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As a European Apple user I welcome any and all fines that can be levied on Apple for their anticompetitive practices.

gruez 2y ago
What's "anticompetitive" here? If the description provided in my previous comment is correct, it seems to be more of a failure on the part of the regulators than anything else. The EU (through GDPR) also wants some sort of affirmative consent for tracking. That's fair, and results in one prompt. However, iOS obviously can't accept a "trust me bro" from the app itself that it's okay to enable cross-app tracking, so you need a second prompt. The obvious solution would be to combine the two, by allowing the ATT prompt to be used as consent for the purposes of GDPR. Why didn't French regulators go with this solution and decide to fine Apple instead?
- refulgentis 2y ago
  "there is an "asymmetry" in which user consent for Apple's own data collection is obtained with a single pop-up, but other publishers are "required to obtain double consent from users for tracking on third-party sites and applications." more @ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24109695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24109695 (via https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/08/07/apple-ad-network-gets-special-privileges-that-facebook-google-wont-on-ios14/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/08/07/apple-a...) EDIT: Throttled, so reply can go here: > My previous comment directly addresses the "asymmetry" aspect. Apologies, you asked what the asymmetry was and I guess I'm still rather confused even after reviewing the thread. I think I've had too much caffeine...or not enough? :) > The obvious solution would be to combine the two, by allowing the ATT prompt to be used as consent for the purposes of GDPR. Why didn't French regulators go with this solution and decide to fine Apple instead? I've been involved in regulatory stuff before and it's considered overreach, generally, when the government does UX design for you. Hopefully, that's a solution Apple can consider, it's a great idea on your end, excellent for users and competition.
  - gruez 2y ago
    My previous comment directly addresses the "asymmetry" aspect. >The obvious solution would be to combine the two, by allowing the ATT prompt to be used as consent for the purposes of GDPR. Why didn't French regulators go with this solution and decide to fine Apple instead? edit: >Apologies, you asked what the asymmetry was and I guess I'm still rather confused even after reviewing the thread. I think I've had too much caffeine...or not enough? :) The point is, I can see where the "asymmetry" is, but I don't understand why they went decided to fine Apple rather than do something on their side (ie. rework the idea of consent in GDPR to allow for reusing the ATT prompt) to fix the "asymmetry". I think most people would agree that the ATT prompt from iOS must stay, and it's better to address the "asymmetry" by making third party apps more streamlined, than by making iOS worse[1]. That would be entirely within the French regulators' remit. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron
    - umbra07 2y ago
      > but I don't understand why they went decided You're assuming the regulators have no other motivations besides increasing consumer privacy?
frizlab 2y ago
As a European Apple user, I don’t. I specifically WANT the walled garden. It’s one of the reasons why I buy Apple.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  It's not as if this will remove that. The same with the sideloading. Nobody's forcing you to use it.
  - frizlab 2y ago
    And again, this argument is invalid.
sitkack 2y ago
I agree, Apple is enshittifying itself at the speed of light. They are were the least worst, but with a competitor like Android ... All I want is a decent map and signal and sometimes a browser.
ralfd 2y ago
As a European Apple user I want politicians and bureaucrats leave the company alone! They are not a monopoly, they never will be and won't have Microsofts 90% desktop market share, so let the damn market sort it out.
- Swenrekcah 2y ago
  The market does not work unless the rules of fair play are enforced, just like any other endeavour of humanity from sports to politics.
  - ralfd 2y ago
    The rules France applies here are not fair and user friendly though: https://daringfireball.net/2025/03/france_merde_decision_app_tracking_transparency https://daringfireball.net/2025/03/france_merde_decision_app... > The bureaucratic hurdles they impose are to the benefit, not detriment, of the surveillance ad industry. That’s now proven out by industry groups — the ones ATT successfully tempered — successfully getting France’s regulators to penalize Apple. Users don’t know how to lobby government bureaucracies. What the Autorité de la Concurrence is saying, in so many words, is that two layers of consent is too much, and the only one that’s necessary is the one that advertising lobbying groups don’t object to, not the one they do (but which users understand and like).

