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I wish this hadn't happened. I wonder what level of compartmentalisation inside DHS means they didn't see this as having sufficient downsides? I ask this, bec

• hackyhacky 2y ago
  > I wonder what level of compartmentalisation inside DHS means they didn't see this as having sufficient downsides? This was not a carefully-weighed decision based on a cost-benefit analysis. This was a political order, consistent with the administration's policy of "cut everything, recklessly, indiscriminately."
  • tmpz22 2y ago
    Destroy, destroy, destroy. Promise to rebuild but don't. Take it all.
    • cantrecallmypwd 2y ago
      Vampire capitalism. They want civilization to break down so they can offer a solution for profit. The enemies of all people and life on the planet are a tiny group of oligarchs and their supplicants.
      • 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
        Not unlike the manga Berserk
      • CamperBob2 2y ago
        This isn't capitalism, any more than arson, burglary, or extortion is capitalism. Get some new material.
        • tigerBL00D 2y ago
          To be fair, we don't yet know how capitalism ends.
          • CamperBob2 2y ago
            We know how everything else does, though.
            • johnnyanmac 2y ago
              Heat death of the universe?
        • Nevermark 2y ago
          I agree, given the right definition of “capitalism”. Unfortunately “capitalism” has two quite different meanings. Which are rarely clarified in use. Capitalism with a big C, a too common overarching ideology, gets bent to mean whatever the greedy, unethical and rich want it to mean so they can get more money. But small c capitalism, evolving from both practical and ethical foundations, is a system so useful it has multiplied the benefits of civilization. But it is just one such system. It can’t do everything, it needs other independent systems (justice, dispute resolution, rules of clarity, risk & trust limiting systems, for starters) to work, and extending it to places it doesn’t work causes great harm. (Like when perversely applied to those enabling systems, in big C form, as is happening now.)
        • roughly 2y ago
          > any more than arson, burglary, or extortion is capitalism Indeed.
        • GuinansEyebrows 2y ago
          Hah. I’ve been hearing this No-True-Scotsman for Capitalism for decades now. It’s what we’ve got and is widely understood as capitalism. I won’t repeat your last sentence but the sentiment is similar.
          • 2y ago
    • chris_wot 2y ago
      So much for the wunderkinds in DOGE.
      • sitkack 2y ago
        @bigballs, please save U.S.
        • deleted 2y ago
          [deleted]
      • drivingmenuts 2y ago
        Given that the Kids at DOGE are all computer experts, this reeks of a calculated move.
        • consp 2y ago
          I think expert is not the right word for what looks like mostly rookies.
        • krferriter 2y ago
          Absolutely not. They are not broadly experts, and they are not making these decisions after careful consideration, as evidenced by their continual acts of stupidity and basic errors and cutting things despite having no idea what it is they are cutting. Musk got in an argument with someone who said DOGE cut funding for a cancer treatment program, and Musk was calling the person a liar, and the person provided evidence and Musk admitted it was an accident. They are a clown car of idiots who vastly overestimate their own knowledge and underestimate how much good the government actually does. They think they can just slash and burn and there will be no negative consequences because they think the government is worthless.
          • chris_wot 2y ago
            Until, like Ayn Rand, they actually need the government. Then they'll be complaining how the government doesn't provide services.
    • Cthulhu_ 2y ago
      Did they promise to rebuild? If I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt (which I hate), it's a shotgun approach; cut things relentlessly and see what falls apart. Chaos engineering applied to a country and / or the world.
      • willy_k 2y ago
        That’s exactly what it is, and they said as much repeatedly while campaigning. Voters, in their zealotry against the perceived status quo, failed to realize how much of what we have right now you don’t want to cut recklessly, as well as just how reckless the people that they were choosing to do that job were.
        • coldpie 2y ago
          > in their zealotry against the perceived status quo, Perceived, not actual, because spreading lies and misinformation is what makes the most money for the ad sellers that make up 90% of our industry.
      • watwut 2y ago
        There are various glorious futures floating around about how this will make America better, stronger, more independent.
