was more about reduce energy consumption and cost
  - silversmith 1y ago
    Aranet runs on e-ink, with silly low energy refresh rate. The two (or was it one? ages since I last checked) AA batteries last me well over two years. As for vendor lock-in, the basic readings get broadcast over bluetooth advertisments, and you can establish connection to get all the data. I have couple of them working nicely with HomeAssistant. The cost, yeah, I'd love it to be cheaper.
aurelwu 1y ago
you can get a ESP32 and a CO2-Sensor, easiest would be to use a development kit like a m5-stickC and the Sensirion SCD41 and with some small arduino scripts you are good to go to send the data via WLAN or BLE for something like 70€. Can be even cheaper if you don't use a development kit but it makes things a lot easier and the small display helps with debugging.

wuming2 1y ago

To be honest, if you have to look at a display to be alerted about bad air quality it’s likely either you know about it already or you are needlessly obsessing. Either way it is the reason I built a service to remote push notify myself. Peace if mind.

samuraijack 1y ago
Or you are just used to poor air quality so you don’t even notice it anymore.
- hazn 1y ago
  and the fact that air quality usually gradually worsens over time. i think it's easier to tell bad air quality when you move in between rooms/spaces. but i agree with the op that 'looking' at a display already subconsciously tells you something about the air quality and your relation to it. my air quality sensor [0] has a green/orange/red light system though, so i can sometimes just tell that the air quality is bad by a red led flaring up in the corner of my eye. [0] https://www.tfa-dostmann.de/en/product/co2-monitor-airco2ntrol-mini-31-5006/ https://www.tfa-dostmann.de/en/product/co2-monitor-airco2ntr... previous discussion on the above meter: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22764603 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22764603
  - imp0cat 1y ago
    The AIRCO2NTROL MINI is a great little device to have in a bedroom or living room, the green/orange/led lights are easy to understand (think traffic lights) even by non-technical people.
- wuming2 1y ago
  I was referring to looking at a display to be timely informed about an event, crossing the threshold out of acceptable air quality, that can occur at any time of the day. If air quality is consistently bad you don’t need a measuring device but a good air filter. If instead it is not then relying on constantly looking at it is a poor solution.

xvfLJfx9 1y ago

I wish it would have support for Zigbee so I can pair it with other open data aggregation systems like Home Assistant. AirGradient, another cool air quality monitor, for example, does not have this.

patrickk 1y ago
They integrate with Home Assistant via MQTT: https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/updates/a-deep-dive-into-integrating-air-lab-with-home-assistant https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/upda...
scottlamb 1y ago
The trick with the AirGradient is to use one of the ESPHome configs available [1] instead of their crappy Arduino sketch. Then it integrates with Home Assistant perfectly. [1] e.g. https://github.com/MallocArray/airgradient_esphome https://github.com/MallocArray/airgradient_esphome
westurner 1y ago
Matter protocol support would also be a useful feature. Potential integration: Run HVAC fans and/or an attic fan and/or a crawlspace fan if indoor AQI is worse than outdoor AQI This says that Air Quality Sensor support was added to matter protocol in 2023: https://csa-iot.org/newsroom/matter-1-2-arrives-with-nine-new-device-types-improvements-across-the-board/ https://csa-iot.org/newsroom/matter-1-2-arrives-with-nine-ne... : > Air Quality Sensors – Supported sensors can capture and report on: PM1, PM2.5, PM10, CO2, NO2, VOC, CO, Ozone, Radon, and Formaldehyde. Furthermore, the addition of the Air Quality Cluster enables Matter devices to provide AQI information based on the device’s location /? matter protocol Air Quality Cluster: https://www.google.com/search?q=matter+protocol+Air+Quality+Cluster https://www.google.com/search?q=matter+protocol+Air+Quality+...
- 256dpi 1y ago
  We'll definitely look into supporting Matter in the future, as it would allow integration with the most common home automation platforms/apps out there.

