8 ms·

As a EU citizen, I think this voter ID argument is absolutely insane.

aredox 2y ago
As a French I used to think too, "what's the big deal", "it has never been an issue here". But that's because we are used to it and getting an ID is easy and almost automatic. Whereas in a country like the US, it means missing several days of work, driving potentially hundreds of kilometers, and their geographic segregation means it's easy to make getting an ID harder for black people than for whites. As a European I also find insane elections are held on workdays (in France it is always on Sundays), that you may have to wait in line for hours to vote, that voting stations may be hours from where you live, etc.
- rastignack 2y ago
  Do you have a more precise exemple of a state in which it is that difficult ? And a source ? I really find it hard to believe.
  - nl 2y ago
    Not the OP but here’s an example: https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidquestions/comments/1ghrsbq/comment/luzygy9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidquestions/comments/1ghrsbq/co... Basically you need very specific letters where your exact name and address must match but those are issued without checking. So if one uses your middle initial instead of your name then no ID for you until you get it reissued. In Texas they have a shortage of staff issuing the ids too so there is a 3 month delay after you apply to find out what you did incorrectly https://www.statesman.com/story/opinion/columns/2024/08/19/texas-id-to-vote-reasonable-impediment-form-dps-staffing-shortage/74810945007/ https://www.statesman.com/story/opinion/columns/2024/08/19/t...
- Jensson 2y ago
  You need an ID to do basic tasks in USA as well, everyone with a normal life has them.
  - Animats 2y ago
    It's getting complicated for married women. Every name change since birth has to be documented to get a Real ID.
  - varsketiz 2y ago
    A google search tells me that around half of people in the USA do not hold a passport. Domestically most people rely on drivers licence as their ID.
    - Jensson 2y ago
      > Domestically most people rely on drivers licence as their ID So show your drivers license at the voting booth? Why is that unacceptable?
      - mjamesaustin 2y ago
        Any form of ID held by the average voter will be unacceptable to the GOP, because it won't limit voting access from the people they don't want voting.
        Jensson 2y ago
        That doesn't explain why democrat run states like California can't have a sensible voter ID law that accepts such identifications? If they just said "accept more IDs" instead of "stop voter ID requirements" people wouldn't think its a problem, but that isn't what democrats are saying.
        amanaplanacanal 2y ago
        What problem are you trying to solve here? Republicans say the problem is people voting who are ineligible, Democrats accuse them of trying to make it harder for democratic voters to vote.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- leflambeur 2y ago
  This makes no sense. You can literally register to vote at the DMV and I know very few adult Americans, of one ethnicity or another, who don't have a driver's license.
  - tzs 2y ago
    Around 9% of US citizens 18 or older do not have a non-expired driver's license. It's even more for various minorities [1][2]. [1] https://cdce.umd.edu/sites/cdce.umd.edu/files/pubs/Voter%20ID%202023%20survey%20Key%20Results%20Jan%202024%20%281%29.pdf https://cdce.umd.edu/sites/cdce.umd.edu/files/pubs/Voter%20I... [2] https://papersplease.org/wp/2024/06/07/who-lacks-id-in-america-today/ https://papersplease.org/wp/2024/06/07/who-lacks-id-in-ameri...
    - leflambeur 2y ago
      I only mentioned DMVs to point out that even if you didn't set out to get a voting document, you can still check the box and get it. In other words, it's not "people need driver's licenses to vote".
    - dzhiurgis 2y ago
      Aren't poor and dumb usually republicans tho?
      - UncleMeat 2y ago
        The poor disproportionately votes left. Somebody who is poor and lives without a valid ID that meets voting requirements is also not necessarily dumb.
  - piva00 2y ago
    Almost 10% of eligible voters do not have access to citizenship proof at ready[0]. Trump changed voting rules to require proof of citizenship[1]. Disenfranchising 21 million voters makes sense now, no? [0] https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/213-million-american-citizens-voting-age-dont-have-ready-access https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/213-... [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/25/politics/voting-proof-of-citizenship-requirements-trump-executive-order/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/25/politics/voting-proof-of-...
- ryzvonusef 2y ago
  I'm from Pakistan, and the solution to 'it's difficult for people to get ID' was so simple even 3rd world poor illiterate country could do it: just go to them instead. Our ID department has buses with computers and cameras/fingerprint machines on them, they go to remote villages and stuff and take everyone's bio data, then return a few weeks later and give everyone their cards. There is literally NO valid excuse for NOT implementing voter ID. NONE. If we can do it, the richest country in the world can do it. Such a pathetic hill for American Democratic party to die on.
  - pasc1878 2y ago
    The problem in the US is they are not doing this if anything they are reducing the number of places you can get an ID.
    - ryzvonusef 2y ago
      The US is not a monolith, it's a collection of 50 states.... Democratic states collect taxes and implement policy independently, they CAN do this, at least in their own areas. Start there first!
      - aredox 2y ago
        https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz
        ryzvonusef 2y ago
