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Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska

172 points by vinnyglennon 2y ago

vkou 2y ago
It's been considered, but it's not going to help much. A tiny percentage of Alaska's goods come through BC. Instead, alternative markets and surcharges for potash, minerals, energy, counter tariffs and bans of American goods, expanding interprovincial trade, bans on government procurement from the US, bans on American propaganda and media should be sufficient. And re-armament. Given that it's clear that America cannot ever again be trusted, (electing Trump once was an accident, twice is actively malicious), and given that it's likely compromised by Russia, it should be considered what it is - a dangerous, unstable, suicidal foreign adversary. A kind of North Korea, but with nuclear weapons.
- JoshTriplett 2y ago
  > It's been considered, but it's not going to help much. It may not help much in terms of revenue, but it may help with public perception. People spend a lot of time and energy in their car. Think about how much people talk about gas prices as a measure of whatever politicians they think are responsible for them.
- guesswho_ 2y ago
  [flagged]
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  Yeah, I'm not sure it won't be worse than you think. I think about 8% or so of goods to AK go by truck along the Al-Can. I suspect though there is a very good reason for that 8%. You force that 8% on to ship or by air and I suspect whatever that cargo was is going to get a good deal pricier or a good deal late.
- kansface 2y ago
  North Korea _has_ nuclear weapons.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
yatopifo 2y ago
That makes perfect sense. It puzzles me why supporters of the current US regime think Canada won’t resist the US. Be it a trade war or a military invasion, Canada will make the cost so great that it may eliminate the US from the world arena. Canada has been cornered and has nothing to lose at this point.
- a-priori 2y ago
  It's incorrect to think of Canada as being "cornered" here nor having "nothing to lose". It's the US that's isolating itself. Canada isn't 'cornered'. It has the entire rest of the world to talk to and make deals with. It has everything to lose by continuing to rely on the US, which is why you're seeing such a hard pivot toward Europe and Asia.
  - BobbyJo 2y ago
    I wouldn't color relying on a historical ally that either produces, or is the transit corridor for, most of your food with "everything to lose". The current trade spat is an issue, and Canada should react accordingly, but the reality is that, even with tariffs, the US still represents a very profitable trade partner, especially when they can levy tariffs of their own.
    - watwut 2y ago
      The issue is not limited to tariffs. There is consistent hostile rhetoric against Canada by multiple members of administration. And by hostile I mean threats of annexation, demands that Canada gives USA parts of its land and false accusations. Tariffs are only part of the issue. They seem the be the first USA step meant to weaken Canada economically before USA proceeds to steal from from it.
      - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
        Exactly this. It's interesting watching how Americans are talking about this issue vs Canadians. Even my liberal friends in the US think it's more "Silly" and "Troll" behaviour on Trump's part -- "you're not taking that seriously, are you?" Yes, we're taking it seriously. It wasn't some one-off tweet. He's the official head of state and silence from the rest of the GOP and the US political class generally isn't exactly doing anything to calm tensions. We faced heavy tariff threats under 1.0 and it wasn't anything like this. The reaction here isn't really about trade at all. It's about sovereignty. The US is the only country that has ever invaded us.
kps 2y ago
Should also toll the ‘shortcut’ between Detroit and Buffalo for foreign high-axle-weight vehicles like transport trucks and maybe some electric cars.
- tcgv 2y ago
  It looks like the longer route adds about 1 hour and 30 minutes. So, truck drivers would compare the toll price, additional gas usage, and the schedule change to determine if paying is worthwhile, thus limiting how much the toll could effectively charge.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
    They also have the cost of maintaining the roads that the truck drivers are using. They might decide that a toll that brings that cost down is still a worthwhile toll even if it doesn't bring in money.
- phkahler 2y ago
  >> Should also toll the ‘shortcut’ between Detroit and Buffalo for foreign high-axle-weight vehicles like transport trucks and maybe some electric cars. Nah, Canada ships too much trash to Michigan to go after one of those crossings. Yes it's weird that part of the US is used as another first world countries garbage dump. I've never looked in to why this is happens. Maybe we could put a tariff on trash?
  - kps 2y ago
    > I've never looked in to why this is happens. Toronto. Low bidder. We're sorry.
andy_ppp 2y ago
I’m surprised all the countries the US is trying to bully aren’t considering moving to the Euro as the reserve currency (even China might go along with this). It would be so damaging for the US they might actually understand they have been benefiting from a win-win situation since the end of the Second World War.
- dave4420 2y ago
  I suspect many countries would prefer a Chinese reserve currency to a European one, due to past bad experiences of being ruled by Europeans. But even on a purely economic level… does the Eurozone even have a larger economy than China? I can see countries moving away from USD, but I don’t see them coalescing around a single alternative.
  - FreebasingLLMs 2y ago
    [dead]
  - magneticstain 2y ago
    I would suspect that some countries would definitely go to China due to the more sizable economy. But a large number of others - especially those with more democratic idealogies - would go with the Euro.
  - malcolmgreaves 2y ago
    The RMB is a terrible reserve currency since the CCP can just arbitrarily change its value by decree.
    - dave4420 2y ago
      Sure — but if the CCP decided it wanted the benefits of owning a reserve currency, it could change that. Then suddenly it looks more attractive.
  - psychlops 2y ago
    China would absolutely not want to have a reserve currency. Their export economy would be destroyed overnight.
sriram_malhar 2y ago