net01 1y ago

I find the specs a bit expensive for what it is, but the software looks really good. Specs: - Microcontroller: ESP32-S3 - Air sensors: SCD41, SGP41 & LPS22 - Display: 296×128 e-paper - Battery: 1500 mAh Li-Po - Anodized aluminium enclosure - Real-time clock - Accelerometer - Wi-Fi & Bluetooth LE - ~7.5 days of battery life

256dpi 1y ago
That's correct if you just look at the component costs. Unfortunately, to make these in a small series, a lot of other costs come together. If we could, we would offer it a better price. Maybe some time soon!
snickmy 1y ago
I really feel for the creators here. I was thinking exactly like that before trying to build an electronic device myself. Later on I talked to people working in the hardware industry for small production scale, and pretty much told me that a fair pricing is usually 5x to 7x the total BOM (bill of materials). After going through that experience myself, I couldn't agree more. This device in particular has some extra well thought design and style which might be worth a premium (on top of that 5x/7x multiplier).
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whiplash451 1y ago

Very cool product. Am wondering if there exists an equivalent of this for physical activity, i.e. device you could attach to your physical keys and would measure footsteps/biking/running (while doing the switching automatically)?

vallode 1y ago
Certain smartwatches offer a "pebble mode" feature like the Xiaomi band 9, you can get a keyring case for it and just attach it like that. I don't think it has automatic switching between exercise modes just tracking for steps etc.
- whiplash451 1y ago
  Thanks. I don't want a smartwatch (I have a great "dumb" watch that I love). I'm rather looking for a device like this Air Lab but for physical activity.

red523 1y ago

Good idea, but not cheap compared to Aranet4 ~200USD. Not sure ESP32 is a good choice for power consumption.

benchly 1y ago
What's a good alternative? My understanding (which may be wrong, so I am open to being corrected) is that the greatest power consumption you'll see from ESP32 is connecting to a network and uploading data, the idea being less connections mean less power consumption. The ePaper display should be nice and low power consumption, too. I'd expect a common pocket battery bank to power it for a few weeks if one were using it to gather data for later use. Again, happy to be corrected. It's really fortunate that this post showed up on HN since just last month, I ordered a few components to start making my own air quality sensors, the goal being to create some units that I can strap on my car and gather data while I travel for work (personal curiosity, mostly). There's tons of great projects and info being referenced in this thread.
- 256dpi 1y ago
  OP is probably comparing the ESP32 to a NRF chip. These offer Bluetooth connectivity while running from a coin cell with <1mA power consumption, compared to the ESP32s ~50mA when not sleeping. Luckily, we can stay in deep sleep most of the time to save battery. We mainly went with an ESP32 because of the great SDK and software support through Arduino etc. That way, people that want to customize the firmware or build their own can get started quickly.
  - benchly 1y ago
    It's a sensible choice. From a newbie perspective, it's certainly easy to work with and there's no shortage of documentation when I'm trying to figure something out. I'd pull the trigger on one of your devices right now because of that if funds weren't currently an issue (sadly, I am between jobs, atm).
    - 256dpi 1y ago

Timot05 1y ago

Nice kickstand!

256dpi 1y ago
Thanks! Our engineer invested a lot of time to get the feeling just perfect! :-)

homebrewer 1y ago

JFYI: a (hopefully much) cheaper stripped down version of the device would be useful. Air quality is the worst in poorer regions of the world, and as someone who suffers from horrible air pollution, but who's also living a relatively cushy life (by our standards), I can assure you that $200+ for an air quality sensor puts it into the "unobtainable" bucket. Add shipping and it probably gets closer to $300, which is roughly equal to the median monthly salary over here. Your NO₂ measurements make it a really interesting device compared to most alternatives that only measure particulate matter. All gas sensors that are theoretically possible for me to obtain cost hundreds of dollars by themselves.

