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There's also a trial of "platooning" of driverless trucks on I-70 in Ohio and Indiana: https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbishop1/2025/04/24/ease-logistics-dep

There's also a trial of "platooning" of driverless trucks on I-70 in Ohio and Indiana: https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbishop1/2025/04/24/ease-logistics-deploys-truck-platoons-on-i-70-in-ohio-and-indiana/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbishop1/2025/04/24/ease-... A "drivered" lead truck is leading one or more driverless trucks in this case. I drive the stretch of highway these trucks are on fairly regularly. I don't know that I've seen a group of them yet but I'm keeping my eye out. I'm probably just showing my age, but I like the idea of a "drivered" truck leading driverless trucks versus a completely autonomous system. It's similar to my attitude on crewed spaceflight-- I like the idea of the ingenuity and capacity for independent thought supervising an automated systems, versus autonomous automated systems.

EsotericAlgo 1y ago
This reminds me of an oft recommended book "Digital Apollo". One of the driving topics is the human interaction component and the difference in designing a fully automated system versus one that is designed with an operator that can intervene. If I recall correctly, the book presents a dichotomy between the rocketeers and pilots (automate entirely and strap people on for a ride vs design a system controlled by a human). I think they both have their place, but I think acknowledging it as a system design choice is so helpful even in basic business processes (how will I handle exceptions, how will the person remember to handle a rare exception). I find myself thinking of this problem frequently. We have lots of modern words for it like observability but I think that removes one a bit from the actual problem.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> A "drivered" lead truck is leading one or more driverless trucks in this case My bet is this goes nowhere. It’s a horseless carriage that doesn’t have enough time to pay itself back versus fully-automated platoons with remote back-up.
- EvanAnderson 1y ago
  It seems like there's an aerodynamic advantage to the platoons. Placing an autonomous truck in the lead of one of these platoons, down the road, seems like a reasonable "upgrade" strategy.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > Placing an autonomous truck in the lead of one of these platoons, down the road, seems like a reasonable "upgrade" strategy Sure. I just don’t see the time-to-market advantage of starting with a human lead outpacing the core technology advantage of being fully autonomous from the get go. (Counterpoint: Waymo using Uber to manage the front end in Atlanta.)
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - dmurray 1y ago
      But the company that figures out platooning can also work on self-driving, or can partner with or sell itself to the company that does figure out self-driving. Working on platooning - assuming it's a more or less viable business idea on its own - doesn't need to be a distraction that prevents anyone from developing fully autonomous trucks.
  - anigbrowl 1y ago
    Right up until there's an accident and the lead truck suddenly has to slam on the brakes. Depending on the length of the 'platoon' and traffic density, that could get really messy really fast.
    - bee_rider 1y ago
      All the trucks should have their own set of brakes, so the stopping distance should be similar for all of them, right? Unless the front truck is actually hitting something, causing it to slow down more than the following trucks (and then quickly turn into a pancake).
recursivedoubts 1y ago
next level would be to hook these "platoons" together physically and then centralize the propulsion in a super efficient package. And then we could move them off the highways and onto specialized "tracks" that guarantee they don't deviate from the planned routes. speculative, alien technology, admittedly, but some day our scientists will figure it out i bet!
- ethbr1 1y ago
  Hmm. That sounds like it might lead to a monopolization of these tracks, as networks consolidate, and then ultimately evolve into a stagnant industry more focused on cutting costs than innovating...
  - recursivedoubts 1y ago
    dammit
  - xracy 1y ago
    I suspect that's why a competent government might invest more in these tracks as they might contribute a lot to delivery infrastructure. Especially in a consumer-based economy where shipping goods is important.
    - krapp 1y ago
      Let me know where you can find a competent government not currently trying to burn down its own consumer-based economy with tariffs and xenophobia and which doesn't consider trains a communist plot. And whether they take American passports.
      - robocat 1y ago
        I'm not sure governments learn by seeing the mistakes of other governments. But consecutive New Zealand governments have made some big mistakes. Capitalist party sold the national rail to an Australian company because rail was inefficient and costing a ton. Privately run cut back staff significantly. A few years later the story was that that was failing privately run, so the socialist party bought it back at exhorbitant cost. Now current governmentis trying to sort out a massive budget blow-out to get "rail" ferries between North and South Islands working (roll-on roll-off). The private ferry (Bluebridge) is doing okay I think. I believe the lesson is that rail sucks here, economically speaking (whether privately run or publicly run). Unfortunately old voters love rail so the politicians pander to them.
istjohn 1y ago
Someone should develop an ad-hoc platooning network for truckers. Install a platooning cruise control package on your rig and then get an alert on your dash when another truck in the network is in your vicinity looking to platoon. Lock in the cruise control behind the lead vehicle, and the app automatically calculates the fuel savings and divides the savings equally between the operators. Edit: Various sources say that platooning can cut fuel use by 4-15%.
mulmen 1y ago
> I'm probably just showing my age, but I like the idea of a "drivered" truck leading driverless trucks versus a completely autonomous system. It's similar to my attitude on crewed spaceflight-- I like the idea of the ingenuity and capacity for independent thought supervising an automated systems, versus autonomous automated systems. Great example because spacecraft are fully autonomous. The weakest link in that platoon is the driver.
- aerostable_slug 1y ago
  Precious few drunk drivers on orbit. Or activists blocking traffic, or any number of other interesting situations. Also, it eases the pain of introducing automation by removing a major roadblock to incremental adoption. With the Pareto Principle in mind, get rid of most of the drivers relatively quickly, then work on the holdout cases.
  - mulmen 1y ago
    Thise are just obstructions. Call a waymo and experience it for yourself. Humans can’t achieve that level of awareness.
Animats 1y ago
> There's also a trial of "platooning" That's been tried before. See Demo 97, when CALTRANS had a demo of self-driving.[1] Worked OK, but took a lot of roadside equipment, like a railroad. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlZEeIC_2lI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlZEeIC_2lI
- coolspot 1y ago
  1997 was ten million years ago. Waymo doesn’t require any roadside equipment.
o11c 1y ago
That seems likely to cause problems with drivers trying to merge.
umbra07 1y ago
> I'm probably just showing my age, but I like the idea of a "drivered" truck leading driverless trucks versus a completely autonomous system. It's similar to my attitude on crewed spaceflight-- I like the idea of the ingenuity and capacity for independent thought supervising an automated systems, versus autonomous automated systems. Did you read a lot of classic sci-fi growing up? This sounds very I, Robot.
seanmcdirmid 1y ago
Wouldn’t remote monitoring be better, or the monitor is in the lead truck that is also driverless, monitoring the other trucks in the platoon? Seriously, we are getting closer to shadowrun rigger territory, but without the neural implants that would have put us deeper in the loop.
john2x 1y ago
Would piracy become a problem in this case? Pirates would only have to deal with one lonely driver to get to multipe trucks’ worth of goods.
- Waterluvian 1y ago
  The return of the highwayman is exactly what this century needs next. But in seriousness, what’s the next step? You drive off with five semi trucks worth of stuff? It seems like it’s just a worse way to steal trucks. Especially autonomous trucks that are going to be very well-instrumented and remote accessible.
  - morsch 1y ago
    I mean. https://a-american.com/land-pirates-robbing-from-la-trains/ https://a-american.com/land-pirates-robbing-from-la-trains/
JKCalhoun 1y ago
Completely driverless and I wonder when we’ll read about the first case of truck cargo piracy.
- stubish 1y ago
  Its probably easier to hijack a truck with a driver, because you can bribe drivers to be the inside guy.