  • SecretDreams 2y ago
    > cut everything, recklessly, indiscriminately Mostly discriminately, tbh.
    • MiguelX413 2y ago
      [flagged]
      • SecretDreams 2y ago
        I can't tell what argument you're making within the context of my post? The OP said indiscriminately, which means they're cutting uniformly across the board. I responded with "mostly discriminately" which means they're more selectively cutting based on prejudice. You then linked me a data point where you show they cut funding because it has the word "homo" in it and tell me to "get a hold of myself".. but your link would directly support what I've said?
        • dTal 2y ago
          It is clear from context that the original comment is using "indiscriminately" in a sense of "without due care; thoughtlessly". Your first reply comes across as simply contradicting it, i.e. asserting that actually these cuts were made with an appropriate level of thoughtfulness. Your point that there are criteria which are being applied is a useful contribution, but you should have expanded on this in your original comment, as it was not clear that you were reframing the discussion in this way.
          • SecretDreams 2y ago
            Respectfully, I took the word at face value and made what I thought was a fair, albeit half-jokingly correction. Certainly, I understood the context of the original post and I expected that this community would understand my follow up comment which is using correctly applied English. For whatever it's worth, I see no synonyms for indiscriminately that would fall under "without due care; thoughtlessly" on Merriam-Webster. Even if I understood what the OP was saying, it was not technically the correct verbiage to use. I would have thought I'd receive a similar level of "allowable nuance" in my comment that the OP was afforded. https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/indiscriminately https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/indiscriminately
  • derbOac 2y ago
    There are many problems going on right now, but in terms of cuts this is one of the most problematic: everything is secret, with no oversight or deliberation. It's indistinguishable from corrupt malice because it's not done with open thoughtfulness.
    • jacobyoder 2y ago
      I just can't believe your take on this. The White House press secretary has directly said, multiple times, "this is the most transparent administration ever". /s In reality, this entire process is insanity. We've had examples of government spending overhaul in the past - early(?) 90s - both sides worked together, cut lots of spending across programs, downsized tens of thousands of federal workers, and balanced a budget, to the point where we had a surplus. It was tough, took time, wasn't perfect, but was deliberated and debated and far far far more open and transparent than all this. But their goal was actually improving government (even if that meant reducing some areas). The current 'leadership' goal is to dismantle/destroy as much as possible, as this is led by people who think government in general should not exist.
  • tlogan 2y ago
    Yes, this is 100% consistent with their policy: cut everything and if you find out that something is really really needed then reverse it.
• markhahn 2y ago
  it might be ignorance; it might be malice. it might also be deliberate: that they actually don't think the government should be involved in this sort of thing. after all, someone could be making a profit on this, and that seems to be their highest value. if gov is involved, that makes it a communal effort, and you know what else starts with "commun-"? yes, those reasons are stupid and ignorant AND intentional. but is there any evidence against that interpretation?
  • ggm 2y ago
    Hanlon's razor. I also tend to impute malice to things I don't like, but I think it's hard to go past stupidity.
    • JoshTriplett 2y ago
      Sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice. (Leaving aside that there's plenty of evidence of malice here.)
    • groby_b 2y ago
      Stupidity rarely has a consistent destructive track record. You score occasional wins. Only malice allows every decision to do damage. (The other razor, essentially - Occam)
    • gregw2 2y ago
      I love Hanlon's razor. Super-helpful in certain contexts: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." But, having known about it for a dozen years now, I also find it inadequate alone as a razor without the following caveats/corollaries: Hubbard's corollary to Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice or stupidity that which can be explained by moderately rational individuals following incentives in a complex system". ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor#Exceptions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor#Exceptions ) Or (HN) Nerdponx's punchier simplification: "When money is at stake, never attribute to incompetence what could be attributed to greed." ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41066724 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41066724 )
    • 2y ago
• Aurornis 2y ago
  This sort of thing is happening across the federal government. There is no rhyme or reason. DOGE has been given an unrealistic target for cuts and they're desperately cutting whatever they can get their hands on. If you look at the federal budget it's nearly impossible for DOGE to hit their stated goals without touching benefits like medicare and social security (which are off limits so far) so the only option is deep, deep cuts into the narrow slice of the federal budget that excludes those protected categories. There is no rhyme or reason to what gets cut, other than someone under pressure to hit KPIs (dollars cut) was desperately searching for things that looked easy to cancel. This is happening everywhere the federal government touches. Most people aren't aware of it until they come around and pull the rug on something that intersects with your own life. Even my die-hard Republican distant relatives are suddenly shocked because programs they benefited from are being cut. They thought they voted for something different.