crtified 1y ago
I'll preface this by saying that product design and manufacturing and public-proofing is long, hard work, and the retail price of this product is likely to be well justified for all kinds of reasons. That said, looking at the main active components that are listed, we have - ESP32S3 IC : $4 retail, SCD41 Sensor : $21 retail, SGP41 Sensor : $8 retail, LPS22 Sensor : $4 retail Which is very hopeful, in the sense that some key functionality of this kind of device could potentially be open sourced and pared back to a minimal cost where hobbyists could build versions suitable for the economics of developing countries.
- iamflimflam1 1y ago
  Tariffs are having a big impact on people outside the US using CrowdSupply. CrowdSupply ships everything via Mouser US - so if you are outside of the US you need to export your products to Mouser. That hits you with tariffs and the tariffs are charged on what CrowdSupply are paying you for the products. If the majority of your product is manufactured in China (e.g. PCBA) then it's very likely that the COO for your product will be China. So, you will get stung with whatever crazy tariffs are currently in place.
  - 256dpi 1y ago
    This has been very tricky to navigate for us. We almost launched the campaign right before the Tariffs got announced. Luckily, we had the opportunity to wait it out. While CrowdSupply is an awesome platform, and I would use it again, the requirement to export everything to the US is a problem in such situations.

Dkumpikolo 1y ago

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aurelwu 1y ago

Hi, I developed indoorco2map.com which is a an app-supported crowd-data-science project where users can submit CO2-Data they measure when going shopping or to restaurants or wherever using a simple-to-use App. I'd like to support your Device - is there documentation available about how to read the Data via BLE? All I need is the CO2-History (either with timestamp, or just ordered + information about update interval). MIT Licensed: https://github.com/AurelWu/IndoorCO2AppMAUI https://github.com/AurelWu/IndoorCO2AppMAUI PS: do you use the air pressure to correct the CO2-readings like the Aranet4 does or would users need to manually recalibrate when the move to higher/lower elevations compared to when the sensor was calibrated?

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256dpi 1y ago
We love indoorco2map.com and would be happy to ensure that data from the Air Lab can be exported to it! We plan to expose simple BLE characteristics for all sensor values (similar to the Aranet). On top of that, we already have an API that would allow reading the full history from temporary storage (timestamped). Keep an eye on our website; we'll soon add a manual section with more details on that. We have not integrated compensation of CO2-readings yet, but will certainly look into it before shipping the device.

flawn 1y ago

love this!

Isn0gud 1y ago

The ikea vindstyrka sensor is 50$, how is this 4x the price?

rspoerri 1y ago
Any co2 measuring device costs at least 70$. All devices i know with internet connectivity costs 150$+.
- djrj477dhsnv 1y ago
  My Qingping Monitor Lite with SenseAir S8 co2 sensor, pm2.5, wifi, and oled display seems to be accurate enough and was only $45.
256dpi 1y ago
We added many components that are not strictly needed to measure air quality but make the device an interesting platform for custom projects. Also, the enclosure is more premium, being made from aluminum. Finally, IKEA can leverage economy of scale and probably gets a much better price on most parts.

pppone 1y ago

A really nice way of experiencing a hardware product! I wish we had done the same for our air quality monitor when we were operational. [0] [0] - https://www.open-seneca.org/ https://www.open-seneca.org/

finnjohnsen2 1y ago

Semi off-topic. Anyone know why radon sensor modules are absent as modules one can buy and use in your own arduino-thing?

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voxlax 1y ago

You can get the same measurements and even more from AirGradient. Those are a bit cheaper and much more solid devices. Not so focused on design, but rather on accuracy: https://www.airgradient.com https://www.airgradient.com I´m not affiliated with them in any way, but I´m using their indoor and outdoor sensors since a few years by now, and I am very satisifed. Btw. their HW is opensource and you can choose between their SW or can flash anything else. The measurement data of my outdoor sensor is publicly available: https://explore.openaq.org/?location=2070168#13.21/48.22244/16.37334 https://explore.openaq.org/?location=2070168#13.21/48.22244/...

