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Now there are more avenues for Samsung to shove bloatware down our throats. I have a modestly high-end home theater and it is utterly maddening waiting for devi

Now there are more avenues for Samsung to shove bloatware down our throats. I have a modestly high-end home theater and it is utterly maddening waiting for devices to “boot” and “handshake”. And after the wait, I’m presented with another “User Agreement” to sign that insists on shoveling ads down my throat and harvesting data. How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experience? Just like every retailer has embraced usury with their credit card programs, every technology company has decided they are in the data harvesting business. I’m so over it.

mcsniff 1y ago
Sonarr, Radarr, Lidard are completely free, no ads, and private. Throw in JellyFin and Kodi and you're set -- no financial cost.
- wlesieutre 1y ago
  Which one of those replaces a Denon AV receiver to accept a bunch of inputs in various formats (HDMI, phono, optical, etc) including Dolby Atmos and ARC support to drive a multi-room 15.4 speaker system?
  - AdamJacobMuller 1y ago
    Just pick better brands for your receiver. I have an Anthem pre and an LG TV, both of which are blocked from accessing the internet, and I have none of these issues.
    - nirvdrum 1y ago
      I think the point is with Samsung acquiring these other brands there are now fewer options. Denon AVRs have been solid options for home theaters, particularly if you have many different inputs. People buy them because they want a Denon/Marantz. If they wanted to buy Samsung that option is already available. The concern is Samsung will mar the brands, removing semi-affordable, quality options and forcing people that don't want Samsung bloat into potentially even more expensive alternatives. You'd run into the same issue if Samsung acquired your audio equipment manufacturer of choice.
      - wlesieutre 1y ago
        Yes, exactly. There are a couple of companies making home AV hardware. But not a lot of them. And across a lot of industries the different players are all getting gobbled up and turned shitty much faster than new competitors can replace them.
  - iancmceachern 1y ago
    Get an integra pre amp or receiver
    - timc3 1y ago
      Don’t think they are available outside the US.
  - moh_maya 1y ago
    You could perhaps consider looking at some of the class D amps coming out of CN. Remarkable stuff considering the price and power output. SMSL has some good, well reviewed products; as do WiiM and quite a few other brands. The Audio Science Review forum (1) has objective measurement based reviews of many of the newer amps, standalone and integrated. I’m using the SMSL AO300 to drive Boston Acoustics VR3 floor standing speakers in a study, and they’re sound as good as they did when they were on an older Yamaha amp, or a Denon integrated amp. Edited to add: most (none?) of the class D integrated amps can’t do Dolby -(licensing, I suspect, is the main issue here), so you’ll need to get a receiver in the middle for HTS though. Edited post edit (sorry!): turns out Wiim streamers can now do 5.1, so some options are slowly emerging. (2) (1) https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/amplifiers-phono-preamp-and-analog-audio-review.13/ https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/am... (2) https://faq.wiimhome.com/en/support/solutions/articles/72000638917--beta-setting-up-a-wiim-dolby-5-1-surround-sound-system https://faq.wiimhome.com/en/support/solutions/articles/72000...
Mistletoe 1y ago
This is why I love vintage audio. I’m sitting here listening to classical on FM radio on my Marantz 2215B made in the 1970s and it is what you are describing and sublime.
- bigiain 1y ago
  Same. Back in the mid 80s I spent way more than was sensible and bought myself seperate NAD pre/power amps, Boston Acoustic Speakers, and a Rega turntable for my birthday. I not only still have and use all that gear, but have since bought more of the same brands 2nd hand mostly from the same era, so I now have 5.1 surround in my lounge room, and stereo amp/speaker sets in my kitchen, office, bedroom, and guest bedroom - all NAD/Boston Acoustic, and all capable of doing Apple AirPlay via Apple TV or old Airport Expresses. Vintage hifi is great. You will probably need to become the sort of person who can replace all the electrolytic capacitors in your amps and speakers crossovers, or at least know someone who can. And you'll become the sort of person who'll hunt the internet for someone who can ship you replacement drivers for your speakers, styluses and drive belts for your turntable, and hifi grade capacitors (and you'll probably stock pile all of those those). It's at least partially a hobby instead of just appliances you own.
  - hedora 1y ago
    I’d think there would be a market opportunity here. I have an old 70’s amp, and the switches/knobs are a bit noisy. Sure, I spray it down with contact cleaner, and it fixes it for a few years each time, but the dial light bulbs are starting to burn out. Most of its internals are hand soldered and switches /relays/etc that would be cheaper, better and more reliable with modern technology. Even though it was hand wired, it didn’t cost much new (inflation adjusted), so why can’t anyone manufacture something with a similar amplifier but an automated assembly line and better control circuitry (and maybe a rpi header for electronic control) for, say, $1000 in 2025?
    - hakfoo 1y ago
      As someone with a metre-high stack of vintage recievers in his closet, I think a significant part of the appeal is the feelie aspect. If you put the guts of a Marantz 22xx in a black plastic case with a modern RCA logo in it, it would languish for five years in the back of a Goodwill. But the feelies are the hard part. An attractive bespoke case is expensive to build and ship. Some of the stuff (high-grade tuning capacitors) probably simply can't be had in quantity without opening a new production line. I know there are a bunch of DIY kits that claim to be circuit-equivalent to popular vintage amplifier designs, and there's the Akitika range, but they're still not really a turnkey "it's your favourite vintage model, but with zero hours on it"
EnPissant 1y ago
Samsung soundbars are all of the things you asked for.
topbanana 1y ago
I use Meridian standalone active speakers which just take a PCM stream. An HDFury Vertex2 can strip the audio from HDMI
timc3 1y ago
What exactly are you waiting for. I have two Dolby atmos systems, denon receivers, Apple TVs, OSMC boxes on both, and LG Smart TVs disconnected from the internet. Start up time is less than a second.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- ethbr1 1y ago
  This. The correct answer is to never connect anything to the internet that doesn't need to be.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- hsbauauvhabzb 1y ago
  are you telling me the reason my tv turns on slowly is because it has internet access?
  - NhanH 1y ago
    Yes
  - signal11 1y ago
    IMO more than startup times, a reason to not connect your TV to the internet is ACR (automated content recognition). Note that ACR works irrespective of the video source. Old article for background but if anything it’s even more common now: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/18/you-watch-tv-your-tv-watches-back/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/18/you-wat...