        I have been a John Oliver viewer from the first season, and my comment will be the same as what I said 9 years ago: This is bullship. Start small, but START. Start from Democrats accepting what every LEFT leaning person the rest of the world accepts: Photo ID is necessary, not to reduce voter fraud or whatever, but necessary to increase TRUST in the system. It's a cost, just pay it. Yes you will lose 'face' to republicans, don't care. Start small, start with free/cheap photo ID in deep democratic cities (I know local govt providing service, what an idea!). Once saturation reaches 80% plus, start enforcing voter ID laws to cajole the last 20% to start applying, carrot and stick. Start offering door-step service for those unable. Democrats pay taxes, don't they? start using them. Spread to other cities in democratic states. So what if it takes 10-20 year? Times passes like nothing. And once you have SET the standard of cheap, reliable access to Photo ID... and when democrats in power in the federal government again, they can use that to help implement cheap photo ID elsewhere, but even if Missouri doesn't get voter ID, it doesn't excuse democratic states NOT having it. The fact that the DMV is only open three days a month or whatever? If it's a democrat led city, FIX it. If it's a republican city, you can come to it later. But NOT starting, as some sort of fake 'rights' issue? Bullship. Start. Start Small, Start NOW. in 25 years you won't even remember this.
- gambiting 2y ago
  That would make sense if driver licences were difficult to obtain in US in any way shape or form, and they just aren't - almost everyone has one and it's not a big deal to get one.
  - aredox 2y ago
    Provably false. https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz And you need to do paperwork, which means you have to pay and find time. How do people with 2 or 3 jobs do?
    - gambiting 2y ago
      91% of US adults have a driving licence: https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2024/01/number-of-licensed-drivers-us/ https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2024/01/number-of-licensed-dr... So forgive me for being flippant but....how hard can it be? >>How do people with 2 or 3 jobs do? I assume they drive to those 3 jobs, so they somehow found a way.Again, sorry for being dismissive, and I appreciate it might be time consuming at costly - but still, 91% of all American adults have found a way to do this, so my point is that driving licences(along other documents) seem like a perfectly acceptable form of ID for voting?
- xwolfi 2y ago
  I'm French too but I disagree a bit: first, voting if important to people, should be a good reason to get an ID, voting without an ID does seem insane, so what are they doing. Second, why black people ? Are they not human too ? They can read, they can work, they can complain, they can... get an ID card right ? Simplest answer is they don't care, wash their hands off of the whole thing and then democrats complain that it's the requirement to identify voters that block them. But it's not a strange requirement, it's as you say, a completely normal part of being a citizen to get an ID, and a duty for a voting citizen to do what they need to do to get that ballot in. And even if black people were somehow disenfranchised from getting IDs, it doesn't prevent the non-black people to vote rationally, in the end. So no excuse.
  - CapricornNoble 2y ago
    >Second, why black people ? Are they not human too ? They can read, they can work, they can complain, they can... get an ID card right ? As a black American who had crackheads in my family, I don't know anyone who was totally incapable of getting an ID card. I only ever see the argument brought up by white people on the Internet. Tyranny of low expectations. Heaven forbid that black adults be expected to shoulder some personal responsibility and figure out how to meet the basic requirements to exercise their civic duties, same as white people. "The white liberal is the worst enemy to America, and the worst enemy to the black man." -- Malcom X
    - aredox 2y ago
      You should look a little bit closer to actual circumstances of people over the country. https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz
      - CapricornNoble 2y ago
        What aspect of this video do you think supports your position, specifically? My mother's side of my family is from North Philadelphia, same state as the first black woman featured in this video. I spent three weeks in the US in 2021 when my mother had a psychotic breakdown and I had to put her life back together on short notice. She had lost her wallet and all ID. I got her a brand new birth certificate in Philadelphia and a NJ State ID to replace her Driver's License. This required setting up some appointments either online or via phone, and bringing some documents along, but it was manageable. Expecting someone to have original birth certificate, SSN proof, and spouse's death certificate is....normal adult document management. I deal with a similar "burden of proof" every time I go to my local Japanese city office, or to immigration to renew our residency. The next anecdote in the segment blasts Sauk City, Wisconsin for the ID center being closed on most days. According to Copilot, Sauk City is 96% white, with a median household income over $78,000 and a population of less than 4000. So a small middle class town of white people rarely has the ID office open? How is that supposed to support the argument that mandatory ID requirements disproportionately affect minorities again? The second half of the John Oliver clip focuses on the voting events not the identification acquisition problem so I don't consider that part relevant and won't dissect it.
- bawolff 2y ago
  In canada, if you don't have an id, you can get someone who knows you (and has an id) to swear an oath you are who you say you are. You can also register at the same time you are voting. Seems to work fine. I dont think we have ever had any issues with that system.
