13 ms·

I'm an external individual to the US, but I must admit that some of the sentiments being expressed here in this thread and elsewhere about the lack of accountab

by Folcon 2y ago

I'm an external individual to the US, but I must admit that some of the sentiments being expressed here in this thread and elsewhere about the lack of accountability deeply concern me, it reminds me of many things I saw growing up and still see today in south asia. Independent of anything else, I do see the overton window shifting in the US, the most subtle of which are norms and expectations around acts of corruption. Every nation has it's minor acts of corruption, small favours between friends, which I've always thought of as being functionally impossible to remove as they also allow for a flexible environment which allows things to get done. However the norms seem to be shifting more towards the idea that those in power can act as they will, and in fact the expected thing is they will act to enrich themselves. I hope this does not happen, because this is death to entrepreneurship, this is one of those things that will poison the economy, when people no longer trust that what they make can be theirs, that others can look on in envy at the work they have built on their blood and sweat and can take it as their due because they have power. That will create a chilling effect for anyone who wishes to create and will make them wonder as myself and many others have considered, whether it's better to create their life's work elsewhere. I sincerely hope this doesn't happen here, once this mindset becomes a norm, it's incredibly hard thing to stamp out.

20after4 2y ago
It's so much worse than that already. If corruption was the only problem we face in the US then there might be some real hope to reverse course.
- bsenftner 2y ago
  The corruption is caused by their short sightedness, a total lack of critical analysis capacity to see past the surface assessment of pretty much everything. The problem in the United States is that adults are no longer adults, we manufacture immature people with simplistic world views that seriously know no better, and they have the entire Republican Party hostage, a material percentage of the Democratic Party, and in general the USA is awash in a state of noncommunication because such people cannot see past their immediate assessments to find any common ground. Sure, we have real adults, but not enough to make a critical difference in the quality of our public discourse, to reverse this nose dive.
  - noboostforyou 2y ago
    Bingo! And the sadder part is this isn't even anything new, but it's all come to a head now. “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ― Isaac Asimov, 1980
    - belter 2y ago
      Shame he did not take to the obvious conclusion that is now in evidence. The idea that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge" has been instrumentalized. This relativism is encouraged, not because people genuinely believe all views are equal, but because it neutralizes inconvenient truths. If no one can claim authority, then no one can hold power accountable.
    - AStonesThrow 2y ago
      > The strain of anti-intellectualism Perhaps part of the problem is that snooty intellectual elitists want everyone to be geopolitical geniuses and socially activist and fight for their hobby horses, when every nation, especially large ones, are in desperate need of people who mind their own business, keep their heads down, and contribute humbly to the common good. Rather than being pushed through university and having technology shoved everywhere into their faces and bombarding them with messages from liars and hucksters at every step. I honestly regret gaining knowledge about a lot of things that concern me because while “knowledge is power” it’s also known that “ignorance is bliss” because curiosity killed the cat. If we’re a nation that stands and falls on the strength of social media disputes then perhaps it’s time to let the best bots win.
      - noboostforyou 2y ago
        > are in desperate need of people who mind their own business, keep their heads down, and contribute humbly to the common good. What do you even mean by this? Unless I'm misunderstanding, your comment sounds like you are advocating for a "let them eat cake" ideology. Do you think our current administration exemplifies the three things you say we are in desperate need of?
- belter 2y ago
  The full text now: "The statements by Hegseth, Gabbard, Ratcliffe, and Trump—combined with the assertions made by numerous administration officials that we are lying about the content of the Signal texts—have led us to believe that people should see the texts in order to reach their own conclusions. There is a clear public interest in disclosing the sort of information that Trump advisers included in nonsecure communications channels, especially because senior administration figures are attempting to downplay the significance of the messages that were shared..." https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/03/signal-group-chat-attack-plans-hegseth-goldberg/682176/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/03/signal-... "Here are the Attack Plans That Trump's Advisers Shared on Signal" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43481521 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43481521
bigbacaloa 2y ago
[dead]
dyauspitr 2y ago
Yes, unfortunately we’re already at that point. Republicans and their base close ranks so effectively that it’s essentially a safe haven for all sorts of corruption and serious crime. The voters won’t punish them at the ballot and they’ve essentially captured all sources of checks and balances.
- wernercd 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - aredox 2y ago
    DOGE is not "an audit of the government". It is a propaganda exercise based on lies, whose only effect will be to make the government - and citizens - lose more money (for ex. see NOAA). https://doge.muskwatch.com/ https://doge.muskwatch.com/ An audit would be listing and flagging items for review. What DOGE is doing is actually taking the decision of cutting stuff, without review, as retribution, to fully capture the state for the GOP and Musk. Trump immediatly fired every inspector general as soon as he could (in violation of federal law). https://www.axios.com/2025/01/25/trump-fires-inspectors-general https://www.axios.com/2025/01/25/trump-fires-inspectors-gene...