  - halgir 1y ago
    Possibly. I have a Samsung TV with all of the associated bloatware. Did a hard reset, never connected to the internet, use it exclusively as a display for my Apple TV. Turns on and off using the Apple TV remote via HDMI-CEC, so I can stow away the bloated Samsung remote. Startup time is now perfectly tolerable.
milesward 1y ago
Check out Schiit Audio.
hapticmonkey 1y ago
AppleTV running Apple Music connected to my Marantz AVR. No ads. No privacy concerns. I get lossless stereo where available and Atmos on selected tracks. It's great.
- DaiPlusPlus 1y ago
  How do you use it without needing a TV or display to navigate the UI?
  - frontalier 1y ago
    you are being unnecessarily disingenuous gp is most likely using a display that quickly boots into "source" mode – think hdmi input
    - DaiPlusPlus 1y ago
      > you are being unnecessarily disingenuous I'm not, honestly. Think of AVR-integrated radio receivers and hi-fi CD players: a typical appliance-grade (non-raster) VFD/LCD display is sufficient for navigating through radio stations and CD tracks; I will admit that Alexa-style voice-control can work quite well for online services like Spotify or Apple Music, but even then I find myself frequently needing to reach for my phone (and wait for Amazon's webview-based Echo app to load) for anything nontrivial. While a good modern TV can show a picture from standby in a few seconds, it "feels wrong" to me to have to turn-on an eye-burningly-bright main living-room TV just to select a song to play.
      - AstralStorm 1y ago
        It also introduces a lot of fragility into the ecosystem. If your TV fails (which does happen sometimes), you're suddenly without access to almost all features of the hardware? Unacceptable.
        ralfd 1y ago
        Unacceptable? How often does that happen (> 10 years?) without one having an old computer lcd from 2016 as backup in the cellar? Or a dirt cheap mini hdmi 7-inch replacement ordered overnight on Amazon? Aside my guess is the Apple TV does usually work “headless” in OP use case with music playing controlled from his phone. One only needs a tv for streaming video (obviously) and I think for initial setup.
robertlagrant 1y ago
> Just like every retailer has embraced usury with their credit card programs What does this mean?
- bluGill 1y ago
  Go to any large retailer and they will ask you to user their branded credit card. They will also ask you do if you want the extended warranty on anything not obviously consumable.
globular-toast 1y ago
> How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experience? For me, I reckon less than 5k overall. JVC DLA-X5000 projector, Yamaha A1020 receiver, Focal Aria 936 speakers, SVS SB1000 sub, Raspberry Pi 2 with Kodi on it, a NAS with 16TiB of storage and gigabit networking to connect it all. All the AV stuff second hand, of course. No load times, no ads, just a system that works for me. I do not accept technology into my life unless it works for me. If the latest nK formats and 1000 channel surround doesn't work without equipment that works for someone else than I'll never have it in my home. Simple as that. I'll read a book instead.
tonyhart7 1y ago
"How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experience? Just like every retailer has embraced usury with their credit card programs, every technology company has decided they are in the data harvesting business." isn't like this our goal here??? I mean we are comment on YC site that produce startup aiming just that
- pembrook 1y ago
  Originally yes, but now this is a complaint forum for pessimistic big tech worker bees to vent their frustrations while never actually having to invest time, money or effort on actually doing anything. Generally though, consumers have already spoken with their wallets on this topic and they have told many thousands of doe-eyed founders loud and clear: “we will happily sacrifice our time and privacy to save a $3, bring on the ads” Hence why YC focuses on B2B Saas for B2B Saas companies who sell to other B2B Saas companies.
  - Goronmon 1y ago
    Originally yes, but now this is a complaint forum for pessimistic big tech worker bees to vent their frustrations while never actually having to invest time, money or effort on actually doing anything. I don't know, going back years ago, if anything it would have been YC figuring how to push ads/bloatware. It would have just been more subtle about the phrasing and meaning behind what was trying to be accomplished, but the underlying 'value extraction' stories were still there. The "entrepreneur" aspect of YC generally was about "enshittification" before that word became more used.
  - immibis 1y ago
    It's fundamentally still a forum for VCs to VC. You see this periodically where some topic comes up that's completely antithetical to VC, and gets quickly flagged or downvoted to oblivion, even though there may be lively discussion. For example, this occurs when open source licenses are being discussed. The remaining undead comments are the ones favouring licenses that favour venture capital interests.
jajko 1y ago
Not sure what you are complaining about, I have Samsungs surround soundbar, they are amazing for the price (apart from fuckup with forced updade bricking the bar, but I'd never ever update soundbar or similar tech if it just works... why? There is never any gain just potential risks, I don't do ebanking via soundbar ffs). My TV is just a rather basic chinese 75" TCL, and I have absolutely 0 zilch ads anywhere apart from actual Google products (youtube of course but thats a terrible experience anywhere without ublock origin or similar, and OS showing on the background in main menu ads for their paid movies - the place I spend maybe 3s during start if at all and they don't even look like ads just background). If I launch straight ie netflix 0 nanoseconds spent seeing ads. If I play from USB there is nothing. And this is rock bottom chinese stuff. Turning on TV which is in sleep mode is like 2s max, another 2s and soundbar is on automatically via eArc. I used to have B&W towers with Pioneer receiver (bought for peanuts, older tech sounds 100% as new one) but then I realized they add friction to whole experience and I prefer a small notch lower sound quality to convenience and surround. Samsung soundbar with that TV does that 100%. Apart from playing music only I don't even notice the difference. Is this maybe region specific behavior? I live in Switzerland, US consumers are widely known to accept way more ads than other western countries, plus there is a lot of wealth in that single market. Have a 10TB movie collection on an external HDD (mostly 1080p x265 rips and few 4K ones) but its less convenient and I have to download new stuff myself. Plus I love standup collection Netflix has. Total price cca 1.5 years ago - cca 1700$ and a proper cinema experience.
mihaaly 1y ago
