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Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic
- Modified3019 2y agoIt makes sense now why they burn cars every protest (besides being fun). Pollution for a day, clean air for a lifetime
- ARandomerDude 2y agoAh yes, the joy of destroying your neighbor’s property just for fun. Is he a working-class guy, struggling to pay his bills? Too bad. Because nothing says “let’s build a better future” than a riot.
- Tireings 2y ago[dead]
- 4ndrewl 2y agoSadly, that is mostly how it happens. Wars/riots and strikes are the only proven mechanism for effecting systemic change to power structures. It's how you got most of your freedoms.
- const_cast 2y agoI don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, it’s literally, objectively true. The only reason Carnegie built 1500 public libraries is because he knew otherwise there was a good chance some vigilantes would take things into their own hands and he and his family would hang. Yes, it sucks that the only way to reach the rich and powerful is to harm women, children and property. But at least the rich and powerful of old knew this, and preemptively prevented it. New billionaires are far too cavalier. They believe themselves invisible, and it shows in their utter disrespect onto the average people. Where is our philanthropy? Why do you not fear for your life? We have become too civilized, and allowed the evil to laugh in our faces.
- carlosjobim 2y ago[flagged]
- goatlover 2y ago> Yes, it sucks that the only way to reach the rich and powerful is to harm women, children I would consider that evil, much as I want the current administration and it's allies to have some healthy respect (and thus restraint) for the power of the people.
- const_cast 2y agoOf course it's evil, it's just that historically that's what we've done and historically that's what effective. It's largely good that we, as a people, have become more civilized and don't resort to that. The unexpected downside of that, though, is that we are much more susceptible to being exploited. It's a sort of naivety trade-off.
- 4ndrewl 2y agoikr, it's how every country came into being.
- orwin 2y agoI will note that car burning is rare during protests. It mostly happen during riots, which are quite rare (i think 2005 were the big ones, and some light ones started last year). What can happen is a luxury car finding itself on its own roof (those racing cars are light). During the yellow vest protest, "unsafe" property destruction started, destroying an apartment and putting in danger bystanders (the only death was due to a police grenade shot trough an open window, but the protesters put in danger bystanders too, and only luck prevented any deaths). Which triggered an interesting response from old punks/antifas (and also active ones): They joined facebook yellow vest protest groups to teach "how to" destroy property properly: spot danger points, how to find a target, how to avoid side effects, when to avoid using fire (99.9% of the time), when not to, how to deactivate teargas grenade (it is surprising, but a lot of people do not know how to), and instilled in some very theoritical points about secrecy and compartmentalization that were passed down from like the "groupe Barta", which, to be honest, is quite funny.
- Kavelach 2y agoMassive strikes that are hard to contain got use the 8 hour work day, weekends and a lot of labor rights. Civil right movements won only because a huge portion of them were militant (back then even the National Rifle Association supported banning guns). A violent status quo necessitates violence to achieve change.
- eesmith 2y agoThe suffrage movement in the UK also had a militant component: > The tactics of the [Women’s Social and Political Union] included shouting down speakers, hunger strikes, stone-throwing, window-smashing, and arson of unoccupied churches and country houses. In Belfast, when in 1914 the Ulster Unionist Council appeared to renege on an earlier commitment to women's suffrage,[27] the WSPU's Dorothy Evans (a friend of the Pankhursts) declared an end to "the truce we have held in Ulster." In the months that followed WSPU militants (including Elizabeth Bell, the first woman in Ireland to qualify as a doctor and gynaecologist) were implicated in a series of arson attacks on Unionist-owned buildings and on male recreational and sports facilities. This influenced the US suffrage movement, like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_suffrage_in_the_United_States#Equality_League_of_Self-Supporting_Women https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_suffrage_in_the_Unit... , even during WWI: "groups like the National Woman's Party that continued militant protests during wartime were criticized by other suffrage groups and the public, who viewed it as unpatriotic."
- umbra07 2y agoDo you perhaps see a difference between "massive strikes" and "destroying your neighbor's property?"
- abenga 2y agoI don't think the massive strikes were as peaceful as you imply.