  - rstuart4133 2y ago
    Even more radical: in Australia you turn up at one of many polling stations with no ID whatsoever and vote. It works because voting in Australia is compulsory. They must have your name on their list, they cross if off it and hand over the ballot paper. The checks and balances you might expect and done after the event, making it fairly secure. Only of those checks is you did vote, and a fine follows if you didn't.
- mrweasel 2y ago
  > As a European I also find insane elections are held on workdays That's not really an issue, if you have enough polling stations. Denmark typically have elections on a Tuesday (but can technically be any day of the week). We have 80%+ turnout, one of the highest in the world, for countries without mandatory voting. The day of the week doesn't matter, IF you ensure that it sufficiently easy for people to vote. If you actively try to make it inconvenient/impossible for people to vote, then it doesn't matter if it's on a Sunday. My take is that part of the US political system need as few voters as possible to turn up in order to have a chance of winning, so they will make it as complicated and inconvenient as they need it to be.
  - aredox 2y ago
    In a country where "some" people work two or three jobs to make ends meet, Sundays vs. workdays does matter.
  - Vinnl 2y ago
    I do enjoy the idea of making election days days off, days to celebrate. But yes, it usually takes me about five minutes to vote in the Netherlands, so I don't really need the day off.
- brightball 2y ago
  Most states where voter id is mandatory also have policies where you can get a free ID and even a free ride to a location to get your ID. They implemented that in South Carolina and after the first few years, nobody used it. Because you have to have an ID to do almost everything else in the country so everybody already has an ID and opposition to voter ID makes no sense.
  - tzs 2y ago
    "Free" ID generally means there is no fee paid to the issuer of the ID. It can cost hundreds of dollars to get the documents that you have to present to the issuer to get that "free" ID. Also many states have accompanied their stricter voter ID requirements with reducing the number of offices that process applications and with reducing the hours they accept applications so that even if you can get a free ride to an office you might have to take an unpaid day off from work to do so. That can be a significant loss for many poor workers. > Because you have to have an ID to do almost everything else in the country so everybody already has an ID and opposition to voter ID makes no sense. Yet many millions get by without an ID [1]. A lot of things you probably think cannot be done without an ID actually can. For example how can you cash a paycheck without an ID? You need an ID to open a bank account. An answer is you can cash checks using a third party endorsement. You don't need a bank for that. You just need a trusted friend who has a bank account. I'd guess that this is what the 6% of Americans without bank accounts do (23% among those making less than $25k/year) [2]. How about getting a job without ID? First, there are a lot of people who don't need jobs (e.g., the stay at home partner in a household where one partner works and the other takes care of the house). Second there are a lot of job that pay cash and are off the record. Also there are a fair number of people who once had ID but no longer do. It has been a very long time since I've actually needed to show my driver's license to anyone. My banking is all online, as is my check cashing (my bank has a great "deposit by photo" function). When I signed up for Medicare, Medigap, and a Part D plan that was all through ssa.gov and medicare.gov, with no need to show ID. That was apparently all covered by when I showed ID years ago when I set up ID.me as a login method for my ssa.gov account. It will likely be the same when I apply for Social Security benefits. Afterwards all my interaction with SS and Medicare should be through ssa.gov and medicare.gov. If when I'm older I am no longer fit to drive and let my driver's license expire and don't remember to get a state photo ID then there is a good chance I can live the rest of my life comfortably without ever running into anything where that causes problems. The simplest way, though, to see that it is possible to get by reasonably well without an ID is to note the large number of undocumented workers that the current administration is trying to kick out. They are able to come here, find places to live, and get paying jobs all without a state issued photo ID. Whatever they are doing citizens can do too. [1] https://www.voteriders.org/analysis-millions-lack-voter-id/ https://www.voteriders.org/analysis-millions-lack-voter-id/ [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/02/23percent-of-low-income-americans-are-living-without-a-bank-account.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/02/23percent-of-low-income-amer...
- weberer 2y ago
  >Whereas in a country like the US, it means missing several days of work, driving potentially hundreds of kilometers Where did you hear this? When I lived in Pennsylvania, it was really easy to get a state ID. Just go into the DMV, show them your documents, pay the fee ($42 now), and you have your ID within the hour. They had centers all around the city, and they're open on Saturdays. Personally, I think this is an extremely weird hill for Democrats to want to die on. Most independent and swing voters think its a reasonable requirement.
tpm 2y ago
It's a different culture, one which is not used to have and use a national ID, which is completely common in the EU (with the exception of Ireland perhaps?)
- christkv 2y ago