It seems everyone is part of the "Not American Treaty Organization".
gadflyinyoureye 2y ago
Well if Trump is looking for a reason to invade, he’ll have one he can promote. I don’t agree with it it, but he can say, “they’re cutting us off from our people!” Then he’ll invade BC to form a contiguous border to all our territories. Hell based on the representatives going to DC to discuss making Alberta a state, he’ll probably gin up even more support.
- hypeatei 2y ago
  So, a solution to a problem that he created? Interesting.
  - gadflyinyoureye 2y ago
    Yes. That’s what he does.
- barbazoo 2y ago
  First of all > The bill does not automatically impose fees on vehicles, but it “just gives BC the tools to do so down the road if Trump continues to escalate his threats towards BC and Canada,” according to a statement from the provincial Ministry of Transportation and Transit. Also this > The government of British Columbia filed legislation Thursday that would permit the province to levy tolls on vehicles between the Lower 48 and Alaska. No one is yet doing anything and no one is cutting anyone off.
  - gadflyinyoureye 2y ago
    That’s not how Trump will spin this. He’s going to pander to some idea of right to move between territorial holdings. He can whip his base up to request an invasion. There are few republicans that are willing to stand up to Trump. That’s why we have the idiocy of impeachment against judges.
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  > Well if Trump is looking for a reason to invade You say that as though this is someone who would require even a modicum of rationale to act.
cynicalsecurity 2y ago
This dynamic isn’t really good. I understand Canada didn’t start it, but I really don’t like these dynamics.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
  How do you think Canada should react to a neighboring country that not only unilaterally declared a trade war but also continues to threaten to annex them? Appeasing bullies does. not. work.
  - kyboren 2y ago
    > How do you think Canada should react? As a friendly porcupine. > Appeasing bullies does. not. work. This isn't a schoolyard bully situation. This is something like an Odysseus vs. Polyphemus situation. It calls for wit and guile, not open aggression and escalation.
kolanos 2y ago
[flagged]
- oalders 2y ago
  This seems like a reasonable fact check on dairy tarrifs: https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/10/politics/trump-canada-dairy-tariffs-fact-check/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/10/politics/trump-canada-dairy-t...
  - kolanos 2y ago
    It seems like a completely misleading "fact check" to me when you actually read the Wikipedia article I linked. > Those high tariffs kick in only after the US has hit a certain Trump-negotiated quantity of tariff-free dairy sales to Canada each year – and as the US dairy industry acknowledges, the US is not hitting its allowed zero-tariff maximum in any category of dairy product. 1. The USMCA was agreed upon in 2020, but it has largely not taken effect yet as ratification is scheduled for 2026. So the "Trump negotiated" claim is false right out of the gate. Any terms Trump negotiated have not even taken effect yet. We're still under the NAFTA terms. 2. These quotas are very low. The new increased quota scheduled for 2026 is 3.6%. What does this mean? It means for dairy products, the U.S. can only export as much dairy product into Canada until it reaches 3.6% of Canada's total dairy market share. After that, you see 160-300% tariffs applied to those dairy products. 3. The claim that the U.S. is not hitting its dairy tariff maximum is true, but again, this is misleading. The reason for this is that Canada is granting such a small portion of their dairy market to the U.S. (3.6%) that it isn't worthwhile for many U.S. dairy producers to even bother. This is by design. If you can't compete with the other 96.4% of the market without seeing your goods being slapped with up to 300% tariffs, why would you? > In 2015, the three top dairy imports into Canada were specialty cheeses, milk protein concentrates (MPCs) and whey products. The largest suppliers into Canada were the United States, New Zealand, France and Italy. That should tell you something? Dairy producers are only exporting specialized dairy products into Canada, including non U.S. ones. 4. The U.S. isn't the only country with a problem with Canada's tariffs. [0] > Ten dairy industry organisations, including the Dairy Companies Association of New Zealand (DCANZ) and other dairy industry leaders from the US, EU, Argentina, Australia, and Mexico, co-signed a letter to request that their governments intervene in ending Canada's "new and harmful" 'Special Milk Class 7' mechanism by potentially entering a complaint through the WTO's Dispute Settlement System (DSS), a process which could take several years to conclude. This is just one of many disputes Canada's trading partners have had regarding Canada's protectionist tariff policies. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_and_poultry_supply_management_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_and_poultry_supply_manag...
josefritzishere 2y ago
[flagged]
mindslight 2y ago
How small-minded Trumpism is, just frustrated lashing out at things they refuse to understand. Canada has been so close to the US we would lovingly joke about it being "the 51st state". Canada's cities are all pressed up against the US border precisely because it's so tightly economically integrated with the US. We share the world's longest undefended "border" for a reason. The small minded neofascists think that someone being part of their sphere of influence must mean they can shit on them, tell them it's caviar, and they'll lap it up and come back for more. It's like they can't see that Canada (along with most of the rest of the world) was already strongly aligned with the US, in favor of some stupid imagined written on paper "ownership" direct-command relationship. They really can't get past the two bits in front of them and see larger constructive situations, at all. (I'm of course talking about all the useful idiots cheering this on, and enabling it by not impeaching. The Manchurian Candidate himself is just following the directions of Russia/China supplied by his handlers directly into his cancerous ego.)
- mooxie 2y ago