esskay 1y ago
Another vote for AirGradient's devices which are great IMO, got a few of them now and they've been very easy to integrate into my setup.
badmorale 1y ago
AirGradient is fantastic!
technotarek 1y ago
A sincere question : In a home environment, what information do devices like this provide that you regularly act upon and how? Can you give some examples? I’m trying to understand the use case given I already have a thermostat with humidity readings and look at the weather for air quality. Is it more than after cooking, the PPMs are high, open the window or turn on the vent fan (which I do out of habit anyways)? I self imposed a rule when I went through the process of having a child — to avoid (negative) information that I couldn’t or wouldn’t really act upon (e.g. learning about genetic markers/hints that couldn’t be prevented and wouldn’t make me think about extreme measures, such as blindness). For me it’s an issue of anxiety management.
- technotarek 1y ago
  Not a fan of my own medical example there. If I knew my kid was going to be blind, there are lots of actions I would take: Educating myself, potentially preparing the home environment etc.

tremarley 1y ago

The website is broken

256dpi 1y ago
Sorry to hear that! I'm happy to investigate if you let me know your browser/platform.

ronakjain90 1y ago

Your product looks so good, congratulations on your launch. Have you considered making a standalone devices with just sensors (think data only mode) and letting the users hook up their data on any eink dashboard of their choice. Below are some of the example of community created Air Quality dashboards[1] installable on any e-ink hardware[2]. [1] https://usetrmnl.com/recipes/62233 https://usetrmnl.com/recipes/62233, https://usetrmnl.com/recipes/23306 https://usetrmnl.com/recipes/23306 [2] https://github.com/usetrmnl/firmware/ https://github.com/usetrmnl/firmware/ Disclosure: I work at TRMNL.

256dpi 1y ago
Thank you! Yes, that's something we'd like to prototype soon for supporting multiple rooms/locations. Integrating with other dashboards including TRMNL would be awesome too.
- InsOp 1y ago
  like ZigBee compatible with home assistant

Siecje 1y ago

Any plans for power over Ethernet?

jonah 1y ago
There exist little adapters that take in PoE and output power (and potentially networking) over USB-C. Something like that could be employed to power this.

mozvalentin 1y ago

I really appreciate having an open source solution. I hope the production costs can come down over time. I currently have an Airthings Wave and a Plus - which are roughtly in the same price range but additionally measure Radon.

pooloo 1y ago
Yeah I am in the same boat, I have a lot of airthings products primarily for the radon measurements, which is at the same price point.

Eduard 1y ago

I would find it more natural when the positions of the AB buttons area was switched with the D-pad area.

256dpi 1y ago
Good catch! Unfortunately, we realized a bit too late that we flipped the standard console layout (e.g. Game Boy). Luckily, most people that notice get used to it quickly.

neves 1y ago

I'm always lost when it comes to air quality meters. There are so many specifications, and in general, they're quite expensive—especially for people in third-world countries. Does anyone know a good air quality monitor that costs less than 100 dollars? Preferably one that can be purchased on a Chinese website like AliExpress.

xvilka 1y ago
Devices below 100 usually have bad sensors so they do some black magic and a lot of approximation in the firmware/software. Good air quality meter with good sensors simply cannot cost this low, even in the economy of scale.
Rebelgecko 1y ago
If you're willing to DIY a bit you can put together an Airgradient for under $100. Especially if you're making multiple

tigrezno 1y ago

I don't get this. My current air purifier (philips) costs like 150€, includes an air quality sensor and the app reports shows graphs with PPM, VOC, whatever. Why would I pay double for a device that doesn't even filter the air of my room?

snickmy 1y ago
different use cases. I don't expect you to go around with your air purifier attached to your neck :)
- bravesoul2 1y ago
  Sure but same tech. It'll boil down to economies of scale. Also indoor AQ where you spend most of your time is more useful to know. Dust and CO2 are something you can actively reduce.
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jvanderbot 1y ago

I get that particle counters are a bit bulky, but with wildfires all over USA at the moment, that'd be a big draw. It's $30 more.

256dpi 1y ago
You can easily hook a PM sensor like the SEN54 to the extension port at the back. We're also thinking about offering an "upgrade kit" to match the design.

savrajsingh 1y ago

No pm2.5?