  That’s not true. I lived there for nearly a decade and you use driving licenses for id and there are other forms for id as well that don’t include the passport. You need ID to do a lot of stuff just like any other country.
  - tpm 2y ago
    What is not true? A driving license may be a defacto ID, but it is not a dejure, designated national ID card. It's a different system. In the EU countries the ID cards are backed by a more-or-less central civil register. (as an aside, it would be very funny to me if the they used the driving license for electronic signing of official communication with the authorities like we use it in some countries in the EU).
- pton_xd 2y ago
  Driver's license is the defacto ID used everywhere. Which kind of makes no sense but that's the way it is. Just about everyone has one and arguments that requiring an ID to vote would disenfranchise citizens don't sound believable to me.
  - aredox 2y ago
    Just look at actual facts. There are many links in this thread. You also seem to think everyone has a car and thus a driving licence. And that's before talking about voter roll purges, gerrymandering and putting ballot boxes and stations away from "certain type" of voters.
    - gambiting 2y ago
      >>You also seem to think everyone has a car and thus a driving licence I don't see how those two are related. In UK driving licences are also used as de facto ID everywhere(you can even get on domestic flights using your driving licence lol), and everyone gets one when they turn 18 because just get a provisional driving licence(identical to a normal one but with an L on it to indicate learner driver), no car necessary. In effect everyone in the country has a driving licence even if they don't drive or own a car. And you just apply by post, no need to go anywhere, Obviously it would be much better to do it like other European countries do it and just issue everyone with an actual ID when they turn 18, but what UK is doing is close enough equivalent of this. So if the US has the DMV and already has an easily accessible way for people to get driving licences......what's the problem?
suzzer99 2y ago
a) Republicans did the math and figured out that a lot of people who vote Democrat didn't have IDs. Old black people, in particular, were not likely to have IDs. Republicans also did stuff like accept fishing and hunting licenses for voting, but not university ID. None of this is a secret. A think-tank called ALEC came up with it. In-person voter fraud, the only kind of election rigging that voter ID laws prevent, is next to impossible in the US system and basically never occurs on more than a one-off basis. b) A lot of those people who didn't have IDs have either gotten IDs or died off by now, so the Republican advantage of voter ID laws has faded. c) Given (b), Republicans have moved on to other tactics like voter purges, shutting down registration offices and polling stations to create long lines in urban districts, gerrymandering, and limiting early voting and mail in voting. One of their favorite tactics is limiting early-voting mailboxes to one per precinct, whether that precinct has 1,000 voters or 1,000,000. You can guess which way the crowded urban precincts tend to vote. The whole idea is just to put their thumb on the scale enough to discourage some small % of voters in the swing states that determine our president every four years. If you live in California, no one cares how you vote for President.
- chgs 2y ago
  Tory party did this in the uk. Old people bus pass is allowed. Student id card isn’t.
  - thorin 2y ago
    Bus pass is issued by the government though. Student id is issued by the college. I know because I made one at the student union to help with getting into nightclubs (allegedly).
    - JKCalhoun 2y ago
      And here we created fake state-issued driver's licenses when I was in college. (Wish I could find a photo of a giant, fake driver's license on foam core with a rectangle cut out for the person to stand behind when a photo was taken.)
- 2y ago
tzs 2y ago
That's because you live someplace where the things described in the various links in this comment [1] do not happen or happen way less than they do in the US. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42116609 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42116609
IshKebab 2y ago
If it makes you feel any better the UK Conservatives tried this under the "we have to stop voting fraud" excuse. Turns out it backfired because the oldies couldn't figure out the new requirements leading to this scandalous quote from pantomime villain Jacob Reese-Mogg: > Parties that try and gerrymander end up finding that their clever scheme comes back to bite them, as dare I say we found by insisting on voter ID for elections. > We found the people who didn't have ID were elderly and they by and large voted Conservative, so we made it hard for our own voters and we upset a system that worked perfectly well.
- razakel 2y ago
  Even Boris Johnson was turned away from a polling station because he didn't have his ID with him.
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
I don't, but we have a functioning citizen registration system; every voting eligible citizen gets sent a voting card when elections come up. That can only work if you're registered and have a known address. "Illegal aliens" don't have that, so they can't vote. Foreign nationals that are registered / stay here legally also don't get voting rights so they simply don't get the voting card mailed to them. But also because of that registration, getting a kind of ID involves making an appointment at the county house, filling in a form and handing over a recent portrait photo. It's a bit of a hassle but nothing extreme.
matwood 2y ago
You've fallen victim to GOP propaganda. They use 'Voter ID' as a reasonable sounding shorthand for a lot of policies that just make it harder to vote. The other responders highlighted many of them.