EsotericAlgo 1y ago

This reminds me of an oft recommended book "Digital Apollo". One of the driving topics is the human interaction component and the difference in designing a fully automated system versus one that is designed with an operator that can intervene. If I recall correctly, the book presents a dichotomy between the rocketeers and pilots (automate entirely and strap people on for a ride vs design a system controlled by a human). I think they both have their place, but I think acknowledging it as a system design choice is so helpful even in basic business processes (how will I handle exceptions, how will the person remember to handle a rare exception). I find myself thinking of this problem frequently. We have lots of modern words for it like observability but I think that removes one a bit from the actual problem.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> A "drivered" lead truck is leading one or more driverless trucks in this case My bet is this goes nowhere. It’s a horseless carriage that doesn’t have enough time to pay itself back versus fully-automated platoons with remote back-up.

EvanAnderson 1y ago
It seems like there's an aerodynamic advantage to the platoons. Placing an autonomous truck in the lead of one of these platoons, down the road, seems like a reasonable "upgrade" strategy.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > Placing an autonomous truck in the lead of one of these platoons, down the road, seems like a reasonable "upgrade" strategy Sure. I just don’t see the time-to-market advantage of starting with a human lead outpacing the core technology advantage of being fully autonomous from the get go. (Counterpoint: Waymo using Uber to manage the front end in Atlanta.)
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - dmurray 1y ago
    But the company that figures out platooning can also work on self-driving, or can partner with or sell itself to the company that does figure out self-driving. Working on platooning - assuming it's a more or less viable business idea on its own - doesn't need to be a distraction that prevents anyone from developing fully autonomous trucks.
- anigbrowl 1y ago
  Right up until there's an accident and the lead truck suddenly has to slam on the brakes. Depending on the length of the 'platoon' and traffic density, that could get really messy really fast.
  - bee_rider 1y ago
    All the trucks should have their own set of brakes, so the stopping distance should be similar for all of them, right? Unless the front truck is actually hitting something, causing it to slow down more than the following trucks (and then quickly turn into a pancake).