> How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experience? Beyond the speaker and amplifier of your choice (both dumb! or dumbed down) a few hundreds of USD and couple of weeks or months of learning and tinkering with low cost hardware and open source software for HiFi use. Some Raspberry Pis and matching DAC allowed me to have a very decent experience I needed (around KEF speakers). There were dead-ends, confusions, restarts, dubious or closed down solutions offered but you will rely moslty (not completely) on your own in the end if done right, and not exposed to the mercy of ruthless conglomerate assoles that much.
throwaway81523 1y ago
Thorens 166 turntable, Fischer tube amp from a flea market, and homemade speakers. I left that stuff in storage many years ago and have no idea where it is now. Come to think of it, that had a boot delay too (waiting for the tubes to warm up) but it never really bothered me.
- i_am_proteus 1y ago
  If you aren't running direct-heated triodes, leave the heaters on and switch off the B+ :)
- ghaff 1y ago
  You have to believe that the market for even mid-range audio/home theater gear is rapidly shrinking. I had my house cleared out because of a kitchen fire/smoke mitigation and I'm not sure--even assuming everything is declared OK--how much effort I'm going to put into hooking everything backup as I really didn't use it a lot. (Have a new TV/soundbar/subwoofer in another room.)
fxtentacle 1y ago
I'll try to explain this from the point of view of someone who has tried to bring a bloatware-free hifi system to market: Chinese copies + Amazon = flood of shit It takes years to design, test, build prototypes, measure, re-design, re-build, calibrate, certify and produce a good hifi audio amp. That means you start your product journey with $500k in debt and unless you can show how you're going to sell enough units to recover this, your project is dead before it ever started. You typically need to sell at 8x of your real costs, because shipping companies, import agents, wholesalers and retailers all want (and need) their margins. If I expect to sell 2,000 units per month (which is A LOT already) for 2 years, then I need to add about $10 to my costs per unit to recover the R&D expenses. And that means as long as Amazon is happy to turn a blind eye on IP-infringing blatantly obvious clones that typically even re-use my product images or slogans or brand names ... then my "original" product will be undercut by $10x8 = $80 in price by Chinese clones. They don't have R&D to recoup because the can just buy my product, x-ray the PCB, and then make duplicates. And trying to get Amazon to follow the law is like playing expensive whack-a-mole with lawyers. It won't help to recover money. That means as the manufacturer, I have exactly 1 way left to recover R&D expenses: I lock down the software. And then I either shove ads in your face, or I bully you into a subscription. Or if the ads pay too little, both. I hate the situation as much as you do, but I also see no better way forward. Nowadays, you need to plan for the flood of shitty clones on Amazon a week after launch. (Or in some cases, even before the original product clears import customs.) And that means you treat hardware as cheap and disposable, because your competitors do that and unless you join them, you're at a huge market disadvantage, because the average customer cannot tell the difference between a low-quality and a high-quality capacitor. (And Amazon doesn't care.) https://www.cultofmac.com/news/selfie-stick-iphone-case-gets-cloned-before-it-even-exists https://www.cultofmac.com/news/selfie-stick-iphone-case-gets... (And please note that these guys even had US patents on the product. Didn't help them, though.)
- ChoGGi 1y ago
  > They don't have R&D to recoup because the can just buy my product, x-ray the PCB, and then make duplicates. Too much effort when they can just go to the company making them and get cheaply made copies :)
mvanbaak 1y ago
I hate to be that guy but how on earth do you have a "high-end" system (your words) that does all this? Sure, there is some boot up time to warm everything up, but there are no ads and no user agreements etc on mid to high end systems. Even my entry level system (denon avr, lg c1 oled, appletv4k and ugoos as media players) does not take more then 10 seconds from totally off to showing the menu / plex interface, and no user agreement popups or ads
- trentnix 1y ago
  OP here. My system is very similar to yours. I’ve got a UHD player, XBox, Plex Server, and a half-dozen retro gaming systems in the mix. But apparently I'm not as patient as you (and others that responded) are. I find 10 seconds to be intolerable and unnecessary. I’m old enough to have been spoiled by the analog world where power meant you were ready. Not only is the time-to-wait painful, occasionally the HDMI handshake fails or the TV powered on quicker than the receiver’s signal was output and its input selection “picks” the wrong input or wrong display settings. So now you have to consider the order you’re powering things up, because the TV is “smart” and if you tell it to choose an input that isn’t ready, it’ll self-select one it thinks is ready. And if I’m using HDMI-ARC, which I frequently do when using an over-the-air signal, if the TV powers on sooner than the receiver, the TV falls back to its own speakers. So now I’m stuck navigating the TV menu to get the audio through my SVS speakers instead of the ones in the TV. Occasionally my TV has an “update” and then its apps have updates and then the update presents a new “user agreement” with all the data harvesting options pre-selected. If I don’t use my system frequently, two of the devices in the chain may want to update! And after all that, if I’m watching physical media I then have to wait for the disc to be read and navigate through forced ads or trailers or piracy warnings. If they aren’t forced, I still have to intervene to skip them and get to the menu. But don’t select anything too fast on the menu! It has its own animations it wants you to watch before it will show you what options you have. And all of that whining doesn’t even cover the wasteland of options available to remote control and make sense of the Rube-Goldberg AV system. The best option (Logitech Harmony) bailed leaving consumers with nothing but the Chinese schlock that hollowed out the market in the first place.
  - 1y ago
Spackonewz 1y ago
[flagged]
- itsoktocry 1y ago
  >Retards here just want more connectedness. What besides a storage backend, a UI frontend, and analog audio do you need? Little harsh, but yeah. People are in here saying, "I love controlling receiver through my Apple TV!" That's why we are where we are. Apple may be good right now, but may not be forever. People literally ask for this stuff to be integrated, buying Sonos systems that brick and what not. It's too bad.
cydmax 1y ago
Buy a used Braun A1/A2 amp (100-200$). There are maintenance handbooks online for both. Replace the two main condensators, which cost about 10-20$ each. Buy a pair of Canton GLE 200 or their presuccessors (100-350$). They didn’t change much in the last 20 years. Still very good, neutral and enough bass for a small living room. Hook your Technics 1200 MK2/5 (1000$) with an all round needle (100$) to the Phono-In Cinch connectors. Select your favorite vinyl from your collection, put it on the plate of the 1200. Move the arm on the first track of the vinyl. Enjoy completely analog music without distractions. The A1 boots in under 100ms, so does the Technics 1200. Total costs 1670$. Beats any Sonos etc. setup in sound quality and convenience. Disclaimer: I have booth systems in parallel and I feel disgusted and disappointed every time I have to use the Sonos system now.