256dpi 1y ago
Not yet. Unfortunately, these are usually quite big, and we didn't want to sacrifice the portability. But you can add a PM sensor through the extension port. We'll document this in our upcoming manual. A fellow Crowd Supply project, Polverine[1], uses a new Bosch sensor that is very small. If we do a refresh of the device, we'll certainly look into adding it. [1]: https://www.crowdsupply.com/blackiot/polverine https://www.crowdsupply.com/blackiot/polverine
- haarolean 1y ago
  IMO, PM2.5 sensors are essential nowadays. What's the point of a device without one? Especially for $229. I can get a chinese thingy like qingping for ~$115 with PM2.5 and other stuff.

deanc 1y ago

Can someone please tell me why it's so expensive to measure the quality of air? Literally all of these devices (ones that actually give accurate measurements) cost a fortune. What makes the sensors so expensive?

est 1y ago
I guess it's the CO₂ sensor
- deanc 1y ago
  Yes, but why are CO2 sensors so expensive?
  - ted_dunning 1y ago
    Check out how they work. One kind emits light through a folded optic path through the test gas and detects the difference in the absorption between wavelengths of light are used. The difference in absorption is minute so the optical path needs to be as long as possible which makes it hard to make the detector small. The other kind detects the sound emitted when a precise frequency of IR is transmitted through a gas. If the frequency of the light is just right, it will be absorbed by the CO2 causing it to heat up ever so slightly which causes a tiny bit of sound. Both of these are incredibly ticklish devices to design and build in mass. That you can get these for as low as about $20 in quantity is actually mind bogglingly cheap.

clvx 1y ago

Ok, This is interesting. I need something alike that can measure whatever marijuana grow facilities generate. A neighbor lives in disbelief their facility doesn't produce any smell but neighbors in a mile radius disagree with it. He is willing to set up measurements to reduce any impact but I don't have a way to collect real data beyond it's smelling. I always depends on where the wind is blowing but it's constant.

hedora 1y ago
Voc might work. It covers most things you can smell. If it’s a sulfur smell, it’s probably sewer gas from something decomposing or fertilizer (or an unrelated sewer problem near the facility), and a natural gas / propane detector should work. They also pick up methane, which is odorless, but is probably being produced by the same source.
dbacar 1y ago
You sound like you are asking for a friend :).

ceva 1y ago

Well there is free open source version developed from Serbia https://klimerko.org/ https://klimerko.org/

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benob 1y ago

It looks pretty and featureful, but I'd love a cheaper version, maybe without a display.

JKCalhoun 1y ago

See the lanyard thing going on ... thinking a watch config would be preferable (if it could be scaled down to that size).

Eextra953 1y ago

Cool product! I come from a measurement/calibration background, so I'm curious about the accuracy of your system. Have you tested this against lab equipment, or do you have plans to specify accuracy with proper tolerance intervals? What about measurement uncertainty and unit-to-unit variability? I know this is consumer hardware, so I dont expect a full blown evaluation but have you characterized expected performance?

256dpi 1y ago
Thanks and good question! We have planned to do a proper lab test soon. The Swiss Federal Office for the Environment is a project partner and has such equipment. During the design phase, we used a software to model the air flow and particle movements through the enclosure. Until then, we can only state what is already specified in the SCD41 and SGP41 datasheets.

bethekidyouwant 1y ago

I have these (inexpensive) sensors (except the barometer) hooked up to esp32’s in my home. After reviewing several months of the graph output I don’t have any confidence in the voc or co2 sensors accuracy. Additionally there is no good way to calibrate them outside of a lab. Imo the technology on the more interesting cheap sensors is not there yet.

256dpi 1y ago
I'm curious, what's the range/variability you're seeing?
vosper 1y ago
For the AirGradient device I think the way to calibrate CO2 is to expose it to fresh air at some point, which has a known CO2 level. It’s supposed to auto-calibrate. But if you don’t do that regularly then the readings will drift (without anyway of telling they’re drifting). You also can’t tell when the sensor has calibrated. IIUC VOC is way more complicated and hard to both calibrate and interpret. I’m not sure I have any faith in that value. I do think a lot of people are going to be mislead by these monitors, the sensors and devices come with a bunch of caveats that aren’t clearly communicated. For me what people should most care about is particulates, and at least as far as I know those sensors don’t come with the calibration issues of CO2 and VOC. That’s the sensor my AirGradient is set to alert on.
- hedora 1y ago
  I was worried our sensors had that autocalibration mode. Our house has new concrete floors. They alternate between absorbing + outgassing CO2 (depending on room temperature), so sometimes our living room reads below 400 ppm. From what I can tell, the sensors haven't drifted, so they're not using the "below 420 ppm => recalibrate" heuristic.
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- Aspos 1y ago