- sureglymop 2y ago
  It's Republicans and Democrats. You're in this position in the first place because you have no real political diversity. It's not gonna change in that two party system either.
  - sethammons 2y ago
    Vote for ranked choice voting, starting at the local levels. Grade school needs rank choice voting activities to help make it feel familiar.
    - Projectiboga 2y ago
      I'd suggest you look at Aporoval Voting as a simpler solution than Ranked Choice. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting
fpoling 2y ago
> because this is death to entrepreneurship This does not follow. Even in highly corrupt authoritarian countries entrepreneurship can flourish. Just consider Turkey or Russia. In such places one quickly learn whom to pay with corruption payouts becoming business expenses.
- jaredklewis 2y ago
  Does entrepreneurship flourish in Russia? This would surprise me just because its GDP is smaller than Italy's, and around 17% of it is oil and gas. CAGR for past 10 years in Russia is ~1.5% (compared with ~2.3% for the US). Just seems logical to me that if entrepreneurship was flourishing, we would see more economic growth as a result.
  - fp64 2y ago
    You can’t take the GDP in US$ for comparison, given the sanctions and all. PPP is a better means. I do not know about entrepreneurship, but I do know that a Russian’s average purchase power is significantly higher than what you might expect from just looking at the GDP
    - jaredklewis 2y ago
      It might be true that we can’t compare gdp between Russia and other countries, but even if so, wouldn’t we see a growth in GDP over time (ie comparing Russia to itself)?
  - fpoling 2y ago
    Russia has been spending all gains in economy on military for the last 15 years. Ability of local businessmen to quickly find new trading partners in Asia is one of the primary reasons Russian economy did not collapsed under suctions and the war.
    - flakeoil 2y ago
      It's thanks to oil, gas and minerals exports they have managed to keep the russian economy going. Not thanks to entrepreneurship or some russian made products. They also stole a lot of western companies and their assets.
jimt1234 2y ago
The ends justify the means is now openly accepted, even celebrated.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- e40 2y ago
  And conflicts of interest don’t exist.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
mentalgear 2y ago
I'd recommend for Entrepreneurs, just like Scientists now do, to consider Europe as a safe-haven. In the EU the rule of law still matters.
- somenameforme 2y ago
  The grass isn't always greener. I think the core underlying issue at all of this is social divides within countries. When groups of people become sufficiently antagonistic towards one another, it really enables widespread corruption because people will actively blind themselves (or handwave away) to the wrongs of "their side" and magnify the wrongs of "the other side" with no limits to the hyperbole. And Europe is most certainly not an exception to this, especially in current times. For instance 65% of EU citizens do not believe that high level corruption is sufficiently pursued. [1] And basically every EU country (outside of Scandiland) has a majority to vast majority who believe that corruption is widespread in their country. [1] - https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/3217 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/3217
  - inamorty 2y ago
    But public perception doesn’t necessarily reflect actual levels of corruption. Having dodgy planning approved is not the same as buying a seat at the head of the government for a quarter billion dollars.
    - j16sdiz 2y ago
      Public perception do not reflect actual corruption, but it affects how likely people try to start a new business. IMO, this is more important.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - codingbot3000 2y ago
      I'd say US corruption is now more transparent than EU corruption :D That was once different, with Berlusconi at the helm in Italy while owning the major TV outlets.
gadders 2y ago
[flagged]
- greenie_beans 2y ago
  if you don't think the current executive branch is corrupt......good luck in life!
- sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - khazhoux 2y ago
    You shouldn't ever tell anyone here to fuck off. It's not polite. You may get penalized. That said, your examples are indeed corruption. But the parent did not make any equivalency. He gave purported examples of corruption. One can say that they're unsubstantiated, but that's a different argument.
    - sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
      I'm no longer willing to be quiet or polite on these topics. Luckily, HN accounts are cheap. And yes, saying "If you want to look at corruption in the US" and then avoiding mentioning the extremely large and very apparent corruption actively happening right now in the Trump admin - that is intentionally creating a false equivalency by implicitly saying "what's happening right now doesn't matter it's the same old same old."
  - gadders 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
      Oh hey it's that unserious person I interacted with recently in a different thread. So you're OK with the Trump admin's rampant corruption?
boppo1 2y ago
>when people no longer trust that what they make can be theirs, that others can look on in envy at the work they have built on their blood and sweat and can take it as their due because they have power. We just need liberals to embrace the 2nd with as much fervor as the right.
brandensilva 2y ago
I'm already feeling like entrepreneurship is out the window. It's a combination of AI being owned from these mega corporations and corruption at the highest level that I'm losing sight of what is the purpose building my startup business in an authoritarian landscape. Trump illegally promoting Elon's corporation with a yard sale, kissing his feet for donating millions to his campaign thanks to citizens united, allowing him to ransack the federal government as an unelected official, to making vandalism a domestic terrorist act for people fed up when him,and now putting Elon in charge of investigating Signalgate. People need to stand up now before they cannot.