  They are consistently on the wrong side of Chesterton's fence. Many of them were completely blind to politics until 2016 and have suddenly entered the chat with no context or background on what they're talking about. They assume, ignorantly, that everything that they can't immediately understand is a needless barrier erected for no reason and without context. This is a very intentional worldview organized, funded, and distributed by - shocker! - powerful people who find themselves constrained by the law.
  - mindslight 2y ago
    It's especially galling to me. I'm libertarian. If you communicated the Trump 2024 platform back in time to me in 2012, I'd be stoked that many of these issues were finally being talked about. I wanted to be having honest conversations about decentralizing federal power to the states, reducing monetary inflation and no longer taking being the world reserve currency for granted, dismantling the DEI-HR industrial complex, etc. But cheering to demolish the plane while you're still flying on it is just a special kind of stupid. So really, it's the age-old political dynamic where frustrations with the current system are used as fuel for the next round of destruction, looting, and centralizing of power. It's why the Trump appointees are a menagerie of malcontents. Each has achieved popularity from criticizing the status quo on their own pet topic, but without constructive solutions. And now they don't need to actually agree on anything apart from the need to butcher our institutions.
barbazoo 2y ago
> The bill does not automatically impose fees on vehicles, but it “just gives BC the tools to do so down the road if Trump continues to escalate his threats towards BC and Canada,” according to a statement from the provincial Ministry of Transportation and Transit.
hypeatei 2y ago
I don't understand any of the justifications for a trade war with Canada. IIRC, Trump was fudging numbers by only including the "goods" part of "goods & services" so the deficit looked worse than it actually was (assuming a deficit is even bad in the first place) It's also bewildering that Trump literally negotiated a trade deal in his first term with Mexico and Canada but is now saying we're getting screwed? Is this the "art of the deal" he always talks about?
- mig39 2y ago
  Canada's market is 10% of the USA. Of course there's going to be an imbalance in trade. Trump doesn't understand this, and he thinks that it means that Canada (the government) is literally ripping off the USA. Just like he doesn't understand that tariffs are paid by the buyer, not the government of the seller. Finally, the current trade treaty between Canada-USA-Mexico was negotiated by Trump himself, and it replaced NAFTA. When he says it's a bad deal, why is nobody pointing out that he negotiated it? And famously said it was the best trade deal in history.
  - busyant 2y ago
    > When he says it's a bad deal, why is nobody pointing out that he negotiated it? And famously said it was the best trade deal in history. Every sane person is pointing it out. But the asymmetry of lies and indifference to those lies by a large swathe of the electorate is terrifying. I have no idea how to fight this.
    - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
      My take is that part of this is the fact that the US far right took an interest in Canada after the "trucker" convoy protest here during COVID. Multiple Fox segments on what a terrible "communist" place Canada is. And so it's become a brainworm in Trump's head, among a bunch of others. And a useful demagogic point to distract or rile up his base with. (Nevermind that DHS would have shot some of those protesters on site if the same kind of protests had occurred on the US side of the border. There's a reason the convoy was mobilized towards Ottawa and not to Washington, even though the vaccine requirements for truckers were actually a Biden regime initiative.) That and a generally liberal government holding power directly on your border, in the same linguistic/cultural/economic mileux has potential domestic consequences / threat.
rgrieselhuber 2y ago
Alaska is USA
- drpossum 2y ago
  Thank you for clarifying.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
  You may not be aware, but Alaska is not part of the blob of 48 contiguous states. If you want to get from the main body of the US to Alaska over land, you'll have to cross Canadian territory.
  - quesera 2y ago
    HN title says "... road access from USA to Alaska". "Contiguous USA to Alaska" would be fine, but ~"USA to USA" is poorly-worded. Not confusing, mind you. Just poorly-worded! If you spend any time living in Hawaii or Alaska, and then move to the mainland, you will receive a shockingly high frequency of questions about what it's like to move to the US. GP might have similar experiences. For non-US readers, or for the geopolitically-unaware, Hawaii and Alaska became US territories in the late 1800s, but didn't become states until 1959.
  - rgrieselhuber 2y ago
    And Alaska is still in the USA, so my critique of the title stands. If it had said 48 contiguous states it would have been accurate.
    - sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
      The context made it perfectly clear without additional words.
      - rgrieselhuber 2y ago
        This is HN, the whole point of this site is to comment on every little detail on anything we see.
nullorempty 2y ago
[flagged]
- drpossum 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - DaSHacka 2y ago
    > In Comments > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." > Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. > Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes. > Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. From: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- adamgordonbell 2y ago
  You are calling for the invasion of your own country? Surely you realize that is a very fringe view.
  - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    There is such an echo chamber among the Albertan far right that they fail to see exactly what a fringe community they are. Unfortunately they have deep pockets because of funding from the US.
    - nullorempty 2y ago
      not from alberta.
Brusco_RF 2y ago
What a lot of commenters cheering this headline might not know is that there is only one single internal road connecting east and west canada which regularly closes. Most commercial routes go through the US. Don't believe me? Route Ottawa to Vancouver in google maps. This move would amount to throwing rocks from a glass house.
- soperj 2y ago