As a French I used to think too, "what's the big deal", "it has never been an issue here". But that's because we are used to it and getting an ID is easy and almost automatic. Whereas in a country like the US, it means missing several days of work, driving potentially hundreds of kilometers, and their geographic segregation means it's easy to make getting an ID harder for black people than for whites. As a European I also find insane elections are held on workdays (in France it is always on Sundays), that you may have to wait in line for hours to vote, that voting stations may be hours from where you live, etc.

rastignack 2y ago
Do you have a more precise exemple of a state in which it is that difficult ? And a source ? I really find it hard to believe.
- nl 2y ago
  Not the OP but here’s an example: https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidquestions/comments/1ghrsbq/comment/luzygy9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidquestions/comments/1ghrsbq/co... Basically you need very specific letters where your exact name and address must match but those are issued without checking. So if one uses your middle initial instead of your name then no ID for you until you get it reissued. In Texas they have a shortage of staff issuing the ids too so there is a 3 month delay after you apply to find out what you did incorrectly https://www.statesman.com/story/opinion/columns/2024/08/19/texas-id-to-vote-reasonable-impediment-form-dps-staffing-shortage/74810945007/ https://www.statesman.com/story/opinion/columns/2024/08/19/t...
Jensson 2y ago
You need an ID to do basic tasks in USA as well, everyone with a normal life has them.
- Animats 2y ago
  It's getting complicated for married women. Every name change since birth has to be documented to get a Real ID.
- varsketiz 2y ago
  A google search tells me that around half of people in the USA do not hold a passport. Domestically most people rely on drivers licence as their ID.
  - Jensson 2y ago
    > Domestically most people rely on drivers licence as their ID So show your drivers license at the voting booth? Why is that unacceptable?
    - mjamesaustin 2y ago
      Any form of ID held by the average voter will be unacceptable to the GOP, because it won't limit voting access from the people they don't want voting.
      - Jensson 2y ago
        That doesn't explain why democrat run states like California can't have a sensible voter ID law that accepts such identifications? If they just said "accept more IDs" instead of "stop voter ID requirements" people wouldn't think its a problem, but that isn't what democrats are saying.
        amanaplanacanal 2y ago
        What problem are you trying to solve here? Republicans say the problem is people voting who are ineligible, Democrats accuse them of trying to make it harder for democratic voters to vote.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
leflambeur 2y ago
This makes no sense. You can literally register to vote at the DMV and I know very few adult Americans, of one ethnicity or another, who don't have a driver's license.
- tzs 2y ago
  Around 9% of US citizens 18 or older do not have a non-expired driver's license. It's even more for various minorities [1][2]. [1] https://cdce.umd.edu/sites/cdce.umd.edu/files/pubs/Voter%20ID%202023%20survey%20Key%20Results%20Jan%202024%20%281%29.pdf https://cdce.umd.edu/sites/cdce.umd.edu/files/pubs/Voter%20I... [2] https://papersplease.org/wp/2024/06/07/who-lacks-id-in-america-today/ https://papersplease.org/wp/2024/06/07/who-lacks-id-in-ameri...
  - leflambeur 2y ago
    I only mentioned DMVs to point out that even if you didn't set out to get a voting document, you can still check the box and get it. In other words, it's not "people need driver's licenses to vote".
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    Aren't poor and dumb usually republicans tho?
    - UncleMeat 2y ago
      The poor disproportionately votes left. Somebody who is poor and lives without a valid ID that meets voting requirements is also not necessarily dumb.
- piva00 2y ago
  Almost 10% of eligible voters do not have access to citizenship proof at ready[0]. Trump changed voting rules to require proof of citizenship[1]. Disenfranchising 21 million voters makes sense now, no? [0] https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/213-million-american-citizens-voting-age-dont-have-ready-access https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/213-... [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/25/politics/voting-proof-of-citizenship-requirements-trump-executive-order/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/25/politics/voting-proof-of-...
ryzvonusef 2y ago
I'm from Pakistan, and the solution to 'it's difficult for people to get ID' was so simple even 3rd world poor illiterate country could do it: just go to them instead. Our ID department has buses with computers and cameras/fingerprint machines on them, they go to remote villages and stuff and take everyone's bio data, then return a few weeks later and give everyone their cards. There is literally NO valid excuse for NOT implementing voter ID. NONE. If we can do it, the richest country in the world can do it. Such a pathetic hill for American Democratic party to die on.
- pasc1878 2y ago
  The problem in the US is they are not doing this if anything they are reducing the number of places you can get an ID.
  - ryzvonusef 2y ago
    The US is not a monolith, it's a collection of 50 states.... Democratic states collect taxes and implement policy independently, they CAN do this, at least in their own areas. Start there first!
    - aredox 2y ago
      https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz
      - ryzvonusef 2y ago