  • guywithahat 2y ago
    [flagged]
    • Aurornis 2y ago
      Smug, cryptic remarks aren't helpful. If you have a point, say it.
      • toomuchtodo 2y ago
        They are breaking down the federal government intentionally. DOGE was never going to hit their goals, they were impossible to hit. The goals were just cover to take full control over anything they can get their hands on. > Even my die-hard Republican distant relatives are suddenly shocked because programs they benefited from are being cut. They thought they voted for something different. They voted for others to be hurt and to lose benefits, not their “in group.” Surprise surprise, they are considered the waste by those they voted for.
        • sitkack 2y ago
• Spooky23 2y ago
  No, we’re in a middle of a coup. Palantir or some other odious company will get paid 100x more to do something.
  • transcriptase 2y ago
    [flagged]
  • cavisne 2y ago
    MITRE has a trademark on the term CVE.
    • pjmlp 2y ago
      As if laws have any meaning to this administration, and anyone expecting this will only last four years instead of turning into one of those countries so much admired by the captain at the helm, is fooling themselves. When the citizens realise this, the structures to clamp down any revolution will be in place.
      • fennecfoxy 2y ago
        TBF trade-marking a term like "CVE" is the most ridiculous fucking thing and just reeks of modern American copyright law type stuff.
        • quesera 2y ago
          It's only superficially ridiculous. "CVE" is trademarked and emphasized (e.g. included in the shorthand notations, e.g. CVE-2014-0160), explicitly to prevent other groups from using "CVE" in a way that causes confusion in the marketplace. And yes, this is the same reason trademarks exist for commercial purposes. But imagine if Microsoft could issue CVEs against Apple ... or OpenAI against Anthropic, etc. The label "CVE" has to have a known authority to be useful. And the only way to ensure that is to trademark it. See also: "Linux™".
  • ozim 2y ago
• epistasis 2y ago
  Your words don't make any sense in this environment. The idea that any person at an agency could stand up to or convince the DOGE team of anything is preposterous. Anything that weakens the US or puts our cybersecurity in a place that Russia can exfiltrate data will happen. This is not about the US needing anything and it's silly to think otherwise. See also the NLRB whistleblower and the security backdoors that DOGE demanded to allow data exfiltration and the subsequent death threats to the whistle blower. You mindset is behind the times and needs to adjust to a, frankly, insane current reality.
  • mmooss 2y ago
    > Your words don't make any sense in this environment. The idea that any person at an agency could stand up to or convince the DOGE team of anything is preposterous. Your comment embraces and spreads the powerlessness they want you to feel and spread. Of course you can stop them - like any other negotiation in life, especially non-friendly ones, you need to make it in Trump's interest either by carrot or stick. Trump has interests; identify them and identify your power in those regards ('power and interest' is the term), and use it. Also, stop helping them make DOGE the scapegoat. It's Trump.
    • epistasis 2y ago
      DOGE is doing this, it's not a "scapegoat", and Trump is not going to negotiate anything here, that's ridiculous. What leverage do you have for the DOGE boys? What power? Resigning? Because on the Defense side of the government the best leverage that some teams have found is mass resignation, meaning that nothing happens. There is no negotiating with bullies, it merely breeds more concessions.