  Trans-Canada regularly closes? That's news to me. The reason google maps goes through the US is that it's significantly shorter. We also don't haul things regularly across the country in the same way they do in the US, we use the trains, and the majority of things would go through ports. If you're on the eastern half of the country (which is the majority of the country) they use the great lakes.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    Trans Canada has a lot of non-dual carriageway segments and single points of failure. In 2016 there was a bridge failure that resulted in large detours: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipigon_River_Bridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipigon_River_Bridge
    - echoangle 2y ago
      I wouldn’t call „it closed once in 2016“ regular closure, that actually seems pretty reliable.
  - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    It's also not actually true there's only one. To get through northern Ontario, sure. But there's also the Yellowhead all the way from Winnipeg to Haida Gwai, and plenty of highways that connect to Hwy 2 from there. Trans-Canada is a highway system, not a single road. It's true that the stretch from Kenora to Sault Ste Marie is a vulnerability. It's tough terrain.
    - 2y ago
FredPret 2y ago
I've seen two apocalyptic North American scenarios in fiction, and have previously dismissed both as ridiculous. 1. In the Fallout universe, the USA annexes Canada 2. In at least two Neal Stephenson novels (Snowcrash and Termination Shock), the USA has collapsed. I've never before thought that either of these would have a semi-realistic path to actually happening.
- malcolmgreaves 2y ago
  And in Cyperpunk 2077, the EU rearms and asserts is power, resulting in the euro becoming the world’s currency and the US being broken into multiple competing city-states and regional governments. Also everything is ruled by corporations. We’re not on the fun timeline :(
  - Trasmatta 2y ago
    Can I at least get some sick augs out of this mess?
- zellyn 2y ago
  In the Handmaid's Tale TV show, the US has turned into a repressive religious state horrifyingly cruel to women, and people will occasionally try to cross the border into Canada to safety.
  - hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
    As a Canadian, this is increasingly becoming my best case scenario. Hopefully we can maintain our independence, and many of the freedoms and judicial process the US is currently destroying, although there are some exceptions our govt drastically needs to address * * the biggest example I expect Americans to bring up is gun control. Canada absolutely needs to revert to a logic and data based restriction approach rather than an emotional appeal over looks or otherwise. Unfortunately while 85% of the country supports some form of gun control, only one party is actively implementing it and doing it in the stupidest way possible. That being said, I expect Americans never to agree with gun control in any form, and that's OK and another reason of the many Canadians do not want to be part of the US. * Canada has mirrored the US in restricting protests and collective bargaining in some cases, and needs to step back and seriously strengthen the laws protecting its people. At the same time, some protestors also need to understand the difference between protesting and terrorizing neighbourhoods...
phkahler 2y ago
Totally off topic, but after reading some comments here I got curious and went to Google and typed "population" and autocomplete offered "of Canada" with an answer of 40.1 Million already there. Of course that's what I was going to type, but but but... I'm in the U.S. so there's no reason to know what country I was going to look for unless Google (or this MS browser) knew I was just reading this in another tab. Really kind of creepy.
- throaway1987 2y ago
  people keep looking up the population of Canada to see where it would rank as a state
  - phkahler 2y ago
    +1 plausible! BTW it's very close to California: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...
    - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
      It makes no sense as a single "state". We have two official languages for a reason, Quebec is Francophone and culturally distinct and very large. Other provinces (e.g. New Brunswick) are fully bilingual. We have three ocean coastlines, and a geographic mass which is the second largest country in the world. How you fit that all into one US "state" is preposterous and in fact that's probably one of the most inflammatory ignorant things about the whole way Trump speaks. Not that we'd ever be "admitted" as a state should we be forced to grovel down to that point. We'd be some sort of occupied territory with no voting rights, but with 100% right for American capital to take our resources freely and dismantle our institutions.
  - vkou 2y ago
    That's the wrong thing for them to be looking up. It would have to be 13 states, with 26 senators. Oh, wait, is that suddenly not so appealing?
buyucu 2y ago
this is a no-brainer right? if you play stupid games, then you win stupid prizes. british columbia has every right to do this.
Suppafly 2y ago
I'm kinda surprised they haven't been doing this all along, or at least something to recover revenue from US folks using their roads to travel between the US but not contributing much to the economy in between.
- bdamm 2y ago
  Presumably they were happy about the gasoline revenues and hotel stops.
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    I wonder if they make enough in taxes off those to offset the road damage done by US drivers. It's easy to overlook some of that stuff if you have generally good relations with another country, but I'm sure they are huge costs that likely aren't offset by the economic increase from US drivers.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
latentcall 2y ago
Guess I’ll be in the trenches and have someone from Ottawa drop a grenade on me from a drone.
wdr1 2y ago
> The government of British Columbia filed legislation Thursday that would permit the province to levy tolls on vehicles between the Lower 48 and Alaska. It was nice of them to exclude Hawaii.
giardini 2y ago
Given the numerous crazy possible pasts, presents, futures and conspiracies spoken of in this conversation alone, should any one of the potential outcomes vented here (they do seem to be ventings, indeed of a gaseous nature) should come true I will be amazed. Reminds me of an old joke... Q. What is time for? "Time is nature's way to keep everything from happening all at once". Attributed to John Archibald Wheeler. Yet reading here, one might conclude that all things bad are occurring as we speak!