cynicalsecurity 1y ago
Why using a TV when you can use a mini PC instead?
elif 1y ago
What TV do you use? I use a Frame and don't have any of the issues you describe in the slightest. The power button turns the TV on with a 0.5 second animation, and immediately I see the Roku interface with no popups or Samsung branding or anything. Probably the ONLY complaint is that by default my washing machine puts an alert on the TV every time it's finished. I would probably find the setting to turn it off but honestly part of me finds it very cool for my washer to creep onto the TV because it knows I'm watching. EDIT: maybe you are using wifi? It's the only thing I can think might be different in my setup. Try running RJ45 and see what happens? All I can say is Works On My Machine unless you add some details
- itfossil 1y ago
  ROFL - Are you seriously telling me a device running Roku software is trouble-free? Sell this lie somewhere else please. Devices running Roku software, TVs especially are a straight up dumpster fire. On top of that, its harvesting the hell out of your data. Stop being a sucker. Toss that Roku powered shit out of the window.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - cj 1y ago
    Apple TV connected via HDMI to a big screen TV not connected to the internet. 2-3 second boot up. No ads. Snappy interface. No complaints. No bloatware. No adware. Why does this solution not work for you? Does your TV not work when you turn off WiFi with an attached Apple TV? I’m confused.
    - itfossil 1y ago
      As it so happens I currently run a Roku TV that is not connected to the internet with an Apple TV attached. However that is not long a term solution and if it ever dies you can be damn sure I'll buy a different television. Roku is breaking things constantly. If you ever have to replace that hardware, it will have more up to date software and your experience will be broken. This will be by design. Even implying that somebody should consider buying Roku hardware at this point is stunningly irresponsible. In the last few weeks they broke HDR. Before that they broke the ability of their TVs to display content properly when using apps on the built-in OS due to some new craptacular frame rate feature they pushed out and have refused to roll back. Thankfully I can work around it on my Apple TV by turning on Game Mode for the input. They are currently testing a wide variety of invasive ad features that you can be damn sure will destroy your experience once they officially roll them out. They harvest every bit of your data and sell it to whomever will pay. Roku is a stunningly objectionable company. On top of all that (as if it wasn't enough), their platform lags behind everybody else. They refuse to license a full range of video codecs so pieces of software like Channels DVR will never work on their platform. Not to mention that when you run a Roku TV that isn't connected to the Internet, you lose the ability to customize various aspects of it. You can't rename the inputs for example. Nobody should ever even imply that somebody should buy a Roku device. They are crap and there is virtually no chance of the company changing course. They are a poster child for enshittification.
bayindirh 1y ago
Not every company does it, or with their whole lineup. Get a Yamaha [0], NAD [1], Rotel [2]? I would have adamantly said AKAI, but they are no more. [0]: https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/index.html https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components... [1]: https://nadelectronics.com/product/c-3050-stereophonic-amplifier/ https://nadelectronics.com/product/c-3050-stereophonic-ampli... [2]: https://www.rotel.com/en-gb/product/a11mkii https://www.rotel.com/en-gb/product/a11mkii
- Interesco 1y ago
  I have a NAD 3030 from ~ the 70's. Very glad to see their new unit keeps (almost exactly) the same look. Great equipment Edit: Immediately after posting this I scrolled down and saw "The C 3050’s industrial design was inspired by the NAD 3030 Stereophonic Amplifier, a 1970s classic" which explains the look!
  - bayindirh 1y ago
    I personally use an Akai AM-2850 which still performs the same sans the lazy VU meters. Mine doesn't even have soldered joints, and still shakes the room with no effort, and has great sound quality. Yesteryear's HiFi equipment was something else.
ryukoposting 1y ago
> How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experience? Not much. Buy used. Buying new stereo equipment is an activity of the wealthy. Everywhere I've ever lived, CraigsList is overrun with excellent used speakers and receivers at reasonable prices. I won't inundate you with brand-flexing, but I'll say I'm very happy with my home theater system. 4K OLED TV, big ol' tower speakers, and a pretty nice home theater unit. All from reputable brands. All used. Under $400 all together. No shitware.
- fsloth 1y ago
  Can agree used speakers offer incredible value. Having an 4k oled TV bundled into $400 package _is_ surprisingly cheap even then imho!
  - intrasight 1y ago
    Looking for used speakers. What makes/models should I be considering. Also gotta add, if my B&W speakers started playing ads at startup, Id be fucking livid!
    - chiefgeek 1y ago
      Sonus Fabers are amazing. Get a pair of Grand Pianos or even Concertos. They need some power though. 6 ohm
    - Beijinger 1y ago
      My speakers are decent: Radiotehnika Audio Goldline 90 ;-)
    - fsloth 1y ago
      My algorithm was ”plan a budget. See what options are available and compare reviews.”. I think the critical thing is that you specify a) what your amplifier is b) how many speakers c) music, movies or both.
- photonthug 1y ago
HenryBemis 1y ago
> Samsung to shove bloatware down our throats Why on earth do you say that? :))) I got a nice Samsung 12" tablet, and a nice Samsung (work) smartphone. After 20-30mins of disabling bloat/crap-ware their batteries last a week on stand-by.
fein 1y ago
For my stereo setup, around $4000 for everything. It's also used for game emulators, kids to watch movies and cartoons, wife to watch whatever she feels like, etc. Projector (Optoma laser) - $1200 110" powered retractable projector screen - $100 Mid tier PC - $600 DAC (Schiit modi 2) - $180 Amp (Behringer A500) - $100 SVS prime towers - $1000 SVS Sub - $750 All of my music is running off Jellyfin. I have a turntable that barely gets used but that's because I don't have enough space for it to keep it out of the reach/ damage radius of my kids. You can of course do this for much less if you don't spend 2 grand on the audio part.
dfxm12 1y ago
High end in what terms? Most options will sound the same (to me? to most?), so the option with the better user experience is really the high end option.
TimByte 1y ago
It feels like you're renting access to your own devices
Beijinger 1y ago
I could offer you some nice speakers. 20k for a pair :-) No Bloatware.
neuralRiot 1y ago
I’ve been into electronics for over 35 years and the basic audio amplifier topology hasn’t changed since the invention of the transistor, the only thing that had been improved is efficiency, beyond that it’s just added features as a selling point. That’s why vintage amplifiers are very sought after.