recursivedoubts 1y ago

next level would be to hook these "platoons" together physically and then centralize the propulsion in a super efficient package. And then we could move them off the highways and onto specialized "tracks" that guarantee they don't deviate from the planned routes. speculative, alien technology, admittedly, but some day our scientists will figure it out i bet!

ethbr1 1y ago
Hmm. That sounds like it might lead to a monopolization of these tracks, as networks consolidate, and then ultimately evolve into a stagnant industry more focused on cutting costs than innovating...
- recursivedoubts 1y ago
  dammit
- xracy 1y ago
  I suspect that's why a competent government might invest more in these tracks as they might contribute a lot to delivery infrastructure. Especially in a consumer-based economy where shipping goods is important.
  - krapp 1y ago
    Let me know where you can find a competent government not currently trying to burn down its own consumer-based economy with tariffs and xenophobia and which doesn't consider trains a communist plot. And whether they take American passports.
    - robocat 1y ago
      I'm not sure governments learn by seeing the mistakes of other governments. But consecutive New Zealand governments have made some big mistakes. Capitalist party sold the national rail to an Australian company because rail was inefficient and costing a ton. Privately run cut back staff significantly. A few years later the story was that that was failing privately run, so the socialist party bought it back at exhorbitant cost. Now current governmentis trying to sort out a massive budget blow-out to get "rail" ferries between North and South Islands working (roll-on roll-off). The private ferry (Bluebridge) is doing okay I think. I believe the lesson is that rail sucks here, economically speaking (whether privately run or publicly run). Unfortunately old voters love rail so the politicians pander to them.

istjohn 1y ago

Someone should develop an ad-hoc platooning network for truckers. Install a platooning cruise control package on your rig and then get an alert on your dash when another truck in the network is in your vicinity looking to platoon. Lock in the cruise control behind the lead vehicle, and the app automatically calculates the fuel savings and divides the savings equally between the operators. Edit: Various sources say that platooning can cut fuel use by 4-15%.

mulmen 1y ago

> I'm probably just showing my age, but I like the idea of a "drivered" truck leading driverless trucks versus a completely autonomous system. It's similar to my attitude on crewed spaceflight-- I like the idea of the ingenuity and capacity for independent thought supervising an automated systems, versus autonomous automated systems. Great example because spacecraft are fully autonomous. The weakest link in that platoon is the driver.

aerostable_slug 1y ago
Precious few drunk drivers on orbit. Or activists blocking traffic, or any number of other interesting situations. Also, it eases the pain of introducing automation by removing a major roadblock to incremental adoption. With the Pareto Principle in mind, get rid of most of the drivers relatively quickly, then work on the holdout cases.
- mulmen 1y ago
  Thise are just obstructions. Call a waymo and experience it for yourself. Humans can’t achieve that level of awareness.

Animats 1y ago

> There's also a trial of "platooning" That's been tried before. See Demo 97, when CALTRANS had a demo of self-driving.[1] Worked OK, but took a lot of roadside equipment, like a railroad. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlZEeIC_2lI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlZEeIC_2lI

coolspot 1y ago
1997 was ten million years ago. Waymo doesn’t require any roadside equipment.

o11c 1y ago

That seems likely to cause problems with drivers trying to merge.

umbra07 1y ago

> I'm probably just showing my age, but I like the idea of a "drivered" truck leading driverless trucks versus a completely autonomous system. It's similar to my attitude on crewed spaceflight-- I like the idea of the ingenuity and capacity for independent thought supervising an automated systems, versus autonomous automated systems. Did you read a lot of classic sci-fi growing up? This sounds very I, Robot.

seanmcdirmid 1y ago

Wouldn’t remote monitoring be better, or the monitor is in the lead truck that is also driverless, monitoring the other trucks in the platoon? Seriously, we are getting closer to shadowrun rigger territory, but without the neural implants that would have put us deeper in the loop.

john2x 1y ago

Would piracy become a problem in this case? Pirates would only have to deal with one lonely driver to get to multipe trucks’ worth of goods.

Waterluvian 1y ago
The return of the highwayman is exactly what this century needs next. But in seriousness, what’s the next step? You drive off with five semi trucks worth of stuff? It seems like it’s just a worse way to steal trucks. Especially autonomous trucks that are going to be very well-instrumented and remote accessible.
- morsch 1y ago
  I mean. https://a-american.com/land-pirates-robbing-from-la-trains/ https://a-american.com/land-pirates-robbing-from-la-trains/

JKCalhoun 1y ago

Completely driverless and I wonder when we’ll read about the first case of truck cargo piracy.

stubish 1y ago
Its probably easier to hijack a truck with a driver, because you can bribe drivers to be the inside guy.