        I have been a John Oliver viewer from the first season, and my comment will be the same as what I said 9 years ago: This is bullship. Start small, but START. Start from Democrats accepting what every LEFT leaning person the rest of the world accepts: Photo ID is necessary, not to reduce voter fraud or whatever, but necessary to increase TRUST in the system. It's a cost, just pay it. Yes you will lose 'face' to republicans, don't care. Start small, start with free/cheap photo ID in deep democratic cities (I know local govt providing service, what an idea!). Once saturation reaches 80% plus, start enforcing voter ID laws to cajole the last 20% to start applying, carrot and stick. Start offering door-step service for those unable. Democrats pay taxes, don't they? start using them. Spread to other cities in democratic states. So what if it takes 10-20 year? Times passes like nothing. And once you have SET the standard of cheap, reliable access to Photo ID... and when democrats in power in the federal government again, they can use that to help implement cheap photo ID elsewhere, but even if Missouri doesn't get voter ID, it doesn't excuse democratic states NOT having it. The fact that the DMV is only open three days a month or whatever? If it's a democrat led city, FIX it. If it's a republican city, you can come to it later. But NOT starting, as some sort of fake 'rights' issue? Bullship. Start. Start Small, Start NOW. in 25 years you won't even remember this.
gambiting 2y ago
That would make sense if driver licences were difficult to obtain in US in any way shape or form, and they just aren't - almost everyone has one and it's not a big deal to get one.
- aredox 2y ago
  Provably false. https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz And you need to do paperwork, which means you have to pay and find time. How do people with 2 or 3 jobs do?
  - gambiting 2y ago
    91% of US adults have a driving licence: https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2024/01/number-of-licensed-drivers-us/ https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2024/01/number-of-licensed-dr... So forgive me for being flippant but....how hard can it be? >>How do people with 2 or 3 jobs do? I assume they drive to those 3 jobs, so they somehow found a way.Again, sorry for being dismissive, and I appreciate it might be time consuming at costly - but still, 91% of all American adults have found a way to do this, so my point is that driving licences(along other documents) seem like a perfectly acceptable form of ID for voting?
xwolfi 2y ago
I'm French too but I disagree a bit: first, voting if important to people, should be a good reason to get an ID, voting without an ID does seem insane, so what are they doing. Second, why black people ? Are they not human too ? They can read, they can work, they can complain, they can... get an ID card right ? Simplest answer is they don't care, wash their hands off of the whole thing and then democrats complain that it's the requirement to identify voters that block them. But it's not a strange requirement, it's as you say, a completely normal part of being a citizen to get an ID, and a duty for a voting citizen to do what they need to do to get that ballot in. And even if black people were somehow disenfranchised from getting IDs, it doesn't prevent the non-black people to vote rationally, in the end. So no excuse.
- CapricornNoble 2y ago
  >Second, why black people ? Are they not human too ? They can read, they can work, they can complain, they can... get an ID card right ? As a black American who had crackheads in my family, I don't know anyone who was totally incapable of getting an ID card. I only ever see the argument brought up by white people on the Internet. Tyranny of low expectations. Heaven forbid that black adults be expected to shoulder some personal responsibility and figure out how to meet the basic requirements to exercise their civic duties, same as white people. "The white liberal is the worst enemy to America, and the worst enemy to the black man." -- Malcom X
  - aredox 2y ago
    You should look a little bit closer to actual circumstances of people over the country. https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz
    - CapricornNoble 2y ago
      What aspect of this video do you think supports your position, specifically? My mother's side of my family is from North Philadelphia, same state as the first black woman featured in this video. I spent three weeks in the US in 2021 when my mother had a psychotic breakdown and I had to put her life back together on short notice. She had lost her wallet and all ID. I got her a brand new birth certificate in Philadelphia and a NJ State ID to replace her Driver's License. This required setting up some appointments either online or via phone, and bringing some documents along, but it was manageable. Expecting someone to have original birth certificate, SSN proof, and spouse's death certificate is....normal adult document management. I deal with a similar "burden of proof" every time I go to my local Japanese city office, or to immigration to renew our residency. The next anecdote in the segment blasts Sauk City, Wisconsin for the ID center being closed on most days. According to Copilot, Sauk City is 96% white, with a median household income over $78,000 and a population of less than 4000. So a small middle class town of white people rarely has the ID office open? How is that supposed to support the argument that mandatory ID requirements disproportionately affect minorities again? The second half of the John Oliver clip focuses on the voting events not the identification acquisition problem so I don't consider that part relevant and won't dissect it.
bawolff 2y ago