by Folcon 2y ago

20after4 2y ago

It's so much worse than that already. If corruption was the only problem we face in the US then there might be some real hope to reverse course.

bsenftner 2y ago
The corruption is caused by their short sightedness, a total lack of critical analysis capacity to see past the surface assessment of pretty much everything. The problem in the United States is that adults are no longer adults, we manufacture immature people with simplistic world views that seriously know no better, and they have the entire Republican Party hostage, a material percentage of the Democratic Party, and in general the USA is awash in a state of noncommunication because such people cannot see past their immediate assessments to find any common ground. Sure, we have real adults, but not enough to make a critical difference in the quality of our public discourse, to reverse this nose dive.
- noboostforyou 2y ago
  Bingo! And the sadder part is this isn't even anything new, but it's all come to a head now. “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ― Isaac Asimov, 1980
  - belter 2y ago
    Shame he did not take to the obvious conclusion that is now in evidence. The idea that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge" has been instrumentalized. This relativism is encouraged, not because people genuinely believe all views are equal, but because it neutralizes inconvenient truths. If no one can claim authority, then no one can hold power accountable.
  - AStonesThrow 2y ago
    > The strain of anti-intellectualism Perhaps part of the problem is that snooty intellectual elitists want everyone to be geopolitical geniuses and socially activist and fight for their hobby horses, when every nation, especially large ones, are in desperate need of people who mind their own business, keep their heads down, and contribute humbly to the common good. Rather than being pushed through university and having technology shoved everywhere into their faces and bombarding them with messages from liars and hucksters at every step. I honestly regret gaining knowledge about a lot of things that concern me because while “knowledge is power” it’s also known that “ignorance is bliss” because curiosity killed the cat. If we’re a nation that stands and falls on the strength of social media disputes then perhaps it’s time to let the best bots win.
    - noboostforyou 2y ago
      > are in desperate need of people who mind their own business, keep their heads down, and contribute humbly to the common good. What do you even mean by this? Unless I'm misunderstanding, your comment sounds like you are advocating for a "let them eat cake" ideology. Do you think our current administration exemplifies the three things you say we are in desperate need of?
belter 2y ago
The full text now: "The statements by Hegseth, Gabbard, Ratcliffe, and Trump—combined with the assertions made by numerous administration officials that we are lying about the content of the Signal texts—have led us to believe that people should see the texts in order to reach their own conclusions. There is a clear public interest in disclosing the sort of information that Trump advisers included in nonsecure communications channels, especially because senior administration figures are attempting to downplay the significance of the messages that were shared..." https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/03/signal-group-chat-attack-plans-hegseth-goldberg/682176/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/03/signal-... "Here are the Attack Plans That Trump's Advisers Shared on Signal" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43481521 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43481521

bigbacaloa 2y ago

[dead]

dyauspitr 2y ago

Yes, unfortunately we’re already at that point. Republicans and their base close ranks so effectively that it’s essentially a safe haven for all sorts of corruption and serious crime. The voters won’t punish them at the ballot and they’ve essentially captured all sources of checks and balances.

wernercd 2y ago
[flagged]
- aredox 2y ago
  DOGE is not "an audit of the government". It is a propaganda exercise based on lies, whose only effect will be to make the government - and citizens - lose more money (for ex. see NOAA). https://doge.muskwatch.com/ https://doge.muskwatch.com/ An audit would be listing and flagging items for review. What DOGE is doing is actually taking the decision of cutting stuff, without review, as retribution, to fully capture the state for the GOP and Musk. Trump immediatly fired every inspector general as soon as he could (in violation of federal law). https://www.axios.com/2025/01/25/trump-fires-inspectors-general https://www.axios.com/2025/01/25/trump-fires-inspectors-gene...
sureglymop 2y ago
It's Republicans and Democrats. You're in this position in the first place because you have no real political diversity. It's not gonna change in that two party system either.
- sethammons 2y ago
  Vote for ranked choice voting, starting at the local levels. Grade school needs rank choice voting activities to help make it feel familiar.
  - Projectiboga 2y ago
    I'd suggest you look at Aporoval Voting as a simpler solution than Ranked Choice. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting

fpoling 2y ago

> because this is death to entrepreneurship This does not follow. Even in highly corrupt authoritarian countries entrepreneurship can flourish. Just consider Turkey or Russia. In such places one quickly learn whom to pay with corruption payouts becoming business expenses.