- thrance 2y agoThe comment you resond to is obviously a joke, and so is yours (in a way) but owning and driving a car in Paris almost certainly places you in the upper class. Most Parisians don't own cars, most don't use them to drive around the city.
- kaonwarb 2y agoI am highly confident that a sufficient percentage of those whose cars are burned go on to buy another car that the net impact of the act you describe is negative on all counts.
- jfengel 2y agoEr, aren't the cars in question electric cars? That has little to do with the pollution or traffic, and more about the extreme actions of their manufacturer. It's symbolic, albeit largely ineffective and ignored by the target.
- umbra07 2y agoI don't view terrorism as fun. I guess other people differ.
- giraffe_lady 2y agoBurning an unoccupied car is vandalism I think.
- codedokode 2y agoWhat if the owner haven't even paid back a 5-year loan for the car?
- Sloowms 2y agoSince everything is terrorism now maybe you can stop doing terrorism with your comment and delete it.
- ianleighton 2y agomostly just a new year’s eve celebration now
- pluc 2y agoDon't have to ban cars - the UK has adopted a speed limit of 20/30 mph in cities and I'm sure it helps. Surely helps with the noise and the safety
- jfengel 2y agoA lot of the problems occur where you couldn't go 20 mph. The City of London famously has a congestion charge, which also helps lot. A similar plan just got started in Manhattan and already has big wins.
- foldr 2y agoThe congestion charge applies to a zone within London that’s much larger than just the City of London.
- graemep 2y agoIt can make pollution worse. ICE cars are most efficient at around 50mph.
- appreciatorBus 2y ago> ICE cars are most efficient at around 50mph ... when driven continuously without stopping, like a on cross country limited access highway. When driving in the places people live, with cross walks and stop signs and children playing outside requiring frequent slowing & stopping, there's no efficiency benefit from racing 0 to 50mph every block then slamming on the brakes, only to repeat for each block after.
- graemep 2y agoI frequently drive through 20 mph areas with little stop start traffic. I rarely drive at busy times. There is nowhere in the UK I can think of that has had a 50 limit in my lifetime that requires frequent breaking. 20 mph limits are invariably reduced from 30.
- perihelions 2y agohttps://archive.is/zWfzo https://archive.is/zWfzo
- jeffbee 2y agoBarely even mentions the noise. Cities aren't loud but cars are. Paris 2025 vs 1995 soundscapes very different.
- 1over137 2y agoYes, this was very noticeable during covid lockdowns too.
- altairprime 2y agoI believe https://carto.bruitparif.fr/ https://carto.bruitparif.fr/ represents 2022 levels, but my French is very rusty and I suspect that historical data review is more readily available to a speaker of it. Perhaps that site has lockdown data as a layer somewhere?
- williamdclt 2y agoYep, it says this is a map of noise levels, representing the Lden noise indicator over a full day
- paulgb 2y agoManhattan recently got congestion pricing and it’s noticeably more enjoyable because of this, even indoors.
- kkkqkqkqkqlqlql 2y agoDidn't Trump killed it? https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/19/business/trump-kills-congestion-pricing-nyc/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/19/business/trump-kills-congesti...
- sergiotapia 2y agoThere's this guy on YouTube that travelled to india and one thing stood out to me was the non-stop honking of cars and bikes. Just endless forever. What a nightmare! I wonder what that does to a population. How does anyone think?? https://youtu.be/IFUIdcrgW6M?si=o6LkXK4MyS-PL7m-&t=661 https://youtu.be/IFUIdcrgW6M?si=o6LkXK4MyS-PL7m-&t=661
- TulliusCicero 2y agoThose are some really awesome changes. If only we could get more of that for cities in the US.
- JasonBorne 2y agoWe can. Slowly over time we need to raise awareness of the benefits of this.
- sorcerer-mar 2y agoJust tax road consumption so people who use the roads actually pay for them. It is amazing what this has achieved in Manhattan.
- notyourwork 2y agoPoor taxes are not a great solution with respect to equality.