What's "anticompetitive" here? If the description provided in my previous comment is correct, it seems to be more of a failure on the part of the regulators than anything else. The EU (through GDPR) also wants some sort of affirmative consent for tracking. That's fair, and results in one prompt. However, iOS obviously can't accept a "trust me bro" from the app itself that it's okay to enable cross-app tracking, so you need a second prompt. The obvious solution would be to combine the two, by allowing the ATT prompt to be used as consent for the purposes of GDPR. Why didn't French regulators go with this solution and decide to fine Apple instead?

refulgentis 2y ago
"there is an "asymmetry" in which user consent for Apple's own data collection is obtained with a single pop-up, but other publishers are "required to obtain double consent from users for tracking on third-party sites and applications." more @ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24109695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24109695 (via https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/08/07/apple-ad-network-gets-special-privileges-that-facebook-google-wont-on-ios14/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/08/07/apple-a...) EDIT: Throttled, so reply can go here: > My previous comment directly addresses the "asymmetry" aspect. Apologies, you asked what the asymmetry was and I guess I'm still rather confused even after reviewing the thread. I think I've had too much caffeine...or not enough? :) > The obvious solution would be to combine the two, by allowing the ATT prompt to be used as consent for the purposes of GDPR. Why didn't French regulators go with this solution and decide to fine Apple instead? I've been involved in regulatory stuff before and it's considered overreach, generally, when the government does UX design for you. Hopefully, that's a solution Apple can consider, it's a great idea on your end, excellent for users and competition.
- gruez 2y ago
  My previous comment directly addresses the "asymmetry" aspect. >The obvious solution would be to combine the two, by allowing the ATT prompt to be used as consent for the purposes of GDPR. Why didn't French regulators go with this solution and decide to fine Apple instead? edit: >Apologies, you asked what the asymmetry was and I guess I'm still rather confused even after reviewing the thread. I think I've had too much caffeine...or not enough? :) The point is, I can see where the "asymmetry" is, but I don't understand why they went decided to fine Apple rather than do something on their side (ie. rework the idea of consent in GDPR to allow for reusing the ATT prompt) to fix the "asymmetry". I think most people would agree that the ATT prompt from iOS must stay, and it's better to address the "asymmetry" by making third party apps more streamlined, than by making iOS worse[1]. That would be entirely within the French regulators' remit. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron
  - umbra07 2y ago
    > but I don't understand why they went decided You're assuming the regulators have no other motivations besides increasing consumer privacy?

frizlab 2y ago

As a European Apple user, I don’t. I specifically WANT the walled garden. It’s one of the reasons why I buy Apple.

wkat4242 2y ago
It's not as if this will remove that. The same with the sideloading. Nobody's forcing you to use it.
- frizlab 2y ago
  And again, this argument is invalid.

sitkack 2y ago

I agree, Apple is enshittifying itself at the speed of light. They are were the least worst, but with a competitor like Android ... All I want is a decent map and signal and sometimes a browser.

ralfd 2y ago

As a European Apple user I want politicians and bureaucrats leave the company alone! They are not a monopoly, they never will be and won't have Microsofts 90% desktop market share, so let the damn market sort it out.

Swenrekcah 2y ago
The market does not work unless the rules of fair play are enforced, just like any other endeavour of humanity from sports to politics.
- ralfd 2y ago
  The rules France applies here are not fair and user friendly though: https://daringfireball.net/2025/03/france_merde_decision_app_tracking_transparency https://daringfireball.net/2025/03/france_merde_decision_app... > The bureaucratic hurdles they impose are to the benefit, not detriment, of the surveillance ad industry. That’s now proven out by industry groups — the ones ATT successfully tempered — successfully getting France’s regulators to penalize Apple. Users don’t know how to lobby government bureaucracies. What the Autorité de la Concurrence is saying, in so many words, is that two layers of consent is too much, and the only one that’s necessary is the one that advertising lobbying groups don’t object to, not the one they do (but which users understand and like).