172 points by vinnyglennon 2y ago

vkou 2y ago

It's been considered, but it's not going to help much. A tiny percentage of Alaska's goods come through BC. Instead, alternative markets and surcharges for potash, minerals, energy, counter tariffs and bans of American goods, expanding interprovincial trade, bans on government procurement from the US, bans on American propaganda and media should be sufficient. And re-armament. Given that it's clear that America cannot ever again be trusted, (electing Trump once was an accident, twice is actively malicious), and given that it's likely compromised by Russia, it should be considered what it is - a dangerous, unstable, suicidal foreign adversary. A kind of North Korea, but with nuclear weapons.

JoshTriplett 2y ago
> It's been considered, but it's not going to help much. It may not help much in terms of revenue, but it may help with public perception. People spend a lot of time and energy in their car. Think about how much people talk about gas prices as a measure of whatever politicians they think are responsible for them.
guesswho_ 2y ago
[flagged]
JKCalhoun 2y ago
Yeah, I'm not sure it won't be worse than you think. I think about 8% or so of goods to AK go by truck along the Al-Can. I suspect though there is a very good reason for that 8%. You force that 8% on to ship or by air and I suspect whatever that cargo was is going to get a good deal pricier or a good deal late.
kansface 2y ago
North Korea _has_ nuclear weapons.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

yatopifo 2y ago

That makes perfect sense. It puzzles me why supporters of the current US regime think Canada won’t resist the US. Be it a trade war or a military invasion, Canada will make the cost so great that it may eliminate the US from the world arena. Canada has been cornered and has nothing to lose at this point.

a-priori 2y ago
It's incorrect to think of Canada as being "cornered" here nor having "nothing to lose". It's the US that's isolating itself. Canada isn't 'cornered'. It has the entire rest of the world to talk to and make deals with. It has everything to lose by continuing to rely on the US, which is why you're seeing such a hard pivot toward Europe and Asia.
- BobbyJo 2y ago
  I wouldn't color relying on a historical ally that either produces, or is the transit corridor for, most of your food with "everything to lose". The current trade spat is an issue, and Canada should react accordingly, but the reality is that, even with tariffs, the US still represents a very profitable trade partner, especially when they can levy tariffs of their own.
  - watwut 2y ago
    The issue is not limited to tariffs. There is consistent hostile rhetoric against Canada by multiple members of administration. And by hostile I mean threats of annexation, demands that Canada gives USA parts of its land and false accusations. Tariffs are only part of the issue. They seem the be the first USA step meant to weaken Canada economically before USA proceeds to steal from from it.
    - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
      Exactly this. It's interesting watching how Americans are talking about this issue vs Canadians. Even my liberal friends in the US think it's more "Silly" and "Troll" behaviour on Trump's part -- "you're not taking that seriously, are you?" Yes, we're taking it seriously. It wasn't some one-off tweet. He's the official head of state and silence from the rest of the GOP and the US political class generally isn't exactly doing anything to calm tensions. We faced heavy tariff threats under 1.0 and it wasn't anything like this. The reaction here isn't really about trade at all. It's about sovereignty. The US is the only country that has ever invaded us.

kps 2y ago

Should also toll the ‘shortcut’ between Detroit and Buffalo for foreign high-axle-weight vehicles like transport trucks and maybe some electric cars.

tcgv 2y ago
It looks like the longer route adds about 1 hour and 30 minutes. So, truck drivers would compare the toll price, additional gas usage, and the schedule change to determine if paying is worthwhile, thus limiting how much the toll could effectively charge.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
  They also have the cost of maintaining the roads that the truck drivers are using. They might decide that a toll that brings that cost down is still a worthwhile toll even if it doesn't bring in money.
phkahler 2y ago
>> Should also toll the ‘shortcut’ between Detroit and Buffalo for foreign high-axle-weight vehicles like transport trucks and maybe some electric cars. Nah, Canada ships too much trash to Michigan to go after one of those crossings. Yes it's weird that part of the US is used as another first world countries garbage dump. I've never looked in to why this is happens. Maybe we could put a tariff on trash?
- kps 2y ago
  > I've never looked in to why this is happens. Toronto. Low bidder. We're sorry.

andy_ppp 2y ago

I’m surprised all the countries the US is trying to bully aren’t considering moving to the Euro as the reserve currency (even China might go along with this). It would be so damaging for the US they might actually understand they have been benefiting from a win-win situation since the end of the Second World War.

dave4420 2y ago
I suspect many countries would prefer a Chinese reserve currency to a European one, due to past bad experiences of being ruled by Europeans. But even on a purely economic level… does the Eurozone even have a larger economy than China? I can see countries moving away from USD, but I don’t see them coalescing around a single alternative.
- FreebasingLLMs 2y ago
  [dead]
- magneticstain 2y ago
  I would suspect that some countries would definitely go to China due to the more sizable economy. But a large number of others - especially those with more democratic idealogies - would go with the Euro.
- malcolmgreaves 2y ago
  The RMB is a terrible reserve currency since the CCP can just arbitrarily change its value by decree.
  - dave4420 2y ago
    Sure — but if the CCP decided it wanted the benefits of owning a reserve currency, it could change that. Then suddenly it looks more attractive.
- psychlops 2y ago
  China would absolutely not want to have a reserve currency. Their export economy would be destroyed overnight.