In canada, if you don't have an id, you can get someone who knows you (and has an id) to swear an oath you are who you say you are. You can also register at the same time you are voting. Seems to work fine. I dont think we have ever had any issues with that system.
- rstuart4133 2y ago
  Even more radical: in Australia you turn up at one of many polling stations with no ID whatsoever and vote. It works because voting in Australia is compulsory. They must have your name on their list, they cross if off it and hand over the ballot paper. The checks and balances you might expect and done after the event, making it fairly secure. Only of those checks is you did vote, and a fine follows if you didn't.
mrweasel 2y ago
> As a European I also find insane elections are held on workdays That's not really an issue, if you have enough polling stations. Denmark typically have elections on a Tuesday (but can technically be any day of the week). We have 80%+ turnout, one of the highest in the world, for countries without mandatory voting. The day of the week doesn't matter, IF you ensure that it sufficiently easy for people to vote. If you actively try to make it inconvenient/impossible for people to vote, then it doesn't matter if it's on a Sunday. My take is that part of the US political system need as few voters as possible to turn up in order to have a chance of winning, so they will make it as complicated and inconvenient as they need it to be.
- aredox 2y ago
  In a country where "some" people work two or three jobs to make ends meet, Sundays vs. workdays does matter.
- Vinnl 2y ago
  I do enjoy the idea of making election days days off, days to celebrate. But yes, it usually takes me about five minutes to vote in the Netherlands, so I don't really need the day off.
brightball 2y ago
Most states where voter id is mandatory also have policies where you can get a free ID and even a free ride to a location to get your ID. They implemented that in South Carolina and after the first few years, nobody used it. Because you have to have an ID to do almost everything else in the country so everybody already has an ID and opposition to voter ID makes no sense.
- tzs 2y ago
  "Free" ID generally means there is no fee paid to the issuer of the ID. It can cost hundreds of dollars to get the documents that you have to present to the issuer to get that "free" ID. Also many states have accompanied their stricter voter ID requirements with reducing the number of offices that process applications and with reducing the hours they accept applications so that even if you can get a free ride to an office you might have to take an unpaid day off from work to do so. That can be a significant loss for many poor workers. > Because you have to have an ID to do almost everything else in the country so everybody already has an ID and opposition to voter ID makes no sense. Yet many millions get by without an ID [1]. A lot of things you probably think cannot be done without an ID actually can. For example how can you cash a paycheck without an ID? You need an ID to open a bank account. An answer is you can cash checks using a third party endorsement. You don't need a bank for that. You just need a trusted friend who has a bank account. I'd guess that this is what the 6% of Americans without bank accounts do (23% among those making less than $25k/year) [2]. How about getting a job without ID? First, there are a lot of people who don't need jobs (e.g., the stay at home partner in a household where one partner works and the other takes care of the house). Second there are a lot of job that pay cash and are off the record. Also there are a fair number of people who once had ID but no longer do. It has been a very long time since I've actually needed to show my driver's license to anyone. My banking is all online, as is my check cashing (my bank has a great "deposit by photo" function). When I signed up for Medicare, Medigap, and a Part D plan that was all through ssa.gov and medicare.gov, with no need to show ID. That was apparently all covered by when I showed ID years ago when I set up ID.me as a login method for my ssa.gov account. It will likely be the same when I apply for Social Security benefits. Afterwards all my interaction with SS and Medicare should be through ssa.gov and medicare.gov. If when I'm older I am no longer fit to drive and let my driver's license expire and don't remember to get a state photo ID then there is a good chance I can live the rest of my life comfortably without ever running into anything where that causes problems. The simplest way, though, to see that it is possible to get by reasonably well without an ID is to note the large number of undocumented workers that the current administration is trying to kick out. They are able to come here, find places to live, and get paying jobs all without a state issued photo ID. Whatever they are doing citizens can do too. [1] https://www.voteriders.org/analysis-millions-lack-voter-id/ https://www.voteriders.org/analysis-millions-lack-voter-id/ [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/02/23percent-of-low-income-americans-are-living-without-a-bank-account.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/02/23percent-of-low-income-amer...
weberer 2y ago
>Whereas in a country like the US, it means missing several days of work, driving potentially hundreds of kilometers Where did you hear this? When I lived in Pennsylvania, it was really easy to get a state ID. Just go into the DMV, show them your documents, pay the fee ($42 now), and you have your ID within the hour. They had centers all around the city, and they're open on Saturdays. Personally, I think this is an extremely weird hill for Democrats to want to die on. Most independent and swing voters think its a reasonable requirement.