- sorcerer-mar 2y agohttps://www.mta.info/fares-tolls/tolls/congestion-relief-zone/discounts-exemptions https://www.mta.info/fares-tolls/tolls/congestion-relief-zon... Pretty trivial to discount/exempt people as is done in NYC. An even simpler starting point (which we should actually do for all road-related fees like tickets IMO) is to set fees by the KBB value of the vehicle in question. Let people contest them in court if they want.
- loeg 2y agoThe population driving into Manhattan is not poor. It's a consumption tax, not a poor tax.
- panick21_ 2y agoThis is a bad approach. At least if its only that. In Manhatten this works because there is already a decent public transport, already a culture of waking and an established culture of biking. You can just force people into better cities with punishing taxes. You actually have make the roads safer, provide alternatives and so on. And this is easier said then done, almost all cities in the US have zoning codes and other laws that make it completely impossible to build decent urban infrastructure. And the traffic standards are literally 100% backwards to providing safety. In fact, because the traffic standards are so bad that less cars actually kill more people. This is because a lot of traffic slows down vehicle speeds on avg. So basically, if all you are doing is forcing less people to drive, without doing anything else, you are just gone make the roads unsafer, and not improve the city or the lives of most people.
- onlyrealcuzzo 2y agoHow much of this has to do with the policies highlighted - removing 50k parking spots, adding bike lanes and green spaces - and how much has to do with cars having better exhaust? How much less cars are on the road today vs then? The charts and title make it look like there's no cars in Paris anymore. That's not the case, at all.
- davidw 2y agoGiven that tires produce a lot of particulate matter, even EV's contribute to pollution significantly.
- nashashmi 2y agoWouldn’t that mean bicycles contribute to air pollution?
- ndsipa_pomu 2y agoBy a miniscule amount - probably less pollution than that produced by people walking.
- verteu 2y agoIt's proportional to weight, so I imagine bicycles are negligible.
- nashashmi 2y agoI would imagine there is more wear and tear on a bike tire because of rough handling.
- campl3r 2y agoYes, but so do humans walking. The proportions matter.
- user777777 2y agoYes cars are bikes
- mjevans 2y ago"Ban all the cars" does have noticeable effects. I wonder if something less all / none might have nearly the same effects with far less drawbacks otherwise. E.G. What if only emissions testing certified low emission vehicles were allowed? What if only electric? How about requiring quiet utility trucks for garbage / freight / etc? For cities that large / dense, adding in Caves of Steel like people-mover belts might be a great alternative too.
- iambateman 2y agoParis has certainly not banned all cars. Just reduced their numbers.
- Doctor_Fegg 2y ago> What if only electric? Then the streets would still be unsafe and congested, just with a bit less pollution.
- 10-1-100 2y agoWith modern emissions standards, more than 50% of the harmful pollution comes from tires/brakes/road surface wear/resuspended dust: https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/non-exhaust-particulate-emissions-from-road-transport_4a4dc6ca-en/full-report.html#section-d1e2753 https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/non-exhaust-particulate... Moving away from privately owned cars entirely seems to be the only way to eliminate the health impact of cars on people in a city.
- stavros 2y agoAre publicly-owned cars somehow not emitting anything? Or, how else will people get around? I live in a European city, where I rarely use my car to get around. Banning cars won't do anything, because I don't use my car because I can, I use it because I have to. If you want to get rid of cars, design cities that can be lived in without having to use cars.
- eesmith 2y agoPeople wouldn't use publicly-owned cars, they would used publicly-owned buses, trams, subways, and other forms of mass transit, plus (as the article points out), making it easier to walk or bike. I believe the goal of limiting car use in Paris is as part of re-designing the city so it can be lived in without having to use cars, yes.
- bill38 2y agoThere's still a lot of cars driving in Paris. And motor scooters.
- karaterobot 2y ago[flagged]
- panick21_ 2y agoNo need to be like that. Yes, of fucking course in a city of millions of people there are still cars. The point here is the relative amount compared to earlier.
- karaterobot 2y agoIt did not appear to me like most people in this thread were talking about a modest reduction in vehicle traffic, or that they'd done any due diligence to estimate the actual effect of the restrictions. Seems like people are mostly shooting from the hip.