sriram_malhar 2y ago

It seems everyone is part of the "Not American Treaty Organization".

gadflyinyoureye 2y ago

Well if Trump is looking for a reason to invade, he’ll have one he can promote. I don’t agree with it it, but he can say, “they’re cutting us off from our people!” Then he’ll invade BC to form a contiguous border to all our territories. Hell based on the representatives going to DC to discuss making Alberta a state, he’ll probably gin up even more support.

hypeatei 2y ago
So, a solution to a problem that he created? Interesting.
- gadflyinyoureye 2y ago
  Yes. That’s what he does.
barbazoo 2y ago
First of all > The bill does not automatically impose fees on vehicles, but it “just gives BC the tools to do so down the road if Trump continues to escalate his threats towards BC and Canada,” according to a statement from the provincial Ministry of Transportation and Transit. Also this > The government of British Columbia filed legislation Thursday that would permit the province to levy tolls on vehicles between the Lower 48 and Alaska. No one is yet doing anything and no one is cutting anyone off.
- gadflyinyoureye 2y ago
  That’s not how Trump will spin this. He’s going to pander to some idea of right to move between territorial holdings. He can whip his base up to request an invasion. There are few republicans that are willing to stand up to Trump. That’s why we have the idiocy of impeachment against judges.
JKCalhoun 2y ago
> Well if Trump is looking for a reason to invade You say that as though this is someone who would require even a modicum of rationale to act.

cynicalsecurity 2y ago

This dynamic isn’t really good. I understand Canada didn’t start it, but I really don’t like these dynamics.

sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
How do you think Canada should react to a neighboring country that not only unilaterally declared a trade war but also continues to threaten to annex them? Appeasing bullies does. not. work.
- kyboren 2y ago
  > How do you think Canada should react? As a friendly porcupine. > Appeasing bullies does. not. work. This isn't a schoolyard bully situation. This is something like an Odysseus vs. Polyphemus situation. It calls for wit and guile, not open aggression and escalation.

kolanos 2y ago

[flagged]

oalders 2y ago
This seems like a reasonable fact check on dairy tarrifs: https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/10/politics/trump-canada-dairy-tariffs-fact-check/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/10/politics/trump-canada-dairy-t...
- kolanos 2y ago
  It seems like a completely misleading "fact check" to me when you actually read the Wikipedia article I linked. > Those high tariffs kick in only after the US has hit a certain Trump-negotiated quantity of tariff-free dairy sales to Canada each year – and as the US dairy industry acknowledges, the US is not hitting its allowed zero-tariff maximum in any category of dairy product. 1. The USMCA was agreed upon in 2020, but it has largely not taken effect yet as ratification is scheduled for 2026. So the "Trump negotiated" claim is false right out of the gate. Any terms Trump negotiated have not even taken effect yet. We're still under the NAFTA terms. 2. These quotas are very low. The new increased quota scheduled for 2026 is 3.6%. What does this mean? It means for dairy products, the U.S. can only export as much dairy product into Canada until it reaches 3.6% of Canada's total dairy market share. After that, you see 160-300% tariffs applied to those dairy products. 3. The claim that the U.S. is not hitting its dairy tariff maximum is true, but again, this is misleading. The reason for this is that Canada is granting such a small portion of their dairy market to the U.S. (3.6%) that it isn't worthwhile for many U.S. dairy producers to even bother. This is by design. If you can't compete with the other 96.4% of the market without seeing your goods being slapped with up to 300% tariffs, why would you? > In 2015, the three top dairy imports into Canada were specialty cheeses, milk protein concentrates (MPCs) and whey products. The largest suppliers into Canada were the United States, New Zealand, France and Italy. That should tell you something? Dairy producers are only exporting specialized dairy products into Canada, including non U.S. ones. 4. The U.S. isn't the only country with a problem with Canada's tariffs. [0] > Ten dairy industry organisations, including the Dairy Companies Association of New Zealand (DCANZ) and other dairy industry leaders from the US, EU, Argentina, Australia, and Mexico, co-signed a letter to request that their governments intervene in ending Canada's "new and harmful" 'Special Milk Class 7' mechanism by potentially entering a complaint through the WTO's Dispute Settlement System (DSS), a process which could take several years to conclude. This is just one of many disputes Canada's trading partners have had regarding Canada's protectionist tariff policies. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_and_poultry_supply_management_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_and_poultry_supply_manag...

josefritzishere 2y ago

[flagged]

mindslight 2y ago

How small-minded Trumpism is, just frustrated lashing out at things they refuse to understand. Canada has been so close to the US we would lovingly joke about it being "the 51st state". Canada's cities are all pressed up against the US border precisely because it's so tightly economically integrated with the US. We share the world's longest undefended "border" for a reason. The small minded neofascists think that someone being part of their sphere of influence must mean they can shit on them, tell them it's caviar, and they'll lap it up and come back for more. It's like they can't see that Canada (along with most of the rest of the world) was already strongly aligned with the US, in favor of some stupid imagined written on paper "ownership" direct-command relationship. They really can't get past the two bits in front of them and see larger constructive situations, at all. (I'm of course talking about all the useful idiots cheering this on, and enabling it by not impeaching. The Manchurian Candidate himself is just following the directions of Russia/China supplied by his handlers directly into his cancerous ego.)