mcsniff 1y ago

Sonarr, Radarr, Lidard are completely free, no ads, and private. Throw in JellyFin and Kodi and you're set -- no financial cost.

wlesieutre 1y ago
Which one of those replaces a Denon AV receiver to accept a bunch of inputs in various formats (HDMI, phono, optical, etc) including Dolby Atmos and ARC support to drive a multi-room 15.4 speaker system?
- AdamJacobMuller 1y ago
  Just pick better brands for your receiver. I have an Anthem pre and an LG TV, both of which are blocked from accessing the internet, and I have none of these issues.
  - nirvdrum 1y ago
    I think the point is with Samsung acquiring these other brands there are now fewer options. Denon AVRs have been solid options for home theaters, particularly if you have many different inputs. People buy them because they want a Denon/Marantz. If they wanted to buy Samsung that option is already available. The concern is Samsung will mar the brands, removing semi-affordable, quality options and forcing people that don't want Samsung bloat into potentially even more expensive alternatives. You'd run into the same issue if Samsung acquired your audio equipment manufacturer of choice.
    - wlesieutre 1y ago
      Yes, exactly. There are a couple of companies making home AV hardware. But not a lot of them. And across a lot of industries the different players are all getting gobbled up and turned shitty much faster than new competitors can replace them.
- iancmceachern 1y ago
  Get an integra pre amp or receiver
  - timc3 1y ago
    Don’t think they are available outside the US.
- moh_maya 1y ago
  You could perhaps consider looking at some of the class D amps coming out of CN. Remarkable stuff considering the price and power output. SMSL has some good, well reviewed products; as do WiiM and quite a few other brands. The Audio Science Review forum (1) has objective measurement based reviews of many of the newer amps, standalone and integrated. I’m using the SMSL AO300 to drive Boston Acoustics VR3 floor standing speakers in a study, and they’re sound as good as they did when they were on an older Yamaha amp, or a Denon integrated amp. Edited to add: most (none?) of the class D integrated amps can’t do Dolby -(licensing, I suspect, is the main issue here), so you’ll need to get a receiver in the middle for HTS though. Edited post edit (sorry!): turns out Wiim streamers can now do 5.1, so some options are slowly emerging. (2) (1) https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/amplifiers-phono-preamp-and-analog-audio-review.13/ https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/am... (2) https://faq.wiimhome.com/en/support/solutions/articles/72000638917--beta-setting-up-a-wiim-dolby-5-1-surround-sound-system https://faq.wiimhome.com/en/support/solutions/articles/72000...

Mistletoe 1y ago

This is why I love vintage audio. I’m sitting here listening to classical on FM radio on my Marantz 2215B made in the 1970s and it is what you are describing and sublime.

bigiain 1y ago
Same. Back in the mid 80s I spent way more than was sensible and bought myself seperate NAD pre/power amps, Boston Acoustic Speakers, and a Rega turntable for my birthday. I not only still have and use all that gear, but have since bought more of the same brands 2nd hand mostly from the same era, so I now have 5.1 surround in my lounge room, and stereo amp/speaker sets in my kitchen, office, bedroom, and guest bedroom - all NAD/Boston Acoustic, and all capable of doing Apple AirPlay via Apple TV or old Airport Expresses. Vintage hifi is great. You will probably need to become the sort of person who can replace all the electrolytic capacitors in your amps and speakers crossovers, or at least know someone who can. And you'll become the sort of person who'll hunt the internet for someone who can ship you replacement drivers for your speakers, styluses and drive belts for your turntable, and hifi grade capacitors (and you'll probably stock pile all of those those). It's at least partially a hobby instead of just appliances you own.
- hedora 1y ago
  I’d think there would be a market opportunity here. I have an old 70’s amp, and the switches/knobs are a bit noisy. Sure, I spray it down with contact cleaner, and it fixes it for a few years each time, but the dial light bulbs are starting to burn out. Most of its internals are hand soldered and switches /relays/etc that would be cheaper, better and more reliable with modern technology. Even though it was hand wired, it didn’t cost much new (inflation adjusted), so why can’t anyone manufacture something with a similar amplifier but an automated assembly line and better control circuitry (and maybe a rpi header for electronic control) for, say, $1000 in 2025?
  - hakfoo 1y ago
    As someone with a metre-high stack of vintage recievers in his closet, I think a significant part of the appeal is the feelie aspect. If you put the guts of a Marantz 22xx in a black plastic case with a modern RCA logo in it, it would languish for five years in the back of a Goodwill. But the feelies are the hard part. An attractive bespoke case is expensive to build and ship. Some of the stuff (high-grade tuning capacitors) probably simply can't be had in quantity without opening a new production line. I know there are a bunch of DIY kits that claim to be circuit-equivalent to popular vintage amplifier designs, and there's the Akitika range, but they're still not really a turnkey "it's your favourite vintage model, but with zero hours on it"

EnPissant 1y ago

Samsung soundbars are all of the things you asked for.

topbanana 1y ago

I use Meridian standalone active speakers which just take a PCM stream. An HDFury Vertex2 can strip the audio from HDMI

timc3 1y ago

What exactly are you waiting for. I have two Dolby atmos systems, denon receivers, Apple TVs, OSMC boxes on both, and LG Smart TVs disconnected from the internet. Start up time is less than a second.

deleted 1y ago
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ethbr1 1y ago
This. The correct answer is to never connect anything to the internet that doesn't need to be.
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hsbauauvhabzb 1y ago
are you telling me the reason my tv turns on slowly is because it has internet access?
- NhanH 1y ago
  Yes
- signal11 1y ago
  IMO more than startup times, a reason to not connect your TV to the internet is ACR (automated content recognition). Note that ACR works irrespective of the video source. Old article for background but if anything it’s even more common now: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/18/you-watch-tv-your-tv-watches-back/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/18/you-wat...
- halgir 1y ago
  Possibly. I have a Samsung TV with all of the associated bloatware. Did a hard reset, never connected to the internet, use it exclusively as a display for my Apple TV. Turns on and off using the Apple TV remote via HDMI-CEC, so I can stow away the bloated Samsung remote. Startup time is now perfectly tolerable.

milesward 1y ago

Check out Schiit Audio.

hapticmonkey 1y ago

AppleTV running Apple Music connected to my Marantz AVR. No ads. No privacy concerns. I get lossless stereo where available and Atmos on selected tracks. It's great.