ge96 1y ago

the clickable image is a nice touch (buttons)

orion138 1y ago

What effect, if any, did you notice on sensor outputs from heat generated by other system components? e.g., constant temperature offset after reaching thermal steady state

256dpi 1y ago
We have not tested this properly (see my other comment on lab testing), but so far we have observed no effect during normal operation and only saw a slight increase when charging the device (~1°). We took great care to move the sensors far away from power management. Luckily, the display cutout also helps here. You can find more infos here: https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/updates/hardware-details https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/upda...

pkdpic 1y ago

I love it and I want to buy one for every on of my family and friends. Just curious though does it cover finer particles and if not just curious why? Same question I guess for a general AQI rating. The one random (probably poor quality) portable AQI monitor I have covers different levels of fine particles and that seems really useful during fire season when its bad (in Nor Cal). But of course I'm not super knowledgeable about any of this. Anyway fantastic project, I absolutely love it.

colechristensen 1y ago
It does not have any particle detection
256dpi 1y ago
As the sibling commenter pointed out correctly, there is no PM sensor built-in at the moment. However, we added an extension port at the back that allows connecting PM sensors like the SEN54. We also plan to support this natively in the firmware and perhaps even offer a kit sometime soon that matches the design language.

raudette 1y ago

General feedback: - I want something like this - I have built crude air quality monitors (sensors + micro-controller) but would prefer something I can buy - I love the openness - I love the form factor. I would like the ability to carry it around, the loop on this is great. eg: what is this meeting room like after 45 minutes? - Would like to see PM2.5 - the AirGradient is probably closer to what I want

Havoc 1y ago
PM2.5 is quite challenging to miniaturize for a mobile & compact form factor like this - you need a fan of some sort.
- formerly_proven 1y ago
  Not necessarily: https://www.bosch-sensortec.com/products/environmental-sensors/particulate-matter-sensor/bmv080/ https://www.bosch-sensortec.com/products/environmental-senso... (fits in an USB key: https://www2.purpleair.com/products/purpleair-pixel https://www2.purpleair.com/products/purpleair-pixel)
  - Havoc 1y ago
    Oh that's fun. Been meaning to get PM2.5 for my place but the one I've got has a whiny fan Thanks for linking

knowitnone 1y ago

IMHO, since laptops and smartphones are so ubiquitous, it would have been better and cheaper to build just the sensor with bluetooth connectivity. I guess your market is different. I know my local library has something similar mounted on their walls.

Havoc 1y ago

Looks slick & portability is a neat trick, but that's going to be a tough sell at the price. Anyone with ability to customize & extend this would know that a ESP and SCD41 sensor are around 10 bucks each.

SeasonalEnnui 1y ago

I really like this. Did you investigate the options regarding CO2 sensors? I'm interested to know if you compared SCD30 to SCD41? The dual-channel design of SCD30 is supposed to offer lower drift and longer stability compared to the SCD41 (which claims to need taking outside once a week). That's the deal on paper, I'm wondering if you got any real data on this.

256dpi 1y ago
Thanks! The SCD30 is a great sensor and obviously better than the SCD41. But we did not look at it in more detail, as we chose the SCD41 primarily for its small size. We believe that an accuracy of +/-50ppm is enough for a device like the Air Lab. Also, we'll actively look into reminding the user to take the device outside if automatic calibration is used. On top of that, it's our plan to either factory calibrate the devices and/or offer manual recalibration that should extend beyond the 1-week interval with automatic calibration.
- tyeth 1y ago
  Maybe contact Sensirion about the STCC4, better form factor and due for release any moment...They have a contact sales option and are usually helpful. https://sensirion.com/products/catalog/STCC4 https://sensirion.com/products/catalog/STCC4 (Not sure but thought maybe used in the SEN66 which is available now and covers most things including PPM/CO2/VOC/NOx)