mooxie 2y ago
They are consistently on the wrong side of Chesterton's fence. Many of them were completely blind to politics until 2016 and have suddenly entered the chat with no context or background on what they're talking about. They assume, ignorantly, that everything that they can't immediately understand is a needless barrier erected for no reason and without context. This is a very intentional worldview organized, funded, and distributed by - shocker! - powerful people who find themselves constrained by the law.
- mindslight 2y ago
  It's especially galling to me. I'm libertarian. If you communicated the Trump 2024 platform back in time to me in 2012, I'd be stoked that many of these issues were finally being talked about. I wanted to be having honest conversations about decentralizing federal power to the states, reducing monetary inflation and no longer taking being the world reserve currency for granted, dismantling the DEI-HR industrial complex, etc. But cheering to demolish the plane while you're still flying on it is just a special kind of stupid. So really, it's the age-old political dynamic where frustrations with the current system are used as fuel for the next round of destruction, looting, and centralizing of power. It's why the Trump appointees are a menagerie of malcontents. Each has achieved popularity from criticizing the status quo on their own pet topic, but without constructive solutions. And now they don't need to actually agree on anything apart from the need to butcher our institutions.

barbazoo 2y ago

> The bill does not automatically impose fees on vehicles, but it “just gives BC the tools to do so down the road if Trump continues to escalate his threats towards BC and Canada,” according to a statement from the provincial Ministry of Transportation and Transit.

hypeatei 2y ago

I don't understand any of the justifications for a trade war with Canada. IIRC, Trump was fudging numbers by only including the "goods" part of "goods & services" so the deficit looked worse than it actually was (assuming a deficit is even bad in the first place) It's also bewildering that Trump literally negotiated a trade deal in his first term with Mexico and Canada but is now saying we're getting screwed? Is this the "art of the deal" he always talks about?

mig39 2y ago
Canada's market is 10% of the USA. Of course there's going to be an imbalance in trade. Trump doesn't understand this, and he thinks that it means that Canada (the government) is literally ripping off the USA. Just like he doesn't understand that tariffs are paid by the buyer, not the government of the seller. Finally, the current trade treaty between Canada-USA-Mexico was negotiated by Trump himself, and it replaced NAFTA. When he says it's a bad deal, why is nobody pointing out that he negotiated it? And famously said it was the best trade deal in history.
- busyant 2y ago
  > When he says it's a bad deal, why is nobody pointing out that he negotiated it? And famously said it was the best trade deal in history. Every sane person is pointing it out. But the asymmetry of lies and indifference to those lies by a large swathe of the electorate is terrifying. I have no idea how to fight this.
  - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    My take is that part of this is the fact that the US far right took an interest in Canada after the "trucker" convoy protest here during COVID. Multiple Fox segments on what a terrible "communist" place Canada is. And so it's become a brainworm in Trump's head, among a bunch of others. And a useful demagogic point to distract or rile up his base with. (Nevermind that DHS would have shot some of those protesters on site if the same kind of protests had occurred on the US side of the border. There's a reason the convoy was mobilized towards Ottawa and not to Washington, even though the vaccine requirements for truckers were actually a Biden regime initiative.) That and a generally liberal government holding power directly on your border, in the same linguistic/cultural/economic mileux has potential domestic consequences / threat.

rgrieselhuber 2y ago

Alaska is USA

drpossum 2y ago
Thank you for clarifying.
sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
You may not be aware, but Alaska is not part of the blob of 48 contiguous states. If you want to get from the main body of the US to Alaska over land, you'll have to cross Canadian territory.
- quesera 2y ago
  HN title says "... road access from USA to Alaska". "Contiguous USA to Alaska" would be fine, but ~"USA to USA" is poorly-worded. Not confusing, mind you. Just poorly-worded! If you spend any time living in Hawaii or Alaska, and then move to the mainland, you will receive a shockingly high frequency of questions about what it's like to move to the US. GP might have similar experiences. For non-US readers, or for the geopolitically-unaware, Hawaii and Alaska became US territories in the late 1800s, but didn't become states until 1959.
- rgrieselhuber 2y ago
  And Alaska is still in the USA, so my critique of the title stands. If it had said 48 contiguous states it would have been accurate.
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
    The context made it perfectly clear without additional words.
    - rgrieselhuber 2y ago
      This is HN, the whole point of this site is to comment on every little detail on anything we see.

nullorempty 2y ago

[flagged]

drpossum 2y ago
[flagged]
- DaSHacka 2y ago
  > In Comments > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." > Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. > Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes. > Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. From: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
adamgordonbell 2y ago
You are calling for the invasion of your own country? Surely you realize that is a very fringe view.
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  There is such an echo chamber among the Albertan far right that they fail to see exactly what a fringe community they are. Unfortunately they have deep pockets because of funding from the US.
  - nullorempty 2y ago
    not from alberta.