DaiPlusPlus 1y ago
How do you use it without needing a TV or display to navigate the UI?
- frontalier 1y ago
  you are being unnecessarily disingenuous gp is most likely using a display that quickly boots into "source" mode – think hdmi input
  - DaiPlusPlus 1y ago
    > you are being unnecessarily disingenuous I'm not, honestly. Think of AVR-integrated radio receivers and hi-fi CD players: a typical appliance-grade (non-raster) VFD/LCD display is sufficient for navigating through radio stations and CD tracks; I will admit that Alexa-style voice-control can work quite well for online services like Spotify or Apple Music, but even then I find myself frequently needing to reach for my phone (and wait for Amazon's webview-based Echo app to load) for anything nontrivial. While a good modern TV can show a picture from standby in a few seconds, it "feels wrong" to me to have to turn-on an eye-burningly-bright main living-room TV just to select a song to play.
    - AstralStorm 1y ago
      It also introduces a lot of fragility into the ecosystem. If your TV fails (which does happen sometimes), you're suddenly without access to almost all features of the hardware? Unacceptable.
      - ralfd 1y ago
        Unacceptable? How often does that happen (> 10 years?) without one having an old computer lcd from 2016 as backup in the cellar? Or a dirt cheap mini hdmi 7-inch replacement ordered overnight on Amazon? Aside my guess is the Apple TV does usually work “headless” in OP use case with music playing controlled from his phone. One only needs a tv for streaming video (obviously) and I think for initial setup.

robertlagrant 1y ago

> Just like every retailer has embraced usury with their credit card programs What does this mean?

bluGill 1y ago
Go to any large retailer and they will ask you to user their branded credit card. They will also ask you do if you want the extended warranty on anything not obviously consumable.

globular-toast 1y ago

> How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experience? For me, I reckon less than 5k overall. JVC DLA-X5000 projector, Yamaha A1020 receiver, Focal Aria 936 speakers, SVS SB1000 sub, Raspberry Pi 2 with Kodi on it, a NAS with 16TiB of storage and gigabit networking to connect it all. All the AV stuff second hand, of course. No load times, no ads, just a system that works for me. I do not accept technology into my life unless it works for me. If the latest nK formats and 1000 channel surround doesn't work without equipment that works for someone else than I'll never have it in my home. Simple as that. I'll read a book instead.

tonyhart7 1y ago

"How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experience? Just like every retailer has embraced usury with their credit card programs, every technology company has decided they are in the data harvesting business." isn't like this our goal here??? I mean we are comment on YC site that produce startup aiming just that

pembrook 1y ago
Originally yes, but now this is a complaint forum for pessimistic big tech worker bees to vent their frustrations while never actually having to invest time, money or effort on actually doing anything. Generally though, consumers have already spoken with their wallets on this topic and they have told many thousands of doe-eyed founders loud and clear: “we will happily sacrifice our time and privacy to save a $3, bring on the ads” Hence why YC focuses on B2B Saas for B2B Saas companies who sell to other B2B Saas companies.
- Goronmon 1y ago
  Originally yes, but now this is a complaint forum for pessimistic big tech worker bees to vent their frustrations while never actually having to invest time, money or effort on actually doing anything. I don't know, going back years ago, if anything it would have been YC figuring how to push ads/bloatware. It would have just been more subtle about the phrasing and meaning behind what was trying to be accomplished, but the underlying 'value extraction' stories were still there. The "entrepreneur" aspect of YC generally was about "enshittification" before that word became more used.
- immibis 1y ago
  It's fundamentally still a forum for VCs to VC. You see this periodically where some topic comes up that's completely antithetical to VC, and gets quickly flagged or downvoted to oblivion, even though there may be lively discussion. For example, this occurs when open source licenses are being discussed. The remaining undead comments are the ones favouring licenses that favour venture capital interests.

jajko 1y ago

Not sure what you are complaining about, I have Samsungs surround soundbar, they are amazing for the price (apart from fuckup with forced updade bricking the bar, but I'd never ever update soundbar or similar tech if it just works... why? There is never any gain just potential risks, I don't do ebanking via soundbar ffs). My TV is just a rather basic chinese 75" TCL, and I have absolutely 0 zilch ads anywhere apart from actual Google products (youtube of course but thats a terrible experience anywhere without ublock origin or similar, and OS showing on the background in main menu ads for their paid movies - the place I spend maybe 3s during start if at all and they don't even look like ads just background). If I launch straight ie netflix 0 nanoseconds spent seeing ads. If I play from USB there is nothing. And this is rock bottom chinese stuff. Turning on TV which is in sleep mode is like 2s max, another 2s and soundbar is on automatically via eArc. I used to have B&W towers with Pioneer receiver (bought for peanuts, older tech sounds 100% as new one) but then I realized they add friction to whole experience and I prefer a small notch lower sound quality to convenience and surround. Samsung soundbar with that TV does that 100%. Apart from playing music only I don't even notice the difference. Is this maybe region specific behavior? I live in Switzerland, US consumers are widely known to accept way more ads than other western countries, plus there is a lot of wealth in that single market. Have a 10TB movie collection on an external HDD (mostly 1080p x265 rips and few 4K ones) but its less convenient and I have to download new stuff myself. Plus I love standup collection Netflix has. Total price cca 1.5 years ago - cca 1700$ and a proper cinema experience.

mihaaly 1y ago

> How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experience? Beyond the speaker and amplifier of your choice (both dumb! or dumbed down) a few hundreds of USD and couple of weeks or months of learning and tinkering with low cost hardware and open source software for HiFi use. Some Raspberry Pis and matching DAC allowed me to have a very decent experience I needed (around KEF speakers). There were dead-ends, confusions, restarts, dubious or closed down solutions offered but you will rely moslty (not completely) on your own in the end if done right, and not exposed to the mercy of ruthless conglomerate assoles that much.