ajolly 1y ago

It's cute but unless you really need the size+ onboard screen, I don't see the big win of this over an Apollo air-1. (Esphome based, easy HA integration. Or an inkbird - I paid $99 for one with co2, HCHO, AQI, PM2.5 PM10, TVOC, Temperature, Humidity. It has a display and integrates with home assistant. Built in battery if you want to move it around. I own both of those. A DIY it but I haven't seen a good reason to. The big advantage of the ESP home devices out there is they are extremely easy to tinker with if you want to change anything

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Henadz 1y ago

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snvzz 1y ago

>ESP32S3 Unfortunately predates the switch to RISC-V.

Dusksky 1y ago

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Fnoord 1y ago

I made my own with Pimoroni (with a small OLED), a Raspberry Pi Zero, a UPS Lite, and a PoE hat (I could switch between these options). Then I updated the OS, Python 2 to 3 and RIP. They sell a Pico version nowadays. It cost me approx 100 EUR with all mats, during Covid pandemic. It worked nice in Prometheus, Grafana, HomeAssistent. Put one outside, too. After I bricked it I bought two Switchbot Co2 meter (these got e-paper, though I got those also lying around), for 60 EUR each, used some nanotape to attach these on a spot I like. I use one upstairs and one downstairs. If we sleep with all 4 in same bed, during cooking, or bday parties these go high. Otherwise not. Is it needed? Not really. You physically notice the air quality and take action. Except when you don't. My mother in law doesn't notice her fumes in house (she lost some smelling ability) so I bought her a Switchbot, too. There's no way I would pay more than 200 EUR for such a device. Not even 100 EUR. I get it, you're from Switzerland with a high cost of living, but that isn't my problem.

sizzle 1y ago
How have I never heard of Switchbot, their products look really great and I’m desperately trying to get off the Alexa ecosystem for native apple HomeKit. Do you still recommend them or is there a better HomeKit enabled brand you prefer?
- Fnoord 1y ago
  Cannot comment on that as I don't use HomeKit.
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tgtweak 1y ago

The price seems very high for the components. The top airthings with pm2.5, pm1, CO2, radon, humidity, temperature, pressure and full WiFi + cloud connectivity is $250.

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mihaaly 1y ago

The simulation is an excellent idea! Very good it can be explored so easily, excellent. I find the usage of it suboptimal. Showing the main information in small and tucked away in corners while the rest of the screen is filled with short time amusing animation or nothing. Things happen automatically after a short period of time, and so far I wasn't able to get to the dasboard (tiny characters, not using the full screen) on will, only by waiting. Not quickly obvious what and when the buttons will do (indication sometime sqeezed into tiny parts of the animation), needs quite a bit of practice, and so can be forgotten later, needing relearn. It is nice having a plethora of funcionality but the core functionality suffers a bit in my view. This is just personal observation. A device like this is a very useful one, but not like this. It is demanding to use for the few most important things.

burnt-resistor 1y ago

Needs a particle sensor like a PlanTower PMS5003 or it's not really worth the effort. I made an Arduino + PMS5003 + LCD for use during the NorCal fires of 2020 when the readings were 900+ μg/m^3. At that time, I was wearing a full-face P100 respirator outdoors because the visibility was down to about 100' / 30m. That was about the same time I bought an overpriced BlueAir 680i because Consumer Reports rated the similar BlueAir 605 as the best air purifier they ever tested. (Unfortunately, that whole line they used cheap bearings in the fan motors that fail after a few years without replacement parts that you have to disassemble the motors and swap yourself. The bearings, thankfully, are generic parts: 608ZZ.)