Brusco_RF 2y ago

What a lot of commenters cheering this headline might not know is that there is only one single internal road connecting east and west canada which regularly closes. Most commercial routes go through the US. Don't believe me? Route Ottawa to Vancouver in google maps. This move would amount to throwing rocks from a glass house.

soperj 2y ago
Trans-Canada regularly closes? That's news to me. The reason google maps goes through the US is that it's significantly shorter. We also don't haul things regularly across the country in the same way they do in the US, we use the trains, and the majority of things would go through ports. If you're on the eastern half of the country (which is the majority of the country) they use the great lakes.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  Trans Canada has a lot of non-dual carriageway segments and single points of failure. In 2016 there was a bridge failure that resulted in large detours: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipigon_River_Bridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipigon_River_Bridge
  - echoangle 2y ago
    I wouldn’t call „it closed once in 2016“ regular closure, that actually seems pretty reliable.
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  It's also not actually true there's only one. To get through northern Ontario, sure. But there's also the Yellowhead all the way from Winnipeg to Haida Gwai, and plenty of highways that connect to Hwy 2 from there. Trans-Canada is a highway system, not a single road. It's true that the stretch from Kenora to Sault Ste Marie is a vulnerability. It's tough terrain.
  - 2y ago

FredPret 2y ago

I've seen two apocalyptic North American scenarios in fiction, and have previously dismissed both as ridiculous. 1. In the Fallout universe, the USA annexes Canada 2. In at least two Neal Stephenson novels (Snowcrash and Termination Shock), the USA has collapsed. I've never before thought that either of these would have a semi-realistic path to actually happening.

malcolmgreaves 2y ago
And in Cyperpunk 2077, the EU rearms and asserts is power, resulting in the euro becoming the world’s currency and the US being broken into multiple competing city-states and regional governments. Also everything is ruled by corporations. We’re not on the fun timeline :(
- Trasmatta 2y ago
  Can I at least get some sick augs out of this mess?
zellyn 2y ago
In the Handmaid's Tale TV show, the US has turned into a repressive religious state horrifyingly cruel to women, and people will occasionally try to cross the border into Canada to safety.
- hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
  As a Canadian, this is increasingly becoming my best case scenario. Hopefully we can maintain our independence, and many of the freedoms and judicial process the US is currently destroying, although there are some exceptions our govt drastically needs to address * * the biggest example I expect Americans to bring up is gun control. Canada absolutely needs to revert to a logic and data based restriction approach rather than an emotional appeal over looks or otherwise. Unfortunately while 85% of the country supports some form of gun control, only one party is actively implementing it and doing it in the stupidest way possible. That being said, I expect Americans never to agree with gun control in any form, and that's OK and another reason of the many Canadians do not want to be part of the US. * Canada has mirrored the US in restricting protests and collective bargaining in some cases, and needs to step back and seriously strengthen the laws protecting its people. At the same time, some protestors also need to understand the difference between protesting and terrorizing neighbourhoods...

phkahler 2y ago

Totally off topic, but after reading some comments here I got curious and went to Google and typed "population" and autocomplete offered "of Canada" with an answer of 40.1 Million already there. Of course that's what I was going to type, but but but... I'm in the U.S. so there's no reason to know what country I was going to look for unless Google (or this MS browser) knew I was just reading this in another tab. Really kind of creepy.

throaway1987 2y ago
people keep looking up the population of Canada to see where it would rank as a state
- phkahler 2y ago
  +1 plausible! BTW it's very close to California: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...
  - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    It makes no sense as a single "state". We have two official languages for a reason, Quebec is Francophone and culturally distinct and very large. Other provinces (e.g. New Brunswick) are fully bilingual. We have three ocean coastlines, and a geographic mass which is the second largest country in the world. How you fit that all into one US "state" is preposterous and in fact that's probably one of the most inflammatory ignorant things about the whole way Trump speaks. Not that we'd ever be "admitted" as a state should we be forced to grovel down to that point. We'd be some sort of occupied territory with no voting rights, but with 100% right for American capital to take our resources freely and dismantle our institutions.
- vkou 2y ago
  That's the wrong thing for them to be looking up. It would have to be 13 states, with 26 senators. Oh, wait, is that suddenly not so appealing?

buyucu 2y ago

this is a no-brainer right? if you play stupid games, then you win stupid prizes. british columbia has every right to do this.

Suppafly 2y ago

I'm kinda surprised they haven't been doing this all along, or at least something to recover revenue from US folks using their roads to travel between the US but not contributing much to the economy in between.

bdamm 2y ago
Presumably they were happy about the gasoline revenues and hotel stops.
- Suppafly 2y ago
  I wonder if they make enough in taxes off those to offset the road damage done by US drivers. It's easy to overlook some of that stuff if you have generally good relations with another country, but I'm sure they are huge costs that likely aren't offset by the economic increase from US drivers.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

latentcall 2y ago

Guess I’ll be in the trenches and have someone from Ottawa drop a grenade on me from a drone.

wdr1 2y ago

> The government of British Columbia filed legislation Thursday that would permit the province to levy tolls on vehicles between the Lower 48 and Alaska. It was nice of them to exclude Hawaii.

giardini 2y ago

Given the numerous crazy possible pasts, presents, futures and conspiracies spoken of in this conversation alone, should any one of the potential outcomes vented here (they do seem to be ventings, indeed of a gaseous nature) should come true I will be amazed. Reminds me of an old joke... Q. What is time for? "Time is nature's way to keep everything from happening all at once". Attributed to John Archibald Wheeler. Yet reading here, one might conclude that all things bad are occurring as we speak!