- ismailmaj 2y agoIt's mostly in the west of Paris i.e. 8th, 15th and 16th districts, the other districts not so much if at all.
- ianleighton 2y agoscooters are the worst. So much noise for a tiny vehicle (worse than most cars even) and the old ones smell so so bad. electrify now!
- bri3d 2y agoWorth noting that 50-60% of passenger cars in France are diesel, but Paris have been gradually banning older higher emission diesels (Crit’air 3, 4, 5) from Paris. Banning cars outright also works, of course, but I suspect a lot of the reduction can be attributed to getting particularly bad diesel cars out vs. the limited areas where cars are entirely restricted.
- 10-1-100 2y agoAlso worth noting that with modern emissions standards (and transition to EVs), over 50% of handful particulates come from tires, brakes, road surface wear, and resuspended dust: https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/non-exhaust-particulate-emissions-from-road-transport_4a4dc6ca-en/full-report.html#section-d1e2753 https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/non-exhaust-particulate... I don't think there's any healthy level of private cars coexisting with humans in a city, without even considering the more immediate harms from crashes, etc.
- azinman2 2y agoWonder if anyone is working on ways for breaks and tires to be less harmful, or polluting?
- dmckeon 2y agoRegenerative braking would tend to reduce particulates from friction braking.
- Swizec 2y agoMost European cars already have engine braking. EV regenerative braking just maintains the behavior that folks only used to automatics forgot about. Automatics I think are still not super common in Europe.
- beardyw 2y agoIn the UK about one third are automatic but make up three quarters of new registrations.
- whimsicalism 2y agoit’s always shocked me how diesel reliant Europe is, smells absolutely terrible coming from the states
- kgwgk 2y agoThere are many more gasoline cars than diesel cars in the European Union. The latter are used more though and heavy vehicles are also diesel so there is a higher consumption of diesel than gasoline.
- pjmlp 2y agoWay cheaper than gasoline, that is why.
- SoftTalker 2y agoThat’s all a matter of taxation. Modern refining does not produce diesel/kerosene as a leftover unless you want it.
- pjmlp 2y agoIndeed, just like buying EVs is a matter of subsidies.
- fragmede 2y agoWhat's interesting is that the price of electricity in the EU makes EVs not competitive on that basis.
- pjmlp 2y agoEV are still not competitive when most of us live in flats, and most would never even consider buying one given their prices if it wasn't for the subsidies.
- julosflb 2y agoDiesel engines are also more efficient.
- grg0 2y agoCars in cities, let alone designing cities around cars, is one of the greatest tragedies of modern life.
- jfengel 2y agoIt is, though the problem predates the cars. At the time cars were seen as a huge win over the vast piles of horse poop. Cities do need to be reconsidered for more public transit and more opportunities to walk, but other issues (delivery, emergency, disability, etc) have to figure in.
- EA-3167 2y agoNot just horse poop, but dead horses that were quite the chore to remove back in the day, and the danger posed to pedestrians by a bunch of quite large and easily panicked animals.
- 1over137 2y agoWe still have that danger. But the animals are homo sapiens and they are surrounded by 2 tonnes of metal. :)
- EA-3167 2y agoThis is true, but from the perspective of the time, automobiles were far from "2 tons of metal" and quite a bit slower. They were also a rich man's conveyance, even more so than a nice carriage, and I doubt people understood early on just how widely adopted the automobile would become. A lack of foresight is also very human.
- heresie-dabord 2y ago>A lack of foresight is also very human. Let's call it what it really is. The stubborn unwillingness to consider scalability in our designs and planning — even in an era where a machine can do calculation for us.
- aucisson_masque 2y agoSince then, many city have enforced the same kind of rule where polluting car are banned from center of town. 2 week ago, deputies were discussing the global ban of 'car free town center' because it doesn't really work and it exclude part of the society... https://www.lefigaro.fr/automobile/zfe-50-deputes-defendent-une-proposition-de-loi-sur-la-suspension-des-zones-a-faibles-emissions-20250325 https://www.lefigaro.fr/automobile/zfe-50-deputes-defendent-...