      • mmooss 2y ago
        > DOGE is doing this, it's not a "scapegoat", and Trump is not going to negotiate anything here, that's ridiculous. DOGE follows Trump's direction and acts on his behalf, as you must know. They make a big deal out of DOGE so Trump's name is less attached to these actions. Then they can take much of the blame with them when they go away, with Trump and the GOP blaming them for 'excesses'. > Trump is not going to negotiate anything here, that's ridiculous. > What leverage do you have for the DOGE boys? You don't understand how negotiations work. Everyone has interests, strengths and weaknesses, and power. You need to make it in Trump's interest to keep the CVE program. Everyone saying they are helpless, and that anything else is ridiculous, are panicking. Very unfortunately - dangerously - many people legitimize the panic. It's so normalized that it's "ridiculous" not to panic. Every day you continue this behavior, you fall further and further behind and lead others in that direction. Will you wake up in time?
• tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
  If you made this careful analysis, you'd hear "CRISSAKE WE NEED THIS DONT TOUCH IT" for almost everything (and it likely would be right for a significant portion but not everything). That's why the current approach seems to be to axe everything, listen to how much screaming there is, then reinstate only the projects where the screaming is really loud.
  • delusional 2y ago
    You forget that their stated policy (and I don't doubt their commitment) is that whoever complains the loudest were probably scamming. That "honest people don't complain"
  • conception 2y ago
    So the dumbest way to do anything. Got it.
    • phtrivier 2y ago
      Please read Isaacson biography of Musk. The "Musk algorithm" is described in detail, and can be summed up as a "reverse Chesterton's fence" "If you are not forced to reinstitute 10% of the rules you slashed, you have not slashed enough". What happens while the 10% are slashed is left as an exercise to the voter. Hopefully, the cve db will be deemed part of the 10%.
• atkailash 2y ago
  [dead]
• overfeed 2y ago
  > "kill it, we don't need this" "We are paying MITRE how much? Bigballs and co will write a better ststem in 1 week and have it integrated with xAI. How hard could it be? Send out a first draft of an xAI contract to our DHS contact"
• IOT_Apprentice 2y ago
  They were at the mercy of 20 year olds from doge. I wonder when doge enters the NSA & NRO WHAT information will they steal & put in their hard drives. All of this is criminal behavior on the the current regime.
• eadmund 2y ago
  > I wonder what level of compartmentalisation inside DHS means they didn't see this as having sufficient downsides? The National Vulnerability Database has been unable to keep up with the flow of CVEs for over a year now: - https://anchore.com/blog/national-vulnerability-database-opaque-changes-and-unanswered-questions/ https://anchore.com/blog/national-vulnerability-database-opa... - https://www.cyberreport.io/news/cve-backlog-update-the-nvd-struggles-as-attackers-change-tactics?article=98084 https://www.cyberreport.io/news/cve-backlog-update-the-nvd-s... - https://www.ibm.com/think/insights/cve-backlog-update-nvd-struggles-attackers-change-tactics https://www.ibm.com/think/insights/cve-backlog-update-nvd-st... - and many, many, many others It has been a complete disaster for months. At this point, perhaps the thinking is to radically change approaches?
  • gtirloni 2y ago
    You assume there's a plan. Interesting.
  • rco8786 2y ago
    > perhaps the thinking is to radically change approaches? If there had been a replacement or reform plan for even one single iota of the things this admin has cut, I might give them the benefit of the doubt. But there's not. It's just kill, kill, kill.
  • metabagel 2y ago
    Cutting the program would seem to go in the opposite direction of what is needed.
• rco8786 2y ago
  > I wonder what level of compartmentalisation inside DHS means they didn't see this as having sufficient downsides? Come on, are you living under a rock right now? There are massive indiscriminate funding cuts to anything that Elon/Doge deems to be "fraud", and they explicitly do not care about the collateral damage. This is not about the DHS or "compartmentalization". This is just a politician running amok and having real consequences.
  • martin8412 2y ago
    Also there has been funding cuts to all agencies where Musk is currently under investigation. NHTSA is getting cut so they can't get in the way of Tesla.
• paulmendoza 2y ago
  No one analyzed it most likely. It’s possible on of the college students working for Doge doesn’t understand security because they are a child with no real world experience that Elon brought in to slash costs.