tpm 2y ago

It's a different culture, one which is not used to have and use a national ID, which is completely common in the EU (with the exception of Ireland perhaps?)

christkv 2y ago
That’s not true. I lived there for nearly a decade and you use driving licenses for id and there are other forms for id as well that don’t include the passport. You need ID to do a lot of stuff just like any other country.
- tpm 2y ago
  What is not true? A driving license may be a defacto ID, but it is not a dejure, designated national ID card. It's a different system. In the EU countries the ID cards are backed by a more-or-less central civil register. (as an aside, it would be very funny to me if the they used the driving license for electronic signing of official communication with the authorities like we use it in some countries in the EU).
pton_xd 2y ago
Driver's license is the defacto ID used everywhere. Which kind of makes no sense but that's the way it is. Just about everyone has one and arguments that requiring an ID to vote would disenfranchise citizens don't sound believable to me.
- aredox 2y ago
  Just look at actual facts. There are many links in this thread. You also seem to think everyone has a car and thus a driving licence. And that's before talking about voter roll purges, gerrymandering and putting ballot boxes and stations away from "certain type" of voters.
  - gambiting 2y ago
    >>You also seem to think everyone has a car and thus a driving licence I don't see how those two are related. In UK driving licences are also used as de facto ID everywhere(you can even get on domestic flights using your driving licence lol), and everyone gets one when they turn 18 because just get a provisional driving licence(identical to a normal one but with an L on it to indicate learner driver), no car necessary. In effect everyone in the country has a driving licence even if they don't drive or own a car. And you just apply by post, no need to go anywhere, Obviously it would be much better to do it like other European countries do it and just issue everyone with an actual ID when they turn 18, but what UK is doing is close enough equivalent of this. So if the US has the DMV and already has an easily accessible way for people to get driving licences......what's the problem?

suzzer99 2y ago

a) Republicans did the math and figured out that a lot of people who vote Democrat didn't have IDs. Old black people, in particular, were not likely to have IDs. Republicans also did stuff like accept fishing and hunting licenses for voting, but not university ID. None of this is a secret. A think-tank called ALEC came up with it. In-person voter fraud, the only kind of election rigging that voter ID laws prevent, is next to impossible in the US system and basically never occurs on more than a one-off basis. b) A lot of those people who didn't have IDs have either gotten IDs or died off by now, so the Republican advantage of voter ID laws has faded. c) Given (b), Republicans have moved on to other tactics like voter purges, shutting down registration offices and polling stations to create long lines in urban districts, gerrymandering, and limiting early voting and mail in voting. One of their favorite tactics is limiting early-voting mailboxes to one per precinct, whether that precinct has 1,000 voters or 1,000,000. You can guess which way the crowded urban precincts tend to vote. The whole idea is just to put their thumb on the scale enough to discourage some small % of voters in the swing states that determine our president every four years. If you live in California, no one cares how you vote for President.

chgs 2y ago
Tory party did this in the uk. Old people bus pass is allowed. Student id card isn’t.
- thorin 2y ago
  Bus pass is issued by the government though. Student id is issued by the college. I know because I made one at the student union to help with getting into nightclubs (allegedly).
  - JKCalhoun 2y ago
    And here we created fake state-issued driver's licenses when I was in college. (Wish I could find a photo of a giant, fake driver's license on foam core with a rectangle cut out for the person to stand behind when a photo was taken.)
2y ago

tzs 2y ago

That's because you live someplace where the things described in the various links in this comment [1] do not happen or happen way less than they do in the US. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42116609 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42116609

IshKebab 2y ago

If it makes you feel any better the UK Conservatives tried this under the "we have to stop voting fraud" excuse. Turns out it backfired because the oldies couldn't figure out the new requirements leading to this scandalous quote from pantomime villain Jacob Reese-Mogg: > Parties that try and gerrymander end up finding that their clever scheme comes back to bite them, as dare I say we found by insisting on voter ID for elections. > We found the people who didn't have ID were elderly and they by and large voted Conservative, so we made it hard for our own voters and we upset a system that worked perfectly well.

razakel 2y ago
Even Boris Johnson was turned away from a polling station because he didn't have his ID with him.

Cthulhu_ 2y ago

I don't, but we have a functioning citizen registration system; every voting eligible citizen gets sent a voting card when elections come up. That can only work if you're registered and have a known address. "Illegal aliens" don't have that, so they can't vote. Foreign nationals that are registered / stay here legally also don't get voting rights so they simply don't get the voting card mailed to them. But also because of that registration, getting a kind of ID involves making an appointment at the county house, filling in a form and handing over a recent portrait photo. It's a bit of a hassle but nothing extreme.

matwood 2y ago

You've fallen victim to GOP propaganda. They use 'Voter ID' as a reasonable sounding shorthand for a lot of policies that just make it harder to vote. The other responders highlighted many of them.