throwaway81523 1y ago

Thorens 166 turntable, Fischer tube amp from a flea market, and homemade speakers. I left that stuff in storage many years ago and have no idea where it is now. Come to think of it, that had a boot delay too (waiting for the tubes to warm up) but it never really bothered me.

i_am_proteus 1y ago
If you aren't running direct-heated triodes, leave the heaters on and switch off the B+ :)
ghaff 1y ago
You have to believe that the market for even mid-range audio/home theater gear is rapidly shrinking. I had my house cleared out because of a kitchen fire/smoke mitigation and I'm not sure--even assuming everything is declared OK--how much effort I'm going to put into hooking everything backup as I really didn't use it a lot. (Have a new TV/soundbar/subwoofer in another room.)

fxtentacle 1y ago

I'll try to explain this from the point of view of someone who has tried to bring a bloatware-free hifi system to market: Chinese copies + Amazon = flood of shit It takes years to design, test, build prototypes, measure, re-design, re-build, calibrate, certify and produce a good hifi audio amp. That means you start your product journey with $500k in debt and unless you can show how you're going to sell enough units to recover this, your project is dead before it ever started. You typically need to sell at 8x of your real costs, because shipping companies, import agents, wholesalers and retailers all want (and need) their margins. If I expect to sell 2,000 units per month (which is A LOT already) for 2 years, then I need to add about $10 to my costs per unit to recover the R&D expenses. And that means as long as Amazon is happy to turn a blind eye on IP-infringing blatantly obvious clones that typically even re-use my product images or slogans or brand names ... then my "original" product will be undercut by $10x8 = $80 in price by Chinese clones. They don't have R&D to recoup because the can just buy my product, x-ray the PCB, and then make duplicates. And trying to get Amazon to follow the law is like playing expensive whack-a-mole with lawyers. It won't help to recover money. That means as the manufacturer, I have exactly 1 way left to recover R&D expenses: I lock down the software. And then I either shove ads in your face, or I bully you into a subscription. Or if the ads pay too little, both. I hate the situation as much as you do, but I also see no better way forward. Nowadays, you need to plan for the flood of shitty clones on Amazon a week after launch. (Or in some cases, even before the original product clears import customs.) And that means you treat hardware as cheap and disposable, because your competitors do that and unless you join them, you're at a huge market disadvantage, because the average customer cannot tell the difference between a low-quality and a high-quality capacitor. (And Amazon doesn't care.) https://www.cultofmac.com/news/selfie-stick-iphone-case-gets-cloned-before-it-even-exists https://www.cultofmac.com/news/selfie-stick-iphone-case-gets... (And please note that these guys even had US patents on the product. Didn't help them, though.)

ChoGGi 1y ago
> They don't have R&D to recoup because the can just buy my product, x-ray the PCB, and then make duplicates. Too much effort when they can just go to the company making them and get cheaply made copies :)

mvanbaak 1y ago

I hate to be that guy but how on earth do you have a "high-end" system (your words) that does all this? Sure, there is some boot up time to warm everything up, but there are no ads and no user agreements etc on mid to high end systems. Even my entry level system (denon avr, lg c1 oled, appletv4k and ugoos as media players) does not take more then 10 seconds from totally off to showing the menu / plex interface, and no user agreement popups or ads

trentnix 1y ago
OP here. My system is very similar to yours. I’ve got a UHD player, XBox, Plex Server, and a half-dozen retro gaming systems in the mix. But apparently I'm not as patient as you (and others that responded) are. I find 10 seconds to be intolerable and unnecessary. I’m old enough to have been spoiled by the analog world where power meant you were ready. Not only is the time-to-wait painful, occasionally the HDMI handshake fails or the TV powered on quicker than the receiver’s signal was output and its input selection “picks” the wrong input or wrong display settings. So now you have to consider the order you’re powering things up, because the TV is “smart” and if you tell it to choose an input that isn’t ready, it’ll self-select one it thinks is ready. And if I’m using HDMI-ARC, which I frequently do when using an over-the-air signal, if the TV powers on sooner than the receiver, the TV falls back to its own speakers. So now I’m stuck navigating the TV menu to get the audio through my SVS speakers instead of the ones in the TV. Occasionally my TV has an “update” and then its apps have updates and then the update presents a new “user agreement” with all the data harvesting options pre-selected. If I don’t use my system frequently, two of the devices in the chain may want to update! And after all that, if I’m watching physical media I then have to wait for the disc to be read and navigate through forced ads or trailers or piracy warnings. If they aren’t forced, I still have to intervene to skip them and get to the menu. But don’t select anything too fast on the menu! It has its own animations it wants you to watch before it will show you what options you have. And all of that whining doesn’t even cover the wasteland of options available to remote control and make sense of the Rube-Goldberg AV system. The best option (Logitech Harmony) bailed leaving consumers with nothing but the Chinese schlock that hollowed out the market in the first place.
- 1y ago

Spackonewz 1y ago

[flagged]

itsoktocry 1y ago
>Retards here just want more connectedness. What besides a storage backend, a UI frontend, and analog audio do you need? Little harsh, but yeah. People are in here saying, "I love controlling receiver through my Apple TV!" That's why we are where we are. Apple may be good right now, but may not be forever. People literally ask for this stuff to be integrated, buying Sonos systems that brick and what not. It's too bad.

cydmax 1y ago

Buy a used Braun A1/A2 amp (100-200$). There are maintenance handbooks online for both. Replace the two main condensators, which cost about 10-20$ each. Buy a pair of Canton GLE 200 or their presuccessors (100-350$). They didn’t change much in the last 20 years. Still very good, neutral and enough bass for a small living room. Hook your Technics 1200 MK2/5 (1000$) with an all round needle (100$) to the Phono-In Cinch connectors. Select your favorite vinyl from your collection, put it on the plate of the 1200. Move the arm on the first track of the vinyl. Enjoy completely analog music without distractions. The A1 boots in under 100ms, so does the Technics 1200. Total costs 1670$. Beats any Sonos etc. setup in sound quality and convenience. Disclaimer: I have booth systems in parallel and I feel disgusted and disappointed every time I have to use the Sonos system now.

cynicalsecurity 1y ago

Why using a TV when you can use a mini PC instead?