- panick21_ 2y agoHorrible propaganda. More then anything else, cars are what excludes access. It doesn't really work is hilarious statement when some of the cities with highest amount of tourists in the world have car free city centers. Not to mention that many off the cities ranked highest quality of live have lots of car free areas.
- Sloowms 2y agoWhich part does it exclude? Elderly who are unfit to drive, anyone below driving age or who can't afford a car or license? People with disabilities, like blind people, people with motor issues, people with disabilities that can't afford a modified car? All these people have to dodge cars to get to places.
- Praviste 2y ago[flagged]
- Praviste 2y ago.
- callc 2y agoYou can edit your previous comments on HN. At least for a certain amount of time, and then they become un-editable.
- greatgib 2y agoThis article is so full of bullshit! Car are still a lot in Paris and there are conflicting studies about the air quality evolution in Paris, some days it is better, some days not. But the Parisian regulation on car as no real effect so far. Paris is like at a bottom of a curve and it is said that the car might account only for less than 20% of it, the biggest contributor being industry in the region. What had a big impact on thin particules are the evolution of car technologies. Now every engine in France has to be equiped with efficient catalytic exhaust pipes and efficient engine to reduce this kind of bad particules. In this article, you can see a very deceptive image comparison. There is a picture of the Eiffel tower long time ago and now. The picture of before has a strong fog, but it is just because being taken on a foggy day but the article would like you to think that it is how a picture would have been everyday due to the popultof the air...
- saltysalt 2y agoAirparif is an NGO run by environmentalists and funded by the EU, not sure how independent they are?
- stouset 2y agoWho, exactly, would you like to monitor air quality and who, exactly, do you think should be funding it?
- saltysalt 2y agoSomeone without bias, obviously.
- toomanyrichies 2y ago“Someone without bias” is indeed obvious, and therefore unhelpful. Can you be more specific? Who, precisely, doesn’t have a dog in the climate change fight?
- saltysalt 2y agoHow specific am I supposed to be, do you want names, resumes, potential investors? Not my problem to solve. However, I no longer accept published reports at face value, unless I check who the authors are, and who funds them. They even have a Cruchbase page, it's easy to check for yourself.
- toomanyrichies 2y ago> How specific am I supposed to be, do you want names, resumes, potential investors? Names would be good, for a start. If you can’t name a single person, group, or entity whose opinion would satisfy you, it’s likely that no amount of evidence would change your mind. Which means that you’re not discussing this topic in good faith. All human endeavors have human bias, in one direction or the other. If you’re waiting for a bias-free source of information, you’ll be waiting a long time.
- codingclaws 2y agoRemember when Covid hit, and no one was going anywhere (in a plane or a car), and the skies were crystal clear everywhere.
- tom89999 2y agoGreat that they have made parking more expensive for heavy and huge cars. My city here offers parking free of charge for EVs, but note they are heavy, have wide tires and cost parking space. Whats the tradeoff then? Its wasting electric energy to move such a pile of metal for one person. I critisized that in the forum of our local newspaper, my comment got deleted....
- HexPhantom 2y agoHonestly, kind of amazing to see a big city actually pull it off. So many places talk about reducing car dependence and improving air quality, but Paris really committed - and the data speaks for itself. Of course, the pushback from drivers was inevitable (it always is), but it's hard to argue with 55% less PM2.5 and cleaner skies over the Eiffel Tower. That's not just good urban policy - that's public health in action.
- tomtomistaken 2y agoAre there any dataset that monitor average NO2 pollution of cities over time? CAMS released one[1], but it's not updated any more. [1] https://github.com/CopernicusAtmosphere/air-quality-covid19-response https://github.com/CopernicusAtmosphere/air-quality-covid19-...
- returntooffice 2y ago[flagged]
- Rover222 2y agoThis just makes me think about how absurd it is that left wing people are lately seeming more anti-EV, and picking up oil industry talking points on EVs.
- fithisux 2y ago"Energy consumption fell substantially as Paris started killing one in two pedestrians." A win-win situation.