Tepix 1y ago

Here is a (much cheaper ~50€) DIY project "airrohr" that measures particulates: https://sensor.community/en/sensors/airrohr/ https://sensor.community/en/sensors/airrohr/ The project was formerly known as luftdaten.info They are collecting data from more than 10,000 sensors world-wide!

jdalgetty 1y ago

Is there any sort of case option for this? How resistant is it to moisture?

tomhow 1y ago

I just wanted to draw attention to this detail in one of the comments [1] from the author. This post [2] details the process they went though to port their device firmware to Wasm for their interactive demo. As a colleague put it, could be a pretty solid Show HN in its own right. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44190541 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44190541 [2] https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/updates/firmware-simulator https://www.crowdsupply.com/networked-artifacts/air-lab/upda...

256dpi 1y ago
Thanks tomhow! The idea for building the Air Lab simulator was very much inspired by the feedback I got from you. Here is a bit of background for the other readers: I reached out to HN by mail (as suggested on their tips page) to gauge whether my story/product was allowed to be posted as a Show HN post. They pointed out that HN requires a more "direct" demo of things. Their suggestion was to create a "raw" video showing how the device works and feels. It made a lot of sense to me. However, as a designer by training, it’s hard for me to produce something like that, as I naturally gravitate towards polishing it too much. When discussing this dilemma with my colleague, we remembered an idea I had some time ago about creating interactive renderings for the Air Lab website. Quickly, we agreed that this would be worth testing, as the whole goal of the video was to give the HN community a feel for the device. As mentioned in my comment and the Crowd Supply update, I used emscripten to compile the stock firmware to WASM. Luckily, by that time, I was already mostly done with extracting a hardware abstraction-layer from the firmware. This meant that I already had a nice API that I needed to ”mock” and connect to the fake sensors and controls on the website. So most of the work for that week was to actually build the simulator app using Ember.js around the compiled firmware and integrate it. By doing that, I also found a couple of bugs in the firmware itself that have been much easier to debug with the simulator than with a real device. I can recommend to anyone to reach out to the HN moderators and validate their post. Especially, if it is not a software thing that one can immediately try out. But also then, I think most posts/projects could profit from a more interactive demo.

bhouston 1y ago

I recently upgraded to an EcoBee Premium and it has a lot of overlap with this device: - Temperature (we have multiple sensors, one per major area of the house) - Presence (the multiple sensors also record occupancy) - Humidity - CO2 - VOx What is nice is we can use the CO2/VOX to drive our HRV (heat recovery ventilation) to get fresh air from the outside into the house, but we only need to do this on demand, thus saving significant energy as compared to just constant HRV usage. We can also use the humidity sensor to drive our humidifier. We can use the occupancy + temperature to guide the AC / furnace. And we have an external temperature sensor to allow us to smartly use the heat pump versus furnace. I view this as a little more practical than just recording values - it makes them actionable and automatic.

sedgjh23 1y ago
Just a heads up, the EcoBee doesn’t use a CO2 sensor, it just guesses what the value is. I have the same thermostat and was getting wildly different readings than my more expensive AirThings View Plus. Checked the EcoBee support website[1] and it made a lot more sense. “Based on the VOC measurement, it can also estimate carbon dioxide (CO2) levels. The sensor doesn’t directly measure CO2 but assesses CO2 levels based on the average correlation between VOCs and CO2 in exhaled human breath.” [1] https://support.ecobee.com/s/articles/air-quality-sensor-faqs https://support.ecobee.com/s/articles/air-quality-sensor-faq...
- bhouston 1y ago
  Which seems fair, because I live in a normal home with breathing humans and not an industrial setting where VOCs are produced in other ways. How wildly off were the readings btw? And were you doing things related to VOCs? Which reading was erroneously under reported compared to actual, CO2 or VOC?
  - jaharmi 1y ago
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256dpi 1y ago

Dear HN community, thank you for the great feedback on my project! All comments, from honest remarks on the price to personal anecdotes on handling air quality issues, will help me, and others in this space, improve the product and raise awareness for this important global topic. Enjoy the weekend!

jhlee525 1y ago

It may vary by region, but there are certainly places around the world where it is needed.

TheonlyJem 1y ago

kudos for sticking with it for three years and still pushing to make it more open and accessible

abcd_f 1y ago

Very Teenage Engineering-like aesthetics, super cool!