jaredklewis 2y ago
Does entrepreneurship flourish in Russia? This would surprise me just because its GDP is smaller than Italy's, and around 17% of it is oil and gas. CAGR for past 10 years in Russia is ~1.5% (compared with ~2.3% for the US). Just seems logical to me that if entrepreneurship was flourishing, we would see more economic growth as a result.
- fp64 2y ago
  You can’t take the GDP in US$ for comparison, given the sanctions and all. PPP is a better means. I do not know about entrepreneurship, but I do know that a Russian’s average purchase power is significantly higher than what you might expect from just looking at the GDP
  - jaredklewis 2y ago
    It might be true that we can’t compare gdp between Russia and other countries, but even if so, wouldn’t we see a growth in GDP over time (ie comparing Russia to itself)?
- fpoling 2y ago
  Russia has been spending all gains in economy on military for the last 15 years. Ability of local businessmen to quickly find new trading partners in Asia is one of the primary reasons Russian economy did not collapsed under suctions and the war.
  - flakeoil 2y ago
    It's thanks to oil, gas and minerals exports they have managed to keep the russian economy going. Not thanks to entrepreneurship or some russian made products. They also stole a lot of western companies and their assets.

jimt1234 2y ago

The ends justify the means is now openly accepted, even celebrated.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
e40 2y ago
And conflicts of interest don’t exist.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

mentalgear 2y ago

I'd recommend for Entrepreneurs, just like Scientists now do, to consider Europe as a safe-haven. In the EU the rule of law still matters.

somenameforme 2y ago
The grass isn't always greener. I think the core underlying issue at all of this is social divides within countries. When groups of people become sufficiently antagonistic towards one another, it really enables widespread corruption because people will actively blind themselves (or handwave away) to the wrongs of "their side" and magnify the wrongs of "the other side" with no limits to the hyperbole. And Europe is most certainly not an exception to this, especially in current times. For instance 65% of EU citizens do not believe that high level corruption is sufficiently pursued. [1] And basically every EU country (outside of Scandiland) has a majority to vast majority who believe that corruption is widespread in their country. [1] - https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/3217 https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/3217
- inamorty 2y ago
  But public perception doesn’t necessarily reflect actual levels of corruption. Having dodgy planning approved is not the same as buying a seat at the head of the government for a quarter billion dollars.
  - j16sdiz 2y ago
    Public perception do not reflect actual corruption, but it affects how likely people try to start a new business. IMO, this is more important.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - codingbot3000 2y ago
    I'd say US corruption is now more transparent than EU corruption :D That was once different, with Berlusconi at the helm in Italy while owning the major TV outlets.

gadders 2y ago

[flagged]

greenie_beans 2y ago
if you don't think the current executive branch is corrupt......good luck in life!
sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
[flagged]
- khazhoux 2y ago
  You shouldn't ever tell anyone here to fuck off. It's not polite. You may get penalized. That said, your examples are indeed corruption. But the parent did not make any equivalency. He gave purported examples of corruption. One can say that they're unsubstantiated, but that's a different argument.
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
    I'm no longer willing to be quiet or polite on these topics. Luckily, HN accounts are cheap. And yes, saying "If you want to look at corruption in the US" and then avoiding mentioning the extremely large and very apparent corruption actively happening right now in the Trump admin - that is intentionally creating a false equivalency by implicitly saying "what's happening right now doesn't matter it's the same old same old."
- gadders 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
    Oh hey it's that unserious person I interacted with recently in a different thread. So you're OK with the Trump admin's rampant corruption?

boppo1 2y ago

>when people no longer trust that what they make can be theirs, that others can look on in envy at the work they have built on their blood and sweat and can take it as their due because they have power. We just need liberals to embrace the 2nd with as much fervor as the right.

brandensilva 2y ago

I'm already feeling like entrepreneurship is out the window. It's a combination of AI being owned from these mega corporations and corruption at the highest level that I'm losing sight of what is the purpose building my startup business in an authoritarian landscape. Trump illegally promoting Elon's corporation with a yard sale, kissing his feet for donating millions to his campaign thanks to citizens united, allowing him to ransack the federal government as an unelected official, to making vandalism a domestic terrorist act for people fed up when him,and now putting Elon in charge of investigating Signalgate. People need to stand up now before they cannot.