elif 1y ago

What TV do you use? I use a Frame and don't have any of the issues you describe in the slightest. The power button turns the TV on with a 0.5 second animation, and immediately I see the Roku interface with no popups or Samsung branding or anything. Probably the ONLY complaint is that by default my washing machine puts an alert on the TV every time it's finished. I would probably find the setting to turn it off but honestly part of me finds it very cool for my washer to creep onto the TV because it knows I'm watching. EDIT: maybe you are using wifi? It's the only thing I can think might be different in my setup. Try running RJ45 and see what happens? All I can say is Works On My Machine unless you add some details

itfossil 1y ago
ROFL - Are you seriously telling me a device running Roku software is trouble-free? Sell this lie somewhere else please. Devices running Roku software, TVs especially are a straight up dumpster fire. On top of that, its harvesting the hell out of your data. Stop being a sucker. Toss that Roku powered shit out of the window.
- deleted 1y ago
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- cj 1y ago
  Apple TV connected via HDMI to a big screen TV not connected to the internet. 2-3 second boot up. No ads. Snappy interface. No complaints. No bloatware. No adware. Why does this solution not work for you? Does your TV not work when you turn off WiFi with an attached Apple TV? I’m confused.
  - itfossil 1y ago
    As it so happens I currently run a Roku TV that is not connected to the internet with an Apple TV attached. However that is not long a term solution and if it ever dies you can be damn sure I'll buy a different television. Roku is breaking things constantly. If you ever have to replace that hardware, it will have more up to date software and your experience will be broken. This will be by design. Even implying that somebody should consider buying Roku hardware at this point is stunningly irresponsible. In the last few weeks they broke HDR. Before that they broke the ability of their TVs to display content properly when using apps on the built-in OS due to some new craptacular frame rate feature they pushed out and have refused to roll back. Thankfully I can work around it on my Apple TV by turning on Game Mode for the input. They are currently testing a wide variety of invasive ad features that you can be damn sure will destroy your experience once they officially roll them out. They harvest every bit of your data and sell it to whomever will pay. Roku is a stunningly objectionable company. On top of all that (as if it wasn't enough), their platform lags behind everybody else. They refuse to license a full range of video codecs so pieces of software like Channels DVR will never work on their platform. Not to mention that when you run a Roku TV that isn't connected to the Internet, you lose the ability to customize various aspects of it. You can't rename the inputs for example. Nobody should ever even imply that somebody should buy a Roku device. They are crap and there is virtually no chance of the company changing course. They are a poster child for enshittification.

bayindirh 1y ago

Not every company does it, or with their whole lineup. Get a Yamaha [0], NAD [1], Rotel [2]? I would have adamantly said AKAI, but they are no more. [0]: https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/index.html https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components... [1]: https://nadelectronics.com/product/c-3050-stereophonic-amplifier/ https://nadelectronics.com/product/c-3050-stereophonic-ampli... [2]: https://www.rotel.com/en-gb/product/a11mkii https://www.rotel.com/en-gb/product/a11mkii

Interesco 1y ago
I have a NAD 3030 from ~ the 70's. Very glad to see their new unit keeps (almost exactly) the same look. Great equipment Edit: Immediately after posting this I scrolled down and saw "The C 3050’s industrial design was inspired by the NAD 3030 Stereophonic Amplifier, a 1970s classic" which explains the look!
- bayindirh 1y ago
  I personally use an Akai AM-2850 which still performs the same sans the lazy VU meters. Mine doesn't even have soldered joints, and still shakes the room with no effort, and has great sound quality. Yesteryear's HiFi equipment was something else.

ryukoposting 1y ago

> How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experience? Not much. Buy used. Buying new stereo equipment is an activity of the wealthy. Everywhere I've ever lived, CraigsList is overrun with excellent used speakers and receivers at reasonable prices. I won't inundate you with brand-flexing, but I'll say I'm very happy with my home theater system. 4K OLED TV, big ol' tower speakers, and a pretty nice home theater unit. All from reputable brands. All used. Under $400 all together. No shitware.

fsloth 1y ago
Can agree used speakers offer incredible value. Having an 4k oled TV bundled into $400 package _is_ surprisingly cheap even then imho!
- intrasight 1y ago
  Looking for used speakers. What makes/models should I be considering. Also gotta add, if my B&W speakers started playing ads at startup, Id be fucking livid!
  - chiefgeek 1y ago
    Sonus Fabers are amazing. Get a pair of Grand Pianos or even Concertos. They need some power though. 6 ohm
  - Beijinger 1y ago
    My speakers are decent: Radiotehnika Audio Goldline 90 ;-)
  - fsloth 1y ago
    My algorithm was ”plan a budget. See what options are available and compare reviews.”. I think the critical thing is that you specify a) what your amplifier is b) how many speakers c) music, movies or both.
photonthug 1y ago

HenryBemis 1y ago

> Samsung to shove bloatware down our throats Why on earth do you say that? :))) I got a nice Samsung 12" tablet, and a nice Samsung (work) smartphone. After 20-30mins of disabling bloat/crap-ware their batteries last a week on stand-by.

fein 1y ago

For my stereo setup, around $4000 for everything. It's also used for game emulators, kids to watch movies and cartoons, wife to watch whatever she feels like, etc. Projector (Optoma laser) - $1200 110" powered retractable projector screen - $100 Mid tier PC - $600 DAC (Schiit modi 2) - $180 Amp (Behringer A500) - $100 SVS prime towers - $1000 SVS Sub - $750 All of my music is running off Jellyfin. I have a turntable that barely gets used but that's because I don't have enough space for it to keep it out of the reach/ damage radius of my kids. You can of course do this for much less if you don't spend 2 grand on the audio part.

dfxm12 1y ago

High end in what terms? Most options will sound the same (to me? to most?), so the option with the better user experience is really the high end option.

TimByte 1y ago

It feels like you're renting access to your own devices

Beijinger 1y ago

I could offer you some nice speakers. 20k for a pair :-) No Bloatware.

neuralRiot 1y ago

I’ve been into electronics for over 35 years and the basic audio amplifier topology hasn’t changed since the invention of the transistor, the only thing that had been improved is efficiency, beyond that it’s just added features as a selling point. That’s why vintage amplifiers are very sought after.